No Post, No Video, No Beeps, and verified everything DOES work

theomega76 · Feb 3, 2013

Okay this so far is the 5th week of this problem :fou:

, first thing is please forgive any attitude or rudeness you may pick up in this post as i am extremely extremely extremely pissed and depressed. Alright heres what happened, i bought a bunch of stuff for a new gaming computer (it was for my brother for christmas).

So all the stuff finally gets here a lil after xmas but nonetheless still gets here, to prevent a unnecessary reply here is everything i bought, (all though the HDD, the case, mouse, etc dont matter in this situation):

4x4gb G-Skill DDR3 ram, 1600 mhz
(http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231315)

Gigabyte Radeon 7950 3gb GPU
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125414

AMD fx-6200 Six Core 3.8 ghz CPU
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819106010

MSI 990fxa-gd65v2 Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130677

Rosewill Bronze Series 1000 watt PSU
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182188

the other stuff left is not relevant but you should have the general overview of the build now.
So i get everything and i start to put it together (and yes i HAVE built quite a few computers before so i know what im doing). After i put everything together and go to turn it on i have no video output hmm.... Since this MOBO retardedly doesn't have an option for on board video (which is the stupidest decision MOBO manuf. have ever made) i am stuck eliminating the possibilities one by one.

So painstakingly after trying everything in here http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/261145-31-perform-steps-posting-post-boot-video-problems, i was unfortunately left with the assumption that it was the MOBO, so i sent it back RMA. (three weeks later, despite the fact i live 2 states (in WA) above MSI (CA)) So i finnaly get a diff MOBO, i put everything back in and HOLY SH*T!! NOTHING!!!

So i am super pissed at this point, so to verify once again that everything works:
First thing is that when i turn it on with any config. all the fans spin, and lights come on (it has power)...
I test out the 7950 in my old computer and connect the monitor and bam i get display, so it aint the GPU...
I test my old video card 9800 gtx+ on the new build and bam i get display...
I manually check every single lead on the PSU to make sure it is providing correct voltage, it is.....
I Start the new build with no GPU and it produces a beep, okay so it does know when there is or isnt a GPU....
I Start the new build with no RAM and it produces a beep, it knows when there is ram or not.....
I try starting it with 1 stick and try it in each slot, and do that with all 4 sticks, makes no diff, no display....
When i started the new build with my old GPU, it did post, so i know the cpu is good.....
I tried taking the mobo out of the case and starting it with the bare min. (cpu, hs, ram, GPU), nothing
I tried clearing the cmos, and still nothing....
I made sure the 8 pin connector for the CPU WAS plugged in (and it is providing power)...
I made sure the 2 6 pin GPU power connectors were plugged in, and this mobo also has an additional 6 pin connector on the MOBO itself for i guess more power to the video card, i tried it with it plugged in and without it plugged in and nothing on both situations....

So at this point i have verified that everything works, and the system will actually start up if i use my old GPU in the new build, but with the new GPU (which has been verified working) in the new build, nothing....

I thought there might be compatibility issues with some of the stuff but the CPU is listed as supported on MSI's website, the Ram is listed as compatible for amd platforms on G-skill's site.
I am 99% sure that the PSU is providing efficient power plus if the 2 6pin connectors arent enough the additional connector on the MOBO can provide more power (if necessary)
I am pretty sure that the card being pci-e 3.0 doesnt matter (also due to the fact that there is only like 1 pci-e 3.0 mobo on the market right now) because it is backwards compatible with pci-e 2.0.
The Monitor is new and also verified working, the dvi cable is brand new.
I am assuming that the GPU being a gigabyte doesnt matter, the chipset on the GPU is what matters, i am pretty sure that this mobo can run this gpu based on the fact my old mobo was able to boot with the new GPU

I am just so god damn confused at this point, i have verified everything works but when the 7950 is in the new build nothing. The mobo supports x86 and x64.
I really am not sure what is left to try i mean everything works but that GPU in that build gives no display, and really for the most part i built the whole system just to accomadate a new GPU, so running the new build with an older GPU would really defeat the ENTIRE purpose of the build in the first place.

Can someone please help me on this i am at the point where i am ready to just either smash it with a hammer or lay down on some train tracks,

it doesnt make sense to me at all..

Z1NONLY · Feb 3, 2013

If you are using the same cable for both old an new GPU tests....(Because even brand new cables can sometimes not work)

*Do this at your own risk*

I would be tempted to park your old rig and new rig next to each other, power the GPU using your old rig's PSU, but leave the GPU plugged into the new rig's motherboard.

I don't know if you could cause a rift in the space-time continuum or if the non-synchronized timing of PCIE slot power and GPU power connector power could damage components, but after all you have tried, it's time to think out of the box.

We know the slot from your new rig works, and the PSU on your old rig can handle powering the new GPU, so.....

I would power up the old PSU first, so there will be more likely to be "detected" when you start up the new rig.

I have never tried this, but I would take the risk with my own equipment, just to get a definitive answer.

*Do this at your own risk*

unksol · Feb 3, 2013

I really would NOT recommend this ^. Theoretically yes ok, but why when you can just swap the PSUs?

And why on earth a "1000W" PSU? Especially one of the really outdated multi rail (ie scam) ones from rosewill.... I had that PSU 3 years ago before I knew better. Look close at the label. 900W(52A) on the 12V. 52A * 12V = 640W. And believe me. It blew out at 650W...

You could very well be overloading one of the rails, they are probably labeled falsely too

Outlander_04 · Feb 3, 2013

Use the old card to check your BIOS set up . Pci-e frequencies to auto , that kind of stuff

Consider a BIOS flash

Try an adapter from a molex to the pci-e power connector . Dont use the two psu's .

But what I think is wrong is that the 2D subsystem in your graphics card is faulty . All cards have that so they can display before a driver is installed . Your card may have worked in the old PC because there was a driver available to load

theomega76 · Feb 3, 2013

The PSU is modular, and because the GPU alone needs a 500w psu MINIMUM. and i have multiple hard drives, and CPU that also takes 125w, 6 fans, multiple DVD drives, so yeah i just wanted to play it safe. And based on the 100's of positive reviews on that PSU i would say it is pretty good. Also i have already verified that the new PSU works and is supplying the proper voltage to each and every rail, i have also verified that the new GPU works. I have also verified that the pci-e slot on the new mobo works.
I really need someones help that knows what to do when you think you have done anything, i have faith that someone on hear has the answer

Z1NONLY · Feb 3, 2013

theomega76 :

Static, no-load voltage is easy.

Voltage, under the load presented by the card is another matter.

If you don't want to franken-rig it, just take the time to move the PSU out of your old rig into the new one. That will be more time consuming, but "safe".

maxalge · Feb 3, 2013

theomega76 :

A 7950 requires 500w minimum WITH 30a or greater on the +12v.

The 9800 needs about 26a, which is why it works.

That crapwell can't handle the 7950, not enough juice to power it I imagine.

You said the 7950 works with your old power supply, why not use that in the new build?

unksol · Feb 3, 2013

theomega76 :

That GPU uses 225W MAX. 500W is the minimum RECOMMENDED for the ENTIRE system. I'd personally go with a quality 650W with a single high amp rail. 850-900W for crossfire with TWO 7950s.

And VOLTAGE means NOTHING. It has to be able to supply the CURRANT. Voltage is easy when there is no load. We already know its falsely labeled. It could also have a faulty currant limiter on one of the rails.

Newegg reviews mean nothing because no one complains till it blows when they load it years later. Or like you buy it without knowing better and thinking they need 1000W and its cheap.

That's not an insult. PSUs are tricky and makers flat out lie. But you're over paying for a really bad 650W design.

Swap PSUs and see. If you get it split across the rails right it really should work, but your getting majorly ripped off if you keep it and newegg should take it back. rosewill makes some good PSUs but that ones junk

theomega76 · Feb 3, 2013

Okay i am not to big of a man to admit when im wrong i went back to the newegg and looked at the amperage supplied to the 12v leads and i see some are 30a and some are 20a.

Here is where i am kinda confused, how do i know which amperage is being supplied to the 6 pin gpu leads the 20a or the 30a???

p.s
here is my old PSU that successfully booted it up
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3276567

now with that i see that the 12v rail is listed at 45a which ya know would explain why it worked HOWEVER, why does it list only 1 12v rail amperage rating and the rosewill has like 4?

Also where i am kinda lost, is that the 2 leads running directly to GPU give it power, BUT if u noticed in my original post i mentioned that this MOBO specifically came with an additional connector on the board itself that is dedicated for more(?) power i guess for a GPU if needed.
So i understand what you are saying about the amperage being supplied and that the GPU needs more but why would three 6 pin rails all powering the video card be enough???
Also i feel like cutting my throat with a dull sushi blade for not checking the amperage on it, because unless ya'll come up with something else i am thinking thats what it may be.
sigh.... i hate my life

theomega76 · Feb 3, 2013

Okay quick note, i was looking at the amps on each 12v rail, and saw that some are 20a some are 30a, but if you look through the pics of it here,
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182188

it shows the 12v rails there amperage and what each 12v rail essentially is, like what cable it is.
■First is 12v1 (20a) is for the 24 pin mobo connector
■next is 12v2 (20a) this is for the Pci-e 6 pin and 6+2 connectors (FIXED)
■next is 12v3 (30a) this is for the CPU 4+4........, Pci-e 6pin and 6+2 (Modular 1)
■last is 12v4 (30a) this is for the CPU 8 pin......., Pci-e 6pin and 6+2 (Modular 2)

Okay but here is where i am confused, i wish i could show you guys a pic, anyways.
The "12v2 (20a)" IS NOT being used for the GPU, as there is only 1 6pin connector and the GPU requires 2. So what that is being used for is to plug into the additional slot on the mobo that is for more GPU power (pwrconn1). Okay lemme do it like this...

12v1 (20a) - mobo and it is in use

12v2 (20a) - there is only ONE 6 pin connector, so it cant be used for GPU
(so keep in mind this eliminates the possibility of the GPU getting the 20a rail)

12v3 (30a) - the cpu 4+4 pin is being used, but it IS NOT modular its fixed. Im not sure if the pic was just referring to the pci-e's being modular, but the cpu is fixed.

12v4 (30a) - i have no clue what the CPU 8 pin is, cuz i only see a 4+4, but this also says that it can be allocated to the pci-e 6 pin cables if you use the modular ones.

So here is my thought, please gimme some feedback on what you think. Obviously the 20a rails arent available for the GPU anyways, so you would kinda have to use the modular cables provided to hook it up....

Okay so if you look at the pic with the descriptions of the power to each rail, you'll see that the cpu power connector is one the same rail as the "Modular" pci-e cables. and on the psu you have for the modular connections either the 6 pin pci-e or the 6+2 pin pci-e.

(I will try to write this clearly now, cuz i know im throwin around alot of numbers)
I am just pondering the thought that perhaps the "6pin" (NOT 6+2) modular cables are on the same rail as the cpu 4+4 and cant get enough power.

Is it possible to switch the 6pin pci-e cables over to the 6+2 cables, thus the cables would be plugged into the 6+2 slot on the psu.
However, only plug in the 6 pin portion of the 6+2 cable into the GPU itself???

Can u guys please give me you feedback i know i just threw alot at you but does any of it make sense?

Z1NONLY · Feb 3, 2013

theomega76 :

This is actually what I am doing right now. (Using only the "6" portion of "6+2" connectors for my GPU's)

theomega76 · Feb 4, 2013

Okay, so here is where i am at....

Everything i wondered about above i tried.
I tried putting the old psu unit in the new build and still nothing, i got a response when i put the old video card in with the new build, but i am assuming thats because it takes less power.

i tried using the pci-e 8 pin with the new video card and that still didnt work i tried using the 8 pin cpu power connector and the 4+4 power connector both nothing...

I tried every variation of the two options above (6pin for the GPU and 4+4 for cpu, 8pin for GPU and 4+4 with cpu, etc....) and still nothing

This is my thought process, the four 12v rails have ratings of 20a, 20a, 30a, and 30a. Somehow together they have an availble power of 52a, dont know how that exactly adds up but whatever. So my thoughts were such that maybe the GPU and the CPU were pulling off the same 12v rail and there simply wasnt enough power.
Which is why i tried the different combos of pci-e cables to the GPU and diff. cables to the CPU hoping that maybe if the GPU was pulling off one 12v rail and the CPU was pulling off a diff 12v rail there would be efficient power.
HOWEVER due to the fact i tried literally every single possible combination of connections to the CPU and GPU and never got a response obviously that isnt the case.
When i had the old gpu in there i got it to post and go to the bios and what not, which actually couldnt have been any less helpful due to the fact there wasnt a single option or configuration that had a single thing to do with the GPU in any way AT ALL.

So i am kinda left thinking that when specifically paired together the 7950, and the fx-6200 CPU it just needs an UNIMAGINABLE amount of amps. Granted it is very hard to believe that a 1000 watt psu isnt enough even if it only supplies 52a..

But i have been wrong before is it possible that the amperage required by the CPU + the GPU + and the MOBO itself is just actually more than 52a? i mean does that sound like it could be it? i'm really needed outside help right now cuz i am at the absolute end of my rope :fou:

Outlander_04 · Feb 4, 2013

theomega76 :

Think of a swear word or two that indicate I have no respect for what you have just written .
Hold that thought for about 10 seconds .

This entire computer will run well on a 500 watt power supply .

As for the OP .. earlier I posted about the structure of a graphics processor .
Have you even bothered to read what I wrote?

theomega76 · Feb 4, 2013

Outlander_04 :

i did, and the entire computer obviously wont run well on a 500 watt psu because my old psu is 750 watts and that couldnt get it to boot either. And if you would have read my last post i said there wasnt a single thing in the bios that had to do with the GPU at all in any single way, not even a little bit.

I dont mean to be rude, but i am jsut so frustrated at this point i have tried everything. Oh also i calculated the amperage needed to run it, the GPU needs 25a, and the cpu needs about 10.4

And the total available amperage is 52a, so that is why i am not understanding why it doesnt work???????

what left can i try?

shortstuff_mt · Feb 4, 2013

What's left to try is ditch that POS Rosewill PSU and pick up a quality unit from a reputable company like Corsair, Seasonic, Antec, PC Power & Cooling, etc... Outlander_04 is correct, the system would run on a QUALITY 500W PSU with the correct amperage on the 12v rail. I suggest something like this if you want to stick with modular:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139012&Tpk=hx650

Based on your tone toward people trying to help you, I'm sure you will ignore this advice, but Rosewill is NOT a reputable company and that PSU will never correctly power your system. A quality PSU is the most important component in a stable, long-lived system.

Z1NONLY · Feb 4, 2013

OP, have you tried moving your other PSU into the suspect rig?

I thought I read that you tried that, and still have the same exact issues.

I just want to be clear on this.

The rig you are having trouble with has now had two different PSU's and still has the same symptoms?

theomega76 · Feb 4, 2013

Damn!! i thought rosewill was an okay company

well i guess i learned something today.

Also, yes i did try my other psu in the new build, the old psu is a 750w ultra, with a single 12v rail that has 45a total to the 12v rail, BUT is also only rated at 78% proficiency.

i was trying to figure out the actual math here and this is where i really need advice from someone who knows more about this than me.

The 1000watt is rated at 82%-87% proficiency, okay.
It has 4 12v rails that are available: 12v1 = 20a, 12v2 = 20a, 12v3 = 30a, 12v4 = 30a with a total of 52a available
12v1 --> for the 24 pin mobo
12v2 --> for the fixed pci-e 6 & 6+2 pin
12v3 --> the cpu 4+4 pin AND the modular pci-e 6 pin and 6+2 pin
12v4 --> the cpu 8 pin AND the modular pci-e 6 pin and 6+2 pin

Now i am wondering a few things.....
1.) Since the modular pci-e 6 pin and 6+2 pin are listed as being on BOTH the 12v3 and 12v4 does that mean that regardless of which you use (6 pin or 6+2 pin) it will pull on both of the rails when it runs?

2.) I thought that if i were to use the cpu 4+4 and pcie 6pin or cpu 4+4 and pcie 8pin that perhaps it would pull on diff rails,
i also tried the actual cpu 8pin w/the 6pin and the 8 pin thinking again maybe it would pull power from diff rails, nothing.

3.) WOAH!!! i just check the power requirements for my old card and this card @ http://forum-en.msi.com/faq/article/printer/power-requirements-for-graphics-cards and something really interesting.....
If you look, it will show that the 7950 requires a minimum of 500w and a mere 25 amps okay....

MY OLD CARD... the 9800gtx+ requires a minimum of 500w and 32 AMPS!!!!
:fou:

WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!

thinking about that now this all makes even less sense....
52 total available amps from the psu
-10.4 for the cpu if it is at max load
-25 for the gpu
_______________
that means there should be an EXTRA 16.6 free amps (not counting hdd, fans, etc....)

the 9800 gtx+ requires the same watts BUT MORE AMPS TO RUN!!!
my head is literally about to explode i am so confused rite now....

now i know that the mobo can support that gpu even though the gpu is pci-e 3.0, plus the 7950 booted up on my old build which is a msi 880fx chipset.

When you put 2 and 2 together it seems like old build + new gpu = running (with both psu)
new build + old gpu = running (with both psu)

what i can ONLY come to is that the cpu and the gpu (the new ones) together need to much power...
But now just finding that the 9800gtx+ needs more amps to run BUT still runs fine, i am lost as hell

this is the last thing I can think of before im out of ideas and will be totally relying on you guys.....
--------> If the pci-e 6pin/6+2 pin run of the 12v3 and 12v4 regardless of which one you use....
Is it possible that *hypothetically* since the GPU is pulling on both 30a rails despite the cpu connector you use (4+4 or 8) there wont be enough power (although if u were pulling on both 30a for the gpu it seems like it would split it over the two)

perhaps i am just the first human being to ever experience this particular problem and i unfortunately discovered a rare incompatibility issue between a specific assortment of parts...

sigh... i dont know what to do anymore guys help me out

Z1NONLY · Feb 5, 2013

If you moved the old PSU to the new rig and got the same results, the PSU's are now much lower on the suspect list.

There may some strange compatibility issue between the new motherboard and GPU, although I admittedly can't think of what it may be.

At this point I would probably return the GPU for an nvida equivalent of the 7950 or another 7950 from a different manufacturer.

It's possible that there is some sort of strange failure that an RMA would fix, but changing to nvidia would take the "quirky comparability" off the table. A different brand 7950 would do the same thing, to a lesser degree though.

theomega76 · Feb 5, 2013

Z1NONLY :

i am not that fond on nvidia because they charge WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYY to much for the performance you end up getting exactly like *** intel. You pay 1/2 the price for ATI and get as much (and usually more) performance.

However, i am just BAFFLED that the 9800 gtx+ requires more power to run (amp wise), and it boots fine when i put it the new build, paired with the new psu or the old psu currently running it.
I can only think that perhaps there is a bios issue maybe, but when i went to MSI website and went to the BIOS downloads and i didnt see a single thing related the GPU or even related to the pci-e slots at all.
Plus out of curiosity i left the old GPU in it just to actually get to the bios and see if there was something that needed to be tweaked and no joke.....
There wasnt A SINGLE option relating to the video card in anyway at all, in all of the bios WTF!
i am just lost right now, and my 30 rma period is past. All i can think of is to maybe call MSI, or Gigabyte, because im ******* confused as hell???!?!?!?!? And i dont want to just forget about this, i mean i pay over 1000$ for a new computer, im not gonna ******* let it sit and become out of date :fou:

I need some third party advice right now, desperately

theomega76 · Feb 6, 2013

okay guys im gonna try calling msi and gigabyte today, and i'll report back what they say later...

Also please dont close this thread until i get it working, as i would like to post what was causing the problem, thanks guys

Mnexus · Feb 7, 2013

A. Did you actually update the Bios?

B. Did you try the vid cable form the old computer in the new build?.

"The mind is like a parachute , it onl;y works when it is open"

Mnexus · Feb 7, 2013

Also get the LATEST drivers for that new gpu installed in the new system and try the molex adaptor Like Outlander suggested. The most IMPORTANT step in LOGICAL troubleshooting is ELEMINATING the "PRETTY SURES".

"The mind is like a parachute, it only works when it is open."

Mnexus · Feb 7, 2013

theomega76 :

Ok wattage equals current times voltage. WHAT are the required WATTAGES for each of your components and what is the wattage available on each of your rails? IS it possible you have a 1000 watt system that cant source what is needed due to its design? Use the manufacturers specs they should tell you the voltage and current needed. your cpu needs 125 watts and your vid card needs 500, How many fans are you running? How many dvd drives? any other lights or power using devices connected to that power supply?

"The mind is like a parachute it only works when it is open"

Mnexus · Feb 7, 2013

Lookin gat the specs of that power supply I see this
Output
+3.3V@28A,

+5V@30A,

+12V1@20A,

+12V2@20A,

+12V3@30A,

+12V4@30A,

-12V@0.8A,

+5VSB@3.0A

so if you take that 12 v x 30 amp bus that equals 360 watts... Your GPU requires a minimum of 500 watts... think we found your issue?

"The mind is like a parachute it only works when it is open"

Mnexus · Feb 7, 2013

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153106
that is an 850 watt single rail supply as an example.

Output
+3.3V@25A, +5V@25A, +12V@69A, -12V@0.6A, +5VSB@3.0A

12v x 69A equals 828 watts... You aren't getting enough juice for starters... This power supply for example would have enough for your new build but NOT is you are using a pair of those cards in SLI mode. So yes it is a 1000 WATT power supply but by using 4 rails it isn't giving you enough juice off of a single rail.

"The mind is like a parachute it only works when it is open"

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