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Olympus 8 Megapixel Camedia C-8080 ZLR

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Anonymous
November 18, 2004 9:41:35 PM
November 22, 2004 5:22:39 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.zlr (More info?)

"MTBike1970" <NOSPAMmtbike1970@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:WYydnerScdFxfALcRVn-1A@rogers.com...
> Me ? .... I'm still looking for a new ZLR with a good LCD...
> ....M

E-20, great lens, TTL viewing + live LCD preview, excellent build quality,
same size sensor as the current 8mp crop - but lower noise due to fewer
pixels, loads about at good prices - still knocks the pants off the 'toy'
cameras like the Z series, Dimages, etc.
Anonymous
November 22, 2004 12:00:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.zlr (More info?)

Michael wrote:
> "MTBike1970" <NOSPAMmtbike1970@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
> news:WYydnerScdFxfALcRVn-1A@rogers.com...
>> Me ? .... I'm still looking for a new ZLR with a good LCD...
>> ....M
>
> E-20, great lens, TTL viewing + live LCD preview, excellent build
> quality, same size sensor as the current 8mp crop - but lower noise
> due to fewer pixels, loads about at good prices - still knocks the
> pants off the 'toy' cameras like the Z series, Dimages, etc.

3 years old and three times the weight of anything I'd want to carry! Can
you still buy SmartMedia cards?

David
November 22, 2004 12:28:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.zlr (More info?)

"David J Taylor" <david-taylor@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:30do59F2tt1ogU1@uni-berlin.de...
> Michael wrote:
>> "MTBike1970" <NOSPAMmtbike1970@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
>> news:WYydnerScdFxfALcRVn-1A@rogers.com...
>>> Me ? .... I'm still looking for a new ZLR with a good LCD...
>>> ....M
>>
>> E-20, great lens, TTL viewing + live LCD preview, excellent build
>> quality, same size sensor as the current 8mp crop - but lower noise
>> due to fewer pixels, loads about at good prices - still knocks the
>> pants off the 'toy' cameras like the Z series, Dimages, etc.

>
> 3 years old and three times the weight of anything I'd want to carry! <<


Well, yes, Plastic can be Fantastic, and is the industry's material of
choice for their toy cameras.

If, however, you prefer a solid chunk of optically precise
electro-mechanical engineering, it just has to be encased in metal.

Sorry to hear of your incapacity, perhaps you could use some sort of small
trolley to allow you to move a real camera from place to place? - is it your
wrists?....

...

Can
> you still buy SmartMedia cards?<

Dunno - but since the E-20 takes Compct Flash/Microdrive, why lose any sleep
over the question
November 22, 2004 12:28:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.zlr (More info?)

In article <30dpteF2shrhbU1@uni-berlin.de>, nospam@nochance.com says...
>
> "David J Taylor" <david-taylor@invalid.com> wrote in message
> news:30do59F2tt1ogU1@uni-berlin.de...
> > Michael wrote:
> >> "MTBike1970" <NOSPAMmtbike1970@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
> >> news:WYydnerScdFxfALcRVn-1A@rogers.com...
> >>> Me ? .... I'm still looking for a new ZLR with a good LCD...
> >>> ....M
> >>
> >> E-20, great lens, TTL viewing + live LCD preview, excellent build
> >> quality, same size sensor as the current 8mp crop - but lower noise
> >> due to fewer pixels, loads about at good prices - still knocks the
> >> pants off the 'toy' cameras like the Z series, Dimages, etc.
>
> >
> > 3 years old and three times the weight of anything I'd want to carry! <<
>
>
> Well, yes, Plastic can be Fantastic, and is the industry's material of
> choice for their toy cameras.
>
> If, however, you prefer a solid chunk of optically precise
> electro-mechanical engineering, it just has to be encased in metal.
>
> Sorry to hear of your incapacity, perhaps you could use some sort of small
> trolley to allow you to move a real camera from place to place? - is it your
> wrists?....
>
> ..
>
> Can
> > you still buy SmartMedia cards?<
>
> Dunno - but since the E-20 takes Compct Flash/Microdrive, why lose any sleep
> over the question
>
>
>

Is the E-20 available in the US??? I've looked (even with google) and cant
find anyone selling it.


--
Larry Lynch
Mystic, Ct.
Anonymous
November 22, 2004 12:45:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.zlr (More info?)

Michael wrote:
[]
> Well, yes, Plastic can be Fantastic, and is the industry's material of
> choice for their toy cameras.
>
> If, however, you prefer a solid chunk of optically precise
> electro-mechanical engineering, it just has to be encased in metal.
>
> Sorry to hear of your incapacity, perhaps you could use some sort of
> small trolley to allow you to move a real camera from place to place?
> - is it your wrists?....

The metal cameras I carry weigh far less than 42oz - usually nearer 16oz.
Perhaps they use a better material? I was, quite frankly, amazed when I
saw the E20 quoted as 42oz (2.6lb). Is that perhaps a mistake?

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympuse20/page2.asp

> ..
>
> Can
>> you still buy SmartMedia cards?<
>
> Dunno - but since the E-20 takes Compct Flash/Microdrive, why lose
> any sleep over the question

Oh, that's fine - no problems!

David
Anonymous
November 22, 2004 3:59:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.zlr (More info?)

In article <MPG.1c0b9d1c3d501b31989840@news.comcast.giganews.com>,
Larry <lastingimagery@comcast.dotnet> wrote:

> Is the E-20 available in the US??? I've looked (even with google) and cant
> find anyone selling it.

Olympusautions on ebay has a couple for sale right now.
http://makeashorterlink.com/?B27F457D9
hth,
NB
Anonymous
November 22, 2004 9:09:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.zlr (More info?)

nellybly <nellybly@adephia.net> wrote in
news:221120041259585540%nellybly@adephia.net:

> Olympusautions on ebay has a couple for sale right now.
> http://makeashorterlink.com/?B27F457D9

Please do not post links to auctions or for-sale items here. The charter
for this newsgroup does not welcome such postings. Thank you.

--
Bill
Anonymous
December 8, 2004 4:45:43 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.zlr (More info?)

> Please do not post links to auctions or for-sale items here. The charter
> for this newsgroup does not welcome such postings. Thank you.

Dear Woodchuck Bill,
The Post I was repling to asked:

> Is the E-20 available in the US??? I've looked (even with google) and
> cant
> find anyone selling it.
>
> --
> Larry Lynch
> Mystic, Ct.

I have no personal connection with Olympus, and these auctions are
direct from the manufacturer. I cannot understand why you took
exception to my post. Is it illegal to tell someone where they might
find something they wish to buy?
I do not see this newsgroup gaining popularity if people who try to be
helpful to others are sanctioned in this way.
Happy Holidays,
NB
Anonymous
December 8, 2004 2:03:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.zlr (More info?)

I found a new E20 for sale at Amazon for about $1700. Dell has a new
Canon 20D for $1600 with no tax (in PA), no shipping and no interest
for a year (to preferred account holders). Given a choice, guess which
one I'm going to buy? Now, I can't post links to these cameras and I
can't discuss the features of the Canon without violating the charter
of this group, so you'll have to visit another news group to verify
what I say. Don't you just love free and open discussion?
Anonymous
December 8, 2004 10:14:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.zlr (More info?)

Kitt wrote:
> I found a new E20 for sale at Amazon for about $1700. Dell has a new
> Canon 20D for $1600 with no tax (in PA), no shipping and no interest
> for a year (to preferred account holders). Given a choice, guess
> which one I'm going to buy? Now, I can't post links to these cameras
> and I can't discuss the features of the Canon without violating the
> charter of this group, so you'll have to visit another news group to
> verify what I say. Don't you just love free and open discussion?

If you have something of interest to say to ZLR users about the cameras
they are using or comparisons with other cameras I don't see why you
shouldn't say your piece. You have already indicated the purchase sources
of these cameras so I am sure that anyone who is interested will be able
to find them. Thanks for respecting the charter.

David
Anonymous
December 10, 2004 6:51:49 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.zlr (More info?)

Yeah, but I was trying to find new prices to compare apples to apples.
The only thing B&H has is used E20's and you can find them elsewhere,
including E-Bay for around the range you cite. Let me know if you see
a 20D for a lot cheaper, as I really am looking to buy one.
Anonymous
December 10, 2004 6:51:55 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.zlr (More info?)

Yeah, but I was trying to find new prices to compare apples to apples.
The only thing B&H has is used E20's and you can find them elsewhere,
including E-Bay for around the range you cite. Let me know if you see
a 20D for a lot cheaper, as I really am looking to buy one.
Anonymous
December 10, 2004 8:36:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.zlr (More info?)

"Kitt" <kittochtinny@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1102532592.592851.149850@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>I found a new E20 for sale at Amazon for about $1700. Dell has a new
> Canon 20D for $1600 with no tax (in PA), no shipping and no interest
> for a year (to preferred account holders). Given a choice, guess which
> one I'm going to buy? Now, I can't post links to these cameras and I
> can't discuss the features of the Canon without violating the charter
> of this group, so you'll have to visit another news group to verify
> what I say. Don't you just love free and open discussion?
>
If you wanted an E20, don't look at Amazon. It may be available for less
than half that at B&H, probably in the 600's. A couple weeks ago the B&H
had the E1 for 1149. You can get the 20D a lot cheaper too.

Ron
December 15, 2004 5:27:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.zlr (More info?)

>
> Please do not post links to auctions or for-sale items here. The charter
> for this newsgroup does not welcome such postings. Thank you.


and your the cop og this group ?
Anonymous
December 15, 2004 5:27:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.zlr (More info?)

Chuck wrote:
>> Please do not post links to auctions or for-sale items here. The
>> charter for this newsgroup does not welcome such postings. Thank you.
>
>
> and your the cop og this group ?

our community is now complete: the village idiot position is filled

thank you, Chuck

dirty job, but someone's got to do it
Anonymous
December 16, 2004 1:29:00 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.zlr (More info?)

"Frank ess" <frank@fshe2fs.com> wrote in message
news:47qdnVDYosNbD13cRVn-vQ@giganews.com...
> Chuck wrote:
>>> Please do not post links to auctions or for-sale items here. The
>>> charter for this newsgroup does not welcome such postings. Thank you.
>>
>>
>> and your the cop og this group ?
>
> our community is now complete: the village idiot position is filled
>
> thank you, Chuck
>
> dirty job, but someone's got to do it
>

As a matter of interest from someone who has little experince of these
groups - is the group moderated? Can a poster be excluded?

Robert R.
Anonymous
December 16, 2004 2:36:34 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.zlr (More info?)

Bill Again wrote:
>
> As a matter of interest from someone who has little experince of these
> groups - is the group moderated? Can a poster be excluded?

The group is not moderated, and posters are excluded only by everyone
ignoring them. Hard to do; impossible for some. But if no one posted a
reply, ever, to a troll or A-hole (they are not synonymous, with several
exceptions), they would eventually loose interest. Except the bots. But
you wouldn't want to reply to a bot, would you?

<s>

--
John McWilliams
Anonymous
December 16, 2004 3:38:30 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.zlr (More info?)

"John McWilliams" <jpmcw@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:6U3wd.199187$V41.26868@attbi_s52...
> Bill Again wrote:
>>
>> As a matter of interest from someone who has little experince of these
>> groups - is the group moderated? Can a poster be excluded?
>
> The group is not moderated, and posters are excluded only by everyone
> ignoring them. Hard to do; impossible for some. But if no one posted a
> reply, ever, to a troll or A-hole (they are not synonymous, with several
> exceptions), they would eventually loose interest. Except the bots. But
> you wouldn't want to reply to a bot, would you?
>
> <s>
>
> --
> John McWilliams

Thanks for that. Appreciate your time.

Robert R.
Anonymous
December 16, 2004 5:26:06 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.zlr (More info?)

Now I see Nikon has a 10x, 8 megapixel ZLR w/stabilization for a
thousand dollars, the 8800. Also a wide angle variety w/IS, the 8400.
Getting harder to choose ZLR or SLR if price is a consideration, since
lenses can cost more than the camera.
Anonymous
December 16, 2004 1:44:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.zlr (More info?)

Kitt wrote:
> Now I see Nikon has a 10x, 8 megapixel ZLR w/stabilization for a
> thousand dollars, the 8800. Also a wide angle variety w/IS, the 8400.
> Getting harder to choose ZLR or SLR if price is a consideration, since
> lenses can cost more than the camera.

Leaving price out of it (because you /know/ it will be cheaper next
year...), the distinction between SLR and ZLR remains clear-cut.

Even if you leave price in it, where is the SLR plus a 10:1 image
stabilised zoom lens around 400mm focal length for the price of the Nikon
8800, let alone for the price of the Panasonic FZ20 or Canon S1 IS? And
what is the weight comparison?

Cheers,
David
Anonymous
December 16, 2004 9:15:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.zlr (More info?)

That was kind of my point. Assuming you call the Nikon 8800 a top of
the line ZLR, it gets a little harder to justify the SLR with IS lens
to match the capabilities of the 8800. For example, the Canon 20D with
a 300mm IS zoom will price out at around $2000 to $3000 or more,
depending on lens/lenses. Is flexibility worth that? Especially when
even that flexibility might be made obsolete in today's rapidly
changing marketplace. Who knows what might replace the DSLR in two or
three years as the next big thing? Think I'll stick with my S1 IS for
a while longer. Just saw that Amazon has the 1.6 teleconverter
lens/hood/adapter combo for $140. Maybe I can add the closeup lens for
a few dollars more. That'll keep me happy for a few more months. ;o)
December 19, 2004 8:46:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.zlr (More info?)

>
> our community is now complete: the village idiot position is filled
>
> thank you, Chuck
>
> dirty job, but someone's got to do it

damn your so funny, you should be a comedian, not.

I dont know why you think Im an idiot, but your obviously a dumbass ...
Anonymous
December 19, 2004 8:46:24 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.zlr (More info?)

Chuck wrote:
>> our community is now complete: the village idiot position is filled
>>
>> thank you, Chuck
>>
>> dirty job, but someone's got to do it
>
> damn your so funny, you should be a comedian, not.
>
> I dont know why you think Im an idiot, but your obviously a dumbass
> ...

"Chuck wrote:
>> Please do not post links to auctions or for-sale items here. The
>> charter for this newsgroup does not welcome such postings. Thank you.
>
>
> and your the cop og this group ? "

Three tries, three failures. You're the most qualified applicant. Could
be that's why.

Never mind.


--
Frank ess
Anonymous
December 22, 2004 6:07:49 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.zlr (More info?)

Kitt <kittochtinny@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Assuming you call the Nikon 8800 a top of
> the line ZLR, it gets a little harder to justify the SLR with IS lens
> to match the capabilities of the 8800. For example, the Canon 20D with
> a 300mm IS zoom will price out at around $2000 to $3000 or more,
> depending on lens/lenses.

> Is flexibility worth that?

And quality, I'd say.
That depends on you and what you want to do.

The 8800:
- lighter, (much) cheaper!!, smaller
- no extra lenses to buy and factor into the price
- can do movies
- twistable monitor
- no dust on the sensor problems
- no mirror slap noise, probably really silent
- on-monitor view of all important parameters


The 20D:
- ISO 1600 (good) and 3200 (OK). Practically no noise at/below
ISO 400.
- 50mm (80mm equiv) Canon lenses available with f/1.8 ($70), f/1.4
($300) and f/1.0 ($2500). They are very nice portrait lenses,
too, giving a nice bukeh. (Cheaper 3rd party lenses exist.)
- 70-200 (112-320 equiv) f/2.8 IS L lenses exist($1700), too.
(though slower lenses, without IS, are much much cheaper)
=> low-light advantage of 3-7 steps. Even if you can use flash,
you get less of the available light (and use more flash power),
risking to drown the background in black.
- fast lenses give you a _narrow_ depth of sharpness. You cannot
get that in any other way, not with flashes or tripods or more
light or any other tricks.
- The lenses can be re-used for many years on many cameras.
You can even switch to film, if you want ...
- Lenses stop down to f/22.
- moderately fast flash-sync of 1/250s allows you fill-in flashes
at day to lighten shadows.
- extensive tweakable white balance
- 5 frames/s, with a deep buffer
- switch on practically instantly (0.2s), just press the shutter
button to be ready to shoot in any and all modes of the camera
- probably higher quality (10x zoom lenses have to make 'some'
concessions. Note how high quality lenses seldom have more
than 3x zoom ...)
- direct view in the searcher, no light->sensor->monitor->eye
chain will slow things down.
- most important settings can be reached without going through
any menu, so you are faster 'on the draw'.
- 8 point AF circle + center AF point, including predictive
AF for moving targets.


But then making great photos is not a function of your camera:
http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/notcamera.htm
so choose whichever camera fits best in your budget and

> Especially when even that flexibility might be made obsolete in
> today's rapidly changing marketplace.

The lenses of an SLR, if quality lenses they are, can be used for
decades. And the lenses for SLRs stay over much longer periods.

> Who knows what might replace the DSLR in two or
> three years as the next big thing?

The 35mm format has been going for almost a century (since
1914, see
http://www.leica-camera.com/unternehmen/historie/barnac...
for more information), so I wouldn't worry myself sleepless about
the next 2 or 3 years, really.

> Think I'll stick with my S1 IS for
> a while longer. Just saw that Amazon has the 1.6 teleconverter
> lens/hood/adapter combo for $140. Maybe I can add the closeup lens for
> a few dollars more. That'll keep me happy for a few more months. ;o)

Note that such a "teleconverter" does degrade quality. The
question is: does it degrade enough for the 8800's sensor to see
it, and if so, so much that you do care?

-Wolfgang
Anonymous
December 22, 2004 10:56:27 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.zlr (More info?)

I am seeing a DSLR alternative that I like a lot, other things being
equal. The Konica Minolta Maxxum D7 has image stabilization built into
the camera, so less expensive and lighter weight non-IS lenses are all
that's required for the same job. Now, on the other side of the coin,
it will cost twice as much for the body and one basic zoom lens as does
the Panasonic or other stabilized ZLR's. The Maxxum seems to have a
lot of unanswered questions hanging, so it's hard to say whether it's a
great camera or not, but the idea is great.
Anonymous
December 22, 2004 1:15:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.zlr (More info?)

Wolfgang Weisselberg wrote:
[]
> The lenses of an SLR, if quality lenses they are, can be used for
> decades. And the lenses for SLRs stay over much longer periods.

Wolfgang, whilst you make some good points, lens mount formats can and do
change, leaving you with an expensive set of obsolete lenses. Quality SLR
image-stabilised lenses at f/2.8 (equivalent to the Panasonic FZ20) are
very expensive and far to heavy to carry around for everyday photography.
I do feel that the ZLR has enabled us to break away from the restrictions
of last century's 35mm format, giving us an extra choice for what we buy.

Cheers,
David
Anonymous
December 23, 2004 8:02:37 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.zlr (More info?)

David J Taylor <david-taylor@invalid.com> wrote:
> Wolfgang Weisselberg wrote:

>> The lenses of an SLR, if quality lenses they are, can be used for
>> decades. And the lenses for SLRs stay over much longer periods.

> Wolfgang, whilst you make some good points, lens mount formats can and do
> change, leaving you with an expensive set of obsolete lenses.

True, the last backwards incompatible shift was AFAIK mechanical
to electrical contacts for lenses (e.g. for autofocus). This however does
not happen all that often, does it?

> Quality SLR
> image-stabilised lenses at f/2.8 (equivalent to the Panasonic FZ20) are
> very expensive and far to heavy to carry around for everyday photography.

True, but on a 20D even a f/4 unstabilized lens (or a stabilized
lens stopped to f/8 or f/11) will give you equivalent or better
performance:

Light sensitivity[1]:
FZ20 f/2.8, ISO 100 == D20 f/8, ISO 800 (or even f/11, ISO 1600),
or f/4, ISO 1600 and +3 steps to
counter a 'no stabilizer' claim.[3]

Depth of field[2]:
FZ20's f/2.8 ~= D20 @ f10 ~= 35mm @ f/16


FZ20 pros:
- much lighter, several times cheaper(!), smaller --- taking
pictures with a camera left home tends to be rather hard.
- 12x zoom range without any lens changes, though very
tele-biased.
- inbuild macro mode
- inbuild image stabilisator
- good in medium-to-low-light large DOF situations (parties etc.)
- a damaged camera won't hurt your purse as much by far.
- web/computer friendly 4:3 format
- movies (quarter-VGA only, though)
- live histogram


20D pros:
- much better shallow depth of field (portraits!)
- much larger ISO range, giving better low-light performance
even with stabilized slower lenses or similar performance even
without stabilisation.
- fast prime lenses[4] available
- much more wide angle available
- larger buffer, faster continous mode (sports!), orientation
sensor
- most important changes can be done without going through
any menu.
- no viewfinder lag, extreme viewfinder resolution, DOF preview

> I do feel that the ZLR has enabled us to break away from the restrictions
> of last century's 35mm format, giving us an extra choice for what we buy.

And that is a Very Good Thing.

I do use an even smaller 3MP P&S camera, and it does great things
within it's limits. And I do carry it always, it's riding on my
hip ... unlike some equipment who'se cost and weight are both one
order of magnitude higher.

-Wolfgang


[1] http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonicfz20/page9.asp
"Visible noise at ISOs above 100"

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos20d/page28.asp
"Very low noise levels even at high sensitivities, fully
usable ISO range (100 - 3200)"

[2] http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonicfz20/
"1/2.5" Type CCD" -> 5.760 x 4.290mm per
http://www.dpreview.com/learn/?/Glossary/Camera_System/...

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos20d/page2.asp
"22.5 x 15.0 mm CMOS sensor"

According to http://www.wrotniak.com/photo/dof/
"The depth of field of a digital camera with a lens of the
1:N focal length equivalence ratio at a given F-setting is
the same as that of a 35 mm camera with a lens closed down
to the aperture number of F multiplied by N."

[3] Note that AFAIK the 20D is currently the best DSLR when
it comes to low noise at high ISO rates.

[4] If you _really_ need low light performance, Canon's 50mm
(80mm equiv. on the 20D) f/1.8 lens is 1.5 steps below f/2.8,
132g and $75:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=detai...
and the f/1.4 is 290g and $300 (for that extra half-stop of
light and shallow DOF).
Even a Canon 50mm f/1.0 is out there for the rich.

Of course these *are* prime lenses, no zoom there.
Anonymous
December 23, 2004 1:33:24 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.zlr (More info?)

Wolfgang Weisselberg wrote:
[]
>> I do feel that the ZLR has enabled us to break away from the
>> restrictions of last century's 35mm format, giving us an extra
>> choice for what we buy.
>
> And that is a Very Good Thing.
>
> I do use an even smaller 3MP P&S camera, and it does great things
> within it's limits. And I do carry it always, it's riding on my
> hip ... unlike some equipment who'se cost and weight are both one
> order of magnitude higher.
>
> -Wolfgang

I found that I stopped carrying my SLR because it was so cumbersome and
heavy with all the extra lenses. Just like you, I always carry my P&S. I
miss fewer photos that way!

Cheers,
David
!