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This build pretty good? Will everything go together?

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February 14, 2013 11:36:39 AM

Had a guy who knows a lot about this stuff help me put this build together. However I did hear this from one guy, I will quote.

"Firstly, your video card wont be fully supported by your Mobo

Thats just it, there are currently no AMD motherboards that support PCIE x16 3.0

So that means you have to either use an old card, or put a 3.0 card into a 2.0 slot which slows down your card ALOT

that is why until this changes, I will go Intel for the CPU and AMD for the video card."

Kind of surprising to hear him say this, so hoping to get third opinion from you guys to see if he's actually wrong about this or not. Considering the guy who helped me do this build, has been doing this stuff for 20 + years.
The build: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/DgbM

More about : build pretty good

a b B Homebuilt system
a b U Graphics card
February 14, 2013 12:00:09 PM

thats correct there is no amd motherboard that support pcie 3.0
pcie is backwards compatible meaning you can have pcie 3.0 card in 2.0 slot and it will work
the newest cards use the pcie 3.0 interface but they do not fully utilize it meaning the cards are not fast enough to take advantage of the new faster interface so you have nothing to worry about. I"m running 7970 (pcie 3.0) with 2550k which offers pcie 2.0 and I"m having no issues playing games

hope this clears things out...its not the end of the world you can get amd cpu/mobo with pcie 3.0 amd cards and it will work...intel cpus are faster but amd processors offer better bang for the buck if you budget is low


hope this clears things out
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February 14, 2013 12:04:58 PM

"So that means you have to either use an old card"
Nope

"or put a 3.0 card into a 2.0 slot which slows down your card ALOT"
Wrong

3.0 increases bandwidth, yes, but the main pro is by allowing x8 and x4 lanes to have higher bandwidth for CF and SLI setups. You'll lose maybe 1% for a single highend, flagship card configuration, and barely anything with your 670. If you were considering a 4-way SLI in the future, maybe you'd run into a few problems, the first of which being that your mobo doesn't have 4 lanes anyway.

Edit: Forgot to even comment on the build. Good setup, I'd maybe just go with an FX-8320 to save a few bucks, and perhaps consider dropping to a WD Blue; I like the blacks, especially for my main rigs, but I sometimes wonder if the premium is worth it over their mainstream line. As far as the wireless adaptor- that seems expensive, considering there are many highly-rated pci-e adaptors on newegg for half to even a third that cost that offer similar performance.

If you can save $20 on the CPU, $20-30 on the HDD, and $15+ on a different wireless card, you might come up with enough savings to justify throwing a 64GB+ solid state drive for a boot, common app drive.
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February 14, 2013 12:05:40 PM

alvine said:
thats correct there is no amd motherboard that support pcie 3.0
pcie is backwards compatible meaning you can have pcie 3.0 card in 2.0 slot and it will work
the newest cards use the pcie 3.0 interface but they do not fully utilize it meaning the cards are not fast enough to take advantage of the new faster interface so you have nothing to worry about. I"m running 7970 (pcie 3.0) with 2550k which offers pcie 2.0 and I"m having no issues playing games

hope this clears things out...its not the end of the world you can get amd cpu/mobo with pcie 3.0 amd cards and it will work...intel cpus are faster but amd processors offer better bang for the buck if you budget is low


hope this clears things out



The amd 8350 cpu is already kind of top notch isn't it? I've heard great things about it, and yeah I was kind of on a budget, and heard nothing but great things about it. However the motherboard still concerns me. So will it not allow my video card to it's full performance? Say if I were to ever run something in 1440p on ultra. I haven't purchased the motherboard yet so still have time to switch if it would be a better idea to. Just surprises me because the guy who helped me put this together, has multiple degrees for this sort of stuff and has been working on stuff like this for 20+ years as I said before. :( 

I've had other builds offered where people have said it would be better, however I was just more trusting of his build, considering the experience.


So anyways to summarize down the questions, when you look at this build, do you see it being a great one? What are some things that SHOULD be changed?
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February 14, 2013 12:09:47 PM

joafu said:
"So that means you have to either use an old card"
Nope

"or put a 3.0 card into a 2.0 slot which slows down your card ALOT"
Wrong

3.0 increases bandwidth, yes, but the main pro is by allowing x8 and x4 lanes to have higher thourough-put for CF and SLI setups. You'll lose maybe 1% for a single highend, flagship card configuration, and barely anything with your 670. If you were considering a 4-way SLI in the future, maybe you'd run into a few problems, the first of which being that your mobo doesn't have 4 lanes anyway.


Not sure what you mean by 4 way sli, haha. But it sounds like it really won't make a difference at all using it with this motherboard? If it helps, I'll be playing games in ultra, possibly streaming, stuff like that.
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February 14, 2013 12:17:33 PM

Interesting what you've been advised. The only thing I know of that can currently max out a PCIe 3.0 connection is an SSD. Existing GPUs don't, and by the time you run into that issue you'll probably be ready for upgrading anyway.

Your build looks fine. There are always things you can change...personally, I'd get a more powerful PSU to accommodate multiple GPUs later on if that's something you see yourself doing. The 7970 is about the same cost as a 670 but is arguably more powerful...there's plenty of discussion back and forward on that topic on t'internet.

Tom's CPU hierarchy also lists current Intel CPUs as being better than the AMD CPU you've selected. If it's do-able, you may want to flip your build to being Intel-based, and go for a 3570K. If you've chosen the AMD CPU on cost grounds, then check out whether an i3 would be better for the time being. However, that AMD CPU isn't going to noticeably limit you, if you want to just leave it as it is.
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a b B Homebuilt system
a b U Graphics card
February 14, 2013 12:22:38 PM

8 core with 670 or 7970 is a good combo. dont be worried about bottlenecking..you can always minimize the bottleneck of gpu by increasing graphics settings to task the gpu more and therefore lower the bottleneck

edit: yea i forgot to check the partpicker xD
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February 14, 2013 12:24:04 PM

Check the PCPartPicker link the OP posted...
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February 14, 2013 12:29:46 PM

diellur said:
Interesting what you've been advised. The only thing I know of that can currently max out a PCIe 3.0 connection is an SSD. Existing GPUs don't, and by the time you run into that issue you'll probably be ready for upgrading anyway.

Your build looks fine. There are always things you can change...personally, I'd get a more powerful PSU to accommodate multiple GPUs later on if that's something you see yourself doing. The 7970 is about the same cost as a 670 but is arguably more powerful...there's plenty of discussion back and forward on that topic on t'internet.

Tom's CPU hierarchy also lists current Intel CPUs as being better than the AMD CPU you've selected. If it's do-able, you may want to flip your build to being Intel-based, and go for a 3570K. If you've chosen the AMD CPU on cost grounds, then check out whether an i3 would be better for the time being. However, that AMD CPU isn't going to noticeably limit you, if you want to just leave it as it is.



Here's something I found on the two diff video cards
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/358881-33-radeon-7970
So they seem to be the same performance? 7970 maybe slightly more but slightly better? Not sure.
I was suggested into getting a powerful supply by someone else too. I'm just so scared to change things right now because I don't know what works with what, or if it's good advice or not. ((Always have to get multiple opinions to be sure.))

As for the cpu, if I do go intel, would I have to change my video card or anything else? And also is the intel 3570k about the same price as the amd I currently have chosen now?

ALso by getting a more powerful psu for gpus, do you mean like a more powerful motherboard with better psu's, for multiple graphic cards? ((Sorry new to the terms had to look up what it meant. A lot of this is new to me like I said.))
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a b B Homebuilt system
a b U Graphics card
February 14, 2013 12:33:25 PM

your power supply is fine for a single card but it never hurts to have a bigger power supply for future upgrades. as long as you pick a higher wattage power supply you're fine just dont downgrade it
if you go intel you will have to pick an intel compatible motherboard, ram will work on either amd or intel computer

edit: by more powerfull psu they mean the power supply can run more things, computer parts stay the same
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February 14, 2013 12:34:52 PM

vincenntxue said:
Not sure what you mean by 4 way sli, haha. But it sounds like it really won't make a difference at all using it with this motherboard? If it helps, I'll be playing games in ultra, possibly streaming, stuff like that.


4 way SLI(scalable link interface)- using four mating nVidia cards in tandem; CF is crossfire, AMD's multi-GPU solution.

Usually, motherboards don't have multiple, simultaneous 16x lanes; multiple lanes are rated for that, but once you start dropping in more than one card, some of the lanes will scale back to 8x (or 4x, etc). Often, 1 can run at 16x; 2 cards will run at either 16x and 8x/both at 8x; 3 cards will run at 8x,8x,8x/8x,8x,4x,etc. So unless you go big on motherboard with supporting chipsets, putting 2+cards in tandem rarely actually doubles performance.

So you haven't started building yet? You could swap out that fx for an intel build with an i5/z77 chipset, I'm sure someone will suggest that soon enough, but I think an fx-8300 will be fine for your purposes.
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February 14, 2013 12:38:09 PM

alvine said:
your power supply is fine for a single card but it never hurts to have a bigger power supply for future upgrades. as long as you pick a higher wattage power supply you're fine just dont downgrade it
if you go intel you will have to pick an intel compatible motherboard, ram will work on either amd or intel computer

edit: by more powerfull psu they mean the power supply can run more things


If I went intel, would I also have to switch the graphics card? I probably won't end up doing it, considering I'm too scared to really change this build too much. In my opinion from what I'm seeing, it seems they all have their own benefits, ((Intel and amd.)) And there's a lot of people biased towards either or. I just want to make sure I'm not screwing myself anywhere. I do know he also picked out this motherboard because of something about having to flash bios others? Not sure. But from what he told me, this is a very good build, and a simple one to put together where I shouldn't run into any problems.

Also, would a radeon work with the build I have now, or does that require some switching as well?




Also.

Build 1: ((The one I'm planning to go with, coming from the guy I know who has a ton of experience.)) http://pcpartpicker.com/p/DgbM

Build 2: One I was suggested, more intel type stuff.
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/Dnml
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February 14, 2013 12:43:04 PM

Don't get scared about picking components, it's straightforward and you're unlikely to do something wrong. As alvine said, if you switch to an Intel CPU then you need a compatible motherboard...it should support Socket 1155, might refer to it as LGA1155. The most common motherboard type for this is Z77.

Getting a more powerful PSU is simply a matter of getting one with a bigger number. I'd go to 650W minimum to give yourself some headroom...you don't know what you're going to add later that may need that little bit more power. Get one that is 80+ rated, bronze is ideal without breaking the bank (it's a measure of its efficiency).

Picking a GPU is a matter of knowing what you're doing with the system (e.g. gaming) and how much you want to spend. A 670 is a great card, you won't regret it. Depending upon where you read, the 7970 can perform better. However, driver support for AMD is historically not as good as it is with Nvidia.

The other factor to consider is whether you're going to go multi-GPU later on...either for running multiple screens or as a GPU upgrade in the future when your single card isn't quite cutting it. If you go AMD, the motherboard needs to support Crossfire. If Nvidia, it's called SLI...the thing is, not all motherboards support SLI so check (tends to be the cheaper ones that don't). If you're never going to go multi-GPU, ignore this paragraph completely.
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February 14, 2013 12:47:41 PM

It sounds like you've been bamboozled with this whole PC building thing. Switching to Intel is nothing at this stage, it's just another option. AMD CPUs will work with Nvidia cards, and Intel CPUs with AMD cards...no issue.

The real challenge is spending your money in the most efficient way. I'd argue that's an Intel build...they're about the same price as AMD, are generally better CPUs (run more efficiently, too).
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a b B Homebuilt system
a b U Graphics card
February 14, 2013 12:51:00 PM

no you dont have to switch graphics cards....graphics cards use pcie interface which is found on intel and amd motherboard...its a standard port like an usb port you will find on computers for example

you wont screw yourself witch going either amd or intel...either way you will have to change the processor obviously and pick a compatible motherboard for it...with either motherboard it will take any pcie card you pick and the ddr3 ram will fit on both

you might flash bios on motherboard for compability meaning an older amd might support their quad core processors but it was released before their 8 cores...the motherboard will not support the 8 core as it doesnt know they exist but you can "teach" the motherboard about the new 8 cores with a bios update...general rule is pick the newest motherboard as they will have somewhat of a new bios that will support all of the current processors

as i said earlier amd radeon and nvidia use the same interface so it doesnt matter...they will fit a pcie slot found on either intel or amd motherboards


you have ask yourself what you will be using that pc for. if mainly for games go for intel as games benefit more from higher clocked cores and the intel K processor is meant for increasing its core clocks meaning overclocking

amd cpu in my opinion is better suited for programming

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February 14, 2013 1:16:44 PM

Haha, reading these posts made me think I went too far into detail; don't pay any attention to what I said if it confuses you, sticking with one card bypasses all that jargon.

Between your builds, either option will work, and they will both see very good performance in a way that you might not even notice one to the next. Are you building this yourself? What kind of monitor set up are you using (how many, what resolution)?

As far as CPUs go- the i5 is kind of the gaming rockstar right now in terms of price/performance, at least in the ~$200 category. Excellent overclocking potential, excellent architecture, excellent TDP and efficiency, compared to the *relatively* lackluster AMD offerings (not as good architecture, higher TDP= heat == lower overall effeciency per Watt, but still decent overclocking) in this range. Both are amazing compared to what we had even a few years ago, so it's not like the upper AMD offerings are bad, it's only relatively speaking, and Intel's research budget far and away exceeds AMD's, so it's no surprise they lead the pack.

AMD vs nVidia: both are great, and major differences come down to specific vendors like XFX, Sapphire, EVGA <- stick with one of those, you'll be fine. Historically, nVidia is seen as the better company for driver support as they put them out more frequently; IIRC AMD is pushing to put out more periodic drivers as well. Prices generally scale well, ie get the card that fits the budget; otherwise Tom's frontpage has a link for best graphics card for the money if you're still confused for what your budget is.
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February 14, 2013 1:27:15 PM

So it seems people do favor the radeon. I think the reason I'm also wanting to stay so far from intel s because of bad experience with laptops, I just need to let it go though haha.

ANyways here's an updated build:
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/Duit
((Or should I stick to that gtx 670?))
Please feel free to make changes. If you could switch the cpu to a nice intel CPU that would be great, since like you guys have been saying, it has the best cpu for gaming. With that said, I suppose I would also like a motherboard that would be compatible for all I'm getting, including the new intel cpu once you guys find one.
As for the tower case, people keep suggesting for me to not bother getting an expensive one, as you can see in this build, this guy took it out and replaced with a cheap. Would you agree with this decision?
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a b B Homebuilt system
a b U Graphics card
February 14, 2013 1:43:57 PM

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/DuzA
heres the build you posted above with switched intel and compatible intel mobo
should you go for 670 or 7970? I lean towards 7970
as for the case pick the cheapest one to get good hardware inside...later on you can upgrade to a nice looking one with better quieter fans and what not
for intel cpu i picked the 2500k over 3xxx series as apparently the new processors use cheaper metal conductor the heatsink will touch making them run a little hotter and the 2xxx series overclock higher
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February 14, 2013 2:38:13 PM

alvine said:
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/DuzA
heres the build you posted above with switched intel and compatible intel mobo
should you go for 670 or 7970? I lean towards 7970
as for the case pick the cheapest one to get good hardware inside...later on you can upgrade to a nice looking one with better quieter fans and what not
for intel cpu i picked the 2500k over 3xxx series as apparently the new processors use cheaper metal conductor the heatsink will touch making them run a little hotter and the 2xxx series overclock higher


Ah ok. Thank you very much. So does AMD own the radeon series? Also so this cpu is a definite upgrade compared to my amd one for gaming?
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a b B Homebuilt system
a b U Graphics card
February 14, 2013 2:47:22 PM

yes amd owns radeon...back in the day we would call their cards ATI Radeon 4870 for example..now we just call them AMD 4870
for gaming yes i think the higher clocked quad core will benefit you more than the slower clocked 8 core. i have that processor overclocked to 4.8ghz and it works nicely with my 7970...i can max out any new titles such as far cry 3, bf 3 at 1080p and anti aliasing turned on
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February 14, 2013 2:54:22 PM

alvine said:
yes amd owns radeon...back in the day we would call their cards ATI Radeon 4870 for example..now we just call them AMD 4870
for gaming yes i think the higher clocked quad core will benefit you more than the slower clocked 8 core. i have that processor overclocked to 4.8ghz and it works nicely with my 7970...i can max out any new titles such as far cry 3, bf 3 at 1080p and anti aliasing turned on


Should work with 1440p as well right? I know with the gtx 670 I was gong to get, that it was showing those specs would handle 1440p on max settings fine.
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a b B Homebuilt system
a b U Graphics card
February 14, 2013 2:58:16 PM

yes they both support the same resolutions
dvi port gives you up to 30 inch screen resolution 2560x1440...hdmi gives you up to 1080p meaning 1920 by 1080

i know parts might be confusing but they all follow some standard meaning if they have ports the ports have to support the same specifications, the interface you connect the card to is another specification (pcie) so you can mix and match and card with intel or nvidia with intel amd with amd card amd cpu with nvidia card and so on, ddr3 specification means you can plug them to either intel or amd mobo as long as it supports dd3, hard drives/optical drives use sata interface to transfer data so you will see the same connector on all of them excluding the older IDE drives
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February 14, 2013 3:03:26 PM

alvine said:
yes they both support the same resolutions
dvi port gives you up to 30 inch screen resolution 2560x1440...hdmi gives you up to 1080p meaning 1920 by 1080

i know parts might be confusing but they all follow some standard meaning if they have ports the ports have to support the same specifications, the interface you connect the card to if another specification (pcie), ddr3 specification means you can plug them to either intel or amd mobo as long as it supports dd3, hard drives/optical drives use sata interface to transfer data so you will see the same connector on all of them excluding the older IDE drives



Alright thanks man. I think I need to stop stressing and just order the parts and build. Just so many concerns. 1 being, it's like I have to stick with one brand. So if I end up going intel and hate it, then what, ya know? Well not all brands, but from what I'm reading it sounds like, cpus = intel, gpus = amd

Anyways. Final questions, then ill get some second opinions on the build and start ordering the parts. Everything you linked me on that build, it all is compatible with each other perfectly? All will be pretty easy to install? Just simply hook it all up and install the drives with the discs?



http://pcpartpicker.com/p/Dvd7

There's another build some guy linked me. Would you still say the one you gave is better or they both equal out to the same?
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February 15, 2013 10:02:24 AM

My only reservation on alvine's recommended build is that it has the i5-2500K. It's an excellent CPU, but previous gen tech. Are you even interested in overclocking? Because that's only where you'll notice the difference and given you seem quite new to PC building, you may just be happy with a normal CPU. Your call. Of the two, I'd personally recommend the i5-3570K as it's newer...yes, may not overclock as far due to heat, but it'll overclock far enough (say, 4.2GHz as opposed to 4.5GHz, you're not going to notice the difference practically) and it is more power efficient.

Re the case, I don't know what your budget is, but for a bit more you could get a Corsair chassis which will have some nice features like cable management. Might be worth it, just to have a clean-looking build.

Building is straight forward...check out youtube for guides. Give us a shout for advice then, once step at a time. Put aside a day for the build and install.
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