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AMD to INTEL.. maybe... advice please

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February 21, 2013 1:32:59 PM

Hey guys, I have dropped a lot of money into my computer lately. And I just haven't got the performance I want.
I don't know why to be honest...
I mean, people with similar and sometimes weaker specs appear to fair so much better than my own PC.
Is it because of the 7970 I bought?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

I feel like I should have dished out the extra 50 for the GHZ addition.

Well, too late now.
This 7970 actually feels a bit.. sluggish compared to my GTX 660 non TI, with the latest drivers. Which is really weird, considering it should perform "a lot better" according to bench marks.

I don't know what's preventing me from getting the 'amazing' feel out of my PC.
I'm going to list my PC parts, and I really need someone to push me into the right direction.
I'm seriously considering just dropping 500 to go intel because this performance is just making me angry, I've already dropped so much on upgrades.

7970:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

CPU & COOLER:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

SSD/HDD:
X2 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
1 1TB (not from newegg) 7200RPM

RAM:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

MOTHERBOARD:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

CASE:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
(5 noctua 120mm case fans installed)

PSU:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...


What is my bottle neck, what is holding me back? Why do I feel sluggish in modern games, and get random frame skips, drops. My performance is actually worse than before?...

Also, should I buy this now? It's 90 dollars off!
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

I want to get two 7970s anyway, I'm sure a 750W seasonic PSU would do me good in the future anyway.

Anyway, my main question is:
What is preventing me from feeling like all that money didn't go to waste?
Is it one part of my PC, or is it just my 8320?
Should I just go intel?

I really want my money to not be put to shame like this.

Please respond asap, any and all advice is appreciate!
Thanks.

More about : amd intel advice

February 21, 2013 1:49:33 PM

AMD Radeon said:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/fx-8350-core-i7-377...

better read article above

sorry everyone, i am not an AMD fanboy, nor Nvidia/intel

Well, this doesn't really answer my question sadly. In the end, they say the FX is the better value because it -sometimes- performs identically.

I'm more so trying to figure out my main problem with my build now.
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February 21, 2013 1:52:46 PM

-For high end gaming Intel still has the lead for CPU power. If you want mid-range, both Intel and AMD offer similar products at similar lower prices.

-You did well to buy a non-Ghz version of the 7970. All you have to do it raise the GPU clocks to 1000/1500 and there you go, you have a Ghz edition (tbh the ram speed doesnt give any performance increase -> about 1% for 1375 to 1500) You can actually go to 1050mhz or more on the core without increased voltage. It is unrealistic, up to laughable, to say that a GTX660 compares to a 7970 even if you have an AMD CPU. Your 7970 may be defective or older drivers where not properly uninstalled and are imparing the card. I hope you are not using the drivers that where on CD that came with the 7970...

-Buying a 2nd 7970 wont give you much better performance. Many reviews have shown how badly crossfire or SLi setups scale in most (unoptimised) games, with crossfire being worst than SLi. Anyways, two 7970's can be supported by a 750W seasonic platinum unit with no issues. The 520W unit you showed is OK for one 7970 BARELY and because it is bronze rated 520W i might say that your current single 7970 may be unstable due to the weak power supply (classic issue), thus explaining your problem with the 7970 but no problem with gtx660.

-In terms of CPU, I strongly suggest you to wait for Haswell and buy a new CPU of that series after June. Performance is said to be almost the same as the current gen intel cpus but at least you will have the "latest" version.
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February 21, 2013 1:55:51 PM

tlg said:
-For high end gaming Intel still has the lead for CPU power. If you want mid-range, both Intel and AMD offer similar products at similar lower prices.

-You did well to buy a non-Ghz version of the 7970. All you have to do it raise the GPU clocks to 1000/1500 and there you go, you have a Ghz edition (tbh the ram speed doesnt give any performance increase -> about 1% for 1375 to 1500) You can actually go to 1050mhz or more on the core without increased voltage. It is unrealistic, up to laughable, to say that a GTX660 compares to a 7970 even if you have an AMD CPU. Your 7970 may be defective or older drivers where not properly uninstalled and are imparing the card. I hope you are not using the drivers that where on CD that came with the 7970...

-Buying a 2nd 7970 wont give you much better performance. Many reviews have shown how badly crossfire or SLi setups scale in most (unoptimised) games, with crossfire being worst than SLi. Anyways, two 7970's can be supported by a 750W seasonic platinum unit with no issues. The 520W unit you showed is OK for one 7970 BARELY and because it is bronze rated 520W i might say that your current single 7970 may be unstable due to the weak power supply (classic issue), thus explaining your problem with the 7970 but no problem with gtx660.

-In terms of CPU, I strongly suggest you to wait for Haswell and buy a new CPU of that series after June. Performance is said to be almost the same as the current gen intel cpus but at least you will have the "latest" version.

Thanks for you reply, just the kind I've been looking for. I'm going to get this 750W since it's only 100, and the reviews seem solid. I'm hoping my GPU isn't defective, but I still have this feeling that something in my PC just isn't right, maybe it's my motherboard?

Do you think my motherboard could be holding my current setup back at all?
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February 21, 2013 2:00:37 PM

Its not your motherboard, its your processor's performance especially if its not overclocked. But i am pretty convinced that your current 520W PSU has trouble with the power load from the 7970.
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February 21, 2013 2:03:00 PM

tlg said:
Its not your motherboard, its your processor's performance especially if its not overclocked. But i am pretty convinced that your current 520W PSU has trouble with the power load from the 7970.

Well, it's currently at 4GHZ, I had it after 4.2 but it was unstable. Then again, I'm not really 100% on how to get it higher without editting more than just the voltage and multiplier.
But going from 3.5 to 4 gave me better FPS in most games I play.
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a b B Homebuilt system
February 21, 2013 2:05:32 PM

allow me to put a quote from AMD user on another thread, panicmaster85, which is quite well-known here

Quote:
yeah my 8120 bottlenecked my 670... oh and the 7870 is not par with the 670 you if your very very lucky with your card may be able to get like 5-10% lower than a 7950 stock but thats basically it... oh and no the i5 will have no bottleneck on your gpu(believe me i went from and 8120 overclocked to 4.7 to a 3570 overclocked to 3.3 and my performance is a LOT better)
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February 21, 2013 2:08:04 PM

AMD Radeon said:
allow me to put a quote from AMD user on another thread, panicmaster85, which is quite well-known here

Yes, I've heard similar things. But I expected a lot more out of my 8320, seeing as most people with my CPU do pretty well paired with their 7970s. From what I've seen on youtube, heard from friends, and seen on bench marks.
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February 21, 2013 2:08:07 PM

Can you give us a little more insight on what you use your pc for? What games are you playing, BF3, Wow etc. Also when you say that "amazing" feeling. What kind of performance are you getting in fps?

Different games are gpu or cpu intensive. Then you got games like bf3 which use both pretty heavily.

Personally I agree with the haswell comment above. Moving to haswell (or even ivy) will increase your overall experience dramatically. Your video card is more then capable of running the latest.
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February 21, 2013 2:10:57 PM

My 7870 runs everything above 60fps I throw at it @ 1080p. Your bottleneck is not the card unless you are running insane resolutions.

Never used an FX so I cannot say anything about that. But the Phenom II 965 will easily OC to 4.0 Ghz and plays games really well. My i3570k is as smooth as butter without an overclock however.
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February 21, 2013 2:12:38 PM

TestOne said:
From what I've seen on youtube, heard from friends,

Most likely low resolutions.
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February 21, 2013 2:15:44 PM

A power hungry CPU and a power hungry GPU is quite demanding, perhaps your PSU isn't up to the task.


Also make sure that your GPU is in the faster motherboard slot.

PCI Express 2.0 x16 - 2 (x16, x4)


Make sure it is in the x16 speed. Let me know
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February 21, 2013 2:15:51 PM

BF3 isn't a very performance heavy game from my experience.
On my GTX 660 (non TI) I got min: 38 max: 58 average: 46FPS in hitman absolution.
With my 7970, it can vary. But it's usually around 28 min, 40 average, 62 max.

I play games like:
Arma 2 Operration arrowhead (mods like Takistan Life, Wasteland, DayZ)
Far Cry 3
Hitman Absolution
BF3 (sparingly)
Dead Space 3
Bioshock infinite (soon)
Crysis 3
GTA V (later)
GTA IV (rarely)
Borderlands 2
Sniper Elite
Devil May Cry
and of course more as new games are released.

I have a 1080P monitor, and even when I put games like Far Cry 3 at medium to low settings on my 7970 it just lags really bad, and I mean 25-30 FPS bad.
I've seen videos and have heard most people say their 7970/8320s/8350s do so well in games like FarCry 3 and Arma 2 mods, etc.

if I really had to, I'd go with an i5 if it meant that my computer would be that much better.
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February 21, 2013 2:16:35 PM

biggkenny said:
A power hungry CPU and a power hungry GPU is quite demanding, perhaps your PSU isn't up to the task.


Also make sure that your GPU is in the faster motherboard slot.

PCI Express 2.0 x16 - 2 (x16, x4)


Make sure it is in the x16 speed. Let me know

Yes, it's in the x16 slot.

unoriginal1 said:
Most likely low resolutions.

1080P
______________
Pretty sure I'm buying this.
Actually, I'm buying it now!
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February 21, 2013 2:27:11 PM

See if anyone you know will let you try with a better PSU. Then we can see if it's power or not.
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February 21, 2013 2:36:39 PM

biggkenny said:
See if anyone you know will let you try with a better PSU. Then we can see if it's power or not.

Well, unfortunately I can't do that, but I already bought this 720W PSU anyway. I guess I'll have to wait till monday, and if I still need that extra super power I'll just have to go INTEL :sol: 
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February 21, 2013 2:41:01 PM

DOUBLE POST DUE TO.. cake
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February 21, 2013 2:45:16 PM

have you tried checking the load on you're GPU? also What driver's are you using. I'm running a Core 2 quad with a 670 FTW and I think I'm getting better performance, so something is definitely fishy here.
Also Do not that Nvidia cards are typically reported as having lower frame latency's then AMD cards (although I doubt that's the problem).
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February 21, 2013 2:50:11 PM

trumpeter1994 said:
have you tried checking the load on you're GPU? also What driver's are you using. I'm running a Core 2 quad with a 670 FTW and I think I'm getting better performance, so something is definitely fishy here.
Also Do not that Nvidia cards are typically reported as having lower frame latency's then AMD cards (although I doubt that's the problem).

Latest driverz, I check for updates literally every day.
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February 21, 2013 3:04:07 PM

If you can wait till march Asus is releasing a PCI-E 3.0 board with AM3/AM3+ support so you should just switch to the asus sabertooth 990fx Gen3 R 2.0 and that should fix your problems without spending alot on a Intel CPU and Motherboard.
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February 21, 2013 10:26:47 PM

That may sound silly but what kind of connection do You use, DVI or HDMI cable and if HDMI, how long is it and what quality, what TV. I know it has nothing to do with FPS but it may add to slugish experience. Also did You try to run Cinebench, and some stress tests?
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February 22, 2013 2:44:32 AM

mawic said:
That may sound silly but what kind of connection do You use, DVI or HDMI cable and if HDMI, how long is it and what quality, what TV. I know it has nothing to do with FPS but it may add to slugish experience. Also did You try to run Cinebench, and some stress tests?

It's not the experience, it's actual FPS.
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a c 136 B Homebuilt system
February 22, 2013 4:52:45 AM

pci-e x16 standards are NOT the issue . If there is any difference in speed between 2.0 and 3.0 its very small

OP did you have the nVidia card in this computer and swap it out for the 7970?
Yoiu dont make it clear but it sounds like you did

Did you remove all traces of nVidia drivers and all nVidia software first?

If not then uninstall the AMD driver , NUKE every trace of the nVidia software
reboot a couple of times and check again the nVidia software is gone

and then install the AMD driver
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February 26, 2013 1:40:58 AM

Hi, I just installed my new PSU. It didn't help with overclocking (CPU/GPU), or make much of a difference.
However, it did give me head room.
I have a feeling it's just the 'cheapness' of the video card, as in;; It was one of the cheapest 7970 I could find.

Alas, I realized that the AMD package I downloaded the first time did not install my Catalyst drivers.
I installed them today after removing some things, however I'm now having some windows problems, (BOOTMGR not found, so I did the start up repair from my windows 7 ultimate DISK, and now I"m getting some other errors when trying to install AMD overdrive. Is there a way to reinstall JUST the windows 7 files without having to do a new install/lose programs, settings, desktop shortcuts, etc.?)

My FPS has improved significantly in some games. Crysis 3 is a different story, but I have read that many people are suffering. (I can only play at high @ 1080p however, with 30fps~90fps)
I'm pleased enough, but I'm sure with a strong i5 or i7 I could see better FPS across the board in all games.
The AMD drivers/site isn't as personal and informative or easily navigatable as nVidia.

My motherboard is low quality, flimsy. I'm sure a new motherboard + intel proccesor could prove to hold better than my current 8320.

Besides, if I did upgrade I'd have a few parts left over that I could probably build into a computer and sell. for a decent amount to make up for the drop on a better motherboard/proccesor.

From this point, I think the best thing would be to wait until I get enough (500+ should do) to drop into an intel upgrade, make a post and see where I can go from there. Assuming my 7970 isn't the main source. But when I ugprade, I'll probably get faster ram, a motherboard meant for over clocking, and maybe a new case.

Thanks for the advice guys.
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February 26, 2013 1:53:47 AM

well, your AMD processor will actually help in crysis 3 (considering how well coded it is for multi cores)
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a c 136 B Homebuilt system
February 26, 2013 2:53:28 AM

your problem is obviously software and not hardware related

Try downloading the latest driver for your card from AMD
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February 26, 2013 3:01:15 AM

Outlander_04 said:
your problem is obviously software and not hardware related

Try downloading the latest driver for your card from AMD

As stated, I downloaded the latest drivers. My catalyst was 13.1, now I'm at 13.2 (beta). Because the catalyst center doesn't have an auto update feature
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a c 136 B Homebuilt system
February 26, 2013 3:03:42 AM

There are lots of places to download the drivers . From your card makers website ...

Use the AMD ones

Did you clean out all the old drivers as i suggested earlier?
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February 26, 2013 3:08:53 AM

Outlander_04 said:
There are lots of places to download the drivers . From your card makers website ...

Use the AMD ones

Did you clean out all the old drivers as i suggested earlier?

Evidently I downloaded the drivers from AMD.com directly.
Also, the old drivers were completely removed hours before my 7970 arrived at my door step.

I ran another benchmark after my 13.1 update, and 13.2 update. MIN fps without AA and FXAA was 27, max 70, average 41.
:??: 
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March 10, 2013 10:46:55 PM

After much thinking, I can't seem to pin point my problem.
I just feel general stuttering sometimes, and when watching videos or doing regular things, there will be a time when things will just 'jitter' for a split second and the voice will repeat, the video will freeze, etc in that same instance.
I'm probably just going to drop my 8320 and go with an i7. :|

I want to get a new motherboard but I'm afraid it's not even going to help my 8320/7970.

I'm really upset and confused, because I have no idea what is causing my games to run so badly. :??:  :??: 
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