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Xfx 7950 and 660 ti

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January 6, 2013 2:07:48 AM

I just exchanged my 660 ti with 50 dollar for a xfx 7950 hoping to get a little better performance in gaming. This decision is based on the advice of the sales guy and the benchmarks online.


But I cannot believe how much my fps is dropped from using 7950 instead of 660 ti. I was getting 30-40 fps in smoke with 660 ti. and with the 7950, 30-40 fps seems to be the "normal" fps.


I don't understand this, I installed the drivers and everything properly, how is this happening?

More about : xfx 7950 660

January 6, 2013 2:08:38 AM

Im haven't ocuhed anything in the driver btw, no OC no changing power or anything
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a c 163 U Graphics card
January 6, 2013 2:20:11 AM

In what games is this 30-40FPS?
What resolution is your monitor?
What is your FULL system specs?

We can't help you without information.
If this is in Far Cyr 3 then its totally normal.
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January 6, 2013 2:22:39 AM

Sorry.

In Battlefield 3.
Maxed out everything, 1920 x 1080.
cpu = i5 3570k, psu = gs700. ram = 16gb.

is the same specs i had with my gtx 660 ti. And I have no idea why this is the case.
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January 6, 2013 2:27:38 AM

Hi..The HD 7950 is Superior to GTX 660Ti in EACH & EVERY RESPECT FROM RAW PERFORMANCE TO DRIVER TO PRICE...Don't have any confusion on that-YOU have made a very good choice.Now as per your issue:-

1) Download ATIMan Uninstaller
2)Download Driver Sweeper
3)Tuneup
4)C Cleaner
5)Download Catalyst 12.11beta11 & Cap 2
******

1)Turn Off UAC
2)Restart
3)Start ATIMan--->Use option 'A' for Automatic
4)System will restart automatically after driver removal
5)Select 'C' option --->Next Gen Mode from the ATIMan window that will pop after reboot in previous step.This option will clean trace files.
6)After cleanup..select 'Q' to quit
7)Now start Driver sweeper-->ATI driver--->clean
8)restart when prompted
9)Start TuneUp One click and clean
10)Start CCleaner-->Options Settings--->Select secure deletion--?complex overwrite 7 pass+wipe alt data stream+cluster
11)Except browser cookies & user assist history or like wise select almost all in cleaner-->windows/Application Tab
12)Now clean
13)Restart [***The procedure may seem exhausting but it's worth it.Your PC doesn't contain any possible junk conflicting non required files***]
14)Repeat 9-13 once again
15)Install 12.11b11
16)restart
17)Install cap 2
18)re enable uac
19)restart
20)Play your game at 60fps constant-If possible delete the config file of game /shader cache once .

HAPPY GAMING
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a c 163 U Graphics card
January 6, 2013 2:30:15 AM

hihiip201 said:
Sorry.

In Battlefield 3.
Maxed out everything, 1920 x 1080.
cpu = i5 3570k, psu = gs700. ram = 16gb.

is the same specs i had with my gtx 660 ti. And I have no idea why this is the case.


Mostly normal. BF3 is still a very intense game.

Is this in multiplayer or single?
If this occurs in large MP maps then consider a CPU OC.

But to be totally honest, maxing out EVERYTHING in BF3 you can't really expect to get much more FPS.

Consider this : The previous gen single GPU cards could not run BF3 in HD above a constant 30FPS maxed out AT ALL. So yes, thats what you can expect from your card.

Drop AA a bit if it bothers you or get a faster card.
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a c 163 U Graphics card
January 6, 2013 2:37:01 AM

BigMack70 said:
^^ Were you the salesman the OP talked to? :lol: 

Goofing around with atiman uninstaller is a great way to break things...

The steps in this post are vastly superior in every way to using ATIman uninstaller and/or driver sweeper:
http://www.overclock.net/t/988215/how-to-properly-unins...

And no single GPU can play BF3 at 60fps constant without turning some settings down.


Agreed.
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a c 163 U Graphics card
January 6, 2013 2:58:30 AM

Calmly waiting for a reply so I can wipe my arse with noobs and fanboys...

Please note I am a proud owner of an HD7950. BUT statements like those are not acceptable...
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a c 78 U Graphics card
January 6, 2013 2:59:18 AM



their latency testing method is atypical and unverified. Its an interesting concept that should be explored, but until other sites investigate and verify this approach, as well as if its noticeable, its not worth much. the whole 99th percentile thing looks very biased.

Also very suspicious they tested all new games instead of established ones but included skyrim, and not battlefield 3. Not something I'd trust when its contrary to every other review. Still the cards are very close, so not like it matters. Silly thing to site when the question is about BF3 and they purposefully left it out though
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a c 163 U Graphics card
January 6, 2013 3:07:14 AM

unksol said:
their latency testing method is atypical and unverified. Its an interesting concept that should be explored, but until other sites investigate and verify this approach, as well as if its noticeable, its not worth much. the whole 99th percentile thing looks very biased.

Also very suspicious they tested all new games instead of established ones but included skyrim, and not battlefield 3. Not something I'd trust when its contrary to every other review


My initial reaction too, till I did a few tests myself. Sometimes I was even able to notice the slow down myself. This in BF3, Far Cry 3, Rage.

I am not saying this is concrete. But I refuse to accept statements like the above. I still agree the HD7950 is the better card IMO but my point is also that the GTX660ti should not be discounted YET.

This 99th percentile benches could become the norm and from what I have read(every single comment and reply to date), their methodology is pretty damn concrete, just the idea is still foreign...

BUT as I said I have seen these latency spikes myself. And when you crank up settings where you are just hovering above 30 FPS, a sudden drop to 20 FPS is VERY noticable.

EDIT : Let me just make this clear, I used fraps and graphing tool to verify, did not just use my naked eye...
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a c 163 U Graphics card
January 6, 2013 3:17:29 AM

BigMack70 said:
Simply dismissing the TR article because you don't like what it says is the height of naive fanboyism...


Now that's not nice, not nice at all... :non:  :D 

I was trying to be subtle...

But yes, you have a very good point...
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a c 163 U Graphics card
January 6, 2013 3:25:10 AM

BigMack70 said:
I don't bother wasting subtlety on fanboys of any brand :lol: 

And I applaud TR a thousand times over for what they're doing... I have infinitely more respect for their methods than a site like HardOCP which tries to comment on "smoothness" in all their reviews but never even attempts to quantify it objectively. TR is at least doing some serious work to try and figure out a way to improve GPU reviews beyond the generic FPS metric, and they're absolutely on the right track.


I fully agree BUT I feel there is still a lot of fine-tuning to be done to convey the data in an article. Its close to impossible for most people to realize the real world implications of the 99th percentile metric.
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a c 163 U Graphics card
January 6, 2013 3:36:17 AM

BigMack70 said:
I agree, and I found this article quite interesting on the whole subject:
http://techreport.com/blog/24133/as-the-second-turns-th...

(Warning: it is a bit long)


Already read that. Glad to see that review sites are spreading the word on a new methodology. Would be awesome to see some confirmation from other sites...
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a b U Graphics card
January 6, 2013 4:30:40 AM

If u many time uninstall and install gpu drivers , os crash % is high .so clean install can fix this.
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a b U Graphics card
January 6, 2013 4:41:14 AM

It doesn't seem like anyone is still trying to help you find an answer hihiip, here's what I would do: begin by overclocking your card according to the guide of your choice (YouTube has some great tutorials, if you'd like one, I'd be happy to post one, just ask) Make sure to test with a program like 3DMark 11 and monitor your temperatures with your overclocking program (I'd recommend MSI Afterburner). Once you have achieved this, go for a quick processor overclock to maybe 4.4 GHz if you have not yet overclocked. This will allow you get the most performance from your card.

I currently run a 4.4GHz i5 3570k with an Asus GTX 670 DirectCUII TOP and I can average 75-90 FPS in Battlefield 3 on ultra at 1080p. The key to good performance from an overclock is the highest stable speed you can achieve at the lowest possible voltage. This may take a few hours, but it is more than worth it in the end.

PLEASE ask if you have any more questions, I hope I was able to stay on topic and help you with your issue. Note* make sure you uninstall anything relating to AMD's Catalyst control center/your graphics card drivers and install the latest from Nvidias website.
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January 6, 2013 4:42:35 AM

Actually I think that's the problem, when I was testing the game i had both amd and nvidia driver. I just uninstalled the nvidia and amd drivers, and im not sure how to install the latest amd driver for my card...
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a b U Graphics card
January 6, 2013 4:48:38 AM

I apologize I wasn't quite paying attention on that last part of my post, but you understood what I meant. You ave the Nvidia drivers gone, that's good, here, you can get the new AMD drivers: http://support.amd.com/us/gpudownload/windows/Pages/rad...

Get the whole software suite, it's like Nvidia's control Panel, just for AMD
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January 6, 2013 4:52:44 AM

mclovits said:
I apologize I wasn't quite paying attention on that last part of my post, but you understood what I meant. You ave the Nvidia drivers gone, that's good, here, you can get the new AMD drivers: http://support.amd.com/us/gpudownload/windows/Pages/rad...

Get the whole software suite, it's like Nvidia's control Panel, just for AMD



should I get the beta driver with net 4 support?

and can i just install the beta driver?
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a b U Graphics card
January 6, 2013 4:55:53 AM

You could, but you might just want to stick with the 12.10 driver just for the sake of newer game stability if the full driver isn't released for a while. It's your call, but the Catalyst Software Suite might be the smarter option.
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January 6, 2013 5:08:30 AM

thanks for you guys help. So i just installed the beta 12.11 driver, and im getting performance that's a bit better than before. But still not as good as 660 ti let alone better.

for instance, for 660 ti when looking at open envoriment with scope, i actually have increase in fps. but with 7950 i actually get lower fps.

im gonna try the catalyst software suite driver and see if it gets better.
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a c 147 U Graphics card
January 6, 2013 5:11:42 AM

BigMack70 said:
I don't bother wasting subtlety on fanboys of any brand :lol: 

And I applaud TR a thousand times over for what they're doing... I have infinitely more respect for their methods than a site like HardOCP which tries to comment on "smoothness" in all their reviews but never even attempts to quantify it objectively. TR is at least doing some serious work to try and figure out a way to improve GPU reviews beyond the generic FPS metric, and they're absolutely on the right track.


honestly i don't know why some people go raging when they see the review done by TR. all they did was present the data they get which is fact and people calling they being bias bla bla bla. Hard OCP acknowledge what TR did but they do say they can't carbon copy Scott method. they say if they must do i it must be something better or an improvement over what TR did (well at least that is what they said). and i think this is what Ryan at PCPer are trying to do:

Quote:
Scott over at Tech Report started doing that this past year and found some interesting results. I encourage all of our readers to follow up on what he has been doing as I think you'll find it incredibly educational and interesting.

Through emails and tweets many PC Perspective readers have been asking for our take on it, why we weren't testing graphics cards in the same fashion yet, etc. I've stayed quiet about it simply because we were working on quite a few different angles on our side and I wasn't ready to share results. I am still not ready to share the glut of our information yet but I am ready to start the discussion and I hope our community find its compelling and offers some feedback.

At the heart of our unique GPU testing method is this card, a high-end dual-link DVI capture card capable of handling 2560x1600 resolutions at 60 Hz. Essentially this card will act as a monitor to our GPU test bed and allow us to capture the actual display output that reaches the gamer's eyes. This method is the best possible way to measure frame rates, frame times, stutter, runts, smoothness, and any other graphics-related metrics.


http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/Frame-Ratin...
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a b U Graphics card
January 6, 2013 5:14:54 AM

Try that suite, maybe you'll get some better frame rates. Nvidia cards tend to have higher framerates in Battlefield 3 in general, some games (I believe the Dirt Series for example) have higher FPS on average for AMD cards, it's really back and forth. If you want more performance, I would really consider some overclocking, it's really a piece of cake once you know how to do it. A light CPU overclock will benefit you too, just make sure you have sufficient cooling.
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a c 185 U Graphics card
January 6, 2013 5:27:53 AM

Thomzey said:
a Radeon 7870 is compared to a GTX 660Ti
:lol:  who told you that
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January 6, 2013 5:30:56 AM

bigcyco1 said:
:lol:  who told you that

lots of places they have been tested and the HD7870 won %50 of the games that were thrown at it they are both equal cards
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January 6, 2013 5:38:51 AM

mclovits said:
I'm here to help someone with an issue, not hijack a thread with debate. As for that post^, a 660ti is stronger than a 7870 without question, easily a 5 frame difference in Battlefield 3: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-660-ti-...

thats only in one game and i was only correcting someones mistake
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January 6, 2013 5:57:30 AM

Well, SHOULD 7950 be getting better performance than 660 ti?


I am starting to feel like i wasted that 54 bucks to switch from 660 ti to 7950. lol


The thing is that, I get 7950 instead in hopes that I can reduce the drop frame during smoke and explosion. as I was getting huge fps drop from 60 to 30 with 660 ti.

but it seems that Im still having the same problem with my 7950, on top of the lower average fps.And It's too late since I will be leaving where Im at right now and will not be able to exchange again(not to mention the 15% stock fee if I do).
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January 6, 2013 5:59:14 AM

mclovits said:
It doesn't seem like anyone is still trying to help you find an answer hihiip, here's what I would do: begin by overclocking your card according to the guide of your choice (YouTube has some great tutorials, if you'd like one, I'd be happy to post one, just ask) Make sure to test with a program like 3DMark 11 and monitor your temperatures with your overclocking program (I'd recommend MSI Afterburner). Once you have achieved this, go for a quick processor overclock to maybe 4.4 GHz if you have not yet overclocked. This will allow you get the most performance from your card.

I currently run a 4.4GHz i5 3570k with an Asus GTX 670 DirectCUII TOP and I can average 75-90 FPS in Battlefield 3 on ultra at 1080p. The key to good performance from an overclock is the highest stable speed you can achieve at the lowest possible voltage. This may take a few hours, but it is more than worth it in the end.

PLEASE ask if you have any more questions, I hope I was able to stay on topic and help you with your issue. Note* make sure you uninstall anything relating to AMD's Catalyst control center/your graphics card drivers and install the latest from Nvidias website.



Thank you for your help!

The good thing with my cpu is that I have liquid cooler and I should be able to OC my cpu easily.
But the problem is that I am new to OC, I just built my comp as the matter of fact, so Im not sure how the increasing voltage work without damaging my gear.
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a b U Graphics card
January 6, 2013 6:00:05 AM

all said a 660ti and 7950 are the same tier and performance cards. however overclocked we know a 7950 would beat a 660ti as 660ti has limited overclocking potential or so i have read.
as for the fps OP is getting its perfectly normal i think. 40 fps in BF3 maxed out is what the 7950 is capable of. maybe it will touch 45-50 by overclocking it.
btw computer salesman are jerks who don't know a thing about computer hardware and its funny how they seriously try to reason how something is better than the other.
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a b U Graphics card
January 6, 2013 6:03:19 AM

I would say you SHOULD get similar, if not slightly better performance with you 7950, just slightly. It really depends on the games you play, have you tried anything else besides battlefield 3? If you really need to, just wait until the next generation of GPUs comes out in a few months and re-upgrade to like a GTX 770 or something along those lines in terms of performance.
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a b U Graphics card
January 6, 2013 6:10:37 AM

Well don't worry about your CPU for the moment, start with your graphics card: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBRbdECldQs

That tutorial should be sufficient for your purposes. Basically it's all about the lowest voltage:highest clock speeds ratio. Test with 3DMark 11 like I said, keeping Afterburner open to monitor temps for you while 3DMark runs. If there are no visible graphical artifacts or "glitches" when testing for a stable clock you are ok, and as long as the temperature doesn't go over maybe 90 degrees, you'll be alright.
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January 6, 2013 6:56:56 AM

Well, I have done everything I could. now even catalyst control center is rigged. it say s it "Could Not Load File or Assembly CLI.Implementation" and would not let me open it.


Also, I know everyone keep saying that I am supposed to get similar result, but I am just not getting that.

I am using the 12.11 beta driver already. I'm not OCing or anything yet. But neither did I for 660 ti. So I think its safe to say that stock clock goes, 660 ti is better than 7950 at bf3, and it is NOT worth the 50 dollar exchange. Don't you guys ever make the same mistake!( i got my 660 ti during sales too T T sniff)


I have the xfx double d edition of the 7950 btw. And I have another question, my brother told me that 7950 is a mid range card since "50" in 7950 indicates it is in the mid range zone. So does that mean I should have at least exchange my 660ti for 7870? or card with higher in last two digits?
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January 6, 2013 7:38:46 AM

I also just got a Bsod blue screen and I think it is defintely the card/driver. I have no idea what to do, I am leaving for good tomorrow and I spent 50 dollar to exchange a piece of junk. lol

Do you guys think a 15 % stock fee is worth it to get back to my ex ? (660 ti). lol

7950 is 309.99 and 660 ti is now 279.99. why have I done this to myself?
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Anonymous
a c 117 U Graphics card
January 6, 2013 8:15:48 AM

hihiip201 said:
I also just got a Bsod blue screen and I think it is defintely the card/driver. I have no idea what to do, I am leaving for good tomorrow and I spent 50 dollar to exchange a piece of junk. lol

Do you guys think a 15 % stock fee is worth it to get back to my ex ? (660 ti). lol

7950 is 309.99 and 660 ti is now 279.99. why have I done this to myself?



you can always bitcoin your money back . . .
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January 6, 2013 10:19:44 AM

Hmm lets see-YA MOST GAMERS ARE SURE ABOUT THAT-However about fanboys its hard to tell :lol: 

As for the post :-

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6393/amds-holiday-plans-c...

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/Catalyst_12.11_P...

Thats 1920x1200 7950 59.3-60 ][HD 7970 is 2-3 Fps more than 7950 sadly :whistle:  ]

Novuake Get your facts right son and for newbies sake don't post crap bench :sol: 

You might be facing driver conflicts between leftover nvidia files with amd drivers.Just give a try and again Happy gaming with 7950

http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/graphics/7000/79...

Read clearly the footnote and review section in the above page
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a c 163 U Graphics card
January 6, 2013 11:20:56 AM

chargedgod said:
Hmm lets see-YA MOST GAMERS ARE SURE ABOUT THAT-However about fanboys its hard to tell :lol: 

As for the post :-

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6393/amds-holiday-plans-c...

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/Catalyst_12.11_P...

Thats 1920x1200 7950 59.3-60 ][HD 7970 is 2-3 Fps more than 7950 sadly :whistle:  ]

Novuake Get your facts right son and for newbies sake don't post crap bench :sol: 

You might be facing driver conflicts between leftover nvidia files with amd drivers.Just give a try and again Happy gaming with 7950

http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/graphics/7000/79...

Read clearly the footnote and review section in the above page


Are you drunk?

I never said anything about the HD7970.

Does anybody see what this guy replies to me or am I insane???

Did you even read the TR reports?
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a b U Graphics card
January 6, 2013 4:15:57 PM

The fee is worth it in your case, I've never really been a fan of AMD cards, at least not in this series, Nvidia seems to have a bit of an edge this time around. If you can, buy your 660Ti back and enjoy the framerates, sorry we couldn't fix your problem, best of luck in the future though!
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a c 163 U Graphics card
January 6, 2013 4:31:33 PM

mclovits said:
The fee is worth it in your case, I've never really been a fan of AMD cards, at least not in this series, Nvidia seems to have a bit of an edge this time around. If you can, buy your 660Ti back and enjoy the framerates, sorry we couldn't fix your problem, best of luck in the future though!


NVidia has the edge and yet the HD7970 GHz is MUCH faster AND cheaper than the GTX680.

Riiiiight...

EDIT : The only place Nvidia is legitimately competitive with AMD in price to performance is GTX650ti, GTX660, GTX660ti and GTX670 and in most of those they are neck and neck. No where else, not above or below...

How is that "having the edge"?
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a b U Graphics card
January 6, 2013 5:14:23 PM

Personal opinion pal, that's besides the point, and don't compare the GHz edition to reference hardware, it's overclocked, just in a reference design. I honestly couldn't care less about which card is better, both companies' products have their flaws, I just think, personally, that AMD cards are somewhat lacking this generation, and they had to be overclocked to be able to compete more aggressively with Nvidia's hardware, not to mention the coil whine that many reference 7970's have that I can't stand, again, it's all personal opinion, you don't have to like it, but you might as well not argue with it.
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a c 163 U Graphics card
January 6, 2013 5:23:00 PM

mclovits said:
Personal opinion pal, that's besides the point, and don't compare the GHz edition to reference hardware, it's overclocked, just in a reference design. I honestly couldn't care less about which card is better, both companies' products have their flaws, I just think, personally, that AMD cards are somewhat lacking this generation, and they had to be overclocked to be able to compete more aggressively with Nvidia's hardware, not to mention the coil whine that many reference 7970's have that I can't stand, again, it's all personal opinion, you don't have to like it, but you might as well not argue with it.


Your opinion is invalid.
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a b U Graphics card
January 6, 2013 5:30:56 PM

Novuake said:
Your opinion is invalid.

Your perception of life is invalid, I'd recommend you try to exist harder.
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a c 163 U Graphics card
January 6, 2013 5:47:44 PM

mclovits said:
Your perception of life is invalid, I'd recommend you try to exist harder.


Sure... ;) 
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January 6, 2013 6:52:02 PM

BigMack70 said:
Don't bother with the fanboys novauke... just let them be

Anyways OP, some of what you're describing really makes it sound like your driver install is not clean. If you haven't already, I'd recommend going through both of these sets of steps and then reinstalling the 12.11 beta 11 driver + 12.11 CAP 2 profiles:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1150443/how-to-remove-your-n...
http://www.overclock.net/t/988215/how-to-properly-unins...

Also, why are you afraid to OC? It's not risky at all if you don't overvolt and the 7950 is the best overclocking card on the market. It would be silly for you to not at least download MSI Afterburner and boost your clock speed 100-200 MHz.




so if I do OC 7950 is a better choice over 660 ti?
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