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New testing method intro'd by TechReport/HD7950 VS GTX660ti

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Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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a c 179 U Graphics card
January 8, 2013 8:08:20 PM

Hi forum.

I would like to start a discussion on the topic brought up by TechReport concerning an FPS latency issue found on the HD7950 and possibly on all GCN cards.

Here are the articles and followups.

http://techreport.com/review/23981 [...] -revisited
http://techreport.com/review/24022 [...] -windows-8
http://techreport.com/review/24051 [...] peed-video
http://techreport.com/blog/24133/a [...] ng-methods

Now the internet seems to be only catching onto this now, TechReport has been using this method of testing for almost a year now.

Nvidia fanboys are loving it and AMD fanboys are outraged.
Personally I believe this testing method is still VERY new and not a good measure of real world smoothness just yet but I would very much like to see this investigated by Tom's and other sites. I also believe this is still something to be considered when purchasing these card.

AMD has made an official statement concerning this, vowing to fix this issue in future driver updates and CAPs(as the one for Borderlands 2).
IMO GCN is still a very new architecture and AMD is short n resources compared to Nvidia, they still need to figure out the nuances of GCN.

What is your opinion?
Which card is better for you do you think and why?
Does the FPS latency issue effect your choice in graphics card?

Please keep this a rational discussion void of fanboy ravings.

EDIT : Dag nabit! Should have made this a discussion... Can a moderator please change this if possible?

Another link thanks to renz496 :
http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/Frame-Ratin...

EDIT : 17-01-13. Latest update from TR. The release of Cat 13.2 is improving the latency issue.
http://techreport.com/review/24218/a-driver-update-to-r...

Another update from PCPER thanks renz496 :
http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/Frame-Ratin...

As I said in my reply, as far as I can see the only way to clearly really convey frame latency to the consumer is via high-speed video. Although this still does not make it very simple to understand the real word effect.

More about : testing method intro techreport hd7950 gtx660ti

a b U Graphics card
January 8, 2013 8:25:56 PM

Yeah anyone remember the VSYNC issues with the 600 series?? No need to panic that what driver updates are for.
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a b U Graphics card
January 8, 2013 8:31:30 PM

The Techreport has always been biased anyhow. The funniest things for me is that most of the reviewers compared a 600 series that has autoboost to a stock 7000 series card from AMD. Then everyone realized what happens when you overclock a Tahiti.

I honestly prefer Guru3d and Xbitlabs for reviews
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a b U Graphics card
January 8, 2013 8:33:15 PM

The title of this topic has been edited by Proximon

Sorry, looks like a forum bug is preventing the thread type change. It's usually easy to do. Ask me again later :) 
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a c 135 U Graphics card
January 8, 2013 8:36:19 PM

But as a reader of articles you have to kind of go through the fluff per say and understand what you can take away from it to sway one way or the other. I've seen the article for the 660Ti beating the 7950 however I know longevity wise the 7950 will probably hold better. For me I play a lot of nvidia games so I tend to like having a card that has a more full feature set for the games I play. The only feature that amd offers that I would desire is eyefinity so I feel I get a more complete product with nvidia at the moment. However if I wasn't playing games with physx I would probably be rocking a 7970.
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a c 179 U Graphics card
January 8, 2013 8:52:57 PM

Proximon said:
The title of this topic has been edited by Proximon

Sorry, looks like a forum bug is preventing the thread type change. It's usually easy to do. Ask me again later :) 


Thanks for the effort, will PM you later! :) 
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a c 179 U Graphics card
January 8, 2013 8:54:25 PM

bigshootr8 said:
But as a reader of articles you have to kind of go through the fluff per say and understand what you can take away from it to sway one way or the other. I've seen the article for the 660Ti beating the 7950 however I know longevity wise the 7950 will probably hold better. For me I play a lot of nvidia games so I tend to like having a card that has a more full feature set for the games I play. The only feature that amd offers that I would desire is eyefinity so I feel I get a more complete product with nvidia at the moment. However if I wasn't playing games with physx I would probably be rocking a 7970.


A very legit reason to prefer Nvidia.
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a c 179 U Graphics card
January 8, 2013 8:56:50 PM

redeemer said:
The Techreport has always been biased anyhow. The funniest things for me is that most of the reviewers compared a 600 series that has autoboost to a stock 7000 series card from AMD. Then everyone realized what happens when you overclock a Tahiti.

I honestly prefer Guru3d and Xbitlabs for reviews


I actually like TR a lot, but the selection of games used there are a little biased with the exception of Skyrim.
I respect TR for their innovative idea though.

Another site that I like for reviews are Tweaktown although they always neglect comparing OC with OC.
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a c 135 U Graphics card
January 8, 2013 9:01:22 PM

I would almost prefer if sites had a overclocking side of cards seperate from cards that are not overclocked. You get so much bias when you throw in well I have x card and when I overclock it goes beyond what the z brand goes.
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a c 179 U Graphics card
January 8, 2013 9:09:43 PM

bigshootr8 said:
I would almost prefer if sites had a overclocking side of cards seperate from cards that are not overclocked. You get so much bias when you throw in well I have x card and when I overclock it goes beyond what the z brand goes.


Yeah and its quite a lot of effort to try and compare the numbers if they are not in the same review thank to so many variables.
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a c 274 U Graphics card
January 8, 2013 9:20:00 PM

Novuake said:
Yeah and its quite a lot of effort to try and compare the numbers if they are not in the same review thank to so many variables.

One of those being the country that one may be in... :whistle: 
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a c 135 U Graphics card
January 8, 2013 9:20:48 PM

Oh yea most certainly there are some countries that have cards that are crazy mofo expensive.
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a c 179 U Graphics card
January 8, 2013 9:22:15 PM

Mousemonkey said:
One of those being the country that one may be in... :whistle: 


Precisely, pricing, room temps, availability. SO MANY!!! :pt1cable: 
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a b U Graphics card
January 8, 2013 9:23:06 PM

what about Kepler autoboost?
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Best solution

a c 274 U Graphics card
January 8, 2013 9:23:48 PM

bigshootr8 said:
Oh yea most certainly there are some countries that have cards that are crazy mofo expensive.

And then there are other things that one might want to do with their cards (F@H for instance, shameless plug :ange:  ).
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a c 135 U Graphics card
January 8, 2013 9:24:45 PM

lol monkey stirring up the drama in the pot with the brands :p 
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a c 274 U Graphics card
January 8, 2013 9:27:33 PM

bigshootr8 said:
lol monkey stirring up the drama in the pot with the brands :p 

How so? It was like that when I got here. :whistle: 
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a b U Graphics card
January 8, 2013 9:27:38 PM

bigshootr8 said:
But as a reader of articles you have to kind of go through the fluff per say and understand what you can take away from it to sway one way or the other. I've seen the article for the 660Ti beating the 7950 however I know longevity wise the 7950 will probably hold better. For me I play a lot of nvidia games so I tend to like having a card that has a more full feature set for the games I play. The only feature that amd offers that I would desire is eyefinity so I feel I get a more complete product with nvidia at the moment. However if I wasn't playing games with physx I would probably be rocking a 7970.



How many Physx titles are you enjoying anyway? Yes there are review where 660ti is a head, but what happens when you overclock. You stated that you want to keep overclocking spererate but that is impossible because of Keplers autoboost feature. The only thing I use Nvidia for is 3D and cuda btw!
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a c 135 U Graphics card
January 8, 2013 9:36:12 PM

redeemer said:
How many Physx titles are you enjoying anyway? Yes there are review where 660ti is a head, but what happens when you overclock. You stated that you want to keep overclocking spererate but that is impossible because of Keplers autoboost feature. The only thing I use Nvidia for is 3D and cuda btw!



I play all the big ones >< so I'm a awful person to ask.

Batman Arkham Asylum
Batman Arkham City
Borderlands 2
Metro 2033
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a c 274 U Graphics card
January 8, 2013 9:38:45 PM

BigMack70 said:
I'm actually a big fan of the work TR does and I wish that other sites would at least adopt their philosophy if not their precise methodology (I would hope other sites would offer their own flavor of frametime analysis and not merely repeat what TR is already doing). And obviously TR uses a pretty limited suite of games - I find it to be a balanced suite, but it's way too small.

More work needs to be done on conveying what some of their info, like 99th percentile frametime, means to end-user experience in specific terms, but I hope GPU reviewers are taking notice of what is going on over there... average FPS does NOT tell the whole story.

My real wish that folks like [H]ardOCP and others who comment on "smoothness" would start putting their money where their mouth is and actually make an attempt to measure smoothness. Every SLI or CF article [H] has written for at least a year makes some mention of how SLI "feels" better. However, IMO they might as well be saying the sky looks blue but is really purple, because such a conclusion often flat out contradicts their data.


I am currently running two SLi rigs, do I count?
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a c 135 U Graphics card
January 8, 2013 9:51:35 PM

Yea there would need to be more of a closer eye on things to justify saying it was smooth and non jittery.
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a c 179 U Graphics card
January 8, 2013 9:59:43 PM

Mousemonkey said:
I am currently running two SLi rigs, do I count?


I think you count. What is your experience? Have you had similar experience with CF?
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January 8, 2013 10:14:30 PM

Novuake said:
A very legit reason to prefer Nvidia.


PhysX isn't exactly a legit reason, exactly 27 games use PhysX and 4 of them are triple A so to speak(batman/borderlands, etc.).


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a c 179 U Graphics card
January 8, 2013 10:17:27 PM

darksparten said:
PhysX isn't exactly a legit reason, exactly 27 games use PhysX and 4 of them are triple A so to speak(batman/borderlands, etc.).


ANY rational reason to prefer Nvidia is a legit reason.
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a b U Graphics card
January 8, 2013 10:25:18 PM

bigshootr8 said:
I play all the big ones >< so I'm a awful person to ask.

Batman Arkham Asylum
Batman Arkham City
Borderlands 2
Metro 2033



Metro must decimate your card, Last Light hopefully has better coding
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a b U Graphics card
January 8, 2013 10:28:07 PM

Novuake said:
ANY rational reason to prefer Nvidia is a legit reason.



Arkham city has some nice Physx effects too bad that games is badly coded as well, there is no point having Physx enabled if you can't run max setting for everything else in my view.
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a c 274 U Graphics card
January 8, 2013 10:35:35 PM

Novuake said:
I think you count. What is your experience? Have you had similar experience with CF?

Nope, I know too many people who have tried CF to want to spend my money on it.
darksparten said:
PhysX isn't exactly a legit reason, exactly 27 games use PhysX and 4 of them are triple A so to speak(batman/borderlands, etc.).

Is folding a legit reason?
Novuake said:
ANY rational reason to prefer Nvidia is a legit reason.

:ange: 
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a c 179 U Graphics card
January 8, 2013 10:37:10 PM

BigMack70 said:
Metro's stupid DOF is currently decimating my 7970s at 1440p :( 


DOF??? Is it just me or does my HD7950 not seem to have this issue? I run at the same resolution ATM(friend dropped my 42") and it runs perfectly.
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a c 135 U Graphics card
January 8, 2013 10:38:40 PM

redeemer said:
Metro must decimate your card, Last Light hopefully has better coding

Actually no I got really great frames my playability was great I had physx on advanced wasn't exactly sure what the huge fuss with this game was graphics wise ha!

redeemer said:
Arkham city has some nice Physx effects too bad that games is badly coded as well, there is no point having Physx enabled if you can't run max setting for everything else in my view.

The game has become a lot better over time MUCH better. At release any card that was out in DX11 could not handle it I have frames to show Its fine. And I'll be honest I like the Physx effects a bit more in Asylum.

Also this is just for me personally and I think people need to get through there heads this. For different people they will benefit from different solutions there isn't one perfect solution for everyone saying AMD, or NVIDIA or go home isn't a answer its a uneducated response. For me Nvidia provides what I need I have had AMD/ATi and have loved there solutions. Plus you lose a argument the second you show bias.



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a c 179 U Graphics card
January 8, 2013 10:41:11 PM

Mousemonkey said:
Nope, I know too many people who have tried CF to want to spend my money on it.

Is folding a legit reason?

:ange: 


Haha stop trolling damit... I guess it could be... If you feel like giving back to humanity in the most distant way possible...

Does folding favour Nvidia? Havn't bothered reading much about it. Know what it is but I am not aware as to what HW is needed or preferred.
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a c 135 U Graphics card
January 8, 2013 10:42:18 PM

You can only use folding with Nvidia that is why he says it haha
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a c 179 U Graphics card
January 8, 2013 10:43:43 PM

bigshootr8 said:
Actually no I got really great frames my playability was great I had physx on advanced wasn't exactly sure what the huge fuss with this game was graphics wise ha!


The game has become a lot better over time MUCH better. At release any card that was out in DX11 could not handle it I have frames to show Its fine. And I'll be honest I like the Physx effects a bit more in Asylum.

Also this is just for me personally and I think people need to get through there heads this. For different people they will benefit from different solutions there isn't one perfect solution for everyone saying AMD, or NVIDIA or go home isn't a answer its a uneducated response. For me Nvidia provides what I need I have had AMD/ATi and have loved there solutions. Plus you lose a argument the second you show bias.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l249/bigshootr8/BatmanAC2012-10-1517-56-33-91_zps99b41277.png
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l249/bigshootr8/10-15-20125-53-00PM_zps8365fc91.png
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l249/bigshootr8/10-15-20125-52-42PM_zpsfd894af9.png



That's true enough! LOL

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a c 135 U Graphics card
January 8, 2013 10:45:36 PM

Learned that when I took public speaking in college scariest class ever.
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a c 179 U Graphics card
January 8, 2013 10:46:06 PM

bigshootr8 said:
You can only use folding with Nvidia that is why he says it haha


Haha NOW THAT is hilarious!

So help humanity with complex cloud calculations BUT do it ONLY with Nvidia! "The way its meant to be"...
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a c 179 U Graphics card
January 8, 2013 10:46:52 PM

bigshootr8 said:
Learned that when I took public speaking in college scariest class ever.


I will sure as hell remember that till the day I die. Thanks!
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a c 179 U Graphics card
January 8, 2013 10:54:46 PM

djangoringo said:
Maybe amd will fix that with the "8000" series : http://www.techpowerup.com/178404/AMD-Rebrands-Radeon-H...

:lol: 


Shameful but I could not care less about the OEM market, if you are stupid enough to go that route, live with the rebrands...

EDIT : Just read some of the comments! LOL some people are so stupid. One guy is like "this is a new low for AMD". Yet rebranding is done by both parties when it comes to OEMs. Its commonplace.

Thinking back to the "GT3xx" series... Still wondering what happened there? A fear of the number 3???
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a c 179 U Graphics card
January 8, 2013 11:04:53 PM

Proximon said:
The title of this topic has been edited by Proximon

Sorry, looks like a forum bug is preventing the thread type change. It's usually easy to do. Ask me again later :) 


Wanna try it again please? A few thumbs ups are required...
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a c 135 U Graphics card
January 8, 2013 11:35:16 PM

Man do I ever hate re branding both companies have done it. yea the 300 series man what is the big deal nothing is wrong with the number 3. I mean hell 3 times a charm?
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a b U Graphics card
January 8, 2013 11:46:59 PM

bigshootr8 said:
Actually no I got really great frames my playability was great I had physx on advanced wasn't exactly sure what the huge fuss with this game was graphics wise ha!


really what are your settings? Because my 680's are not enough!!
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a c 135 U Graphics card
January 9, 2013 12:30:58 AM

I can reinstall if you want redeemer and post pics?
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a b U Graphics card
January 9, 2013 1:05:25 AM

bigshootr8 said:
I can reinstall if you want redeemer and post pics?



no not at all i am just curious about your setting thats all
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a c 179 U Graphics card
January 9, 2013 1:19:13 AM

AlienIsGOD said:
Now where would you get that kind of misinformation from? http://folding.stanford.edu/English/WinGPUGuide Google is your friend.


Mousemonkey??? WRONG??? NOOOOOOOO!?!?!?!? lol thanks but no comment ON TOPIC MAYBE???
:non:  :lol: 

EDIT : Ok not relevant anymore... Mousemonkey was not wrong.
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a c 179 U Graphics card
January 9, 2013 1:25:45 AM

amuffin said:
Question is, would you waste your money/time to fold on an AMD card? Because an Nvidia card 1/2 the price will outperform it in terms of ppd/watt. :kaola: 


Don't you start too... Haha mousemonkey really has a knack to get a thread high-jacked with minimal effort...
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a c 135 U Graphics card
January 9, 2013 1:39:33 AM

I installed it anyway I'll take a pic to prove my point. you and mack hate pretty hard on nvidia at times. I also reverted my CPU back to stock until I can take the time to manually overclock my cpu to 4.2 ghz without using the cheap one button solution.




With dof


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a c 135 U Graphics card
January 9, 2013 1:40:31 AM

To my understanding folding at home uses cuda where as ati doesn't really have a solution for it that is what I mean't I don't see any benchmarks with amd included. I didn't use dof I'll do it again and see what happens. Just did it it definitely changed the benchmark however the game still remains playable its not 60 FPS but its playable
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a c 109 U Graphics card
January 9, 2013 4:37:39 AM

bigshootr8 said:
To my understanding folding at home uses cuda where as ati doesn't really have a solution for it that is what I mean't I don't see any benchmarks with amd included. I didn't use dof I'll do it again and see what happens. Just did it it definitely changed the benchmark however the game still remains playable its not 60 FPS but its playable

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2011/04/26/be...

AMD sux for folding.
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a c 148 U Graphics card
January 9, 2013 9:57:41 AM

well talking about the thread topic did you guys already read this:

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/Frame-Ratin...

PCPer definitely interested in this frame latency stuff and it seems they have their own method in capturing the needed data. right now they are trying to get feedback from the community first before they really employ this frame latencies stuff into their testing suite
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