2 HD 7770s or 1 HD 7870?

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thedigitaldoom

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So I'm planning a new build in a couple weeks and considering which components to buy. I want a screaming gaming machine that has no problems with most any game on the market on ultra settings.

I've boiled m choices for a CPU down to either a i7-2700K or i5-3570K. I like the i7 better but would get $40 off on a MB by buying the i5, so it's going to be a last minute decision I think. Probably make my choice in the store.

I am planning to get a motherboard capable of 4X Crossfire...if that helps.

What I'm really stuck on is the GPU purchase. I know for certain I am sticking with AMD so Nvidia suggestions are useless to me. I can get a HD 7770 for right around $100, while a HD 7870 would be closer to $250-$300.

Would 2 HD 7770s in Crossfire be a better setup than 1 HD 7870?

I am trying to decide the best value while considering 4 factors:

1) Best performance for current and future games (The future is unpredictable I know)

2) Overall cost

3) Some upgrading over the coming years is possible

4) This build must last 3 years or so

I have a budget of around $250 or so for the GPU now and may be able to add another $250-$300 within the next 3-6 months....hopefully prices will be lower by then.

I'm swinging more toward the 7870 and then adding another down the road, but if I could save now on the GPU cost it would allow for a better CPU. The ability to Crossfire 4 GPUs keeps bringing me to the thought of 4 HD 7770s over the coming year which would be easier (for me) to do than adding a 2nd HD 7870.

Anyway...I would love to see your thoughts on my upcoming build and get some input from folks with a little more knowledge.

 
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I'm still singing the 7950 in terms of recommendation from AMD. You get more ram a higher memory bit lane and 7950's typically are regarded as great overclocking cards however keep in mind this will vary from card to card. Get the best card you can get if you can get a 7950 get it skip the mid range cards 7850, 7870 and get a high end card if you can the 7950,7970 and call it a day :)

thedigitaldoom

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I got a i5-2500K for my last build because everyone said the same thing as you are (i5>i7 for gaming). However, when I looked at gaming benchmarks the i7 actually did outperform the i5 with the same GPU setup...hence I'm considering an i7 for my next build.

I definitely get what you're saying about not building with Xfire and using it as upgrade path. That makes sense for sure! I will probably go with the 7870 and buy another later on.

Any other GPU I should consider besides the 7870? I saw a 7970 but not really sure what that's all about (price is way out of my range too I'm sure)
 

Viridian112

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I have an XFX 7950, it's been amazing in most things I've thrown at it. The new Catalyst drivers elimanate all the 79xx-related bollockry of the past like micro-stuttering, plus it's a great option for CF.

It's more expensive than the 7870, but much less expensive than the 7970, I doubt you'd be dissatisfied with your purchase.
 
I feel if you are strictly using your computer for gaming and maybe watching videos I would stick with the i5 3570k. You will see diminished gaming results beyond that chip. I would say the 7950 is the better option for you. I wouldn't go off purchasing a crossfire configuration unless you needed it I would get the best card you could get which will provide you the best stability firstly and foremost and then if you needed more in the future you could expand with a 2nd one when the prices reach lower.

Here is a list of 7870's and 7950's and the price adjusted to lowest on top expensive on the bottom.
http://pcpartpicker.com/parts/video-card/#c=82,71&r=3072,2048&sort=a5
 

thedigitaldoom

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I feel if you are strictly using your computer for gaming and maybe watching videos I would stick with the i5 3570k. You will see diminished gaming results beyond that chip. I would say the 7950 is the better option for you. I wouldn't go off purchasing a crossfire configuration unless you needed it I would get the best card you could get which will provide you the best stability firstly and foremost and then if you needed more in the future you could expand with a 2nd one when the prices reach lower.

You are mostly correct. Other than a little bit of basic Wordpress stuff on my blog (which is about gaming) and the occasional Youtube video, my PC is used for gaming (not the Zynga stuff).

I can get the i7 for only about $50 more than the i5 though and so wonder if it might not be worth it at this price difference. Of course I suppose that comes to about $90 difference when considering the $40 discount on a Motherboard by buying the i5.

I've never seen that site before. Are those used prices or new? WOW! I'm really impressed. The 7950 will be the route I take I think, with less than a $50 price difference it's definitely worth it...judging by the benchmarks anyway.

I hope those are new prices...

EDIT:

BTW...thank you! Your advice has been very helpful in my new decision to go with the 7950! Still up in the air about the i7/i5 though...I know the pros and cons there, it's just a personal thing since I don't think there would be any negative result from buying the i7...even if it isn't a great improvement for my purposes.
 
Yes those are all new items :) It is the one stop place to figure out where cards are price wise. Also when you select a card or any other component it will show you the price over time and where it has been.

If you intend to do livestreaming, or recording, editing, or rendering it may be of use to have a i7 you don't gain much from a gaming standpoint but there are other uses.

And yes again they are new prices you are seeing correctly you aren't in best buy anymore :p
 

A Bad Day

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I would only get the i7 if you know if your favorite games support more than four cores. There were at least 17 games that supported hexacores back in 2010:

http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,794274/From-Medal-of-Honor-to-Civ-5-17-Games-that-already-benefit-from-six-cores-CPUs/Reviews/
 

Spaniard United

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Get the i5 3570k. Better architecture and TONS of overclocking room for squeezing the most performance out of your CPU.

7770 (and 7870?) has one Crossfire bridge, meaning that the most you can do it crossfire them. No 3x or 4x

1 strong GPU > 2 weaker GPUs
The 7870 will give more stable performance than crossfired 7770s and if you can afford to snag another down the road you'll have better performance with 2 7870s than 2 7770s.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-geforce-stutter-crossfire,2995.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/345818-33-radeon-7xxx-microstutter
 

thedigitaldoom

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Actually Microcenter is usually where I buy my PC parts from (usually very reasonable)...but your point is made.

Looks like I will be shopping some new sources from now on, thanks to this thread.

I do a little bit of editing, now that you mention it. Just some minor stuff for posting video on my blog and Youtube. So I think I am still going to go with the i7 as I may get more into video editing down the road a few months/years.

Again...thanks (to everyone) for everything! I think I have a bit more good info to make my decision now. I'll let you all know how the build goes once I get going on it. I'm sure I'll have more questions through the process and will be depending on the expertise on this site for help.

One thing that pops in my mind right now is about SSDs.....

I'm planning to buy a SSD for the build and wondering whether to go with a smaller one (128gb+-) and HDD in RAID. Or should I get a SSD only and buy a bigger one (500gb+-). I'm not familiar with RAID function or running a 2 drive system at all really and not sure the best way to go with it. Is it possible/beneficial to run 2 SSDs...one for storage and one for rapid access?

I know....that's another topic for another thread. Just thought I would throw it out there...it's been on my mind the past few days. I have so much to learn when it comes to building machines, I know!
 
I'm still singing the 7950 in terms of recommendation from AMD. You get more ram a higher memory bit lane and 7950's typically are regarded as great overclocking cards however keep in mind this will vary from card to card. Get the best card you can get if you can get a 7950 get it skip the mid range cards 7850, 7870 and get a high end card if you can the 7950,7970 and call it a day :)
 
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thedigitaldoom

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Hmm...that's more great info! Thank you!

I saw a motherboard that stated 4X Crossfire and assumed it meant 4 GPUs could run together.

As I said....I still have much to learn. This is only my 2nd build ever and the first one I would do much differently now than I did last year when I built it. I don't want to be saying the same thing about this build in a year from now.
 


When you RAID discs together, they must be identical. So no RAIDing a SSD and a HDD. Normally, nowadays, people get a SDD around 128 to 256MB to store the operating system and games and Word etc. on it. They get a cheap HDD with 1TB or so to store movies and music files etc.

You may be right about the I7. If you read today's Tom's Hardware article on best CPU's for the money, you will note that they removed all the dual core ones. The switch has been made by games to require a quad-core processor. This means it is only a matter of time that more will be needed. An I7 will help, not now, but in three years for sure.

And yes, the 7950 is the sweet spot now for AMD, as the 670 is for Nvidia.


 

thedigitaldoom

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Will do!

I hadn't even considered the 7950/7970 cards before this thread.

I was planning to go as inexpensively as possible but what you all are saying makes sense. Might as well pour in the extra cash for the best while I have it, rather than regretting my decision later on when making changes isn't financially feasible.

I will be shopping for a 7950 or 7970 from now on, until buy day. Like I said...the last thing I want to be doing 6 months from now is kicking myself for not building the machine I should have when I had the chance...like I am now for last year's build.

One more question on the CPU though (again, sorry, I know it's off topic here):

Would you recommend an Ivy Bridge or Sandy Bridge? I got Ivy Bridge last year (2500K) because I was exploring a new idea (for me) of Overclocking. My excitement has faded since then and don't really think I will ever much get into overclocking CPUs. It was fun for a minute, but the novelty wore off I guess.

So, I can get a Sandy Bridge or Ivy Bridge for around the same price (i7-2700K=$219 & i7-3770K=$229 OR i5-2500K=$149 & i5-3570K=$189). I know the Sandy is better for OC, but as I said, pushing the chip to the limit really isn't all that exciting to me (although I may like to do a little OCing still). I do have a new water cooler, but it's only a H60 so nothing extreme.
 

Spaniard United

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4x crossfire means it supports up to 4 cards. There are some cards with the proper connections to hook up all 4, but the 2 from your OP are not among them.

SSDs, from a cost vs storage standpoint, tend to be used by most as OS drives with more traditional HDDs used for storing the rest. You can RAID 2 HDDs or 2 SSDs and gain the benefits, but I would strongly advise against trying to RAID a SSD and HDD. RAID would work as fast as the slowest drive,negating your SSD and cutting the capacity of the HDD.

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/276907-32-raid-configuration
 
If you are starting a build from scratch unless you are trying to cut corners on a overclocking board and you were looking at z68 boards then I would go with the 3570k its faster then the 2500k not by much but it is and is a better value at the time and place. I would buy better fans with that water cooler by the way the unit runs fine as long as you don't overclock it to hard it probably has around the same value as a Cooler Master Evo does for overclocking.
 

Spaniard United

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H60 and i5 3570k = 4.0+ overclock and nice, low temps.

Another thing to keep in mind with Ivy Bridge is PCIE 2.0 versus 3.0.

3.0 is underutilized at the moment, by which I mean games currently use a little less bandwidth than the 2.0 and nowhere near 3.0. However, going forward this might change as newer more demanding games are released. Ivy Bridge (and the 7950) gives you some wiggle room for both today's games and games yet to come.
 

thedigitaldoom

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Ah yes, I knew that and forgot! I used the wrong term with RAID. I'm still trying to understand everything and terminology escapes me often. My apologies.

What you are talking about though...using a SSD in conjunction with a HDD for storing the OS and caching startup programs...is that only beneficial/possible with a small SSD and HDD setup? Or would it be something to consider with 2 SSDs...such as a 500gb SSD for storage and a 128gb for startup?

Does that sound idiotic? Would 1 SSD work just as well as 2?

Possibly I'm overthinking and over-stupidifying...a large (1tb+)HDD with a 128gb SSD might be the best solution for my purposes (and probably is). I'm just trying to sort this all out before I open my wallet. I do want to build the best machine I can for my needs, but want to avoid wasting money on unnecessary, frivolous items that are completely pointless.
 
It doesn't sound idiotic just not true. The SSD argument yes you can raid 2 drives for extra speed yes. However for the cost it isn't worth it. You are better off to get a 1 tb drive for example and having a SSD. The SSD will work with the OS and if you have the space running some programs. A 128 gigabyte hard drive would be good for the os and a game or two. It would help with loading and most importantly windows responsiveness which slows down games more then you think. Also your computer will start up much caster probably in the ballpark of 15-30 seconds tops given your system specifications. I would say get 1 large storage drive and 1 small ssd I have a 256 samsung 830 if that is out of your price range then a 128 will do. SSD's in general are a nice pick me up performance wise not something you necessarily something you need per say but something that helps.
 

thedigitaldoom

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OK...I'm looking at the Z77 boards (ASRock Extreme 6 or ASUS Maximus specifically) since my last one was a Z77 (ASRock Pro 3) and I'm totally happy with it. I definitely will have plenty of fans to go with the H60. My last build has a CM EVO in it now and I actually was planning on buying another one for this build but caught this H60 on clearance the other day when shopping for something not at all related. I got it for only $30, which is what I paid for the CM EVO so figured I couldn't go wrong at that price.

I suppose I will go with the Ivy Bridge. I wish I had some patience, I would just wait on the Haswell to release in June (reportedly), however I will never be able to wait that long before getting started on this build. I'm just too ADD to try and show that much restraint...LOL.

Thanks for the PCIe 3.0 advice Spaniard....it's actually something I had already locked into my purchasing decision. But it's nice to know you were looking out for me with the advice. It's probably nothing to concern with right now, as you mention, but 2-3 years from now it could be very important.

Thanks again to all who have commented here. It's nice to get some helpful advice and response. I'm so used to gaming forums where sarcasm rules and folks love to point out (and berate you because of) areas of ignorance rather than offering positive advice and knowledge. So great to be a part of productive conversation for a change!
 

Soda-88

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Quad SLI/CF is a terrible idea on non X79 platform due to lack of PCI-E lanes provided by CPU, you'd end up with 4x/4x/4x/4x on Z77 board unless you buy Asus Extreme V Maximus with PLX chip (waste of money, could get 3930K with a decent LGA2011 board). It gets worse when you plan on doing it with low end cards.
Stick with the 3570K/Cooler Master 212 Hyper EVO and a single most expensive GPU you can afford, preferably 7970, 7950, 670 or 7870XT in that order. 680 is a stupid buy at this time if you're on a budget of any kind because you can always do better than that.
Also Intel 330 180GB SSD is an amazing deal at only $120.
 

Spaniard United

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It wasn't said from the standpoint of the GPU which is already 3.0 but from the CPU. Sandy Bridge supports up to 2.0 whereas Ivy Bridge support up to 3.0.

Newer architecture, excellent OC headroom, support for PCIE 3.0, etc is why I recommended the i5 vs the i7.
 
Don't wait for Haswell. It will probably only be about 10% faster than Ivy Bridge per clock cycle. Its greatest usage will be for portable computers where it will draw considerably less power. Also its on-chip graphics will be doubled so it will be fine for some laptop uses. That will really save power, bypassing the graphics card!

But for us PC desktop users, Haswell will just be a nice thing.
 
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