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Budgeting for new $900-1000 Haswell gaming build

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March 5, 2013 10:44:29 PM

I'm planning on completing a new 'gaming' build in mid June, but buying parts as they come on sale between now and then. I want to wait on the CPU and motherboard until after Haswell comes out, so they (along with RAM) will likely be the last parts I purchase. I'll pull out 'the form' to keep this kosher:

Approximate Purchase Date: slowly over the next 4 months

Budget Range: $900-1000 after rebates (the closer to $900 the better, I anticipate sales taking care of some specific parts pricing)

System Usage from Most to Least Important: Gaming (League of Legends, Borderlands, Starcraft II, Company of Heroes, Sins of a Solar Empire, Demigod, etc. I don't currently have or play any of the major, newer games used in most sites benchmark suites.), Office Productivity, Web Browsing, possibly HyperV depending on final budget (built into Windows 8 Pro)

Are you buying a monitor: No

Parts to Upgrade: Everything

Do you need to buy OS: Yes

Preferred Website(s) for Parts: Newegg and Amazon are ones I prefer, but open to anything trustworthy if it doesn't create a hassle and saves money. I've also used TigerDirect in the past (~7 years ago). I wish there was a MicroCenter in my area, but the closest one (~60 miles away) closed down last summer.

Location: Northern California

Parts Preferences: Best bang for buck. Likely going Intel for CPU (Haswell equivalent to 3450) and, based off current pricing, AMD for GPU.

Overclocking: Probably not due to budget constraints

SLI or Crossfire: Probably not due to budget constraints

Your Monitor Resolution: 1920x1080

And Most Importantly, Why Are You Upgrading: As you can see from my sig, my current PCs are quite old and outdated. It's almost embarrassing considering the fact that I'm an IT professional.

Additional Comments: I also decided that I absolutely needed a built in external HDD docking station or hotswap HDD bays as I'm tired of having to open up my PCs every time I need to salvage data off another PC for friends/side-jobs.

Seeing as I will be slowly purchasing parts over the course of a few months as exceptional deals come along, I decided I needed to break down my global build budget so I had a rough idea of what kind of deal/price range I'm looking for in each part. So I'm looking for a little feedback on how my budget breakdown is looking.

Some additional notes on my plan:
  • This will absolutely not be a "pure" gaming build, so I am not even going to consider cutting the solid state drive out of my budget and changing to a $300-400 GPU.
  • I recently discovered HyperV in Windows 8 (through work) and really like some of the things it can allow you to do. I would therefore classify it as something I am hoping to
  • be able to run, but isn't an absolute necessity as it will likely necessitate a minimum $70 price increase compared to a PC that wouldn't run HyperV. (HyperV requires Windows 8 Pro and would be much better with 16GB of RAM than 8GB.)
  • I am absolutely including a solid state drive, and hoping for it to be of the 240-256GB variety. I want to be able to fit my OS and all my software (MS Office and all my games) onto the SSD.

    That said, here is my current budget breakdown:

    CPU: $190-200 (as noted above, Haswell equivalent to the i5 3450 is what I'm currently planning to get)
    CPU Cooler: $0 (included with CPU)
    Motherboard: $90-100 (I'm thinking I will likely end up with the Z87 equivalent to the ASRock Z77 Pro4)
    RAM: $70 (16 GB DDR3 1600)
    System Drive: $150 (hoping for a superb deal on either a 256 GB Samsung 830 or 240 GB Mushkin Enchanced Chronos Deluxe)
    Storage Drive: $70 (1 TB Western Digital Caviar Blue HDD. Could re-purpose an old 320 GB drive in a pinch)
    GPU: $200 (Thinking I will most likely end up with a 7870 GHz Edition)
    Case: $50 (Already purchased a Thermaltake Level 10 GTS for this price from Newegg)
    PSU: $40 (I expect a good quality 550W 80Plus Bronze model will be sufficient. Kicking myself for missing the deal Newegg had on an XFX PSU last week.)
    DVD Burner: $20 (likely to re-purpose an old drive to save money here.)
    OS: $120 (Windows 8 Pro on a sale is the hope here)
    Total: $1000-1020

    If I build this as a $900 build then the first things to go are the extra 8 GB RAM and Windows 8 Pro (drops down to Win7 Home Premium). That saves roughly $70 right off the bat.

    What parts do you think I could find for cheaper between now and when I hope to complete this build (mid June) than the cost I have budgeted for them? What type of adjustments (if any) would you make to this budget? Any additional thoughts?
    March 6, 2013 4:28:09 PM

    I do not believe you will need the dedicated graphics card as the haswell igpu will be considerably more powerfull than he 4000, which from the type of gaming you claim you will be doing may have been enough. Also it leaves room and the chance to save up for a dedicated gpu that will give you the most desireable experience. Another thing you may do without could be the ssd's size, as you will not gain any noticeable or largely significant gain in performance outside of your OS and possibly productivity programs. SSD's are nice but too expensive to use in a budget build outside of a boot drive. I enjoy your build plans as I will be doing the same this June. Best of luck!
    a c 287 4 Gaming
    March 6, 2013 5:17:44 PM

    If you're going to wait, wait. If you're going to buy now, buy now. There's no sense in buying now only to immediately replace the motherboard and CPU. The clock speeds and CPU numbers for Haswell are virtually identical to what's out there now.
    Related resources
    March 6, 2013 7:41:43 PM

    g-unit1111 said:
    If you're going to wait, wait. If you're going to buy now, buy now. There's no sense in buying now only to immediately replace the motherboard and CPU. The clock speeds and CPU numbers for Haswell are virtually identical to what's out there now.

    THanks for the reply g-unit1111.

    I think you may have misunderstood me. I'm only buying one of each part. I'm purchasing slowly over the course of the next few months so I can maximize my savings and value as each of the parts come on sale. The last parts I will buy are the CPU, motherboard and likely RAM.
    March 6, 2013 8:18:44 PM

    ManofDestiny said:
    I do not believe you will need the dedicated graphics card as the haswell igpu will be considerably more powerful than he 4000, which from the type of gaming you claim you will be doing may have been enough. Also it leaves room and the chance to save up for a dedicated gpu that will give you the most desirable experience. Another thing you may do without could be the ssd's size, as you will not gain any noticeable or largely significant gain in performance outside of your OS and possibly productivity programs. SSD's are nice but too expensive to use in a budget build outside of a boot drive. I enjoy your build plans as I will be doing the same this June. Best of luck!

    Thank for the reply ManofDestiny.

    I am currently running an nVidia GT 240, which ranks 7 tiers higher than the Intel HD 4000 Graphics on the Tom's Hardware Graphics Card Hierarchy Chart. "Considerably more powerful" is likely to gain them about 3 more tiers on that chart, which still leaves them trailing my current, horribly outdated GPU by 4 tiers. Even if it could match the performance of my current GPU i would rather build with a discrete GPU right off the bat. Once I build, I am not likely to have to money to upgrade anything for another 5+ years. I don't see the need for a card that is more expensive or more powerful than a 7870. If I decide to run a game like Torchlight or Diablo III, or anything else along that level of graphics demand then the 7870 would be able to handle it, right? Shoot, it looks like the 7870 can even handle Crysis 3 on high graphics settings with some AA enabled.

    Additionally, since I plan to be running this PC for the next 7+ years, I intend to get as much power into it as possible as I don't want my hardware limiting me in the future. I have built PCs with SSDs before, and I have seen first-hand the difference they make. If you are trying to squeeze the maximum FPS possible (in games like Crysis 3) out of a $800 or less build then yes, an SSD is unnecessary. I, however, am perfectly content with 60-70 FPS (my monitor is 60Hz anyway) and would rather not sit around waiting for programs, games, and levels to load. Therefore I have no need of a $300+ GPU. When most people say their computer is running slow, that perceived slowness comes from delayed program load times. I want my computer to be and remain fast, therefore I will be installing all my programs on my SSD.
    a c 287 4 Gaming
    March 6, 2013 8:53:46 PM

    Isaiah4110 said:
    You may have misunderstood me. I'm only buying one of each part. I'm purchasing slowly over the course of the next few months so I can maximize my savings and value as each of the parts come on sale. The last parts I will buy are the CPU, motherboard and likely RAM.


    Honestly if you ask me I don't really recommend taking that route on a build. I know that if you don't have the money to spend $1200 all at once I get that. However, if you complete a build and something doesn't work five months after you buy it, you will be SOL as most stores only allow a 60 day return policy for new merchandise. That's the biggest downside to buying one part at a time.
    March 6, 2013 10:06:14 PM

    g-unit1111 said:
    Honestly if you ask me I don't really recommend taking that route on a build. I know that if you don't have the money to spend $1200 all at once I get that. However, if you complete a build and something doesn't work five months after you buy it, you will be SOL as most stores only allow a 60 day return policy for new merchandise. That's the biggest downside to buying one part at a time.

    This is definitely something that has crossed my mind. I'm hoping to circumvent this issue by sticking with high quality reputable brands that offer good long warranties.

    If I buy a part and don't get to test it until 5 months from date-of-purchase then I may be unable to return it, but if the manufacturer refuses to provide any warranty support at that point then it probably isn't a brand I wanted to begin with anyway.

    Some parts (like the case I already purchased) I can obviously unpack and inspect (it looks great by the way, very impressed). I can't test out working parts (switches and wires) but I can look for physical signs of issues.

    For this reason I'm planning on making sure the PSU I purchase comes with a 5+ year warranty. I'm also expecting to stick with XFX as my GPU manufacturer since they offer lifetime warranties on the vast majority of their cards. Every RAM manufacturer I've seen always includes a lifetime warranty on their parts, and the CPU/MB will be my last parts purchased so I won't have any issues there. That pretty much leaves the SSD and HDD as 'risky' parts. In my experience HDDs don't typically have issues right out of the box. SSDs are a new development as PC parts go, but that's part of why I'm planning on sticking with top notch brands like Samsung or Mushkin there.

    Definitely a valid point, but I don't stand a chance of getting the all hardware I want within my budget if I buy everything at once. Right now pcpartpicker.com puts the parts I'm hoping for (substituting equivalent IB parts for what I'm planning on getting in Haswell parts) at a total cost of $1,111. If I can get them on the deal prices I'm hoping for over the next 4 months then I should be able to easily bring the total cost down to around $980. I am will to take that risk at this point.

    P.S. If you are interested in the rough build I am referencing then here it is. The one thing I'm afraid of is a Haswell CPU and MB starting out $20+ higher than current equivalent IB parts instead of replacing them on the market.
    a c 287 4 Gaming
    March 6, 2013 11:14:44 PM

    Quote:
    If I buy a part and don't get to test it until 5 months from date-of-purchase then I may be unable to return it, but if the manufacturer refuses to provide any warranty support at that point then it probably isn't a brand I wanted to begin with anyway.


    There's things you can buy now like case and power supply - those won't change drastically. If you go that route, get the motherboard, GPU, CPU, and RAM last.

    Quote:
    For this reason I'm planning on making sure the PSU I purchase comes with a 5+ year warranty. I'm also expecting to stick with XFX as my GPU manufacturer since they offer lifetime warranties on the vast majority of their cards. Every RAM manufacturer I've seen always includes a lifetime warranty on their parts, and the CPU/MB will be my last parts purchased so I won't have any issues there.


    I really like PC Power & Cooling because they have 7 year warranties as opposed to five and they make solid supplies. The new ones (Silencer MKIII) are built by Super Flower - they cost a lot more, but they are among the best you can buy.

    Quote:
    That pretty much leaves the SSD and HDD as 'risky' parts. In my experience HDDs don't typically have issues right out of the box. SSDs are a new development as PC parts go, but that's part of why I'm planning on sticking with top notch brands like Samsung or Mushkin there.


    Define "risky". I've had a couple of SSDs now from various manufacturers. I had an Intel SSD and it was a massive disappointment. I've had OCZ (Vertex 4), Crucial M4, and Samsung (830) and they have both been rock solid and very stable. I got the Vertex 4 for my work PC and it's worked great - have had no issues with it. I've been eyeing getting a Vector 128GB for my rig but that might be a long way off.

    Quote:
    P.S. If you are interested in the rough build I am referencing then here it is. The one thing I'm afraid of is a Haswell CPU and MB starting out $20+ higher than current equivalent IB parts instead of replacing them on the market.


    Nah. If there's one thing I've learned in my experience - the new generation doesn't cost any more than the current one, and if the current generation price drops, it not be in any way shape or form *THAT* significant to make a dent in anyone's budget.
    March 7, 2013 2:39:23 PM

    WOW! I did not realize how quick these forums move. Isaiah4110 I appologize for my perhaps misguided information/suggestions, as you may have noticed i am still relatively new to computers. But with haswell i have been researching a lot due to my plan is to build a $1200 gaming PC as my first actual PC with a lifespan of about 7-10yrs. Also the graphics card chart is very helpful, sadly i am limited to my netbook's GMA 950, so pretty much anything will be a significant leap in performance.
    March 7, 2013 3:07:23 PM

    g-unit1111 said:
    There's things you can buy now like case and power supply - those won't change drastically. If you go that route, get the motherboard, GPU, CPU, and RAM last.

    Exactly how I was thinking. I am expecting to get the GPU and RAM in late May, then get the CPU and motherboard as my last parts in early June once Haswell is released.

    Quote:
    I really like PC Power & Cooling because they have 7 year warranties as opposed to five and they make solid supplies. The new ones (Silencer MKIII) are built by Super Flower - they cost a lot more, but they are among the best you can buy.

    Very helpful information. I had never even remotely considered PC Power & Cooling as a PSU brand. I was pretty much limiting myself to Seasonic, XFX (made by Seasonic), and the better quality lines from Corsair as potential first tier options as I have heard a lot of good things about them and they come out looking good in various online reviews. I was contemplating OCZ and Rosewill as potential options as well since they tend to hit lower prices more frequently, but obviously wouldn't have purchased a model from one of them unless I found a good review or two about that specific model first.

    Where would you rank PC Power & Cooling's quality level? And is there any chance a >=500W 80Plus Bronze version of one of their good quality models will see a sub-$50 price on sale? (I'm really kicking myself for not grabbing a 550W XFX model when it hit $40 a couple weeks ago).

    Quote:
    Define "risky". I've had a couple of SSDs now from various manufacturers. I had an Intel SSD and it was a massive disappointment. I've had OCZ (Vertex 4), Crucial M4, and Samsung (830) and they have both been rock solid and very stable. I got the Vertex 4 for my work PC and it's worked great - have had no issues with it. I've been eyeing getting a Vector 128GB for my rig but that might be a long way off.

    By "risky" I was meaning parts that would be more likely to have issues and require an RMA.

    For HDDs I am planning on sticking with Western Digital and for SSDs I like the Samsung 830 or 840 Pro Series (not the non-Pro 840 models though) and the Mushkin Deluxe line. Samsung makes good parts and the 830 line has been around so long and reviewed so many times that there is not really any room to doubt their quality or performance. Mushkin's Deluxe line drives use toggle mode NAND chips and have gotten some really good reviews (and even been recommended in a few TH SSD articles). I've definitely heard Crucial has been around long enough that they have very well established their M4 models as a good quality SSD line, but they would fall one tier lower for me because (I know I'm being really nit-picky here but if I remember correctly) they use slower NAND chips and therefore don't give quite the same performance as some other models. I've been reading good things about the Vertex 4 line, so they might climb up my list as well by the time I buy an SSD.

    But really, the big difference maker is the fact that I have seen the 256GB Samsung 830 and 240 GB Mushkin Deluxe drives each hit the $150 price point in the past. I can't say the same for the Vertex 4 and M4 series.

    Quote:
    Nah. If there's one thing I've learned in my experience - the new generation doesn't cost any more than the current one, and if the current generation price drops, it not be in any way shape or form *THAT* significant to make a dent in anyone's budget.

    That's definitely what I'm banking on.

    Newegg is going to have the 1TB Western Digital drive I had picked out on sale for $60 this afternoon. It is a little earlier than I had anticipated purchasing my HDD, but I don't feel like the price is guaranteed to drop to $60 again before June. I think I'm going to grab one.


    P.S. WOW! I'm definitely impressed with the specs sheet and starting price of the 500W MK III PSU at a first glance! I think it just made it onto my price watch list and I'm definitely going to look up some reviews on it now. The modularity is a really nice bonus! Also, it looks like it is actually manufactured by Seasonic based on the TH "Who's Who" chart (model is PPCMK3S500). Same goes for the 600W model. Newegg does say it is a 5 year warranty though, not a 7 year warranty.
    March 7, 2013 3:14:38 PM

    ManofDestiny said:
    WOW! I did not realize how quick these forums move. Isaiah4110 I apologize for my perhaps misguided information/suggestions, as you may have noticed i am still relatively new to computers. But with haswell i have been researching a lot due to my plan is to build a $1200 gaming PC as my first actual PC with a lifespan of about 7-10yrs. Also the graphics card chart is very helpful, sadly i am limited to my netbook's GMA 950, so pretty much anything will be a significant leap in performance.

    Haha, yeah the computer world is still screaming full speed ahead. Don't sweat the advice though ManofDestiny. I would much rather have someone mention something I had already considered than not mention it because they assumed I considered it when I actually hadn't. I don't really expect any input I get here to be truly bad input.

    I'm definitely trying to follow all the news I can find on Haswell leading up to its release.

    Also, you are (obviously) welcome to use any of the information you glean from this thread and my final build as a baseline for your future build if you like.
    a c 287 4 Gaming
    March 7, 2013 5:01:29 PM

    Quote:

    Very helpful information. I had never even remotely considered PC Power & Cooling as a PSU brand. I was pretty much limiting myself to Seasonic, XFX (made by Seasonic), and the better quality lines from Corsair as potential first tier options as I have heard a lot of good things about them and they come out looking good in various online reviews. I was contemplating OCZ and Rosewill as potential options as well since they tend to hit lower prices more frequently, but obviously wouldn't have purchased a model from one of them unless I found a good review or two about that specific model first.

    Where would you rank PC Power & Cooling's quality level? And is there any chance a >=500W 80Plus Bronze version of one of their good quality models will see a sub-$50 price on sale? (I'm really kicking myself for not grabbing a 550W XFX model when it hit $40 a couple weeks ago).


    You can check out this guide and it will tell you what manufacturers use what OEMs: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/power-supply-oem-ma...

    I have the Silencer MKII (950W model) and it's a very solid and sturdy unit - I'd definitely recommend it.

    You only need 500W for a single card, if you want to run a dual you will need at least 750W.

    Quote:

    For HDDs I am planning on sticking with Western Digital and for SSDs I like the Samsung 830 or 840 Pro Series (not the non-Pro 840 models though) and the Mushkin Deluxe line. Samsung makes good parts and the 830 line has been around so long and reviewed so many times that there is not really any room to doubt their quality or performance. Mushkin's Deluxe line drives use toggle mode NAND chips and have gotten some really good reviews (and even been recommended in a few TH SSD articles). I've definitely heard Crucial has been around long enough that they have very well established their M4 models as a good quality SSD line, but they would fall one tier lower for me because (I know I'm being really nit-picky here but if I remember correctly) they use slower NAND chips and therefore don't give quite the same performance as some other models. I've been reading good things about the Vertex 4 line, so they might climb up my list as well by the time I buy an SSD.


    The Mushkin Deluxe line are good SSDs but they're also based on aging Sandforce 2.0 controllers. The Vertex 4 is a great drive, my work PC runs one and I've had zero issues with it. The OCZ Vector is the one I highly recommend as it matches or even exceeds the Samsung 840 Pro on most read - write tests.
    March 7, 2013 5:42:34 PM

    Quote:
    You can check out this guide and it will tell you what manufacturers use what OEMs: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/power-supply-oem-ma...

    I have the Silencer MKII (950W model) and it's a very solid and sturdy unit - I'd definitely recommend it.

    You only need 500W for a single card, if you want to run a dual you will need at least 750W.

    That is the first place I go when checking out a potential PSU candidate. Next is a google search for reviews (usually hoping to get a hit from JohnnyGuru or another site like that of course.

    I have tried to allow room to grow in each of my past builds, but I never actually end up having the chance to even so much as add a second video card. So with this build I have come to the conclusion that I will be better off saving the $20+ in difference between dual card and single card capable motherboards and PSUs and putting that extra money into getting a higher capacity SSD and the other parts I want so I know I will still be happy with this build 5+ years down the road.

    Quote:
    The Mushkin Deluxe line are good SSDs but they're also based on aging Sandforce 2.0 controllers. The Vertex 4 is a great drive, my work PC runs one and I've had zero issues with it. The OCZ Vector is the one I highly recommend as it matches or even exceeds the Samsung 840 Pro on most read - write tests.

    Have you monitored prices on any of those drive options? More specifically, would you happen to know if any of them have hit the $150 price range for a 240-256 GB model?
    a c 287 4 Gaming
    March 7, 2013 8:39:58 PM

    Quote:
    Have you monitored prices on any of those drive options? More specifically, would you happen to know if any of them have hit the $150 price range for a 240-256 GB model?


    Most of the good ones will retail for well over $200 for a 256GB capacity. I usually get a 128GB and a good mass storage drive. SSDs slow down once you load them over 80% capacity (doesn't matter what controllers are being used) so usually I don't recommend getting super high capacity ones for that reason.
    March 7, 2013 10:31:21 PM

    g-unit1111 said:
    Most of the good ones will retail for well over $200 for a 256GB capacity. I usually get a 128GB and a good mass storage drive. SSDs slow down once you load them over 80% capacity (doesn't matter what controllers are being used) so usually I don't recommend getting super high capacity ones for that reason.

    Would you want a larger drive in that case to allow you to install more without hitting that 80% of capacity mark?
    a c 287 4 Gaming
    March 7, 2013 10:36:54 PM

    Isaiah4110 said:
    Would you want a larger drive in that case to allow you to install more without hitting that 80% of capacity mark?


    That's what the mechanical HD is for. Mechanical HDs can take a lot more punishment in terms of read - write times than SSDs can. An SSD only has a certain number of read - write cycles in the drives' lifespan and they actually deteriorate over a certain amount of time. No SSD on the market is immune from this, not even the Revodrive.
    March 8, 2013 2:39:11 PM

    g-unit1111 said:
    That's what the mechanical HD is for. Mechanical HDs can take a lot more punishment in terms of read - write times than SSDs can. An SSD only has a certain number of read - write cycles in the drives' lifespan and they actually deteriorate over a certain amount of time. No SSD on the market is immune from this, not even the Revodrive.

    I thought from my research that it is the writes that deteriorates SSDs and that each cell in an SSD had an extremely limited number of write cycles. My understanding was that if you install everything onto an SSD and then leave it alone it would last much much longer.

    Excerpt from a Western Digital white paper on SSD technology:
    Quote:
    Multiple writes and erases to a NAND flash cell breaks down the oxide barrier over time, making it more difficult to "keep the electrons in place." Therefore, there is an inverse relationship between endurance and data retention — the more writes and erases, the shorter the data retention.


    I haven't found or read anything yet that stated this oxide barrier is also worn down by read cycles.

    Obviously I will not claim to know everything there is to know about SSDs and I definitely would love to learn more, so if there is further reading I could do (especially if it talks about read cycles wearing down NAND Flash cells) then point me in the right direction.
    March 8, 2013 2:49:24 PM

    I should also probably clarify that by "install more" I literally mean "install more programs". All of my data storage will be on my mechanical storage drive. Once my programs are installed on my SSD the only program and erase cycles it will see will be from program updates and new program installations. So the vast majority of usage I anticipate my SSD seeing will be software loading (read cycles).
    March 8, 2013 3:06:14 PM

    This is exactly my predicament. Will start buying now, and leave memory, GPU, CPU and Mobo for when haswell comes out.

    But, I am building a quiet mini-ITX living room gaming PC. If I were not, I'd go with IB as I have no intention of upgrading at least 3 years.
    March 8, 2013 8:59:41 PM

    markiz said:
    This is exactly my predicament. Will start buying now, and leave memory, GPU, CPU and Mobo for when haswell comes out.

    But, I am building a quiet mini-ITX living room gaming PC. If I were not, I'd go with IB as I have no intention of upgrading at least 3 years.

    Would the lower TDP (and therefore lower heat generation) of IB be more conducive to a quiet mini-ITX build than the higher TDP that Haswell is supposed to have? It isn't a huge difference, 7W, but every little bit helps right?
    March 8, 2013 9:34:40 PM

    Isaiah4110 said:
    Would the lower TDP (and therefore lower heat generation) of IB be more conducive to a quiet mini-ITX build than the higher TDP that Haswell is supposed to have? It isn't a huge difference, 7W, but every little bit helps right?


    I have read quite a bit on haswell and ivy bridge and although i was not specifically reading for the ammounts of heat generated, i do know that ivy bridge could tend to run quite a bit hotter that sandy due to cheap and poor performing thermal compound used in the Ivy CPUs. However, haswell is speculated to have fixed this simple problem and if nothing else is meant to be more efficient at idle and mid level performance use.
    March 8, 2013 10:54:28 PM

    ManofDestiny said:
    I have read quite a bit on haswell and ivy bridge and although i was not specifically reading for the ammounts of heat generated, i do know that ivy bridge could tend to run quite a bit hotter that sandy due to cheap and poor performing thermal compound used in the Ivy CPUs. However, haswell is speculated to have fixed this simple problem and if nothing else is meant to be more efficient at idle and mid level performance use.

    This is actually something I have been wondering. If Intel went back to the soldered on heat plates with Haswell than it would be amazing (and I would wish I had enough to possibly OC in the future).
    March 8, 2013 11:40:53 PM

    There have actually been quite a bit of overclocker forums and threads quoting the developers or leaks saying something close to or along the lines of "haswell has something in store for overclocking." so it is quite possible that baseclock-overclocking is coming back in some capacity due to the rumored separation of frequency controller, or the thermals have been redone to allow better performance limits. I hope it is both but that is probably just wishful thinking.

    This is a pretty helpful link for the OC differences on Haswell and Ivy/Sandy:
    http://www.hardcoreware.net/intel-haswell-base-clock-ov...
    March 9, 2013 7:28:55 AM

    Isaiah4110 said:
    Would the lower TDP (and therefore lower heat generation) of IB be more conducive to a quiet mini-ITX build than the higher TDP that Haswell is supposed to have? It isn't a huge difference, 7W, but every little bit helps right?


    Actually, Haswell will have somewhat lower TDP:
    http://www.engadget.com/2012/12/12/haswell-leak/
    Specifically, I'm aiming at i5-4670T with 45W TDP.

    I don't think there will be any performance gains, but I really don't need those anyway for my use cases.
    And connected standby is a nice feature as well, even with it's limited usefulness on a desktop.
    March 9, 2013 7:32:29 AM

    I don't know why I'm not allowed to edit posts..

    What I wanted to add is, sorry for partly hijacking the thread, I just wanted to point out what others have pointed me out, that there's not much to gain in waiting for Haswell if the machine is not going to be upgraded relatively fast (new socket), at least for classical tower PC.
    March 12, 2013 9:37:54 AM

    markiz said:
    Actually, Haswell will have somewhat lower TDP:
    http://www.engadget.com/2012/12/12/haswell-leak/
    Specifically, I'm aiming at i5-4670T with 45W TDP.

    I don't think there will be any performance gains, but I really don't need those anyway for my use cases.
    And connected standby is a nice feature as well, even with it's limited usefulness on a desktop.

    That makes a little more sense then. I was referencing the main Ivy Bridge line's 77W TDP compared to the main Haswell line's 84W TDP.
    March 12, 2013 2:14:46 PM

    g-unit1111 said:
    I've had a couple of SSDs now from various manufacturers. I had an Intel SSD and it was a massive disappointment. I've had OCZ (Vertex 4), Crucial M4, and Samsung (830) and they have both been rock solid and very stable. I got the Vertex 4 for my work PC and it's worked great - have had no issues with it. I've been eyeing getting a Vector 128GB for my rig but that might be a long way off.

    Thanks again for this info. As a result of your recommendations here I've been looking at some more SSD benchmark comparisons here on TH. It looks like, from a pure *benchmark* performance standpoint the 256 GB drives rank something like this:

    1) Samsung 840 PRO
    2) OCZ Vector
    3) Corsair Neutron GTX
    4) OCZ Vertex 4
    5) Samsung 830
    *bigger gap*
    6) Kingston HyperX 3K
    7) Crucial M4

    I wish TH had the Mushkin Deluxe line in their SSD Charts, but I'm fairly confident it matches up with the Samsung 830 or higher in most of the benchmarks. Unfortunately I doubt that I will ever see any of the top 4 drives from that list going for $150. But I will still be very happy with either the Mushkin Deluxe drive or the Samsung 830 (if it ever comes back in stock).
    !