A Tale of Two Architectures. Looking for some direction! Please Read!

[thecynicalmonk]

Good evening everyone,

First of all I have to say I'm thoroughly enjoying being a part of this community here at Tom's. I was an active member for years at other big name forums. I shall not taint this thread with their names .

I have to say I haven't found a more active, friendly, and well-rounded site as I've found here. As is customary I've been lurking for a while before posting threads, and I now have a couple of builds I would like to present to you guys. I'm open to any and all constructive criticism and suggestions! (Please bear with the format, I'm typing this out on my Nexus 7 tablet, lol)

First of all.... A little background on my needs and wants:

-I plan on buying and putting this together within the coming week.

-A meager budget of 850 tops (hence why I'm open to critiquing)

-The purpose of this build is gaming. Regular games being WoW, Diablo III, Minecraft, Call of Duty Black Ops II, Skyrim, and a little Dragon Age II. I also wouldn't mind dabbling in a little Battlefield 3

-I need a monitor, moving it completely from the cost is not an option, unfortunately.

-I seem to have a thing for the HAF 932 case, lol. I absolutely love it!... But if need be I can give it up for a worth opponent.

-I know I only have a SSD on some of these builds, but I plan on adding a tb in a few days after the build is complete.

-I like turtles. Lol... Jk


So on to the builds!

Victim #1: The lowly A10 APU ;-)

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: AMD A10-5800K 3.8GHz Quad-Core Processor ($119.99 @ Microcenter)
CPU Cooler: Zalman CNPS5X Performa CPU Cooler ($14.99 @ NCIX US)
Motherboard: Asus F2A85-V PRO ATX FM2 Motherboard ($130.98 @ NCIX US)
Memory: G.Skill Sniper Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1866 Memory ($52.38 @ NCIX US)
Storage: Kingston HyperX 3K 120GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($129.00 @ Adorama)
Case: Cooler Master HAF 932 Advanced ATX Full Tower Case ($140.72 @ NCIX US)
Power Supply: Rosewill Hive 650W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($79.99 @ Amazon)
Optical Drive: LG GH24NS95 DVD/CD Writer ($15.99 @ Newegg)
Monitor: Samsung S24B350HL 23.6" Monitor ($149.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $834.03
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-03-10 00:05 EST-0500)

Victim #2: A take on the FX-6300 (thanks to tenaciousk for the help!)

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: AMD FX-6300 3.5GHz 6-Core Processor ($119.99 @ Microcenter)
Motherboard: ASRock 970 EXTREME4 ATX AM3+ Motherboard ($97.87 @ Newegg)
Memory: Kingston HyperX 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($39.99 @ NCIX US)
Storage: Kingston HyperX 3K 120GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($128.60 @ Amazon)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 650 2GB Video Card ($139.99 @ Microcenter)
Case: Cooler Master HAF 932 Advanced ATX Full Tower Case ($140.72 @ NCIX US)
Power Supply: Rosewill Green 530W 80 PLUS Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($47.98 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: LG GH24NS95 DVD/CD Writer ($15.99 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8 (OEM) (64-bit) ($89.98 @ Outlet PC)
Monitor: Samsung S24B350HL 23.6" Monitor ($149.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $971.10
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-03-10 00:06 EST-0500)

Thanks for reading! Looking forward to your responses!

 

[thecynicalmonk]

I'm sorry if it's too soon to bump, but I'm getting a lot of views and no responses. Help me out guys, my deadline is in about 4 days

 

[manofchalk]

You got an interesting title and then it boiled down to this computer vs this one, thats why a lot of views and no responses :lol:.

Of the two, leaning heavily toward the FX-6300. If gaming is a concern, then limiting yourself to the "meh" CPU performance of the A10 APU isnt good. Its iGPU is amazing, but its still not that great compared to even low end dedicated cards, if you want to push up settings, a dedicated card is basically a must.

The build itself has a few issues though.
- That Rosewill Green PSU, very low quality unit. Rosewill have good supplies in their Hive and Fortress series, not in their Green and Stallion ranges. Would swap that out for something like an XFX Core 550W, or a Corsair CX500 if budget is really tight.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817207013
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139027&Tpk=CX500
- The low end Kepler GPU's are in no way competitive to the low end GCN cards that AMD offer, a 7770 is a much better bet at that budget.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102993

Worthy contender to the 932, the HAF-XM .
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119257
Or even further down the line, Storm Enforcer.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119240&Tpk=storm%20enforcer

 

[thecynicalmonk]

You got an interesting title and then it boiled down to this computer vs this one, thats why a lot of views and no responses :lol:.

Of the two, leaning heavily toward the FX-6300. If gaming is a concern, then limiting yourself to the "meh" CPU performance of the A10 APU isnt good. Its iGPU is amazing, but its still not that great compared to even low end dedicated cards, if you want to push up settings, a dedicated card is basically a must.

The build itself has a few issues though.
- That Rosewill Green PSU, very low quality unit. Rosewill have good supplies in their Hive and Fortress series, not in their Green and Stallion ranges. Would swap that out for something like an XFX Core 550W, or a Corsair CX500 if budget is really tight.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817207013
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139027&Tpk=CX500
- The low end Kepler GPU's are in no way competitive to the low end GCN cards that AMD offer, a 7770 is a much better bet at that budget.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102993

Worthy contender to the 932, the HAF-XM .
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119257
Or even further down the line, Storm Enforcer.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119240&Tpk=storm%20enforcer

Lol sorry about the title, I like to get a lil creative! :-D
Lemme take a look at the price I'd be looking at, will post back in a few minutes!
Thanks.

 

[thecynicalmonk]

Wow! I really like the XM! I've always been a full tower case guy.... But this baby seems to have it all!

Unfortunately this puts my build only 30 cheaper.. Is there anything else we can trim without sacrificing too much?

Updated build:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: AMD FX-6300 3.5GHz 6-Core Processor ($119.99 @ Microcenter)
Motherboard: ASRock 970 EXTREME4 ATX AM3+ Motherboard ($97.87 @ Newegg)
Memory: Kingston HyperX 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($39.99 @ NCIX US)
Storage: Kingston HyperX 3K 120GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($128.60 @ Amazon)
Video Card: Sapphire Radeon HD 7770 1GB Video Card ($124.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Cooler Master HAF XM (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($120.03 @ NCIX US)
Power Supply: XFX 550W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($59.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: LG GH24NS95 DVD/CD Writer ($15.99 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8 (OEM) (64-bit) ($89.98 @ Outlet PC)
Monitor: Samsung S24B350HL 23.6" Monitor ($149.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $947.42
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-03-10 01:56 EST-0500)

 

[manofchalk]

Their is the CX500 as a cheaper PSU.

Cheaper but smaller monitor.
Asus VE228H 21.5". $135 ($10 rebate)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236100

Cheaper motherboard.
ASUS M5A97. $95 (10% Promo)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131873

Cheaper 7770, though you dont get as good cooling (which TBH doesnt really matter on such a low power consumption card).
Sapphire HD7770. $120 ($15 rebate)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814202011

Could drop the SSD and go for a HDD.
Seagate Barracuda 1TB. $80
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148840

 

[thecynicalmonk]

Would a 500w PSU be cutting it too close?

Btw I'm updating my total, will repost in a sec. Its a lil slower typing and navigating on a Nexus 7 lol

 

[thecynicalmonk]

Ok, now it's starting to look affordable! Unfortunately I had to do away with the SSD and the HAF XM :-\
I also changed the PSU, GPU, and mobo as you suggested... I'm still clinging onto that monitor... Though, if it must go I guess I'll part with 3 inches. I guess the SSD will have to be a future improvement. Would you trim anything else?

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: AMD FX-6300 3.5GHz 6-Core Processor ($119.99 @ Microcenter)
Motherboard: Asus M5A97 R2.0 ATX AM3+ Motherboard ($84.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: Kingston HyperX 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($39.99 @ NCIX US)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($72.04 @ Outlet PC)
Video Card: Sapphire Radeon HD 7770 GHz Edition 1GB Video Card ($110.38 @ Newegg)
Case: Cooler Master Storm Enforcer ATX Mid Tower Case ($79.98 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: Corsair Builder 500W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V Power Supply ($39.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: LG GH24NS95 DVD/CD Writer ($15.99 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8 (OEM) (64-bit) ($89.98 @ Outlet PC)
Monitor: Samsung S24B350HL 23.6" Monitor ($149.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $803.32
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-03-10 03:46 EDT-0400)

 

[DarkSable]

This is for gaming? You want a considerably more powerful video card - ideally you want the 7870XT, which will cost $220.

You can get a 1080p monitor for $50 less, and can drop the Optical Drive if it's only to install windows with - you can do it with a USB stick.

I might also consider dropping down to a $50 case if you need to put that towards the video card - a 7770 won't really do what you're looking for.

 

[thecynicalmonk]

This is for gaming? You want a considerably more powerful video card - ideally you want the 7870XT, which will cost $220.

You can get a 1080p monitor for $50 less, and can drop the Optical Drive if it's only to install windows with - you can do it with a USB stick.

I might also consider dropping down to a $50 case if you need to put that towards the video card - a 7770 won't really do what you're looking for.

Would you go with XFX or HIS?

 

[DarkSable]

Neither of those.

You want the 7870 XT, which is considerably more powerful than a normal 7870. (They're actually disabled 7950s.)

They're made by Powercolor and Sapphire, along with one other company, I think.

 

[Outlander_04]

That hyperX RAM is 1.65 volt. FX should have 1.5 volt

use a $50 case and you can fit a Radeon 7850 into that FX 6300 build and game much better

 

[thecynicalmonk]

That hyperX RAM is 1.65 volt. FX should have 1.5 volt

use a $50 case and you can fit a Radeon 7850 into that FX 6300 build and game much better

Sorry, I'm sort of a noob at voltages. Will the FX chips not accept 1.5s? What's this I've heard about 1.65 v RAM being a CPU killer?

Btw here is the updated build. Thanks again everyone for all your help!

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: AMD FX-6300 3.5GHz 6-Core Processor ($119.99 @ Microcenter)
Motherboard: Asus M5A97 R2.0 ATX AM3+ Motherboard ($84.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: Kingston HyperX 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($39.99 @ NCIX US)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($72.04 @ Outlet PC)
Video Card: Sapphire Radeon HD 7870 XT 2GB Video Card ($234.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Cooler Master HAF 912 ATX Mid Tower Case ($49.99 @ NCIX US)
Power Supply: Corsair Builder 500W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V Power Supply ($39.99 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8 (OEM) (64-bit) ($89.98 @ Outlet PC)
Monitor: Asus VS228H-P 21.5" Monitor ($132.58 @ Newegg)
Total: $864.54
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-03-10 05:08 EDT-0400)

 

[Robert Pankiw]

I think Club3D makes XT / LE 7870s.

You guys keep cutting parts to make room for more graphics power. I get that that is important, because at the end of the day, he will be staring at what's on the monitor, but if he isn't happy with the other components, it's more of a hassle to upgrade a case than it is to upgrade a video card (Opinion, not fact). If he is willing to drop graphics settings, he should be able to MORE than play any of those games. Even at high settings, the 7770 GHz can play BF3, albeit kissing 30 FPS (Youtube videos or review sites say as much) which might not, or might, be what he wants, considering his budget.


If absolute performance is more important, then go with the 7870 XT / LE, I agree with that, but if you demand a nice case etc. then it might be out of your budget.

 

[thecynicalmonk]

I think Club3D makes XT / LE 7870s.

You guys keep cutting parts to make room for more graphics power. I get that that is important, because at the end of the day, he will be staring at what's on the monitor, but if he isn't happy with the other components, it's more of a hassle to upgrade a case than it is to upgrade a video card (Opinion, not fact). If he is willing to drop graphics settings, he should be able to MORE than play any of those games. Even at high settings, the 7770 GHz can play BF3, albeit kissing 30 FPS (Youtube videos or review sites say as much) which might not, or might, be what he wants, considering his budget.


If absolute performance is more important, then go with the 7870 XT / LE, I agree with that, but if you demand a nice case etc. then it might be out of your budget.

Lol thanks for the concern... I was starting to sweat cutting so much out of my rig... But I'm happy with the HAF 912 I think... I just have to be practical :-\ and that's what they are helping me with...

As far as the RAM voltage, why must it be 1.5?

 

[FinneousPJ]

I never heard AMD FX is as picky as Intel regarding RAM voltages. Can you give a quote on that, outlander?

 

[thecynicalmonk]

I never heard AMD FX is as picky as Intel regarding RAM voltages. Can you give a quote on that, outlander?

A post at PCPartPicker says otherwise... Though it's just small thread talk and nothing official... They make it sound like it's just a bunch of unneeded hype.

Source: http://pcpartpicker.com/b/A7r#cx17215

 

[Outlander_04]

I never heard AMD FX is as picky as Intel regarding RAM voltages. Can you give a quote on that, outlander?

FX processors are probably not as easily fried by that volatge as an IB intel would be , and may even hold up better than a 32nm SB intel

But if AMD say use 1.5 volt thats good enough for me
Besides , 1.65 volt has to be lower quality chips , or it would hold those speeds and timings at a lower voltage

Microcenter processor/mb bundle with the ASUS M5A97 R2.0 for $175
http://www.microcenter.com/site/products/amd_bundles.aspx

Now you can afford 1.5 volt RAM

 

[thecynicalmonk]

FX processors are probably not as easily fried by that volatge as an IB intel would be , and may even hold up better than a 32nm SB intel

But if AMD say use 1.5 volt thats good enough for me

Besides , 1.65 volt has to be lower quality chips , or it would hold those speeds and timings at a lower voltage

Well that's enough to convince me. I'll make the necessary adjustments tomorrow... I'm about to pass out. Thanks everyone for all your help!

 

[thecynicalmonk]

Here's the updated build, it's really coming together now... Though it's taking some sacrifice :-\ Thanks to everyone so far that's helped bring me down to reality, lol.
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: AMD FX-6300 3.5GHz 6-Core Processor ($119.99 @ Microcenter)
Motherboard: Asus M5A97 R2.0 ATX AM3+ Motherboard ($84.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($47.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($72.04 @ Outlet PC)
Video Card: Sapphire Radeon HD 7870 XT 2GB Video Card ($234.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Cooler Master HAF 912 ATX Mid Tower Case ($49.99 @ NCIX US)
Power Supply: Corsair Builder 500W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V Power Supply ($39.99 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8 (OEM) (64-bit) ($89.98 @ Outlet PC)
Monitor: Asus VS228H-P 21.5" Monitor ($132.58 @ Newegg)
Total: $872.54
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-03-10 15:14 EDT-0400)

 

[DarkSable]

That's looking pretty nice - I think it's as close as you can get to golden.

You're probably going to want to save up to throw an SSD in there, but I was thinking - you could also go with, say, a 7750 and save up to upgrade to the 7870 XT down the road.

It'll mean putting more money into your computer in the long run, but it'll let you get the monitor and case you like.

 

[Outlander_04]

Here's the updated build, it's really coming together now... Though it's taking some sacrifice :-\ Thanks to everyone so far that's helped bring me down to reality, lol.
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: AMD FX-6300 3.5GHz 6-Core Processor ($119.99 @ Microcenter)
Motherboard: Asus M5A97 R2.0 ATX AM3+ Motherboard ($84.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($47.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($72.04 @ Outlet PC)
Video Card: Sapphire Radeon HD 7870 XT 2GB Video Card ($234.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Cooler Master HAF 912 ATX Mid Tower Case ($49.99 @ NCIX US)
Power Supply: Corsair Builder 500W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V Power Supply ($39.99 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8 (OEM) (64-bit) ($89.98 @ Outlet PC)
Monitor: Asus VS228H-P 21.5" Monitor ($132.58 @ Newegg)
Total: $872.54
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-03-10 15:14 EDT-0400)

see the link in my previous post

mb and cpu combo for $175 at microcenter

 

[thecynicalmonk]

see the link in my previous post

mb and cpu combo for $175 at microcenter

Yeah, I saw it. Unfortunately I'm about 3 hours away from the closest Microcenter :-\
I think I've found the sweet spot, I'm just going to have to readjust my budget to accommodate.

By the way, I'm giving the best answer to DarkSable because he really shed some new light on my build and gave it direction. Also special thanks to manofchalk for the new basis of my build and Outlander_04 for his help with RAM voltages and stuff!

Thanks guys! This community is great!

 

[thecynicalmonk]

Best answer selected by theCynicalMonk.

 

[DarkSable]

Yeah, I saw it. Unfortunately I'm about 3 hours away from the closest Microcenter :-\
I think I've found the sweet spot, I'm just going to have to readjust my budget to accommodate.

By the way, I'm giving the best answer to DarkSable because he really shed some new light on my build and gave it direction. Also special thanks to manofchalk for the new basis of my build and Outlander_04 for his help with RAM voltages and stuff!

Thanks guys! This community is great!

*Bow*

Any time we can help, just let us know.