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Fed up with amd. GPU selection

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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January 20, 2013 10:00:18 PM

Hello,
I'm currently Running a MSI 7870 hawk graphics card. Though after I experienced quite a few BSOD while gaming I decided to check the dump files. I checked google for the solution and find more than a few sites that all pointed to how this was a AMD driver issue and that they haven't acknowledged the issue and the past five builds. At this point I'm fed up with AMD and want to switch over to nvidia. NOTE my motherboard is incapable if SLI (crossfire only) so I'll need a single card. Any suggestions as to a card that will also out preform a 7870. (I have a 550w PSU)

More about : fed amd gpu selection

a b U Graphics card
January 20, 2013 10:05:26 PM

Both sides have crappy drivers, hop on the GeForce forum and take a look at the whining in the drivers section.
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a c 109 U Graphics card
January 20, 2013 10:06:35 PM

Sell the card, get a 670 gtx, there's a few good ones, like the msi power edition, gigabyte windforce 3x, asus dcii, evga ftw and signature 2.
A 550w psu will do for any 670 gtx, but check if it's a decent one.
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January 20, 2013 10:45:50 PM

I'm willing to spend quite a bit as long as it works. In regards to crappy drivers, as long as I don't BSOD all the time. Lastly Ill hold onto the card as a last ditch backup in the future.

I've heard great things about the 670, anyone use the 680?
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a c 172 U Graphics card
a b À AMD
January 20, 2013 11:24:10 PM

gtx660ti or better would be an upgrade over the 7870. for a noticeable upgrade a gtx670 or 680 would be best. I actually just swapped from AMD to nvidia also, after reading some articles on higher frame latency with AMD cards, although this will be fixed to some degree with a new driver revision according to techreport. I have had a few amd and ATI cards in the past but I think i'll wait till they fix their drivers properly before giving their cards another go.
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January 21, 2013 12:49:18 AM

iam2thecrowe said:
gtx660ti or better would be an upgrade over the 7870. for a noticeable upgrade a gtx670 or 680 would be best. I actually just swapped from AMD to nvidia also, after reading some articles on higher frame latency with AMD cards, although this will be fixed to some degree with a new driver revision according to techreport. I have had a few amd and ATI cards in the past but I think i'll wait till they fix their drivers properly before giving their cards another go.




Don't mean to be a total noob here, but what is higher frame latency?
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a b U Graphics card
January 21, 2013 1:14:04 AM

jacobtmaas said:
Don't mean to be a total noob here, but what is higher frame latency?


Good question. Normally, frame rates, or how many frames per second the graphics card spits out, are what is used to measure the performance of a card. They simply run part of a game for a given time and divide the total number of frames displayed by the number of seconds. AMD tends to come out ahead in this in the majority of games for a given price board.

Latency is, perhaps, a more important measure, where they take a look at how long it took to produce each frame. Some frames are spit out real fast, others take longer. What they are finding is that Nvidia can put out frames at a more constant rate. Meaning even though AMD can put out more frames on average, many of them have taken a while, longer than the slow frames of the Nvidia card. This means that as you play a game, AMD cards will tend to "stumble" or have more slow frames are stuttering, while Nvidia won't.

This is something new being measured now. The effect is real. AMD was pretty bad but a new driver seems to make the problem better, but still Nvidia is better. Of course a triple set of 7970's will blast through anything, but this effect seems to give the Nvidias a smoother play per dollar advantage.

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January 21, 2013 1:17:18 AM

jacobtmaas said:
Hello,
I'm currently Running a MSI 7870 hawk graphics card. Though after I experienced quite a few BSOD while gaming I decided to check the dump files. I checked google for the solution and find more than a few sites that all pointed to how this was a AMD driver issue and that they haven't acknowledged the issue and the past five builds. At this point I'm fed up with AMD and want to switch over to nvidia. NOTE my motherboard is incapable if SLI (crossfire only) so I'll need a single card. Any suggestions as to a card that will also out preform a 7870. (I have a 550w PSU)


I recently bought two 2 Asus 660 ti after switching from AMD. Im extremely happy. If you arent looking for SLI then getting 1 will definitely make a difference. IMO I would either go with 660ti or a 680. The performance increase from 660ti to 670 isnt worth the money. But performance from 670 to the 680 is worth it. This is all based on my research on Benchmarks and Futuremark records. It all just depends on what you will be playing and at what resolution.
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a c 79 U Graphics card
a b À AMD
January 21, 2013 1:20:50 AM

babernet_1 said:
Good question. Normally, frame rates, or how many frames per second the graphics card spits out, are what is used to measure the performance of a card. They simply run part of a game for a given time and divide the total number of frames displayed by the number of seconds. AMD tends to come out ahead in this in the majority of games for a given price board.

Latency is, perhaps, a more important measure, where they take a look at how long it took to produce each frame. Some frames are spit out real fast, others take longer. What they are finding is that Nvidia can put out frames at a more constant rate. Meaning even though AMD can put out more frames on average, many of them have taken a while, longer than the slow frames of the Nvidia card. This means that as you play a game, AMD cards will tend to "stumble" or have more slow frames are stuttering, while Nvidia won't.

This is something new being measured now. The effect is real. AMD was pretty bad but a new driver seems to make the problem better, but still Nvidia is better. Of course a triple set of 7970's will blast through anything, but this effect seems to give the Nvidias a smoother play per dollar advantage.

Actually it varies by the card and configuration. For example, the 7870 tends to be "slower" but "smoother" than the GTX 660 Ti. Whereas the GTX 670 holds the edge in both categories vs. the 7950.

Also, frame latency is simply the inverse of instantaneous FPS (and max frame latency is the inverse of minimum FPS). So there is no need to use new terminology.
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a b U Graphics card
January 21, 2013 1:31:19 AM

What's your power supply (model and wattage)? I'd also appreciate the bugcheck details, so I can look for myself. You may also try updating your BIOS which can sometimes address incompatibilities with certain cards.
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a c 161 U Graphics card
a c 129 À AMD
January 21, 2013 1:38:36 AM

jacobtmaas said:
I'm willing to spend quite a bit as long as it works. In regards to crappy drivers, as long as I don't BSOD all the time. Lastly Ill hold onto the card as a last ditch backup in the future.

I've heard great things about the 670, anyone use the 680?


jacobtmaas said:
Don't mean to be a total noob here, but what is higher frame latency?


babernet_1 said:
Good question. Normally, frame rates, or how many frames per second the graphics card spits out, are what is used to measure the performance of a card. They simply run part of a game for a given time and divide the total number of frames displayed by the number of seconds. AMD tends to come out ahead in this in the majority of games for a given price board.

Latency is, perhaps, a more important measure, where they take a look at how long it took to produce each frame. Some frames are spit out real fast, others take longer. What they are finding is that Nvidia can put out frames at a more constant rate. Meaning even though AMD can put out more frames on average, many of them have taken a while, longer than the slow frames of the Nvidia card. This means that as you play a game, AMD cards will tend to "stumble" or have more slow frames are stuttering, while Nvidia won't.

This is something new being measured now. The effect is real. AMD was pretty bad but a new driver seems to make the problem better, but still Nvidia is better. Of course a triple set of 7970's will blast through anything, but this effect seems to give the Nvidias a smoother play per dollar advantage.


AMD and Nvidia have equal amounts of driver issues these days. Next AMD drivers are already fixing the issue,
Here is a preview.

http://techreport.com/review/24218/a-driver-update-to-r...

Swithcing from AMD to Nvidia is foolish if you don't get a considerably better card.

@OP what exact issue do you have with AMD cards? I am willing to bet it can be sorted out.

And here is a discussion on the matter of the frame latency.
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/forum2.php?config=tom...

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January 21, 2013 1:47:39 AM

A 660Ti is even with the 7870 performance wise.
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a c 161 U Graphics card
a c 129 À AMD
January 21, 2013 1:51:35 AM

CMac019 said:
A 660Ti is even with the 7870 performance wise.


STRONGLY disagree... In SOME games yes, but very few, mostly the HD7950 and GTX660ti are close with the HD7950 SLIGHTLY ahead MOSTLY.
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a c 79 U Graphics card
a b À AMD
January 21, 2013 1:58:32 AM

CMac019 said:
A 660Ti is even with the 7870 performance wise.

I would put the 660 Ti between the 7870 and 7950. Closer to the 7950 in average frame rates, if anything. But it is a little less predictable because memory-intensive scenarios nerf it pretty hard.
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a c 161 U Graphics card
a c 129 À AMD
January 21, 2013 2:24:49 AM

Sakkura said:
I would put the 660 Ti between the 7870 and 7950. Closer to the 7950 in average frame rates, if anything. But it is a little less predictable because memory-intensive scenarios nerf it pretty hard.


Agreed. AA especially. But those situations are fewer than you would expect.
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a c 229 U Graphics card
a b À AMD
January 21, 2013 2:39:06 AM

To my mind the 670 is the logical choice

Using HardwareInfo's test results (AvP High 4AA, Batman AC Very High 4AA, BF3 Ultra High 4AA, Crysis 2 Ultra High Edge AA, Dirt 3 Ultra 4AA, Hard Reset Ultra 4AA, Metro 2033 Very High, Skyrim High 4AA, Shogun 2 Ultra 4AA), and neweggs current prices:

660 Ti scores 566.0 fps at a cost pf $0.48 per frame
670 scores 650.2 fps at a cost pf $0.55 per frame
680 scores 711.2 fps at a cost pf $0.66 per frame

The 670 scores 14.9% higher than the 660 Ti for 14.6% more cash
The 680 scores 9.4% higher than the 670 for 20.9% more cash

This is borne out by sales. Here's what has hit steam servers as of end of December in % of entire market.....

nVidia GeForce GTX 670 - 1.94%
nVidia GeForce GTX 680 - 1.47%
ATI Radeon HD 7850 - 1.21 %
nVidia GeForce GTX 660 Ti - 1.13%
nVidia GeForce GTX 660 - 0.92%
ATI Radeon HD 7870 - 0.79%
ATI Radeon HD 7970 - O.76%
ATI Radeon HD 7950 - 0.69%



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January 21, 2013 3:48:07 AM

Novuake said:
AMD and Nvidia have equal amounts of driver issues these days. Next AMD drivers are already fixing the issue,
Here is a preview.

http://techreport.com/review/24218/a-driver-update-to-r...

Swithcing from AMD to Nvidia is foolish if you don't get a considerably better card.

@OP what exact issue do you have with AMD cards? I am willing to bet it can be sorted out.

And here is a discussion on the matter of the frame latency.
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/forum2.php?config=tom...



The problem is that I'll get into some games and can play for a couple minutes before the whole game freezes and I get a BSOD. (it's really bad in hitman absolution) the dumps point towards atikmpag.sys which googling pointed me to posts claiming it to be an amd driver issue. Now if I'm wrong great! Because other than the BSOD issue, I have been LOVING my 7870 and it's preformance.

Ps. I updated to the latest beta drivers and we'll see how it works.
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a c 185 U Graphics card
a b À AMD
January 21, 2013 3:55:05 AM

Both cards will serve you well.I would go for the 670 but it's up to you.
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a c 115 U Graphics card
a b À AMD
January 21, 2013 4:07:08 AM

jacobtmaas said:
Hello,
I'm currently Running a MSI 7870 hawk graphics card. Though after I experienced quite a few BSOD while gaming I decided to check the dump files. I checked google for the solution and find more than a few sites that all pointed to how this was a AMD driver issue and that they haven't acknowledged the issue and the past five builds. At this point I'm fed up with AMD and want to switch over to nvidia. NOTE my motherboard is incapable if SLI (crossfire only) so I'll need a single card. Any suggestions as to a card that will also out preform a 7870. (I have a 550w PSU)


I have dual 7970s and haven't had a BSOD in years across Windows 7 and Windows 8. There are a few driver bugs, but random BSODs are not currently among them. Before you jump the shark and spend money on a new card that may not resolve the problem perhaps you should open a thread here on Tom's so that we can try and help you with your crashing issues.
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a c 161 U Graphics card
a c 129 À AMD
January 21, 2013 4:08:04 AM

jacobtmaas said:
The problem is that I'll get into some games and can play for a couple minutes before the whole game freezes and I get a BSOD. (it's really bad in hitman absolution) the dumps point towards atikmpag.sys which googling pointed me to posts claiming it to be an amd driver issue. Now if I'm wrong great! Because other than the BSOD issue, I have been LOVING my 7870 and it's preformance.

Ps. I updated to the latest beta drivers and we'll see how it works.


OK well lets try and fix your issue first... Remove your old drivers FIRST, then do a registry sweep. Use like Ccleaner, will do the job.

Then restart, and install CAT13.1. If that does not help it could be that your PSU is not good enough.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xY9OCDgW-Gw

Have you tried the above?

AND this :

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/window...
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a c 161 U Graphics card
a c 129 À AMD
January 21, 2013 4:12:02 AM

Pinhedd said:
I have dual 7970s and haven't had a BSOD in years across Windows 7 and Windows 8. There are a few driver bugs, but random BSODs are not currently among them. Before you jump the shark and spend money on a new card that may not resolve the problem perhaps you should open a thread here on Tom's so that we can try and help you with your crashing issues.


Agreed, and IF we can fix it. Which we will be able to probably. HE CAN GO FOR SOME SERIOUS XFIRE with the money!!!
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January 21, 2013 4:17:02 AM

Novuake said:
OK well lets try and fix your issue first... Remove your old drivers FIRST, then do a registry sweep. Use like Ccleaner, will do the job.

Then restart, and install CAT13.1. If that does not help it could be that your PSU is not good enough.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xY9OCDgW-Gw

Have you tried the above?

AND this :

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/window...


Ok thanks! I'll try irst thing tomorrow as I have class from 9-12 tomorrow morning and need some sleep. What makes you think it is a PSU?


Here it is

XFX Core Edition PRO550W (P1-550S-XXB9) 550W ATX12V 2.2 & ESP12V 2.91 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC Power Supply

And a link: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
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a c 161 U Graphics card
a c 129 À AMD
January 21, 2013 4:23:14 AM

jacobtmaas said:
Ok thanks! I'll try irst thing tomorrow as I have class from 9-12 tomorrow morning and need some sleep. What makes you think it is a PSU?


Here it is

XFX Core Edition PRO550W (P1-550S-XXB9) 550W ATX12V 2.2 & ESP12V 2.91 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC Power Supply

And a link: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...


OK No not with that PSU, lol. Unless its faulty, which I doubt.
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a c 172 U Graphics card
a b À AMD
January 21, 2013 6:11:32 AM

i still wouldnt bother with crossfire, amd has made the frame latency better with new drivers, but crossfire is still a mixed bag of unpredictable FPS drops and stuttering, unless you want to set an fps cap, which kind of defeats the point of getting faster cards only to limit them to get smooth gameplay. Just stick with a single card and upgrade when you need to and sell your old card to put toward the new card.
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a c 79 U Graphics card
a b À AMD
January 21, 2013 8:53:25 AM

iam2thecrowe said:
i still wouldnt bother with crossfire, amd has made the frame latency better with new drivers, but crossfire is still a mixed bag of unpredictable FPS drops and stuttering, unless you want to set an fps cap, which kind of defeats the point of getting faster cards only to limit them to get smooth gameplay. Just stick with a single card and upgrade when you need to and sell your old card to put toward the new card.

It's my understanding that they also made it better with their 7000 series compared to the 6000s. I recall the 6850 standing out as particularly bad in Tom's microstuttering article. But it wouldn't surprise me if Nvidia are still in the lead when it comes to preventing microstuttering.
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January 21, 2013 6:48:31 PM

Novuake said:
OK No not with that PSU, lol. Unless its faulty, which I doubt.


Ok I got rid of the drivers, cleaned the registry, and installed 13.1
I'm going to test it for a couple hours and get back to you.


Ps. If this works you are my hero :pt1cable:  I did love my card but was pissed with the issues.

Also I'm assuming your a AMD user, so what do up you think of crossfire?
Is it as bad as people say or is it just the Nvidia fanboys being fanboys?
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a c 161 U Graphics card
a c 129 À AMD
January 21, 2013 6:57:44 PM

jacobtmaas said:
Ok I got rid of the drivers, cleaned the registry, and installed 13.1
I'm going to test it for a couple hours and get back to you.


Ps. If this works you are my hero :pt1cable:  I did love my card but was pissed with the issues.

Also I'm assuming your a AMD user, so what do up you think of crossfire?
Is it as bad as people say or is it just the Nvidia fanboys being fanboys?


I am an AMD and Nvidia user, but my main gaming rig has an AMD HD7950 at the moment.

I used Xfire with the HD4xxx series, back then my experience was mixed. Some games worked great while others not so much, but from what I gather this is similar in the Nvidia camp(have never had SLI).

As of late the Xfire on HD7xxx are much improved but lacking for the previous gen HD6xxx for newer games.

In my opinion you can fix AMD Xfire issues that you do come across by googling it or asking on a forum. They are not hard to fix, some are ofcors impossible if the game is just one of those games.

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January 21, 2013 7:08:07 PM

Novuake said:
I am an AMD and Nvidia user, but my main gaming rig has an AMD HD7950 at the moment.

I used Xfire with the HD4xxx series, back then my experience was mixed. Some games worked great while others not so much, but from what I gather this is similar in the Nvidia camp(have never had SLI).

As of late the Xfire on HD7xxx are much improved but lacking for the previous gen HD6xxx for newer games.

In my opinion you can fix AMD Xfire issues that you do come across by googling it or asking on a forum. They are not hard to fix, some are ofcors impossible if the game is just one of those games.


But if it is just one of those games you could run a single card instead of the duo right?
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a c 271 U Graphics card
a b À AMD
January 21, 2013 7:09:16 PM

Novuake said:
I am an AMD and Nvidia user, but my main gaming rig has an AMD HD7950 at the moment.

I used Xfire with the HD4xxx series, back then my experience was mixed. Some games worked great while others not so much, but from what I gather this is similar in the Nvidia camp(have never had SLI).

As of late the Xfire on HD7xxx are much improved but lacking for the previous gen HD6xxx for newer games.

In my opinion you can fix AMD Xfire issues that you do come across by googling it or asking on a forum. They are not hard to fix, some are ofcors impossible if the game is just one of those games.

In my experience most games work just fine with SLi, and those that don't support it natively can usually be forced to via the Nv control panel with Alan Wake being the most recent exception to the rule but then that is an AMD sponsored title.
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a c 161 U Graphics card
a c 129 À AMD
January 21, 2013 7:09:30 PM

jacobtmaas said:
But if it is just one of those games you could run a single card instead of the duo right?


Precisely. Simply disable the card and viola, no more issues.
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a c 161 U Graphics card
a c 129 À AMD
January 21, 2013 7:11:13 PM

Mousemonkey said:
In my experience most games work just fine with SLi, and those that don't support it natively can usually be forced to via the Nv control panel with Alan Wake being the most recent exception to the rule but then that is an AMD sponsored title.


Interesting. Not too buggy? As I said, never used SLI, so can't speak from experience. Just from what I have read.
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a c 271 U Graphics card
a b À AMD
January 21, 2013 7:16:26 PM

Novuake said:
Interesting. Not too buggy? As I said, never used SLI, so can't speak from experience. Just from what I have read.

As I said, the only one that hasn't worked for me was Alan Wake all the rest have worked just fine.
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a c 161 U Graphics card
a c 129 À AMD
January 21, 2013 7:18:20 PM

Mousemonkey said:
As I said, the only one that hasn't worked for me was Alan Wake all the rest have worked just fine.


I will keep that in mind when going for a dual-GPU rig next time... Too late now, lol will be xfire HD7950 soon.

EDIT : We stick to what we know, you know?? :D 
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January 21, 2013 7:35:23 PM

Novuake said:
I will keep that in mind when going for a dual-GPU rig next time... Too late now, lol will be xfire HD7950 soon.

EDIT : We stick to what we know, you know?? :D 


I don't know what sort of voodoo you pulled but now my card not only no longer crashes but runs at a good 15-20 fps faster. You rock :ange:  In regards to the xfire I think I may give that a try with the 7870s (I assume there's more than enough tutorials online)
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a c 161 U Graphics card
a c 129 À AMD
January 21, 2013 7:41:08 PM

jacobtmaas said:
I don't know what sort of voodoo you pulled but now my card not only no longer crashes but runs at a good 15-20 fps faster. You rock :ange:  In regards to the xfire I think I may give that a try with the 7870s (I assume there's more than enough tutorials online)


Haha all good man. Yes there are MANY! Glad I could help you.
Hope to see you around the forums some more.

Out of curiosity, you didn't need the fix on youtube or microsoft answers that I linked?

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January 21, 2013 7:47:36 PM

Novuake said:
Haha all good man. Yes there are MANY! Glad I could help you.
Hope to see you around the forums some more.

Out of curiosity, you didn't need the fix on youtube or microsoft answers that I linked?


No just cleaning the registry and updating to 13.1
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a c 161 U Graphics card
a c 129 À AMD
January 21, 2013 7:49:39 PM

jacobtmaas said:
No just cleaning the registry and updating to 13.1


Thought as much! Well enjoy! ;) 
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January 31, 2013 2:59:41 AM

Best answer selected by Jacobtmaas.
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January 31, 2013 3:05:10 AM

Aznova said:
I recently bought two 2 Asus 660 ti after switching from AMD. Im extremely happy. If you arent looking for SLI then getting 1 will definitely make a difference. IMO I would either go with 660ti or a 680. The performance increase from 660ti to 670 isnt worth the money. But performance from 670 to the 680 is worth it. This is all based on my research on Benchmarks and Futuremark records. It all just depends on what you will be playing and at what resolution.


The jump from the 660Ti to the 670 is one of the biggest in the entire 600 series line, next to the GTX650 to Ti jump.

Additionally, the jump from GTX670 to GTX680 is only 5-10%, and if you're going that high you may as well get a 7970GHz edition because the newer GHz 7970s destroy any single Nvidia GPU, especially at high resolutions or AA/AF.

Alternatively, a GTX660Ti is somewhere between a 7870 and 7950, though I'd reccomend a 7950 because it's insane value, 99% of 7950 can be OC'd to at least 7970 level with no voltage increase(your warranty is unaffected).
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