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Low fps with zero bottle necking......

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a b U Graphics card
January 27, 2013 5:30:08 AM

So i noticed today in skyrim that i was getting 50 fps with neither cpu or gpu bottle necking... I was consistently reading less than 50% usage on my gpu and less than 70% usage on any of my CPU cores. Why am i not getting better fps????Here's my build:

7950 @ Core 800 mghz Vram 1250 mghz
i5 3570k @ 4.2 ghz
MSI Z77 mobo
8 (4x2)Gb G Skill 1600 mghz DIMM's
900w Coolmax PSU
1 TB Seagate HDD
120 GB OCZ Agility 3 SSD

More about : low fps bottle necking

a c 187 U Graphics card
January 27, 2013 5:33:24 AM

helper800 said:
So i noticed today in skyrim that i was getting 50 fps with neither cpu or gpu bottle necking... I was consistently reading less than 50% usage on my gpu and less than 70% usage on any of my CPU cores. Why am i not getting better fps????Here's my build:

7950 @ Core 800 mghz Vram 1250 mghz
i5 3570k @ 4.2 ghz
MSI Z77 mobo
8 (4x2)Gb G Skill 1600 mghz DIMM's
900w Coolmax PSU
1 TB Seagate HDD
120 GB OCZ Agility 3 SSD

check that the msi mb bios is up to date and you have the newest intel chipset drivers loaded. in the bios try turning off c1/c3 states so that all 4 cores dont turn off or throttle down. in amd control panel check that the card set to max performance and all energy savings is turned off.
a c 150 U Graphics card
January 27, 2013 5:34:35 AM

Simple driver issue. What drivers are you running on? Remove driver, restart, run a registry cleaner like Ccleaner, restart and install newest Cat 13.1.
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a b U Graphics card
January 27, 2013 6:26:07 AM

I have the newest drivers for the card (13.1) my mobo divers are outdated and how do i: in amd control panel check that the card set to max performance and all energy savings is turned off.
a c 150 U Graphics card
January 27, 2013 6:40:30 AM

helper800 said:
I have the newest drivers for the card (13.1) my mobo divers are outdated and how do i: in amd control panel check that the card set to max performance and all energy savings is turned off.


Did you update drivers of fresh install them? Just do as I directed above.
a b U Graphics card
January 27, 2013 6:49:41 AM

How do i remove drivers?
a b U Graphics card
January 27, 2013 7:07:26 AM

Novuake said:
Did you update drivers of fresh install them? Just do as I directed above.

How do i remove drivers?
a c 150 U Graphics card
January 27, 2013 7:15:36 AM

helper800 said:
How do i remove drivers?


Start>Control Panel>Programs and Features> Find CATALYST and remove it, restart your PC.

Then download CCleaner here : http://www.piriform.com/ccleaner/download

Run the register sweep, restart again. Then reinstall 13.1 Catalyst drivers.
a b U Graphics card
January 27, 2013 7:24:47 AM

Novuake said:
Start>Control Panel>Programs and Features> Find CATALYST and remove it, restart your PC.

Then download CCleaner here : http://www.piriform.com/ccleaner/download

Run the register sweep, restart again. Then reinstall 13.1 Catalyst drivers.

I have windows 7 and the "Programs and Features" directory does not work...
a c 150 U Graphics card
January 27, 2013 7:31:39 AM

helper800 said:
I have windows 7 and the "Programs and Features" directory does not work...


Those were Windows 7 instructions. What do you mean "does not work"?

Can you not find it? If you use category view, go Start>Control Panel>Uninstall program> Then find Catalyst.
a b U Graphics card
January 27, 2013 7:33:58 AM

Novuake said:
Those were Windows 7 instructions. What do you mean "does not work"?

Can you not find it? If you use category view, go Start>Control Panel>Uninstall program> Then find Catalyst.

Sorry it was in icons view... i was in category view and it doesn't show there...
a c 150 U Graphics card
January 27, 2013 7:44:25 AM

helper800 said:
Sorry it was in icons view... i was in category view and it doesn't show there...


I know, complete what I have suggested and let me know if it improves.
a b U Graphics card
January 27, 2013 7:47:00 AM

Novuake said:
Those were Windows 7 instructions. What do you mean "does not work"?

Can you not find it? If you use category view, go Start>Control Panel>Uninstall program> Then find Catalyst.

Neither CPU nor GPU are bottle-necking so the driver thing didnt fix it CPU still at less than 70% for all cores while GPU is at less than 50%.......... Problem still needs fixing......
a c 150 U Graphics card
January 27, 2013 7:50:02 AM

helper800 said:
Neither CPU nor GPU are bottle-necking so the driver thing didnt fix it CPU still at less than 70% for all cores while GPU is at less than 50%.......... Problem still needs fixing......


OK what screen do you have? Do you have V-Sync enable?

You do realize your GPU is probably just displaying only 50FPS because it is keeping to your screens native 60hz refresh rate. Disable V-sync and your FPS should improve.

Besides, 50FPS is nothing to be concerned about. What is your exact screen model?

IN OTHER WORDS 50FPS IS NOT LOW!

Do experience ANY lag?
Do you have any mods installed?
a b U Graphics card
January 27, 2013 8:01:05 AM

Novuake said:
OK what screen do you have? Do you have V-Sync enable?

You do realize your GPU is probably just displaying only 50FPS because it is keeping to your screens native 60hz refresh rate. Disable V-sync and your FPS should improve.

Besides, 50FPS is nothing to be concerned about. What is your exact screen model?

IN OTHER WORDS 50FPS IS NOT LOW!

Do experience ANY lag?
Do you have any mods installed?

No mods at all, 50 fps is saying to me, v-sync is on so i turned it off and no improvement in the specific area i was in i have a 60Hz Hp monitor that i do not know the model of...
a c 150 U Graphics card
January 27, 2013 8:03:36 AM

helper800 said:
No mods at all, 50 fps is saying to me, v-sync is on so i turned it off and no improvement in the specific area i was in i have a 60Hz Hp monitor that i do not know the model of...


What area is this in?
What resolution is your monitor?

Best solution

a b U Graphics card
January 27, 2013 8:13:15 AM
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look i dont know why are u even pursuing this.
your gpu and cpu are not being 100% used and THAT is good news,
problem would have been if it was 100% usage and u were experiencing lags or overheating or stuttering
but u dont have that!!
your cpu/gpu are both fine and happy and not under stress and in PERFECT working condition.
and i dont think skyrim can use 7950 to full in 1080p 60Hz.
and lets say u somehow after a lot of research u manage to give it stress u'll only be able to get 10 more FPS.(since u hav a 60Hz monitor)
and u wont even notice it!!
and u'll say - (maybe it wasn't worth the work!!)
if u want more stress on your gpu install some mods who's stopping u???
in your monitors resolution and refresh rate u cant put your cpu/gpu to stress.

your cpu is fine your gpu is fine and even the game is fine.
u my friend dont even have a problem!! :lol: 
a b U Graphics card
January 27, 2013 8:14:31 AM

Novuake said:
What area is this in?
What resolution is your monitor?

1080p and looking at the Drunken Huntsman store in Whiterun...
a b U Graphics card
January 27, 2013 8:18:21 AM

dheeraj9933 said:
look i dont know why are u even pursuing this.
your gpu and cpu are not being 100% used and THAT is good news,
problem would have been if it was 100% usage and u were experiencing lags or overheating or stuttering
but u dont have that!!
your cpu/gpu are both fine and happy and not under stress and in PERFECT working condition.
and i dont think skyrim can use 7950 to full in 1080p 60Hz.
and lets say u somehow after a lot of research u manage to give it stress u'll only be able to get 10 more FPS.(since u hav a 60Hz monitor)
and u wont even notice it!!
and u'll say - (maybe it wasn't worth the work!!)
if u want more stress on your gpu install some mods who's stopping u???
in your monitors resolution and refresh rate u cant put your cpu/gpu to stress.

your cpu is fine your gpu is fine and even the game is fine.
u my friend dont even have a problem!! :lol: 

I am pursuing this because my intention is to have around 50 visual improvement mod on at the same time while maintaining a decent fps and if i cant get at least get 60 fps on vanilla skyrim im screwed. Besides its a fact that either CPU or GPU should bottle neck you in a game unless they are perfectly balanced, so definitely a bad thing.
a b U Graphics card
January 27, 2013 8:22:33 AM

dude u dont get it!!
7950 is just half awake
i say u just throw any mod u want to it and then see if u have a problem.
your gpu is not being used to full extent and giving 50FPS which is FINE!!
when u install your mods it is not going to drop too low.
but it might use your gpu 100% and maybe than u'll be satisfied!!
dont worry 7950 is not being used bcoz it cANT!!
it cant give u too much FPS in a 60Hz monitor, BUT
if u install some mods, it will still give ~40 FPS but maybe in 100% use.
do u get my point??
a b U Graphics card
January 27, 2013 8:59:13 AM

dheeraj9933 said:
dude u dont get it!!
7950 is just half awake
i say u just throw any mod u want to it and then see if u have a problem.
your gpu is not being used to full extent and giving 50FPS which is FINE!!
when u install your mods it is not going to drop too low.
but it might use your gpu 100% and maybe than u'll be satisfied!!
dont worry 7950 is not being used bcoz it cANT!!
it cant give u too much FPS in a 60Hz monitor, BUT
if u install some mods, it will still give ~40 FPS but maybe in 100% use.
do u get my point??

What ever point you are trying to make is invalid in the fact that if my gpu and cpu are less than 100% with a 60hz monitor and getting 50 fps with drops to 40 fps then there is some sort of problem...
January 27, 2013 9:37:05 AM

Sounds like CPU Bottleneck to me.

Now I know that your CPU isn't hittting 100% load, but it's a common misconception that a CPU must be at 100% load to be the bottleneck. This isn't like several years ago where you'd only be running a single core CPU. Today's CPUs have several cores/threads and they can't and rarely are put to full potential.
Let me use an analogy to explain why this is so. Imagine that your cpu is a factory. Now you may have 4 workers to delegate tasks to, but that doesn't always mean that you'll be able to assign tasks to them as efficiently as possible. Now the code base (skyrim in this example) is a job that these workers have to complete. Within this job their are many steps. The windows scheduler would be like the manager; delegating each person to certain tasks.
Now, I'm sure you know of the phrase many hands make light work, and this is very much true. If you share the workload evenly across the 4 workers (cores) than each core would only have a 1/4 of the job to do as opposed to having to do the whole thing by themselves. The problem is that you can't always do tasks in parallel. That is, you can't always have all your workers working on the one job at a time. So if you encounter a task that only a single person can work on, he may be working at 100% but your factory (CPU) as a whole is only working at 25% capacity. And even then, it's rarely the case that he'll be working at 100% the whole time as he may have to wait for instructions (which would be from your hdd/ram/optical drive etc with computers) or he may may have to switch between tasks and take a small hit to how efficiently he can do the single tasks in themselves as he has to go through the process in his head (load to the cache/wait for the buffers).
I can tell you now, Skyrim doesn't handle threads too well, in fact, I couldn't really say that there are many games that do. The problem is that skyrim is a much more heavy weighted game when it comes to cpu load than games such as cod and you'd be hard pressed to see it scale beyond 2 cores with any decent performance increases (ps. looking at the individual core load in task manager is not a good way to see how well the load is distributed across cores. This is because that the windows scheduler likes to juggle the load around the cores so that one core isn't handling the bulk of the load the whole time.

If you are not convinced download prime 95 and run a torture test. However... rather than running the test with 4 threads (which would max out your CPU), run a single thread. Now this test will saturate a single thread, so if this task was delegated to a single core you'd see that core in task manager hitting around 100% while the other cores will sit around doing not much at all. Your overall CPU usage will be around 25% since it's only maxing out 1 core of 4.
However, this is not going to be the case (unless you manually set the core affinity under the processes tab in task manager etc) as the windows scheduler will split the load among the 4 cores of your CPU. However, as this test is only single threaded in this instance, it will not be able to run the test in parallel and the end result of an overall ~25% CPU load will be the same.

Easiest way to generally gauge if you have a cpu bottleneck in a game is to watch the GPU load rather than CPU load. If the GPU isn't maxed out you have a CPU bottleneck. Of course this isn't always the case and I'll get to that in a second. And you may be thinking that I'm about to mention ram and hdd but when these are the culprits they present themselves as stuttering (intermittent low framerates for a brief period) rather than a more consistent frame rate issue.
At least one case where your GPU load won't be reflective of a CPU bottleneck is when your card is Bandwidth starved by either it's onboard memory (yes I do realize that I said that ram wasn't the case above, but that is in regards to system RAM and not Dedicated video memory which, while architecturally they are very similar if not the same in some isntances, they are utilized in very different ways as GPUs access their ram more consistently as they have to constantly read large texture sheets) or actually the PCI-e interface into which the card is inserted.
a c 150 U Graphics card
January 27, 2013 11:05:12 AM

Th3Exiled said:
Sounds like CPU Bottleneck to me.

Now I know that your CPU isn't hittting 100% load, but it's a common misconception that a CPU must be at 100% load to be the bottleneck. This isn't like several years ago where you'd only be running a single core CPU. Today's CPUs have several cores/threads and they can't and rarely are put to full potential.
Let me use an analogy to explain why this is so. Imagine that your cpu is a factory. Now you may have 4 workers to delegate tasks to, but that doesn't always mean that you'll be able to assign tasks to them as efficiently as possible. Now the code base (skyrim in this example) is a job that these workers have to complete. Within this job their are many steps. The windows scheduler would be like the manager; delegating each person to certain tasks.
Now, I'm sure you know of the phrase many hands make light work, and this is very much true. If you share the workload evenly across the 4 workers (cores) than each core would only have a 1/4 of the job to do as opposed to having to do the whole thing by themselves. The problem is that you can't always do tasks in parallel. That is, you can't always have all your workers working on the one job at a time. So if you encounter a task that only a single person can work on, he may be working at 100% but your factory (CPU) as a whole is only working at 25% capacity. And even then, it's rarely the case that he'll be working at 100% the whole time as he may have to wait for instructions (which would be from your hdd/ram/optical drive etc with computers) or he may may have to switch between tasks and take a small hit to how efficiently he can do the single tasks in themselves as he has to go through the process in his head (load to the cache/wait for the buffers).
I can tell you now, Skyrim doesn't handle threads too well, in fact, I couldn't really say that there are many games that do. The problem is that skyrim is a much more heavy weighted game when it comes to cpu load than games such as cod and you'd be hard pressed to see it scale beyond 2 cores with any decent performance increases (ps. looking at the individual core load in task manager is not a good way to see how well the load is distributed across cores. This is because that the windows scheduler likes to juggle the load around the cores so that one core isn't handling the bulk of the load the whole time.

If you are not convinced download prime 95 and run a torture test. However... rather than running the test with 4 threads (which would max out your CPU), run a single thread. Now this test will saturate a single thread, so if this task was delegated to a single core you'd see that core in task manager hitting around 100% while the other cores will sit around doing not much at all. Your overall CPU usage will be around 25% since it's only maxing out 1 core of 4.
However, this is not going to be the case (unless you manually set the core affinity under the processes tab in task manager etc) as the windows scheduler will split the load among the 4 cores of your CPU. However, as this test is only single threaded in this instance, it will not be able to run the test in parallel and the end result of an overall ~25% CPU load will be the same.

Easiest way to generally gauge if you have a cpu bottleneck in a game is to watch the GPU load rather than CPU load. If the GPU isn't maxed out you have a CPU bottleneck. Of course this isn't always the case and I'll get to that in a second. And you may be thinking that I'm about to mention ram and hdd but when these are the culprits they present themselves as stuttering (intermittent low framerates for a brief period) rather than a more consistent frame rate issue.
At least one case where your GPU load won't be reflective of a CPU bottleneck is when your card is Bandwidth starved by either it's onboard memory (yes I do realize that I said that ram wasn't the case above, but that is in regards to system RAM and not Dedicated video memory which, while architecturally they are very similar if not the same in some isntances, they are utilized in very different ways as GPUs access their ram more consistently as they have to constantly read large texture sheets) or actually the PCI-e interface into which the card is inserted.



While you have a very lengthy and seemingly valid point, there is no way a 3570K is going to bottleneck Skyrim @ 4.2GHz.
a b U Graphics card
January 27, 2013 11:28:21 AM

Novuake said:
While you have a very lengthy and seemingly valid point, there is no way a 3570K is going to bottleneck Skyrim @ 4.2GHz.

Not only that but im looking at individual CPU core utilization which makes you point invalid because non have gone past 70%.
a b U Graphics card
February 7, 2013 12:35:37 AM

Best answer selected by helper800.
!