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Worth of upgrading whole system for 670

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  • Graphics Cards
  • SLI
  • Graphics
Last response: in Graphics Cards
January 30, 2013 11:28:22 AM

I built my system about 1.5 years back, and tax returns are going to be very nice to me, so moral of the story, I want to get a 670, maybe sli a pair of them (going for 4 gb memory card.) evga discontinued the 560ti I had originally planned to sli, and the going price for one now compared to performance of newer cards makes that option not as attractive.

I'm running a p67 with an i5-2500k. I know if I end up not sli-ing, I'll be fine not upgrading. If I sli, should I move to the z77 chip and an ivy bridge to make use of 3.0 pci? If I went that route, I'd be shelling out a good $1000+ (possibly giving it a few months before getting the second card.

More about : worth upgrading system 670

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a b U Graphics card
January 30, 2013 2:01:49 PM

Yes to SLI it you need to switch to Z77.

Option 1.

If you have the Cash, go for an Intel 3570K (if you do OC) or a 3570 or 3470 (if you dont OC). And for motherboard, buy a Asus P8Z77 V or a Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD5H or Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD3H. And buy a GTX 670

Option 2

A single GTX 670 or GTX 680 is enough for 1080p gaming. When you do want to SLI then you can upgrade your whole system. so you can break up the cost. And instead of 3 670's now, go for a GTX 680. An overclocked 670 will match a GTX 680 but it may cause problems for SLI in future if you cant find the exact model...

Option 2

Manage with your GTX 560 Ti for now and Wait for Intel Haswell and a GTX 700 series card.

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If i were you id go with option 2 or option 3.

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a b U Graphics card
January 30, 2013 2:11:03 PM

doublepedaldylan said:
I built my system about 1.5 years back, and tax returns are going to be very nice to me, so moral of the story, I want to get a 670, maybe sli a pair of them (going for 4 gb memory card.) evga discontinued the 560ti I had originally planned to sli, and the going price for one now compared to performance of newer cards makes that option not as attractive.

I'm running a p67 with an i5-2500k. I know if I end up not sli-ing, I'll be fine not upgrading. If I sli, should I move to the z77 chip and an ivy bridge to make use of 3.0 pci? If I went that route, I'd be shelling out a good $1000+ (possibly giving it a few months before getting the second card.

Well I am kinda in the same boat as you. How my pcie slots are set up, they wont crossfire properly like I thought they would. But it doesn't matter because when I went from a 6950 to a 7970, the performance boost was insane and probably close to what you would get. So don't worry I'm sure a 670 is more than enough (Don't waste your money on a 4GB version). If you want even more performance, a 7970 GHz vapor-x is over 75% as strong as 670 sli anyways.
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a b U Graphics card
January 30, 2013 2:14:23 PM

What? You don't need to upgrade your CPU to SLI ... maybe the motherboard but that is only if the one you have won't support SLI. Going from PCIe 2.0 to PCIe 3.0 will show next to no gains... The i5 2500k is still one of the best gaming CPUs and will easily handle SLI GTX 670...
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a b U Graphics card
January 30, 2013 2:17:40 PM

CaptainTom said:
Well I am kinda in the same boat as you. How my pcie slots are set up, they wont crossfire properly like I thought they would. But it doesn't matter because when I went from a 6950 to a 7970, the performance boost was insane and probably close to what you would get. So don't worry I'm sure a 670 is more than enough (Don't waste your money on a 4GB version). If you want even more performance, a 7970 GHz vapor-x is over 75% as strong as 670 sli anyways.

He may have enough PCIe slots but unless all the slots are 16x then the GPU will be bottle-necked by the PCIe bandwidth. And a 7970 is not better than a 670 SLI. I is better than a Stock GTX 680 Though...
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January 30, 2013 2:21:41 PM

Derza10 is right.
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a b U Graphics card
January 30, 2013 2:25:11 PM

Derza10 said:
What? You don't need to upgrade your CPU to SLI ... maybe the motherboard but that is only if the one you have won't support SLI. Going from PCIe 2.0 to PCIe 3.0 will show next to no gains... The i5 2500k is still one of the best gaming CPUs and will easily handle SLI GTX 670...

Even if he upgrades his motherboard, SandyBridge doesnt support pci 3.0. And as i said before the card will be bottlenecked by the bandwidth, PCIe 3.0 card needs minimum of PCIe 3.0 8x (Or PCIe 2.0 16x) to take full advantage or the card. PCIe 2.0 8x just wont cut it...

It would work, but you would be wasting your money...
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a b U Graphics card
January 30, 2013 2:30:57 PM

timarp000 said:
Even if he upgrades his motherboard, SandyBridge doesnt support pci 3.0. And as i said before the card will be bottlenecked by the bandwidth, PCIe 3.0 card needs minimum of PCIe 3.0 8x (Or PCIe 2.0 16x) to take full advantage or the card. PCIe 2.0 8x just wont cut it...

It would work, but you would be wasting your money...


Are you joking? Why are you trying to push him on spending ~$400 for maybe a 1% gain?

PLEASE EXPLAIN: By NOT buying a new CPU + Motherboard how is he "Wasting money"?

Maybe you should take a look at the link i provided up above before you claim PCIe 2.0 "bottlenecks"
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a b U Graphics card
January 30, 2013 2:31:41 PM

OP what is your Motherboard model number?
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January 30, 2013 2:40:36 PM

Derza10 said:
OP what is your Motherboard model number?

Msi p67-gd53 (b3).



Also, because this is getting at what I'm asking, but I will intend to sli eventually, and this chart only references a single card.

I believe my board will run two slots at (x8/x8).
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a b U Graphics card
January 30, 2013 2:44:04 PM

Derza10 said:
Are you joking? Why are you trying to push him on spending ~$400 for maybe a 1% gain?

PLEASE EXPLAIN: By NOT buying a new CPU + Motherboard how is he "Wasting money"?

Maybe you should take a look at the link i provided up above before you claim PCIe 2.0 "bottlenecks"


I not telling him to buy a new CPU, im telling him to buy a Single GTX 680 to GTX 670
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a b U Graphics card
January 30, 2013 2:46:35 PM

So basically you are looking at a ~4% difference in performance... At the cost of ~$400.

If ~2 FPS is worth $400 to you then yes buy a new CPU and motherboard... If not. Stay with what you have and just get the GPUs. If it was me I would hold off the CPU + motherboard upgrade till next gen.
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a b U Graphics card
January 30, 2013 2:51:33 PM

timarp000 said:
I not telling him to buy a new CPU, im telling him to buy a Single GTX 680 to GTX 670


Ah I see... But you also stated that he would NEED to switch to a Z77 board to upgrade to SLI... and that is far from true. If he wants to SLI he will be fine with his CPU + motherboard.

But I do agree if you are only playing on 1080p just get one 670... If you are playing on a multi-monitor setup or 1440p+ SLI is a good option.
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a b U Graphics card
January 30, 2013 2:58:29 PM

And the motherboard that they are using in that test (Asus P8P67 WS Revolution) has 4 pcie 2.0 physically 16x slots. 2 at 16x and 2 at 8x. If they run SLI the cards will be running at 16x and 16x(pcie 2.0). Which is 8x and 8x pcie 3.0. Hence there isnt a performance hit...

His board isnt that high-end, it doesnt have a PLX chip. If he runs SLI it will be 8x and 8x (PCIe 2.0) which isnt recommended for PCIe 3.0 cards.

And in the 1st post i said,
Quote:
If i were you (to OP) id go with option 2 or option 3.


Check out this link, ( see Max Payne 3 )
http://www.hardocp.com/article/201 [...] _review/12

The cards in the pcie 2.0 mobo are running at 16x, 8x, 8x. And in a high end mobo there is a 20% decrease in performance. In his motherboard he will be running 8x, 8x (PCIe 2.0) which 4x, 4x on 3.0. I think that he will see a decrease of at least 15% not 2 fps.
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a b U Graphics card
January 30, 2013 3:01:00 PM

timarp000 said:
And the motherboard that they are using in that test (Asus P8P67 WS Revolution) has 4 pcie 2.0 physically 16x slots. 2 at 16x and 2 at 8x. If they run SLI the cards will be running at 16x and 16x(pcie 2.0). Which is 8x and 8x pcie 3.0. Hence there isnt a performance hit...

His board isnt that high-end, it doesnt have a PLX chip. If he runs SLI it will be 8x and 8x (PCIe 2.0) which isnt recommended for PCIe 3.0 cards.

And in the 1st post i said,
Quote:
If i were you (to OP) id go with option 2 or option 3.


There is still very little difference in performance from PCIe 2.0 x8 vs PCIe 3.0 x16.... It is like a 2 FPS difference, he wouldn't even notice it.
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January 30, 2013 3:11:25 PM

I think this has somewhat meandered from the root of my question, which I probably didn't clarify well enough.

For sli-ing, is the need for 3.0 significant? Past that, I can figure out cost worthiness.

I do plan to sli and multi-monitor eventually(hence 4gb mem, since it isn't shared across sli). For the sli setup, in order to use pci3 I need ivy bridge and possibly z77. Since my current board would run pci2 8x/8x I THINK I would lose more than just the 4%.

At the moment, thinking the 680 route and wait to upgrade the rest with sli.
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a b U Graphics card
January 30, 2013 3:17:36 PM

Quote:
Check out this link, ( see Max Payne 3 )
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/07/18/pci_express_2...

The cards in the pcie 2.0 mobo are running at 16x, 8x, 8x. And in a high end mobo there is a 20% decrease in performance. In his motherboard he will be running 8x, 8x (PCIe 2.0) which 4x, 4x on 3.0. I think that he will see a decrease of at least 15% not 2 fps.


That is 3-way and only in one game is it a decent drop... 37.6 vs 43 fps, the other games are 66 fps vs 60.2 (the PCie 2.0 being the higher of the two) Lol now that i look at it... PCIe 2.0 is higher in all games but Max Payne at 5760x1200...
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a b U Graphics card
January 30, 2013 3:21:08 PM

doublepedaldylan said:
I think this has somewhat meandered from the root of my question, which I probably didn't clarify well enough.

For sli-ing, is the need for 3.0 significant? Past that, I can figure out cost worthiness.

I do plan to sli and multi-monitor eventually(hence 4gb mem, since it isn't shared across sli). For the sli setup, in order to use pci3 I need ivy bridge and possibly z77. Since my current board would run pci2 8x/8x I THINK I would lose more than just the 4%.

At the moment, thinking the 680 route and wait to upgrade the rest with sli.


You will see very little difference in performance from changing from 2.0 to 3.0.

I would say don't go SLI until you have all 3 monitors, your mobo+cpu are fine and IMO should be the last thing you upgrade...
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a b U Graphics card
January 30, 2013 3:21:44 PM

doublepedaldylan said:
I think this has somewhat meandered from the root of my question, which I probably didn't clarify well enough.

For sli-ing, is the need for 3.0 significant? Past that, I can figure out cost worthiness.

I do plan to sli and multi-monitor eventually(hence 4gb mem, since it isn't shared across sli). For the sli setup, in order to use pci3 I need ivy bridge and possibly z77. Since my current board would run pci2 8x/8x I THINK I would lose more than just the 4%.

At the moment, thinking the 680 route and wait to upgrade the rest with sli.

Buy a GTX 680 or a Radeon HD 7970 GHz and you will be set for the next 2 years...
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January 30, 2013 3:36:30 PM

Ok, thanks for the input, will be getting best answer later to close thread. Likely one 680 (evga fanboy) and then set up water cooling. Side question, anyone know if evga plans to make the 680 in a hydrocopper version as they did with the 580?
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a b U Graphics card
January 30, 2013 5:09:27 PM

timarp000 said:
He may have enough PCIe slots but unless all the slots are 16x then the GPU will be bottle-necked by the PCIe bandwidth. And a 7970 is not better than a 670 SLI. I is better than a Stock GTX 680 Though...


I never said it was stronger. The 680 is 10% stronger than a 670. The 7970 GHz is 15% stronger than that. 670 SLI is 80-90% stronger than a single 670. Hence an overclocked 7970 GHz is easily 75% of 670 SLI.
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a b U Graphics card
January 30, 2013 5:45:16 PM

CaptainTom said:
I never said it was stronger. The 680 is 10% stronger than a 670. The 7970 GHz is 15% stronger than that. 670 SLI is 80-90% stronger than a single 670. Hence an overclocked 7970 GHz is easily 75% of 670 SLI.


That might be stretching it... But then why not assume the GTX 670's are overclocked? then a 7970 will only be ~60% of SLI 670's OC'd.

EDIT: Hate it when people try to sell a card based off what it can do overclocked vs non overclocked other cards... It's not helpful at all. Oh and your wording is a bit confusing... are you really trying to say that a 7970 GHz is 15% faster than a GTX 680?
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a b U Graphics card
January 30, 2013 10:24:12 PM

Derza10 said:
That might be stretching it... But then why not assume the GTX 670's are overclocked? then a 7970 will only be ~60% of SLI 670's OC'd.

EDIT: Hate it when people try to sell a card based off what it can do overclocked vs non overclocked other cards... It's not helpful at all. Oh and your wording is a bit confusing... are you really trying to say that a 7970 GHz is 15% faster than a GTX 680?


I am saying that when all of the mentioned cards are fully overclocked, the 7970 GHz will be about 75% as strong as 670 SLI, and 15% stronger than a 680 on average. There is a reason the 7970 GHz is two tiers above the 670 and one above the 680.

Oh and overclocking should ALWAYS be a factor. When the average 7950 ($300) can overclock to a stock 680 ($450), that has to be taken into account.

P.S. : The 680 in your signature is more overclocked than any I have seen before. I am not saying you are lying, but it sure as hell isn't the norm. Please don't base all 680's on that card, and I won't base all 7970 GHz's on the ones I have seen that are at 1400/1800+ clocks.
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a b U Graphics card
January 31, 2013 8:30:53 AM

you cant compare a Non-OCed card to an OCed one... Its not fair. You can compare an OCed card to an OCed card though. Usually AMD card OC better. So if you do OC then an AMD would be better As a R7950 with an After Market cooler could catch up with a GTX 680. But clock for clock a 680 is better. An OCed 7950 can never beat an OCed 680.
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a b U Graphics card
January 31, 2013 1:59:10 PM

^ exactly what i was saying... and I have seen a good amount of 680's go 1250+ (I know someone that has the FTW 680 that can get 1350) hell I have also seen 670 go as high as 1300...

Here are my 3dmark11 scores if you care:
http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/5545046
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a b U Graphics card
January 31, 2013 2:40:06 PM

Derza10 said:
^ exactly what i was saying... and I have seen a good amount of 680's go 1250+ (I know someone that has the FTW 680 that can get 1350) hell I have also seen 670 go as high as 1300...

Here are my 3dmark11 scores if you care:
http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/5545046


Fine then I will pretend it is common for 7970 GH'z to all reach 1400/1800 (I have seen several after all). Good luck beating those!

Also I don't know if your read what I said, but I am comparing all of these cards overclocked. It is common knowledge that a 7950 trades blows or beats a 670 when they are both overclocked, and the same goes for the 7970 vs the 680.
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a b U Graphics card
January 31, 2013 2:49:14 PM

CaptainTom said:
Fine then I will pretend it is common for 7970 GH'z to all reach 1400/1800 (I have seen several after all). Good luck beating those!

Also I don't know if your read what I said, but I am comparing all of these cards overclocked. It is common knowledge that a 7950 trades blows or beats a 670 when they are both overclocked, and the same goes for the 7970 vs the 680.


All i am saying is it is dumb to compare cards overclock vs stock or even overclock vs overclock... due to the fact that it is luck of the draw with each card. The range in what each card can achieve varies to much. Best to just compare stock to stock, knowing that both cards will work at those clocks ( and can be RMA'd if they don't).
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a b U Graphics card
January 31, 2013 2:52:23 PM

Derza10 said:
^ exactly what i was saying... and I have seen a good amount of 680's go 1250+ (I know someone that has the FTW 680 that can get 1350) hell I have also seen 670 go as high as 1300...

Here are my 3dmark11 scores if you care:
http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/5545046

Even my GTX 660 Ti made it to 1200Mhz and memory of 6770Mhz! but i got only 6fps increase... (15%)
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a b U Graphics card
January 31, 2013 2:54:51 PM

Yea i don't see why everyone thinks the nvidia cards don't overclock well... I rarely see/hear about the GTX 670 or 680 not being able to go 1200+
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a b U Graphics card
January 31, 2013 3:05:09 PM

Derza10 said:
Yea i don't see why everyone thinks the nvidia cards don't overclock well... I rarely see/hear about the GTX 670 or 680 not being able to go 1200+

I clocked it back down though... more heat, louder card and more power consumption for 5fps! i dont think so.
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a b U Graphics card
January 31, 2013 3:07:35 PM

timarp000 said:
I clocked it back down though... more heat, louder card and more power consumption for 5fps! i dont think so.

I assume you have a reference cooler then.
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a b U Graphics card
January 31, 2013 3:13:01 PM

Derza10 said:
I assume you have a reference cooler then.

no, i have an Asus DCU2. The card exhausts air in the case, the card itself doesnt get hot, the air inside the case gets hot...
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a b U Graphics card
January 31, 2013 3:15:47 PM

The main thing is i plan to SLI soon and i have only a 650W PSU. to make it stable i had to boost power delivery to 110%. I dont know if i can SLI with that Extra power cunsumption. Nvidia recommends 600W for SLI. 5 have 50W more... thats all.
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a b U Graphics card
January 31, 2013 3:23:56 PM

timarp000 said:
The main thing is i plan to SLI soon and i have only a 650W PSU. to make it stable i had to boost power delivery to 110%. I dont know if i can SLI with that Extra power cunsumption. Nvidia recommends 600W for SLI. 5 have 50W more... thats all.


Eh you will be fine... GTX 660 Ti sli full system load will only pull ~400-450w, 500w MAYBE with heavy overclock, from the wall. An 80% efficient PSU, I assume yours is around that, will pull up to 812.5w from the wall to provide your comp with 650w. 500w from the wall will be your computer using ~400w of your 650w PSU = about 61.5% load on the PSU... MAX. You really have nothing to worry about... as long as your PSU is a decent one.

EDIT: just saw your sig, you will be fine with that PSU with SLI 660 Ti's overclocked.
The nvidia website as well as the AMD one always list much higher PSUs than the cards actually need to take into account for all the crappy PSUs out there, and for all the different guild lines each company uses to rate their PSUs(They can be vastly different).
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a b U Graphics card
January 31, 2013 3:39:10 PM

Thanks Derza! i wish i could give you best answer :( 
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a b U Graphics card
January 31, 2013 3:41:27 PM

Lol np. I'm here to help not to horde points anyway :) 
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a b U Graphics card
January 31, 2013 9:12:56 PM

Derza10 said:
All i am saying is it is dumb to compare cards overclock vs stock or even overclock vs overclock... due to the fact that it is luck of the draw with each card. The range in what each card can achieve varies to much. Best to just compare stock to stock, knowing that both cards will work at those clocks ( and can be RMA'd if they don't).


But it isn't the luck of the draw! You can EXPECT that a 670 will overclock to some number and that a 7970 GHz will too. If you don't agree that overclocking should be considered, it is your opinion. But you can't cover your ears and say it doesn't exist either.
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a b U Graphics card
January 31, 2013 9:20:27 PM

Expecting and actual results are totally different. You could say you can expect the gtx 670 to overclock to 1100-1250 Mhz and the 7970 to overclock to 1100-1350 or something but it would need to be a range... Now you can say you can HOPE to get 1250Mhz with a GTX 670 or HOPE to get 1350Mhz with a 7970... You can have huge differences in what each card can overclock to.

But anyway who cares i'm done arguing over something so stupid.
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February 9, 2013 6:59:13 PM

Best answer selected by doublepedaldylan.
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