Worth of upgrading whole system for 670

[doublepedaldylan]

I built my system about 1.5 years back, and tax returns are going to be very nice to me, so moral of the story, I want to get a 670, maybe sli a pair of them (going for 4 gb memory card.) evga discontinued the 560ti I had originally planned to sli, and the going price for one now compared to performance of newer cards makes that option not as attractive.

I'm running a p67 with an i5-2500k. I know if I end up not sli-ing, I'll be fine not upgrading. If I sli, should I move to the z77 chip and an ivy bridge to make use of 3.0 pci? If I went that route, I'd be shelling out a good $1000+ (possibly giving it a few months before getting the second card.

 

[timarp000]

Yes to SLI it you need to switch to Z77.

Option 1.

If you have the Cash, go for an Intel 3570K (if you do OC) or a 3570 or 3470 (if you dont OC). And for motherboard, buy a Asus P8Z77 V or a Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD5H or Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD3H. And buy a GTX 670

Option 2

A single GTX 670 or GTX 680 is enough for 1080p gaming. When you do want to SLI then you can upgrade your whole system. so you can break up the cost. And instead of 3 670's now, go for a GTX 680. An overclocked 670 will match a GTX 680 but it may cause problems for SLI in future if you cant find the exact model...

Option 2

Manage with your GTX 560 Ti for now and Wait for Intel Haswell and a GTX 700 series card.

--------------------------------------

If i were you id go with option 2 or option 3.

 

[CaptainTom]

I built my system about 1.5 years back, and tax returns are going to be very nice to me, so moral of the story, I want to get a 670, maybe sli a pair of them (going for 4 gb memory card.) evga discontinued the 560ti I had originally planned to sli, and the going price for one now compared to performance of newer cards makes that option not as attractive.

I'm running a p67 with an i5-2500k. I know if I end up not sli-ing, I'll be fine not upgrading. If I sli, should I move to the z77 chip and an ivy bridge to make use of 3.0 pci? If I went that route, I'd be shelling out a good $1000+ (possibly giving it a few months before getting the second card.

Well I am kinda in the same boat as you. How my pcie slots are set up, they wont crossfire properly like I thought they would. But it doesn't matter because when I went from a 6950 to a 7970, the performance boost was insane and probably close to what you would get. So don't worry I'm sure a 670 is more than enough (Don't waste your money on a 4GB version). If you want even more performance, a 7970 GHz vapor-x is over 75% as strong as 670 sli anyways.

 

[Derza10]

What? You don't need to upgrade your CPU to SLI ... maybe the motherboard but that is only if the one you have won't support SLI. Going from PCIe 2.0 to PCIe 3.0 will show next to no gains... The i5 2500k is still one of the best gaming CPUs and will easily handle SLI GTX 670...

 

[timarp000]

Well I am kinda in the same boat as you. How my pcie slots are set up, they wont crossfire properly like I thought they would. But it doesn't matter because when I went from a 6950 to a 7970, the performance boost was insane and probably close to what you would get. So don't worry I'm sure a 670 is more than enough (Don't waste your money on a 4GB version). If you want even more performance, a 7970 GHz vapor-x is over 75% as strong as 670 sli anyways.

He may have enough PCIe slots but unless all the slots are 16x then the GPU will be bottle-necked by the PCIe bandwidth. And a 7970 is not better than a 670 SLI. I is better than a Stock GTX 680 Though...

 

[Derza10]

Here take a look:
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/07/18/pci_express_20_vs_30_gpu_gaming_performance_review/3

 

[paulemannsen]

Derza10 is right.

 

[timarp000]

What? You don't need to upgrade your CPU to SLI ... maybe the motherboard but that is only if the one you have won't support SLI. Going from PCIe 2.0 to PCIe 3.0 will show next to no gains... The i5 2500k is still one of the best gaming CPUs and will easily handle SLI GTX 670...

Even if he upgrades his motherboard, SandyBridge doesnt support pci 3.0. And as i said before the card will be bottlenecked by the bandwidth, PCIe 3.0 card needs minimum of PCIe 3.0 8x (Or PCIe 2.0 16x) to take full advantage or the card. PCIe 2.0 8x just wont cut it...

It would work, but you would be wasting your money...

 

[Derza10]

Even if he upgrades his motherboard, SandyBridge doesnt support pci 3.0. And as i said before the card will be bottlenecked by the bandwidth, PCIe 3.0 card needs minimum of PCIe 3.0 8x (Or PCIe 2.0 16x) to take full advantage or the card. PCIe 2.0 8x just wont cut it...

It would work, but you would be wasting your money...

Are you joking? Why are you trying to push him on spending ~$400 for maybe a 1% gain?

PLEASE EXPLAIN: By NOT buying a new CPU + Motherboard how is he "Wasting money"?

Maybe you should take a look at the link i provided up above before you claim PCIe 2.0 "bottlenecks"

 

[Derza10]

OP what is your Motherboard model number?

 

[doublepedaldylan]

OP what is your Motherboard model number?

Msi p67-gd53 (b3).

Also, because this is getting at what I'm asking, but I will intend to sli eventually, and this chart only references a single card.

I believe my board will run two slots at (x8/x8).

 

[timarp000]

Are you joking? Why are you trying to push him on spending ~$400 for maybe a 1% gain?

PLEASE EXPLAIN: By NOT buying a new CPU + Motherboard how is he "Wasting money"?

Maybe you should take a look at the link i provided up above before you claim PCIe 2.0 "bottlenecks"

I not telling him to buy a new CPU, im telling him to buy a Single GTX 680 to GTX 670

 

[Derza10]

So basically you are looking at a ~4% difference in performance... At the cost of ~$400.

If ~2 FPS is worth $400 to you then yes buy a new CPU and motherboard... If not. Stay with what you have and just get the GPUs. If it was me I would hold off the CPU + motherboard upgrade till next gen.

 

[Derza10]

I not telling him to buy a new CPU, im telling him to buy a Single GTX 680 to GTX 670

Ah I see... But you also stated that he would NEED to switch to a Z77 board to upgrade to SLI... and that is far from true. If he wants to SLI he will be fine with his CPU + motherboard.

But I do agree if you are only playing on 1080p just get one 670... If you are playing on a multi-monitor setup or 1440p+ SLI is a good option.

 

[timarp000]

And the motherboard that they are using in that test (Asus P8P67 WS Revolution) has 4 pcie 2.0 physically 16x slots. 2 at 16x and 2 at 8x. If they run SLI the cards will be running at 16x and 16x(pcie 2.0). Which is 8x and 8x pcie 3.0. Hence there isnt a performance hit...

His board isnt that high-end, it doesnt have a PLX chip. If he runs SLI it will be 8x and 8x (PCIe 2.0) which isnt recommended for PCIe 3.0 cards.

And in the 1st post i said,

If i were you (to OP) id go with option 2 or option 3.

Check out this link, ( see Max Payne 3 )
http://www.hardocp.com/article/201 [...] _review/12

The cards in the pcie 2.0 mobo are running at 16x, 8x, 8x. And in a high end mobo there is a 20% decrease in performance. In his motherboard he will be running 8x, 8x (PCIe 2.0) which 4x, 4x on 3.0. I think that he will see a decrease of at least 15% not 2 fps.

 

[Derza10]

And the motherboard that they are using in that test (Asus P8P67 WS Revolution) has 4 pcie 2.0 physically 16x slots. 2 at 16x and 2 at 8x. If they run SLI the cards will be running at 16x and 16x(pcie 2.0). Which is 8x and 8x pcie 3.0. Hence there isnt a performance hit...

His board isnt that high-end, it doesnt have a PLX chip. If he runs SLI it will be 8x and 8x (PCIe 2.0) which isnt recommended for PCIe 3.0 cards.

And in the 1st post i said,

If i were you (to OP) id go with option 2 or option 3.

There is still very little difference in performance from PCIe 2.0 x8 vs PCIe 3.0 x16.... It is like a 2 FPS difference, he wouldn't even notice it.

 

[doublepedaldylan]

I think this has somewhat meandered from the root of my question, which I probably didn't clarify well enough.

For sli-ing, is the need for 3.0 significant? Past that, I can figure out cost worthiness.

I do plan to sli and multi-monitor eventually(hence 4gb mem, since it isn't shared across sli). For the sli setup, in order to use pci3 I need ivy bridge and possibly z77. Since my current board would run pci2 8x/8x I THINK I would lose more than just the 4%.

At the moment, thinking the 680 route and wait to upgrade the rest with sli.

 

[Derza10]

Check out this link, ( see Max Payne 3 )
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/07/18/pci_express_20_vs_30_gpu_gaming_performance_review/12

The cards in the pcie 2.0 mobo are running at 16x, 8x, 8x. And in a high end mobo there is a 20% decrease in performance. In his motherboard he will be running 8x, 8x (PCIe 2.0) which 4x, 4x on 3.0. I think that he will see a decrease of at least 15% not 2 fps.

That is 3-way and only in one game is it a decent drop... 37.6 vs 43 fps, the other games are 66 fps vs 60.2 (the PCie 2.0 being the higher of the two) Lol now that i look at it... PCIe 2.0 is higher in all games but Max Payne at 5760x1200...

 

[Derza10]

I think this has somewhat meandered from the root of my question, which I probably didn't clarify well enough.

For sli-ing, is the need for 3.0 significant? Past that, I can figure out cost worthiness.

I do plan to sli and multi-monitor eventually(hence 4gb mem, since it isn't shared across sli). For the sli setup, in order to use pci3 I need ivy bridge and possibly z77. Since my current board would run pci2 8x/8x I THINK I would lose more than just the 4%.

At the moment, thinking the 680 route and wait to upgrade the rest with sli.

You will see very little difference in performance from changing from 2.0 to 3.0.

I would say don't go SLI until you have all 3 monitors, your mobo+cpu are fine and IMO should be the last thing you upgrade...

 

[timarp000]

I think this has somewhat meandered from the root of my question, which I probably didn't clarify well enough.

For sli-ing, is the need for 3.0 significant? Past that, I can figure out cost worthiness.

I do plan to sli and multi-monitor eventually(hence 4gb mem, since it isn't shared across sli). For the sli setup, in order to use pci3 I need ivy bridge and possibly z77. Since my current board would run pci2 8x/8x I THINK I would lose more than just the 4%.

At the moment, thinking the 680 route and wait to upgrade the rest with sli.

Buy a GTX 680 or a Radeon HD 7970 GHz and you will be set for the next 2 years...

 

[doublepedaldylan]

Ok, thanks for the input, will be getting best answer later to close thread. Likely one 680 (evga fanboy) and then set up water cooling. Side question, anyone know if evga plans to make the 680 in a hydrocopper version as they did with the 580?

 

[CaptainTom]

He may have enough PCIe slots but unless all the slots are 16x then the GPU will be bottle-necked by the PCIe bandwidth. And a 7970 is not better than a 670 SLI. I is better than a Stock GTX 680 Though...

I never said it was stronger. The 680 is 10% stronger than a 670. The 7970 GHz is 15% stronger than that. 670 SLI is 80-90% stronger than a single 670. Hence an overclocked 7970 GHz is easily 75% of 670 SLI.

 

[Derza10]

I never said it was stronger. The 680 is 10% stronger than a 670. The 7970 GHz is 15% stronger than that. 670 SLI is 80-90% stronger than a single 670. Hence an overclocked 7970 GHz is easily 75% of 670 SLI.

That might be stretching it... But then why not assume the GTX 670's are overclocked? then a 7970 will only be ~60% of SLI 670's OC'd.

EDIT: Hate it when people try to sell a card based off what it can do overclocked vs non overclocked other cards... It's not helpful at all. Oh and your wording is a bit confusing... are you really trying to say that a 7970 GHz is 15% faster than a GTX 680?

 

[CaptainTom]

That might be stretching it... But then why not assume the GTX 670's are overclocked? then a 7970 will only be ~60% of SLI 670's OC'd.

EDIT: Hate it when people try to sell a card based off what it can do overclocked vs non overclocked other cards... It's not helpful at all. Oh and your wording is a bit confusing... are you really trying to say that a 7970 GHz is 15% faster than a GTX 680?

I am saying that when all of the mentioned cards are fully overclocked, the 7970 GHz will be about 75% as strong as 670 SLI, and 15% stronger than a 680 on average. There is a reason the 7970 GHz is two tiers above the 670 and one above the 680.

Oh and overclocking should ALWAYS be a factor. When the average 7950 ($300) can overclock to a stock 680 ($450), that has to be taken into account.

P.S. : The 680 in your signature is more overclocked than any I have seen before. I am not saying you are lying, but it sure as hell isn't the norm. Please don't base all 680's on that card, and I won't base all 7970 GHz's on the ones I have seen that are at 1400/1800+ clocks.

 

[timarp000]

you cant compare a Non-OCed card to an OCed one... Its not fair. You can compare an OCed card to an OCed card though. Usually AMD card OC better. So if you do OC then an AMD would be better As a R7950 with an After Market cooler could catch up with a GTX 680. But clock for clock a 680 is better. An OCed 7950 can never beat an OCed 680.