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What is the diff between hifi amps and PA amps

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Anonymous
August 9, 2004 1:21:10 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

I am a musician and notice that PA sytems work fine with CD input. Why
can't I just buy a music PA and plug a CD into it for my home system?
I want GOOD sound.

More about : diff hifi amps amps

Anonymous
August 9, 2004 1:43:33 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

Doug wrote:

>I am a musician and notice that PA sytems work fine with CD input. Why
>can't I just buy a music PA and plug a CD into it for my home system?

There is no reason that you cannot.

>I want GOOD sound.

Do yo believe that PA system amplifiers are inherently better sounding
than hi-fi amplifiers?

--
========================================================================
Michael Kesti | "And like, one and one don't make
| two, one and one make one."
mkesti@gv.net | - The Who, Bargain
Anonymous
August 9, 2004 2:31:17 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

"Doug" wrote ...
> I am a musician and notice that PA sytems work fine with CD input.

Or with any suitable input, for that matter.

> Why can't I just buy a music PA and plug a CD into it for my
> home system?

PA amps tend to be optimized for heavy duty higher-power
use. Hi-Fi amps tend to be designed for home use. Some
people have done what you are proposing. Some of the more
common complaints are:

PA amps are frequently more noisy physically: mainly the
cooling fans, but sometimes buzzing transformers, etc.

PA amps are frequently more noisy electrically: Optimizing
them for high power sometimes involves trade-offs with low-
level signal to noise ratios. Note that most PA amps are never
heard at the distances and quiet ambience where Hi-Fi amps
are usually found.

PA amps may have lower sensitivity (+4dB professional line
level vs. -10dB consumer line level) This makes them more
difficult to interface to things like consumer preamps, etc.

> I want GOOD sound.

And even in the absense of any of those factors, being a "PA"
amplifier does not impart any inherent superiority (of infer-
iority) to any particular "Hi-Fi" amp.
Related resources
August 9, 2004 8:32:49 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

Doug wrote:
> I am a musician and notice that PA sytems work fine with CD input. Why
> can't I just buy a music PA and plug a CD into it for my home system?
> I want GOOD sound.

PA amps are likely to have features useful for PA applications
(e.g. 70 V outputs), and hifi amps are likely to put more emphasis
on high fidelity, as implied by their names.

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form che...@prodigy.net.
Anonymous
August 9, 2004 9:42:47 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

On Mon, 09 Aug 2004 04:32:49 GMT, CJT <abujlehc@prodigy.net> wrote:

>Doug wrote:
>> I am a musician and notice that PA sytems work fine with CD input. Why
>> can't I just buy a music PA and plug a CD into it for my home system?
>> I want GOOD sound.
>
>PA amps are likely to have features useful for PA applications
>(e.g. 70 V outputs), and hifi amps are likely to put more emphasis
>on high fidelity, as implied by their names.

However, a decent PA amplifier is sonically indistiguishable from a
decent 'high fidelity' amplifier, so sound quality isn't really an
issue. The PA amp is however likely to be a lot more powerful, which
is very useful to avoid clipping on things like solo piano.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering
August 9, 2004 10:09:40 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

Stewart Pinkerton wrote:

> On Mon, 09 Aug 2004 04:32:49 GMT, CJT <abujlehc@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Doug wrote:
>>
>>>I am a musician and notice that PA sytems work fine with CD input. Why
>>>can't I just buy a music PA and plug a CD into it for my home system?
>>>I want GOOD sound.
>>
>>PA amps are likely to have features useful for PA applications
>>(e.g. 70 V outputs), and hifi amps are likely to put more emphasis
>>on high fidelity, as implied by their names.
>
>
> However, a decent PA amplifier is sonically indistiguishable from a
> decent 'high fidelity' amplifier, so sound quality isn't really an
> issue. The PA amp is however likely to be a lot more powerful, which
> is very useful to avoid clipping on things like solo piano.

I don't think PA necessarily implies power. They come in all sizes.

A true PA amp is more likely to be optimized for speech frequencies
rather than a broad audio spectrum.

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form che...@prodigy.net.
Anonymous
August 9, 2004 2:06:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

On 8 Aug 2004 21:21:10 -0700, anothername@access4less.net (Doug)
wrote:

>I am a musician and notice that PA sytems work fine with CD input. Why
>can't I just buy a music PA and plug a CD into it for my home system?
>I want GOOD sound.

As far as the power amp goes, you could be right. Note, however,
that a PA amp will be designed for far greater output than a Hi-Fi
amp. It may have a cooling fan which would be audible in a home
situation,

A PA amp will normally be fed from a mixing board. A home system
probably needs a front end with switching for various inputs.

PA SPEAKERS are generally quite unsuitable for home listening.
They're designed to be LOUD, not to be smooth and detailed.

But, yes. A smaller, quality PA amp can be a useful substitute for a
Hi-Fi power amp. And won't be subject to the same silly pricing.
Anonymous
August 9, 2004 2:35:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

"Stewart Pinkerton" <patent3@dircon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:kj3eh05aids885el0263ddn4rrfeuqou14@4ax.com
> On Mon, 09 Aug 2004 04:32:49 GMT, CJT <abujlehc@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
>> Doug wrote:
>>> I am a musician and notice that PA systems work fine with CD input.
>>> Why can't I just buy a music PA and plug a CD into it for my home
>>> system? I want GOOD sound.
>>
>> PA amps are likely to have features useful for PA applications
>> (e.g. 70 V outputs), and hifi amps are likely to put more emphasis
>> on high fidelity, as implied by their names.

70 volt outputs are remarkably rare in modern SR systems. They still show up
in distributed music and true public address (lage building, multiple room)
applications.

> However, a decent PA amplifier is sonically indistinguishable from a
> decent 'high fidelity' amplifier, so sound quality isn't really an
> issue.

Agreed.

>The PA amp is however likely to be a lot more powerful, which
> is very useful to avoid clipping on things like solo piano.

I've used so-called PA amps like the QSC USA 400 in my main audio system for
years.

Here's the things to consider:

(1) PA amps, even those with moderate power, are likely to have cooling fans
that can be noisy. I'm thinking specifically of a Fidek and a Mackie amp
that literally scream at you.

(2) PA amps, as is befitting their professional context, will probably have
balanced inputs, and may have only XLR and/or TRS or 1/4" input jacks. There
not be any RCA jack inputs at all. Adaptors or adaptor cables are indicated.
There's a RCA to 1/4 adaptor that Radio Shack and others sell for like $5 a
pair. They work just fine!

(3) If it seems like it is too good to be true, it's probably is too good to
be true. There are some very low-end, low-cost PA amps that don't even
belong in SR systems, let alone good high fidelity systems. Since they
arguably don't come under the FTC regs, some manufacturers play games with
power ratings. Beware of "Pyramid watts" and other scams.

On balance, there are some so-called "PA" amps from manufacturers like Crown
and Hafler, not to mention QSC and Crest that can sound really good in a
home system.
Anonymous
August 9, 2004 2:47:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

"Doug" <anothername@access4less.net> wrote in message
news:1b3f4ae6.0408082021.5a1d0d0@posting.google.com...
> I am a musician and notice that PA sytems work fine with CD input. Why
> can't I just buy a music PA and plug a CD into it for my home system?
> I want GOOD sound.


Just tried it out for fun with Marantz CD63 mkII > Yamaha P4500 > Goodmans
Magnum. Sounds fine, fan noise low enough level not to be intrusive.

Mike
Anonymous
August 9, 2004 4:22:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

"CJT" <abujlehc@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:41171523.8000606@prodigy.net

> I don't think PA necessarily implies power. They come in all sizes.

Of course they do, but if you compare the number of SR amps with more than
1000 wpc to the number of hi fi amps with 1000 wpc, you'll see what was
being talked about.

> A true PA amp is more likely to be optimized for speech frequencies
> rather than a broad audio spectrum.

Nope.There's just too much rock PA for SR amp manufactuerers to be able to
skimp on bass or treble performance. IOW, PA amps are frequently used to
drive subwoofers and amplify musical instruments, not just voice.
Anonymous
August 9, 2004 7:41:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

On Mon, 09 Aug 2004 06:09:40 GMT, CJT <abujlehc@prodigy.net> wrote:

>Stewart Pinkerton wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 09 Aug 2004 04:32:49 GMT, CJT <abujlehc@prodigy.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Doug wrote:
>>>
>>>>I am a musician and notice that PA sytems work fine with CD input. Why
>>>>can't I just buy a music PA and plug a CD into it for my home system?
>>>>I want GOOD sound.
>>>
>>>PA amps are likely to have features useful for PA applications
>>>(e.g. 70 V outputs), and hifi amps are likely to put more emphasis
>>>on high fidelity, as implied by their names.
>>
>>
>> However, a decent PA amplifier is sonically indistiguishable from a
>> decent 'high fidelity' amplifier, so sound quality isn't really an
>> issue. The PA amp is however likely to be a lot more powerful, which
>> is very useful to avoid clipping on things like solo piano.
>
>I don't think PA necessarily implies power. They come in all sizes.

Indeed, but they are *likely* to be more powerful than the average
'hi-fi' amp.
>
>A true PA amp is more likely to be optimized for speech frequencies
>rather than a broad audio spectrum.

Not true. They often have *additional* features such as specialised EQ
for horn use and for lifting some bands, but under all that, they are
generally good full-range amps. Take a typical reasonably priced unit
such as the 'bottom of the range' Mackie M800:

Cost about $480

Output 2x150 watts into 8 ohms
2x225 watts into 4 ohms
2x280 watts into 2 ohms
All the above are 40-20,000Hz at less than 0.1% THD.

FR 10Hz to 70kHz -3dB, 20Hz to 40kHz -1dB

THD, SMPTE IMD and TIM all below 0.025% up to 150 watts into 8 ohms

Slew rate 40V/usec

I/P sensitivity 1.23 volts for full output into 4 ohms

S/N ratio 104dB below full output into 4 ohms

Transient recovery <1usec for 20dB overdrive at 1kHz (a very important
spec that you never see for 'hi-fi' amps)


The Mackie also has several EQ devices which are targeted at PA, a
very useful 'soft limiter' circuit, and of course it has front panel
level controls, so it can be used with say a CD or Universal player to
make a 'purist' 2-channel system. Basically, it's an excellent
amplifier by any reasonable standard, and it costs less than any
roughly equivalent 'hi-fi' amplifier, such as the Bryston 3B.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering
Anonymous
August 9, 2004 7:47:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

On Mon, 09 Aug 2004 10:06:09 +0100, Laurence Payne
<l@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

>On 8 Aug 2004 21:21:10 -0700, anothername@access4less.net (Doug)
>wrote:
>
>>I am a musician and notice that PA sytems work fine with CD input. Why
>>can't I just buy a music PA and plug a CD into it for my home system?
>>I want GOOD sound.
>
>As far as the power amp goes, you could be right. Note, however,
>that a PA amp will be designed for far greater output than a Hi-Fi
>amp. It may have a cooling fan which would be audible in a home
>situation,
>
>A PA amp will normally be fed from a mixing board. A home system
>probably needs a front end with switching for various inputs.
>
>PA SPEAKERS are generally quite unsuitable for home listening.
>They're designed to be LOUD, not to be smooth and detailed.

So is a Krell 700.............................

There's absolutely no reason why a powerful PA amp can't sound
perfectly smooth and detailed - and many of them do. The only downside
is that they usually have quite noisy cooling fans. Consider that
they'll often be used with highly sensitive horn speakers, so that if
say a ballad is being sung in an indoor theatre, they may only be
putting out a few dozen *milliwatts* - and they still have to sound
good, and convey all the breathy details you expect of a good live
performance.

>But, yes. A smaller, quality PA amp can be a useful substitute for a
>Hi-Fi power amp. And won't be subject to the same silly pricing.

Quite so - compare for example Mackie and Krell pricing for similar
power outputs - and then see if you can tell the difference in sound
quality in a level-controled blind test.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering
August 9, 2004 7:56:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

Stewart Pinkerton wrote:

> On Mon, 09 Aug 2004 06:09:40 GMT, CJT <abujlehc@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Stewart Pinkerton wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Mon, 09 Aug 2004 04:32:49 GMT, CJT <abujlehc@prodigy.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Doug wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I am a musician and notice that PA sytems work fine with CD input. Why
>>>>>can't I just buy a music PA and plug a CD into it for my home system?
>>>>>I want GOOD sound.
>>>>
>>>>PA amps are likely to have features useful for PA applications
>>>>(e.g. 70 V outputs), and hifi amps are likely to put more emphasis
>>>>on high fidelity, as implied by their names.
>>>
>>>
>>>However, a decent PA amplifier is sonically indistiguishable from a
>>>decent 'high fidelity' amplifier, so sound quality isn't really an
>>>issue. The PA amp is however likely to be a lot more powerful, which
>>>is very useful to avoid clipping on things like solo piano.
>>
>>I don't think PA necessarily implies power. They come in all sizes.
>
>
> Indeed, but they are *likely* to be more powerful than the average
> 'hi-fi' amp.
>
>>A true PA amp is more likely to be optimized for speech frequencies
>>rather than a broad audio spectrum.
>
>
> Not true. They often have *additional* features such as specialised EQ
> for horn use and for lifting some bands, but under all that, they are
> generally good full-range amps. Take a typical reasonably priced unit
> such as the 'bottom of the range' Mackie M800:
>
> Cost about $480
>
> Output 2x150 watts into 8 ohms
> 2x225 watts into 4 ohms
> 2x280 watts into 2 ohms
> All the above are 40-20,000Hz at less than 0.1% THD.
>
> FR 10Hz to 70kHz -3dB, 20Hz to 40kHz -1dB
>
> THD, SMPTE IMD and TIM all below 0.025% up to 150 watts into 8 ohms
>
> Slew rate 40V/usec
>
> I/P sensitivity 1.23 volts for full output into 4 ohms
>
> S/N ratio 104dB below full output into 4 ohms
>
> Transient recovery <1usec for 20dB overdrive at 1kHz (a very important
> spec that you never see for 'hi-fi' amps)
>
>
> The Mackie also has several EQ devices which are targeted at PA, a
> very useful 'soft limiter' circuit, and of course it has front panel
> level controls, so it can be used with say a CD or Universal player to
> make a 'purist' 2-channel system. Basically, it's an excellent
> amplifier by any reasonable standard, and it costs less than any
> roughly equivalent 'hi-fi' amplifier, such as the Bryston 3B.

I would distinguish sound reinforcement amps from public address amps.

But the lines do blur.


--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form che...@prodigy.net.
Anonymous
August 9, 2004 8:01:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

Yes, it seems I can get a muscicians Crown PA amp for a lot less than
hifi amps like Anthem etc. If I buy PA style speakers and put in my
living room will it sound as good as an equivalent wattage Athem? And
as a bonus, if the band needs some more PA, I can take it. Also, I can
plug my acoustic/electric into my home PA, and sing through my mic. So
what will I give up?

> Not true. They often have *additional* features such as specialised EQ
> for horn use and for lifting some bands, but under all that, they are
> generally good full-range amps. Take a typical reasonably priced unit
> such as the 'bottom of the range' Mackie M800:
>
> Cost about $480
>
> Output 2x150 watts into 8 ohms
> 2x225 watts into 4 ohms
> 2x280 watts into 2 ohms
> All the above are 40-20,000Hz at less than 0.1% THD.
>
> FR 10Hz to 70kHz -3dB, 20Hz to 40kHz -1dB
>
> THD, SMPTE IMD and TIM all below 0.025% up to 150 watts into 8 ohms
>
> Slew rate 40V/usec
>
> I/P sensitivity 1.23 volts for full output into 4 ohms
>
> S/N ratio 104dB below full output into 4 ohms
>
> Transient recovery <1usec for 20dB overdrive at 1kHz (a very important
> spec that you never see for 'hi-fi' amps)
>
>
> The Mackie also has several EQ devices which are targeted at PA, a
> very useful 'soft limiter' circuit, and of course it has front panel
> level controls, so it can be used with say a CD or Universal player to
> make a 'purist' 2-channel system. Basically, it's an excellent
> amplifier by any reasonable standard, and it costs less than any
> roughly equivalent 'hi-fi' amplifier, such as the Bryston 3B.
Anonymous
August 9, 2004 8:08:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

Can I use a Crown to drive high quality speakers like Klipsh
(spelling?), or should I get PA speakers? Klisph are $1000 each!! or
so. Gosh I could buy a LOT of PA speakers for that. What are the most
expensive Yamaha PA speakers. What I am wondering if there isn't some
inherent diffference in Crown PA amp and an Anthem home hifi amp. It
seems not, but.....

As for hookups, just get a mixing board with gobs of inputs and plug
the CD player in there.

I dunno.

Must be a downside somewhere.
Anonymous
August 9, 2004 8:33:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

Doug wrote:

>Can I use a Crown to drive high quality speakers like Klipsh
>(spelling?),

Yes, or it may be better to say probably, as it may be possible that there
is some Crown amp that is inappropriate to use with some Klipsch (note
spelling) speakers. Except in cases of extreme over- or under-power, though,
I suspect that the answer is "Yes."

> or should I get PA speakers? Klisph are $1000 each!! or
>so. Gosh I could buy a LOT of PA speakers for that. What are the most
>expensive Yamaha PA speakers. What I am wondering if there isn't some
>inherent diffference in Crown PA amp and an Anthem home hifi amp. It
>seems not, but.....

Have you not been reading the previous responses in this thread? The
primary differences between amplifers intended for PA and hi-fi use is
their ancillary features. The function of their power output sections
differ little if at all.

>As for hookups, just get a mixing board with gobs of inputs and plug
>the CD player in there.

That would be one way. Another would be to simply connect a CD player's
output to an amplifier's input if the signal level, I/O impedances, and
format are compatible.

>I dunno.
>
>Must be a downside somewhere.

Again, the ancillary features of PA amplifers may make them unsuitable
for hi-fi use. These may include things such as signal I/O issues,
cooling techniques, enclosure format, and more.

--
========================================================================
Michael Kesti | "And like, one and one don't make
| two, one and one make one."
mkesti@gv.net | - The Who, Bargain
Anonymous
August 9, 2004 10:32:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

On Mon, 9 Aug 2004 15:47:29 +0000 (UTC), Stewart Pinkerton
<patent3@dircon.co.uk> wrote:

>>
>>PA SPEAKERS are generally quite unsuitable for home listening.
>>They're designed to be LOUD, not to be smooth and detailed.
>
>So is a Krell 700.............................

A Krell 700 is a SPEAKER, all of a sudden? :-)
Anonymous
August 10, 2004 2:22:51 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

On Mon, 09 Aug 2004 18:32:21 +0100, Laurence Payne
<l@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

>On Mon, 9 Aug 2004 15:47:29 +0000 (UTC), Stewart Pinkerton
><patent3@dircon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>>
>>>PA SPEAKERS are generally quite unsuitable for home listening.
>>>They're designed to be LOUD, not to be smooth and detailed.
>>
>>So is a Krell 700.............................
>
>A Krell 700 is a SPEAKER, all of a sudden? :-)

Ah, missed your sudden change in direction, since the thread was about
amplifiers. OTOH, the best PA SPEAKERS have significantly lower
distortion than so-called 'high-end' speakers.......................
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering
Anonymous
August 10, 2004 3:40:50 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

"CJT" <abujlehc@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:41171523.8000606@prodigy.net...
> I don't think PA necessarily implies power. They come in all sizes.

Right.

> A true PA amp is more likely to be optimized for speech frequencies
> rather than a broad audio spectrum.

That would be a pretty narrow definition of PA!
IME the main differences between real PA amps and HiFi amps are :
Mechanical construction is usually more rugged for life on the road.
Fans are more likely to be used for sustained output without a large size
penalty.
Inputs are usually balanced, but of course can be used unbalanced.
Rack mounting designs with less emphasis on looks.

Many amps have been sold in both HiFi shops and Pro-audio shops over the
years.

TonyP.
Anonymous
August 10, 2004 3:53:59 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

In article <1b3f4ae6.0408091501.16a267cf@posting.google.com>,
Doug <anothername@access4less.net> wrote:

>Yes, it seems I can get a muscicians Crown PA amp for a lot less than
>hifi amps like Anthem etc. If I buy PA style speakers and put in my
>living room will it sound as good as an equivalent wattage Athem?

I think you're making a fundamental error here.

You seem to be thinking "Ah, if a PA amp is essentially equivalent to
a hi-fi amp, then PA speakers are essentially equivalent to hi-fi
speakers."

That's not a good assumption. PA speakers are usually designed for a
rather different set of goals - "sound reinforcement" in a large open
space. I believe they tend to be optimized for efficiency, and
ruggedness... with flat frequency response being somewhat of a
secondary concern.

I think you'd probably find them to be a good deal more "colored"
(non-flat frequency response, other artifacts) than a good set of
hi-fi speakers, when used in a home environment.

Now, what you almost certainly can do, is buy a good set of hi-fi
speakers, and a good sound-reinforcement ("PA") amplifier, and have
very satisfactory results.

If you then want to run some extra sound for a band, you could take
the sound-reinforcement amp, and plug it into a set of PA speakers,
and use this combination on stage.

There is one thing about sound-reinforcement / PA amps which you ought
to be aware of. Many (most?) of them use fans to blow air over their
heatsinks. If you buy a PA amp with a fan that runs all of the time,
you may find that the fan noise is annoying when the amp is used in a
home environment. Some amps have fans which are switchable (either
manually, or via an automatic thermostat). Such amps may run cool
enough, when used at low average power levels, that the fans don't
need to be switched on, and wouldn't suffer from fan noise.

--
Dave Platt <dplatt@radagast.org> AE6EO
Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!
Anonymous
August 10, 2004 6:05:52 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

On 9 Aug 2004 16:08:14 -0700, anothername@access4less.net (Doug)
wrote:

>Can I use a Crown to drive high quality speakers like Klipsh
>(spelling?), or should I get PA speakers? Klisph are $1000 each!! or
>so. Gosh I could buy a LOT of PA speakers for that. What are the most
>expensive Yamaha PA speakers. What I am wondering if there isn't some
>inherent diffference in Crown PA amp and an Anthem home hifi amp. It
>seems not, but.....
>
>As for hookups, just get a mixing board with gobs of inputs and plug
>the CD player in there.

Yup. Recorded music you listen to was almost certainly recorded
through something like that. It won't hurt the music to pass through
another one.

Speakers? As always, try before you buy. A lot of PA speakers can
sound rather rough in a living room. You might find it interesting to
look at speakers sold as studio monitors rather than ones sold as
hi-end hi-fi. Even a medium-priced pair of nearfield monitors placed
the right distance from your ears (a few feet) may give you a VERY
pleasant surprise.

My nearfields, for non-musical reasons, had been crammed in under a
shelf, near a wall, with a large crt monitor between them. I knew
this wasn't optimum. But, having got rid of some clutter, moving
them to an unimpeded position, with no wall near and more than half
the room behind them as free space made even more difference than I
expected. It's not only Quad ELS that blossom with such treatment
:-)
Anonymous
August 10, 2004 9:48:43 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

On 9 Aug 2004 16:08:14 -0700, anothername@access4less.net (Doug)
wrote:

>Can I use a Crown to drive high quality speakers like Klipsh
>(spelling?), or should I get PA speakers? Klisph are $1000 each!! or
>so. Gosh I could buy a LOT of PA speakers for that.

And sure enough - you get what you pay for. Be aware that $1,000 is
peanuts in the world of high-quality speakers.

> What are the most
>expensive Yamaha PA speakers. What I am wondering if there isn't some
>inherent diffference in Crown PA amp and an Anthem home hifi amp. It
>seems not, but.....
>
>As for hookups, just get a mixing board with gobs of inputs and plug
>the CD player in there.
>
>I dunno.
>
>Must be a downside somewhere.

Not in the amps, but PA speakers may not be what you want for domestic
music replay. There's a reason why you can buy a lot of PA speakers
for the price of one pair of good hi-fi speakers. To be honest, I
wouldn't include Klipsch in the 'good' category, but they are indeed
LOUDspeakers if that's your thing.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering
Anonymous
August 14, 2004 6:37:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

>
>I am a musician and notice that PA sytems work fine with CD input. Why
>can't I just buy a music PA and plug a CD into it for my home system?
>I want GOOD sound.
>



There is very little difference between good "PA" power amplifiers and "hifi"
amplifiers.

However most PA amps are designed for a professional level on the input of
+4dBm or higher las opposed to the consumer level of -10dBV which is a
difference of almost 12 dB in sensitivity.

If you are using a mixing board as opposed to a hifi preamp for the front end,
there is no problem at all.

Many hifi amps have been used for PA use and vice-versa. Crown, Phase Linear,
Hafler have all shared these uses.


Richard H. Kuschel
"I canna change the law of physics."-----Scotty
Anonymous
August 16, 2004 6:41:41 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

People have been using hi end Pro Audio amps in home stereos and recording
studio environments for years
Bryston 4B are still sought after.
H&H800's are amazing sounding mosfet amps.
I think the difference is in the build quality.
a good SR amp is built in a strong chassis that is meant to be rack mounted,
home stereo equipment is usually far too flimsy for life on the road.
the other difference is Balanced inputs on SR amps and the unbalanced inputs
on the home stereo amps.

Doug

"Doug" <anothername@access4less.net> wrote in message
news:1b3f4ae6.0408082021.5a1d0d0@posting.google.com...
> I am a musician and notice that PA sytems work fine with CD input. Why
> can't I just buy a music PA and plug a CD into it for my home system?
> I want GOOD sound.
January 3, 2013 3:11:59 PM

Quote:
Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

Can I use a Crown to drive high quality speakers like Klipsh
(spelling?), or should I get PA speakers? Klisph are $1000 each!! or
so. Gosh I could buy a LOT of PA speakers for that. What are the most
expensive Yamaha PA speakers. What I am wondering if there isn't some
inherent diffference in Crown PA amp and an Anthem home hifi amp. It
seems not, but.....

As for hookups, just get a mixing board with gobs of inputs and plug
the CD player in there.

I dunno.

Must be a downside somewhere.

I run a yorkville 400 a side stereo pa with 4 peavy sp5g speakers,and a 700 sub. it sounds awesome,no fan noise.even at low volume clairity is supurb.the only down side is you must use a sub or it will sound thin and pressurized.I will never buy house speakers or amps again! try playing pink flyod ,you will find that you can maximize your gain to a stupid level.now lay on the floor and feel just what your realy missing with a house stereo!!!!!
January 4, 2013 2:35:37 AM

Quote:
Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

I am a musician and notice that PA sytems work fine with CD input. Why
can't I just buy a music PA and plug a CD into it for my home system?
I want GOOD sound.


Your hi fi amp is designed for conservative careful usage. The speakers blow easily.
A PA amp is designed to be thrown off a truck, by roadies. Then they pour beer in it, and it still works...
Now do you understand?

Well you most certainly CAN.
I bought EV Centuries at a Garage sale, for $50.
Then I tri amped them...and used a pair of JBL bookshelf speakers for midrange...
you could hear this 2 blocks away, but it still sounded good.
The neighbors loved it.
This was a combo of professional and home equipment, which cost very low, but sounded killer.

HK home 5 channel surround amp. Stereo left right highs and mids, mono lows.
Rane electronic crossover, 3 way.
Now it IS just about like a real PA. Only it sounds like a studio monitor.
January 4, 2013 3:48:54 AM

This post was started on 2004 but anyway. Let's go back to your to the first question. "What is the diff between hi-fi amps and PA amps ".
Hi-fi amp designed for Hi-fi speakers works perfectly fine for home system because its not meant to run long wires. Hi-Fi sounds better in low decibels.

PA amps are design for public/industrial system because its meant to be driven hard or wired in lengthy runs. Depending on type of PA system is better soundings on higher decibels because it overcome others environmental noise.

Try comparing an high-end Hi-Fi to a regular PA system then you'll be comparing a Ferrari to a Bus. While a High-end PA system to an low budget Hi-Fi, is like comparing a first class/ ultra expensive limo to a regular sedan.
January 4, 2013 3:52:33 AM

And yes, you can use regular speakers to a PA Amp or vice versa but OHMs law and Joule's law still applies.
January 4, 2013 1:58:06 PM

rexter said:
This post was started on 2004 but anyway. Let's go back to your to the first question. "What is the diff between hi-fi amps and PA amps ".
Hi-fi amp designed for Hi-fi speakers works perfectly fine for home system because its not meant to run long wires. Hi-Fi sounds better in low decibels.

PA amps are design for public/industrial system because its meant to be driven hard or wired in lengthy runs. Depending on type of PA system is better soundings on higher decibels because it overcome others environmental noise.

Try comparing an high-end Hi-Fi to a regular PA system then you'll be comparing a Ferrari to a Bus. While a High-end PA system to an low budget Hi-Fi, is like comparing a first class/ ultra expensive limo to a regular sedan.


A home hi fi can use long wires, just the same as a PA system.
You are talking about a 70 volt system, with transformers? Then you need 70 volt speakers too. (I think this is where you are confused)
But the wire length is never the issue. It's the same for both, hi fi OR PA.
January 11, 2013 12:43:44 PM

Most Hi-Fi system don't have 70 volts, it starts with 20V (Mini). While standard of PA system start at 40 volts. Yes you can use both system doing what they're not meant for but at what cost. Would you go installing a hi-fi system to an Auditorium? and a PA system to a 8X10 Room? A typical PA main speaker might only have a +/- 3db response at 60-18k Hz. but output is at least 98db of 1w per 1m, even that, the bass response rarely goes below 50Hz. That's really not what you want in small romm of 8x10 but then you can argue about it having a volume and add EQ or a Sub system. At the same price comparison - PA has higher distortion than a hi-fi and they make up for the higher output they produce. And I'm not confuse between the two.
May 3, 2013 5:36:38 AM

I know what you're thinking and toyed with that idea myself, a PA amp in the house. Don't do it. A PA Amp is grainy and overpowered for your little 20' square or small living room ! Any consumer grade mid-fi Sony, Pioneer, Kenwood, Akai, etc. hi-fi stereo receiver is loud enough to make you go deaf at home. Ask me how I know. I'm 51 and have been listening to music for 40 years. When you get older you'll be turning it down and the most you need is about 10 watts, because your ears start ringing and tinnitus sets in as you age- and all you really need then is about 5 watts per channel. Beyond that the sound actually becomes irritating or painful. Get my drift ?

The rage now is sound quality and tone, and a hi-fi stereo amp has it in spades over a PA amp- and a single ended tube stereo amp trumps them both. Hi fi stereo amps have TONE AMPS in them, to attenuate and eq the recording and smooth it out and make it sound like music. PA amps are made to throw maximum watts into an arena at 50,000 people and grandstands that soak it up and absorb it- or into huge halls or theaters.

putting a PA amp in your house, is like hunting squirrels with an Abrams tank instead of a 22 rifle- sure you can do it, but your ears will end up like the squirrel.

I've had quite a few high powered amps including PA amps in my house, and sold them all off except a Pioneer SX-1250 that has 160 watts/channel. That gathers dust, and for the past 10 years I've been listening to a single ended tube stereo with 8 watts/channel. It sounds better, more detailed, musical, and the tone is way better than any PA amp.

plug a Strat into a Tremolux amp, and turn it up to 10, and put your ear against the speaker, and hammer a G barre power chord- that's your ears on a PA amp trying to listen to your favorite vinyl or tape or CD at home.

it's actually pretty dumb to do, and the only reason I can see ever doing it, is if you had a big outdoor party in your backyard over the space of a couple acres. A 100-150 WPC range solid state high quality hi-fi receiver can do everything you would ever need for home audio.

"good" sound isn't about power and volume, it's about tone. I had a NAD power amp that made my ears sound like someone sanded them with 40 grit paper, even when I listened to it low volume. I have an LP, tape, CD collection of several thousand LP's spanning 1950's to 1980's and listened to music a LOT, and demo'd tons of amps and receivers.

take my word for it. You don't need or want a PA amp in your house. Sound quality will suffer and so will your hearing. My ears ring constantly from just the thing you are thinking about doing. Use less watts with a better tone, not more.
!