recording drums on two tracks

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

Just for the record I'd like to say that recording drums on two tracks
is madness. Eight tracks are pretty limiting. Especially on the
machines that let you just record on two tracks. Maybe if I was good
at recording, good at listening to drums, I'd suffer less grief. But
for me, the drums mix is always a bit sour in mixdown -- too much
ride, too little snare, too little toms, etc. And I can't adjust
anything, so the only choice is bringing my drummer back in, begging
my roommate out of the house for a weekend, setting everything up
again, and then spending another weekend recording only to find that
the kick drum has disappeared. I'm going crazy.
27 answers Last reply
More about recording drums tracks
  1. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    Ha ha. Yeah, it can be tough. What you want to try to do is to mix the drums
    correctly *before* you actually start recording them. I'm sorry, but what
    you're doing just sounds stupid. There are actually a couple of other
    newsgroups that are tailor-made for newbies and/or people that just seem to
    grasp the basics. Check out harmony central, and you'll be able to find a
    newsgroup more suited to your limited needs. We don't really deal with
    questions from people that have roommates and 2 track recorders here. Hope this
    helps. And good luck!
  2. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    What you may want to try to achieve is a way of mixing the drums with some
    reference of the other instruments and vocal. This will not lock you into
    having to cater to a mediocre drum mix. I couldn't be sure what kind of
    equipment you have or what level you are at, but you should most certainly
    get yourself at least an inexpensive multitrack DAW, which will complement
    your analog recorder or maybe even render it obsolete! Some of the powerful
    Software packages can be a little intimidating if you're new to it all but
    it's the ticket to pro sounding mixes if you're eager to spend the time.

    Neil R

    "Youngsexcandy" <youngsexcandy@aol.com> wrote in message
    news:20040816010108.24921.00001082@mb-m20.aol.com...
    > Ha ha. Yeah, it can be tough. What you want to try to do is to mix the
    drums
    > correctly *before* you actually start recording them. I'm sorry, but what
    > you're doing just sounds stupid. There are actually a couple of other
    > newsgroups that are tailor-made for newbies and/or people that just seem
    to
    > grasp the basics. Check out harmony central, and you'll be able to find a
    > newsgroup more suited to your limited needs. We don't really deal with
    > questions from people that have roommates and 2 track recorders here. Hope
    this
    > helps. And good luck!
  3. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    In article <e6236419.0408152035.c7e9e31@posting.google.com> ot7doc@yahoo.com writes:

    > Just for the record I'd like to say that recording drums on two tracks
    > is madness.

    Then what do you call recording the whole band on two, or even one
    track? They did that for a long time, and I'll bet you've even heard
    some of those recordings and liked the sound.

    > Eight tracks are pretty limiting. Especially on the
    > machines that let you just record on two tracks.

    I'll admit that when you're trying to record multitrack, being able to
    record only two tracks at once is a hard way to go, but that isn't
    really multitrack recording, it's one- or two-track recording with a
    lot of overdubbing and mixing later.

    > Maybe if I was good
    > at recording, good at listening to drums, I'd suffer less grief.

    That's the ticket!


    --
    I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
    However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
    lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
    you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
    and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
  4. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

    On 15 Aug 2004 21:35:10 -0700, ot7doc@yahoo.com (Nat) wrote:

    >Just for the record I'd like to say that recording drums on two tracks
    >is madness. Eight tracks are pretty limiting. Especially on the
    >machines that let you just record on two tracks. Maybe if I was good
    >at recording, good at listening to drums, I'd suffer less grief. But
    >for me, the drums mix is always a bit sour in mixdown -- too much
    >ride, too little snare, too little toms, etc. And I can't adjust
    >anything, so the only choice is bringing my drummer back in, begging
    >my roommate out of the house for a weekend, setting everything up
    >again, and then spending another weekend recording only to find that
    >the kick drum has disappeared. I'm going crazy.


    Is it the recording, or is it the drummer?

    Is he "laying down tracks" in isolation, or playing as part of a
    musical performance? Perhaps he just isn't leaving room for other
    instruments.

    CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
    "Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect
  5. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    >We don't really deal with
    >questions from people that have roommates and 2 track recorders here.
    Hope this
    >helps. And good luck!

    I dunno if even have anything to say to this ^ I thought that was the
    point of the group. At any rate I think we do deal with questions like
    this.... often.

    I think a lot can be done with 2 tracks on drums. Hell I've had great
    success with one mic. Don't think you're limited by you mic selection
    or your hardware. Much can be done with so little. I remember reading
    an interview with Phill Ramone i believe, he said something to the
    effect "All you need is one SM57 and creativity" Just be creative.
    Also think about the song and what it needs for the recording. All to
    often I would get caught up with getting "THE" tone for the drums or
    guitar and it would sound great by itself but didn't fit the song. As
    a friend put it "It sounds great.... And if i was going to buy a CD
    that was just drums that sounded awesome i think this would be it. But
    it's just too good sounding for my songs." We ended up using on 57
    pointed into the kit and that ended up fitting the song better. No I
    find the sound of a couple mic's and a good drummer in the right
    location to be far more pleasing.


    cheers
    garrett


    mrivers@d-and-d.com (Mike Rivers) wrote in message news:<znr1092657979k@trad>...
    > In article <e6236419.0408152035.c7e9e31@posting.google.com> ot7doc@yahoo.com writes:
    >
    > > Just for the record I'd like to say that recording drums on two tracks
    > > is madness.
    >
    > Then what do you call recording the whole band on two, or even one
    > track? They did that for a long time, and I'll bet you've even heard
    > some of those recordings and liked the sound.
    >
    > > Eight tracks are pretty limiting. Especially on the
    > > machines that let you just record on two tracks.
    >
    > I'll admit that when you're trying to record multitrack, being able to
    > record only two tracks at once is a hard way to go, but that isn't
    > really multitrack recording, it's one- or two-track recording with a
    > lot of overdubbing and mixing later.
    >
    > > Maybe if I was good
    > > at recording, good at listening to drums, I'd suffer less grief.
    >
    > That's the ticket!
  6. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

    Nat <ot7doc@yahoo.com> wrote:
    >Just for the record I'd like to say that recording drums on two tracks
    >is madness. Eight tracks are pretty limiting. Especially on the
    >machines that let you just record on two tracks.

    Hell, I use two tracks for the whole orchestra half the time. I don't
    get the need for ukubillion drum submixes. Either the drums sound good
    and are appropriate for the mix or they aren't.

    >Maybe if I was good
    >at recording, good at listening to drums, I'd suffer less grief. But
    >for me, the drums mix is always a bit sour in mixdown -- too much
    >ride, too little snare, too little toms, etc. And I can't adjust
    >anything, so the only choice is bringing my drummer back in, begging
    >my roommate out of the house for a weekend, setting everything up
    >again, and then spending another weekend recording only to find that
    >the kick drum has disappeared. I'm going crazy.

    To some extent you can deal with that sort of thing with EQ, but my
    suggestion is to keep trying, and also to try and listen to some
    commercial recording and JUST listen to the drums and how the drums
    fall into the mix. Get practice at isolating the different tracks
    in your head.
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  7. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

    With a decent drummer and a reasonable room, you can get a great drum
    sound with one overhead and a kick. I was messing around with this
    just the other day... I had four mics set up, but when I played it
    back with just the OH and the kick alone, it sounded great. The thing
    is that the drummer has to be able to balance the kit with how he
    plays it.

    Al

    On 15 Aug 2004 21:35:10 -0700, ot7doc@yahoo.com (Nat) wrote:

    >Just for the record I'd like to say that recording drums on two tracks
    >is madness. Eight tracks are pretty limiting. Especially on the
    >machines that let you just record on two tracks. Maybe if I was good
    >at recording, good at listening to drums, I'd suffer less grief. But
    >for me, the drums mix is always a bit sour in mixdown -- too much
    >ride, too little snare, too little toms, etc. And I can't adjust
    >anything, so the only choice is bringing my drummer back in, begging
    >my roommate out of the house for a weekend, setting everything up
    >again, and then spending another weekend recording only to find that
    >the kick drum has disappeared. I'm going crazy.
  8. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    "Youngsexcandy" <youngsexcandy@aol.com> wrote in message
    > We don't really deal with
    > questions from people that have roommates and 2 track recorders here. Hope
    this
    > helps. And good luck!

    I stop reading RAP for a week and now we have a new king? Why are you the
    spokesman and why do you think that beginning home recordists have no place
    here? Because of the low traffic flow in alt.audio.4-track I eventually
    unsubscribed. I like having many diverse people all with different ideas
    such as here in RAP. It's a much larger knowledge base.

    Are you telling me that there will be no more replies to the "What's the
    best vocal mic?" threads?
  9. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

    "Nat" <ot7doc@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:e6236419.0408152035.c7e9e31@posting.google.com...
    > Just for the record I'd like to say that recording drums on two tracks
    > is madness.

    Madness that was a luxury 35 years ago!

    The cleverest method I ever ran into for an 8 track recording of a rock band
    was overhead, rack toms and kick on one track and snare and floor tom mikes
    on another. This lets you use a combination of eq. and balance between the
    two tracks to achieve a great mono drum sound.

    --
    Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery, Nashville TN
    Mastering, Audio for Picture, Mix Evaluation and Quality Control
    Over 40 years making people sound better than they ever imagined!
    615.385.8051 http://www.hyperback.com
  10. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

    > Madness that was a luxury 35 years ago!

    I'll tell you what, google groups is a luxury. Wow. I really
    appreciate all the advice -- thanks so much for the replies. My
    drummer and I are going into a marathon session this weekend and I
    hope to incorporate a lot of your suggestions.

    This album is only my second, and it's my first time tackling drums,
    but then even imperfectly recorded acoustic drums knock the socks of
    that drum machine I used last time.

    Lucky for me, I have a technically excellent drummer playing with me,
    and he's nice enough not to have killed me yet for all my retries. So
    I have some faith...

    Thanks again.
  11. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

    > Madness that was a luxury 35 years ago!

    I'll tell you what, google groups is a luxury. Wow. I really
    appreciate all the advice -- thanks so much for the replies. My
    drummer and I are going into a marathon session this weekend and I
    hope to incorporate a lot of your suggestions.

    This album is only my second, and it's my first time tackling drums,
    but then even imperfectly recorded acoustic drums knock the socks of
    that drum machine I used last time.

    Lucky for me, I have a technically excellent drummer playing with me,
    and he's nice enough not to have killed me yet for all my retries. So
    I have some faith...

    Thanks again.
  12. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    .. We don't really deal with
    > questions from people that have roommates and 2 track recorders here. Hope
    this
    > helps. And good luck!

    Whatever....

    Anyway, it sounds like maybe your drummer needs to get it in his head that
    HE is mixing the drums.

    Tell him to stop beating the piss out of "anything made of metal", and tell
    him to deliberately and consitently whack "anything with a skin on".

    IOW - lighten up on the hats and cymbals, and hit the drums themselves real
    nice and firm so they 'speak' properly.

    Get the blend in the room that you are after.

    I got a great drum sound in the weekend just gone with 4 mics :

    Coles 4038 as a single overhead, above the snare, about 6' higher than the
    snare

    A pair of Oktavas' on either side of the drummers head, like a pair of ears

    AKG D112 in the kick.


    Most of the sound was the kick and the Oktavas, with some squeezed overhead
    for ambience.

    Basically it sounded good because the drummer plays real well, and his kit
    sounds really nice.

    Also check out Fletchers site www.mercenary.com for some great drum
    recording tips.


    Generally, if it sounds good in the room you are off to a good start.

    Tuning them nicely helps too - google for "Drum Tuning" and see what you
    learn.


    Good luck!

    Geoff


    ---
    Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
    Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
    Version: 6.0.737 / Virus Database: 491 - Release Date: 8/11/2004
  13. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

    I would try to record with 2 o/h mics and the kick
    just for some space
    then hard pan those 2 mics and leave the kick down the center.
    and mix down to 2 tracks
    almost no thinking to how to get it to come out right.

    "playonATcomcast.net" <playon@comcast.net> wrote in message
    news:rj72i0haf1mhoif7d3ei9f357gf5k8fce5@4ax.com...
    > With a decent drummer and a reasonable room, you can get a great drum
    > sound with one overhead and a kick. I was messing around with this
    > just the other day... I had four mics set up, but when I played it
    > back with just the OH and the kick alone, it sounded great. The thing
    > is that the drummer has to be able to balance the kit with how he
    > plays it.
    >
    > Al
    >
    > On 15 Aug 2004 21:35:10 -0700, ot7doc@yahoo.com (Nat) wrote:
    >
    > >Just for the record I'd like to say that recording drums on two tracks
    > >is madness. Eight tracks are pretty limiting. Especially on the
    > >machines that let you just record on two tracks. Maybe if I was good
    > >at recording, good at listening to drums, I'd suffer less grief. But
    > >for me, the drums mix is always a bit sour in mixdown -- too much
    > >ride, too little snare, too little toms, etc. And I can't adjust
    > >anything, so the only choice is bringing my drummer back in, begging
    > >my roommate out of the house for a weekend, setting everything up
    > >again, and then spending another weekend recording only to find that
    > >the kick drum has disappeared. I'm going crazy.
    >
  14. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

    In article <%LvUc.133114$J06.132726@pd7tw2no>, Doug Schultz
    <Douglas_Schultz@hotmail.com> wrote:

    > I would try to record with 2 o/h mics and the kick
    > just for some space
    > then hard pan those 2 mics and leave the kick down the center.
    > and mix down to 2 tracks
    > almost no thinking to how to get it to come out right.


    Depending on how it sounds and what kinda mic technique you use, you
    may want to pan the 2 overheads in slightly if the stereo image is
    making things sound a little wishy washy. Can tighten things up in your
    mix, depending obviously on what you get.


    David Correia
    Celebration Sound
    Warren, Rhode Island

    CelebrationSound@aol.com
    www.CelebrationSound.com
  15. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

    Nat wrote:
    > Just for the record I'd like to say that recording drums on two tracks
    > is madness. Eight tracks are pretty limiting. Especially on the
    > machines that let you just record on two tracks. Maybe if I was good
    > at recording, good at listening to drums, I'd suffer less grief. But
    > for me, the drums mix is always a bit sour in mixdown -- too much
    > ride, too little snare, too little toms, etc. And I can't adjust
    > anything, so the only choice is bringing my drummer back in, begging
    > my roommate out of the house for a weekend, setting everything up
    > again, and then spending another weekend recording only to find that
    > the kick drum has disappeared. I'm going crazy.

    I've had success with an A-B pair of omni's in front of the drum kit,
    placed at the height of the top of kick drum. It needs a good, large
    room though.

    Stig Erik Tangen
  16. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

    "david" <ihate@spamo.com> wrote in message
    news:170820041935459483%ihate@spamo.com...
    > In article <%LvUc.133114$J06.132726@pd7tw2no>, Doug Schultz
    > <Douglas_Schultz@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >
    > > I would try to record with 2 o/h mics and the kick
    > > just for some space
    > > then hard pan those 2 mics and leave the kick down the center.
    > > and mix down to 2 tracks
    > > almost no thinking to how to get it to come out right.
    >
    >
    > Depending on how it sounds and what kinda mic technique you use, you
    > may want to pan the 2 overheads in slightly if the stereo image is
    > making things sound a little wishy washy. Can tighten things up in your
    > mix, depending obviously on what you get.


    You are right of course. I very rarely pan all the way and I was just typing
    in a hurry should have been more precise. with drum mixes I start at the 3
    and 9 o'clock positions and then see how bad the phasing is and move them in
    from there.

    Doug
  17. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

    I never tried that. I like that idea and I'm looking forward to testing it out.


    "Doug Schultz" <Douglas_Schultz@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<SdKUc.141902$gE.9298@pd7tw3no>...
    > "david" <ihate@spamo.com> wrote in message
    > news:170820041935459483%ihate@spamo.com...
    > > In article <%LvUc.133114$J06.132726@pd7tw2no>, Doug Schultz
    > > <Douglas_Schultz@hotmail.com> wrote:
    > >
    > > > I would try to record with 2 o/h mics and the kick
    > > > just for some space
    > > > then hard pan those 2 mics and leave the kick down the center.
    > > > and mix down to 2 tracks
    > > > almost no thinking to how to get it to come out right.
    > >
    > >
    > > Depending on how it sounds and what kinda mic technique you use, you
    > > may want to pan the 2 overheads in slightly if the stereo image is
    > > making things sound a little wishy washy. Can tighten things up in your
    > > mix, depending obviously on what you get.
    >
    >
    > You are right of course. I very rarely pan all the way and I was just typing
    > in a hurry should have been more precise. with drum mixes I start at the 3
    > and 9 o'clock positions and then see how bad the phasing is and move them in
    > from there.
    >
    > Doug
  18. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

    I never tried that. I like that idea and I'm looking forward to testing it out.


    "Doug Schultz" <Douglas_Schultz@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<SdKUc.141902$gE.9298@pd7tw3no>...
    > "david" <ihate@spamo.com> wrote in message
    > news:170820041935459483%ihate@spamo.com...
    > > In article <%LvUc.133114$J06.132726@pd7tw2no>, Doug Schultz
    > > <Douglas_Schultz@hotmail.com> wrote:
    > >
    > > > I would try to record with 2 o/h mics and the kick
    > > > just for some space
    > > > then hard pan those 2 mics and leave the kick down the center.
    > > > and mix down to 2 tracks
    > > > almost no thinking to how to get it to come out right.
    > >
    > >
    > > Depending on how it sounds and what kinda mic technique you use, you
    > > may want to pan the 2 overheads in slightly if the stereo image is
    > > making things sound a little wishy washy. Can tighten things up in your
    > > mix, depending obviously on what you get.
    >
    >
    > You are right of course. I very rarely pan all the way and I was just typing
    > in a hurry should have been more precise. with drum mixes I start at the 3
    > and 9 o'clock positions and then see how bad the phasing is and move them in
    > from there.
    >
    > Doug
  19. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

    ot7doc@yahoo.com (Nat) wrote in message news:<e6236419.0408152035.c7e9e31@posting.google.com>...
    > Just for the record I'd like to say that recording drums on two tracks
    > is madness. Eight tracks are pretty limiting. Especially on the
    > machines that let you just record on two tracks. Maybe if I was good
    > at recording, good at listening to drums, I'd suffer less grief. But
    > for me, the drums mix is always a bit sour in mixdown -- too much
    > ride, too little snare, too little toms, etc. And I can't adjust
    > anything, so the only choice is bringing my drummer back in, begging
    > my roommate out of the house for a weekend, setting everything up
    > again, and then spending another weekend recording only to find that
    > the kick drum has disappeared. I'm going crazy.

    Nat, are you looking for ways to record the entire kit with 2 mics,
    or, are you trying to improve the stereo submix of drums that you're
    forced to do because you only have 8 tracks? I'm guessing it's the
    latter of the 2. One thing someone else touched on is getting a sense
    of how the drums sit with other instrumentation, even if just scratch
    tracks, in the mix. I mic drums with 3 mics and submix to a mono
    track, and I have found out the hard way that setting levels to what
    sounds like a 'real" kit when bouncing will leave your track kick shy
    and snare shy at mixdown. So I usually make the kick and snare a
    *little* louder in the bounce, to where it almost seems too loud, so
    that they don't disappear after I add 6 guitars, tambourine, handclaps
    and vocals!
  20. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

    > Nat, are you looking for ways to record the entire kit with 2 mics,
    > or, are you trying to improve the stereo submix of drums that you're
    > forced to do because you only have 8 tracks? I'm guessing it's the
    > latter of the 2. One thing someone else touched on is getting a sense
    > of how the drums sit with other instrumentation, even if just scratch
    > tracks, in the mix. I mic drums with 3 mics and submix to a mono
    > track, and I have found out the hard way that setting levels to what
    > sounds like a 'real" kit when bouncing will leave your track kick shy
    > and snare shy at mixdown. So I usually make the kick and snare a
    > *little* louder in the bounce, to where it almost seems too loud, so
    > that they don't disappear after I add 6 guitars, tambourine, handclaps
    > and vocals!

    Yeah, it's the latter. I understand that a lot of songs are recorded
    starting with the drums, but I -- for better and worse -- have been
    recording drums lately after I have other tracks down... I think my
    drummer prefers it, and it has worked out so far. He's got good,
    strict, click-track timing, so there's not too many timing problems
    for me doing it that way. So, as of late, I actually have mixed most
    of my drums in the context of the song itself. In the past, I've had
    problems with the snare being too quiet in the mix, and I wonder now
    if I was just working for a perfect set sound at the time without
    hearing it as part of the mix as a whole.
  21. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    In article <e6236419.0408191827.7c15338@posting.google.com> ot7doc@yahoo.com writes:

    > I -- for better and worse -- have been
    > recording drums lately after I have other tracks down... I think my
    > drummer prefers it, and it has worked out so far. He's got good,
    > strict, click-track timing, so there's not too many timing problems
    > for me doing it that way.

    How do you get good, strict click-track timing without a drummer? Or
    are your other tracks machine-generated? Most real musicians are much
    more comfortable playing to a drummer than to a click track, even if
    it's a drum machine.

    > In the past, I've had
    > problems with the snare being too quiet in the mix, and I wonder now
    > if I was just working for a perfect set sound at the time without
    > hearing it as part of the mix as a whole.

    That's it. But it may not be that the snare is too quiet, it could be
    that something else is too loud, masking the snare. By raising the
    level of the snare, you then have a "level spike" which, unless you
    limit it, will reduce the maximum apparent loudness that you can
    achieve. Maximum loudness may not be your goal, but it's the goal of
    many.


    --
    I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
    However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
    lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
    you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
    and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
  22. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

    On 19 Aug 2004 19:27:00 -0700, ot7doc@yahoo.com (Nat) wrote:

    > So, as of late, I actually have mixed most
    >of my drums in the context of the song itself. In the past, I've had
    >problems with the snare being too quiet in the mix, and I wonder now
    >if I was just working for a perfect set sound at the time without
    >hearing it as part of the mix as a whole.

    Careful! That's thinking like a musician. They'll kick you out of
    the Recording Engineers' Guild :-)
  23. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

    > How do you get good, strict click-track timing without a drummer? Or
    > are your other tracks machine-generated? Most real musicians are much
    > more comfortable playing to a drummer than to a click track, even if
    > it's a drum machine.

    I play most of the parts myself, and I don't mind playing to a drum
    machine. Then my drummer comes in afterwards and lays drums to what
    I've done with a click going. Thus far, it's worked.
  24. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

    > but you could do a decent job with two mics. just make sure they are
    > two good mics! set the first mic about 6 feet over the drummers head
    > and about 8 feet in front of him. have him play loud. put the second
    > mic on the kick drum.

    Sadly, I'm always forced to tune out when people say "good mics." I
    gotta do everything with my 57s and 58s. It's kinda fun, pretty
    impossible. On many instruments and vocs I mic model, which is
    cheating and probably pretty transparent, but it makes me feel like a
    regular princess, changing from fancy mic to fancy mic at will.
  25. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

    Nat wrote:

    > Just for the record I'd like to say that recording drums on two tracks
    > is madness. Eight tracks are pretty limiting.

    Use fewer mics.


    Kind regards

    Peter Larsen




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  26. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

    In article <e6236419.0408152035.c7e9e31@posting.google.com>, Nat
    <ot7doc@yahoo.com> wrote:

    > Just for the record I'd like to say that recording drums on two tracks
    > is madness. Eight tracks are pretty limiting. Especially on the
    > machines that let you just record on two tracks. Maybe if I was good
    > at recording, good at listening to drums, I'd suffer less grief. But
    > for me, the drums mix is always a bit sour in mixdown -- too much
    > ride, too little snare, too little toms, etc. And I can't adjust
    > anything, so the only choice is bringing my drummer back in, begging
    > my roommate out of the house for a weekend, setting everything up
    > again, and then spending another weekend recording only to find that
    > the kick drum has disappeared. I'm going crazy.

    Back in the 80s and 90s there were a lot of us tracking drums with ever
    more mics. My record was 22 on a metal record; top and bottom mics on
    the toms (polarity flipped) with shell triggers keying gates etc.
    Looking back it all seems absurd. My favorite drum recordings continue
    to be a 2-3 mics in a nice room with high ceilings and of course a
    great player. I get the impression you are recording in a small room.
    Here is where close and multiple micing gets really ugly on anything
    heavier than some light brush work. My personal feeling about this kind
    of enviornment is to embrace it for what it is. A single radioshack PZM
    on the wall (any wall for that matter) will give you a fat and honest
    sound. It will sound distinct, organic and no one will confuse it with
    a machine. Try it and let your drummer hear it. He may want to adjust
    his dynamics but you may both be surprised. Then again it all depends
    on the song along with countless other variables. Just keep trying and
    dont rule anything out! There are no rules. Some of those mega-mic
    setups in the 90s actually worked on occasion;-)
  27. Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

    Sonicanuck wrote:

    > Back in the 80s and 90s there were a lot of us tracking drums with ever
    > more mics. My record was 22 on a metal record; top and bottom mics on
    > the toms (polarity flipped) with shell triggers keying gates etc.
    > Looking back it all seems absurd. My favorite drum recordings continue
    > to be a 2-3 mics in a nice room with high ceilings and of course a
    > great player. I get the impression you are recording in a small room.
    > Here is where close and multiple micing gets really ugly on anything
    > heavier than some light brush work. My personal feeling about this kind
    > of enviornment is to embrace it for what it is. A single radioshack PZM
    > on the wall (any wall for that matter) will give you a fat and honest
    > sound. It will sound distinct, organic and no one will confuse it with
    > a machine. Try it and let your drummer hear it. He may want to adjust
    > his dynamics but you may both be surprised. Then again it all depends
    > on the song along with countless other variables. Just keep trying and
    > dont rule anything out! There are no rules. Some of those mega-mic
    > setups in the 90s actually worked on occasion;-)

    I'm with you there. One of the cleanest drum recordings I've ever
    worked with was done in an 8x12 room with a 10' ceiling, assorted cheap
    sound deadening (read: cardboard egg cartons on parts of the walls),
    with a D112 on the kick, SM-58 on the snare, and a pair of RS PZMs, each
    attached to a 2x2' piece of plywood and those arranged in a V shape,
    hung about 4' above the drums, and panned hard left and right.

    The balance of the toms and overheads was near-perfect and the stereo
    image on cymbal washes and tom rolls was amazing. The 58 was blended in
    just enough to add some 'snap' and body to the snare.

    I've recently done an album with the same drummer (much newer and
    better-maintained kit, fortunately) in which we used 11 mics on the kit
    - double kicks, snare, one each for three rack toms and a floor tom, one
    each for hat and ride, and an overhead pair. I can't say that the drums
    turned out significantly better... sure there's more control, but
    sometimes the overabundance of sources just leads to cancellation and
    other problems too.


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