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All this BOSE bashing . . .let me buck the trend a bit

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Anonymous
August 26, 2004 10:18:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

While I tend to agree with most that Bose in the home is more a function
of marketing genius than good engineering, I really do like Bose car
audio. I think the 'compromise' engineering in sound bodes very well in
the compromise audio environment of the automobile. What say you all?

CD
Anonymous
August 27, 2004 3:31:32 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

Hey! you don't need to apologize for what you like.

C- [Thu, 26 Aug 2004 18:18:38 -0400]:
>of marketing genius than good engineering, I really do like Bose car
>the compromise audio environment of the automobile. What say you all?

If you seek the approval of numbskulls with a bent on
disparaging anything and everything only because another
numbskull does, you are in need of some serious get-away
time. Cut your internet connection NOW!

--
40th Floor - Software @ http://40th.com/
iPlay : the ultimate audio player for iPAQs
mp3, ogg, mp4, m4a, aac, wav, and then some
Anonymous
August 27, 2004 3:46:18 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 18:18:38 -0400, Codifus <codifus@optonline.net>
wrote:

>While I tend to agree with most that Bose in the home is more a function
>of marketing genius than good engineering, I really do like Bose car
>audio. I think the 'compromise' engineering in sound bodes very well in
>the compromise audio environment of the automobile. What say you all?

Is Bose car audio very VERY expensive?
Related resources
Anonymous
August 27, 2004 5:18:25 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

Codifus wrote:

> While I tend to agree with most that Bose in the home is more a function
> of marketing genius than good engineering, I really do like Bose car
> audio. I think the 'compromise' engineering in sound bodes very well in
> the compromise audio environment of the automobile. What say you all?

Is it Bose in a Corvette ? If so, my friend thinks it's great.


Graham
Anonymous
August 27, 2004 9:54:39 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 18:18:38 -0400, Codifus <codifus@optonline.net>
wrote:

>While I tend to agree with most that Bose in the home is more a function
>of marketing genius than good engineering, I really do like Bose car
>audio. I think the 'compromise' engineering in sound bodes very well in
>the compromise audio environment of the automobile. What say you all?

They also make very high quality noise-cancelling headphones for use
in aircraft, but these here debates tend to centre around their
domestic audio products. You might indeed argue that the proven
engineering expertise of Bose in the OEM car audio and
professional/military markets makes their domestic offerings an even
*more* cynical exercise in ripping off their main customer base.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering
Anonymous
August 27, 2004 9:59:08 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 23:46:18 +0100, Laurence Payne
<l@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

>On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 18:18:38 -0400, Codifus <codifus@optonline.net>
>wrote:
>
>>While I tend to agree with most that Bose in the home is more a function
>>of marketing genius than good engineering, I really do like Bose car
>>audio. I think the 'compromise' engineering in sound bodes very well in
>>the compromise audio environment of the automobile. What say you all?
>
>Is Bose car audio very VERY expensive?

A 450 quid option for Audis which gives you powerful amplifiers, new
drive units and dedicated equalisers on every channel, plus a volume
control linked to road speed? Perhaps not very expensive at all.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering
Anonymous
August 27, 2004 10:00:59 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 01:18:25 +0100, Pooh Bear
<rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>Codifus wrote:
>
>> While I tend to agree with most that Bose in the home is more a function
>> of marketing genius than good engineering, I really do like Bose car
>> audio. I think the 'compromise' engineering in sound bodes very well in
>> the compromise audio environment of the automobile. What say you all?
>
>Is it Bose in a Corvette ? If so, my friend thinks it's great.

Or you can have Harman-Kardon in a Jaguar XK8, Mark Levinson in a
Lexus, and Linn in an Aston Martin Vanquish................
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering
Anonymous
August 27, 2004 10:58:34 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

"Codifus" <codifus@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:cglnir$2jse$1@news.interpublic.com

> While I tend to agree with most that Bose in the home is more a
> function of marketing genius than good engineering, I really do like
> Bose car audio. I think the 'compromise' engineering in sound bodes
> very well in the compromise audio environment of the automobile. What
> say you all?

Speaking from Detroit, and with intimate knowlege of their technology and
how they sell it...

Technologically, Bose are very good. Let's say that they ply the Detroit OEM
trade with a lot of confidence. Business-wise I give them credit for
controlling the sound quality of their product right into the consumer's
hands. In general, names like Bose end up in cars without much thought by
top Detroit management, for sound quality. They think that all audio is the
same and that consumers are going to perceive the brand name more than
anything inherent in the audio product.
Anonymous
August 27, 2004 1:39:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 05:59:08 +0000 (UTC), Stewart Pinkerton
<patent3@dircon.co.uk> wrote:

>>Is Bose car audio very VERY expensive?
>
>A 450 quid option for Audis which gives you powerful amplifiers, new
>drive units and dedicated equalisers on every channel, plus a volume
>control linked to road speed? Perhaps not very expensive at all.

Not as bad as I had feared ;-)
Anonymous
August 27, 2004 5:45:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 06:00:59 +0000 (UTC), Stewart Pinkerton
<patent3@dircon.co.uk> wrote:

>Or you can have Harman-Kardon in a Jaguar XK8, Mark Levinson in a
>Lexus, and Linn in an Aston Martin Vanquish................

And McIntosh in Subaru!
Anonymous
August 28, 2004 2:39:17 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

Codifus wrote:
> While I tend to agree with most that Bose in the home is more a
> function of marketing genius than good engineering, I really do like
> Bose car audio. I think the 'compromise' engineering in sound bodes
> very well in the compromise audio environment of the automobile. What
> say you all?


I think cars are a place where audio rules no longer apply. Car music
players should have compressor controls. Bose may make a car player that
works OK, but I wouldn't encourage the sphynctoric company by donating any
of my funds.

geoff
Anonymous
August 28, 2004 2:40:42 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

Stewart Pinkerton wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 01:18:25 +0100, Pooh Bear
> <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Codifus wrote:
>>
>>> While I tend to agree with most that Bose in the home is more a
>>> function of marketing genius than good engineering, I really do
>>> like Bose car audio. I think the 'compromise' engineering in sound
>>> bodes very well in the compromise audio environment of the
>>> automobile. What say you all?
>>
>> Is it Bose in a Corvette ? If so, my friend thinks it's great.
>
> Or you can have Harman-Kardon in a Jaguar XK8, Mark Levinson in a
> Lexus, and Linn in an Aston Martin Vanquish............

I'd rather have Kumin-Hardon.

geoff.
Anonymous
August 28, 2004 2:27:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

In article <cglnir$2jse$1@news.interpublic.com>,
Codifus <codifus@optonline.net> wrote:

> While I tend to agree with most that Bose in the home is more a function
> of marketing genius than good engineering, I really do like Bose car
> audio. I think the 'compromise' engineering in sound bodes very well in
> the compromise audio environment of the automobile. What say you all?
>
> CD

Compared to the factory system, you're spending 5x on the audio system.
Bose then spends 1.5x on the hardware. Yes, it sounds much better.
Factory audio is made from the cheapest hardware that can survive for 8
years. That doesn't mean that the Bose system was a good deal. Other
aftermarket systems would be far better for less money.
Anonymous
August 28, 2004 9:38:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

Kevin McMurtrie mcmurtri@dslextreme.com wrote:



>In article <cglnir$2jse$1@news.interpublic.com>,
> Codifus <codifus@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>> While I tend to agree with most that Bose in the home is more a function
>> of marketing genius than good engineering, I really do like Bose car
>> audio. I think the 'compromise' engineering in sound bodes very well in
>> the compromise audio environment of the automobile. What say you all?
>>
>> CD
>
>Compared to the factory system, you're spending 5x on the audio system.
>Bose then spends 1.5x on the hardware. Yes, it sounds much better.
>Factory audio is made from the cheapest hardware that can survive for 8
>years. That doesn't mean that the Bose system was a good deal. Other
>aftermarket systems would be far better for less money.

This last statement is simply not true. I've tested about 500 OEM concept,
prototype and production vehicles over the past 5 years and over the past 15
years hundreds of aftermarket speaker and full autosound systems and quite
frankly only a handful of carefully assembled and installed afrermarket systems
sound as good as, let alone better, the best Bose premium systems and those
that match cost thousands more.
Anonymous
August 29, 2004 1:04:28 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

"Nousaine" <nousaine@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040828133800.16411.00002032@mb-m14.aol.com...
> Kevin McMurtrie mcmurtri@dslextreme.com wrote:
>
>
>
> >In article <cglnir$2jse$1@news.interpublic.com>,
> > Codifus <codifus@optonline.net> wrote:
> >
> >> While I tend to agree with most that Bose in the home is more a
function
> >> of marketing genius than good engineering, I really do like Bose car
> >> audio. I think the 'compromise' engineering in sound bodes very well in
> >> the compromise audio environment of the automobile. What say you all?
> >>
> >> CD
> >
> >Compared to the factory system, you're spending 5x on the audio system.
> >Bose then spends 1.5x on the hardware. Yes, it sounds much better.
> >Factory audio is made from the cheapest hardware that can survive for 8
> >years. That doesn't mean that the Bose system was a good deal. Other
> >aftermarket systems would be far better for less money.
>
> This last statement is simply not true. I've tested about 500 OEM concept,
> prototype and production vehicles over the past 5 years and over the past
15
> years hundreds of aftermarket speaker and full autosound systems and quite
> frankly only a handful of carefully assembled and installed afrermarket
systems
> sound as good as, let alone better, the best Bose premium systems and
those
> that match cost thousands more.

You did what?
Who are you and where can these reviews be found?
Carl
Anonymous
August 29, 2004 9:30:01 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

"Carl Valle" cwvalle@swbell.net wrote:

>"Nousaine" <nousaine@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:20040828133800.16411.00002032@mb-m14.aol.com...
>> Kevin McMurtrie mcmurtri@dslextreme.com wrote:

>> >In article <cglnir$2jse$1@news.interpublic.com>,
>> > Codifus <codifus@optonline.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >> While I tend to agree with most that Bose in the home is more a
>function
>> >> of marketing genius than good engineering, I really do like Bose car
>> >> audio. I think the 'compromise' engineering in sound bodes very well in
>> >> the compromise audio environment of the automobile. What say you all?
>> >>
>> >> CD
>> >
>> >Compared to the factory system, you're spending 5x on the audio system.
>> >Bose then spends 1.5x on the hardware. Yes, it sounds much better.
>> >Factory audio is made from the cheapest hardware that can survive for 8
>> >years. That doesn't mean that the Bose system was a good deal. Other
>> >aftermarket systems would be far better for less money.

nousaine said;

>> This last statement is simply not true. I've tested about 500 OEM concept,
>> prototype and production vehicles over the past 5 years and over the past
>15
>> years hundreds of aftermarket speaker and full autosound systems and quite
>> frankly only a handful of carefully assembled and installed afrermarket
>systems
>> sound as good as, let alone better, the best Bose premium systems and
>those
>> that match cost thousands more.
>
>You did what?
>Who are you and where can these reviews be found?
>Carl

None of these were "reviews"like you'd find on-line. The aftermarket full
systems were results of my judging at IASCA events and my personal coverage of
aftermarket systems evaluated at SMWTMS and PSACS events. The aftermarket
speaker reviews can found by searching Mobile Entertainment (Car Stereo Review;
prior to that starting in 1988 and continuing to this day.) As for home audio
products and systems I've been covering those in magazines such as The $ensible
Sound, Audio, Stereo Review, Video, Sound & Image, The Audio Critic and most
lately Sound & Vision.

Then to move to OEM autosound systems I've tested about 500 of them as a
trained listener for DLC Design, a 3rd party evaluative service that specalizes
in testing OEM autosound systems beginning in 1999. Prior to that I had a
column in Car Stereo Review "Taking Stock" that covered OEM autosound systems.
Anonymous
August 29, 2004 10:54:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

"Carl Valle" <cwvalle@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:wr6Yc.14563$Zj4.11084@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com

> You did what?

What he said.

> Who are you

Figuratively Carl, Tom's your daddy.

>and where can these reviews be found?

Ever hear of google, Carl?

No, I didn't think so. Go back to RAO where you belong with the rest of
Gindi's sockpuppets. ;-(
Anonymous
August 30, 2004 11:38:03 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

"Nousaine" <nousaine@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040829013001.18203.00002361@mb-m03.aol.com...
> None of these were "reviews"like you'd find on-line. The aftermarket full
> systems were results of my judging at IASCA events and my personal
> coverage of
> aftermarket systems evaluated at SMWTMS and PSACS events.


Tom, Is PSACS still alive? I'm off the road and getting back into
construction again, may wander over some time for a meeting and join up!

Chad Wahls
Anonymous
August 30, 2004 9:38:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

"Chad Wahls" cwahls@uiuc.edu wrote:



>
>"Nousaine" <nousaine@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:20040829013001.18203.00002361@mb-m03.aol.com...
>> None of these were "reviews"like you'd find on-line. The aftermarket full
>> systems were results of my judging at IASCA events and my personal
>> coverage of
>> aftermarket systems evaluated at SMWTMS and PSACS events.
>
>
>Tom, Is PSACS still alive? I'm off the road and getting back into
>construction again, may wander over some time for a meeting and join up!
>
>Chad Wahls

Next Meeting will be October 16 featuring Dave Clark's Perceptual Transfer
Function system.
Anonymous
August 31, 2004 7:36:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

Nousaine wrote:
> Kevin McMurtrie mcmurtri@dslextreme.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>>In article <cglnir$2jse$1@news.interpublic.com>,
>>Codifus <codifus@optonline.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>While I tend to agree with most that Bose in the home is more a function
>>>of marketing genius than good engineering, I really do like Bose car
>>>audio. I think the 'compromise' engineering in sound bodes very well in
>>>the compromise audio environment of the automobile. What say you all?
>>>
>>>CD
>>
>>Compared to the factory system, you're spending 5x on the audio system.
>>Bose then spends 1.5x on the hardware. Yes, it sounds much better.
>>Factory audio is made from the cheapest hardware that can survive for 8
>>years. That doesn't mean that the Bose system was a good deal. Other
>>aftermarket systems would be far better for less money.
>
>
> This last statement is simply not true. I've tested about 500 OEM concept,
> prototype and production vehicles over the past 5 years and over the past 15
> years hundreds of aftermarket speaker and full autosound systems and quite
> frankly only a handful of carefully assembled and installed afrermarket systems
> sound as good as, let alone better, the best Bose premium systems and those
> that match cost thousands more.
This has been my observation, although it's a whole lot less experienced
one. In order to put in a better aftermarket system than Bose, you
really have to spend the big bucks, and, more importantly, do the
homework to fine tune all those aftermarket components to your car.
There's nothing off the shelf that will work optimally in your Cadillac,
Mercedez Benz, Acura etc.
The biggest advantage to Bose in the car is the fact they get to tune
the system to the acoustical properties of that particualr vehicle. I
really wish I could buy a whole system from Clarion, JVC, or whomever
that was built for my car, but that ain't gonna happen. And so what if
the Bose system only last 8 years and they use paper. Yes, there are
more modern materials out there but paper sounds good, it's even been
said that paper has a more neutral tone than the likes of polypropelyne
etc. I haven't seen car speakers made of Kevlar yet, but if they do
make 'em, you can bet they'll be pricey, pricier than even a Bose
system. Also, since when do people keep their cars for 8 years now? I'm
not knocking people who own cars for the long run, after all I'm one of
them. But given that most cars are leased for 3 years at most, the Bose
system will outlast most owners.
Having said all that I will admitt that the Bose systems, when compared
to aftermarket, does tend to that middle ground, or as that
popular phrase goes, no highs, no lows, must be Bose. To clarify what
I've heard is that the Bose car systems maybe needed a slightly better
tweeter up top. They've had plenty of bass, but the the speakers driving
the bass tend to be too small for the job and over-load quickly. Overall
though, the balance of the sound coming from the entire system makes it
very hard to beat, and the balance is key. Other systems which have
better highs and lowere lows usually don't have the balance unless you
spends thousands. I've heard Bose in the Mercedes E class, Nissan
Maximas, the C4 Corvette, and found them very enjoyable.

CD
Anonymous
September 1, 2004 6:17:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

In article <cglnir$2jse$1@news.interpublic.com>, codifus@optonline.net says...
>While I tend to agree with most that Bose in the home is more a function
>of marketing genius than good engineering, I really do like Bose car
>audio. I think the 'compromise' engineering in sound bodes very well in
>the compromise audio environment of the automobile. What say you all?

They still use cheap parts that break down much sooner than an after market
component would.
------------
Alex
Anonymous
September 1, 2004 6:21:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

In article <20040828133800.16411.00002032@mb-m14.aol.com>, nousaine@aol.com
says...
>This last statement is simply not true. I've tested about 500 OEM concept,
>prototype and production vehicles over the past 5 years and over the past 15
>years hundreds of aftermarket speaker and full autosound systems and quite
>frankly only a handful of carefully assembled and installed afrermarket
systems
>sound as good as, let alone better, the best Bose premium systems and those
>that match cost thousands more.

Bose has the advantage in that the work they do with one car will apply
to thousands of systems they sell for that same model. So they can get
the best sound out of the cheap components they use. You could assemble
a really good system that will sound as good, or better, than the Bose, but
you have to spend a lot of time and money tuning the components to get the best
sound out of the system.
----------------
Alex
Anonymous
September 1, 2004 10:48:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

"Codifus" <codifus@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:ch2ju1$fa6$1@news.interpublic.com...
> Also, since when do people keep their cars for 8 years now? I'm
> not knocking people who own cars for the long run, after all I'm one of
> them. But given that most cars are leased for 3 years at most, the Bose
> system will outlast most owners.

I don't think many owners actually scrap their cars after 3 years. They
expect things to work so they can sell it, and the new owner expects things
to work for a while longer.

How about comparing Bose inbuilt car sound to the in built car sound of
other manufacturers like Mark Levison, JBL etc.
The problem for most people though is that they buy the car they want and
option whatever sound the car manufacturer chose, not the other way around.

TonyP.
Anonymous
September 1, 2004 11:19:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

Alex Rodriguez wrote:
> In article <cglnir$2jse$1@news.interpublic.com>, codifus@optonline.net says...
>
>>While I tend to agree with most that Bose in the home is more a function
>>of marketing genius than good engineering, I really do like Bose car
>>audio. I think the 'compromise' engineering in sound bodes very well in
>>the compromise audio environment of the automobile. What say you all?
>
>
> They still use cheap parts that break down much sooner than an after market
> component would.
> ------------
> Alex
>
That may be true, but wouldn't you rather have a system that sounds good
but doesn't last rather than one which sounds OK but lasts forever?
Sounding good is my 1st priority in a sound system. You can put in a
higher quality system, but it will cost at least twice as much as the
Bose, and you will have to do all the homework of balancing the
acoustics of the system to the car.

In perfect world, Bose would use better grade components, and bigger
speakers. But at least they got the primary goal of a car's sound system
right: sounding good.

Also, weren't Bose the pioneers in customizing stereos to cars? Then
Mark Levinson, JBL, Nakamichi et al followed suit?

CD
Anonymous
September 1, 2004 11:55:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

"Alex Rodriguez" <adr5@columbia.edu> wrote in message
news:ch53ni$9b2$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu
> In article <cglnir$2jse$1@news.interpublic.com>,
> codifus@optonline.net says...
>> While I tend to agree with most that Bose in the home is more a
>> function of marketing genius than good engineering, I really do like
>> Bose car audio. I think the 'compromise' engineering in sound bodes
>> very well in the compromise audio environment of the automobile.
>> What say you all?
>
> They still use cheap parts that break down much sooner than an after
> market component would.

Obviously, somone thinks that all aftermarket components have identically
the same reliability.
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 1:14:23 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

Alex Rodriguez adr5@columbia.edu wrote:

>In article <cglnir$2jse$1@news.interpublic.com>, codifus@optonline.net
>says...
>>While I tend to agree with most that Bose in the home is more a function
>>of marketing genius than good engineering, I really do like Bose car
>>audio. I think the 'compromise' engineering in sound bodes very well in
>>the compromise audio environment of the automobile. What say you all?
>
>They still use cheap parts that break down much sooner than an after market
>component would.
>------------
>Alex

This is a common misconception. Bose does not make any head-units and the
Delphi (GM) heads are among the longest lived and most reliable you can buy.
Also have the best radios.

The Bose amplifiers/EQ/speakers are subject to the same reliability constraints
as all OEM parts which in turn are far more stringent than aftermarket
products.

I've put 250k miles on 4 GM/Bose systems over the past decade with not a single
failure. '93 Camaro Z28 (car is still being used by new owner and with 160k on
it the Bose system is still functional; '94 Corvette Coupe (didn't have Bose
system but I acquired a Bose head from Delco and installed that)' ''95 Coupe
which had 120k on the odometer and had been driven year-round in rust belt
winters for 6 seasons was swapped in '01 for a 2001 Coupe which now has 60k.
I've had no Bose or other audio failures associated with the factory premium
system.

Just for added detail these cars were all used as the test-mule for my speaker
testing of aftermarket speaker systems for Car Stereo Review and Mobile
Entertainment. Most of the aftermarket testing was done with the vehicle
sitting in one of my garage bays. The Bose systems were removed for every test
and reinstalled after each test; so not only have the Delphi/Bose systems had
no problems with surviving rust belt winters they have also been able to
withstand significant handling and dozens of installations. All with no
failures. All with better fm reception than any aftermarket radio (except
perhaps for one Blaupunk head which was on a par.)
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 1:19:30 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

Alex Rodriguez adr5@columbia.edu wrote:

>In article <20040828133800.16411.00002032@mb-m14.aol.com>, nousaine@aol.com
>says...
>>This last statement is simply not true. I've tested about 500 OEM concept,
>>prototype and production vehicles over the past 5 years and over the past 15
>>years hundreds of aftermarket speaker and full autosound systems and quite
>>frankly only a handful of carefully assembled and installed afrermarket
>systems
>>sound as good as, let alone better, the best Bose premium systems and those
>>that match cost thousands more.
>
>Bose has the advantage in that the work they do with one car will apply
>to thousands of systems they sell for that same model. So they can get
>the best sound out of the cheap components they use.

You seem to be confusing economical with 'cheap.' The components used in Bose
systems (speakers/EQ/amplification) are at least equivalent to aftermarket
systems and often far more advanced in an engineering sense.

You could assemble
>a really good system that will sound as good, or better, than the Bose, but
>you have to spend a lot of time and money tuning the components to get the
>best
>sound out of the system.
>----------------
>Alex

That's true and is my main point. It is possible to design, install and tune an
autosound system that is as good as the better Bose systems but it takes so
much more effort and money that only a handful of people have ever done so.
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 4:25:24 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

Codifus codifus@optonline.net wrote:

....snips....

>Also, weren't Bose the pioneers in customizing stereos to cars? Then
>Mark Levinson, JBL, Nakamichi et al followed suit?
>
>CD

Bose 'invented' the branded premium OEM autosound system with the '83 cadillac
as I recall. Soon after Lincoln turned up with JBL branded product. Lexus
followed with a Nachamichi system. The brand Mark Levinson, now owned by Harman
as is JBL and Infinity, didn't arrive until this century. Except for an
occasional system the JBL brand is seldom seen anymore but the Infinity brand
is featured on many DCX products.

JBL, Infinity and Lexicon Logic 7 premium brands are all Harman brands. Monsoon
is a Delphi product. Alpine, F-10 and Pioneer have been gaining in-roads with
OEM companies although not always with branded products. MacIntosh keeps trying
as well.
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 9:29:05 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 14:17:21 -0400, Alex Rodriguez <adr5@columbia.edu>
wrote:

>In article <cglnir$2jse$1@news.interpublic.com>, codifus@optonline.net says...
>>While I tend to agree with most that Bose in the home is more a function
>>of marketing genius than good engineering, I really do like Bose car
>>audio. I think the 'compromise' engineering in sound bodes very well in
>>the compromise audio environment of the automobile. What say you all?
>
>They still use cheap parts that break down much sooner than an after market
>component would.

Hmmmm. Are you aware of *any* such failure of a factory Bose install?
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 8:34:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

Nousaine wrote:
can
>> get the best sound out of the cheap components they use.
>
> You seem to be confusing economical with 'cheap.' The components used
> in Bose systems (speakers/EQ/amplification) are at least equivalent
> to aftermarket systems and often far more advanced in an engineering
> sense.
>

The front grille assembly on a 902 (?) is the flimsy piece of lightweight
plastic junk I've touched in years.

geoff
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 8:58:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

"Nousaine" <nousaine@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040901171423.08579.00000029@mb-m12.aol.com...
> Just for added detail these cars were all used as the test-mule for my
speaker
> testing of aftermarket speaker systems for Car Stereo Review and Mobile
> Entertainment. Most of the aftermarket testing was done with the vehicle
> sitting in one of my garage bays. The Bose systems were removed for every
test
> and reinstalled after each test; so not only have the Delphi/Bose systems
had
> no problems with surviving rust belt winters they have also been able to
> withstand significant handling and dozens of installations. All with no
> failures. All with better fm reception than any aftermarket radio (except
> perhaps for one Blaupunk head which was on a par.)

So what you're saying is that GM/Delphi make a good component rather than
Bose. Do they use the same head unit for the non-Bose audio system?

TonyP.
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 8:58:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

"TonyP" <TonyP@optus.net.com.au> wrote in message
news:4136c4b2$0$17675$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au
> "Nousaine" <nousaine@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040901171423.08579.00000029@mb-m12.aol.com...
>> Just for added detail these cars were all used as the test-mule for
>> my speaker testing of aftermarket speaker systems for Car Stereo
>> Review and Mobile Entertainment. Most of the aftermarket testing was
>> done with the vehicle sitting in one of my garage bays. The Bose
>> systems were removed for every test and reinstalled after each test;
>> so not only have the Delphi/Bose systems had no problems with
>> surviving rust belt winters they have also been able to withstand
>> significant handling and dozens of installations. All with no
>> failures. All with better fm reception than any aftermarket radio
>> (except perhaps for one Blaupunk head which was on a par.)
>
> So what you're saying is that GM/Delphi make a good component rather
> than Bose.

No, its a combination of ingredients. The fact that Bose car audio is really
pretty good may be a big hard rock to swallow, but its generally accepted
among people who are properly informed and relatively unbiased experts about
car audio. Bose's contribution can't be discounted.

> Do they use the same head unit for the non-Bose audio system?

AFAIK, yes. These days head units are told by the chassis of the car what
the rest of the car audio system is composed of, and they adjust themselves
(built-in parametric eq and the like) accordingly, every time they are
powered up.
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 8:58:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

On Thu, 2 Sep 2004 08:11:40 -0400, "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com>
wrote:

>"TonyP" <TonyP@optus.net.com.au> wrote in message
>news:4136c4b2$0$17675$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au
>> "Nousaine" <nousaine@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:20040901171423.08579.00000029@mb-m12.aol.com...
>>> Just for added detail these cars were all used as the test-mule for
>>> my speaker testing of aftermarket speaker systems for Car Stereo
>>> Review and Mobile Entertainment. Most of the aftermarket testing was
>>> done with the vehicle sitting in one of my garage bays. The Bose
>>> systems were removed for every test and reinstalled after each test;
>>> so not only have the Delphi/Bose systems had no problems with
>>> surviving rust belt winters they have also been able to withstand
>>> significant handling and dozens of installations. All with no
>>> failures. All with better fm reception than any aftermarket radio
>>> (except perhaps for one Blaupunk head which was on a par.)
>>
>> So what you're saying is that GM/Delphi make a good component rather
>> than Bose.
>
>No, its a combination of ingredients. The fact that Bose car audio is really
>pretty good may be a big hard rock to swallow, but its generally accepted
>among people who are properly informed and relatively unbiased experts about
>car audio. Bose's contribution can't be discounted.

Yup, I used to have great fun telling 'high end' people that I had a
$40,000 Bose audio system............. :-)

Didn't get the Bose upgrade in my current Audi A6, and while the stock
system is pretty good, the Bose in the old car was definitely better!
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering
Anonymous
September 2, 2004 9:54:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

In article <dviti0tm8qs7iilhnq47vn5khsa4l4t0ij@4ax.com>,
patent3@dircon.co.uk says...
>
>
>On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 18:18:38 -0400, Codifus <codifus@optonline.net>
>wrote:
>
>>While I tend to agree with most that Bose in the home is more a function
>>of marketing genius than good engineering, I really do like Bose car
>>audio. I think the 'compromise' engineering in sound bodes very well in
>>the compromise audio environment of the automobile. What say you all?
>
>They also make very high quality noise-cancelling headphones for use
>in aircraft, but these here debates tend to centre around their
>domestic audio products. You might indeed argue that the proven
>engineering expertise of Bose in the OEM car audio and
>professional/military markets makes their domestic offerings an even
>*more* cynical exercise in ripping off their main customer base.

I never travel on airplanes without Bose noise-cancelling headphones. I
often wear them just to suppress the cabin noise, but they can be very
helpful in improving the intelligibility of the in-air entertainment. They
are also excellent for plugging into one's laptop in a hotel room to watch
a DVD.

I also have a Wave radio on my nightstand, and I find it a perfectly
pleasant way of waking me up in the morning to the strains of the local
classical musical station.

But this is where my interest in Bose products ends.
Anonymous
September 3, 2004 12:20:06 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

"Geoff Wood" geoff@paf.co.nz-nospam wrote:



>
>Nousaine wrote:
>can
>>> get the best sound out of the cheap components they use.
>>
>> You seem to be confusing economical with 'cheap.' The components used
>> in Bose systems (speakers/EQ/amplification) are at least equivalent
>> to aftermarket systems and often far more advanced in an engineering
>> sense.
>>
>
>The front grille assembly on a 902 (?) is the flimsy piece of lightweight
>plastic junk I've touched in years.
>
>geoff

When was the last time you saw one of those in a car?-)
Anonymous
September 3, 2004 12:32:38 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

TonyP@optus.net.com.au wrote:



>
>"Nousaine" <nousaine@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:20040901171423.08579.00000029@mb-m12.aol.com...
>> Just for added detail these cars were all used as the test-mule for my
>speaker
>> testing of aftermarket speaker systems for Car Stereo Review and Mobile
>> Entertainment. Most of the aftermarket testing was done with the vehicle
>> sitting in one of my garage bays. The Bose systems were removed for every
>test
>> and reinstalled after each test; so not only have the Delphi/Bose systems
>had
>> no problems with surviving rust belt winters they have also been able to
>> withstand significant handling and dozens of installations. All with no
>> failures. All with better fm reception than any aftermarket radio (except
>> perhaps for one Blaupunk head which was on a par.)
>
>So what you're saying is that GM/Delphi make a good component rather than
>Bose. Do they use the same head unit for the non-Bose audio system?
>
>TonyP.

Bose does not make head-units. But because their speakers are all powered with
thier own EQ every speaker evaluation required removing all the Bose
compoenents in the system each time. It is true that the am/fm performance has
nothing to do with the Bose parts of the system.

The specific parts that get removed and reinstalled are the speaker/amp units,
grilles and associated wiring harness. But again I've removed/reinstalled the
bose speaker modules in 4 Bose equipped GM cars literallt dozens of times and
driven these vehicles over 300,000 miles in rust-belt weather without a single
component failure. The parts of these systems that has been subject to the
most wear/tear are the body/trim fasteners.
Anonymous
September 3, 2004 12:36:22 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

"Arny Krueger" arnyk@hotpop.com wrote:



>
>> Do they use the same head unit for the non-Bose audio system?
>
>AFAIK, yes. These days head units are told by the chassis of the car what
>the rest of the car audio system is composed of, and they adjust themselves
>(built-in parametric eq and the like) accordingly, every time they are
>powered up.

One of the reasons that Bose systems have always been Active (come with their
own power and EQ) is that Bose can then retain control over the electronic
parts of their speaker systems.
!