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Create surround on red book CD?

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Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

Cheers!

Can I put four channels on a red book CD by using some surround
encoder? I would like to take some CD:s, extract the stereo channels
on to my PC, subtract the two and put the resulting signal in the
surround channels a la Hafler to be decoded by the HT receiver. Can
this be done?

I have a new Yamaha HT receiver (RX-V450), which has most decoders, at
least what I can understand. It has a lot of "effects", but for some
reason it does not have the obvious one: put a delayed L-R in the rear
channels. So I thought I could fix this myself.

Per

PS. I'm impressed by the Yamaha, by the way! You get a lot of usable
electronics for a rather modest amount of money these days! It doesn't
sound so shabby, either.

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Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

Per Stromgren <per.stromgren@telia.com> wrote in
news:5fkfo09m67afbhh5lq5895mc46airr9o7p@4ax.com:

> Cheers!
>
> Can I put four channels on a red book CD by using some surround
> encoder? I would like to take some CD:s, extract the stereo channels
> on to my PC, subtract the two and put the resulting signal in the
> surround channels a la Hafler to be decoded by the HT receiver. Can
> this be done?
>
> I have a new Yamaha HT receiver (RX-V450), which has most decoders, at
> least what I can understand. It has a lot of "effects", but for some
> reason it does not have the obvious one: put a delayed L-R in the rear
> channels. So I thought I could fix this myself.

Does your receiver have Dolby Pro Logic II or Pro Logic IIx? Or DTS Neo 6?
Any of these formats will "create" 5.1/6.1/7.1 output from a 2 channel
input.

--
Lucas Tam (REMOVEnntp@rogers.com)
Please delete "REMOVE" from the e-mail address when replying.
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/coolspot18/

Reply to Anonymous

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

"Per Stromgren" <per.stromgren@telia.com> wrote in message
news:5fkfo09m67afbhh5lq5895mc46airr9o7p@4ax.com...
> Cheers!
>
> Can I put four channels on a red book CD by using some surround
> encoder?

No, red book is 2 channels of 44k1/16 .

Unless encode those two channels, like SQ .

geoff

Reply to Anonymous

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

On Wed, 3 Nov 2004 08:08:18 +1300, "Geoff Wood"
<geoff@paf.co.nz-nospam> wrote:

>
>"Per Stromgren" <per.stromgren@telia.com> wrote in message
>news:5fkfo09m67afbhh5lq5895mc46airr9o7p@4ax.com...
>> Cheers!
>>
>> Can I put four channels on a red book CD by using some surround
>> encoder?
>
>No, red book is 2 channels of 44k1/16 .

But so is VHS audio track in a way, isn't it? And VHS can carry
surround sound.
>
>
>Unless encode those two channels, like SQ .

Yes, that was I had in mind.

Per.

Reply to Anonymous

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 19:06:54 GMT, Lucas Tam <REMOVEnntp@rogers.com>
wrote:

>Per Stromgren <per.stromgren@telia.com> wrote in
>news:5fkfo09m67afbhh5lq5895mc46airr9o7p@4ax.com:
>
>> Cheers!
>>
>> Can I put four channels on a red book CD by using some surround
>> encoder? I would like to take some CD:s, extract the stereo channels
>> on to my PC, subtract the two and put the resulting signal in the
>> surround channels a la Hafler to be decoded by the HT receiver. Can
>> this be done?
>>
>> I have a new Yamaha HT receiver (RX-V450), which has most decoders, at
>> least what I can understand. It has a lot of "effects", but for some
>> reason it does not have the obvious one: put a delayed L-R in the rear
>> channels. So I thought I could fix this myself.
>
>
>Does your receiver have Dolby Pro Logic II or Pro Logic IIx? Or DTS Neo 6?

Yes, all three.

>Any of these formats will "create" 5.1/6.1/7.1 output from a 2 channel
>input.

But the input signal is supposed to be encoded with this in mind, no?

Per.

Reply to Anonymous

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

In article <u6ofo053nin40lc49qhspj7h11uq7rjrhh@4ax.com>,
Per Stromgren <per.stromgren@telia.com> wrote:

>>
>>
>>Unless encode those two channels, like SQ .
>
>Yes, that was I had in mind.

Check around for surround-sound-encoding plugins for various PC-based
audio processing / digital-audio-workstation packages. You'll find
one at http://plugin.org.uk/ladspa-swh/do [...] tml#id1401 (a
plugin for the Linux Audio Developer's Simple Plugin API, which is
supported by quite a few packages). I imagine that there are others
available, both commercially and perhaps for free, for Windows
applications.

--
Dave Platt <dplatt@radagast.org> AE6EO
Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

Reply to Anonymous

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

Per Stromgren <per.stromgren@telia.com> wrote in
news:2aofo05kprem15ct0mdsjdq6bn0279sj31@4ax.com:

>>Does your receiver have Dolby Pro Logic II or Pro Logic IIx? Or DTS
>>Neo 6?
>
> Yes, all three.
>
>>Any of these formats will "create" 5.1/6.1/7.1 output from a 2 channel
>>input.
>
> But the input signal is supposed to be encoded with this in mind, no?

Nope, Dolby Pro Logic II and Pro Logic IIx can extract a 5.1/6.1/7.1 track
from a 2 channel source:

http://www.dolby.com/consumer/tech [...] ic_II.html
http://www.dolby.com/consumer/tech [...] c_IIx.html
http://www.dtsonline.com/consumer/ [...] =383892649

Of course it's not as good as a true multi-channel source... but it's
better than nothing. Depending on the material, it can sound pretty good.
--
Lucas Tam (REMOVEnntp@rogers.com)
Please delete "REMOVE" from the e-mail address when replying.
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/coolspot18/

Reply to Anonymous

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

Per Stromgren <per.stromgren@telia.com> wrote in
news:u6ofo053nin40lc49qhspj7h11uq7rjrhh@4ax.com:

> But so is VHS audio track in a way, isn't it? And VHS can carry
> surround sound.

If you can find a Dolby Pro Logic encoder... you can create your own multi-
channel tracks.

http://www.dolby.com/consumer/technology/surround.html

But your receiver can do something very similar with Dolby Pro Logic II/IIx
or DTS Neo 6 or one of the DSP programs.

--
Lucas Tam (REMOVEnntp@rogers.com)
Please delete "REMOVE" from the e-mail address when replying.
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/coolspot18/

Reply to Anonymous

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 20:15:21 GMT, Lucas Tam <REMOVEnntp@rogers.com>
wrote:

>Per Stromgren <per.stromgren@telia.com> wrote in
>news:2aofo05kprem15ct0mdsjdq6bn0279sj31@4ax.com:
>
>>>Does your receiver have Dolby Pro Logic II or Pro Logic IIx? Or DTS
>>>Neo 6?
>>
>> Yes, all three.
>>
>>>Any of these formats will "create" 5.1/6.1/7.1 output from a 2 channel
>>>input.
>>
>> But the input signal is supposed to be encoded with this in mind, no?
>
>Nope, Dolby Pro Logic II and Pro Logic IIx can extract a 5.1/6.1/7.1 track
>from a 2 channel source:
>
>http://www.dolby.com/consumer/technology/prologic_II.html
>http://www.dolby.com/consumer/technology/prologic_IIx.html
>http://www.dtsonline.com/consumer/overview.php?ID=383892649

Hm... I seems that this is I want, I better try it before I do
anything else. Thanks!
>
>Of course it's not as good as a true multi-channel source... but it's
>better than nothing. Depending on the material, it can sound pretty good.

My idea wasn't multi channel either, it was the very basic Hafler
system.

I'll be back reporting what I hear!

Thanks again.

Per.

Reply to Anonymous

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 19:40:23 +0100, Per Stromgren
<per.stromgren@telia.com> wrote:

>
>Can I put four channels on a red book CD by using some surround
>encoder? I would like to take some CD:s, extract the stereo channels
>on to my PC, subtract the two and put the resulting signal in the
>surround channels a la Hafler to be decoded by the HT receiver. Can
>this be done?

No. Red book is two-channel stereo.
If you wish to encode that stereo in some way and decode it after
playback, that's another matter. But you can't directly record and
play more than two channels.

Reply to Anonymous

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 20:36:05 +0100, Per Stromgren
<per.stromgren@telia.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 19:06:54 GMT, Lucas Tam <REMOVEnntp@rogers.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Per Stromgren <per.stromgren@telia.com> wrote in
>>news:5fkfo09m67afbhh5lq5895mc46airr9o7p@4ax.com:
>>
>>> Cheers!
>>>
>>> Can I put four channels on a red book CD by using some surround
>>> encoder? I would like to take some CD:s, extract the stereo channels
>>> on to my PC, subtract the two and put the resulting signal in the
>>> surround channels a la Hafler to be decoded by the HT receiver. Can
>>> this be done?
>>>
>>> I have a new Yamaha HT receiver (RX-V450), which has most decoders, at
>>> least what I can understand. It has a lot of "effects", but for some
>>> reason it does not have the obvious one: put a delayed L-R in the rear
>>> channels. So I thought I could fix this myself.

The reason is, that it has DPL II!

>>Does your receiver have Dolby Pro Logic II or Pro Logic IIx? Or DTS Neo 6?
>
>Yes, all three.
>
>>Any of these formats will "create" 5.1/6.1/7.1 output from a 2 channel
>>input.
>
>But the input signal is supposed to be encoded with this in mind, no?

Not necessarily. DPL II takes a standard stero signal and creates the
surround channels, using a modern DSP advance on the simplistic Hafler
approach. While clearly at its most effective with a surround-encoded
soundtrack, it was *specifically* designed by the legendary Jim
Fosgate to provide the best possible result with normal two-track
stereo. Try it, and you'll hear how effective it is.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Reply to Anonymous

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

For what it's worth, using the 7-channel Stereo setting or the Neo:6
Music setting should give you the best results.

I've got the big brother of that amp, and for critical listening use
the Direct Stereo mode, but for the majority of listening (like right
now) I have a stereo source (CD, MP3 or Streaming Radio) playing back
through the Neo:6 Music decoder and it's a good, full sound. You don't
get the funky effects that are possible with specially encoded source
materials, but it's pretty damn good none the less...

Kai

On 2004-11-03 05:40:23 +1100, Per Stromgren <per.stromgren@telia.com> said:

> Cheers!
>
> Can I put four channels on a red book CD by using some surround
> encoder? I would like to take some CD:s, extract the stereo channels
> on to my PC, subtract the two and put the resulting signal in the
> surround channels a la Hafler to be decoded by the HT receiver. Can
> this be done?
>
> I have a new Yamaha HT receiver (RX-V450), which has most decoders, at
> least what I can understand. It has a lot of "effects", but for some
> reason it does not have the obvious one: put a delayed L-R in the rear
> channels. So I thought I could fix this myself.
> Per
>
> PS. I'm impressed by the Yamaha, by the way! You get a lot of usable
> electronics for a rather modest amount of money these days! It doesn't
> sound so shabby, either.

Reply to Anonymous

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

Geoff Wood wrote:

> "Per Stromgren" <per.stromgren@telia.com> wrote in message
> news:5fkfo09m67afbhh5lq5895mc46airr9o7p@4ax.com...

>> Can I put four channels on a red book CD by using some surround
>> encoder?

> No, red book is 2 channels of 44k1/16 .

That may not be entirely correct, the CD format is spec'ed also for
discrete quadrophony. No players able to play that back is known to me.
The general reply is of course to suggest DVD audio instead.

> geoff

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

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