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tracks missing on CD - help

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November 9, 2004 9:36:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

I bought a new CD, played all the way through once, but now, every
time I play it, on any CD player, 4 tracks are missing. It has 18
tracks, but now only the first 14 show up. The CD looks fine, I don't
know if I should try the liquid scratch remover stuff, or what to do
to recover the missing tracks.
Anyone.....??

More about : tracks missing

Anonymous
November 14, 2004 1:05:59 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

In <ceb367c.0411091836.ced8617@posting.google.com>, on 11/09/04
at 06:36 PM, gregf@kcls.org (fear) said:

>I bought a new CD, played all the way through once, but now, every
>time I play it, on any CD player, 4 tracks are missing. It has 18
>tracks, but now only the first 14 show up. The CD looks fine, I don't
>know if I should try the liquid scratch remover stuff, or what to do
>to recover the missing tracks.
>Anyone.....??

How do you know that the disk should have 18 tracks? Most players
report the number of tracks before they start to play. Is this where
you saw "18" or does the CD jacket indicate "18"?

It is possible for physical damage on the CD or the player to prevent a
group of tracks from playing, but it is unlikely that these problems
would start or stop neatly at a track boundary. If the CD or player has
a problem, there could be good and bad days. On a good day you can play
the CD.

In most cases it is possible to see the physical damage on a problem
CD, but I have encountered a couple discs that players didn't like, but
looked OK to me.

---

Not to be a pain, but when glancing at a 7-segment diasplay, it is not
to hard to imagine how one might mistake a "4" for an "8".

-----------------------------------------------------------
spam: uce@ftc.gov
wordgame:123(abc):<14 9 20 5 2 9 18 4 at 22 15 9 3 5 14 5 20 dot 3 15
13> (Barry Mann)
[sorry about the puzzle, spammers are ruining my mailbox]
-----------------------------------------------------------
Anonymous
November 14, 2004 1:07:35 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

On 9 Nov 2004 18:36:20 -0800, gregf@kcls.org (fear) wrote:

>I bought a new CD, played all the way through once, but now, every
>time I play it, on any CD player, 4 tracks are missing. It has 18
>tracks, but now only the first 14 show up. The CD looks fine, I don't
>know if I should try the liquid scratch remover stuff, or what to do
>to recover the missing tracks.
>Anyone.....??

Try it in a different player - maybe in your computer?

IS there physical damage? If not, try for a free replacement.
faulty CDs do get sold.
Related resources
November 14, 2004 6:43:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

Laurence Payne <l@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
news:ab1dp0t672cc0mtlagoq586ehiu4b02fpg@4ax.com:

> On 9 Nov 2004 18:36:20 -0800, gregf@kcls.org (fear) wrote:
>
>>I bought a new CD, played all the way through once, but now, every
>>time I play it, on any CD player, 4 tracks are missing. It has 18
>>tracks, but now only the first 14 show up. The CD looks fine, I don't
>>know if I should try the liquid scratch remover stuff, or what to do
>>to recover the missing tracks.
>>Anyone.....??
>
> Try it in a different player - maybe in your computer?
>
> IS there physical damage? If not, try for a free replacement.
> faulty CDs do get sold.

For what it's worth, I've had good luck recovering defective and scratched
CDs by reading them with a DVD-ROM drive and then burning them onto a CD-R.
I don't know if this works because because of the smaller laser wavelength
used for DVDs or because the drive (a COMPAQ model DS-612B, circa 2000) has
better error correction. The disks I recovered caused CD players and
regular CD drives to skip or get stuck in one spot, but the copies don't
seem to have any problems.

-- JS
Anonymous
November 14, 2004 11:50:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

"Laurence Payne" <l@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ab1dp0t672cc0mtlagoq586ehiu4b02fpg@4ax.com...
> On 9 Nov 2004 18:36:20 -0800, gregf@kcls.org (fear) wrote:
>
>>I bought a new CD, played all the way through once, but now, every
>>time I play it, on any CD player, 4 tracks are missing. It has 18
>>tracks, but now only the first 14 show up. The CD looks fine, I don't
>>know if I should try the liquid scratch remover stuff, or what to do
>>to recover the missing tracks.
>>Anyone.....??
>
> Try it in a different player - maybe in your computer?
>
> IS there physical damage? If not, try for a free replacement.
> faulty CDs do get sold.

You sure your CD player hasn't got some 'remember favourite tracks' function
on it ?

Try sticking it into a computer and se how many tracks show up in Explorer,
then in Media Player, and the how many actually do play in there. Or
whatever the equivalent is in teh macworld.

Or maybe a 'friend' of yours has swapped your 'extended bonus issue' CD for
his own 'basic' version....

geoff.
November 15, 2004 11:45:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

I know there are 18 tracks because they are listed that way, and I
know the songs, meaning I can follow along and see exactly where it
stopped at what tracks it didn't play. It played them all the first
time. I can't return it to a store because I didn't buy it at a store.
I'm trying to contact the manufacturr, but with no luck so far. It's
an expensive import. The band is Psychic TV. I see no damage or
anything funny on the disc. The player I use at home is actually a DVD
player, but I've also tried it on my PC at work, CD drive. It is
strange that it just stopped at track 14. And both the player and PC
say it has 14 tracks now.

zzzz@zzzz.zzz (Barry Mann) wrote in message news:<4196e93b$2$avgroveq$mr2ice@wcnews.cyberonic.com>...
> In <ceb367c.0411091836.ced8617@posting.google.com>, on 11/09/04
> at 06:36 PM, gregf@kcls.org (fear) said:
>
> >I bought a new CD, played all the way through once, but now, every
> >time I play it, on any CD player, 4 tracks are missing. It has 18
> >tracks, but now only the first 14 show up. The CD looks fine, I don't
> >know if I should try the liquid scratch remover stuff, or what to do
> >to recover the missing tracks.
> >Anyone.....??
>
> How do you know that the disk should have 18 tracks? Most players
> report the number of tracks before they start to play. Is this where
> you saw "18" or does the CD jacket indicate "18"?
>
> It is possible for physical damage on the CD or the player to prevent a
> group of tracks from playing, but it is unlikely that these problems
> would start or stop neatly at a track boundary. If the CD or player has
> a problem, there could be good and bad days. On a good day you can play
> the CD.
>
> In most cases it is possible to see the physical damage on a problem
> CD, but I have encountered a couple discs that players didn't like, but
> looked OK to me.
>
> ---
>
> Not to be a pain, but when glancing at a 7-segment diasplay, it is not
> to hard to imagine how one might mistake a "4" for an "8".
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> spam: uce@ftc.gov
> wordgame:123(abc):<14 9 20 5 2 9 18 4 at 22 15 9 3 5 14 5 20 dot 3 15
> 13> (Barry Mann)
> [sorry about the puzzle, spammers are ruining my mailbox]
> -----------------------------------------------------------
Anonymous
November 16, 2004 1:15:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

In <ceb367c.0411152045.3a7f236@posting.google.com>, on 11/15/04
at 08:45 PM, gregf@kcls.org (fear) said:

>I know there are 18 tracks because they are listed that way,
[ ... ]
> And both the player and PC
>say it has 14 tracks now.

It's an odd situation because the TOC (Table Of Contents) should tell
the player how many tracks to expect. Unless someone delibertly created
a nonstandard disc, the table of contents should agree with the actual
contents, and on factory pressed discs this cannot be changed. It is
possible to have the table of contents disagree with the clock (the
"clock" is the name often given to the track display on the player),
but one would need to tinker with the disc mastering software to cause
this to happen.

Years ago an LP ("The National Lampoon Stereo Test Record") was created
that actually had three (Yes, that is [3]) sides. Technically, it was a
novel concept and it certainly caught the listener by surprise because
it was 50-50 that one would discover the second track on the flip side
of the record.

I would consider the possibilities that the liner notes are incorrect,
the disc mastering is non standard, or that someone is playing a joke
on you.

-----------------------------------------------------------
spam: uce@ftc.gov
wordgame:123(abc):<14 9 20 5 2 9 18 4 at 22 15 9 3 5 14 5 20 dot 3 15
13> (Barry Mann)
[sorry about the puzzle, spammers are ruining my mailbox]
-----------------------------------------------------------
November 16, 2004 7:40:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

Everything you say about the TOC is about what I thought and expected,
so I am quite puzzled too. But I heard the last 4 songs the first time
I played, that's the strange thing. It's like something has corrupted
the TOC. That's why I haven't tried the disc-skip fixer stuff, cause I
can tell it's not a matter of it skipping. I would think that if the
info at the beginning of the disc were damaged, it simply woulnd't
play at all.

zzzz@zzzz.zzz (Barry Mann) wrote in message news:<419a1e00$2$avgroveq$mr2ice@wcnews.cyberonic.com>...
> In <ceb367c.0411152045.3a7f236@posting.google.com>, on 11/15/04
> at 08:45 PM, gregf@kcls.org (fear) said:
>
> >I know there are 18 tracks because they are listed that way,
> [ ... ]
> > And both the player and PC
> >say it has 14 tracks now.
>
> It's an odd situation because the TOC (Table Of Contents) should tell
> the player how many tracks to expect. Unless someone delibertly created
> a nonstandard disc, the table of contents should agree with the actual
> contents, and on factory pressed discs this cannot be changed. It is
> possible to have the table of contents disagree with the clock (the
> "clock" is the name often given to the track display on the player),
> but one would need to tinker with the disc mastering software to cause
> this to happen.
>
> Years ago an LP ("The National Lampoon Stereo Test Record") was created
> that actually had three (Yes, that is [3]) sides. Technically, it was a
> novel concept and it certainly caught the listener by surprise because
> it was 50-50 that one would discover the second track on the flip side
> of the record.
>
> I would consider the possibilities that the liner notes are incorrect,
> the disc mastering is non standard, or that someone is playing a joke
> on you.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> spam: uce@ftc.gov
> wordgame:123(abc):<14 9 20 5 2 9 18 4 at 22 15 9 3 5 14 5 20 dot 3 15
> 13> (Barry Mann)
> [sorry about the puzzle, spammers are ruining my mailbox]
> -----------------------------------------------------------
Anonymous
November 16, 2004 11:38:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

"fear" <gregf@kcls.org> wrote in message
news:ceb367c.0411152045.3a7f236@posting.google.com...
>I know there are 18 tracks because they are listed that way, and I
> know the songs, meaning I can follow along and see exactly where it
> stopped at what tracks it didn't play. It played them all the first
> time. I can't return it to a store because I didn't buy it at a store.
> I'm trying to contact the manufacturr, but with no luck so far. It's
> an expensive import. The band is Psychic TV. I see no damage or
> anything funny on the disc. The player I use at home is actually a DVD
> player, but I've also tried it on my PC at work, CD drive. It is
> strange that it just stopped at track 14. And both the player and PC
> say it has 14 tracks now.

This just cannot happen. If the TOC was trashed, you wouldn't see any
tracks. Maybe your state was impaired the first time you listened, or the TV
had projected the tracks to you, psychically.

More likely one of your friends has done a swapsie on you, either on
purposse or inadvertently.

geoff
Anonymous
November 17, 2004 3:54:30 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

In article <ceb367c.0411161640.4a2bc851@posting.google.com>,
fear <gregf@kcls.org> wrote:

>Everything you say about the TOC is about what I thought and expected,
>so I am quite puzzled too. But I heard the last 4 songs the first time
>I played, that's the strange thing. It's like something has corrupted
>the TOC. That's why I haven't tried the disc-skip fixer stuff, cause I
>can tell it's not a matter of it skipping. I would think that if the
>info at the beginning of the disc were damaged, it simply woulnd't
>play at all.

Hmmm.

I agree, TOC damage doesn't sound all that likely. As I recall, and
according to one of Pohlmann's books, the TOC information is contained
in the subcode data in the disc's leadin area, and is repeated
multiple times throughout the leadin in order (presumably to make it
easier to locate and read, and I suppose to provide some protection
against damage). I suppose it's possible that a given disc might have
been [mis]mastered with only one repetition of the TOC data in the
leadin subcode, and that this might have been damaged, but it sounds
sorta unlikely.

Another possibility is one which has been alluded to before: this may
be some sort of oddball "enhanced" CD. It could, perhaps, have been
recorded as a multisession CD, with the first 14 tracks in the first
session, and the remaining four tracks being in a second session.

A standard Red Book CD player will look only at the disc's main TOC,
in the first session's leadin area... it will never "see" the second
or subsequent sessions.

This trick is often used to create an enhanced CD, with the second
session containing a data track that has a filesystem in it (usually
ISO9660). This data track may contain files such as graphics, videos,
MP3s, WAVs, etc., and would be visible only to a computer with a
multisession-capable CD-ROM drive.

There are a couple of variants of this which might explain what you
saw. The "missing" four tracks might be MP3 files in the data portion
of a multisession "enhanced" CD - they'd be invisible to audio CD
players, would not be "seen" by a computer CD-ROM drive in its "play
audio" mode, but might be visible to specialized computer software or
to a portable CD player which has MP3-playing capability. In fact,
it's possible that the data track contains MP3 copies of *all* of the
tracks, and that these are what you heard played the CD the first time.

Another, less likely possibility is that this is a nonstandard
multisession disc - one with 145 audio tracks in the first session,
and four audio tracks in the second session. This is an "illegal"
configuration, I believe, but that's not to say that somebody might
not have managed to master one, and that there might not be a CD
player somewhere which manages to play it.

Yet another possibility is that your CD has one or more "invisible"
selections... audio tracks which are recorded as part of the "pre-gap"
of track 1. These would show up on the display as Track 1, with a
negative time counter. On some CD players they'll play if you just
put the disc in and push Start, while on others you have to press
Start and then hold down the skip-back button.

Finally, as someone else has suggested, a "friend" might have
exchanged your "extended" version of the CD for an older copy which
has fewer tracks.

--
Dave Platt <dplatt@radagast.org> AE6EO
Hosting the Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!
November 17, 2004 4:54:55 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

This is all very intersting, but very unlikely. I can tell that it is
supposed to be a normal CD, 18 tracks of audio, no mp3s, enchanced
stuff, videos, just a normal 18 audio track/18 song CD to be played in
a normal CD player and only a normal CD player. That's all it is, and
all it was the first time it played. No one touched it since I bought
it except me. There are no other version of this release. Think of,
for instance, the first re-issue of the Beatles Let It Be on CD. Just
the songs, all of them listed, all of them on seperate tracks. It's
that simple. Nothing hidden or weird or enhanced, no other versions of
the disc.
I'm trying to contact the maker of the CD but not having any luck.
Thanks for all your help.

dplatt@radagast.org (Dave Platt) wrote in message news:<10pl8a661qddo0b@corp.supernews.com>...
> In article <ceb367c.0411161640.4a2bc851@posting.google.com>,
> fear <gregf@kcls.org> wrote:
>
> >Everything you say about the TOC is about what I thought and expected,
> >so I am quite puzzled too. But I heard the last 4 songs the first time
> >I played, that's the strange thing. It's like something has corrupted
> >the TOC. That's why I haven't tried the disc-skip fixer stuff, cause I
> >can tell it's not a matter of it skipping. I would think that if the
> >info at the beginning of the disc were damaged, it simply woulnd't
> >play at all.
>
> Hmmm.
>
> I agree, TOC damage doesn't sound all that likely. As I recall, and
> according to one of Pohlmann's books, the TOC information is contained
> in the subcode data in the disc's leadin area, and is repeated
> multiple times throughout the leadin in order (presumably to make it
> easier to locate and read, and I suppose to provide some protection
> against damage). I suppose it's possible that a given disc might have
> been [mis]mastered with only one repetition of the TOC data in the
> leadin subcode, and that this might have been damaged, but it sounds
> sorta unlikely.
>
> Another possibility is one which has been alluded to before: this may
> be some sort of oddball "enhanced" CD. It could, perhaps, have been
> recorded as a multisession CD, with the first 14 tracks in the first
> session, and the remaining four tracks being in a second session.
>
> A standard Red Book CD player will look only at the disc's main TOC,
> in the first session's leadin area... it will never "see" the second
> or subsequent sessions.
>
> This trick is often used to create an enhanced CD, with the second
> session containing a data track that has a filesystem in it (usually
> ISO9660). This data track may contain files such as graphics, videos,
> MP3s, WAVs, etc., and would be visible only to a computer with a
> multisession-capable CD-ROM drive.
>
> There are a couple of variants of this which might explain what you
> saw. The "missing" four tracks might be MP3 files in the data portion
> of a multisession "enhanced" CD - they'd be invisible to audio CD
> players, would not be "seen" by a computer CD-ROM drive in its "play
> audio" mode, but might be visible to specialized computer software or
> to a portable CD player which has MP3-playing capability. In fact,
> it's possible that the data track contains MP3 copies of *all* of the
> tracks, and that these are what you heard played the CD the first time.
>
> Another, less likely possibility is that this is a nonstandard
> multisession disc - one with 145 audio tracks in the first session,
> and four audio tracks in the second session. This is an "illegal"
> configuration, I believe, but that's not to say that somebody might
> not have managed to master one, and that there might not be a CD
> player somewhere which manages to play it.
>
> Yet another possibility is that your CD has one or more "invisible"
> selections... audio tracks which are recorded as part of the "pre-gap"
> of track 1. These would show up on the display as Track 1, with a
> negative time counter. On some CD players they'll play if you just
> put the disc in and push Start, while on others you have to press
> Start and then hold down the skip-back button.
>
> Finally, as someone else has suggested, a "friend" might have
> exchanged your "extended" version of the CD for an older copy which
> has fewer tracks.
Anonymous
November 18, 2004 1:32:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

"Barry Mann" <zzzz@zzzz.zzz> wrote in message
news:419a1e00$2$avgroveq$mr2ice@wcnews.cyberonic.com...
> Years ago an LP ("The National Lampoon Stereo Test Record") was created
> that actually had three (Yes, that is [3]) sides.

A pyramid shaped disk would not play on any turntable though.

>Technically, it was a
> novel concept

Not at all. Records with multiple tracks on each side were available in the
fifties if not before.

>and it certainly caught the listener by surprise because
> it was 50-50 that one would discover the second track on the flip side
> of the record.

Yes every person thinks they have discovered something new the first time.

TonyP.
April 4, 2012 3:51:52 PM

Too bad this was never resolved. I have the exact same problem as the original poster. I have a disk with 11 tracks, and all 11 played. On this particular CD there is also a bonus track. It played too. (car CD player)

Now, only 9 tracks show up in the playlist, in the car CD player, and on several computers, trying both DVD /CD drives and CD drives. Windows Explorer also shows only 9 tracks. I tried both VLC Media Player and Windows Media Player.

There is no obvious disk physical damage (just the typical tiny scratches found on most relatively new CDs that play just fine.) The 9 tracks play fine, and when it gets to the end of the 9th song, it loops to 1.

So, yes, somehow, the Table of Contents - even though it is burned on the disk - can and does get messed up. I would guess that the CD player software does not need the end of file marker at the end of the TOC file, but rather just starts reading, and stops listing when it encounters a problem. (I have seen this same behavior in JPG image files that were corrupted, and the top part of the image shows up.)

So, I think the TOC file is corrupt.

Washing the CD using dish washing detergent, rinsing well, and (circular) drying with a soft cloth did not fix it. (This has worked for me in the past with DVD movies that pixelate.)

Oh well, my favorite track was #11.

Dennis
!