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PS4 essentially get a low end GPU how do you feel about that?

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March 2, 2013 12:23:57 PM

Could this be a bad thing for pc gameing in 4+ years down the road, with multi-platform games held back even more by consoles? remember back in 2005 when the xbox was released the hardware that it had for this time was relatively high-end. when the ps4 arrives is going to be a low-end hardware with an AMD gpu that it is equivalent to the HD7850(ok right now it is barely a mid-rage card but in 9 months from now when the ps4 will be released is going to be a low-end gpu). what do you think?


PS4 GPU specs, and comparison with other AMD GPUs:

HD7850: 1.76 TFLOPS, Engine Clock 860Mhz, 16 Compute Units (1024 Stream Processors), 64 Texture Units , 2/4GB GDDR5 with 153.6GB/s memory bandwidth

PS4 GPU: 1.84 TFLOPS, Engine Clock 800Mhz, 18 Compute Units (1154 Stream Processors), 72 Texture Units , 8GB GDDR5 with 176.0GB/s memory bandwidth (shared with CPU)

HD7870: 2.56 TFLOPS, Engine Clock 1000Mhz, 20 Compute Units (1280 Stream Processors) , 80 Texture Units , 2/4GB GDDR5 with 153.6GB/s memory bandwidth

HD7950: 3.05 TFLOPS, Engine Clock 850Mhz, 28 Compute Units (1792 Stream Processors) , 112 Texture Units , 3GB GDDR5 with 240.0GB/s memory bandwidth

HD7970: 4.10 TFLOPS, Engine Clock 1000Mhz, 32 Compute Units (2048 Stream Processors) , 128 Texture Units , 3/6GB GDDR5 with 288.0GB/s memory bandwidth
March 2, 2013 12:51:27 PM

No, I think 7850 is the best card that we could expect based on 1) Price 2) power consumption (seriously you think they are going to put a 250 watt 7970 in a ps4? The xbox 360 had a tdp (original) or around 200 watts and had lots of overheating problems. No one seems to get this.)

Also, do you think every pc gamer has a 7850+? The average gpu in the average gamer's system is well below a 7850 (which in the ps4 will be a nice bump up).

If anything, I think the cpu is more worrying. 8 core bobcat is really not that powerful, especially when you consider the processing power kinect/move will require, not to mention that the new console OS will be much heavier than the current ones. I'm more worried about physics and AI, destructible environments, and realism suffering.

Honestly, the ps4 will hold back pc games much less (relatively speaking) than the xbox 360 or ps3 ever did for a couple reasons. First the similar cpu/gpu architectures which will make porting (and adding pc exclusive features like higher textures, AA, and other visual effects much easier).

Not to mention that they will be able to get much better results out of a console than a pc because they can directly code for it. I expect that the gpu in the ps4 will be able to output 7970 quality graphics
Anonymous
March 2, 2013 1:09:23 PM

Sadly this is the nature of consoles. To keep costs down they can't put in a high to upper mid level GPU. Imagine what the PS4 would costs if they put in a new i7, gtx 670/680/7970 GPU or newer. $799 or better. Most people wont pay the $499 as it stands at release now. Like it was when the PS3 first came out.
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March 2, 2013 1:14:26 PM

whyso said:
No, I think 7850 is the best card that we could expect based on 1) Price 2) power consumption (seriously you think they are going to put a 250 watt 7970 in a ps4? The xbox 360 had a tdp (original) or around 200 watts and had lots of overheating problems. No one seems to get this.)

Also, do you think every pc gamer has a 7850+? The average gpu in the average gamer's system is well below a 7850 (which in the ps4 will be a nice bump up).

If anything, I think the cpu is more worrying. 8 core bobcat is really not that powerful, especially when you consider the processing power kinect/move will require, not to mention that the new console OS will be much heavier than the current ones. I'm more worried about physics and AI, destructible environments, and realism suffering.

Honestly, the ps4 will hold back pc games much less (relatively speaking) than the xbox 360 or ps3 ever did for a couple reasons. First the similar cpu/gpu architectures which will make porting (and adding pc exclusive features like higher textures, AA, and other visual effects much easier).

Not to mention that they will be able to get much better results out of a console than a pc because they can directly code for it. I expect that the gpu in the ps4 will be able to output 7970 quality graphics

indeed the x86 architectures will be good thing for both ps4 and pc, but what i am saying is that the xbox 360 back then it was essentially a high end pc(more or less), this is not the case with the ps4 now.
a c 140 U Graphics card
March 2, 2013 2:48:25 PM

I don't think it matters as much because the PS4 game coders are able to code to the exact specifications of the graphics card (and processor/memory) installed. They'll be able to code their games to squeeze out every frame per second and still provide stunning visuals. PC Game coders do not have that luxury. They have to code for all level of platforms.

This is the exact reason why you can never compare console gaming against PC gaming.

-Wolf sends
March 2, 2013 3:07:53 PM

michaelmk86 said:
indeed the x86 architectures will be good thing for both ps4 and pc, but what i am saying is that the xbox 360 back then it was essentially a high end pc(more or less), this is not the case with the ps4 now.


You are not seeing my point.

The cut down x1900 in the xbox 360 had a tdp of around 100-120 watts (the xbox version was lower because it was slightly cut down). The 7970 has a tdp of 250 watts. The ps4 is perfectly comparable to the hardware in the ps3 when you look at power consumption of the components. It has nothing to do with high or low end. It has to do with power usage. How are they going to put a more power hungry gpu in the ps4 when they already realized all the heat problems that the xbox 360 had.
March 2, 2013 3:16:23 PM

Low end? What? The 5450 is low end. The PS4's GPU is better than the 7850. And that's better than my 6670.
a c 140 U Graphics card
March 2, 2013 4:11:52 PM

MajinCry said:
Low end? What? The 5450 is low end. The PS4's GPU is better than the 7850. And that's better than my 6670.


While I agree with you, you need to understand the mentality of the gamers I'm finding on this site. To them, anything less than an HD X67X or GTX X6X is not considered a "gaming" card. Anything with a "6" as the second digit of the model number is considered the "low-end" for gaming graphic cards. Generally, they also tend to not consider "low graphics" as an acceptable setting.

It's just a matter of perspective. Low-end for you and me would be the HDx4xx series cards. Low-end for the serious gamer, like many of the people who post in the Graphics Card or System Build forums, would be the HDx6xx. Yes, you and I could play Crysis 3 on an HD6450 at a low resolution and low graphic settings and be happy. Others simply won't be happy unless they average no less than 60fps with all settings on or above, "High" at a high native resolution.

-Wolf sends
a b U Graphics card
March 2, 2013 4:31:50 PM

It's nice to know the harware specs this early as now I can sit back and plan my next build... which by the ps4 specs will save me a lot of money!!!
Also as many have said the x86 platform will be a boost for us pc gamers as coding will be much easier for the game makers and an emulator will be a much more stable alternative!!!
March 2, 2013 6:42:32 PM

@Wolfshadw well said (written). I've been always a console gamer but recently I thought about PC gaming for the better graphics and modding flexibility (Skyrim is what really pushed me). For me, anything above 30fps is very acceptable to me. Based on suggestions and research here, I was thinking about a 7870 LE or even 7950 but then the more I read about the 7850, I found it more than capable for my needs. The PS4 is a standard platform and every ounce of performance is going to be squeezed out of it.

I pulled the trigger a couple of days ago and ordered my first gaming PC ever powered by an FX-6300 with 7850.. I am sure it's gonna WOW me good and I can't wait to receive the parts.

The PS4 sounds really interesting and given what had been achieved with the PS3 is very decent, the PS4 is going to trump it even more. So for console gamers, the PS4 is no low-end and even by today's standards it isn't.
a b U Graphics card
March 2, 2013 6:51:46 PM

Dude Sony and Microsoft are just hyping you up. When the next gen consoles are released, they still are pieces of junk.
a b U Graphics card
March 2, 2013 6:55:24 PM

Also remember that console's hardware is optimized to game only, where computer hardware is built for other things as well.
a c 147 U Graphics card
March 2, 2013 7:24:18 PM

Some points:

1) The PS4 hardware is actually quite awesome if you understand how consoles work.

2) The PS4 architecture is also very GOOD FOR PC GAMERS. Now that the architecture is the same we won't get crappy "PORTS" likely.

3) TESSELLATION:
- this one feature alone will start being heavily utilized which will improve the quality of games significantly. The reason we get many low-res textures is both due to memory and processing power limits. Tessellation allows the game engine to dynamically adjust the quality level.

*Features like Tessellation will see a big increase in usage once the PS4 and new XBOX start using them and that's just great.

4) An "x86 Console" is not an "x86 PC":
Many people don't get this. There's an incredible amount of optimizing for consoles.

5) PS4 Hardware:
I'll just point out one single thing and that's the MEMORY:

PS3: 256MB video, and 256MB System
PS4: 8192MB SHARED

The main issue with SKYRIM is a lack of System Memory. The PS4 will not only have 16x the total memory that the PS3 had but it's SHARED! That means that if you put Skyrim on the PS4 you could have 2000MB for Video and 6192MB for System for example. Do you think a jump from 256MB to 6192MB might alleviate those pesky memory issues?

6) Compare to a PC?
First of all, remember that the quality of games on the PS3 got better over time so that will happen with the PS4 though quicker as the x86 architecture is well understood whereas the PS3 on release was not at all.

Having said that, I'll go on record and say that we'll see games after say two years that are EQUAL or BETTER at 1920x1080 than any game on the PC market today, regardless of hardware. Yes, I said that.

Summary:
The PS4 is a great console. It will blow the PS3 away. It's not a "low-end PC" but the fact that it IS essentially a PC is great for cross-platform gaming.

The ONLY downside here is that next-gen console games will still take a while to be released, but other than that it's great for everybody.
March 2, 2013 7:32:01 PM

And it's 8 GB of GDDR5 memory, with a bandwidth of 173 GB/s. I'd say that would put the PS4's GPU in the mid range.
a c 147 U Graphics card
March 2, 2013 7:38:57 PM

A Bad Day said:
And it's 8 GB of GDDR5 memory, with a bandwidth of 173 GB/s. I'd say that would put the PS4's GPU in the mid range.


Again, you can't make a direct comparison like that to a PC.

Build a PC with the EXACT same specs as the XBOX360 (as close as possible anyway) and see how games compare on it compared to the console. It's not even close.
March 3, 2013 9:22:24 AM

photonboy said:
Again, you can't make a direct comparison like that to a PC.

Build a PC with the EXACT same specs as the XBOX360 (as close as possible anyway) and see how games compare on it compared to the console. It's not even close.

DX overhead have an impact on cpu and not on gpu. take a gpu that is as close as possible(architecture and GFLOPs) to the xbox gpu(240 GFLOPs) and the ati x1950pro(248 GFLOPs) and you will see running games like crysis2 with similar graphics and performance like the xbox.

remember xbox run crysis2 at 1152x720 (1024x720 for ps3), 20-30fps, and very near to the lowest settings available for pc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHWPGmf_A_0
March 3, 2013 9:22:30 AM

whyso said:
You are not seeing my point.

The cut down x1900 in the xbox 360 had a tdp of around 100-120 watts (the xbox version was lower because it was slightly cut down). The 7970 has a tdp of 250 watts. The ps4 is perfectly comparable to the hardware in the ps3 when you look at power consumption of the components. It has nothing to do with high or low end. It has to do with power usage. How are they going to put a more power hungry gpu in the ps4 when they already realized all the heat problems that the xbox 360 had.


We are not trying to investigate why the ps4 don't have a high-end gpu, what i am saying is that the xbox 360 back then it have the best gpu compared to the pc's at that period, this is not the case now with the ps4. So in 4+ years down the road consoles are going to held back pc's even more.
a c 147 U Graphics card
March 4, 2013 9:13:59 AM

michaelmk86 said:
We are not trying to investigate why the ps4 don't have a high-end gpu, what i am saying is that the xbox 360 back then it have the best gpu compared to the pc's at that period, this is not the case now with the ps4. So in 4+ years down the road consoles are going to held back pc's even more.


The reason for the choice of GPU is a combination of cost to produce the hardware and power consumption.

The BEST single-GPU card today is the Geforce Titan which costs $1000. Do you really expect an entire console with accessories that costs perhaps $400 to have the same components as a $2000 computer?

As for PC's being "held back" that's not really the case. The fact that that the new PS4 architecture is a PC is very good news. Newer game engines like the UNREAL 4 are designed specifically to scale as to make the cost of producing games over multiple platforms cheaper.

Saying the PS4 being a "low-end PC" will hold back regular PC's is a little like saying a cheap laptop will hold back the expensive gaming machines.

It's hard to discuss this topic with people if they don't understand just how much tweaking and new features like Tessellation are going to significantly improve the quality of games even on "low-end" machines like the PS4.

The bottom line is that the PS4 is far more powerful than the PS3 in hardware and the software techniques learned will allow developers to get more out of this hardware than previous gen could as well.

The PS4 design is EXACTLY where it should be.
a b U Graphics card
March 4, 2013 10:30:31 AM

I think it's a good thing... and AMD is sitting pretty.
a b U Graphics card
March 4, 2013 2:32:44 PM

Any of these cards is good but it wont any of these if you ask ME. I think it will be from amd but some cheaper. All I care is that now there will be better games for pcs. And most of all theres more chance for gta v for pc with that x86 thing (and no I dont know what it is (help wanted) but its going to help making pc games (heard that lots of CPUs have it))
a c 147 U Graphics card
March 4, 2013 4:27:59 PM

tadej petric said:
Any of these cards is good but it wont any of these if you ask ME. I think it will be from amd but some cheaper. All I care is that now there will be better games for pcs. And most of all theres more chance for gta v for pc with that x86 thing (and no I dont know what it is (help wanted) but its going to help making pc games (heard that lots of CPUs have it))


GTAV is out this year.

x86:
This refers to the general architecture of the CPU (main processor) for a desktop computer. Any x86 CPU understands the same language, so a program written for any desktop PC can run on the PS4.

Basically the fact that the hardware of the PS4 is identical to a PC means not only should porting issues be minimized but more games will be on PC as well as console since the cost to release on PC should be less than the extra cost to produce for PC.
a b U Graphics card
March 4, 2013 5:11:26 PM

photonboy said:
GTAV is out this year.

x86:
This refers to the general architecture of the CPU (main processor) for a desktop computer. Any x86 CPU understands the same language, so a program written for any desktop PC can run on the PS4.

Basically the fact that the hardware of the PS4 is identical to a PC means not only should porting issues be minimized but more games will be on PC as well as console since the cost to release on PC should be less than the extra cost to produce for PC.

Not out of this year! For consoles in september (17th I think) but for PC maybe in next year(hope not(hope it will be sooner)). Thanks anyway for that explanation!
a c 147 U Graphics card
March 4, 2013 10:58:50 PM

tadej petric said:
Not out of this year! For consoles in september (17th I think) but for PC maybe in next year(hope not(hope it will be sooner)). Thanks anyway for that explanation!


Your dates appear correct. I thought that was for PC but nothing official yet. It will be on PC but perhaps they can't commit to a date because they are focusing on the XBOX/PS3 versions.

I wanted to play GTAIV but it's sluggish (even on a GTX680/3770K/16GB rig). Then Saints Row 3 came out and it looked better and scratched the same itch.

I won't be buying GTAV at launch I can tell you that as it will likely have lots of patches.
June 11, 2013 1:59:45 PM

michaelmk86 said:
whyso said:
No, I think 7850 is the best card that we could expect based on 1) Price 2) power consumption (seriously you think they are going to put a 250 watt 7970 in a ps4? The xbox 360 had a tdp (original) or around 200 watts and had lots of overheating problems. No one seems to get this.)

Also, do you think every pc gamer has a 7850+? The average gpu in the average gamer's system is well below a 7850 (which in the ps4 will be a nice bump up).

If anything, I think the cpu is more worrying. 8 core bobcat is really not that powerful, especially when you consider the processing power kinect/move will require, not to mention that the new console OS will be much heavier than the current ones. I'm more worried about physics and AI, destructible environments, and realism suffering.

Honestly, the ps4 will hold back pc games much less (relatively speaking) than the xbox 360 or ps3 ever did for a couple reasons. First the similar cpu/gpu architectures which will make porting (and adding pc exclusive features like higher textures, AA, and other visual effects much easier).

Not to mention that they will be able to get much better results out of a console than a pc because they can directly code for it. I expect that the gpu in the ps4 will be able to output 7970 quality graphics

indeed the x86 architectures will be good thing for both ps4 and pc, but what i am saying is that the xbox 360 back then it was essentially a high end pc(more or less), this is not the case with the ps4 now.


I disagree. Back in 2005-2006 there were PC's much faster than xbox 360 so...I don't know why I always have to find these kind of topics around the net. PS4 is to PC's as the PS2 was and also the PS3/360 were, nothing more to say.
June 11, 2013 2:29:46 PM

I don't really care if PS4 has a low end GPU the reason I buying console if for the exclusives
June 14, 2013 4:19:15 PM

Esteve Guineueta said:
michaelmk86 said:
whyso said:
No, I think 7850 is the best card that we could expect based on 1) Price 2) power consumption (seriously you think they are going to put a 250 watt 7970 in a ps4? The xbox 360 had a tdp (original) or around 200 watts and had lots of overheating problems. No one seems to get this.)

Also, do you think every pc gamer has a 7850+? The average gpu in the average gamer's system is well below a 7850 (which in the ps4 will be a nice bump up).

If anything, I think the cpu is more worrying. 8 core bobcat is really not that powerful, especially when you consider the processing power kinect/move will require, not to mention that the new console OS will be much heavier than the current ones. I'm more worried about physics and AI, destructible environments, and realism suffering.

Honestly, the ps4 will hold back pc games much less (relatively speaking) than the xbox 360 or ps3 ever did for a couple reasons. First the similar cpu/gpu architectures which will make porting (and adding pc exclusive features like higher textures, AA, and other visual effects much easier).

Not to mention that they will be able to get much better results out of a console than a pc because they can directly code for it. I expect that the gpu in the ps4 will be able to output 7970 quality graphics

indeed the x86 architectures will be good thing for both ps4 and pc, but what i am saying is that the xbox 360 back then it was essentially a high end pc(more or less), this is not the case with the ps4 now.


I disagree. Back in 2005-2006 there were PC's much faster than xbox 360 so...I don't know why I always have to find these kind of topics around the net. PS4 is to PC's as the PS2 was and also the PS3/360 were, nothing more to say.


January 2004 -
22 months before xbox release there wasn't a GPU setup that could even come close to the xbox performance.
November 2005 - xbox released. (still thee is no pc gpu can beat the xbox gpu)

January 2012 - released a single GPU (HD7970GHz) that performs 2 times better than ps4 GPU.
November 2013 - ps4 released. (22 months late and half the performance).

November 4, 2013 12:20:32 PM

Can you guys stop sweating that your pc won't be as good as the new consoles and calling them "low end pc's" because you can't admit you're going to be second best. maybe if you climbed out of your own arses you could see the disadvantages of next gen and make a decent argument. Can you multiscreen on console? no. can you upgrade your console? no. Just think of all the things a pc has that console doesn't. Your mate comes and brags about his next gen, just open up Microsoft word, can he do that? no xD
November 4, 2013 1:45:34 PM

HMS-ratters said:
Can you guys stop sweating that your pc won't be as good as the new consoles and calling them "low end pc's" because you can't admit you're going to be second best. maybe if you climbed out of your own arses you could see the disadvantages of next gen and make a decent argument. Can you multiscreen on console? no. can you upgrade your console? no. Just think of all the things a pc has that console doesn't. Your mate comes and brags about his next gen, just open up Microsoft word, can he do that? no xD


are you saying pc gamers are going to be second best or console gamers going to be second best
November 24, 2013 10:41:57 AM

meowmix44 said:
Dude Sony and Microsoft are just hyping you up. When the next gen consoles are released, they still are pieces of junk.


only a pc pirate freak gamer would say that-- the console totally destroy pc because of unpirate most devoloper will leave pc if you try to learn a moronic pc gamer to stop pirating he even is proud of it.. optimazion an example is the ps3 ram 256 mb ram plays bf3 pc 256 ram cant even start up without 10 second freezes they should stop making pcs and rip kids like you of just do a console every 2 years for pure optimazion so you don't waste your money and a pc is impossible and uncompatible with a big tv in the living room the only conroller dashboard it can get is the shitty steam one that only includes steam features and has 0 multimedia feature you will always need your keyboard mouse and need to adjust the size of all because on a big tv you wont see text the xbox one destroys the pc when it comes to the big tv you can voice control while gaming record with one word etc pc won't have this in 20 years
a c 140 U Graphics card
November 24, 2013 11:38:07 AM

It was a pointless thread 8 months ago and it's a pointless thread now. You cannot compare console gaming to PC gaming.

-Wolf sends
a b U Graphics card
November 24, 2013 5:55:29 PM

Someone needs to go through puberty and learn how to spell.
January 27, 2014 12:54:30 PM

Consoles are going to die pretty soon anyway. With the new manufacturing processes eventually devices like an iPhone will be able to provide a good gaming experience and eventually will undermine consoles. This may be the last generation of consoles and if you don't believe me just look up diminishing returns.

Extra: The guy that bought the gaming desktop is a complete moron. If you don't understand PC hardware then go back to your xboner or playdildo 4
!