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Survivor vs. Presidential news conferences

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Anonymous
April 28, 2005 11:25:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Ok, here's your chance to show how great your DVR is. I suspect
they *ALL* get it wrong.

According to a local radio station, which had been in touch with
the local CBS affiliate, Survivor is going to get cut in half by a
presidential news conference. Assuming, for the moment, that CBS
manages to guess correctly when the second half of Survivor is going
to end up starting, what will your DVR, which you told last week
to record Survivor (and haven't looked at the schedule since), end
up recording?

Yes, one of the DJ's on the radio station was asking how it would
affect his TiVo. The suggestion from the station was a manual
recording from 6PM to midnight on CBS every weekday.

My guess is that ALL of them will get it wrong, even if the guide
data manages to correctly guess how long the news conference will
take, and the info gets distributed soon enough.

Does anyone think GWB is going to get voted off the tube?

Gordon L. Burditt
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 1:54:59 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Gordon Burditt" <gordonb.1h1g5@burditt.org> wrote in message news:1172e4iggcuu2c9@corp.supernews.com...
> Ok, here's your chance to show how great your DVR is. I suspect
> they *ALL* get it wrong.
>
> According to a local radio station, which had been in touch with
> the local CBS affiliate, Survivor is going to get cut in half by a
> presidential news conference. Assuming, for the moment, that CBS
> manages to guess correctly when the second half of Survivor is going
> to end up starting, what will your DVR, which you told last week
> to record Survivor (and haven't looked at the schedule since), end
> up recording?
>
> Yes, one of the DJ's on the radio station was asking how it would
> affect his TiVo. The suggestion from the station was a manual
> recording from 6PM to midnight on CBS every weekday.
>
> My guess is that ALL of them will get it wrong, even if the guide
> data manages to correctly guess how long the news conference will
> take, and the info gets distributed soon enough.
>
...

Who exactly is "ALL of them"? Your TiVo will record programs you
have selected which have program guide information. If "last minute"
changes alter the programming schedule, it is not a fault of your
TiVo or the program guide supplier.

You need to tune in and pay attention on the channels you want to record
tonight prior to the press conference. There may be an announcement
of program schedule changes. You might want to keep informed by listening
to the President also.

This situation is not much different than that which occurs Sunday evenings
during the NFL season. The networks don't know when a game will end
and they don't know how long a Presidential press conference will take.
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 2:17:43 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

>Who exactly is "ALL of them"?

All DVRs that use a program guide. DVRs that don't use a program guide
are obviously going to get it wrong.

>Your TiVo will record programs you
>have selected which have program guide information. If "last minute"
>changes alter the programming schedule, it is not a fault of your
>TiVo or the program guide supplier.

If the changes are NOT "last minute" (it's at least possible that
updates could get into the guide for TiVos that call in an hour
before the show), how does one indicate in the program guide that
a program will be on from 7:00-7:30 and then 8:30-9:00 as a
continuation of the same program? (without having the "season pass
first run and repeats without duplicates" omit recording the second
half because it already recorded the first half).

>You need to tune in and pay attention on the channels you want to record
>tonight prior to the press conference. There may be an announcement
>of program schedule changes. You might want to keep informed by listening
>to the President also.
>
>This situation is not much different than that which occurs Sunday evenings
>during the NFL season. The networks don't know when a game will end
>and they don't know how long a Presidential press conference will take.

Yes, but this is the first time I've seen them split one program into two
parts. I don't think that's happened with football games.

Gordon L. Burditt
Related resources
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 2:17:44 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

> Yes, but this is the first time I've seen them split one program into two
> parts. I don't think that's happened with football games.
>
> Gordon L. Burditt

If they truly do split the show into 2 parts, then it'll depend on how
the guide is marked. If the description is identical, I'd guess (though
I could certainly be wrong if the selection processes take into account
duration), then I'd imagine that the DVR would treat it as a repeat and
not record the second part. If it's marked correctly as 2 parts, then
I'd say it would record correctly. But the most likely event is that it
won't be reflected in the guide at all, and your DVR will record the
normal time slot and miss the second part while getting part of the speech.

Randy S.
April 29, 2005 3:07:16 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

gordonb.73lif@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) wrote in news:1172o87mbmfluc6
@corp.supernews.com:

> Yes, but this is the first time I've seen them split one program into two
> parts. I don't think that's happened with football games.

Is there a verifiable cite for this, other than "some radio station said
they spoke to some CBS affiliate"? And assuming such exists, is it better
than cbs.com, which says Survivor will be on after the news conference?

Now, if a local affiliate choses to show the program basically whenever
they feel like, with complete disregard to any schedule, then no...TiVo
will not catch that. Neither will any DVR, VCR, or any recording device.
Nor is is even remotely possible to do so. It WILL be caught, however, by
viewers who complain, getting the affiliate in huge truouble and causing
some heads to roll. And I can guarantee you, whoever decided chopping a
show into chunks to be shown randomly was a good idea will be one of those
heads.

--
Minister of All Things Digital & Electronic, and Holder of Past Knowledge
stile99@email.com. Cabal# 24601-fnord | Sleep is irrelevant.
I speak for no one but myself, and |Caffeine will be assimilated.
no one else speaks for me. O- | Decaf is futile.
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 4:26:33 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

>> Yes, but this is the first time I've seen them split one program into two
>> parts. I don't think that's happened with football games.
>
>Is there a verifiable cite for this, other than "some radio station said
>they spoke to some CBS affiliate"? And assuming such exists, is it better
>than cbs.com, which says Survivor will be on after the news conference?

Well, the radio report wasn't accurate. It said the news conference
would start at 7:30PM (live), and it seems to have started at 7:00PM
(live), so Survivor is NOT split. The guide data hasn't changed
from earlier in the week.

The radio station was KVIL, the broadcast in question was about 9AM,
and the local affiliate is Channel 11 KTVT in Dallas/Fort Worth.

>Now, if a local affiliate choses to show the program basically whenever
>they feel like, with complete disregard to any schedule, then no...TiVo
>will not catch that.

It's not impossible to update the schedule, although in this case,
they didn't. I don't know when they actually decided to make
the change.

Gordon L. Burditt
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 6:30:11 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

>Nor is is even remotely possible to do so.

Yes, it is, if the schedule is updated. How much notice did the
affiliates have?

>It WILL be caught, however, by
>viewers who complain, getting the affiliate in huge truouble and causing
>some heads to roll. And I can guarantee you, whoever decided chopping a
>show into chunks to be shown randomly was a good idea will be one of those
>heads.

Does anyone know when the starting time of the press conference
was actually made final? (and someone told the press about it)?

I'm curious what you would do as program manager of KTVT, given the
following hypothetical situation (which does not match what actually
happened, but sorta follows what the radio show people thought would
happen):

(1) The press conference starts at 7:30PM, not 7:00PM Central (evidently
someone thought it did during that radio announcement, so they
started talking about splitting Survivor). You don't have half
an hour worth of pre-press-conference filler. You have got an
unlimited selection of filler half-hour shows like "Celebrity Justice"
which isn't normally presented in prime time.
(2) The press conference was estimated to take half an hour (and
actually does so). I'm not going to pretend this is realistic
or matches what really happened (it took close to an hour).
(3) The shows normally presented according to the schedule are
Survivor, CSI, and Without a Trace, popular one-hour shows that
will get complaints if you butcher them, followed by the news
(which will also draw complaints if you move it) and the Late Show
with David Letterman.

Ok, what do you show from 7:00PM to 7:30PM? What do you take off
the schedule?

Gordon L. Burditt
April 29, 2005 6:45:04 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

gordonb.k9pgh@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) wrote in news:117371jjvsu94b0
@corp.supernews.com:

> I'm curious what you would do as program manager of KTVT, given the
> following hypothetical situation (which does not match what actually
> happened, but sorta follows what the radio show people thought would
> happen):

I'm curious what you would do if a UFO landed in your backyard and Elvis
walked out. Hey, as long as we're making up things that don't happen...

> (1) The press conference starts at 7:30PM, not 7:00PM Central (evidently
> someone thought it did during that radio announcement, so they
> started talking about splitting Survivor). You don't have half
> an hour worth of pre-press-conference filler. You have got an
> unlimited selection of filler half-hour shows like "Celebrity Justice"
> which isn't normally presented in prime time.
> (2) The press conference was estimated to take half an hour (and
> actually does so). I'm not going to pretend this is realistic
> or matches what really happened (it took close to an hour).
> (3) The shows normally presented according to the schedule are
> Survivor, CSI, and Without a Trace, popular one-hour shows that
> will get complaints if you butcher them, followed by the news
> (which will also draw complaints if you move it) and the Late Show
> with David Letterman.
>
> Ok, what do you show from 7:00PM to 7:30PM? What do you take off
> the schedule?

You ARE aware that networks have told the President where to stick his news
conferences in the past, correct? Were his media staff so amazingly stupid
as to do such as described above, I would do what others who have held the
job have done...stuck with the schedule. Of course, I would have long
since been fired for gross incompetence were I a scheduling manager who
couldn't cough up half an hour of programming.

--
Minister of All Things Digital & Electronic, and Holder of Past Knowledge
stile99@email.com. Cabal# 24601-fnord | Sleep is irrelevant.
I speak for no one but myself, and |Caffeine will be assimilated.
no one else speaks for me. O- | Decaf is futile.
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 7:36:52 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 02:30:11 -0000, gordonb.k9pgh@burditt.org (Gordon
Burditt) wrote:

>>Nor is is even remotely possible to do so.
>
>Yes, it is, if the schedule is updated. How much notice did the
>affiliates have?

>with David Letterman.
>
>Ok, what do you show from 7:00PM to 7:30PM? What do you take off
>the schedule?
>
> Gordon L. Burditt

Bush
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 7:36:53 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

could TiVo at least adjust units connected via the internet rather than the
ones that rely on telephone connections? It seems doable with a couple
hours of notice or am I just off the mark?
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 11:33:16 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

DannyP wrote:
> could TiVo at least adjust units connected via the internet rather than the
> ones that rely on telephone connections? It seems doable with a couple
> hours of notice or am I just off the mark?
>
>

They could, but they don't control the programming or the guide data,
that comes from someone else. And they're not that fast on the draw
when it comes to updating info. Guide data generally needs at *least* a
couple days (more like a week) of warning before it get's updated.

Randy S.
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 6:57:21 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Randy S." <rswittNO@SPAMgmail.com> wrote in message
news:D 4t61s$lj8$1@spnode25.nerdc.ufl.edu...
> DannyP wrote:
> > could TiVo at least adjust units connected via the internet rather than
the
> > ones that rely on telephone connections? It seems doable with a couple
> > hours of notice or am I just off the mark?
> >
> >
>
> They could, but they don't control the programming or the guide data,
> that comes from someone else. And they're not that fast on the draw
> when it comes to updating info. Guide data generally needs at *least* a
> couple days (more like a week) of warning before it get's updated.

Not only that, but I think it's still based on the unit calling in to Tivo,
not the other way around; I don't know that they're set up to "push" a
schedule update, even if an update existed.

Ed
89CamaroZ28@nowherenow.com
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 11:39:10 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

>Not only that, but I think it's still based on the unit calling in to Tivo,
>not the other way around; I don't know that they're set up to "push" a
>schedule update, even if an update existed.

They can't "push". Most TiVos call in via phone, and their owners
would get upset if TiVo took to answering all incoming phone calls.
Even those TiVos that call in over the Internet can't accept "push".
A lot of them are behind NAT gateways and they can't get incoming
connections. And even if the TiVo accepted incoming connections,
they are a security nightmare when the admin (grandparent whose son
bought her a TiVo and set it up, who doesn't really know what this
"Internet" thing is anyway) doesn't know about it.

You CAN force a daily call (manually with the remote control) if
you think the schedule has been changing and want an update. I did
just before the latest Presidential news conference. Nothing changed
relative to that, although I probably got some new info 2 weeks
out.

If they managed to update the schedule two hours before the affected
shows, maybe 2/24 of the TiVos would get the updated info in time,
assuming an evenly spread call-in schedule (although it seems like
it's more heavily weighted to call in overnight).

Sometimes they have managed to fix the schedule *AFTER* the show
aired something that wasn't on the schedule. Mostly, this lets
season passes with "first run and repeats, no duplicates" record
the show that was supposed to be on when it's run later, and correct
the title in Now Playing. Or, at least I've seen it work that way
a couple of times.

Gordon L. Burditt
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 11:39:11 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

> They can't "push". Most TiVos call in via phone, and their owners
> would get upset if TiVo took to answering all incoming phone calls.
> Even those TiVos that call in over the Internet can't accept "push".
> A lot of them are behind NAT gateways and they can't get incoming
> connections. And even if the TiVo accepted incoming connections,
> they are a security nightmare when the admin (grandparent whose son
> bought her a TiVo and set it up, who doesn't really know what this
> "Internet" thing is anyway) doesn't know about it.

Well, I was going to describe why "pull" is usually a better choice
rather than "push" as well, but you did a nice job of it ;-).

Randy S.
Anonymous
April 30, 2005 8:34:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

In article <11753aunak67k49@corp.supernews.com>,
gordonb.5acvn@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) writes:
>
> They can't "push". Most TiVos call in via phone, and their owners
> would get upset if TiVo took to answering all incoming phone calls.

[Perfectly valid elaboration snipped.]

I have one exception to add to the above: DirecTiVos receive their guide
data from the satellite connection. That data is "pushed" rather than
"pulled," so in theory, if the data could be sent down the pipeline
quickly enough, DirecTiVos could get updates for changes that are
scheduled just a few minutes or hours before. (I don't know what the
practical and technical limits are on this, though. If nothing else, I
know that even DirecTiVos only index their data every once in a while, so
my hunch is anything less than 12 or 24 hours would be unreliable.)

In practice, I don't think DirecTiVos are much, if any, better than SA
TiVos in getting last-minute programming updates. The data stream from TV
stations to the TiVo is just not meant for really rapid dissemination of
changes.

--
Rod Smith, rodsmith@rodsbooks.com
http://www.rodsbooks.com
Author of books on Linux, FreeBSD, and networking
Anonymous
April 30, 2005 8:34:52 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Rod Smith (rodsmith@nessus.rodsbooks.com) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
> I have one exception to add to the above: DirecTiVos receive their guide
> data from the satellite connection. That data is "pushed" rather than
> "pulled," so in theory, if the data could be sent down the pipeline
> quickly enough, DirecTiVos could get updates for changes that are
> scheduled just a few minutes or hours before. (I don't know what the
> practical and technical limits are on this, though. If nothing else, I
> know that even DirecTiVos only index their data every once in a while, so
> my hunch is anything less than 12 or 24 hours would be unreliable.)

DirecTiVos can be forced to re-index by the right guide packet, so a
"special" can be caught. People have reported that they have seen changes
in the To Do list with as little as 2 hours to go before the start of a
program.

> In practice, I don't think DirecTiVos are much, if any, better than SA
> TiVos in getting last-minute programming updates. The data stream from TV
> stations to the TiVo is just not meant for really rapid dissemination of
> changes.

This is the larger issue. If Tribune doesn't get a change from a TV
station, then it can't possibly hit your TiVo. This part usually takes
12-24 hours at the fastest.

--
Jeff Rife |
| http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/TractorBeam.jpg
!