Random BSODs - Replaced Almost Entire PC out of Ideas.

[mariomanz28]

Hello everyone. This is going to be a long and boring post so please bare with me.

A little about myself. I am 28 years old and have been messing with computers since I was about 12. I got into PC repair when I was about 16 and recently (Oct 2011) became A+ Certified. I run my own repair shop out of my house. I'd like to think I've got quite a bit of experience under my belt. With that out of the way I have been fighting a now 2 month old problem. I am just completely out of ideas so I've came here hoping to pick some peoples brains.

Now I have been running my main computer for about 4 years since I built it. Haven't had a minutes trouble with it until I decided to buy some extra memory.
Original Specs:
AMD Phenom X4 9950 BE
4GB (2x 2GB) Corsair XMS2 DHX DDR2 800
BFG 8800GTS 512mb (upgrade to a GTX260 about Aug or Sept 2011)
Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme Gamer Fatality Pro
320GB SATAII WD
500GB SATAII Seagate
DVD burner
630w Rosewill

After Christmas I order another 4GB of the exact same memory. Got it after New Years, installed it, ran with it for about 2-3 weeks until the end of January. Then the BSODs started happening. I fought and fought the memory. Ran Memtest86+ (since all the BSODs mentioned a memory problem from everything I read) and received no errors on the memory.

After a bit my motherboard died, thinking it to blame for the memory issues, I replaced it. Well that didn't fix the problem, BSODs still continued with all 8GB. Pulled the 2 old sticks out for a while, ran into more BSODs. Pulled the new out put the old back in. BSODs went away. Remembering I tested the memory, thinking it was still good just needed some adjustments I went to work on testing various timings and voltages. Nothing worked with all 8GB installed.

Thinking it perhaps a memory controller issue in the old Phenom, I bought a Phenom II X4 980. BSODs still persisted. Back to Memtest86+. No errors with all 4 sticks, yet still crashes. Friend gave me the idea to alternate them. I stuck 1 old, 1 new, 1 old, 1 new. Ran like that for about a week, BSODs came back. Pulled 2 new sticks and ran with the 2 old ones for a while. BSODs then start happening with the old sticks.

Calling a friend up who has a similar system and actually has exact same PSU as mine, I trade PSUs with him. BSODs continue for me, his system running fine.

Replace both hard drives with a new one. Fresh install of Windows 7 x64 nothing from old drives on new one. BSODs some more during the 2nd batch of Windows Updates. No drivers installed outside of default Windows 7 ones. "Standard VGA" driver for video, no driver at all for the X-Fi.

Pulled soundcard and disconnected extra PATA burner I had, leaving just the SATA one. Enable onboard sound, reordered the memory (back to 2x old 2x new layout). Still BSODs. Sounding like a broken record I know.

So far since installing the new HD with a fresh copy of Windows, I have had 5 crashes. 2 MEMORY_MANAGEMENT 1 PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA 1 DRIVER_VERIFIER_DETECTED_VIOLATION (note this one I have never received before, the others I have) and 1 IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL

The DRIVER_VERIFIER crash was Ntfs.sys, the rest have been ntoskrnl.exe.

I have also received errors based off a video driver (sorry for complete lack of naming here but I don't have the previous dumps) dxgmm something and porti something. STOP codes have been anything from 00, 0a, 1a, 50, c4, d1, 7e, and 7f. I can either be gaming, surfing the internet, watching a video on youtube or hulu, watching a video file on the HD, or even sleeping/not at the PC.

Something else I did also was change video cards. For compairson of my previous specs above to my current to show exactly how much I have replaced to get rid of this error.

AMD Phenom II X4 980 BE (was Phenom X4 9950 BE)
ASRock A770DE+ Motherboard (from 4 year old Gigabyte)
8GB (4x 2GB) Corsair XMS2DHX DDR2 800 (2 sticks brand new, 2 4 years old) MemTest86+ ran numerous times on different combinations, yielding NO ERRORS. About 48+hrs of testing over 40 passes (ran 19 passes overnight one night with all 8GB), again not one single error
EVGA GTX460 1GB (was running a GTX260 when the problems started)
Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeGamer Fatality Pro (removed and used onboard sound, still received BSOD)
1TB WD Caviar Black (replaced both original hard drivers, fresh install of Win7, no change)
630w Rosewill (my friend and I have exact same PSU, so I exchanged it with him, no change)

The only thing left from the previous build aside from the sound card which I've tried removing is the SATA DVD burner and the 2 old sticks of memory, which as I've mentioned both pairs cause BSOD and both pairs seperate or together yield no errors at all in Memtest86+.

I can go hours without a BSOD or I can get multiple within an hour. I honestly have exhausted everything I know, and my wallet (lol) trying to fix this problem but nothing seems to help. Maybe it's the case? lol.

Would love to see if anyone out there has any insight into this issue as it has really started to get old.

The 5 crash minidumps I have had so far since freshly installing Windows 7 on this new drive are located here.

I will upload future dump files here as well. I will update here if I have any more and if I think of anything else to add to the post. I will probably forget something as it's almost 3:30am here and this problem has been going on since the end of January.

EDIT (6:08PMEST/3/31/12): 3 new crash dumps uploaded
033112-17921-01.dmp 3/31/2012 4:03:41 PM IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL 0x0000000a <---Today copying files from one of the old hard drives to the new one, opened winamp after just installing it soon as it popped up BSOD hit.
033012-12671-01.dmp 3/30/2012 10:37:30 PM KMODE_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED 0x0000001e <---Rebooted, back to finishing the video I was watching, hit me again.
033012-13375-01.dmp 3/30/2012 10:29:38 PM REFERENCE_BY_POINTER 0x00000018 <---This is a new one for me. Was watching a youtube video in firefox.

 

[shadow_city]

I would start with the memory. Even though they may seem like the exact same memory, over time different revisions come out. Put your old build in and everything without the the new memory.

If all goes well, you have found your problem. Good luck.

 

[bignastyid]

"maybe it's the case?" that's a possibility, it could be causing a short. Assemble the system outside of the case and see if the bsods still occur. What about external devices? It could be a defective mouse or keyboard, have those been swapped?

 

[gamerk316]

Bug Check 0xA: IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL

This indicates that Microsoft Windows or a kernel-mode driver accessed paged memory at DISPATCH_LEVEL or above.

Bug Check 0x1A: MEMORY_MANAGEMENT

This indicates that a severe memory management error occurred.

Bug Check 0x50: PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA

This indicates that invalid system memory has been referenced.

Bug Check 0x7E: SYSTEM_THREAD_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED

This bug check indicates that a system thread generated an exception that the error handler did not catch.

Bug Check 0x7F: UNEXPECTED_KERNEL_MODE_TRAP

This bug check indicates that the Intel CPU generated a trap and the kernel failed to catch this trap.

Bug Check 0xC4: DRIVER_VERIFIER_DETECTED_VIOLATION

This is the general bug check code for fatal errors found by Driver Verifier.

Bug Check 0xD1: DRIVER_IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL

This indicates that a kernel-mode driver attempted to access pageable memory at a process IRQL that was too high.

You have one of a memory problem or a driver problem. I can't say which at this point in time.

Since memtest is comming up clean, run Prime95's blend test. If that catches any errors, then its RAM.

Failing that, run sfc /scannow to see if the OS picks up any corrupt drivers.

If you still have issues, run on a SINGLE stick of RAM at a time, and try and isolate sticks that crash against sticks that don't. Might have a mobo or something that doesn't like 4 RAM sticks or something...

The first 5 BSOD messages are normal memory related BSOD's, but the last two are clearly driver related. So either a bad driver is corrupting RAM, or bad RAM is corrupting driver memory.

 

[mariomanz28]

@shadow_city: As I stated in my 1st post, I have used both the old pair and new pair sepatately. I started out just running the 2 new sticks and still received BSODs. I ran the 2 old sticks (the ones that never gave me a minutes problem) for about a week then it too started BSODing.

@BigNastyID: That is one thing I haven't considered but that will have to wait till later this weekend to try since sometimes it can be hours before I get a BSOD. Good idea though.

@gamerk316: Actually ran Prime95 last night for about 30 mins, 24 tests 0 warnings 0 errors. Might do it longer today if I get the chance, but might have to wait till this weekend. As for corrupted drivers. I'm litterally on a less-than-day-old install of Windows 7 x64. I haven't even installed my GPU and sound drivers yet, or ANY other driver for that matter, everything atm is what comes with Windows. Still getting BSOD so I'm pretty sure this rules out it being a software issue. Now I haven't tried a single stick, but I have tried both OLD and NEW pairs. New pair gave BSODs old pair didn't until about a week later. So both pairs old and new cause BSODs just by themselves when I know for a fact the old pair ran 4 years in the original build and never did I once have a single BSOD. It almost seems if the problem is intermitten, like maybe the memory shows fine but then "spikes" or something and corrupts the data. I don't know weird problem I have seen in 12+ years of experience. The problem really here is I can't reliably reproduce the issue. I can play a game 5 mins and it crashes or 5 hours and it doesn't crash. I can watch 3-4 shows on Hulu get 1 that crashes 2 times in 1st 20 mins of the show then never happen again during any of the other shows or anything. Let me ask, Corsair has already agreed to replace all 4 sticks (gotta love Lifetime Warranty) do y'all think I should just replace them all and not worry about it? I mean for sure thinking this is definitely memory related.

 

[geekapproved]

What is the proper voltage for this memory according to the sticker on the ram? Is that what you have it set to in bios?

 

[nbelote]

What is the proper voltage for this memory according to the sticker on the ram? Is that what you have it set to in bios?

Also, make sure to set the timings per that sticker as well. If one set has slower timings than the other then you need to go with the slower timings, even if that means you need to set them manually. Theoretically the faster RAM should downclock itself but you could easily be in that small %age where that just doesn't want to happen.

 

[mariomanz28]

Also, make sure to set the timings per that sticker as well. If one set has slower timings than the other then you need to go with the slower timings, even if that means you need to set them manually. Theoretically the faster RAM should downclock itself but you could easily be in that small %age where that just doesn't want to happen.

I have messed with all kinds of timings and voltages. The memory is identical down to the part number, same timings everything. The RAM itself, SPD rates at the standard 1.8v for DDR2. However on the old board with the old memory it always ran at 2.0V. New board same deal, I can manually set the DRAM voltage on this board however it WILL NOT go lower than 2.0. Even if I set the voltage to 1.9 it stays at 2.0. Currently I'm running RAM at 2.1 (a lot of people recommended 2.0-2.1 for 4 DDR2 sticks) also increased the NB voltage from 1.1 to 1.125V. Timings and voltages were some of the 1st things I tried after replacing the motherboard.

 

[nbelote]

Have you tried some other RAM? Borrowing your friend's, for example?

 

[sbogus]

do y'all think I should just replace them all and not worry about it? I mean for sure thinking this is definitely memory related.

I'd analyze the dumps, myself, but that does reek of a memory issue.
Could be the memory controller on the board or the sticks themselves.
Just out of curiosity, have you ran it through IBT? Nothing finds a bad stick faster.

Have you checked the PS? Heck, for all we know, there's a voltage regulator on the board that got static zapped or a bad cap causing problems whenever a transient spike hits. I'd check the PS; if PS voltages check out good under load, IBT @ stock settings; if system still fails, RMA all four sticks, and when they come back IBT @ stock settings, and if it _still_ fails, blame the mobo.

 

[dextermat]

From the info you are giving us:

when your mobo died it might of dmg the cpu or hard drive or both.

if you could get blue screenview from nirsoft, we could get more info : file with problem and blue screen code.

have you check for bootkit/rootkit, its a long shot but probably not since you reinstalled windows (you did format the HD didin't ya ?)

good luck

 

[ringzero]

Have you tried running Windows off of a different/new hard drive?

 

[signothorn]

Which keyboard do you have? Logitech by chance?

 

[geofelt]

Because your problem started with the addition of extra ram, it is the most likely source of your problem.
Here are some thoughts:

1) Is there a bios update to the motherboard. It often fixes some strange memory issues like these.

2) Ram vendors will not guarantee the functioning of mixed kits. The reason is that the same part number may actually be constructed of different spec parts internally.
Most of the time with Intel cpu's this does not seem to be a problem. Ram seems to be more tightly tied to amd cpu's.
Memtest86+ should have been a good test, so perhaps ram is not the issue.
Since Corsair will replace the kit, do so. Verify that the kit is supported on the motherboard QVL list, or by the Corsair configurator.

3) Is your cpu overclocked? If so, back it off.

4) Do you have good power for the PC? Momentary input fluctuations could be the cause. It might not be a bad idea to use a small ups to condition the power anyway.

5) Depending on the model, Rosewill may be considered an iffy brand. If there is a defect in the psu design, I might expect it to show up with a identical model.
Can you try running with a known quality brand like Seasonic?

6) Have all of the motherboard chipset drivers been updated with the latest drivers from the chipset web site?
Ditto for the graphics drivers.
What comes with windows 7 may be a bit out of date.

7) Could there be a heat issue? Take the side covers off of the case, and direct a house fan at the innards to insure good case cooling.

8) Have you updated the game software with the latest patches?

 

[JDFan]

You say a friend has the same type setup and let you swap PSU's -- why not try swapping RAM with them also and see if after swapping the RAM his system becomes unstable and yours runs stable -- if so then you know it's the RAM -- If his still eruns properly then it's not the RAM !

 

[gamerk316]

People, simplify here: The issue started with RAM, so lets rule that out first.

Run memtest/Prime95 on each stick of RAM individually for a while. If no errors are found, see if the system is stable with that stick. Rinse and repeat.

Also, might want to run sfc /scannow in case a system level driver is somehow corrupt.

 

[mariomanz28]

Ok I'm not sure if I missed something but as I have already stated I have already replaced the Motherboard, CPU, and Hard drive, fresh install of Windows 7 x64. This problem started before I replaced anything.

@nbelote & @JDFan: Unfortunately his system runs DDR3 mine is DDR2 so that won't work.

@sbogus: Memory Controller is on the Processor, which both that and the motherboard have been replaced. PSU I used my friends PSU which is still in my system. He's had no troubles running mine. Also IBT? Haven't heard of that I will try running it.

@ringzero: As I said in my 1st post, I just installed a brand new HD yesterday, those crash dumps I uploaded to my site are after installing Win7 on the new HD.

@geofelt:

1) I have the latest BIOS from ASRock.

2) The RAM is on the QVL, down to the pair package. Also AMD's MC is on the processor itself, not an Intel guy myself but I believe only the latest generation Core ix processors have the MC on the CPU now, used to be on the motherboard.

3) No overclocking.

4) Well I've been using the PC here in this room for the last 6 years, more than 1 PC actually, even my friends system with higher end GPU running here didn't have a problem.

5) If there was a defect in the design I would think it would show up on my friends system before mine: Phenom II X4 955 BE, 12GB Corsair XMS3 DDR3 1333 (2x 2GB and 2x 4GB) Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatality Pro, and the power hungry ASUS GTX 580 that requires 2x 8pin PCI-E connectors. If that video card itself doesn't trigger some defect in the PSU (he's currently using mine) then it never will. 375w max power draw. My lil ol 460 at max only draws 225w.

6) Actually if I get the chipset drivers from AMD or ASRock (AMD 770 chipset) it only installs USB drivers so I think the ones in Windows 7 are the latest for this chipset.

7) Don't think so on the heat. Max temp on CPU while gaming or other intensive things is 52C. GPU gets up to about 63C and motherboard only about 31C while under load. Again the BSODs can happen any time doing anything (even while idle), not just under load. Running Prime95 last night for 30 mins didn't even cause a BSOD. The RAM is meant for OC'ing which I don't do and has massive heatsinks and whatnot so don't think it's a heat issue there. I've even ran the system with only 1 pair in the last 2 slots away from the CPU and didn't affect it. Also I have 5 case fans aside from the GPU, CPU, and PSU fans. Plenty of airflow all around.

8) The game software? Not sure what you mean?

@gamerk316: If I didn't get any errors with all 4 sticks either in MemTest or Prime95, would I really get them by themselves? Granted at this point it's worth the shot so I will try it but will have to be this weekend as I won't have time to do that today.

 

[geofelt]

re: 8) Sometimes games need patches to fix BSOD issues. If your problem happens with one game, a needed patch is a possibility.
But, since you might get the problem at idle, that is not likely.

At his point, it would not seem to be a ram issue.
With all of the parts already replaced, it is doubtful that they were bad, or had a similar defect.

What have you not replaced? The gpu perhaps?

Is it possible that some other environmental issue is at play?
Global warming perhaps? -----joke-------

Take the parts out of the case and try to breadboard with just the minimum components. No sound card or sound, , no dvd, one stick of ram, only the bood drive.

 

[mariomanz28]

re: 8) Sometimes games need patches to fix BSOD issues. If your problem happens with one game, a needed patch is a possibility.
But, since you might get the problem at idle, that is not likely.

At his point, it would not seem to be a ram issue.
With all of the parts already replaced, it is doubtful that they were bad, or had a similar defect.

What have you not replaced? The gpu perhaps?

Is it possible that some other environmental issue is at play?
Global warming perhaps? -----joke-------

Take the parts out of the case and try to breadboard with just the minimum components. No sound card or sound, , no dvd, one stick of ram, only the bood drive.

Oh yeah any games I play are up to date but it happens outside of games as well, videos, surfing, etc. I have replaced the video card actually, when these problems started I was on a GTX260. After replacing the board I switched to a GTX460. The only thing I haven't replaced is the DVD drive, the heatsink on the CPU which is from the Phenom I x4 (did research found out the AM2+ stock hsf > than AM3, the ones that normally come with my processor, since I bought current one OEM w/o HSF I used the old one), and the sound card which I have tested by pulling it out and using onboard sound. Will probably make it a weekend of testing the RAM again it seems. That's what gets me the BSODs all point to a memory error yet I physically can't get any errors to happen on the RAM during testing. I will keep checking back but unless things change Saturday I won't be able to mess with any of this till Sunday.

 

[geekapproved]

a lot of people recommended 2.0-2.1 for 4 DDR2 sticks

Your confusing me. You go by what the sticker says, not by what some "people" recommend. That makes absolutely no sense what you said right there. If it's 2.2v ram, you run it at 2.2v, if it's 1.8v ram, you run it at 1.8v. Period.

I can tell you right now with DDR2 if you have 2.1v ram and it's running at 1.8v, you'll get bsod's and other issues. Same goes for if you have 2.2v memory and your running it at 2.0v.

It makes no sense to me that your motherboard won't let you go below 2.0v, because every single DDR2 Intel motherboard I've ever used defaulted to 1.8v, and that's why a lot of people had issues with 2.0-2.2v ram.

Go with what the sticker says.

 

[signothorn]

If you have a logitech gaming keyboard, disable windows sideshow driver in device manager, I have a g510 and it caused bsod's and video driver failures. Windows sideshow was also an error mentioned in even viewer.

 

[jitpublisher]

After all this, here is what I would have done a long time ago before I spent 1 red cent on anything else.
I would have bought 2-4gig sticks of memory and tossed all the rest into the recycle bin.

 

[lafontma]

One thing you didnt replace.... or dont mention... SATA cable.. happened to me once but must admit it was a 68pin SCSI cable but it took me weeks to find "memory" BSOD... Seems it was reading corrupted data

Might be a long shot but worth trying

 

[geekapproved]

After all this, here is what I would have done a long time ago before I spent 1 red cent on anything else.
I would have bought 2-4gig sticks of memory and tossed all the rest into the recycle bin.

I agree.

 

[mariomanz28]

After all this, here is what I would have done a long time ago before I spent 1 red cent on anything else.
I would have bought 2-4gig sticks of memory and tossed all the rest into the recycle bin.

Well this is a case of hindsight is 20/20. My original motherboard (and current) could support a total of 16GB DDR2 1066, 4 slots. I purchased the 2x2GB Corsair XMS2XHS DDR2 800 kit, thinking (after already spending $1000 on the original computer 4 years ago) I could get another 4 later, at the time it was $140 for the kit. Fast forward to December of 2011 and deciding that I could just keep my current setup swap out the Phenom 9950 for an AM3 processor (actually wanted an 1100T but was no where to be found) and buy another 4GB kit. Simple upgrade without changing the board seeing as how I directly compared a 955 BE with DDR3 1333 Corsair XMS3 mine was only 800-1000MB/s slower memory speed wise I could live with that for a while.

Anyway I bought the 2nd 4GB kit, same one, they are still $70 for a pair. The thing is also they didn't make it in 4GB sticks and didn't sell an 8GB kit. So if I had known this was going to start the avalanche I would have just bought a DDR3 board and 8GB of memory for $40 and the processor. I considered an 8GB kit before getting the current kit but they were pretty expensive for a good name kit for DDR2. DDR2 is fairly high right now while DDR3 is dirt cheap.

@geekapproved: The original memory kit that I purchased brand new ran at 2.0V even though it says 1.8 on the label. The original motherboard did NOT have a way of changing it. Speaking of you mentioned intel based boards, this is an AMD system, processor and chipset. The original board had no way of changing the DRAM voltage but had a sensor so I could see what it was at. The new ASRock board doesn't have a sensor but has an adjustment in BIOS and that was one of the 1st things I tried when it started BSOD'ing again with the new board. I tried everything from 1.8 to 2.2 and anything but on 2.0 or 2.1 makes the system considerably more unstable. It never gave me a problem with the old board setup until I introduced the 2 new sticks. Even then it was about 2-3 weeks into running all 8GB did the BSOD's start occurring. If I had a way to see what it was running on this board I would love to but I'm pretty sure its at 2.0. I think Corsair overvolt theirs over DDR standards. My friend running XMS3 DDR3 his sits at 1.8V while the standard for DDR3 is 1.6 or 1.65. I've always left it alone just because mine is the same way.

@Signothorn: I have just a standard no brand name PS/2 KB.

@lafontma: Will give that a shot when I pull out everything from the case.