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can't delete

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April 23, 2004 11:37:22 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

I have a program on my Zire 71 which I can not delete ( I get told that its
either in use, or in ram or ? ( I forget ). How can I get rid of it ? Its a
prog called keyboard.

cheers

gra

More about : delete

April 23, 2004 11:37:23 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 19:37:22 +1000, Graham wrote:

> How can I get rid of it ?

Did you ever try using an external keyboard with the Zire? I had
one on a different Palm PDA that installed a keyboard 'driver'
program. It was designed to be active by default, and the only way
to get it to go away was to run the program and remove a checkmark
in the 'enable' box. Whether or not this is the case, if a program
is interacting in any way with your keyboard, it doesn't necessarily
have to be called 'keyboard'. Examine all visible programs the
you're not 100% familiar with, if you notice any.
April 24, 2004 4:07:54 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

"BillB" <rainbose@earthlink.newt> wrote in message
news:j9ji80dpi92jmss6v11jle7c906rijb8lh@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 19:37:22 +1000, Graham wrote:
>
> > How can I get rid of it ?
>
> Did you ever try using an external keyboard with the Zire? I had
> one on a different Palm PDA that installed a keyboard 'driver'
> program. It was designed to be active by default, and the only way
> to get it to go away was to run the program and remove a checkmark
> in the 'enable' box. Whether or not this is the case, if a program
> is interacting in any way with your keyboard, it doesn't necessarily
> have to be called 'keyboard'. Examine all visible programs the
> you're not 100% familiar with, if you notice any.

the Keyboard prog I have installed at the moment is of no use to me , as I
dont have an External KB that fits the Zire..but I do now have a IR Keyboard
but I can not install the driver as the old keyboard prog doesn't alllow
it..

gra

>
Related resources
April 24, 2004 4:07:55 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 12:07:54 +1000, Graham wrote:

> but I do now have a IR Keyboard but I can not install the driver
> as the old keyboard prog doesn't alllow

There has to be some way to remove the old driver. Is it visible?
That is, some drivers are hidden, others have visible icons (so they
can be executed), others have secondary programs used to
enable/disable features, etc. If you don't know the name of the
driver (or any additional files), do you have the original file(s)
used to install the old keyboard driver? If you have it on a CD,
for example, install it again, but before hotsynching the Zire,
examine the files placed in your Palm\username\install folder. This
will show you all of the files that were transferred to the Zire.
Then delete them from the PC's install folder and see if that gives
you enough information to delete them from the Zire.

If not, as a last resort you could do a hard reset to wipe
everything from the Zire, and do a hotsynch to restore files to the
Zire. If you go this route, make sure you do a hotsynch before the
hard reset to get all of your most recent data saved on the PC.
Then (from the above info.) make sure the old keyboard file(s) are
deleted from the PC's Palm/username/backup folder, and that the
hotsynch conduits (at least for the next hotsynch) are set so that
"Desktop overwrites handheld" where appropriate. Unless it would be
very inconvenient, it might even be better to rename the backup
folder. You'd then have to reinstall some programs afterwards (if
any) but would still have your default data (memo, todos, address
book, calendar, etc.) restored to the Zire.
Anonymous
April 24, 2004 4:07:56 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Why don't you try to do a warm reset? it seems that your situation is
exactly the one that might require a wamr reset. Warm reset resets your
palm, but does not inicialize any of your programs, so they can't be in
use, and thus they can be easely deleted.

http://www.tankerbob.com/palm/resets.htm
April 24, 2004 4:07:57 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 11:40:21 +0200, Antoni Ten Monrós wrote:

> Why don't you try to do a warm reset? it seems that your situation is
> exactly the one that might require a wamr reset.

I'm not having the problem with the recalcitrant keyboard driver.
While it's worth trying, a warm reset is unlikely to help since
drivers often don't behave like ordinary programs. I had a keyboard
driver that would interfere with some other programs if enabled, so
I would disable it and all was fine. Until the next reset, that is,
at which time the keyboard driver automatically re-enabled itself.
Anonymous
April 24, 2004 6:57:07 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

BillB wrote:
> On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 11:40:21 +0200, Antoni Ten Monrós wrote:
>
>
>>Why don't you try to do a warm reset? it seems that your situation is
>>exactly the one that might require a wamr reset.
>
>
> I'm not having the problem with the recalcitrant keyboard driver.
> While it's worth trying, a warm reset is unlikely to help since
> drivers often don't behave like ordinary programs. I had a keyboard
> driver that would interfere with some other programs if enabled, so
> I would disable it and all was fine. Until the next reset, that is,
> at which time the keyboard driver automatically re-enabled itself.

Well, the rigianl poster said that he could not delete the keyboard
driver because the palm said it was in use. A warm reset ought to stop
it so it can be safely deleted...
April 24, 2004 6:57:08 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 14:57:07 +0200, Antoni Ten Monrós wrote:

> A warm reset ought to stop
> it so it can be safely deleted...

If you were the one with the keyboard driver problem it would be
useful to *understand* what I wrote. Since you aren't . . . well,
it still might be useful. If you don't think so, that's fine too.
Anonymous
April 24, 2004 6:57:09 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

BillB <rainbose@earthlink.newt> wrote:
> On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 14:57:07 +0200, Antoni Ten Monrós wrote:
>
>> A warm reset ought to stop
>> it so it can be safely deleted...
>
> If you were the one with the keyboard driver problem it would be
> useful to *understand* what I wrote. Since you aren't . . . well,
> it still might be useful. If you don't think so, that's fine too.

Bill, when being rude, at least make sure you're being *RIGHT*

I think he *understands* perfectly. Including *understanding* what startup
hooks are and what a *warm* reset is, and how it prevents startup hooks from
running.
There's no difference in PalmOS between a driver and any other program that
uses startup hooks. If you *warm* reset, they won't be called, and there's
no "interfering" with other programs like you think.

Spelled out in baby talk:

1: *Warm* reset. Do *not* confuse a warm reset with a normal reset or a
hard reset.
2: Locate and delete the "Keyboard" driver app.
3: Do a normal reset.

--
*Art
April 24, 2004 9:35:15 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 11:29:36 -0400, Arthur Hagen wrote:

> Bill, when being rude, at least make sure you're being *RIGHT*
>
> I think he *understands* perfectly. Including *understanding* what startup
> hooks are and what a *warm* reset is, and how it prevents startup hooks from
> running.

Sorry, but I definitely was right, and I'm surprised that you
didn't get it. I was *trying* not to be rude, assuming (based on
what Antoni Ten Monrós wrote) that English wasn't his primary
language and he may easily, understandably missed my point. Note
also that he thought that I had the keyboard driver problem, and not
Graham". He then realized this ("Well, the rigianl poster said that
he could not delete the keyboard driver because the palm said it was
in use. A warm reset ought to stop it so it can be safely
deleted...") but somehow missed my description of how at least one
keyboard driver (mine) isn't fazed by resets. I even said that his
suggestion was "worth trying", but he came back *again* with the
same argument that a warm reset should stop the driver.

Yes, I'm familiar with *warm* resets, and how they prevent startup
hooks from running. But it's not *always* true. Programs
(especially high security programs that try to prevent access to
people lacking passwords) can survive warm resets. My own keyboard
driver (that I referenced) also does this. Note: the driver is a
not a hack, whether that's relevant or not, and as I said, even
after disabling it, immediately after a warm reset, it automatically
re-enables itself. Whether it's the same keyboard driver that
"Graham" uses (I thought it unlikely), I thought it might help if he
examined his own Palm device to see if his driver had a similar
"disable" option which might then allow it to be deleted.

I have no way to determine Antoni's Palm expertise or lack
thereof. So far, I haven't seen any indication that he understood
what I tried to say. If I'm mistaken about keyboard drivers, so be
it, but try to point out where and why. I have no objection to
learning. I wasn't trying to be rude to Antoni, just trying to get
him to more closely examine my suggestions, which he gave no
indication of having read. Perhaps you thought that by my saying
"Since you aren't . . ." it meant he wasn't smart enought to
understand. That's not what I meant at all. As I indicated above,
if English wasn't his primary language, he could easily have missed
my point, and I tried to get him to go back for a closer read
("well, it still might be useful"), which I wouldn't have said if I
thought him incapable of doing so. We still don't know if a warm
reset will help Graham to remove his driver. If it does, great! If
not, he has some other things to try.
Anonymous
April 24, 2004 11:46:29 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

BillB wrote:
> On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 11:29:36 -0400, Arthur Hagen wrote:
>
> Sorry, but I definitely was right, and I'm surprised that you
> didn't get it. I was *trying* not to be rude, assuming (based on
> what Antoni Ten Monrós wrote) that English wasn't his primary
> language and he may easily, understandably missed my point. Note
> also that he thought that I had the keyboard driver problem, and not
> Graham". He then realized this ("Well, the rigianl poster said that
> he could not delete the keyboard driver because the palm said it was
> in use. A warm reset ought to stop it so it can be safely
> deleted...") but somehow missed my description of how at least one
> keyboard driver (mine) isn't fazed by resets. I even said that his
> suggestion was "worth trying", but he came back *again* with the
> same argument that a warm reset should stop the driver.

Sorry, you're right, I did not get what you were saying. I stand corrected.

> Yes, I'm familiar with *warm* resets, and how they prevent startup
> hooks from running. But it's not *always* true. Programs
> (especially high security programs that try to prevent access to
> people lacking passwords) can survive warm resets. My own keyboard
> driver (that I referenced) also does this. Note: the driver is a
> not a hack, whether that's relevant or not, and as I said, even
> after disabling it, immediately after a warm reset, it automatically
> re-enables itself. Whether it's the same keyboard driver that
> "Graham" uses (I thought it unlikely), I thought it might help if he
> examined his own Palm device to see if his driver had a similar
> "disable" option which might then allow it to be deleted.

I understand the need of making the program warm reset resistant for
security programs, but for a keyboard driver? I wonder if it was
accidental, or intentional...

> I have no way to determine Antoni's Palm expertise or lack
> thereof. So far, I haven't seen any indication that he understood
> what I tried to say. If I'm mistaken about keyboard drivers, so be
> it, but try to point out where and why. I have no objection to
> learning. I wasn't trying to be rude to Antoni, just trying to get
> him to more closely examine my suggestions, which he gave no
> indication of having read. Perhaps you thought that by my saying
> "Since you aren't . . ." it meant he wasn't smart enought to
> understand. That's not what I meant at all. As I indicated above,
> if English wasn't his primary language, he could easily have missed
> my point, and I tried to get him to go back for a closer read
> ("well, it still might be useful"), which I wouldn't have said if I
> thought him incapable of doing so. We still don't know if a warm
> reset will help Graham to remove his driver. If it does, great! If
> not, he has some other things to try.

English is my 3rd language... I try my best, but I'm sure that it makes
me sound like an idiot quite often...

As for palm esperience, well, I've got some, but I'm not a Pro. It's
mostly user level experience, though I'm trying to learn how to code for
palm (I already know c, but I'm too busy right now to give it more than
a glancing look...).

As for Graham's problem, if the warm reset does not do the trick, well,
either he finds a way to disable the driver from an asociated app (but I
would assume that's dificult to imposible, as it would have been the 1st
thing I would try before asking for help), or he should hard reset and
selectively restore it...
April 24, 2004 11:46:30 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 19:46:29 +0200, Antoni Ten Monrós wrote:

> I understand the need of making the program warm reset resistant for
> security programs, but for a keyboard driver? I wonder if it was
> accidental, or intentional...

Arguments could be made for keyboard drivers being resistant to
warm resets, but in the rush to get products shipped, programs can
easily get out the door in less than ideal state. There are times
(as in a recent discussion about misbehaving hacks) when Palm
devices frequently lock up, requiring a reset. This happened to me
about 2 or 3 years ago, and each reset was made more odious by
having to disable and then reenable certain hacks (one of them
prevented another hack from operating properly if this wasn't done)
and a battery voltage hack always reverted from NiMH to Alkaline
after warm resets, so it had to be changed after each reset. So
ideally, a keyboard driver would not only have a disable/enable
option, but another one to allow the user to specify whether it
should automatically reenable itself after warm resets, remain
disabled, or prompt the user.


> English is my 3rd language... I try my best, but I'm sure that it makes
> me sound like an idiot quite often...

You didn't sound like an idiot to me. Only an idiot would think
that you were. :)  I'm *very slowly* trying to learn a second
language, and hope to some day be as fluent in it as you are in
English.


> As for Graham's problem, if the warm reset does not do the trick, well,
> either he finds a way to disable the driver from an asociated app (but I
> would assume that's dificult to imposible, as it would have been the 1st
> thing I would try before asking for help), or he should hard reset and
> selectively restore it...

You might be right, but if Graham isn't as familiar with Palms and
computers as you are, he might not have tried finding an associated
app., or if he did, might not have found it. I have at least one
hack that doesn't change its options the standard way, but requires
a separate configuration program. What makes it difficult to use is
that its name doesn't resemble the name of the hack, so unless you
know its name beforehand, it's easy to be unaware of the existence
of the configuration program, even if you look for one.
Anonymous
April 25, 2004 2:00:13 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 14:03:34 GMT, BillB <rainbose@earthlink.newt> was
understood to have stated the following:

>
> If you were the one with the keyboard driver problem it would be
>useful to *understand* what I wrote. Since you aren't . . . well,
>it still might be useful. If you don't think so, that's fine too.

I've had said keyboard issue. A warm reset cured the problem.
April 25, 2004 6:57:20 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 22:00:13 -0400, David W. Poole, Jr. wrote:

> I've had said keyboard issue. A warm reset cured the problem.

Perhaps Graham was as fortunate as you, and is happily plinking
away on his new IR keyboard as we speak. If not, finding a solution
shouldn't be difficult, assuming he returns . . .
Anonymous
April 25, 2004 6:57:21 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 02:57:20 GMT, BillB <rainbose@earthlink.newt> was
understood to have stated the following:

>On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 22:00:13 -0400, David W. Poole, Jr. wrote:
>
>> I've had said keyboard issue. A warm reset cured the problem.
>
> Perhaps Graham was as fortunate as you, and is happily plinking
>away on his new IR keyboard as we speak. If not, finding a solution
>shouldn't be difficult, assuming he returns . . .

I'd be *very* interested in knowing what keyboard driver he has
installed. I've had a three or four drivers in mine (at one time) and
as of yet had any problem with the keyboard drivers, other than a soft
reset was required to deactivate Keyz once it was activated.
April 27, 2004 11:28:17 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

"Antoni Ten Monrós" <kuroshima@gempukku.com> wrote in message
news:c6dcm0$avgqs$1@ID-200016.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Why don't you try to do a warm reset? it seems that your situation is
> exactly the one that might require a wamr reset. Warm reset resets your
> palm, but does not inicialize any of your programs, so they can't be in
> use, and thus they can be easely deleted.
>
> http://www.tankerbob.com/palm/resets.htm

tried warm reset..it didn't work.

gra
April 27, 2004 11:36:45 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

"David W. Poole, Jr." <SpammersAreLosers.20.dwpj65@spamgourmet.com> wrote in
message news:1icm80565bvqd7lt03rcsqspef8cvonsud@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 02:57:20 GMT, BillB <rainbose@earthlink.newt> was
> understood to have stated the following:
>
> >On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 22:00:13 -0400, David W. Poole, Jr. wrote:
> >
> >> I've had said keyboard issue. A warm reset cured the problem.
> >
> > Perhaps Graham was as fortunate as you, and is happily plinking
> >away on his new IR keyboard as we speak. If not, finding a solution
> >shouldn't be difficult, assuming he returns . . .
>
> I'd be *very* interested in knowing what keyboard driver he has
> installed. I've had a three or four drivers in mine (at one time) and
> as of yet had any problem with the keyboard drivers, other than a soft
> reset was required to deactivate Keyz once it was activated.

not a great deal I can tell you about the KB driver..using FileZ I got the
following info on this darn keyboard headache..The name of the appl appears
to be Keyboard ( ?) its Creator was KO01 version 112. When I went to delet
it through FileZ, I get " An error prevented the file from being deleted
539"I also didn't know there was a diff between warm and normal reset..so
will find out how to do one and then try deleting.

cheers

gra

>
>
!