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HDTV to DVD

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Anonymous
June 1, 2005 11:22:19 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

I'm a happy new owner of an HDTV. I have a DVR provided by my cable
company, as I was told by the store clerk where I got the TV that TIVO
would not record HD. The cable company provides the box free of charge
and their monthly fee for the TIVO type service is less than TIVO. Be
that as it may, I can connect a VCR to the box, but it obviously
doesn't record the HD signal. I was looking into a DVD recorder but
was also told that at this point in time, DVD's won't handle an HD
signal either. I'm just wondering what technology the world is waiting
for so a show recorded in high definition on a DVR can be archived in
HD on a DVD? Thanks for any insight.

More about : hdtv dvd

Anonymous
June 2, 2005 4:58:53 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

rfdjr1@optonline.net wrote:
> I'm a happy new owner of an HDTV. I have a DVR provided by my cable
> company, as I was told by the store clerk where I got the TV that TIVO
> would not record HD. The cable company provides the box free of charge
> and their monthly fee for the TIVO type service is less than TIVO. Be
> that as it may, I can connect a VCR to the box, but it obviously
> doesn't record the HD signal. I was looking into a DVD recorder but
> was also told that at this point in time, DVD's won't handle an HD
> signal either. I'm just wondering what technology the world is waiting
> for so a show recorded in high definition on a DVR can be archived in
> HD on a DVD? Thanks for any insight.

There's not nearly enough room on a DVD for a HD program, unless you use
something like Windows Media 9 encoding. There are HD DTivos on the
market that record the HD digital bitstream from DirecTV. This is a
simple bit copy process. The issue with real-time HD encoding is that it
requires sophisticated, dedicated encoding hardware because the
increased HD bandwidth. Tivo is said to have an OTA HD Tivo in the
works, but no release date is available.

You can record your HD programs using the S-Video output with
surprisingly good DVD quality. All you need is a DVD recorder. You HD
box will downconvert the HD signal to NTSC that you can feed the DVD
recorder. Since you're starting with a HD feed, the output is very
clean.


--
David G.
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 8:55:21 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

rfdjr1@optonline.net writes:
>I'm a happy new owner of an HDTV. I have a DVR provided by my cable
>company, as I was told by the store clerk where I got the TV that TIVO
>would not record HD.

Only the HD DirecTivo does so far. Cable-card TiVo should be out someyear..

>The cable company provides the box free of charge
>and their monthly fee for the TIVO type service is less than TIVO. Be
>that as it may, I can connect a VCR to the box, but it obviously
>doesn't record the HD signal. I was looking into a DVD recorder but
>was also told that at this point in time, DVD's won't handle an HD
>signal either.

True, best you get on DVD is 480p lines, until HD-DVD is out. The
player probably will be by the end of the year. Recorders won't be
until next year at best.

>I'm just wondering what technology the world is waiting
>for so a show recorded in high definition on a DVR can be archived in
>HD on a DVD? Thanks for any insight.

If your cable box has a firewire output (it should, something about
the FCC spec'ing that out, but only on newer ones), then a D-VHS VCR
will record HDTV. Tapes are about $11-$25 though for 4 hours of HDTV
on a 50GB tape.

Some people are experimenting with PCs recording HDTV over
firewire. Nothing that is a finished polished product though :( 
Elgato has an over-the-air (ie. ATSC) HDTV recorder box for Mac, but
you need a pretty beefy Mac to playback HDTV.

Companies are too frightened by the changing technologies and afraid
of the content providers sueing them for making perfect digital copies
to make a real solution come out. :( 
Related resources
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 9:11:22 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

On 2005-06-02, David G. <david_please_dont_email_me@i_hate_spam.com> wrote:
> something like Windows Media 9 encoding. There are HD DTivos on the
> market that record the HD digital bitstream from DirecTV. This is a
....
> increased HD bandwidth. Tivo is said to have an OTA HD Tivo in the
> works, but no release date is available.

The HD DTiVo already does OTA HD. Perhaps you meant "TiVo is said to have
a HD cable solution in the works."

Shawn

--
This is my .sig
June 2, 2005 4:45:47 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

* Mike Hunt wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
> On 2005-06-02, David G. <david_please_dont_email_me@i_hate_spam.com> wrote:
>> something like Windows Media 9 encoding. There are HD DTivos on the
>> market that record the HD digital bitstream from DirecTV. This is a
> ...
>> increased HD bandwidth. Tivo is said to have an OTA HD Tivo in the
>> works, but no release date is available.

> The HD DTiVo already does OTA HD.

But it requires a sub to DTV

> Perhaps you meant "TiVo is said to have
> a HD cable solution in the works."

I think he is refering to an SA Tivo with OTA HD.

--
David
Habit is habit, and not to be flung out of the window by any man, but coaxed
down-stairs a step at a time.
-- Mark Twain, "Pudd'nhead Wilson's Calendar
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 10:04:58 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Mike Hunt wrote:
> On 2005-06-02, David G. <david_please_dont_email_me@i_hate_spam.com>
> wrote:
>> something like Windows Media 9 encoding. There are HD DTivos on the
>> market that record the HD digital bitstream from DirecTV. This is a
> ...
>> increased HD bandwidth. Tivo is said to have an OTA HD Tivo in the
>> works, but no release date is available.
>
> The HD DTiVo already does OTA HD. Perhaps you meant "TiVo is said to
> have a HD cable solution in the works."
>
> Shawn

The HD DTivo records the compressed OTA signal, not an uncompressed one,
say coming from a component output. I'm assuming the SA HDTivo will have
the horsepower to re-encode a fully-decompressed HD stream, much like
the NTSC SA Tivos do. That way, you can feed it the signal from the
component outputs of your cable box.

--
David G.
June 3, 2005 3:23:15 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"David G." <david_please_dont_email_me@i_hate_spam.com> wrote in message
news:EbqdnVbX38MZHwLfRVn-sw@comcast.com...
> Mike Hunt wrote:
>> On 2005-06-02, David G. <david_please_dont_email_me@i_hate_spam.com>
>> wrote:
>>> something like Windows Media 9 encoding. There are HD DTivos on the
>>> market that record the HD digital bitstream from DirecTV. This is a
>> ...
>>> increased HD bandwidth. Tivo is said to have an OTA HD Tivo in the
>>> works, but no release date is available.
>>
>> The HD DTiVo already does OTA HD. Perhaps you meant "TiVo is said to
>> have a HD cable solution in the works."
>>
>> Shawn
>
> The HD DTivo records the compressed OTA signal, not an uncompressed one,
> say coming from a component output. I'm assuming the SA HDTivo will have
> the horsepower to re-encode a fully-decompressed HD stream, much like the
> NTSC SA Tivos do. That way, you can feed it the signal from the component
> outputs of your cable box.

I doubt it. Where would it get an uncompressed HD signal from other than an
HD STB? Just build it all together and not have to try and recompress an HD
signal. That's what the CableCard TiVo (should it ever see the light of
day) will do. Take the compressed HD signal form the cable (just like the
cable company HD STB does) and record it raw, uncompressing it on the fly at
play back time.
Anonymous
June 3, 2005 3:23:16 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Seth wrote:
> "David G." <david_please_dont_email_me@i_hate_spam.com> wrote in
> message news:EbqdnVbX38MZHwLfRVn-sw@comcast.com...
>> Mike Hunt wrote:
>>> On 2005-06-02, David G. <david_please_dont_email_me@i_hate_spam.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> something like Windows Media 9 encoding. There are HD DTivos on the
>>>> market that record the HD digital bitstream from DirecTV. This is a
>>> ...
>>>> increased HD bandwidth. Tivo is said to have an OTA HD Tivo in the
>>>> works, but no release date is available.
>>>
>>> The HD DTiVo already does OTA HD. Perhaps you meant "TiVo is said
>>> to have a HD cable solution in the works."
>>>
>>> Shawn
>>
>> The HD DTivo records the compressed OTA signal, not an uncompressed
>> one, say coming from a component output. I'm assuming the SA HDTivo
>> will have the horsepower to re-encode a fully-decompressed HD
>> stream, much like the NTSC SA Tivos do. That way, you can feed it
>> the signal from the component outputs of your cable box.
>
> I doubt it. Where would it get an uncompressed HD signal from other
> than an HD STB? Just build it all together and not have to try and
> recompress an HD signal. That's what the CableCard TiVo (should it
> ever see the light of day) will do. Take the compressed HD signal
> form the cable (just like the cable company HD STB does) and record
> it raw, uncompressing it on the fly at play back time.

It could get the uncompressed stream from the component output on the
cable STB. I realize that integrating a cablecard solution is ideal from
an encoding standpoint; essentially giving it DTivo bit recording
capabilities. I just assumed from the internet chatter that there was
going to be an MPEG2 encoder capable of encoding HD streams.

Given Comcasts recent announcment of moving to Tivo in 2006, I'm
guessing it may not be cable card solution at all. Just a new Comcast
box with built-in Tivo... at least for Comcast customers. New Comcast
Tivo boxes are expected end of '06.


--
David G.
June 3, 2005 3:23:17 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"David G." <david_please_dont_email_me@i_hate_spam.com> wrote in message
news:zdGdnW1_gKY6VALfRVn-gw@comcast.com...
> Seth wrote:
>> "David G." <david_please_dont_email_me@i_hate_spam.com> wrote in
>> message news:EbqdnVbX38MZHwLfRVn-sw@comcast.com...
>>> Mike Hunt wrote:
>>>> On 2005-06-02, David G. <david_please_dont_email_me@i_hate_spam.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> something like Windows Media 9 encoding. There are HD DTivos on the
>>>>> market that record the HD digital bitstream from DirecTV. This is a
>>>> ...
>>>>> increased HD bandwidth. Tivo is said to have an OTA HD Tivo in the
>>>>> works, but no release date is available.
>>>>
>>>> The HD DTiVo already does OTA HD. Perhaps you meant "TiVo is said
>>>> to have a HD cable solution in the works."
>>>>
>>>> Shawn
>>>
>>> The HD DTivo records the compressed OTA signal, not an uncompressed
>>> one, say coming from a component output. I'm assuming the SA HDTivo
>>> will have the horsepower to re-encode a fully-decompressed HD
>>> stream, much like the NTSC SA Tivos do. That way, you can feed it
>>> the signal from the component outputs of your cable box.
>>
>> I doubt it. Where would it get an uncompressed HD signal from other
>> than an HD STB? Just build it all together and not have to try and
>> recompress an HD signal. That's what the CableCard TiVo (should it
>> ever see the light of day) will do. Take the compressed HD signal
>> form the cable (just like the cable company HD STB does) and record
>> it raw, uncompressing it on the fly at play back time.
>
> It could get the uncompressed stream from the component output on the
> cable STB. I realize that integrating a cablecard solution is ideal from
> an encoding standpoint; essentially giving it DTivo bit recording
> capabilities. I just assumed from the internet chatter that there was
> going to be an MPEG2 encoder capable of encoding HD streams.

Yes it could get it from the cable box, but with cable companies being
forced to go to CableCard, what's the point?

And again, don't expect hardware capable of compressing it in the realm of
consumer level pricing anytime soon.

> Given Comcasts recent announcment of moving to Tivo in 2006, I'm guessing
> it may not be cable card solution at all. Just a new Comcast box with
> built-in Tivo... at least for Comcast customers. New Comcast Tivo boxes
> are expected end of '06.

Possibly, especially since Comcast is essentially subsidizing the hardware,
But I would expect a CableCard version as well so TiVo can capture the
non-Comcast crowd as cable companies start to support CableCard (as
mandated). For example, Adelphia cable in Boca Raton, FL supports CableCard
today.
Anonymous
June 3, 2005 3:24:58 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"David G." <david_please_dont_email_me@i_hate_spam.com> wrote in message news:EbqdnVbX38MZHwLfRVn-sw@comcast.com...
> Mike Hunt wrote:
> > On 2005-06-02, David G. <david_please_dont_email_me@i_hate_spam.com>
> > wrote:
> >> something like Windows Media 9 encoding. There are HD DTivos on the
> >> market that record the HD digital bitstream from DirecTV. This is a
> > ...
> >> increased HD bandwidth. Tivo is said to have an OTA HD Tivo in the
> >> works, but no release date is available.
> >
> > The HD DTiVo already does OTA HD. Perhaps you meant "TiVo is said to
> > have a HD cable solution in the works."
> >
> > Shawn
>
> The HD DTivo records the compressed OTA signal, not an uncompressed one,
> say coming from a component output. I'm assuming the SA HDTivo will have
> the horsepower to re-encode a fully-decompressed HD stream, much like
> the NTSC SA Tivos do. That way, you can feed it the signal from the
> component outputs of your cable box.
>

The SA TiVo which encodes video data for storing on disk cannot provide
picture quality equal to standard definition DirecTV DVRs.

Since a DirecTV HD DVR doesn't re-encode a fully-decompressed High Definition
OTA stream, there is little reason to believe a future standalone DVR will do that.
The HD video stream is already compressed and doesn't need to be re-encoded for
local storage.

My hunch is a High Definition SA TiVo will have an integrated cable box which
will preclude the need for a separate HD cable box. The existing compressed
HD signal will be available for storing on disk.
Anonymous
June 3, 2005 8:29:09 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Seth" <seth_lermanNOSPAM@hotmail.com> writes:
>"David G." <david_please_dont_email_me@i_hate_spam.com> wrote in message
>news:EbqdnVbX38MZHwLfRVn-sw@comcast.com...
>> Mike Hunt wrote:
>>> On 2005-06-02, David G. <david_please_dont_email_me@i_hate_spam.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> something like Windows Media 9 encoding. There are HD DTivos on the
>>>> market that record the HD digital bitstream from DirecTV. This is a
>>> ...
>>>> increased HD bandwidth. Tivo is said to have an OTA HD Tivo in the
>>>> works, but no release date is available.
>>>
>>> The HD DTiVo already does OTA HD. Perhaps you meant "TiVo is said to
>>> have a HD cable solution in the works."
>>>
>>> Shawn
>>
>> The HD DTivo records the compressed OTA signal, not an uncompressed one,
>> say coming from a component output. I'm assuming the SA HDTivo will have
>> the horsepower to re-encode a fully-decompressed HD stream, much like the
>> NTSC SA Tivos do. That way, you can feed it the signal from the component
>> outputs of your cable box.

>I doubt it. Where would it get an uncompressed HD signal from other than an
>HD STB? Just build it all together and not have to try and recompress an HD
>signal. That's what the CableCard TiVo (should it ever see the light of
>day) will do. Take the compressed HD signal form the cable (just like the
>cable company HD STB does) and record it raw, uncompressing it on the fly at
>play back time.


I doubt it too. Recording off the component video inputs would require
some video bandwidth throughput of around 60Mbps running at full rez.
And that has to then get MPEG compressed on the fly.

As opposed to recording an ATSC stream directly at 19.4Mbps, or an HD
QAM cable signal of around 12.5Mbps on average of already compressed
MPEG data.

I don't know what consumer level MPEG compressor systems can handle
offhand, but 60Mbps seems like a pretty fast stream to handle in
something thats gotta cost less than a few hundred (for that one
subsystem out of a total package).
Anonymous
June 5, 2005 8:42:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"David G." <david_please_dont_email_me@i_hate_spam.com> wrote in message
news:zdGdnW1_gKY6VALfRVn-gw@comcast.com...
>
> It could get the uncompressed stream from the component output on the cable
> STB. I realize that integrating a cablecard solution is ideal from an
> encoding standpoint; essentially giving it DTivo bit recording capabilities.
> I just assumed from the internet chatter that there was going to be an MPEG2
> encoder capable of encoding HD streams.

There are MPEG2 encoders capable of the job at the moment, but nobody is going
to pay $20K for a standalone HDtivo. Even with rapidly dropping prices, I
doubt anything will reach the appropriate price range for at least 5 years.
Until that time, the only option is to work with the compressed stream, and
the only way to reliably get the compressed stream from a cable provider is
via CableCard.

The other factor is the real-time compressors don't do nearly as good a job as
a pre-compressed broadcast source, or even the professional real-time
compressors that DirectTV and the like have. A standalone Tivo takes about
4.5 GB/hr to do decent quality video, whereas DirectTV routinely broadcasts at
< 2 GB/hr and the quality is (usually) quite good.

If we had a consumer level HD encoder today, we might need twice or more
storage to get acceptable quality when compared to recording the raw stream
from the broadcaster.

Ken
!