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The Only Problem with Tivo...

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Anonymous
June 3, 2005 1:46:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

....Is that the box is apparently useless if you don't pay.

I bought one for my father a couple of years ago. Being a stuborn old
man resistant to change, he refused to use it. He still uses VCRs.

Now that the cable company supplies an HD DVR for about ten bucks per
month I took the Tivo out. It's a shame that I can't program it to
record shows by date/time like a VCR. I would never buy another Tivo
product because of this built in uselessness of the hardware.

I'm surprised that nobody has totally reprogrammed this box to simply
record like a VCR without the Tivo service. I don't mean a Tivo
software hack. I mean wipe out the HD and put a totally new OS on it
that has a simple VCR like menu system. I would gladly pay $30 or $40
for such software.

More about : problem tivo

June 3, 2005 7:02:29 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

* Special Wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:

> ...Is that the box is apparently useless if you don't pay.

Apparently? This is perfectly clear on the box.

>
> I bought one for my father a couple of years ago. Being a stuborn
> old man resistant to change, he refused to use it. He still uses
> VCRs.
>
> Now that the cable company supplies an HD DVR for about ten bucks
> per month I took the Tivo out. It's a shame that I can't program
> it to record shows by date/time like a VCR. I would never buy
> another Tivo product because of this built in uselessness of the
> hardware.

Which you were well aware of when you bought the unit.

>
> I'm surprised that nobody has totally reprogrammed this box to
> simply record like a VCR without the Tivo service. I don't mean a
> Tivo software hack. I mean wipe out the HD and put a totally new
> OS on it that has a simple VCR like menu system. I would gladly
> pay $30 or $40 for such software.
>

So go out and buy one of the many other solutions available.

FWIW a SA series one Tivo will do what you want.


--
David
June 3, 2005 8:12:20 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Special <spec@spec.org> wrote in news:q2n0a1po2pa5rhqe923cmiqtr9b8851qqo@
4ax.com:

> ...Is that the box is apparently useless if you don't pay.

Who told you otherwise?

> month I took the Tivo out. It's a shame that I can't program it to
> record shows by date/time like a VCR. I would never buy another Tivo
> product because of this built in uselessness of the hardware.

Yeah...I can't program my cell phone to record shows by date/time like a
VCR either. However, not having been designed to do so, I don't worry
about it.

--
Minister of All Things Digital & Electronic, and Holder of Past Knowledge
stile99@email.com. Cabal# 24601-fnord | Sleep is irrelevant.
I speak for no one but myself, and |Caffeine will be assimilated.
no one else speaks for me. O- | Decaf is futile.
Related resources
Anonymous
June 3, 2005 8:12:21 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Howard" <stile99@email.com> wrote in message
news:Xns966A7202055Estile@129.250.170.89...
> Special <spec@spec.org> wrote in news:q2n0a1po2pa5rhqe923cmiqtr9b8851qqo@
> 4ax.com:
>
> > ...Is that the box is apparently useless if you don't pay.
>
> Who told you otherwise?
>
> > month I took the Tivo out. It's a shame that I can't program it to
> > record shows by date/time like a VCR. I would never buy another Tivo
> > product because of this built in uselessness of the hardware.
>
> Yeah...I can't program my cell phone to record shows by date/time like a
> VCR either. However, not having been designed to do so, I don't worry
> about it.

Moreover, you can't use your cell phone to make and receive calls if you
don't pay, either. So, my advice to the OP: Don't ever buy a cell phone;
the hardware is useless. Come to think of it, I don't recommend a landline
phone, either.

Ed
84HurstOlds@nowherenow.com
June 4, 2005 1:06:57 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Special" <spec@spec.org> wrote in message
news:q2n0a1po2pa5rhqe923cmiqtr9b8851qqo@4ax.com...
> ...Is that the box is apparently useless if you don't pay.
>
> I bought one for my father a couple of years ago. Being a stuborn old
> man resistant to change, he refused to use it. He still uses VCRs.
>
> Now that the cable company supplies an HD DVR for about ten bucks per
> month I took the Tivo out. It's a shame that I can't program it to
> record shows by date/time like a VCR. I would never buy another Tivo
> product because of this built in uselessness of the hardware.
>
> I'm surprised that nobody has totally reprogrammed this box to simply
> record like a VCR without the Tivo service. I don't mean a Tivo
> software hack. I mean wipe out the HD and put a totally new OS on it
> that has a simple VCR like menu system. I would gladly pay $30 or $40
> for such software.

So "The only problem with Tivo..." is really all the idiots who buy it and
don't have a clue about how their new purchase works.
Anonymous
June 4, 2005 1:38:49 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Dude, get off the cheap train and subscribe like the rest of us do...
Anonymous
June 4, 2005 1:39:36 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

He may as well not buy a car since you have to put gas in it too.

> Moreover, you can't use your cell phone to make and receive calls if you
> don't pay, either. So, my advice to the OP: Don't ever buy a cell phone;
> the hardware is useless. Come to think of it, I don't recommend a
> landline
> phone, either.
>
> Ed
> 84HurstOlds@nowherenow.com
>
>
June 4, 2005 3:59:20 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Thank YOU, for that amazing revelation! Let me share
a similar experience with you. I am PISSED at Ford Motor
Company. Last month I bought a new Ford Mustang.
Well, wouldn't you know it? Two days later it STOPPED
RUNNING!!!! TOTALLY!!! I called their towing service,
and it turns out I HAVE TO KEEP PUTTING STUFF
CALLED GASOLINE IN IT, EVERY FEW DAYS!!!
And this stuff costs MONEY!! LOTS AND LOTS OF
MONEY!!!

OMG WHAT A FRIKKIN' RIPOFF!!!!

I hereby knight thee, and dub thee "Sir Captain Obvious",
knight of the realm of stupidity and defender of morons.
Anonymous
June 4, 2005 10:04:57 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 09:46:40 -0400, Special <spec@spec.org> wrote:

> ...Is that the box is apparently useless if you don't pay.

The trouble with my grocery store is they won't give me food unless I pay.

--
"It is more uplifting to find the beauty, wonder, spirituality, and
reverence in what we can see, than to imagine they only exist in what we
can't see." - hawthorn@sover.net http://www.sover.net/~hawthorn/
Anonymous
June 4, 2005 10:04:58 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

My guess is the OP was equating the TiVo with a VCR......you can use a
VCR for free.Before a purchase (and sometimes afterwards apparently)
people do not realize the functionality involved with the operating
system.
But comparing TiVo and VCR's is like comparing apples to oranges.
June 5, 2005 2:14:13 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"SAC 441" <SAC441@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:28321-42A246A5-295@storefull-3255.bay.webtv.net...

> But comparing TiVo and VCR's is like comparing apples to oranges.
>

Apples and oranges are both fruits
....with seeds
....grown on trees
Apples and oranges can be either sweet or tangy
Apples and oranges can be made into a delicious juice

So what's the problem? : p
Anonymous
June 5, 2005 2:14:14 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Zardoz posited a reply to my posting which said:
----"Apples and oranges are both fruits
...with seeds
...grown on trees
Apples and oranges can be either sweet or tangy
Apples and oranges can be made into a delicious juice

So what's the problem? :p  "----


Reply:
No problem.....I was making an analogy comparing TiVo and VCR's as akin
to apples and oranges.
The analogy is apt in my opinion.They both do SIMILAR functions,yet are
unique and DISSIMILAR in their own ways.
Anonymous
June 5, 2005 8:52:19 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

SAC 441 wrote:

> My guess is the OP was equating the TiVo with a VCR......you can use a
> VCR for free.Before a purchase (and sometimes afterwards apparently)
> people do not realize the functionality involved with the operating
> system.
> But comparing TiVo and VCR's is like comparing apples to oranges.
>

You can use a VCR for free, but unless your purchase tapes (ala gas for
the car) it's pretty useless.

--Charlene


--
Artifical Flavor: A chemical concoction with the power to make grape
soda taste more like grapes than grapes do. -- Bayan, Rick; The Cynic's
Dictionary, 2002


email perronnelle at earthlink . net
June 5, 2005 6:58:25 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"SAC 441" <SAC441@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:23652-42A278CE-369@storefull-3252.bay.webtv.net...
> Zardoz posited a reply to my posting which said:
> ----"Apples and oranges are both fruits
> ..with seeds
> ..grown on trees
> Apples and oranges can be either sweet or tangy
> Apples and oranges can be made into a delicious juice
>
> So what's the problem? :p  "----
>
>
> Reply:
> No problem.....I was making an analogy comparing TiVo and VCR's as akin
> to apples and oranges.
> The analogy is apt in my opinion.They both do SIMILAR functions,yet are
> unique and DISSIMILAR in their own ways.
>

wooosh
June 5, 2005 9:00:52 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

On Sun, 05 Jun 2005 04:52:19 GMT, Charlene Charette wrote:

>SAC 441 wrote:
>
>> My guess is the OP was equating the TiVo with a VCR......you can use a
>> VCR for free.Before a purchase (and sometimes afterwards apparently)
>> people do not realize the functionality involved with the operating
>> system.
>> But comparing TiVo and VCR's is like comparing apples to oranges.
>>
>
>You can use a VCR for free, but unless your purchase tapes (ala gas for
>the car) it's pretty useless.
>
>--Charlene

The car analogies don't quite work the way you are using them.
Read it in this manner.
You buy a (car/TiVo). You take the (car/TiVo) home and it sits
exactly where you put it. You love your new (car/TiVo), it's
really great. However, the (car/TiVo) needs fuel, so you provide
it with (gasoline/electricity) when necessary. So far, both car
and TiVo use the same purchase model - You paid for the hardware,
you get to use the hardware.
Any additional agreements should not impinge upon this simple
transaction.

The OP's hardware, legally bought and owned, is not functional
unless he agrees to send payments to the seller for as long as he
wants to be able to use his own property. So a unit bought for
$199 with a monthly fee of $12.95 doubles the total cost in only
16 months.
Someone's going to say "You're full of bull, that extra fee is
for the service subscription!" We don't have the option of
refusing this 'extra' feature, it's required. And because it's
required, the word 'extra' doesn't apply.

How would it look if microsoft adopted this same procedure for
the windows update service? You buy a nice new computer. Your
computer contacts the windows update site every other day. If it
doesn't 'call in' for a month, Windows refuses to allow you to
type any email/add any other software. All you can do with that
computer is view things that were already there. You're stuck
paying microsoft a monthly fee for as long as you want full
access to the basic functionality of your computer.

Someone should create a hack that creates false guide data,
consisting completely of 30 min timeslots, all labeled 'To Be
Announced'. That would keep the box happy, and allow the users to
manually enter time/channel recordings and make use of the live
buffer. And for all that, TiVo corp. still gets paid for the
hardware. If sometime later on that person wants to make use of
the suggestions/wishlist functions, they can go ahead and buy the
service. It's their *option*, not a ransom payment for the fair
use of equipment they already own.
Anonymous
June 6, 2005 12:21:10 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

> How would it look if microsoft adopted this same procedure for
> the windows update service? You buy a nice new computer. Your
> computer contacts the windows update site every other day. If it
> doesn't 'call in' for a month, Windows refuses to allow you to
> type any email/add any other software. All you can do with that
> computer is view things that were already there. You're stuck
> paying microsoft a monthly fee for as long as you want full
> access to the basic functionality of your computer.

Lots of software providers use an annual fee model and many people use
them with no complaint. At the University where I work I can name
several packages that do this, SAS, SPSS, ArcGIS are just a few. If you
don't pay the fee, the software is still installed on your harddrive, it
just won't work.

There's nothing wrong with a recurring payment model per se. If you
think it's too expensive that's a different issue, but it doesn't make
the business model bad because of that.
>
> Someone should create a hack that creates false guide data,
> consisting completely of 30 min timeslots, all labeled 'To Be
> Announced'. That would keep the box happy, and allow the users to
> manually enter time/channel recordings and make use of the live
> buffer. And for all that, TiVo corp. still gets paid for the
> hardware. If sometime later on that person wants to make use of
> the suggestions/wishlist functions, they can go ahead and buy the
> service. It's their *option*, not a ransom payment for the fair
> use of equipment they already own.

I don't get this, there are lots of DVR's out there that will record by
time and channel that are not Tivo and don't require a subscription. If
that's what people want, then they should go buy one of those. Tivo,
for what it's worth, isn't interested in providing that type of
hardware. They desire to provide a value added service model *only*.
Why do you get to decide that decision is incorrect or wrong? They even
offer an upfront cost model (lifetime subscription), if you so desire,
it's not their fault you don't want to pay it.

As others have said, you own the hardware, not the software. If you
want to go develop a new OS for it that will record by time and channel,
then go for it, but don't expect Tivo to provide it for you. But don't
expect it to be easy, them's pretty proprietary chips in there (not the
CPU, but the decoder hardware).

OTOH, an interesting project might be to develop a Linux OS for an old
Tivo that would allow you to surf the web/read e-mail on it. You
wouldn't run into the problem of drivers for the decoders that way.

Randy S.
Anonymous
June 6, 2005 12:54:45 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

If you like the tivo hardware but dont want to pay the subscription fee,
you should check out the Tivo/DVD burner from Toshiba or Pioneer. It
will cost you about the same as a standard tivo box with lifetime
subscription, but if you wanted a DVD recorder anyway it is worth it.
With those you can use "Tivo Basic" for no monthy fee. More information
here
http://customersupport.tivo.com/knowbase/root/public/tv..." target="_blank">
http://customersupport.tivo.com/knowbase/root/public/tv...


--
shappyss, Posted this message at http://www.SatelliteGuys.US
June 6, 2005 2:39:50 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

<Jason> wrote in message news:sfk6a19t3jdf6reou6lis8fmiplhgasega@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 05 Jun 2005 04:52:19 GMT, Charlene Charette wrote:
>
>>SAC 441 wrote:
>>
>>> My guess is the OP was equating the TiVo with a VCR......you can use a
>>> VCR for free.Before a purchase (and sometimes afterwards apparently)
>>> people do not realize the functionality involved with the operating
>>> system.
>>> But comparing TiVo and VCR's is like comparing apples to oranges.
>>>
>>
>>You can use a VCR for free, but unless your purchase tapes (ala gas for
>>the car) it's pretty useless.
>>
>>--Charlene
>
> The car analogies don't quite work the way you are using them.
> Read it in this manner.
> You buy a (car/TiVo). You take the (car/TiVo) home and it sits
> exactly where you put it. You love your new (car/TiVo), it's
> really great. However, the (car/TiVo) needs fuel, so you provide
> it with (gasoline/electricity) when necessary. So far, both car
> and TiVo use the same purchase model - You paid for the hardware,
> you get to use the hardware.
> Any additional agreements should not impinge upon this simple
> transaction.
>
> The OP's hardware, legally bought and owned, is not functional
> unless he agrees to send payments to the seller for as long as he
> wants to be able to use his own property. So a unit bought for
> $199 with a monthly fee of $12.95 doubles the total cost in only
> 16 months.
> Someone's going to say "You're full of bull, that extra fee is
> for the service subscription!" We don't have the option of
> refusing this 'extra' feature, it's required. And because it's
> required, the word 'extra' doesn't apply.
>
> How would it look if microsoft adopted this same procedure for
> the windows update service? You buy a nice new computer. Your
> computer contacts the windows update site every other day. If it
> doesn't 'call in' for a month, Windows refuses to allow you to
> type any email/add any other software. All you can do with that
> computer is view things that were already there. You're stuck
> paying microsoft a monthly fee for as long as you want full
> access to the basic functionality of your computer.
>
> Someone should create a hack that creates false guide data,
> consisting completely of 30 min timeslots, all labeled 'To Be
> Announced'. That would keep the box happy, and allow the users to
> manually enter time/channel recordings and make use of the live
> buffer. And for all that, TiVo corp. still gets paid for the
> hardware. If sometime later on that person wants to make use of
> the suggestions/wishlist functions, they can go ahead and buy the
> service. It's their *option*, not a ransom payment for the fair
> use of equipment they already own.

You are free to use the hardware however you see fit without paying for a
subscription.

The software that is pre-loaded on the box is an entirely different matter.
Software is not sold. It is only licensed under the terms set forth my the
owner. Some software owners choose to let you use their software for a
single fee upfront. TiVo chooses to let you use their software 2 ways. 1
is a fee upfront (the lifetime service subscription) and the other is pay as
you go.

If one doesn't want to use the TiVo software under the terms of it's legal
owner (TiVo), then they are free to wipe the hard drive clean and install
different software.
Anonymous
June 6, 2005 2:39:51 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

> Thank you PollyAnna.
> And of course you claim every single penny that comes into your posession to
> the IRS, come to a complete stop at all stop signs and red lights, never
> ever go over the speed limit by even as much as 1 mph, never throw
> disallowed items in the trash, etc, etc.

Exactly what are you trying to say? That hacking a Tivo to steal
service is on par with those things? I'd think you'd find a lot of
disagreement with that statement here. Where do you draw the line? If
it's ok with you to sometimes not stop at redlights, is it ok to
sometimes murder people?

You're accusing someone of not having the same values as you apparently
do on at least one issue. I think you're going to have to learn to
accept that. It doesn't make the other person wrong.

Randy S.
June 6, 2005 2:39:52 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Randy S." <rswittNO@SPAMgmail.com> wrote in message
news:D 805t1$t96$1@spnode25.nerdc.ufl.edu...
>> Thank you PollyAnna.
>> And of course you claim every single penny that comes into your posession
>> to the IRS, come to a complete stop at all stop signs and red lights,
>> never ever go over the speed limit by even as much as 1 mph, never throw
>> disallowed items in the trash, etc, etc.
>
> Exactly what are you trying to say? That hacking a Tivo to steal service
> is on par with those things? I'd think you'd find a lot of disagreement
> with that statement here. Where do you draw the line? If it's ok with
> you to sometimes not stop at redlights, is it ok to sometimes murder
> people?

Typical attitude of someone who thinks he/she is entitled to more than
he/she actually is. Want something for free? Justify why you shouldn't pay
for it. Because I at least acknowledge how things are, there must be
something wrong with me.

> You're accusing someone of not having the same values as you apparently do
> on at least one issue. I think you're going to have to learn to accept
> that. It doesn't make the other person wrong.

Learn, yeah right. I think many of us can identify who will learn and who
won't.
June 6, 2005 3:13:07 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Randy S." <rswittNO@SPAMgmail.com> wrote in message
news:D 805t1$t96$1@spnode25.nerdc.ufl.edu...
>
> You're accusing someone of not having the same values as you apparently do
> on at least one issue.


No, not at all. I was pointing out that the odds are extremely in favor of
Seth being a God Damned hypocrit like every other "do gooder" that ever
lived.
I made statement about the author, I said absolutely nothing regarding the
ethics of or my opinion of the issue at hand.


> I think you're going to have to learn to accept that. It doesn't make
> the other person wrong.
>
> Randy S.

It doesn't make Seth right either. Since neither of us is right or wrong,
WTF are you pissing and moaning about?
June 6, 2005 3:28:17 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Seth" <seth_lermanNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3ONoe.2706$S62.929@fe11.lga...
>
> Typical attitude of someone who thinks he/she is entitled to more than
> he/she actually is. Want something for free? Justify why you shouldn't
> pay for it. Because I at least acknowledge how things are, there must be
> something wrong with me.
>

What's wrong with you (besides being a hypocrit) is that you are not
acknowledging how things are at all. Saying how things are means in reality
not in Utopia.

Saying that it's illegal for Mexican citizens to "sneak" across the border
to the US isn't saying how it is because we all know how it is - they cross
that border faster than anybody can count them. Saying that violating a
software license agreement is wrong (though not illegal -at least not at
this level) is "how it is" is asinine when you know the reality is
different. Software license agreements are being violated everyday by a
whole lot of people - That's "how it is."
Anonymous
June 6, 2005 11:53:29 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

> It doesn't make Seth right either. Since neither of us is right or wrong,
> WTF are you pissing and moaning about?

This thread is a waste. This has been hashed over dozens of times in
the past year. Posters fall into 2 groups:

- Tivo should work w/out subscription. I own everything since I paid
for it, so I should be able to do anything I want with it. Tivo is evil
because they require me to pay to make it work. I will find any reason
to justify my getting limited service for free because that's what I
want. I will ignore the fact that there are plenty of other DVR's that
do exactly what I want. I will whine that someone should make a free
version of the OS without making any effort towards doing so myself.

- Tivo has decided that they don't want to provide a limited service for
free option. Tivo is a business that can decide how they want to sell
their products, even if I wish it was different. I recognize that I
signed or explicitly agreed to a contract that clearly states that I do
not own the software on the Tivo (links can be provided), and may not
alter it in such a way as to avoid Tivo's payment structure. I
recognize that alternative DVR's exist and if I want one that has
limited service and/or doesn't require a monthly fee I can either a) buy
a lifetime subscription, b) buy a Tivo/DVD recorder combo that comes
with tivo Basic, or c) buy a non-Tivo DVR.

You've clearly stated which camp you're in. So have I (I in no way
claim to be unbiased). We may as well drop the thread, because I highly
doubt either of us will change camps.

Randy S.
Anonymous
June 6, 2005 2:44:52 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

<Jason> wrote in message news:sfk6a19t3jdf6reou6lis8fmiplhgasega@4ax.com...
>
> The OP's hardware, legally bought and owned, is not functional
> unless he agrees to send payments to the seller for as long as he
> wants to be able to use his own property. So a unit bought for
> $199 with a monthly fee of $12.95 doubles the total cost in only
> 16 months.

So pay the frigging lifetime and stop whining already, or write your own
goddamned software for it. And stop buying units for $199, while you're at
it. My last unit was free after rebates, and $99 deals are available
probably 360 days a year.

> Someone's going to say "You're full of bull, that extra fee is
> for the service subscription!" We don't have the option of
> refusing this 'extra' feature, it's required. And because it's
> required, the word 'extra' doesn't apply.
>
> How would it look if microsoft adopted this same procedure for
> the windows update service? You buy a nice new computer. Your

I bought a PC. I want to use it to read e-mail. But they made me pay for
Windows XP Home to get the e-mail application. I didn't even have the
option, it was bundled with the PC. It's not fair, I bought the hardware, I
should be able to use it anyway I please. Waah! Waah!

It's a dead horse, and it's been beat to death here many times.

Ed
84HurstOlds@nowherenow.com
June 6, 2005 8:57:21 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Randy S." <rswittNO@SPAMgmail.com> wrote in message
news:D 81dfo$g2o$1@spnode25.nerdc.ufl.edu...
>
>
> You've clearly stated which camp you're in. So have I (I in no way claim
> to be unbiased). We may as well drop the thread, because I highly doubt
> either of us will change camps.
>
> Randy S.

How does saying that Seth's a hypocrit clearly state what camp I'm in?
How can you breathe with your head so far up your ass?
June 6, 2005 9:14:14 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"SINNER" <arcade.master@googlemail.net> wrote in message
news:Xns966A66255FB0DLouiscypherhellorg@140.99.99.130...
>* Special Wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
>
>> ...Is that the box is apparently useless if you don't pay.
>
> Apparently? This is perfectly clear on the box.
>

Saying that a subscription is required is not the same as saying useless w/o
a subscription. My S1 Tivo boxes all said "subscription required." That
pretty much shits on your arguement.
June 6, 2005 9:15:26 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Howard" <stile99@email.com> wrote in message
news:Xns966A7202055Estile@129.250.170.89...
> Special <spec@spec.org> wrote in news:q2n0a1po2pa5rhqe923cmiqtr9b8851qqo@
> 4ax.com:
>
>> ...Is that the box is apparently useless if you don't pay.
>
> Who told you otherwise?
>

Maybe all the people withe S1 units that use 'em everyday w/o a subscription
even though the box said it was required.
June 6, 2005 9:18:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"machinehead" <zzz@zzz.com> wrote in message
news:62891$42a0a107$d1cc767a$31025@snip.allthenewsgroups.com...
>
> "Howard" <stile99@email.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns966A7202055Estile@129.250.170.89...
>> Special <spec@spec.org> wrote in news:q2n0a1po2pa5rhqe923cmiqtr9b8851qqo@
>> 4ax.com:
>>
>> > ...Is that the box is apparently useless if you don't pay.
>>
>> Who told you otherwise?
>>
>> > month I took the Tivo out. It's a shame that I can't program it to
>> > record shows by date/time like a VCR. I would never buy another Tivo
>> > product because of this built in uselessness of the hardware.
>>
>> Yeah...I can't program my cell phone to record shows by date/time like a
>> VCR either. However, not having been designed to do so, I don't worry
>> about it.
>
> Moreover, you can't use your cell phone to make and receive calls if you
> don't pay, either. So, my advice to the OP: Don't ever buy a cell phone;
> the hardware is useless. Come to think of it, I don't recommend a
> landline
> phone, either.
>
> Ed
> 84HurstOlds@nowherenow.com
>
>

Could you think of an analogy that's any worse?
My boot wasn't designed to fit up your ass, but I can make it fit in one
swift move.
June 6, 2005 9:45:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Zardoz" <dawiz@oz.com> wrote in message
news:1118032105.4f3600dc26228c59fb0581991d329b30@teranews...
>
> "Seth" <seth_lermanNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:3ONoe.2706$S62.929@fe11.lga...
>>
>> Typical attitude of someone who thinks he/she is entitled to more than
>> he/she actually is. Want something for free? Justify why you shouldn't
>> pay for it. Because I at least acknowledge how things are, there must be
>> something wrong with me.
>
> What's wrong with you (besides being a hypocrit) is that you are not
> acknowledging how things are at all. Saying how things are means in
> reality not in Utopia.
>
> Saying that it's illegal for Mexican citizens to "sneak" across the border
> to the US isn't saying how it is because we all know how it is - they
> cross that border faster than anybody can count them. Saying that
> violating a software license agreement is wrong (though not illegal -at
> least not at this level) is "how it is" is asinine when you know the
> reality is different. Software license agreements are being violated
> everyday by a whole lot of people - That's "how it is."

"Software license agreements are being violated everyday by a whole lot of
people ". So? That makes it legal? Yes, that is "PART" of how it is. The
other part of how it is is that it is still illegal. That makes me a
hypocrite?

The OP made a statement of opinion about how he/she thinks TiVo
hardware/software should work. I merely pointed out A) how it does work and
B) a possible alternative. How does that make me a hypocrite?
June 6, 2005 9:45:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Seth" <seth_lermanNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2u3pe.47763$NZ1.7227@fe09.lga...
>
> "Software license agreements are being violated everyday by a whole lot
> of people ". So? That makes it legal? Yes, that is "PART" of how it is.
> The other part of how it is is that it is still illegal. That makes me a
> hypocrite?
>

I didn't say anything makes it legal (other than the fact that it's never
been illegal - it's a civil matter). I just told you "how it is" vs. your
Utopian "how it should be" that you call "how it is"
It would really help if you read for context rather than reading to find
your next arguement.
Anonymous
June 6, 2005 11:51:48 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

>>Moreover, you can't use your cell phone to make and receive calls if you
>>don't pay, either. So, my advice to the OP: Don't ever buy a cell phone;
>>the hardware is useless. Come to think of it, I don't recommend a
>>landline
>>phone, either.
>>
>>Ed
>>84HurstOlds@nowherenow.com
>>
>>
>
>
> Could you think of an analogy that's any worse?
> My boot wasn't designed to fit up your ass, but I can make it fit in one
> swift move.

Instead of making yourself look like an ass (unless that's what you're
trying to do), why don't you explain why you think that's a poor
analogy? It seems like a pretty damn good one to me. Let's see:

- Both Tivo and the cell phone company require you to purchase
compatible hardware up front.

- Both often offer significant discounts on that hardware to encourage
customers to sign up for service.

- Both require monthly service fees to be functional *at* all.

Damn, even better than I thought at first.

Randy S.
June 7, 2005 2:55:49 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

* Zardoz wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:

> "SINNER" <arcade.master@googlemail.net> wrote in message
> news:Xns966A66255FB0DLouiscypherhellorg@140.99.99.130...
>>* Special Wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:

>>> ...Is that the box is apparently useless if you don't pay.

>> Apparently? This is perfectly clear on the box.

> Saying that a subscription is required is not the same as saying useless w/o
> a subscription.

The word REQUIRED means without it, this piece of hardware wont work,
you know, like Batteries Required.

> My S1 Tivo boxes all said "subscription required." That
> pretty much shits on your arguement.

Urm, I dont think so, thanks for playing.

--
David
> Where in the US is Linus?

He was in the "Promise Land".
-- David S. Miller <davem@caip.rutgers.edu>
June 7, 2005 2:55:50 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"SINNER" 99nesorjd@gates_of_hell.com wrote in message
news:8h0fn2x9ec.ln2@news.gates_of_hell.com...
>
> The word REQUIRED means without it, this piece of hardware wont work,
> you know, like Batteries Required.
>
>> My S1 Tivo boxes all said "subscription required." That
>> pretty much shits on your arguement.
>
> Urm, I dont think so, thanks for playing.
>

My S1 Tivos can be used as a DVR w/o a subscription. The boxes clearly
stated "subscription required." Your statement that a piece of hardware
won't work w/o a subscription because a box says "subscription required" is
can't always be true because I have hardware that does work w/o a sub.

Since it's not always true, people have a valid reason to question it.
June 7, 2005 7:18:54 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

On Mon, 06 Jun 2005 19:51:48 -0400, Randy S. wrote:

>- Both Tivo and the cell phone company require you to purchase
>compatible hardware up front.
>
>- Both require monthly service fees to be functional *at* all.
>
>Damn, even better than I thought at first.
>
>Randy S.

A cell is required by federal law to be able to make selected
outgoing calls when it is not attached to a specific service
plan. Current multiband phones have several methods of making
themselves heard.

Cell companies are required by federal law to accept selected
call signals whether or not the phone in question is a member of
that companies network. And because cell towers have capabilities
of receiving nearly all possible cell signals (ever heard of
'Roaming' minutes?) a question of compatible hardware is not
valid.

In some instances, the cell towers themselves are programmed to
give certain calls absolute highest priority when select calls
are trying to be connected, even so far as re-allocating
resources from other calls that are already in progress.

Find another analogy, this one's a poor fit. And try to dodge
that boot that's heading for your ass, it might be a better fit
than Zardoz thought at first.
Anonymous
June 7, 2005 8:31:59 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

> Find another analogy, this one's a poor fit. And try to dodge
> that boot that's heading for your ass, it might be a better fit
> than Zardoz thought at first.

Well, thank you for at least contributing some thought to the thread
rather than simply spouting insults.

I grant you that the cell phone analogy fails in the aspect that some
minimum service functionality for *emergency* communication only is
federally mandated. There really is no parallel to that aspect to the
Tivo DVR as it is not considered an essential service. That really
shouldn't be counted against Tivo, but I grant that it's a weakness of
the comparison. However, discounting that one aspect, it's still a
pretty good fit. Similar models that are not essential services may be
closer, and SINNER identified a few.

My main beef was that attacking the analogy for no stated reason is just
being obnoxious. OTOH, considered rebuttal is welcome.

Randy S.
Anonymous
June 7, 2005 8:51:43 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Zardoz" <dawiz@oz.com> wrote in message
news:1118096302.45486ad392c429071c67eab6f378c67f@teranews...
>
> Could you think of an analogy that's any worse?

I could think of a lot of worse ones, sure.

> My boot wasn't designed to fit up your ass, but I can make it fit in one
> swift move.

Ooh, an Internet tough guy. *Now* I'm impressed.

Ed
84HurstOlds@nowherenow.com
June 7, 2005 11:58:26 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

* Wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:

> On Mon, 06 Jun 2005 19:51:48 -0400, Randy S. wrote:
>
>>- Both Tivo and the cell phone company require you to purchase
>>compatible hardware up front.
>>
>>- Both require monthly service fees to be functional *at* all.
>>
>>Damn, even better than I thought at first.
>>
>
> A cell is required by federal law to be able to make selected
> outgoing calls when it is not attached to a specific service
> plan. Current multiband phones have several methods of making
> themselves heard.
>
> Cell companies are required by federal law to accept selected
> call signals whether or not the phone in question is a member of
> that companies network.

Not if you arent paying for ANY service on your phone they dont. You
think you can go pull an old cell phone out of the drawer, charge it,
turn it on and make a call to anyone other than 911 without paying
anyone? If it DOES work you will be asked for a credit card, so you
are STILL paying for service.

> And because cell towers have capabilities
> of receiving nearly all possible cell signals (ever heard of
> 'Roaming' minutes?) a question of compatible hardware is not
> valid.

I believe 911 is the ONLY requirement. If you are comparing that to
the limited service of a series 1 tivo without a sub you should seek
help.

>
> In some instances, the cell towers themselves are programmed to
> give certain calls absolute highest priority when select calls
> are trying to be connected, even so far as re-allocating
> resources from other calls that are already in progress.
>
> Find another analogy, this one's a poor fit. And try to dodge
> that boot that's heading for your ass, it might be a better fit
> than Zardoz thought at first.
>

XM Sat / Sirius Sat radio. If you people really need someone to point
you to the obvious fact that this business model has been around for
years and has been successful you have other much more important
issues to address.

How about a Pager? No service and its a brick. OnStar in your new GM,
no sub = Useless.

If you dont like they (Tivo) do business, dont do business with them,
isn't choice great?

--
David
June 14, 2005 7:37:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 09:46:40 -0400, Special <spec@spec.org> wrote:

>...Is that the box is apparently useless if you don't pay.
>
>I bought one for my father a couple of years ago. Being a stuborn old
>man resistant to change, he refused to use it. He still uses VCRs.
>
>Now that the cable company supplies an HD DVR for about ten bucks per
>month I took the Tivo out. It's a shame that I can't program it to
>record shows by date/time like a VCR. I would never buy another Tivo
>product because of this built in uselessness of the hardware.
>
>I'm surprised that nobody has totally reprogrammed this box to simply
>record like a VCR without the Tivo service. I don't mean a Tivo
>software hack. I mean wipe out the HD and put a totally new OS on it
>that has a simple VCR like menu system. I would gladly pay $30 or $40
>for such software.

Tivo is pretty much useless period.

Good move getting the cable DVR.

Sean
June 15, 2005 1:57:31 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

In article <nfcua1hv9c0h5ctsmnk1rso1nlt8ori4og@4ax.com>, Sean <none> wrote:
>On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 09:46:40 -0400, Special <spec@spec.org> wrote:
>
>>...Is that the box is apparently useless if you don't pay.
>>
>>I bought one for my father a couple of years ago. Being a stuborn old
>>man resistant to change, he refused to use it. He still uses VCRs.
>>
>>Now that the cable company supplies an HD DVR for about ten bucks per
>>month I took the Tivo out. It's a shame that I can't program it to
>>record shows by date/time like a VCR. I would never buy another Tivo
>>product because of this built in uselessness of the hardware.
>>
>>I'm surprised that nobody has totally reprogrammed this box to simply
>>record like a VCR without the Tivo service. I don't mean a Tivo
>>software hack. I mean wipe out the HD and put a totally new OS on it
>>that has a simple VCR like menu system. I would gladly pay $30 or $40
>>for such software.
>
>Tivo is pretty much useless period.
>
>Good move getting the cable DVR.
>
>Sean
Soon your precious Cockcast DVR will have Tivo software on it.
June 15, 2005 2:45:43 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 21:57:31 GMT, glenzabr@xmission.com (GMAN) wrote:

>In article <nfcua1hv9c0h5ctsmnk1rso1nlt8ori4og@4ax.com>, Sean <none> wrote:
>>On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 09:46:40 -0400, Special <spec@spec.org> wrote:
>>
>>>...Is that the box is apparently useless if you don't pay.
>>>
>>>I bought one for my father a couple of years ago. Being a stuborn old
>>>man resistant to change, he refused to use it. He still uses VCRs.
>>>
>>>Now that the cable company supplies an HD DVR for about ten bucks per
>>>month I took the Tivo out. It's a shame that I can't program it to
>>>record shows by date/time like a VCR. I would never buy another Tivo
>>>product because of this built in uselessness of the hardware.
>>>
>>>I'm surprised that nobody has totally reprogrammed this box to simply
>>>record like a VCR without the Tivo service. I don't mean a Tivo
>>>software hack. I mean wipe out the HD and put a totally new OS on it
>>>that has a simple VCR like menu system. I would gladly pay $30 or $40
>>>for such software.
>>
>>Tivo is pretty much useless period.
>>
>>Good move getting the cable DVR.
>>
>>Sean
>Soon your precious Cockcast DVR will have Tivo software on it.


No it won't. Unless I decide to pay extra for it.

The existing DVR's will still be offered.

Sean
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 7:25:13 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

> Oh, I agree, the service is worth the money, that's not at issue.
>
> But those who don't need the service, the people who don't care
> for the guide, and therefore for any of the features that juggle
> the guide info (season pass, wishlists, schedule changes, SP
> manager, daily call, suggestions, thumbs ratings...) those people
> are being sent away by tivo, because all they need is a digital
> vcr.

But what if Tivo doesn't *want* that business? It seems to me that Tivo
sees itself as a "services" company. The hardware exists as a platform
to provide their services. They don't want to be in the hardware
commodity business. The profits on commodity products are very small
and engender little to know customer loyalty. How do you know that
they're making the wrong choice, and can't they choose to do that if
they want?

> It could be painfully simple to strip the guide-function sections
> from the tivo software and 'snip out' the places in the program
> that point to them. What's left is what some people want, a tivo
> branded, *truly* stand alone, digital vcr. No regular call-in, no
> required monthly fee. What the hell, yank out the console
> section, turn off the log files, set up every config/text file to
> be encrypted, so that to truly hack it you have to pull the drive
> and start hacking the os and the executables themselves. Go ahead
> and make it non-upgradeable to get service. As long as it's there
> in the manual/box/somewhere legal, then tivo is fine.

But, as noted above, there's a heck of a lot less profit in selling that
type of equipment. The companies that produce that type of equipment
(and there are plenty) are large volume electronics manufacturing
companies (like Sony, Philips, etc) that can get by on razor thin
margins and volume sales. Tivo is nothing like Sony, and doesn't want
to compete with them.

> Remember, stealing service is getting the guide data, and the
> functions that depend on it, for free. If you don't want to pay
> for guide data, or be required to make the regular call-in, then
> you shouldn't have to.

Remember what? Your personal definition as to what stealing service is?
Tivo's definition (the one that we all agreed to in the box or by
signing up for service) defines stealing service much more broadly.
Guess which one holds more legal weight.

> Hell, even the cell companies are going this path, or haven't you
> noticed the pay-as-you-go cell phones in your local convenience
> store? And this is from years of customers getting pissed about
> long term contracts with steep termination fees....

Tivo uses the exact same model, haven't you noticed? I pay for a month
of service, I get a month of service (there's also a lifetime option if
you so choose). If I don't pay, I don't get service. Same goes for
cell phones (except for 911 use which is a federally mandated
requirement and doesn't really apply to Tivo as it's not a safety
issue). To get certain rebates, etc., yes you have to sign up for a
year of service, but their normal contract doesn't require it. Sort of
like cell phone service, no?

Randy S.
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 9:41:38 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

In article <ai0ub19quqba466vjl4bts97g17en2gu3s@4ax.com>, Jason wrote:

> Theft of service? Nope, don't wanna take any bandwidth, or
> communicate with tivo at all, just pay for the hardware and use
> it's most basic function, to record the time and channel I tell
> it to, no more, and absolutely no regular call.


Why do you want a TiVo when, clearly, what you want is a DVR with no
frills? And why complain when TiVo doesn't give you the bottom-tier
product it so clearly is not?

This really has been beaten to death here. TiVo sells you the hardware
with the expectation that you will subscribe to the service. The
hardware is designed to work with the service. TiVo has no reason to
sell hardware to people who aren't going to use the service, and so
they have no reason to accomodate you. You think they should. They
don't. Round and round we go.

The people who use the service and hardware don't really care about
this.
June 26, 2005 11:55:39 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 18:12:57 -0400, Randy S. wrote:

>> Service is linked to that regular call-in for guide data,
>
>That is one component of service, yes.
>
>> and that is the axis that TiVo's business model turns upon.
>
>Really? Who says? I bet Tivo would disagree.

They wouldn't disagree, it's a true statement.
Let's example this, and start with tivo-basic. You get:hard disk
recording, record from guide, record by time/channel, control
live tv, broadband, 3 days of guide data space. This list is
straight from the tivo website. Because these are the only
features listed for tivo-basic, it's safe to say the rest are
'add-on' features, those not necessary for its most basic
function, that of a digital video recorder.
Of those listed, there are only 2 that, if you remove them, the
box stops:Hard disk recording, and guide data. Obviously, if you
take away disk recording it wouldn't be called a digital recorder
of anything, it would be *unable* to work. So the guide data is
the lever that the rest of it rests upon, the one thing that the
box will *refuse* to work without, and that's the difference. The
box has all capability, but will refuse to function without guide
data. But the source of the guide data is the phone call...

Take away the phone call, and you take away the guide data, and
that's where the box's software refuses to work. Simple as that.

>They are are "leasing"
>you the right to use their software (that's the way the contract reads).
> One component of that is getting the schedule. The features of the
>software are other components. You don't pay your sub, you're not
>entitled to use the software, *any* of it, not just the guide data.

The sony vs universal lawsuit "The Betamax Case" ruled that it
was legal and fair for a person to use a sony vcr to record
things for personal use later. The specific phrase was 'whole
television programs'. It also ruled that the equipment used for
such purposes was also quite legal, that this was a 'fair use' of
the equipment and of the content recorded. Written another way,
it is illegal for a company to interfere in the fair use of a
piece of equipment meant for personal use of this nature. That
old but smart ruling covers the hardware only, you might say,
but...

There are those who say that a piece of software that functions
as an 'off switch' on a piece of sheltered hardware is itself a
violation. What use is the protected hardware if the software now
acts as the mechanism used to govern what that hardware
can/cannot be used to do? Answer: no use at all, and definitely
not fair use.
Tivo has copyright functions, oh yes. It limits what you can do
with what's recorded based on channel. This is of dubious logic,
because anything watched could conceivably fall under the shelter
of protected fair use. But that's too easy to point out, so let's
put it aside.
Now, since the channel tivo thinks is on is not necessarily the
actual channel, the limitation is placed on allowed content.
Anyone who might claim that the tivo acts on it's best knowledge
may be correct, but only by disregarding the manual sections that
talk about channel changing and IR tents. Those sections, by
their presence, tell that the tivo cannot always be positive
which channel is actually on the tv.


>> (( Personally, I like the service. But just because I like path A
>> does not mean I should be forced to go down path A. There should
>> be an option, path B. ))
>
>There's plenty of path B. It's called a non-Tivo DVR. This argument
>seems so silly because there are tons of exactly what you want all
>around. Why does it have to be "Tivo" brand? Without the much-loved
>Tivo features and service, what would it add?
>
>Randy S.

Because I want Tivo to get big. I want them to be the biggest of
the rest of them, by a good margin. As a company they let loose a
bunch of restrictions. They don't bitch and yank websites that
explain how to hack their boxes. They leave 30-second skip
functions active in their code. They created a menu system that,
for the most part, is intuitive. They design the insides of their
boxes to be easily modified. They've got the right setup, the
right outlook of it: Give the people something of quality that
the tinkerers can play with easily. Even if I don't hack my own
box, I want tivo to keep going, because they don't have a problem
should I decide to do that later.
June 27, 2005 8:19:47 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 18:12:57 -0400, "Randy S." <Randy@nospam.com>
wrote:

>Again, there are tons of DVR's out there that will do this.

Would you be so kind as to name a few? I'm searching for a simple
digital replacement for a VCR. I don't want a DVD burner included. I
don't want subscription service. I don't want to have to build a
computer with a TV tuner to do the job. I just want to stop using the
tape machine. I can buy a VCR for under $50. Is there a DVR for
under $100 ?
Anonymous
June 27, 2005 8:19:48 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Noah wrote:
> On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 18:12:57 -0400, "Randy S." <Randy@nospam.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>Again, there are tons of DVR's out there that will do this.
>
>
> Would you be so kind as to name a few? I'm searching for a simple
> digital replacement for a VCR. I don't want a DVD burner included. I
> don't want subscription service. I don't want to have to build a
> computer with a TV tuner to do the job. I just want to stop using the
> tape machine. I can buy a VCR for under $50. Is there a DVR for
> under $100 ?
>

That may be a good point, I'm not sure if there are non-DVD integrated
non-Tivo units out there (other than ReplayTV units which use a very
similar business model as Tivo uses). The ones I was thinking of are
DVD integrated as you point out, and they're not typically that cheap.
Take this one for example -

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7006759&t...


Perhaps others can point out some cheaper options. But I wouldn't bet
on finding one under $100, that's pretty low.

Randy S.
June 28, 2005 4:15:54 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 15:22:16 -0400, Randy S. wrote:

>Noah wrote:
>> On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 18:12:57 -0400, "Randy S." <Randy@nospam.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Again, there are tons of DVR's out there that will do this.
>>
>>
>> Would you be so kind as to name a few? I'm searching for a simple
>> digital replacement for a VCR. I don't want a DVD burner included. I
>> don't want subscription service. I don't want to have to build a
>> computer with a TV tuner to do the job. I just want to stop using the
>> tape machine. I can buy a VCR for under $50. Is there a DVR for
>> under $100 ?
>>
>
>That may be a good point, I'm not sure if there are non-DVD integrated
>non-Tivo units out there (other than ReplayTV units which use a very
>similar business model as Tivo uses). The ones I was thinking of are
>DVD integrated as you point out, and they're not typically that cheap.
>Take this one for example -
>
>http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7006759&t...
>
>
>Perhaps others can point out some cheaper options. But I wouldn't bet
>on finding one under $100, that's pretty low.
>
>Randy S.

Well, I saw some units on amazon that ranged from that bestbuy
$665 down to about $225, which actually isn't bad. I didn't find
any just-a-hard-drive-inna-box units. To get a stand-alone, no
outside communication, capability at least needs a dvd recorder.
It seems that panasonic and toshiba have a few models of those
out there, and some of them mention editing out the commercials
in what seemed to be on-the-fly mode.
Anonymous
June 28, 2005 5:26:11 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

>>http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7006759&t...
>>
>>
>>Perhaps others can point out some cheaper options. But I wouldn't bet
>>on finding one under $100, that's pretty low.
>>
>>Randy S.
>
>
> Well, I saw some units on amazon that ranged from that bestbuy
> $665 down to about $225, which actually isn't bad. I didn't find
> any just-a-hard-drive-inna-box units. To get a stand-alone, no
> outside communication, capability at least needs a dvd recorder.
> It seems that panasonic and toshiba have a few models of those
> out there, and some of them mention editing out the commercials
> in what seemed to be on-the-fly mode.

Hmm, that seems interesting. Automatic commercial skipping seems like
it would get the MPAA and networks in a tizzy, though!

Randy S.
Anonymous
June 28, 2005 7:45:01 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

(Jason) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
> Well, I saw some units on amazon that ranged from that bestbuy
> $665 down to about $225, which actually isn't bad. I didn't find
> any just-a-hard-drive-inna-box units. To get a stand-alone, no
> outside communication, capability at least needs a dvd recorder.

Remember that the DVD recorders with TiVo come with "TiVo Basic", which
allows VCR-like recording with no outside communication. You even get
some TiVo features for free if you connect to the TiVo servers. I see some
online for $300, and that's not bad.

--
Jeff Rife |
| http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/OverTheHedge/VelveetaAndRo...
June 29, 2005 4:29:58 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

* Randy S. wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
>>>http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7006759&t...


>>>Perhaps others can point out some cheaper options. But I wouldn't bet
>>>on finding one under $100, that's pretty low.

>> Well, I saw some units on amazon that ranged from that bestbuy
>> $665 down to about $225, which actually isn't bad. I didn't find
>> any just-a-hard-drive-inna-box units. To get a stand-alone, no
>> outside communication, capability at least needs a dvd recorder.
>> It seems that panasonic and toshiba have a few models of those
>> out there, and some of them mention editing out the commercials
>> in what seemed to be on-the-fly mode.

> Hmm, that seems interesting. Automatic commercial skipping seems like
> it would get the MPAA and networks in a tizzy, though!

It doesnt skip them on initial playback if I am not mistaken. They allow
you to mark the commercials and then move the video off the unit without
the commercials. The pricier DVD recorders with HD's have this feature.

--
David
To live is always desirable.
-- Eleen the Capellan, "Friday's Child", stardate 3498.9
June 30, 2005 3:49:36 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 15:45:01 -0400, Jeff Rife wrote:

> (Jason) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
>> Well, I saw some units on amazon that ranged from that bestbuy
>> $665 down to about $225, which actually isn't bad. I didn't find
>> any just-a-hard-drive-inna-box units. To get a stand-alone, no
>> outside communication, capability at least needs a dvd recorder.
>
>Remember that the DVD recorders with TiVo come with "TiVo Basic", which
>allows VCR-like recording with no outside communication. You even get
>some TiVo features for free if you connect to the TiVo servers. I see some
>online for $300, and that's not bad.

Yeah, I'm aware of that. The ones I saw did not mention tivo at
all, since the person was looking for hard-drive-inna-box
functionality.
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