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not so daily calls?

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Anonymous
July 8, 2005 1:56:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Why has TIVO gone to a call in system where the DVR sometimes skips
call in days? My machine is a Series 2 SA with version 7.x software.

More about : daily calls

July 8, 2005 11:45:49 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

George Max <lazarus@removethis.rr.com> wrote in
news:ut4tc1d7e5vso9nlov0q2a3v3fnu32orlc@4ax.com:

> Why has TIVO gone to a call in system where the DVR sometimes skips
> call in days? My machine is a Series 2 SA with version 7.x software.

Been this way for quite some time now, and uses an algorhythm not known to
any man.

In general, the average TiVo will try to set up the next call for a time
25-28 hours after the last sucessful. If this time falls during 'prime
time', then the call will not happen. Some TiVos will schedule it for that
time, then just simply NOT call, quietly rescheduling it for a later time.
Others (such as my Series 2 SA with 7.1b, other may be different) will not
schedule it at all for prime time. So if the last time it made a call was
Monday at 5:13pm, then 25-28 hours from then would be Tuesday between 6 and
9pm. So it will actually schedule the call for Wednesday morning sometime.

This could, to some people, look as if it is going to skip a day.

As for 'why'...you have 12 days of data. What do you care if it takes a
day or two to call in? As long as it calls in within a week, the average
user isn't even going to notice.

--
Minister of All Things Digital & Electronic, and Holder of Past Knowledge
stile99@email.com. Cabal# 24601-fnord | Sleep is irrelevant.
I speak for no one but myself, and |Caffeine will be assimilated.
no one else speaks for me. O- | Decaf is futile.
Anonymous
July 8, 2005 11:45:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

In article <Xns968D9633A3A4Fstile@129.250.170.82>,
Howard <stile99@email..com> wrote:
>As for 'why'...you have 12 days of data. What do you care if it takes a
>day or two to call in? As long as it calls in within a week, the average
>user isn't even going to notice.

True, though calls more often make it more likely that you'll get last minute
changes. Though I realize since it was about every day before, you'd likely
only get updates for _tomorrow_ not today.

As a real world example, I wonder if my Tivos (or the official guide data
from Tribune at all) will know about the MTV/VH1 reairings-but-without-
commercials-and-apparently-far-fewer(none?)-talking-heads of Live 8 tomorrow.

Even though I'll likely get the real DVDs, I'm going to record tomorrow's too.
--
mattack@gmail.com
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Anonymous
July 8, 2005 11:58:27 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

In article <ut4tc1d7e5vso9nlov0q2a3v3fnu32orlc@4ax.com>,
George Max <lazarus@removethis.rr.com> writes:
>
> Why has TIVO gone to a call in system where the DVR sometimes skips
> call in days? My machine is a Series 2 SA with version 7.x software.

I haven't been following TiVo things very closely recently, but a year or
two ago they switched from true daily calls to calls every two or three
days for SA units. The reason was two-fold, as I understand it:

1) To save money. The calls cost TiVo money, so reducing their number
makes financial sense.
2) Because the guide data was being delivered via late-night recordings.
The main reason for a daily call (vs. a call every few days) was to
ensure that guide data was up to date. TiVo began sending guide data
via "paid programming" shows on the Discovery Channel, though, so most
units got their guide data in that way. This made true daily calls
unnecessary for most subscribers, so they could cut back the frequency
without ill effect to most subscribers.

--
Rod Smith, rodsmith@rodsbooks.com
http://www.rodsbooks.com
Author of books on Linux, FreeBSD, and networking
Anonymous
July 8, 2005 11:58:28 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

In article <3g23q2-341.ln1@speaker.rodsbooks.com>,
Rod Smith <rodsmith@rodsbooks.com> wrote:
>2) Because the guide data was being delivered via late-night recordings.

Do they really get ALL of the guide data from those recordings? I thought
those were only weekly recordings, and only around a half an hour. Also,
as you mentioned, some would miss them (I often had a conflicting recording).
--
mattack@gmail.com
Anonymous
July 9, 2005 4:02:39 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Rod Smith wrote:

> Because the guide data was being delivered via late-night recordings.

Note that the late-night recordings usually have two segments.

1) The data segment sends 16 bits of data per video scan line by
modulating a square wave onto black & white video. TiVo displays
a banner message instead, but this data exchange is visible
from an external DirecTV receiver.

2) The second segment has video clips for Showcases and gold-star items.

-Joe
Anonymous
July 9, 2005 5:30:35 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

mattack@gmail.com wrote:
> As a real world example, I wonder if my Tivos (or the official guide data
> from Tribune at all) will know about the MTV/VH1 reairings-but-without-
> commercials-and-apparently-far-fewer(none?)-talking-heads of Live 8 tomorrow.

My HD DirecTiVo sees the VH1 session, but not the five hours on MTV.
My SA TiVo did not see anything until I force a daily call at 11:45pm;
now it too sees the 7:00am VH1 session only.
-Joe
July 9, 2005 5:15:12 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

On Sat, 09 Jul 2005 00:02:39 -0700, Joe Smith wrote:

>Rod Smith wrote:
>
>> Because the guide data was being delivered via late-night recordings.
>
>Note that the late-night recordings usually have two segments.
>
>1) The data segment sends 16 bits of data per video scan line by
> modulating a square wave onto black & white video. TiVo displays
> a banner message instead, but this data exchange is visible
> from an external DirecTV receiver.
>
>2) The second segment has video clips for Showcases and gold-star items.
>
> -Joe

Joe's got game.
Anonymous
July 9, 2005 8:51:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Joe Smith" <joe@inwap.com> wrote in message
news:CIudnaOWCqni61LfRVn-pw@comcast.com...
> Rod Smith wrote:
>
>> Because the guide data was being delivered via late-night recordings.
>
> Note that the late-night recordings usually have two segments.
>
> 1) The data segment sends 16 bits of data per video scan line by
> modulating a square wave onto black & white video. TiVo displays
> a banner message instead, but this data exchange is visible
> from an external DirecTV receiver.


What is the data though? Nobody has claimed that they don't download this
data.
Anonymous
July 9, 2005 8:57:31 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

<Jason> wrote in message news:gg10d1l6scui7nd388236almoi5eb4vifc@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 09 Jul 2005 00:02:39 -0700, Joe Smith wrote:
>
>>Rod Smith wrote:
>>
>>> Because the guide data was being delivered via late-night recordings.
>>
>>Note that the late-night recordings usually have two segments.
>>
>>1) The data segment sends 16 bits of data per video scan line by
>> modulating a square wave onto black & white video. TiVo displays
>> a banner message instead, but this data exchange is visible
>> from an external DirecTV receiver.
>>
>>2) The second segment has video clips for Showcases and gold-star items.
>>
>> -Joe
>
> Joe's got game.
>

If he he's "got game" he'd be telling us what's in the download data and
where his info came from. Instead he just gave a basic description of how
the download works which is irrelevant to the topic of what's in the data.

Jason's got nothin'.
July 10, 2005 12:25:19 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

rodsmith@nessus.rodsbooks.com (Rod Smith) wrote in
news:ikg5q2-k59.ln1@speaker.rodsbooks.com:

> My understanding is that these recordings are now the primary means of
> delivering guide data to most SA TiVos. Certainly that's what's been
> widely reported in this newsgroup and on the TiVo Community Forum. I
> don't know of an authoritative source confirming this information,
> though (hence the phrase "my understanding is," both here and [in
> slightly different form] in my original post). If you've got solid
> information to the contrary, please post it.

Well, I'm not morphboy, but I believe I can field this one.

Discovery used to have two types of shows. Teleworld Paid Programming and
(I believe) Advanced Teleworld Programming. The title certainly had
'advanced' in it.

Since December of last year, only the first has been shown. For awhile,
some people reported that the advanced program was being shown on the Game
Show network. Not having this channel, I can't say if this is still so.

The kicker? The advanced version is where the data comes from. Teleworld
Paid Programming has video and video only. Period.

If you don't believe me, then go look at your TiVo and tell me when the
last service data download was.

> Yes, but that doesn't lessen the use of the recordings for delivering
> guide data.

Wrong.

>> Many of these recordings are for video only
>> and include no data.
>
> Again, this doesn't lessen the use of the recordings for delivering
> guide data.

Again, wrong.

Assuming the advanced version IS still shown on the Game Show network, then
even in that case, claiming it to be the 'primary means of delivering guide
data to most SA TiVos' when most people don't even GET this network is
shaky at best.

--
Minister of All Things Digital & Electronic, and Holder of Past Knowledge
stile99@email.com. Cabal# 24601-fnord | Sleep is irrelevant.
I speak for no one but myself, and |Caffeine will be assimilated.
no one else speaks for me. O- | Decaf is futile.
Anonymous
July 10, 2005 12:25:20 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Howard" <stile99@email..com> wrote in message
news:Xns968E9CE898DCFstile@129.250.170.88...
> rodsmith@nessus.rodsbooks.com (Rod Smith) wrote in
> news:ikg5q2-k59.ln1@speaker.rodsbooks.com:
>
>> Again, this doesn't lessen the use of the recordings for delivering
>> guide data.
>
> Again, wrong.
>
> Assuming the advanced version IS still shown on the Game Show network,
> then
> even in that case, claiming it to be the 'primary means of delivering
> guide
> data to most SA TiVos' when most people don't even GET this network is
> shaky at best.
>

Not to mention that it only occurs once a week.
If You already have 12 days of guide data at the time of the download you
won't get a13th day, so what is it downloading? - certainly not guide data.
Anonymous
July 10, 2005 9:17:19 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

In article <Xns968E9CE898DCFstile@129.250.170.88>,
Howard <stile99@email..com> writes:
>
> rodsmith@nessus.rodsbooks.com (Rod Smith) wrote in
> news:ikg5q2-k59.ln1@speaker.rodsbooks.com:
>
>> My understanding is that these recordings are now the primary means of
>> delivering guide data to most SA TiVos.
>
> Discovery used to have two types of shows. Teleworld Paid Programming and
> (I believe) Advanced Teleworld Programming. The title certainly had
> 'advanced' in it.
>
> Since December of last year, only the first has been shown. For awhile,
> some people reported that the advanced program was being shown on the Game
> Show network. Not having this channel, I can't say if this is still so.

This would certainly change things, at the very least shifting it to
another channel or title. If they've reverted to using the daily calls
exclusively, it's a bit puzzling to me, since that would likely increase
TiVo's costs -- unless maybe the cost savings just weren't what they'd
initially hoped or the TV-based guide data distribution had other problems
(reliability, say).

As to GSN, I've got it, I just checked, and I couldn't find anything with
a title beginning with "Advanced." There are a lot of generic "Paid
Programming" shows on GSN, though. OTOH, I've got a DirecTiVo, so its
guide data might simply not be flagging the relevant broadcasts as such.

> If you don't believe me, then go look at your TiVo and tell me when the
> last service data download was.

That wouldn't help, since mine is a DirecTiVo, not an SA unit.

>>> and could also include data for anything
>>> else the Tivo needs data for.
>>
>> Yes, but that doesn't lessen the use of the recordings for delivering
>> guide data.
>
> Wrong.

Not really. Zardaz's logic was flawed. Using TV broadcasts to deliver one
kind of data to TiVos does not preclude using the same mechanism to
deliver another type of data to TiVos. That's like saying that because
airplanes carry human passengers they can't also carry cargo for UPS. The
conclusion that TiVo isn't using these broadcasts for guide data may be
correct, but not for the reasons Zardaz stated.

--
Rod Smith, rodsmith@rodsbooks.com
http://www.rodsbooks.com
Author of books on Linux, FreeBSD, and networking
!