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Newbie help needed - Recording two shows at once

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  • Ptv Tivo
  • Tivo
Last response: in Home Theatre Legacy
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July 18, 2005 11:57:44 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Hey all.

I currently use a VCR to time shift and I've had enough. I have
regular basic cable at the moment and that's all I want.

So that is my current set up.

I want to buy a Tivo player with a built in hard drive that can then
burn those shows to DVD. Money is no object as long as it will do
what I need it to do.

I need one that can record two shows together as often there are two
shows I want to record that are on at the same time.

Otherwise, I would have to buy two Tivo players and I don't really
want to have to do that.

If this feature isn't currently available would it be in the near
future? Is there a technical reason why it isn't available?

Oh, and I am partial to Pioneer DVD gear. I have a high end Pioneer
DVD player that I'm very happy with.

Any thoughts or suggestions that might be able to help me would be
appreciated. Thanks to anyone and everyone.



Frank - on the internet, where even you can be important

More about : newbie needed recording shows

Anonymous
July 19, 2005 5:01:16 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

>I currently use a VCR to time shift and I've had enough. I have
>regular basic cable at the moment and that's all I want.
>
>So that is my current set up.
>
>I want to buy a Tivo player with a built in hard drive that can then
>burn those shows to DVD. Money is no object as long as it will do
>what I need it to do.
>
>I need one that can record two shows together as often there are two
>shows I want to record that are on at the same time.

A standalone TiVo records one show at a time.
A DirecTV TiVo records two shows at a time but only from DirecTV.
As far as I know, there are no standalone non-TiVo PVRs that do
two shows at a time, either, unless you buy two of them.

>Otherwise, I would have to buy two Tivo players and I don't really
>want to have to do that.
>
>If this feature isn't currently available would it be in the near
>future? Is there a technical reason why it isn't available?

Two tuners cost money. There's the additional issue that you need
two cable boxes if you want to record two encrypted programs from
cable simultaneously. There is also the issue that recording from
cable box output requires compression to record to the hard disk,
and that requires a hardware MPEG encoder or more CPU power, *per*
show being simultaneously recorded.

Gordon L. Burditt
July 19, 2005 6:44:56 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Frank <Frankma@comcast.net> wrote in
news:9k8od1porilr7f1fasl3on09u5733v0sbl@4ax.com:

> I want to buy a Tivo player with a built in hard drive that can then
> burn those shows to DVD. Money is no object as long as it will do
> what I need it to do.
>
> I need one that can record two shows together as often there are two
> shows I want to record that are on at the same time.
>
> Otherwise, I would have to buy two Tivo players and I don't really
> want to have to do that.

Just out of curiosity, if money is no object exactly what is the problem
with buying two TiVos? Currently there are TiVos with DVD recording
ability, and TiVos with two tuners (only if you have DirecTV), but no TiVos
with two tuners and DVD burning.

--
Minister of All Things Digital & Electronic, and Holder of Past Knowledge
stile99@email.com. Cabal# 24601-fnord | Sleep is irrelevant.
I speak for no one but myself, and |Caffeine will be assimilated.
no one else speaks for me. O- | Decaf is futile.
Related resources
Anonymous
July 19, 2005 3:54:15 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

In article <9k8od1porilr7f1fasl3on09u5733v0sbl@4ax.com>,
Frank <Frankma@comcast.net> wrote:

> Hey all.
>
> I currently use a VCR to time shift and I've had enough. I have
> regular basic cable at the moment and that's all I want.
>
> So that is my current set up.
>
> I want to buy a Tivo player with a built in hard drive that can then
> burn those shows to DVD. Money is no object as long as it will do
> what I need it to do.
>
> I need one that can record two shows together as often there are two
> shows I want to record that are on at the same time.
>
> Otherwise, I would have to buy two Tivo players and I don't really
> want to have to do that.

You just said money is no object. To work with Cable you'd need 2 TiVo
units. Then you'd use TiVo to Go functionality to move shows to a PC and
thence to DVD.

Or go to DirecTv with TiVo which has 2 tuners and can do the 2 shows at
once. Although you'd have to "hack" it to offload shows to DVD in
digital quality.

http://www.dellanave.com/projects/tivo/62slices.html



> If this feature isn't currently available would it be in the near
> future? Is there a technical reason why it isn't available?
>
> Oh, and I am partial to Pioneer DVD gear. I have a high end Pioneer
> DVD player that I'm very happy with.

Pioneer makes a DVD Recorder with TiVo built in that would work nicely
with your cable, but only 1 show is recordable at a time.

>
> Any thoughts or suggestions that might be able to help me would be
> appreciated. Thanks to anyone and everyone.
>
>
>
> Frank - on the internet, where even you can be important
Anonymous
July 19, 2005 3:54:16 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

>>Otherwise, I would have to buy two Tivo players and I don't really
>>want to have to do that.
>
>
> You just said money is no object. To work with Cable you'd need 2 TiVo
> units. Then you'd use TiVo to Go functionality to move shows to a PC and
> thence to DVD.
>
> Or go to DirecTv with TiVo which has 2 tuners and can do the 2 shows at
> once. Although you'd have to "hack" it to offload shows to DVD in
> digital quality.
>
> http://www.dellanave.com/projects/tivo/62slices.html

It sounds to me his best bet is 2 Tivos, one with a DVD burner and one
without (or 2 with, if he just want's to burn money). If he want's to
burn a show from the other Tivo, just move it over with MRV.

There may be some scheduling complications, since the Tivo's won't
cooperatively schedule, but wouldn't putting the same season passes in,
but reversing the priorities make sure he get's everything (unless
there's a 3-way conflict)?

Remember that the monthly fees on the 2nd Tivo are half that of the
first, so it's not as expensive as it might seem to be at first.

Randy S.
Anonymous
July 20, 2005 11:52:12 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

<<A DirecTV TiVo records two shows at a time but only from DirecTV.>>

That's not correct - a DirecTivo can record from DirecTV or antenna in
any combination, 2 shows at once.

John Cowart
Anonymous
July 20, 2005 3:18:00 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

bo peep <cowartmisc1@yahoo.com> wrote:
> <<A DirecTV TiVo records two shows at a time but only from DirecTV.>>

> That's not correct - a DirecTivo can record from DirecTV or antenna in
> any combination, 2 shows at once.

A SD DirecTiVo (which is generally what is meant by the term) can not
record from the antenna; DirecTV programs only.

--
Stephen Harris
usenet@spuddy.org
The truth is the truth, and opinion just opinion. But what is what?
My employer pays to ignore my opinions; you get to do it for free.
Anonymous
July 20, 2005 7:37:24 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

bo peep wrote:
> <<A DirecTV TiVo records two shows at a time but only from DirecTV.>>
>
> That's not correct - a DirecTivo can record from DirecTV or antenna in
> any combination, 2 shows at once.

Sorry, John, you are operating with incomplete information.

A standard DirecTV TiVo:
Can record up to two channels of satellite programming.
Cannot record local digital HDTV broadcasts.
Cannot record regular analog (NTSC) broadcasts.
Cannot record unscrambled analog cable TV.
Cannot record digital cable (not even with a converter box).
Cannot record audio/video input from another source.

The High-Definition DirecTV TiVo:
Can record up to two channels of satellite programming, HDTV and SDTV.
Can record up to two channels of local HDTV+SDTV digital broadcast.
Can record one of each simultaneously.
Cannot record regular analog (NTSC) broadcasts.
Cannot record unscrambled analog cable TV.
Cannot record digital cable (not even with a converter box).
Cannot record audio/video input from another source.

So, you'll need to qualify your statement: a High-Def DirecTiVo can
record from DirecTV or local digital channels via antenna, or both.

-Joe
July 20, 2005 9:45:39 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"bo peep" <cowartmisc1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1121871132.293755.34810@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> <<A DirecTV TiVo records two shows at a time but only from DirecTV.>>
>
> That's not correct - a DirecTivo can record from DirecTV or antenna in
> any combination, 2 shows at once.

Only HD unit can, and the antenna signal must be digital.
July 21, 2005 7:06:57 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Sure, money is no object to a point. I have the money to buy two
units, but at the moment I am doing exactly the same thing but with
two VCR's.

I want to stop using VCR's for the obvious reasons plus a couple of
reasons unique to me. However, it is not essential that I stop right
now, though sooner or later I will, whether it be by choice or need.

If I am going to stop now since I don't NEED to stop now, I would only
stop if the conversion would go exactly how I want it to.

One of my requirements (at this time) is to convert to only having to
use one piece of equipment. That doesn't seem to be possible at this
time from what you and others have said.

If I have to buy two TIVO's the annoyance factor of having to use two
pieces of equipment will still be there, a huge drawback to me.

On 19 Jul 2005 02:44:56 GMT, Howard <stile99@email..com> wrote:

>Frank <Frankma@comcast.net> wrote in
>news:9k8od1porilr7f1fasl3on09u5733v0sbl@4ax.com:
>
>> I want to buy a Tivo player with a built in hard drive that can then
>> burn those shows to DVD. Money is no object as long as it will do
>> what I need it to do.
>>
>> I need one that can record two shows together as often there are two
>> shows I want to record that are on at the same time.
>>
>> Otherwise, I would have to buy two Tivo players and I don't really
>> want to have to do that.
>
>Just out of curiosity, if money is no object exactly what is the problem
>with buying two TiVos? Currently there are TiVos with DVD recording
>ability, and TiVos with two tuners (only if you have DirecTV), but no TiVos
>with two tuners and DVD burning.

Frank - on the internet, where even you can be important
July 21, 2005 7:11:56 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Hmm, this raises another question. I only have basic cable right now,
and only want basic cable. I have no need for the premium channels.

I tend to buy the movies I want used, I'm not really a renter.

Is it required that I pay these "monthly fees" to use TIVO?

I want the TIVO I purchase to function for me just as my trusty VCR
does now. I program the date, and time of what I want to record and
the VCR does the rest. I do not want to pay to pick a specific tv
show from a menu. Nonsense I say.



>
>Remember that the monthly fees on the 2nd Tivo are half that of the
>first, so it's not as expensive as it might seem to be at first.
>
>Randy S.

Frank - on the internet, where even you can be important
Anonymous
July 21, 2005 7:11:57 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Frank wrote:
> I do not want to pay to pick a specific tv
> show from a menu. Nonsense I say.

You must not have any favorite TV series in mind.

Back when The X-Files was on, I wanted to see each new
episode, regardless of what time of day it was broadcast.
All too often, the local Fox station would bump the show
to late night whenever the Oakland A's were playing.

I did not "pick the show from a menu", I requested a
Season Pass for the show. Set it and forget it.

This season I'm interested in Mythbusters. Without
any intervention on my part, my TiVo noticed that there
was a two-hour special on a different night, and recorded
that for me.

My wife has an interest in Harrison Ford. One day TiVo
noticed that Mr. Ford was listed as a guest star in an
old rerun of Gunsmoke on TV-Land, and recommended that
for her. That is something that you won't get from
the Sunday newspaper TV listings.

I have an Auto Record Wish List set for "WORLDCOM". My TiVo
automatically recorded the documentary on Bernie Ebbers on
CNBC. I don't have time to pour over all the TV listings
looking for something to record; I let the computer do that.

If you expect a DVR to be used the same as a VCR, no more, no
less, then you will be disappointed with TiVo. But if you
enjoy watching TV, and would like to have something to do
the drudge work, then a TiVo subscription is worthwhile.

-Joe
Anonymous
July 21, 2005 12:43:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Frank" <Frankma@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:cdiud1hqroenuktphb1hpiidgv45n5msse@4ax.com...
> Hmm, this raises another question. I only have basic cable right now,
> and only want basic cable. I have no need for the premium channels.
>
> I tend to buy the movies I want used, I'm not really a renter.
>
> Is it required that I pay these "monthly fees" to use TIVO?
>
> I want the TIVO I purchase to function for me just as my trusty VCR
> does now. I program the date, and time of what I want to record and
> the VCR does the rest. I do not want to pay to pick a specific tv
> show from a menu. Nonsense I say.

Certainly, one of the possibilities is to purchase a DVD recorder with a
hard drive and simply ignore the DVD part. The Lite-On 5045, selling for
$300, will do this. I've had mine for about 3 weeks. Yes, there are plenty
of things I would have done differently if I were the designer, but it DOES
do what you want it to do. It will record 66 hours of TV on its hard drive
with a quality essentially identical to the original. If you're willing to
accept quality similar to VHS SLP (EP), you can get 3 times as much on the
hard drive. All of this plus DVD recording.

If you wish, you can copy whatever is on the hard drive over to a DVD. This
process proceeds at 6 times normal speed. Note: the 5045 will NOT copy a
commercial DVD over to the hard drive, because of copy protection.

Norm Strong
Anonymous
July 21, 2005 1:18:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

On 2005-07-21, Frank <Frankma@comcast.net> wrote:
> Hmm, this raises another question. I only have basic cable right now,
> and only want basic cable. I have no need for the premium channels.
>
> I tend to buy the movies I want used, I'm not really a renter.
>
> Is it required that I pay these "monthly fees" to use TIVO?

It is required to have service for your TiVo to work. You can buy a
lifetime subscription instead of having to pay "monthly fees"

> I want the TIVO I purchase to function for me just as my trusty VCR
> does now. I program the date, and time of what I want to record and
> the VCR does the rest. I do not want to pay to pick a specific tv
> show from a menu. Nonsense I say.

Given this information, perhaps TiVo isn't the best choice for you. I've
heard people say stuff like what you did and I wonder if they will become
TiVo converts once they realize how great it is or if there really are
people out there who really want to record based on date/time even though
that tends to be more problematic and not nearly as feature-rich as using
a guide like TiVo does (combined with all the other TiVo features).

--
This is my .sig
Anonymous
July 21, 2005 7:53:10 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

>Hmm, this raises another question. I only have basic cable right now,
>and only want basic cable. I have no need for the premium channels.
>
>I tend to buy the movies I want used, I'm not really a renter.
>
>Is it required that I pay these "monthly fees" to use TIVO?
>
>I want the TIVO I purchase to function for me just as my trusty VCR
>does now. I program the date, and time of what I want to record and
>the VCR does the rest. I do not want to pay to pick a specific tv
>show from a menu. Nonsense I say.

A Series 1 standalone TiVo (or at least the vast majority of them
sold) will do time-and-channel recording with no subscription (no
hacking required).

Gordon L. Burditt
Anonymous
July 21, 2005 7:53:11 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

In article <11dvh76svdd4l83@corp.supernews.com>, Gordon Burditt
<gordon@hammy.burditt.org> wrote:

> >Hmm, this raises another question. I only have basic cable right now,
> >and only want basic cable. I have no need for the premium channels.
> >
> >I tend to buy the movies I want used, I'm not really a renter.
> >
> >Is it required that I pay these "monthly fees" to use TIVO?
> >
> >I want the TIVO I purchase to function for me just as my trusty VCR
> >does now. I program the date, and time of what I want to record and
> >the VCR does the rest. I do not want to pay to pick a specific tv
> >show from a menu. Nonsense I say.
>
> A Series 1 standalone TiVo (or at least the vast majority of them
> sold) will do time-and-channel recording with no subscription (no
> hacking required).


He doesn't want a TiVo. He wants a plain-vanilla DVR that he can
program like a VCR. I think the unsubbed TiVo's nag screens would
befuddle him as much as the prospect of picking programs from menus
seems to.
July 22, 2005 12:11:38 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Frank <Frankma@comcast.net> wrote in
news:cdiud1hqroenuktphb1hpiidgv45n5msse@4ax.com:

> Is it required that I pay these "monthly fees" to use TIVO?

Yes.

> I want the TIVO I purchase to function for me just as my trusty VCR
> does now. I program the date, and time of what I want to record and
> the VCR does the rest. I do not want to pay to pick a specific tv
> show from a menu. Nonsense I say.

There are people that TiVo (or for that matter, almost any DVR) is not a
solution for, or just simply are not ready for it. You are one of them.
There's no gentle way to say it, so forgive me for being blunt. If you
want everything done exactly your way and refuse to bend even the
slightest, nobody is stopping you from building it yourself.

--
Minister of All Things Digital & Electronic, and Holder of Past Knowledge
stile99@email.com. Cabal# 24601-fnord | Sleep is irrelevant.
I speak for no one but myself, and |Caffeine will be assimilated.
no one else speaks for me. O- | Decaf is futile.
July 22, 2005 4:22:29 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Frank <Frankma@comcast.net> wrote in
news:g8c0e117o2h2s8htjiti2diebskr9pf3v4@4ax.com:

> All I want a DVD recorder for is to do simple time shifting. I also
> want a unit with a hard drive. If I don't need an actual TIVO unit to
> do this, that's fine. I thought I would.

If this is truly want you want, TiVo or pretty much any other DVR will fill
your needs. However, you have also said you want dual tuners, and refuse
to pay for service.

> If I don't, what DO I need and is there something on the market for
> me?

Like I said, given your specs and unwillingness to waver in the slightest,
what you need is to build it yourself. You're asking if there is something
on the market that, in ONE box, has two tuners, a hard drive, a DVD burner,
and does not require a subscription? If this is correct, the answer is no.

--
Minister of All Things Digital & Electronic, and Holder of Past Knowledge
stile99@email.com. Cabal# 24601-fnord | Sleep is irrelevant.
I speak for no one but myself, and |Caffeine will be assimilated.
no one else speaks for me. O- | Decaf is futile.
July 22, 2005 5:41:24 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

I can almost deal with having to buy 2 units, but paying a
subscription to do what I plan on doing is not something I can accept.

I might wait about 6 months and see what comes down the pike. Is the
dual tuner feature unlikely to come out?

On 22 Jul 2005 00:22:29 GMT, Howard <stile99@email..com> wrote:

>Frank <Frankma@comcast.net> wrote in
>news:g8c0e117o2h2s8htjiti2diebskr9pf3v4@4ax.com:
>
>> All I want a DVD recorder for is to do simple time shifting. I also
>> want a unit with a hard drive. If I don't need an actual TIVO unit to
>> do this, that's fine. I thought I would.
>
>If this is truly want you want, TiVo or pretty much any other DVR will fill
>your needs. However, you have also said you want dual tuners, and refuse
>to pay for service.
>
>> If I don't, what DO I need and is there something on the market for
>> me?
>
>Like I said, given your specs and unwillingness to waver in the slightest,
>what you need is to build it yourself. You're asking if there is something
>on the market that, in ONE box, has two tuners, a hard drive, a DVD burner,
>and does not require a subscription? If this is correct, the answer is no.

Frank - on the internet, where even you can be important
Anonymous
July 22, 2005 11:06:11 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Frank wrote:
> I can almost deal with having to buy 2 units, but paying a
> subscription to do what I plan on doing is not something I can accept.
>
> I might wait about 6 months and see what comes down the pike. Is the
> dual tuner feature unlikely to come out?

In the SA Tivo? I'd say it's *likely* (crossing my fingers), however a
subscription will still be required. In a non-Tivo subscriptionless
DVR? If you can find one, I would rather doubt it.

You can find what you what with a media center PC probably. Of course
the software is relatively unreliable and the hardware will cost you 4
times as much upfront, but it will fit what you describe. A Tivo w/
lifetime sub would be cheaper.

Randy S.
Anonymous
July 22, 2005 2:21:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

> I can almost deal with having to buy 2 units, but paying a
> subscription to do what I plan on doing is not something I can accept.

Development costs money and subs help fund it. Thanks for doing your part.

> I might wait about 6 months and see what comes down the pike. Is the
> dual tuner feature unlikely to come out?

G'head and wait, meanwhile the rest of us value being able to use it now and
don't mind the small fee.
July 23, 2005 8:02:18 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Is there any reason why you are so nasty in your reply? Is this the
way you think you will help new people join the Tivo fold, which will
presumably pay the "development" costs which apparently is some sort
of cause with you?

If I buy the hardware, I would think the cost of the hardware
development is in the price. The cost of developing the guide
software and incorporated hardware etc. should come from the
subscription cost, right?

If I don't need or want the subscription (because I have no interest
in the service) why should I be forced to in order to use hardware
that I legitimately paid for, at least in this specific case?

You don't HAVE to buy Windows to buy a PC. There are alternatives.
Not exactly apples to apples, but close enough.

Again, all I want to use this for is time shifting, which is what I
use my 2 VCR's for. I don't really care if you look down upon me or
think I am some sort of nebbish for not yet being "enlightened" to the
wonders of a Tivo and what it could do for me. If buying this
equipment isn't going to fit my current requirements at this time I
just won't be making a purchase right now.

As I said, there is no urgent need for me to stop using my VCR's, at
least for now and the near future. They do exactly what I need them
to do without requiring me to purchase a subscription.

I am not going to pay for a Tivo subscription to accomplish what I
want to accomplish, I find no reason to do so. If I were going to
utilize the listings I would have no problem paying for them.

I am fine with inputting the dates and times of the events I want to
record manually, I don't need or want to select them from a guide. I
miss DOS, maybe that is why I am of this mind set.

I work for my money, and while I am far from poor, I am certainly not
rich enough to throw money down the toilet which in my mind I would be
doing by being required to purchase something that I will use perhaps
1% of.



On Fri, 22 Jul 2005 10:21:02 -0400, "wkearney99"
<wkearney99@hotmail.com> wrote:

>> I can almost deal with having to buy 2 units, but paying a
>> subscription to do what I plan on doing is not something I can accept.
>
>Development costs money and subs help fund it. Thanks for doing your part.
>
>> I might wait about 6 months and see what comes down the pike. Is the
>> dual tuner feature unlikely to come out?
>
>G'head and wait, meanwhile the rest of us value being able to use it now and
>don't mind the small fee.

Frank - on the internet, where even you can be important
Anonymous
July 23, 2005 11:35:54 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

In article <fkt3e1lrjcstve2qi7fio776m36afjlmi1@4ax.com>, Frank
<Frankma@comcast.net> wrote:

> Is there any reason why you are so nasty in your reply? Is this the
> way you think you will help new people join the Tivo fold, which will
> presumably pay the "development" costs which apparently is some sort
> of cause with you?
>
> If I buy the hardware, I would think the cost of the hardware
> development is in the price. The cost of developing the guide
> software and incorporated hardware etc. should come from the
> subscription cost, right?
>
> If I don't need or want the subscription (because I have no interest
> in the service) why should I be forced to in order to use hardware
> that I legitimately paid for, at least in this specific case?

They sell you their razor at a loss because they want to keep selling
you their blades at a profit. This is not a complicated concept.

You're insisting that a company that makes a machine you clearly don't
want follow an amateurish business model of your own devising simply
because you think things should be that way. The important thing to
most TiVo users is not the machine, but the service. I think it's well
worth the price. You don't. You should seek out and buy a machine
that will do what you want it to do the way you want to do it, or just
keep on using your VCRs.

> You don't HAVE to buy Windows to buy a PC. There are alternatives.
> Not exactly apples to apples, but close enough.

That's not close at all. In fact, it's nowhere. No one is selling
their computers at a loss so that you'll buy their OS.

> Again, all I want to use this for is time shifting, which is what I
> use my 2 VCR's for. I don't really care if you look down upon me or
> think I am some sort of nebbish for not yet being "enlightened" to the
> wonders of a Tivo and what it could do for me. If buying this
> equipment isn't going to fit my current requirements at this time I
> just won't be making a purchase right now.
>
> As I said, there is no urgent need for me to stop using my VCR's, at
> least for now and the near future. They do exactly what I need them
> to do without requiring me to purchase a subscription.

Fine. Go and do that. Have a ball. I did what you're doing for a
couple of decades. I'm glad I don't have to do it anymore, but that's
me.

> I am not going to pay for a Tivo subscription to accomplish what I
> want to accomplish, I find no reason to do so. If I were going to
> utilize the listings I would have no problem paying for them.
>
> I am fine with inputting the dates and times of the events I want to
> record manually, I don't need or want to select them from a guide. I
> miss DOS, maybe that is why I am of this mind set.
>
> I work for my money, and while I am far from poor, I am certainly not
> rich enough to throw money down the toilet which in my mind I would be
> doing by being required to purchase something that I will use perhaps
> 1% of.

Then don't buy a TiVo. I really don't know why you keep hammering away
at this. If you don't want a TiVo, don't buy one. No one's forcing a
TiVo on you, and I imagine they'd rather not sell you a TiVo if you're
not going to subscribe to the service. There are DVR alternatives to
TiVo. Your time would be much better spent seeking them out.
Anonymous
July 23, 2005 12:07:45 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Frank wrote:
> Is there any reason why you are so nasty in your reply? Is this the
> way you think you will help new people join the Tivo fold, which will
> presumably pay the "development" costs which apparently is some sort
> of cause with you?

Part of it, I think, is a reaction to your demand that Tivo deliver up a
device "your way", and being angry when they don't. That doesn't excuse
a harsh reply, but it may prompt one. If you don't like or agree with
TIvo's business model (and we've had this discussion here many times),
then you are free to purchase elsewhere, they're far from a monopoly.

> If I buy the hardware, I would think the cost of the hardware
> development is in the price. The cost of developing the guide
> software and incorporated hardware etc. should come from the
> subscription cost, right?

Actually, that's totally incorrect. If Tivo incorporated the entire
hardware and hardware development cost into the hardware price, it would
be so expensive that few people would purchase it, even though it would
drive the subscription price down. So Tivo subsidizes the hardware cost
through the subscription. This lowers the entry price to owning a Tivo,
which enables more people to purchase one. For those that are more
financially capable, they offer a lifetime subscription. The
interesting thing here is that w/ a lifetime subscription, you avoid
monthly subscription prices altogether. This would seem to fit your
requirement, yet you don't want to do that? Why? Too expensive?
Understand that that's much closer to the *real* cost of the hardware
and software and development costs than the subsidized retail price.

>
> If I don't need or want the subscription (because I have no interest
> in the service) why should I be forced to in order to use hardware
> that I legitimately paid for, at least in this specific case?
>
> You don't HAVE to buy Windows to buy a PC. There are alternatives.
> Not exactly apples to apples, but close enough.

Actually if you want an Apples to Apples comparison, then just use
Apple! If you want to buy an Apple computer, you get the Apple
operating system. You've paid for both the hardware and software
development costs whether you want to or not. No, there isn't a
continuing subscription cost, but there isn't for a Tivo either if you
pay lifetime. And it's still cheaper!

Also, the subscription is just for the guide service. Tivo "rents" you
their software, part of which includes the guide info. You don't own
the software. If you want to format the harddrive, you are welcome to
keep your hardware. Just don't expect it to actually do anything. But
if you want to write your own software and OS for it, go ahead.

> Again, all I want to use this for is time shifting, which is what I
> use my 2 VCR's for. I don't really care if you look down upon me or
> think I am some sort of nebbish for not yet being "enlightened" to the
> wonders of a Tivo and what it could do for me. If buying this
> equipment isn't going to fit my current requirements at this time I
> just won't be making a purchase right now.

And it won't fit your requirements in the future, unless you are willing
to pay lifetime or you drop your requirements for no subscription. This
is Tivo's business model, and it's unlikely to change. If it does not
agree with you, then shop elsewhere. I'm not telling you that you're
wrong, or stupid, or incorrect. Only that Tivo doesn't offer what you want.

>
> As I said, there is no urgent need for me to stop using my VCR's, at
> least for now and the near future. They do exactly what I need them
> to do without requiring me to purchase a subscription.
>
> I am not going to pay for a Tivo subscription to accomplish what I
> want to accomplish, I find no reason to do so. If I were going to
> utilize the listings I would have no problem paying for them.
>
> I am fine with inputting the dates and times of the events I want to
> record manually, I don't need or want to select them from a guide. I
> miss DOS, maybe that is why I am of this mind set.
>
> I work for my money, and while I am far from poor, I am certainly not
> rich enough to throw money down the toilet which in my mind I would be
> doing by being required to purchase something that I will use perhaps
> 1% of.

I think you will find that most people who have used Tivo products will
tell you that the sum of its features are much greater than their
individual benefits added together. For most, it takes using a Tivo for
several weeks before the benefits are fully apparent, and it's not
something easily explained.

I personally *hate* running monthly charges. I would much rather pay a
larger upfront fee instead, because I know businesses use monthly fees
to get more money out of people without their realizing it. But even I
think Tivo is worth it. And the lifetime sub is there if you *really*
want to avoid the monthly fee (*lots* of people buy it).

Randy S.
Anonymous
July 24, 2005 9:22:10 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

>If I buy the hardware, I would think the cost of the hardware
>development is in the price. The cost of developing the guide
>software and incorporated hardware etc. should come from the
>subscription cost, right?

No, it doesn't HAVE to be marketed that way, and it often isn't.
You can put all the development cost as well as the hardware cost
into the subscription (see cell phone marketing) or you could put
all the development cost as well as the cost of running the service
into the hardware (some automobiles are being sold with all maintenance
included except "gas and tires", some non-TiVo PVRs have a guide
with no subscription cost, and TiVo has the alternative of lifetime
subscription).

I don't think there is a clear division of "guide software" vs.
"non-guide software" development costs. Nor is there a clear
division of "guide-related incorporated hardware" (IS there any?)
I don't think the auto companies divide out "smoking-related interior
design cost", either, and I've never heard of a car sold without
ashtrays, even though there are plenty of non-smoking families.

>If I don't need or want the subscription (because I have no interest
>in the service) why should I be forced to in order to use hardware
>that I legitimately paid for, at least in this specific case?

If what you want is a sufficiently small share of the market, there
may be no one willing to market a product exactly like you want,
or maybe not even something remotely close. For example, having
two tuners is more of a high-end feature, and no guide is a low-end
(lack of) feature. You may well not find them in the same product.

On the other hand, a company's marketing plan is not a law. If I
want to buy TiVos to smash roaches, TiVo can't force me to buy a
subscription (clearly pointless for the intended use) unless they
won't sell me the hardware without a contract that includes one
(which is how cell phone companies deal with the issue). But TiVo
doesn't want to force me to sign a contract when I buy a TiVo (and
the retail stores probably wouldn't stock them if they had to enforce
that).


>You don't HAVE to buy Windows to buy a PC. There are alternatives.
>Not exactly apples to apples, but close enough.

But if you want certain applications, or certain hardware which has
only Windows drivers and no drivers for the alternative OSs, you
may be stuck with it.

>Again, all I want to use this for is time shifting, which is what I
>use my 2 VCR's for. I don't really care if you look down upon me or
>think I am some sort of nebbish for not yet being "enlightened" to the
>wonders of a Tivo and what it could do for me.

I do know that time-and-channel recording has a fairly high malfunction
rate (because I used it a lot in the past, as you do now) due to
short-notice screwing around with the schedule by TV stations and/or
networks. Now, even the TiVo guide screws up (unavoidably) when
the notice is too short or nonexistent. And it doesn't protect
against power failures that prevent recording. But using the guide
has cut the malfunction rate way down.

>If buying this
>equipment isn't going to fit my current requirements at this time I
>just won't be making a purchase right now.
>
>As I said, there is no urgent need for me to stop using my VCR's, at
>least for now and the near future. They do exactly what I need them
>to do without requiring me to purchase a subscription.

The urgent need may be approaching. Do your VCRs have digital
tuners? Can they control another box that does have a digital
tuner? If the answer to both questions is NO, you may soon (at the
analog shutoff in a few years) be reduced to "time with manually
set channel" recording. It's going to be a problem with my TiVo,
also, unless someone can teach it how to control a digital receiver.

>I am not going to pay for a Tivo subscription to accomplish what I
>want to accomplish, I find no reason to do so. If I were going to
>utilize the listings I would have no problem paying for them.
>
>I am fine with inputting the dates and times of the events I want to
>record manually, I don't need or want to select them from a guide. I
>miss DOS, maybe that is why I am of this mind set.
>
>I work for my money, and while I am far from poor, I am certainly not
>rich enough to throw money down the toilet which in my mind I would be
>doing by being required to purchase something that I will use perhaps
>1% of.

To some extent you will always be stuck purchasing something you
don't use. In my case, consider ashtrays in cars. Those
don't even have a separate price tag.

Gordon L. Burditt
Anonymous
July 24, 2005 9:22:11 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

In article <11e69c2do29g5db@corp.supernews.com>, Gordon Burditt
<gordonb.m6uc0@burditt.org> wrote:

> To some extent you will always be stuck purchasing something you
> don't use. In my case, consider ashtrays in cars. Those
> don't even have a separate price tag.

They're pretty good for holding change and toll receipts. People used
to complain about having to have the cigarette lighter, too, but it
serves as a convenient power tap.

Then again, it's only my wife and I, but they made us pay for the back
seat.
Anonymous
July 24, 2005 11:09:59 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

>>To some extent you will always be stuck purchasing something you
>>don't use. In my case, consider ashtrays in cars. Those
>>don't even have a separate price tag.
>
>
> They're pretty good for holding change and toll receipts. People used
> to complain about having to have the cigarette lighter, too, but it
> serves as a convenient power tap.
>
> Then again, it's only my wife and I, but they made us pay for the back
> seat.

Well, it's only my Fiancee and I, but we've found a use for the back
seat a couple of times. ;-)

Randy S.
Anonymous
July 24, 2005 2:00:25 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

In article <dbvsu8$1392$3@spnode25.nerdc.ufl.edu>, Randy S.
<rswitt@NOSPAM.com> wrote:

> >>To some extent you will always be stuck purchasing something you
> >>don't use. In my case, consider ashtrays in cars. Those
> >>don't even have a separate price tag.
> >
> >
> > They're pretty good for holding change and toll receipts. People used
> > to complain about having to have the cigarette lighter, too, but it
> > serves as a convenient power tap.
> >
> > Then again, it's only my wife and I, but they made us pay for the back
> > seat.
>
> Well, it's only my Fiancee and I, but we've found a use for the back
> seat a couple of times. ;-)


Hey, we were young once. Just not recently!
Anonymous
July 24, 2005 2:22:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

On 2005-07-23, Randy S. <rswitt@NOSPAM.com> wrote:
> Frank wrote:
>
>> If I don't need or want the subscription (because I have no interest
>> in the service) why should I be forced to in order to use hardware
>> that I legitimately paid for, at least in this specific case?
>
> Also, the subscription is just for the guide service. Tivo "rents" you
> their software, part of which includes the guide info. You don't own
> the software. If you want to format the harddrive, you are welcome to
> keep your hardware. Just don't expect it to actually do anything. But
> if you want to write your own software and OS for it, go ahead.

One problem Frank appears to be having is thinking the subscription is
only tied to "guide data" and other high-end services. I think one would
be better off thinking of the subscription as the fee you pay to be able
to use the software on the box. You bought the hardware sure enough and
you can do anything you want with it. But, if you want to use any of the
software at all, you need to pay for a subscription. This even involves
just using it as a VCR and doing simple time/channel recordings. That
still involves using the software. It's all or nothing - either you get
to use all their software or none of it (DTiVo being a slight exception
not directly related to this issue). It's not TiVo's fault you don't want
to use all of their features but you do want to use some of their features
and for that, you have to pay.

--
This is my .sig
Anonymous
July 24, 2005 2:22:10 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

> One problem Frank appears to be having is thinking the subscription is
> only tied to "guide data" and other high-end services. I think one would
> be better off thinking of the subscription as the fee you pay to be able
> to use the software on the box. You bought the hardware sure enough and
> you can do anything you want with it. But, if you want to use any of the
> software at all, you need to pay for a subscription. This even involves
> just using it as a VCR and doing simple time/channel recordings. That
> still involves using the software. It's all or nothing - either you get
> to use all their software or none of it (DTiVo being a slight exception
> not directly related to this issue). It's not TiVo's fault you don't want
> to use all of their features but you do want to use some of their features
> and for that, you have to pay.
>

Very true. Unfortunately, I think the limited availability of Tivo
Basic (on DVD recorder integrated boxes) adds confusion to that concept.

Randy S.
Anonymous
July 24, 2005 11:35:15 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

>One problem Frank appears to be having is thinking the subscription is
>only tied to "guide data" and other high-end services. I think one would

On a Series 1 Standalone TiVo, it *IS*.

>be better off thinking of the subscription as the fee you pay to be able
>to use the software on the box. You bought the hardware sure enough and
>you can do anything you want with it. But, if you want to use any of the
>software at all, you need to pay for a subscription.

Then why was I able to buy the box without signing a contract for
a subscription? If TiVo wants to sell it that way, it has to *SELL
IT THAT WAY*. Otherwise it's just wishful thinking on TiVo's part.

Does the software license for a Series 2 actually SAY I have to
have a subscription to use it?

>This even involves
>just using it as a VCR and doing simple time/channel recordings. That
>still involves using the software. It's all or nothing - either you get
>to use all their software or none of it (DTiVo being a slight exception
>not directly related to this issue). It's not TiVo's fault you don't want
>to use all of their features but you do want to use some of their features
>and for that, you have to pay.

It's TiVo's fault the license does not say you have to have a
subscription to use it, and that they'll sell you a TiVo without
having you sign a contract for a subscription. A marketing plan
is not a law or a contract.

Gordon L. Burditt
Anonymous
July 24, 2005 11:53:46 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

On 2005-07-24, Gordon Burditt <gordonb.qx2a6@burditt.org> wrote:
>>One problem Frank appears to be having is thinking the subscription is
>>only tied to "guide data" and other high-end services. I think one would
>
> On a Series 1 Standalone TiVo, it *IS*.

*sigh*, yes there are a few exceptions. TiVo Basic that comes with some
of the DVD TiVos is another one. That accounts for a very small
percentage of the machines out there. And to even address your comment,
only ~certain~ series 1 SATiVos have this functionality, not all.

>>be better off thinking of the subscription as the fee you pay to be able
>>to use the software on the box. You bought the hardware sure enough and
>>you can do anything you want with it. But, if you want to use any of the
>>software at all, you need to pay for a subscription.
>
> Then why was I able to buy the box without signing a contract for
> a subscription?

Um, because you don't need a subscription to own the hardware.

> If TiVo wants to sell it that way, it has to *SELL
> IT THAT WAY*. Otherwise it's just wishful thinking on TiVo's part.

Um, they do sell it that way. If someone is buying the TiVo for the
hardware, I don't think they're making a wise buying decision since you
can get most of the parts yourself for cheaper. But, you can certainly
buy just the hardware if that's what you want.

> Does the software license for a Series 2 actually SAY I have to
> have a subscription to use it?

For the software licenses that you have to pay for, yes. For the software
licenses you don't have to pay for, no (like the S1 SATiVos or TiVo Basic
boxes).

>>This even involves
>>just using it as a VCR and doing simple time/channel recordings. That
>>still involves using the software. It's all or nothing - either you get
>>to use all their software or none of it (DTiVo being a slight exception
>>not directly related to this issue). It's not TiVo's fault you don't want
>>to use all of their features but you do want to use some of their features
>>and for that, you have to pay.
>
> It's TiVo's fault the license does not say you have to have a
> subscription to use it, and that they'll sell you a TiVo without
> having you sign a contract for a subscription. A marketing plan
> is not a law or a contract.

I don't understand your point. The TiVo Service Agreement does say if you
use the software you acknowledge and agree that you are a user of the TiVo
service and are bound by the terms of that Agreement.

Just because you buy the box does NOT give you a legal right to access
TiVo's IP in terms of the software on the box. Likewise, you are under NO
obligation to pay for the software if you aren't going to use.

What part of this is in question?

--
This is my .sig
Anonymous
July 25, 2005 12:30:54 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

>>>One problem Frank appears to be having is thinking the subscription is
>>>only tied to "guide data" and other high-end services. I think one would
>>
>> On a Series 1 Standalone TiVo, it *IS*.
>
>*sigh*, yes there are a few exceptions. TiVo Basic that comes with some
>of the DVD TiVos is another one. That accounts for a very small
>percentage of the machines out there. And to even address your comment,
>only ~certain~ series 1 SATiVos have this functionality, not all.

Tivo's definition of the TiVo Service on their own website (see
TiVo Service Agreement on http://www.tivo.com/ ) seems to limit it
to guide information, season pass, wishlist, smart recording
(adjusting to schedule changes), suggestions, and parental controls.

Quote:

3. The TiVo Service. The TiVo service consists of program guide
information and the following features: (a) Season Pass - automatically
finds and records every episode of a series all season long; (b)
WishList - finds and records programs that feature your favorite
actor, director, team or even topic; (c) Smart Recording - automatically
detects program line-up changes for your cable/ satellite provider
and adjusts recording times so you don't have to worry about the
details; (d) TiVo Suggestions - TiVo can be programmed to suggest
and auto-record programs that may match your interests; and (e)
Parental Controls-lock channels or set ratings limits based on
content. Each of these features is part of the "TiVo service." The
"TiVo service" means these features and any additional features and
functionality of the TiVo DVR that TiVo may, at its discretion and
from time to time, offer.

End quote.

Later sections talk about the networked functions and TiVoToGo.

This does not include using such features as watching TV, manually
changing channels, pausing live TV, and time-and-channel recording
as part of the TiVo service.

Incidentally, can a Series 2 pause live TV, manually change channels,
or let you view TV without a subscription?

>I don't understand your point. The TiVo Service Agreement does say if you
>use the software you acknowledge and agree that you are a user of the TiVo
>service and are bound by the terms of that Agreement.

No, it says if you use the *SERVICE* you agree that you are a user of the
TiVo service and are bound by the terms of that agreement.

Gordon L. Burditt
Anonymous
July 25, 2005 12:40:44 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

On 2005-07-24, Gordon Burditt <gordonb.vo5ne@burditt.org> wrote:
>>>>One problem Frank appears to be having is thinking the subscription is
>>>>only tied to "guide data" and other high-end services. I think one would
>>>
>>> On a Series 1 Standalone TiVo, it *IS*.
>>
>>*sigh*, yes there are a few exceptions. TiVo Basic that comes with some
>>of the DVD TiVos is another one. That accounts for a very small
>>percentage of the machines out there. And to even address your comment,
>>only ~certain~ series 1 SATiVos have this functionality, not all.
>
> Tivo's definition of the TiVo Service on their own website (see
> TiVo Service Agreement on http://www.tivo.com/ ) seems to limit it
> to guide information, season pass, wishlist, smart recording
> (adjusting to schedule changes), suggestions, and parental controls.

You don't believe recording like a VCR falls under "functionality of the
TiVo DVR that TiVo...offer(s)"? I believe it would (obviously IANAL).

> Incidentally, can a Series 2 pause live TV, manually change channels,
> or let you view TV without a subscription?

No.

>>I don't understand your point. The TiVo Service Agreement does say if you
>>use the software you acknowledge and agree that you are a user of the TiVo
>>service and are bound by the terms of that Agreement.
>
> No, it says if you use the *SERVICE* you agree that you are a user of the
> TiVo service and are bound by the terms of that agreement.

Using their software IS using their service. The software isn't yours,
it's TiVos and they are providing it for your use as a service.

--
This is my .sig
July 25, 2005 1:08:23 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

gordonb.vo5ne@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) wrote in news:11e7ujuaf3ap322
@corp.supernews.com:

> content. Each of these features is part of the "TiVo service." The

Which part of 'part of' confused you? This may help:

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=part

Your claim that TiVo is 'limiting' the definition is clearly false, your own
quote destroys your own words.

--
Minister of All Things Digital & Electronic, and Holder of Past Knowledge
stile99@email.com. Cabal# 24601-fnord | Sleep is irrelevant.
I speak for no one but myself, and |Caffeine will be assimilated.
no one else speaks for me. O- | Decaf is futile.
Anonymous
July 25, 2005 1:09:26 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

> Is there any reason why you are so nasty in your reply?

There's nothing nasty about it, you want something the Tivo doesn't offer.
That you have other granidiose ideas about what is or isn't realistic
doesn't mean anyone in their right mind would try to sustain a business that
way.

The Tivo won't do what you want, question answered.
July 25, 2005 6:15:05 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

>>
>> If I buy the hardware, I would think the cost of the hardware
>> development is in the price. The cost of developing the guide
>> software and incorporated hardware etc. should come from the
>> subscription cost, right?
>>
>> If I don't need or want the subscription (because I have no interest
>> in the service) why should I be forced to in order to use hardware
>> that I legitimately paid for, at least in this specific case?
>
>They sell you their razor at a loss because they want to keep selling
>you their blades at a profit. This is not a complicated concept.

No, it's not, but not a valid comparison. Tivo hardware can be
purchased by several different manufacturers.

If I buy a razor I know I need blades. The razor is useless without
them. However, there are 3rd party blades available that are
compatible available at a discount if you so choose. So there are
"alternatives."

I want an "alternative" to purchasing the sub service.

>
>You're insisting that a company that makes a machine you clearly don't
>want follow an amateurish business model of your own devising simply
>because you think things should be that way. The important thing to
>most TiVo users is not the machine, but the service. I think it's well
>worth the price. You don't. You should seek out and buy a machine
>that will do what you want it to do the way you want to do it, or just
>keep on using your VCRs.

What is the "amateurish business model" I devised? I am simply a
consumer (a stubborn one) who doesn't want to play nice like these
companies want me to. F 'em.

Your last sentence sums up the situation perfectly I must say. I am
going to be doing just that. I will be posting an ending to this saga
by week's end and hopefully it will help others in my situation who
have stumbled across this newsgroup.

>
>> You don't HAVE to buy Windows to buy a PC. There are alternatives.
>> Not exactly apples to apples, but close enough.
>
>That's not close at all. In fact, it's nowhere. No one is selling
>their computers at a loss so that you'll buy their OS.

So it is your contention that the TIVO hardware is being sold at a
loss? Please cite your source for this contention if that is what you
are claiming.

>
>> Again, all I want to use this for is time shifting, which is what I
>> use my 2 VCR's for. I don't really care if you look down upon me or
>> think I am some sort of nebbish for not yet being "enlightened" to the
>> wonders of a Tivo and what it could do for me. If buying this
>> equipment isn't going to fit my current requirements at this time I
>> just won't be making a purchase right now.
>>
>> As I said, there is no urgent need for me to stop using my VCR's, at
>> least for now and the near future. They do exactly what I need them
>> to do without requiring me to purchase a subscription.
>
>Fine. Go and do that. Have a ball. I did what you're doing for a
>couple of decades. I'm glad I don't have to do it anymore, but that's
>me.

I agree, I am tired of doing it. Video tapes are large and
cumbersome, and the picture quality is terrible. I want to migrate to
DVD, but on MY terms.



Frank - on the internet, where even you can be important
Anonymous
July 25, 2005 11:43:31 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

On 2005-07-25, Frank <Frankma@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> No, it's not, but not a valid comparison. Tivo hardware can be
> purchased by several different manufacturers.
>
> If I buy a razor I know I need blades. The razor is useless without
> them. However, there are 3rd party blades available that are
> compatible available at a discount if you so choose. So there are
> "alternatives."
>
> I want an "alternative" to purchasing the sub service.

If you demand to buy TiVo hardware, then the only alternative to
purchasing a sub service is to write your own software to control the
hardware.

The simpler solution would be to get a non-TiVo DVR that does what you
want.

Or, get a TiVo that has basic service included.


--
This is my .sig
Anonymous
July 25, 2005 5:24:29 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

In article <hh09e1dd63fq5aieaed8bb6higeft6fnut@4ax.com>, Frank wrote:
>>
>>That's not close at all. In fact, it's nowhere. No one is selling
>>their computers at a loss so that you'll buy their OS.
>
> So it is your contention that the TIVO hardware is being sold at a
> loss? Please cite your source for this contention if that is what you
> are claiming.
> Frank - on the internet, where even you can be important

Last quarterly financial statement of TiVo:
http://a423.g.akamai.net/7/423/1788/3509b471119b56/www....


Hardware revenues 10,526,000
Cost of hardware revenues 5,6422,000

That's not including the $3,638,000 in rebates, or the $8,866,000 in
costs to service the accounts (mostly subscription info), or the
$10,900,000 in research and development, or the general overhead, or the ...

Chris
Anonymous
July 25, 2005 5:31:33 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

In article <slrnde9q0c.c7g.chrisb@balder.sabir.com>, Chris Buckley wrote:
> In article <hh09e1dd63fq5aieaed8bb6higeft6fnut@4ax.com>, Frank wrote:
>>>
>>>That's not close at all. In fact, it's nowhere. No one is selling
>>>their computers at a loss so that you'll buy their OS.
>>
>> So it is your contention that the TIVO hardware is being sold at a
>> loss? Please cite your source for this contention if that is what you
>> are claiming.
>> Frank - on the internet, where even you can be important
>
> Last quarterly financial statement of TiVo:
> http://a423.g.akamai.net/7/423/1788/3509b471119b56/www....
>
>
> Hardware revenues 10,526,000
> Cost of hardware revenues 5,6422,000
>
> That's not including the $3,638,000 in rebates, or the $8,866,000 in
> costs to service the accounts (mostly subscription info), or the
> $10,900,000 in research and development, or the general overhead, or the ...


Whoops, in copying the figures I mistyped and left out a very important '1':
It's
Hardware revenues 10,526,000
Cost of hardware revenues 15,642,000

Sorry about that!
Chris
July 25, 2005 11:02:13 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Frank <Frankma@comcast.net> wrote in news:hh09e1dd63fq5aieaed8bb6higeft6fnut@
4ax.com:

> I want an "alternative" to purchasing the sub service.

Yes, you've made it clear you don't want a TiVo. By standing in the middle
of a TiVo group and loudly proclaiming how stupid TiVo is for not building
exactly what you want and giving it to you free, you're saying a lot more
about yourself than you are about TiVo's business model.

You don't want a TiVo. You never did. Thank you, drive through.

--
Minister of All Things Digital & Electronic, and Holder of Past Knowledge
stile99@email.com. Cabal# 24601-fnord | Sleep is irrelevant.
I speak for no one but myself, and |Caffeine will be assimilated.
no one else speaks for me. O- | Decaf is futile.
Anonymous
July 25, 2005 11:48:35 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Howard" <stile99@email..com> wrote in message
news:Xns969E8ED40F513stile@129.250.170.92...
> ...Thank you, drive through.

Back to that village so desperately missing it's idiot?
Anonymous
July 26, 2005 10:08:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Frank,

This is what I do. I have a Series1 Tivo and a Series2 Tivo with season
passes set on both Tivo's. On the rare occasion that three shows are on at
the same time I can also record to my GoVideo's VCR. Harmony helped me set
up everything to operate from just one controller even marking the Harmony
display Series1 and the other button Series2.

Rich


"Frank" <Frankma@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:9k8od1porilr7f1fasl3on09u5733v0sbl@4ax.com...
> Hey all.
>
> I currently use a VCR to time shift and I've had enough. I have
> regular basic cable at the moment and that's all I want.
>
> So that is my current set up.
>
> I want to buy a Tivo player with a built in hard drive that can then
> burn those shows to DVD. Money is no object as long as it will do
> what I need it to do.
>
> I need one that can record two shows together as often there are two
> shows I want to record that are on at the same time.
>
> Otherwise, I would have to buy two Tivo players and I don't really
> want to have to do that.
>
> If this feature isn't currently available would it be in the near
> future? Is there a technical reason why it isn't available?
>
> Oh, and I am partial to Pioneer DVD gear. I have a high end Pioneer
> DVD player that I'm very happy with.
>
> Any thoughts or suggestions that might be able to help me would be
> appreciated. Thanks to anyone and everyone.
>
>
>
> Frank - on the internet, where even you can be important
>
July 26, 2005 10:31:16 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Rich Hagan" <RichJH@pacbell.net> wrote in
news:c_uFe.697$iM7.356@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com:

> This is what I do. I have a Series1 Tivo and a Series2 Tivo with season
> passes set on both Tivo's. On the rare occasion that three shows are on
> at the same time I can also record to my GoVideo's VCR. Harmony helped
> me set up everything to operate from just one controller even marking
> the Harmony display Series1 and the other button Series2.

Very good advice, Rich. Hopefully somebody that needs it/is looking for
it will find it. Our friend Frank here, however, never wanted a TiVo at
all. He came in with a list of things he wanted and said he wanted it all
in one box (and that money was not at issue). It was pointed out that
what he was asking for was not available all in one box, but if money is
not an issue, why not just get two? His excuse changed to space...he
doesn't want the clutter. It was pointed out he can set the two boxes up
on two different TVs and transfer shows back and forth if he liked, his
excuse became that he doesn't want to pay subscription fees, they should
just be rolled into the cost of the box. It was pointed out he was free
to get a lifetime subscription, which WOULD bring the cost of the box much
closer to the actual cost, and he quickly degenerated from there. His
real agenda became clear...he wants everything done exactly his way (NO
variations accepted), and even though money is not an issue, he does not
want to pay for it.

He's happy using his VCRs. We're happy with him using his VCRs. He's
promised to stop trolling after one more huge effort later in the week,
and we're all looking forward to that.

--
Minister of All Things Digital & Electronic, and Holder of Past Knowledge
stile99@email.com. Cabal# 24601-fnord | Sleep is irrelevant.
I speak for no one but myself, and |Caffeine will be assimilated.
no one else speaks for me. O- | Decaf is futile.
Anonymous
July 27, 2005 12:06:52 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

<<I want to migrate to DVD, but on MY terms.>>

Have you considered a PC-based system, such as http://www.gbpvr.com ?

John Cowart
!