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Why STILL no UNDELETE??????

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August 5, 2005 9:13:14 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

I cannot for the life of me fathom why this is STILL not a feature. How
hard can this be?

A google search shows posts going back several years discussing this
lack of functionality. I'm not up to hacking my Tivo just to get it to
do something so simple.

Also, they made a big deal out of realeasing an update to Tivo Desktop
for Mac six months ago, only to have it NOT COMPATIBLE with the new OS
that was released two months later and had been in the works (and
available to developers!!!!!) for MONTHS AND MONTHS.

ARGHHHH!!!!!

More about : undelete

Anonymous
August 5, 2005 9:13:15 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Bunny" <Bunny@bunny.com> wrote in message
news:K6NIe.5859$%w.1912@twister.nyc.rr.com...
>I cannot for the life of me fathom why this is STILL not a feature. How
>hard can this be?

Because Tivo does not need to correct your mistakes. You should accept
responibilty and move on.
August 5, 2005 9:51:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Bunny <Bunny@bunny.com> wrote in news:K6NIe.5859$%w.1912
@twister.nyc.rr.com:

> I cannot for the life of me fathom why this is STILL not a feature. How
> hard can this be?

How far along are you in writing the code?

As you say, how hard can it be? Get crackin'.

> A google search shows posts going back several years discussing this
> lack of functionality. I'm not up to hacking my Tivo just to get it to
> do something so simple.

How is this a lack of functionality? At most it is a 'lack' of a feature a
very very very small number of people have expressed the desire for. When
you delete something, you're given a chance to confirm it first. If you
think you might want it back, answer no.

--
Minister of All Things Digital & Electronic, and Holder of Past Knowledge
stile99@email.com. Cabal# 24601-fnord | Sleep is irrelevant.
I speak for no one but myself, and |Caffeine will be assimilated.
no one else speaks for me. O- | Decaf is futile.
Related resources
Anonymous
August 5, 2005 9:51:41 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Howard (stile99@email.com) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
> > I cannot for the life of me fathom why this is STILL not a feature. How
> > hard can this be?
>
> How far along are you in writing the code?
>
> As you say, how hard can it be? Get crackin'.

Well, it's already been done as a hack, so I don't think it's *that* hard.

--
Jeff Rife |
| http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/Dilbert/Win95CatOnMonitor....
August 5, 2005 11:03:12 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Do a little google, Howard, and you'll see that it's NOT a "very very
very small number of people" that want this. There have been a ton of
requests for this going back to when Tivo was first introduced. And
since it's widely available in various hacks I'd say it would be pretty
darned easy for the Tivo folks to include it in their software.

Go back to your world where you never make mistakes, and leave the rest
of us to the real one.
August 6, 2005 12:16:25 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Bunny <Bunny@bunny.com> wrote in news:QJOIe.301$ZG2.271013
@twister.nyc.rr.com:

> Do a little google, Howard, and you'll see that it's NOT a "very very
> very small number of people" that want this. There have been a ton of

Ok. I did. So I typed 'tivo undelete' (no quotes, to get a much larger
pool of results) and got 6,800 results.

6,800 out of 3,000,000 customers. Wow, .2 percent. And that is assuming
each individual result is one distinct individual person saying "I want an
undelete feature". Unlikely at best.

I stand corrected. It's not a very very very small number of people, it's
a very very very very very very very very very miniscule, statistically
insignificant number of people.

--
Minister of All Things Digital & Electronic, and Holder of Past Knowledge
stile99@email.com. Cabal# 24601-fnord | Sleep is irrelevant.
I speak for no one but myself, and |Caffeine will be assimilated.
no one else speaks for me. O- | Decaf is futile.
Anonymous
August 6, 2005 1:30:06 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

In article <Xns96A99B641D8BDstile@129.250.170.93>, Howard
<stile99@email.com> wrote:

> Bunny <Bunny@bunny.com> wrote in news:QJOIe.301$ZG2.271013
> @twister.nyc.rr.com:
>
> > Do a little google, Howard, and you'll see that it's NOT a "very very
> > very small number of people" that want this. There have been a ton of
>
> Ok. I did. So I typed 'tivo undelete' (no quotes, to get a much larger
> pool of results) and got 6,800 results.
>
> 6,800 out of 3,000,000 customers. Wow, .2 percent. And that is assuming
> each individual result is one distinct individual person saying "I want an
> undelete feature". Unlikely at best.
>
> I stand corrected. It's not a very very very small number of people, it's
> a very very very very very very very very very miniscule, statistically
> insignificant number of people.

Number of TiVo customers who are interested in undelete as a feature is
completely different from number of Google hits on 'tivo undelete.'
You're dividing apples and oranges, so you don't end up with a percent
of anything.

Not all TiVo customers who are interested in some feature would mention
it on a web page. Those who do might do so on a forum page that has
many customers expressing a desire for such a feature on the same page.
Of course, some web pages that have the words "tivo" and "undelete"
have nothing to do with a customer who wants that feature.

I understand that you were just responding to Bunny's statement about
doing a Google search, but as someone who teaches statistics, I have to
say something!
Anonymous
August 6, 2005 2:16:57 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

On 2005-08-05, Bunny <Bunny@bunny.com> wrote:
> I cannot for the life of me fathom why this is STILL not a feature. How
> hard can this be?
>
> A google search shows posts going back several years discussing this
> lack of functionality. I'm not up to hacking my Tivo just to get it to
> do something so simple.

Hacking your TiVo is seriously a trivial task so if you really wanted the
feature, it's up to you to get it. There are lots of other features you
get by hacking too so to me, it's a no brainer to hack it ASAP.

I've had a hacked TiVo for....gosh...years now and I've used the undelete
feature ~maybe~ twice. As others have said in the thread, don't delete
what you don't want deleted. You can move around when things expire, you
can mark things to never be deleted, it asks you "are you sure" before you
delete things, etc. plus keep in mind this is just TV we're talking about.
I think people are just too used to Microsoft's garbage can idea instead
of taking credit for their own actions.

--
This is my .sig
August 6, 2005 2:39:55 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Lot-o-fun <lotofun61@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:050820051730074786%lotofun61@yahoo.com:

> I understand that you were just responding to Bunny's statement about
> doing a Google search,

I'm glad you said this...it takes away the need to point out that I'm not
the one that proposed a connection between a Google search and the number
of people wanting a feature. I merely pointed out that if one DOES want to
make this connection, then, based on the Google search, the number of
people who want this feature isn't enough to warrant a blip on the radar...

However, if Bunny wants to continue to insist there IS a relation, one
would point out that 'tivo undelete' gets less than a tenth of the results
'tivo free space' (again with the disclaimer that each individual result is
unlikely at best to be one individual person requesting the feature).

> but as someone who teaches statistics, I have to
> say something!

Not that I am trying to trap you into anything, but as someone involved
with statistics, isn't .2 percent more of an aberration rather than a
statistic? I mean, in a REALLY GOOD sampling you might get as low as a 3%
(plus or minus) margin of error. 6,800 out of a sample of 3,000,000 is
nothing.

--
Minister of All Things Digital & Electronic, and Holder of Past Knowledge
stile99@email.com. Cabal# 24601-fnord | Sleep is irrelevant.
I speak for no one but myself, and |Caffeine will be assimilated.
no one else speaks for me. O- | Decaf is futile.
Anonymous
August 6, 2005 5:36:20 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

In article <Xns96A9B3B9152D7stile@129.250.170.93>, Howard
<stile99@email.com> wrote:

> Lot-o-fun <lotofun61@yahoo.com> wrote in
> news:050820051730074786%lotofun61@yahoo.com:
>
> > but as someone who teaches statistics, I have to
> > say something!
>
> Not that I am trying to trap you into anything, but as someone involved
> with statistics, isn't .2 percent more of an aberration rather than a
> statistic? I mean, in a REALLY GOOD sampling you might get as low as a 3%
> (plus or minus) margin of error. 6,800 out of a sample of 3,000,000 is
> nothing.

My point was that your dividing 6800/3000000 doesn't really give a
percentage, since the 6800 and the 3000000 are counts of different
kinds of things. Your statement would have some statistical meaning if
you asked all 3000000 customers whether they cared about undeleting and
6800 said yes. But the 6800 is web pages, not customers, and even if
it were customers, then it would be 6800 out of customers who have the
means and savvy and interest of posting something on a web page about
the undelete feature. There might be lots of customers who would love
this feature but have never expressed this anywhere that Google would
pick it up.
Anonymous
August 8, 2005 5:55:48 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Howard" <stile99@email.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96A982D8D980stile@129.250.170.91...
SNIP

> How is this a lack of functionality? At most it is a 'lack' of a feature
> a
> very very very small number of people have expressed the desire for. When
> you delete something, you're given a chance to confirm it first. If you
> think you might want it back, answer no.
>
In all fairness, Tivo sometimes deletes things on its own unless you
manually intervene (by specifying to keep something indefinitely or
whatever).

Also, just because a small number of people took the time to express a
desire for a feature doesn't mean it's not a good idea.

Cheers
TC
Anonymous
August 8, 2005 6:01:51 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Mike Hunt" <in2sheep@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:11f7papqlmutfc4@corp.supernews.com...
> On 2005-08-05, Bunny <Bunny@bunny.com> wrote:
SNIP

>
> I've had a hacked TiVo for....gosh...years now and I've used the undelete
> feature ~maybe~ twice. As others have said in the thread, don't delete
> what you don't want deleted. You can move around when things expire, you
> can mark things to never be deleted, it asks you "are you sure" before you
> delete things, etc. plus keep in mind this is just TV we're talking about.
> I think people are just too used to Microsoft's garbage can idea instead
> of taking credit for their own actions.
>

Sometimes it's not an action you have taken as much as it's an action you
haven't taken. Tivo will delete things UNLESS you specifically tell it not
to do so. This can be problematic in households where more than one person
has access to the Tivo. For example, I lost a 6 episode mini-series recently
because I didn't realize that they were up for deletion and my wife told
Tivo to record a bunch of new stuff.

Remember Tivo is supposed to unchain you from your TV set. It would be nice,
on those rare occasions, to have this feature (built-in to Tivo and not
requireing a hack to get them).

Cheers
TC
August 8, 2005 6:49:03 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Tony Clark" <curiousgeorge1964@hotmail.com> wrote in news:EYyJe.2829$WD.1103
@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net:

> In all fairness, Tivo sometimes deletes things on its own unless you
> manually intervene (by specifying to keep something indefinitely or
> whatever).

You DO realize that when TiVo deletes something it is because it is going to
be overwritten not so much as a second later, right? In this event, even an
undelete feature will not help you...it's gone. There's nothing TO undelete.

--
Minister of All Things Digital & Electronic, and Holder of Past Knowledge
stile99@email.com. Cabal# 24601-fnord | Sleep is irrelevant.
I speak for no one but myself, and |Caffeine will be assimilated.
no one else speaks for me. O- | Decaf is futile.
Anonymous
August 8, 2005 12:10:37 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

> Sometimes it's not an action you have taken as much as it's an action you
> haven't taken. Tivo will delete things UNLESS you specifically tell it not
> to do so. This can be problematic in households where more than one person
> has access to the Tivo. For example, I lost a 6 episode mini-series recently
> because I didn't realize that they were up for deletion and my wife told
> Tivo to record a bunch of new stuff.
>
> Remember Tivo is supposed to unchain you from your TV set. It would be nice,
> on those rare occasions, to have this feature (built-in to Tivo and not
> requireing a hack to get them).

But Howard makes an excellent point. It deleted those shows for a
reason, because it *immediately* reused that space. Therefore those
shows would never be able to be *undeleted*.

An undelete feature would pretty much only be usable for those "senior"
moments of users making mistakes. That's why Tivo asks *twice* before
deleteing a show (once when you select it, once again to make sure).

RandY S.
Anonymous
August 8, 2005 1:58:20 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

> But Howard makes an excellent point. It deleted those shows for a
> reason, because it *immediately* reused that space. Therefore those
> shows would never be able to be *undeleted*.

Like any other software it's always a balance between what people think it
does versus what's actually going on. As well as the difference between
what people think they WANT it to do versus what's practical for the widest
audience.

People that have used a Tivo 'for a while' and those that understand
software will pretty easily recognize that some of the stuff is done in a
particular way for straightforward, if quite complex, reasons. Those new to
Tivo or just not grasping the complexities are sometimes befuddled by it.
No insult to their intelligence intended, there's just more going on in
there than seems obvious at the start.

When you consider that the software has to do in order to record it's really
not too much of a surprise to see why things like undelete and free space
aren't already present. Balancing between placements in the season passes
list, recording later broadcasts of conflict based on it, suggestions, free
space, managing deletion of excess or old episodes and manual recordings...
it's a wonder it works as well as it does.

I think one point most folks miss is the need to have as big a hard drive
(or drives) in there as possible. A lot of the issues with multiple people
using a Tivo can be greatly minimized by not have too small a drive. The
stock 40 hour units are really not suitable for anything other than the most
basic of uses. New users will tend to record "more" than they actually
watch (the hoarding tendency) and multiple new users only makes it that much
worse. Trying to do that on a tiny drive while also learning to use it is
asking for trouble. But, of course, larger drives cost more and
sales/marketing are trying to push units as inexpensively as possible.

This isn't made any easier by DirecTV refusing to implement MRV. They'd
sell more units and more subscriptions by making it possible for a household
to have the ability to combine the double tuners across multiple units. One
for each 'family purpose' would be a tremendous benefit. But hey, that
would make sense and DirecTV doesn't seem to excel in that area...
Anonymous
August 8, 2005 4:56:21 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Howard" <stile99@email.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96ABDDF9179FAstile@129.250.170.93...
> "Tony Clark" <curiousgeorge1964@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:EYyJe.2829$WD.1103
> @newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net:
>
>> In all fairness, Tivo sometimes deletes things on its own unless you
>> manually intervene (by specifying to keep something indefinitely or
>> whatever).
>
> You DO realize that when TiVo deletes something it is because it is going to
> be overwritten not so much as a second later, right? In this event, even an
> undelete feature will not help you...it's gone. There's nothing TO
> undelete.

Some people (a lot of people?) delete things as they watch them. That allows
Tivo to actually record suggestions...if you let Tivo delete shows as it needs
space, you will never have any suggestions because all of your space will be
used for requested recordings.

Ken
Anonymous
August 8, 2005 5:03:37 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Mike Hunt" <in2sheep@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:11f7papqlmutfc4@corp.supernews.com...
>
> I've had a hacked TiVo for....gosh...years now and I've used the undelete
> feature ~maybe~ twice. As others have said in the thread, don't delete
> what you don't want deleted. You can move around when things expire, you
> can mark things to never be deleted, it asks you "are you sure" before you
> delete things, etc. plus keep in mind this is just TV we're talking about.
> I think people are just too used to Microsoft's garbage can idea instead
> of taking credit for their own actions.

I delete things as I watch them, so that only shows I haven't watched are
saved on my Tivo. Occasionally I'll want to undelete something, not because I
accidentally deleted it, but because someone else asks to see it the next day,
and I no longer have it.

Ken
Anonymous
August 8, 2005 5:09:13 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Randy S." <rswitt@NOSPAM.com> wrote in message
news:D d7i3u$vuq$1@spnode25.nerdc.ufl.edu...
>
> But Howard makes an excellent point. It deleted those shows for a reason,
> because it *immediately* reused that space. Therefore those shows would
> never be able to be *undeleted*.
>
> An undelete feature would pretty much only be usable for those "senior"
> moments of users making mistakes. That's why Tivo asks *twice* before
> deleteing a show (once when you select it, once again to make sure).

Not necessarily so, there are a number of occasions where Tivo will delete a
show where it could safely not reuse the space immediately. If you have a
Keep At Most limit on a season pass it will delete old shows without needing
the space. Also, if you delete shows after you finish watching them, there
could be quite a bit of free space on the drive that could be used before the
deleted show's space is reused.

Ken
Anonymous
August 8, 2005 6:59:27 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

>>You DO realize that when TiVo deletes something it is because it is going to
>>be overwritten not so much as a second later, right? In this event, even an
>>undelete feature will not help you...it's gone. There's nothing TO
>>undelete.
>
>
> Some people (a lot of people?) delete things as they watch them. That allows
> Tivo to actually record suggestions...if you let Tivo delete shows as it needs
> space, you will never have any suggestions because all of your space will be
> used for requested recordings.
>
> Ken

I don't think what he said is disputing that, Howard's just pointing out
that an undelete feature won't be any use for a situation where a show
is *programmatically* deleted by the Tivo.

Randy S.
Anonymous
August 8, 2005 7:03:28 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

>>An undelete feature would pretty much only be usable for those "senior"
>>moments of users making mistakes. That's why Tivo asks *twice* before
>>deleteing a show (once when you select it, once again to make sure).
>
>
> Not necessarily so, there are a number of occasions where Tivo will delete a
> show where it could safely not reuse the space immediately. If you have a
> Keep At Most limit on a season pass it will delete old shows without needing
> the space.

That's a good point.

> Also, if you delete shows after you finish watching them, there
> could be quite a bit of free space on the drive that could be used before the
> deleted show's space is reused.

Hmm, it's possible, but since there's no telling which areas will be
written over, it's really hit or miss. How much good is an undelete
feature that *sometimes* works?

Truthfully, I think undelete is much more useful when dealing with lots
of small files like on a regular PC, not when dealing with fewer numbers
of very large files. Note that unless you drastically change default
settings, PC's typically won't store very large files (esp. video files)
in the undelete (i.e. trash) area.

Randy S.
Anonymous
August 8, 2005 8:58:13 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Randy S." <rswitt@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:D d8aa1$g1m$1@spnode25.nerdc.ufl.edu...
>
>> Also, if you delete shows after you finish watching them, there could be
>> quite a bit of free space on the drive that could be used before the
>> deleted show's space is reused.
>
> Hmm, it's possible, but since there's no telling which areas will be written
> over, it's really hit or miss. How much good is an undelete feature that
> *sometimes* works?

It wouldn't have to work the same way a normal "undelete" works, where it
tries to recover the sectors if they haven't been overwritten already. What
it could do instead is when a show is "deleted", what really happens is the
show is demoted to a status not unlike a suggestion, where it is eligible for
"real" deletion should the need arise, but is still fully intact as a file up
until that occurs.

Some rules would have to be made governing whether and when a suggestion could
cause a "deleted" file to be deleted for real, but that's not an impossible
task. One potential rule: a "deleted" show has priority over a suggestion for
two days after deletion, after which suggestions will have higher priority.
That would mean if Tivo needed space, it would first look for deleted files
greater than two days old to overwrite. If that failed, it would look for
suggestions to overwrite. If that failed, it would look for newly deleted
shows, and finally if it still needed space, then a requested recording would
be bumped.

Ken
Anonymous
August 8, 2005 9:41:24 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

On 2005-08-08, Ken Alverson <USENET.Ken@Alverson.net> wrote:
> "Randy S." <rswitt@NOSPAM.com> wrote in message
> news:D d7i3u$vuq$1@spnode25.nerdc.ufl.edu...
>>
>> But Howard makes an excellent point. It deleted those shows for a reason,
>> because it *immediately* reused that space. Therefore those shows would
>> never be able to be *undeleted*.
>>
>> An undelete feature would pretty much only be usable for those "senior"
>> moments of users making mistakes. That's why Tivo asks *twice* before
>> deleteing a show (once when you select it, once again to make sure).
>
> Not necessarily so, there are a number of occasions where Tivo will delete a
> show where it could safely not reuse the space immediately. If you have a
> Keep At Most limit on a season pass it will delete old shows without needing
> the space. Also, if you delete shows after you finish watching them, there
> could be quite a bit of free space on the drive that could be used before the
> deleted show's space is reused.

I guess if you find you keep wanting to undelete season passes hitting
their keep at Most limit or shows you just deleted, perhaps you should
change your habits. Up the Keep at Most limit (or watch the shows or mark
them to not be deleted) and stop deleting the shows after you watch them.

My solution is to just have 2 120GB harddrives. If anything is getting
deleted to make space, I wasn't going to watch it since it takes months
for stuff to go from the top to the bottom with this much room.

--
This is my .sig
Anonymous
August 8, 2005 9:41:25 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Mike Hunt" <in2sheep@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:11ff6a41klpr432@corp.supernews.com...
> On 2005-08-08, Ken Alverson <USENET.Ken@Alverson.net> wrote:
>>
>> Not necessarily so, there are a number of occasions where Tivo will delete
>> a
>> show where it could safely not reuse the space immediately. If you have a
>> Keep At Most limit on a season pass it will delete old shows without
>> needing
>> the space. Also, if you delete shows after you finish watching them, there
>> could be quite a bit of free space on the drive that could be used before
>> the
>> deleted show's space is reused.
>
> I guess if you find you keep wanting to undelete season passes hitting
> their keep at Most limit or shows you just deleted, perhaps you should
> change your habits. Up the Keep at Most limit (or watch the shows or mark
> them to not be deleted) and stop deleting the shows after you watch them.

It defaults to five, though...I generally set no limit on KAM, but
occasionally I'll miss a show and then lose the first couple episodes when it
starts rolling over (some shows I'll watch a whole season at a time, waiting
for the last episode before I start watching the first). Granted, undelete
probably wouldn't help me in that case, because I usually don't notice right
when it rolls over the first time, I usually notice after the show has sat at
5 episodes for a few weeks.

Ken
Anonymous
August 9, 2005 1:37:23 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

> It wouldn't have to work the same way a normal "undelete" works, where it
> tries to recover the sectors if they haven't been overwritten already. What
> it could do instead is when a show is "deleted", what really happens is the
> show is demoted to a status not unlike a suggestion, where it is eligible for
> "real" deletion should the need arise, but is still fully intact as a file up
> until that occurs.
>
> Some rules would have to be made governing whether and when a suggestion could
> cause a "deleted" file to be deleted for real, but that's not an impossible
> task. One potential rule: a "deleted" show has priority over a suggestion for
> two days after deletion, after which suggestions will have higher priority.
> That would mean if Tivo needed space, it would first look for deleted files
> greater than two days old to overwrite. If that failed, it would look for
> suggestions to overwrite. If that failed, it would look for newly deleted
> shows, and finally if it still needed space, then a requested recording would
> be bumped.

And the average Tivo user would be expected to understand that? I think
that's just getting needlessly complex, even if it makes logical sense.

Randy S.
Anonymous
August 9, 2005 2:45:53 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Ken Alverson" <USENET.Ken@Alverson.net> shaped the electrons to say:
>I delete things as I watch them, so that only shows I haven't watched are
>saved on my Tivo. Occasionally I'll want to undelete something, not because I
>accidentally deleted it, but because someone else asks to see it the next day,
>and I no longer have it.

Yeah, that's usually what makes me want undelete.

Once in a blue moon I fat finger and delete something I wanted to
keep. Because I do generally delete things right after watching I get
into that 'left arrow, select delete, select, confirm, done' habit -
then I watch something and thing "I should burn this to DVD" or
something, and before I catch myself I go and delete it.

-MZ
--
<URL:mailto:megazoneatmegazone.org> Gweep, Discordian, Author, Engineer, me.
"A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men" 508-852-2171
<URL:http://www.megazone.org/&gt; <URL:http://www.eyrie-productions.com/&gt; Eris
Anonymous
August 9, 2005 2:45:54 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Or why not have an optional super level of KUID option to assign programs?
Something like go to a menu option, enter a sequence of letters or thumbs
up/down...whatever you want. And once it's activated, it'll show what your
delete sequence in the menu so you can't forget it. It'll just make it
harder to accidently delete something.
Anonymous
August 9, 2005 4:36:56 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Randy S." <rswitt@NOSPAM.com> wrote in message
news:D d91cj$lrc$1@spnode25.nerdc.ufl.edu...
>
>> It wouldn't have to work the same way a normal "undelete" works, where it
>> tries to recover the sectors if they haven't been overwritten already.
>> What it could do instead is when a show is "deleted", what really happens
>> is the show is demoted to a status not unlike a suggestion, where it is
>> eligible for "real" deletion should the need arise, but is still fully
>> intact as a file up until that occurs.
>>
>> Some rules would have to be made governing whether and when a suggestion
>> could cause a "deleted" file to be deleted for real, but that's not an
>> impossible task. One potential rule: a "deleted" show has priority over a
>> suggestion for two days after deletion, after which suggestions will have
>> higher priority. That would mean if Tivo needed space, it would first look
>> for deleted files greater than two days old to overwrite. If that failed,
>> it would look for suggestions to overwrite. If that failed, it would look
>> for newly deleted shows, and finally if it still needed space, then a
>> requested recording would be bumped.
>
> And the average Tivo user would be expected to understand that? I think
> that's just getting needlessly complex, even if it makes logical sense.

The user wouldn't have to understand it for it to work...the observable effect
would just be a few less potential suggestions when there were undeletable
files on the system. Neither suggestions nor undeletable shows would prevent
a requested recording from being made, and if the user tried to undelete a
show that had fallen off the undeletable list, they would get a polite message
saying that some other show required the space (or depending on how you wanted
to design the UI, it wouldn't even show up in the list and there would be some
sort of notice that /any/ show not on the list has been overwritten by new
shows)

There's lots of little dark corners in the Tivo logic that the average Tivo
user doesn't necessarily understand, but the system as a whole is still quite
usable without requiring the user to understand everything that is going on...

Ken
Anonymous
August 10, 2005 5:42:37 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

MegaZone wrote:

> Once in a blue moon I fat finger and delete something I wanted to
> keep. Because I do generally delete things right after watching I get
> into that 'left arrow, select delete, select, confirm, done' habit -

What gets me is the habit of 'at end of program: left, up, right'.
Followed five seconds later by "Oh, BLEEP! I was supposed to leave
that for Sally to watch."
-Joe
Anonymous
August 10, 2005 8:56:58 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Howard" <stile99@email.com> wrote in message
news:Xns96ABDDF9179FAstile@129.250.170.93...
> "Tony Clark" <curiousgeorge1964@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:EYyJe.2829$WD.1103
> @newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net:
>
>> In all fairness, Tivo sometimes deletes things on its own unless you
>> manually intervene (by specifying to keep something indefinitely or
>> whatever).
>
> You DO realize that when TiVo deletes something it is because it is going
> to
> be overwritten not so much as a second later, right? In this event, even
> an
> undelete feature will not help you...it's gone. There's nothing TO
> undelete.
>

True in many cases but not all cases. I believe that the setting for keeping
a certain number of 'episodes' will delete items even if there is space
available. Also, Tivo could maintain a temp area for recovery of deleted
items ala MS Windows. All I am saying is that there are times when things
get deleted that it would be nice to be able to get them back.

Cheers
TC
August 11, 2005 8:37:08 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

In article <y7adneNpvL6bI2TfRVn-qQ@comcast.com>, Joe Smith <joe@inwap.com> wrote:
>MegaZone wrote:
>
>> Once in a blue moon I fat finger and delete something I wanted to
>> keep. Because I do generally delete things right after watching I get
>> into that 'left arrow, select delete, select, confirm, done' habit -
>
>What gets me is the habit of 'at end of program: left, up, right'.
>Followed five seconds later by "Oh, BLEEP! I was supposed to leave
>that for Sally to watch."
> -Joe
Well at least with DirecTV, most likely that show will be on approx 14 more
times in the same month
August 12, 2005 4:59:26 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

* GMAN wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
> In article <y7adneNpvL6bI2TfRVn-qQ@comcast.com>, Joe Smith <joe@inwap.com> wrote:
>>MegaZone wrote:

>>> Once in a blue moon I fat finger and delete something I wanted to
>>> keep. Because I do generally delete things right after watching I get
>>> into that 'left arrow, select delete, select, confirm, done' habit -

>>What gets me is the habit of 'at end of program: left, up, right'.
>>Followed five seconds later by "Oh, BLEEP! I was supposed to leave
>>that for Sally to watch."
>> -Joe
> Well at least with DirecTV, most likely that show will be on approx 14 more
> times in the same month

Not limited to DirecTV and that is not true for the networks.
--
David
You'll be sorry...
August 12, 2005 5:35:34 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

In article <ajrrs2xn88.ln2@news.gates-of-hell.com>, SINNER <99nesorjd@gates_of_hell.invalid> wrote:
>* GMAN wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
>> In article <y7adneNpvL6bI2TfRVn-qQ@comcast.com>, Joe Smith <joe@inwap.com>
> wrote:
>>>MegaZone wrote:
>
>>>> Once in a blue moon I fat finger and delete something I wanted to
>>>> keep. Because I do generally delete things right after watching I get
>>>> into that 'left arrow, select delete, select, confirm, done' habit -
>
>>>What gets me is the habit of 'at end of program: left, up, right'.
>>>Followed five seconds later by "Oh, BLEEP! I was supposed to leave
>>>that for Sally to watch."
>>> -Joe
>> Well at least with DirecTV, most likely that show will be on approx 14 more
>> times in the same month
>
>Not limited to DirecTV and that is not true for the networks.
i was just making the comment that it seems that they always rerun the hell
out of a show anymore.
!