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Noise Cancelling Headphones

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January 29, 2005 10:29:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.travel.air,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

Hello.
I live in a very noisy household. The train station is next door, the
airport is a 5 minute drive away, a boys high school across the road, a
primary school on the other side and construction sites going up around
me and council men working on roads and have been for some time now, so
I hear the planes, the trains, kids, jack hammers, bulldozers, cranes,
etc all day long. Then there's my father who is half deaf and needs the
TV very loud in order to hear.. The noise is unbearable, especially when
it comes to studying, I can't concentrate with this noise.
Short of moving and sending my father to a nursing home, can anyone
please give me some pointers on noise cancelling headphones?
There are so many brands/kinds/specifications out there and as I am
female, I can't get an honest salesman who will tell me which is the
best without burning a hole in my pocket!!

Are there headphones that block out sound completely, which is not what
I am expecting, but also that I shouldn't buy the headphones used on
airtravel as they won't be very ineffective.

Are there different headphones that cater to noise cancelling
headphones? I was told that the airtravel anti-noise headphones are
different, can anyone explain why?

If someone can provide a list of specs I should use when purchasing
noise cancelling headphones, it would help me catch our fibbing salesmen!

Thanks!
Anonymous
January 29, 2005 10:29:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.travel.air,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

Jayne wrote:

> If someone can provide a list of specs I should use when purchasing
> noise cancelling headphones, it would help me catch our fibbing salesmen!
>

Only one spec. Are they Bose QuietComfort 2?
Anonymous
January 29, 2005 10:29:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.travel.air,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

Jayne <jane@no-spam.yahoo.com.au> writes:

> Are there headphones that block out sound completely, which is not
> what I am expecting, but also that I shouldn't buy the headphones used
> on airtravel as they won't be very ineffective.
>
> Are there different headphones that cater to noise cancelling
> headphones? I was told that the airtravel anti-noise headphones are
> different, can anyone explain why?
>
> If someone can provide a list of specs I should use when purchasing
> noise cancelling headphones, it would help me catch our fibbing
> salesmen!

Personally, I think this is an area where the story about the Russian
space programs and NASA's approach to "how to write in space" is
applicable. You may have heard it--NASA spent lots of money
developing a pen that would write in a 0G environment. The Russians
used pencils!

Likewise, this active noise cancellation stuff is mighty tricky. It's
effective for drone continuous noise like you get on airplanes, but
for spurious noise, it's simply not that great.

So, passive attenuation is really the way to go. Check out "in-ear
headphones" that seal your ear canal. think of them like earplugs
that have speakers in em--isolating you from ambient sound and
providin gyou a means of playing your music to you. Nearly every
musician you're seeing on TV is using them these days, and
increasingly more local folks as well.

Shure makes good ones -- E2, E1, E5 models. Etymotic makes them too.
If you can afford an extra $60-$80 to hvae an audiologist make you a
custom mold for them, you'll have fabulous bass response, a great fit,
and wonderful ease of getting htem in and out. I have a web page
about custom ear plugs and the molding process for in ear monitors is
nearly identical:
http://toddh.net/music/ear/

You can try the Bose active noise cancelling headphones, but you end
up with big full ear headphones, another battery powered processor
hanging off of you, and I bet a passive in-ear slution would do a
better job of isolating you without all that friggin expense bulk and
complexity.

Best Regards,
--
/"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | Todd H
\ / | http://www.toddh.net/
X Promoting good netiquette | http://triplethreatband.com/
/ \ http://www.toddh.net/netiquette/ | "4 lines suffice."
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Anonymous
January 29, 2005 10:29:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.travel.air,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

Jayne wrote:
> Hello.
> I live in a very noisy household. The train station is next door, the
> airport is a 5 minute drive away, a boys high school across the road,
> a primary school on the other side and construction sites going up
> around me and council men working on roads and have been for some
> time now, so I hear the planes, the trains, kids, jack hammers,
> bulldozers, cranes, etc all day long. Then there's my father who is
> half deaf and needs the TV very loud in order to hear.. The noise is
> unbearable, especially when it comes to studying, I can't concentrate
> with this noise. Short of moving and sending my father to a nursing home,
> can anyone
> please give me some pointers on noise cancelling headphones?
> There are so many brands/kinds/specifications out there and as I am
> female, I can't get an honest salesman who will tell me which is the
> best without burning a hole in my pocket!!
>
> Are there headphones that block out sound completely, which is not
> what I am expecting, but also that I shouldn't buy the headphones
> used on airtravel as they won't be very ineffective.
>
> Are there different headphones that cater to noise cancelling
> headphones? I was told that the airtravel anti-noise headphones are
> different, can anyone explain why?
>
> If someone can provide a list of specs I should use when purchasing
> noise cancelling headphones, it would help me catch our fibbing
> salesmen!
> Thanks!

The current mode 2 Bose does a great job. However keep in mind that it
work different with different kinds of noise. I suspect you will like the
results, but I do suggest a test. I believe they offer a thirty day trial
so try them.

The cost is $200 + US as I recall. I think they have a current promotion
(ending Jan 31) you get a CD player thrown in.

I find the can make some sounds clearer and others almost eliminated.
It seems to select well, but again that will depend on your needs. They are
comfortable and the battery has an estimated life of 10 or is it 35 hours.

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math
Anonymous
January 29, 2005 10:29:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.travel.air,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

Hi Jayne,

Here in the UK we have a TV programme called the Gadget Show and last week
they tested 4 noise cancelling headsets. One was Bose, another Sony and a
third that I can't recall (Sennheiser, I think). All 3 of these used noise
cancelling circuitry; the test was conducted on a jet plane and, to some
extent, each of these worked to cancel out some of the noise of the plane.
However, the final set tested were Shure EC3 earbuds; these don't use any
noise cancelling circuitry but have foam over the buds that moulds itself to
the shape of your ear. The programme concluded that these were significantly
better than any of the others in the test. The presenter noted that they
were so good at reducing exterior sounds, he was able to reduce the volume
of the music - something he hadn't been able to do with any of the other
phones. It was a very clear winner, according to the programme.

Mike.
Anonymous
January 29, 2005 10:29:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.travel.air,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

These are a few examples. The appropriate options will be required for the
application required. These models are the vary basic types. The cost goes
up as the required performance specifications are demanded. There are some
industrial versions for working in very noisy environments, such as machine
shops, and ect. These are far more costly than the examples listed below.


For general applications:
http://www.siemenscomms-online.co.uk/catalogue/product_...


For general applications:
http://www.best4systems.co.uk/product.asp?ProdID=5268&C...


You should enquire to the manufactures of these for proper details, to fit
your needs.


--

Jerry G.
=====

"Jayne" <jane@no-spam.yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:41fb4955$0$2201$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
Hello.
I live in a very noisy household. The train station is next door, the
airport is a 5 minute drive away, a boys high school across the road, a
primary school on the other side and construction sites going up around
me and council men working on roads and have been for some time now, so
I hear the planes, the trains, kids, jack hammers, bulldozers, cranes,
etc all day long. Then there's my father who is half deaf and needs the
TV very loud in order to hear.. The noise is unbearable, especially when
it comes to studying, I can't concentrate with this noise.
Short of moving and sending my father to a nursing home, can anyone
please give me some pointers on noise cancelling headphones?
There are so many brands/kinds/specifications out there and as I am
female, I can't get an honest salesman who will tell me which is the
best without burning a hole in my pocket!!

Are there headphones that block out sound completely, which is not what
I am expecting, but also that I shouldn't buy the headphones used on
airtravel as they won't be very ineffective.

Are there different headphones that cater to noise cancelling
headphones? I was told that the airtravel anti-noise headphones are
different, can anyone explain why?

If someone can provide a list of specs I should use when purchasing
noise cancelling headphones, it would help me catch our fibbing salesmen!

Thanks!
Anonymous
January 29, 2005 10:29:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.travel.air,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

Jayne <jane@no-spam.yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>
>Are there headphones that block out sound completely, which is not what
>I am expecting, but also that I shouldn't buy the headphones used on
>airtravel as they won't be very ineffective.

Nothing will block sound completely, but if I were you I would start out
with the small foam earplugs. They provide pretty good isolation and
are reasonably comfortable for long-term use. You can get custom earmolds
from an audiologist that will be more comfortable and more effective, but
also a lot more expensive. So try the foam first.

>Are there different headphones that cater to noise cancelling
>headphones? I was told that the airtravel anti-noise headphones are
>different, can anyone explain why?

The noise-cancelling headsets for pilots (Bose, Sennheiser, David Clark, etc.)
are very good for cancelling out repetitive low-frequency noises. They also,
just because they are mechanically surrounding your ear, are pretty good at
sealing out high frequency noise.

The noise cancellation system works great on piston engine noise... on a
small GA craft where there is a huge amount of radial engine noise, they
are just like night and day. On a jet plane where most of the noise is
either random incidence noise from the airframe or high frequency whine
from the engines, they aren't really much more effective than just the
older pilot's sets with good sealing.

My experience with the consumer gadgets is that they aren't really very
useful for anything... at least, they aren't appreciably better than just
good earplugs. Admittedly I have only used the Bose and Sony models, but
they do not provide a good ear seal and are generally much less effective
than the pilot models.

I don't think any of these will be all that useful for day to day noise in
your environment, but it might effectively cancel out power tool noises
and appliance noises enough to be interesting.

I'd sure start with the yellow foam earplugs, though, and work up from that
slowly.

>If someone can provide a list of specs I should use when purchasing
>noise cancelling headphones, it would help me catch our fibbing salesmen!

None of these things have any real specs. Go to your local airport's
general aviation terminal and ask if the pilot shop has any that you can
put on and walk around with.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
January 29, 2005 10:29:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.travel.air,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

"Jayne" <jane@no-spam.yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:41fb4955$0$2201$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
> Hello.
> I live in a very noisy household. The train station is next door, the
> airport is a 5 minute drive away, a boys high school across the road, a
> primary school on the other side and construction sites going up around
> me and council men working on roads and have been for some time now, so
> I hear the planes, the trains, kids, jack hammers, bulldozers, cranes,
> etc all day long. Then there's my father who is half deaf and needs the
> TV very loud in order to hear.. The noise is unbearable, especially when
> it comes to studying, I can't concentrate with this noise.
> Short of moving and sending my father to a nursing home, can anyone
> please give me some pointers on noise cancelling headphones?
> There are so many brands/kinds/specifications out there and as I am
> female, I can't get an honest salesman who will tell me which is the
> best without burning a hole in my pocket!!
>
> Are there headphones that block out sound completely, which is not what
> I am expecting, but also that I shouldn't buy the headphones used on
> airtravel as they won't be very ineffective.
>
> Are there different headphones that cater to noise cancelling
> headphones? I was told that the airtravel anti-noise headphones are
> different, can anyone explain why?
>
> If someone can provide a list of specs I should use when purchasing
> noise cancelling headphones, it would help me catch our fibbing salesmen!
>
> Thanks!
>
There are two ways to reduce outside noise in a headphone (and they are not
mutually exclusive):

1) Headphones that block outside noise by mechanical means, with large
earpads or earbuds.

2) Headphones that use noise canceling circuitry (run by a battery) to
cancel out noise by adding more noise to the signal (you can do some
research at the Bose web site if you need a more technical explanation).
These do work well in airplanes, which is the only place I have ever used
them. If you turn off the circuitry, they function as normal headphones so
you can definitely tell the difference. These come with normal earpads or
earbuds, depending on the model.

I have not tried the better earbuds, but I am assuming that they still do no
offer as good of bass response as large closed earpad headphones. But maybe
someone who has tried them can comment.

Actually, you might want to get your father some wireless headphones for the
TV. That way you cold turn the sound down (or off) on the TV set.
Anonymous
January 29, 2005 10:29:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.travel.air,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

Consumer noise-cancellers won't help you much. They block out
low-frequency, periodic noise pretty well, but don't do anything for
higher-frequency, impulse noise, which sounds like the majority of what you
have to contend with.

If you don't mind spending a little money, you might look at either video
production intercom phones or headphones intended for use by pilots. Both
of these use active noise-cancelling like the consumer phones, but they
will, essentially, block most anything. I've used the video production
phones before in concert environment, i.e. LOTS of really loud sounds, and
they do an extraordinary job of taking things back. If anything, they're
too good -- you have to get used to the effect, which is something like
being in an acoustic black hole.

"Jayne" <jane@no-spam.yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:41fb4955$0$2201$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
> Hello.
> I live in a very noisy household. The train station is next door, the
> airport is a 5 minute drive away, a boys high school across the road, a
> primary school on the other side and construction sites going up around
> me and council men working on roads and have been for some time now, so
> I hear the planes, the trains, kids, jack hammers, bulldozers, cranes,
> etc all day long. Then there's my father who is half deaf and needs the
> TV very loud in order to hear.. The noise is unbearable, especially when
> it comes to studying, I can't concentrate with this noise.
> Short of moving and sending my father to a nursing home, can anyone
> please give me some pointers on noise cancelling headphones?
> There are so many brands/kinds/specifications out there and as I am
> female, I can't get an honest salesman who will tell me which is the
> best without burning a hole in my pocket!!
>
> Are there headphones that block out sound completely, which is not what
> I am expecting, but also that I shouldn't buy the headphones used on
> airtravel as they won't be very ineffective.
>
> Are there different headphones that cater to noise cancelling
> headphones? I was told that the airtravel anti-noise headphones are
> different, can anyone explain why?
>
> If someone can provide a list of specs I should use when purchasing
> noise cancelling headphones, it would help me catch our fibbing salesmen!
>
> Thanks!
>
Anonymous
January 29, 2005 10:29:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.travel.air,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

In article <41fb4955$0$2201$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> jane@no-spam.yahoo.com.au writes:

> I live in a very noisy household. The train station is next door, the
> airport is a 5 minute drive away, a boys high school across the road, a
> primary school on the other side and construction sites going up around
> me and council men working on roads and have been for some time now, so
> I hear the planes, the trains, kids, jack hammers, bulldozers, cranes,
> etc all day long. Then there's my father who is half deaf and needs the
> TV very loud in order to hear.. The noise is unbearable, especially when
> it comes to studying, I can't concentrate with this noise.
> Short of moving and sending my father to a nursing home, can anyone
> please give me some pointers on noise cancelling headphones?

I can give you one. This isn't the kind of noise that noise cancelling
headphones effectively cancel. If you're studying, you don't want
distracting music or other listening material distracting you either.

Get some earplugs.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
January 29, 2005 10:29:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.travel.air,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

Are you sure you need noise-cancellation headphones? One cheap
possibility: plain old ear plugs (to cut the background noise), and then
crank up the volume in your ordinary headphones (to get through the
earplugs). It may work well enough, and it will cost a pittance to try.
Anonymous
January 29, 2005 10:29:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.travel.air,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

"Todd H." <bmiawmb@toddh.net> wrote in message
news:m0651gsi17.fsf@ripco.com

> You can try the Bose active noise cancelling headphones, but you end
> up with big full ear headphones, another battery powered processor
> hanging off of you, and I bet a passive in-ear slution would do a
> better job of isolating you without all that friggin expense bulk and
> complexity.


Agreed. The isolation provided by earphones as opposed to headphones is far
greater. People who are unsure about the earphone concept can get their feet
wet with the inexpenive Koss "The Plug" earphones, under $20 at places like
Best Buy and Circuit City. While they don't sound bad, for a greater
investment, substantially better sound quality can be optioned. However, not
everybody seems to be able to get onboard with earphones, so this is a good
way to buy and try before you put forth a major investment for far better
earphones such as the Shure E3C and Futuresonics.
Anonymous
January 29, 2005 10:29:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.travel.air,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

Mike Phillips said:

> However, the final set tested were Shure EC3 earbuds; these don't use any
> noise cancelling circuitry but have foam over the buds that moulds itself to
> the shape of your ear. The programme concluded that these were significantly
> better than any of the others in the test. The presenter noted that they
> were so good at reducing exterior sounds, he was able to reduce the volume
> of the music - something he hadn't been able to do with any of the other
> phones. It was a very clear winner, according to the programme.

Not that one should be overly cynical, but do you recall who sponsored the
show in question?
January 29, 2005 10:29:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.travel.air,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

On 29 Jan 2005 03:26:12 -0600, bmiawmb@toddh.net (Todd H.) wrote:

>Personally, I think this is an area where the story about the Russian
>space programs and NASA's approach to "how to write in space" is
>applicable. You may have heard it--NASA spent lots of money
>developing a pen that would write in a 0G environment. The Russians
>used pencils!

Urban legend.

http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.asp

RJ
Anonymous
January 29, 2005 10:29:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.travel.air,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

"Mike Phillips" <mike1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:361ereF4rg83qU1@individual.net...
> Hi Jayne,
>
> Here in the UK we have a TV programme called the Gadget Show and last week
> they tested 4 noise cancelling headsets. One was Bose, another Sony and a
> third that I can't recall (Sennheiser, I think). All 3 of these used noise
> cancelling circuitry; the test was conducted on a jet plane and, to some
> extent, each of these worked to cancel out some of the noise of the plane.
> However, the final set tested were Shure EC3 earbuds; these don't use any
> noise cancelling circuitry but have foam over the buds that moulds itself
to
> the shape of your ear. The programme concluded that these were
significantly
> better than any of the others in the test. The presenter noted that they
> were so good at reducing exterior sounds, he was able to reduce the volume
> of the music - something he hadn't been able to do with any of the other
> phones. It was a very clear winner, according to the programme.
>
> Mike.

The problem is, there is no object measure of the extent of noise reduction.
Saying that the presenter could lower the volume of the music is
meaningless, as that's only a measure of the _efficiency_ of the phones, and
not of their noise-cancelling ability. Phones with larger drivers, i.e.
over-the-ear types, as opposed to ear buds, are, generally, not as efficient
because there is so much more mass to move.


>
>
Anonymous
January 29, 2005 10:29:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.travel.air,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

mrivers@d-and-d.com (Mike Rivers) wrote in news:znr1107005589k@trad:
> In article <41fb4955$0$2201$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>
> jane@no-spam.yahoo.com.au writes:
>
>> I live in a very noisy household. The train station is next door, the
>> airport is a 5 minute drive away, a boys high school across the road,
>> a primary school on the other side and construction sites going up
>> around me and council men working on roads and have been for some
>> time now, so I hear the planes, the trains, kids, jack hammers,
>> bulldozers, cranes, etc all day long. Then there's my father who is
>> half deaf and needs the TV very loud in order to hear.. The noise is
>> unbearable, especially when it comes to studying, I can't concentrate
>> with this noise. Short of moving and sending my father to a nursing
>> home, can anyone please give me some pointers on noise cancelling
>> headphones?
>
> I can give you one. This isn't the kind of noise that noise cancelling
> headphones effectively cancel. If you're studying, you don't want
> distracting music or other listening material distracting you either.
>
> Get some earplugs.

I haven't studied the newest technology, but I have to agree with Mike.

Headphones are designed to cancel impulse noise (like jackhammers at a
construction site) and wide spectrum noise (like static on an unused tv
or radio channel, or that made by the airflow around a plane or by a jet
engine in cruise). They are not made to cancel out noise in the vocal
range, in fact, most are made to specifically allow that range, so a
construction worker can wear the headphones and hear the co-worker
telling him to duck to miss the swinging I-beam - it's a safety thing.
If they didn't do this, then the lawyers would have a field day.

Feel free to correct me if things have changed with the newest
technology.

In any case, ear plugs are the most effective, but they are not
comfortable for long term use. Personally, I wear a set of headphones
made for construction workers pretty much all day. I work in an office
environment, but I work much better when I do not have to hear any of
the chit-chat or noise in the office. I got the habit off a guy who
worked in the computer room all day and wore them to block out the fan
noise. He told me that when he wore them people were less likely to
bother him, and indeed he was right. That's a 2nd benefit of wearing
them...

--lw--
Anonymous
January 29, 2005 10:29:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.travel.air,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

PTRAVEL wrote:
> Consumer noise-cancellers won't help you much. They block out
> low-frequency, periodic noise pretty well, but don't do anything for
> higher-frequency, impulse noise, which sounds like the majority of
> what you have to contend with.

I would not agree with that. The new Bose, I have never tried any
others, claims to have improved that area. My own personal test indicates
the active portion of the headphones does indeed do a good job on the high
frequency (hiss) end of the problem.

Just for un I tried them out while watching TV and working out on my erg
(rowing machine). Head phones on, everything was muffled, OK that would be
better on the plane, I switched it on and after a second or two delay,
bingo. The background noise of the erg (wind and bearing noise) was greatly
reduced. The TV which was turned up high so I could hear it and it as
producing a fair amount of hiss, suddenly became quite clear. I could
understand what was being said much more clearly.

Do they do as well as those designed for pilots? I don't know, but I am
glad I bought the ones I have. I will buy a set for my girlfriend before we
head out on our next trip. Maybe I will be able to hear what she is saying
on the plane this time.

>
> If you don't mind spending a little money, you might look at either
> video production intercom phones or headphones intended for use by
> pilots. Both of these use active noise-cancelling like the consumer
> phones, but they will, essentially, block most anything. I've used
> the video production phones before in concert environment, i.e. LOTS
> of really loud sounds, and they do an extraordinary job of taking
> things back. If anything, they're too good -- you have to get used
> to the effect, which is something like being in an acoustic black
> hole.
>
> "Jayne" <jane@no-spam.yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> news:41fb4955$0$2201$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
>> Hello.
>> I live in a very noisy household. The train station is next door, the
>> airport is a 5 minute drive away, a boys high school across the
>> road, a primary school on the other side and construction sites
>> going up around me and council men working on roads and have been
>> for some time now, so I hear the planes, the trains, kids, jack
>> hammers, bulldozers, cranes, etc all day long. Then there's my
>> father who is half deaf and needs the TV very loud in order to
>> hear.. The noise is unbearable, especially when it comes to
>> studying, I can't concentrate with this noise.
>> Short of moving and sending my father to a nursing home, can anyone
>> please give me some pointers on noise cancelling headphones?
>> There are so many brands/kinds/specifications out there and as I am
>> female, I can't get an honest salesman who will tell me which is the
>> best without burning a hole in my pocket!!
>>
>> Are there headphones that block out sound completely, which is not
>> what I am expecting, but also that I shouldn't buy the headphones
>> used on airtravel as they won't be very ineffective.
>>
>> Are there different headphones that cater to noise cancelling
>> headphones? I was told that the airtravel anti-noise headphones are
>> different, can anyone explain why?
>>
>> If someone can provide a list of specs I should use when purchasing
>> noise cancelling headphones, it would help me catch our fibbing
>> salesmen!
>>
>> Thanks!

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math
Anonymous
January 29, 2005 10:29:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.travel.air,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

George M. Middius wrote:
>
> Mike Phillips said:
>
>
>>However, the final set tested were Shure EC3 earbuds; these don't use any
>>noise cancelling circuitry but have foam over the buds that moulds itself to
>>the shape of your ear. The programme concluded that these were significantly
>>better than any of the others in the test. The presenter noted that they
>>were so good at reducing exterior sounds, he was able to reduce the volume
>>of the music - something he hadn't been able to do with any of the other
>>phones. It was a very clear winner, according to the programme.
>
>
> Not that one should be overly cynical, but do you recall who sponsored the
> show in question?
>
>
>
>
I believe that in the UK, direct sponsorship (as implied) is 'illegal'.
I saw the prog, and don't remember any adds for anything remotly
'audio'. The idea of using an earplug to kill unwanted noise seems
sensible to me. (why didn't I think of that one moment)
Anonymous
January 29, 2005 10:29:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.travel.air,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

George M. Middius wrote:
>
> Not that one should be overly cynical, but do you recall who
> sponsored the show in question?

The UK broadcasting regulator has very strict rules about sponsorship of TV
programmes that prevents any editorial control or influence over the content
of sponsored programme. However, in this case, the Gadget Show isn't
sponsored!

Mike.
Anonymous
January 29, 2005 10:42:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.travel.air,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 19:29:10 +1100, Jayne <jane@no-spam.yahoo.com.au>
wrote:

>Hello.
>I live in a very noisy household. The train station is next door, the
>airport is a 5 minute drive away, a boys high school across the road, a
>primary school on the other side and construction sites going up around
>me and council men working on roads and have been for some time now, so
>I hear the planes, the trains, kids, jack hammers, bulldozers, cranes,
>etc all day long. Then there's my father who is half deaf and needs the
>TV very loud in order to hear.. The noise is unbearable, especially when
>it comes to studying, I can't concentrate with this noise.
>Short of moving and sending my father to a nursing home, can anyone
>please give me some pointers on noise cancelling headphones?
>There are so many brands/kinds/specifications out there and as I am
>female, I can't get an honest salesman who will tell me which is the
>best without burning a hole in my pocket!!
>
>Are there headphones that block out sound completely, which is not what
>I am expecting, but also that I shouldn't buy the headphones used on
>airtravel as they won't be very ineffective.
>
>Are there different headphones that cater to noise cancelling
>headphones? I was told that the airtravel anti-noise headphones are
>different, can anyone explain why?
>

Are they effective?

>If someone can provide a list of specs I should use when purchasing
>noise cancelling headphones, it would help me catch our fibbing salesmen!
>
>Thanks!
Anonymous
January 29, 2005 11:30:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.travel.air,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

In message <znr1107005589k@trad>, Mike Rivers <mrivers@d-and-d.com>
writes

>I can give you one. This isn't the kind of noise that noise cancelling
>headphones effectively cancel. If you're studying, you don't want
>distracting music or other listening material distracting you either.

Speak for yourself !

(Are you a teacher ?)


Cheers, J/.
--
John Beardmore
Anonymous
January 30, 2005 12:56:15 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.travel.air,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

["Followup-To:" header set to rec.audio.pro.]
On 2005-01-29, Todd H. <bmiawmb@toddh.net> wrote:

> You may have heard it--NASA spent lots of money
> developing a pen that would write in a 0G environment. The Russians
> used pencils!

Which produce enough graphite dust to cause serious risks to equipment
onboard a spacecraft.

I love the way this factoid is always brought up as an example of how
Russian common sense prevails over American engineering, but it's not
that simple.
Anonymous
January 30, 2005 12:56:16 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.travel.air,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

james of tucson <fishbowl@radagast.home.conservatory.com> writes:
> ["Followup-To:" header set to rec.audio.pro.]
> On 2005-01-29, Todd H. <bmiawmb@toddh.net> wrote:
>
> > You may have heard it--NASA spent lots of money
> > developing a pen that would write in a 0G environment. The Russians
> > used pencils!
>
> Which produce enough graphite dust to cause serious risks to equipment
> onboard a spacecraft.
>
> I love the way this factoid is always brought up as an example of how
> Russian common sense prevails over American engineering, but it's not
> that simple.

Um... you do realize this was introduced as a "story" (omitted in your
quote) and that this was brought up for a reason that had NOTHING to
do with Russian common sense vs. American engineering?

The point, in case you missed it, is that there are pitfalls in
assuming that the most technical solution is necessarily the best. In
this case, passive attenuation is likely to be more effective,
simpler, and a lot cheaper than active noise cancellation.

Best Regards,
--
Todd H
American Engineer
http://triplethreatband.com/
Anonymous
January 30, 2005 12:56:17 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.travel.air,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

> The point, in case you missed it, is that there are pitfalls in
> assuming that the most technical solution is necessarily the best. In
> this case, passive attenuation is likely to be more effective,
> simpler, and a lot cheaper than active noise cancellation.
>
> Best Regards,
> --
> Todd H

I don't know if you have ever used them, but noise canceling headphones work
quite well on an airplane and other similar places. Some airlines I have
flown now provide them for Business and First Class passengers on
International flights. Trust me, if there were a cheaper solution that works
as well, the airlines would use it instead.

No one is saying that noise canceling headphones are best because they are
the most technical solution. They just work.
Anonymous
January 30, 2005 1:00:30 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.travel.air,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

"Mark A" <nobody@nowhere.com> writes:

> > The point, in case you missed it, is that there are pitfalls in
> > assuming that the most technical solution is necessarily the best. In
> > this case, passive attenuation is likely to be more effective,
> > simpler, and a lot cheaper than active noise cancellation.
> >
> > Best Regards,
> > --
> > Todd H
>
> I don't know if you have ever used them, but noise canceling
> headphones work quite well on an airplane and other similar places.

I've used them and don't dispute this claim. They do work. Do they
(in consumer grade particularly) work better than passive solutions
for a given tpye and frequency range of noise--that's the debate
here.

You'll have to look farther up the thread, however, to find out why
they're a poor choice for the OP's situation which involve neither low
frequency nor droning continuous background noise.

> No one is saying that noise canceling headphones are best because
> they are the most technical solution. They just work.

I don't think anyone is saying "They don't work at all" either. I'm
just saying (for the OP's situation in particular), they don't
attenuate as well as passive solutions which are also quite a bit less
expensive.

Finally, don't take airlines use of them for business and first class
as ringing validation that they're the best bang for the buck and most
effective for all types of noise! An airlines would buy those over
passive in-ear headphones for several reasons unrelated to their
effectiveness: first, biz and 1st class cater to folks who are willing
to pay a large premium for style and comfort, and an ooh ah factor
does not go unnoticed in such premium offerings. Second, an active
noise cancelling heaphone, unlike an in-ear is both reusable and very
easy for different indivuals to put on in a sanitary fashion. It'd be
harder to convince the general populace to stick something in their
ear and feel like they're having a first class experience. _That's_
why they aren't handing out Shure E2C's to their business and first
class passengers. :-)

Best Regards,
--
/"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | Todd H
\ / | http://www.toddh.net/
X Promoting good netiquette | http://triplethreatband.com/
/ \ http://www.toddh.net/netiquette/ | "4 lines suffice."
Anonymous
January 30, 2005 1:00:31 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.travel.air,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

> Finally, don't take airlines use of them for business and first class
> as ringing validation that they're the best bang for the buck and most
> effective for all types of noise! An airlines would buy those over
> passive in-ear headphones for several reasons unrelated to their
> effectiveness: first, biz and 1st class cater to folks who are willing
> to pay a large premium for style and comfort, and an ooh ah factor
> does not go unnoticed in such premium offerings.

Sorry, but you don't anything about the airline business. They deal with
extremely large volumes of everything they buy, and they are notorious penny
pinchers, even in business/first class.

Maybe professional custom fit earbuds are better (I never tried them), but
the active noise canceling headphones work quite well in an airplane.

Also, there are some active noise canceling earbuds from Sony. They are
probably not custom fit (I am not sure) but I don't think they have as good
of sound as larger traditional closed air headphones.
Anonymous
January 30, 2005 1:57:26 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.travel.air,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

Joseph Meehan wrote:

> PTRAVEL wrote:
>
>>Consumer noise-cancellers won't help you much. They block out
>>low-frequency, periodic noise pretty well, but don't do anything for
>>higher-frequency, impulse noise, which sounds like the majority of
>>what you have to contend with.
>
>
> I would not agree with that. The new Bose, I have never tried any
> others, claims to have improved that area. My own personal test indicates
> the active portion of the headphones does indeed do a good job on the high
> frequency (hiss) end of the problem.
>
> Just for un I tried them out while watching TV and working out on my erg
> (rowing machine). Head phones on, everything was muffled, OK that would be
> better on the plane, I switched it on and after a second or two delay,
> bingo. The background noise of the erg (wind and bearing noise) was greatly
> reduced. The TV which was turned up high so I could hear it and it as
> producing a fair amount of hiss, suddenly became quite clear. I could
> understand what was being said much more clearly.
>
> Do they do as well as those designed for pilots? I don't know, but I am
> glad I bought the ones I have. I will buy a set for my girlfriend before we
> head out on our next trip. Maybe I will be able to hear what she is saying
> on the plane this time.
>



If the noise canceling is working properly you shouldn't be able to hear
anything that she says.


>
>>If you don't mind spending a little money, you might look at either
>>video production intercom phones or headphones intended for use by
>>pilots. Both of these use active noise-cancelling like the consumer
>>phones, but they will, essentially, block most anything. I've used
>>the video production phones before in concert environment, i.e. LOTS
>>of really loud sounds, and they do an extraordinary job of taking
>>things back. If anything, they're too good -- you have to get used
>>to the effect, which is something like being in an acoustic black
>>hole.
>>
>>"Jayne" <jane@no-spam.yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
>>news:41fb4955$0$2201$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
>>
>>>Hello.
>>>I live in a very noisy household. The train station is next door, the
>>>airport is a 5 minute drive away, a boys high school across the
>>>road, a primary school on the other side and construction sites
>>>going up around me and council men working on roads and have been
>>>for some time now, so I hear the planes, the trains, kids, jack
>>>hammers, bulldozers, cranes, etc all day long. Then there's my
>>>father who is half deaf and needs the TV very loud in order to
>>>hear.. The noise is unbearable, especially when it comes to
>>>studying, I can't concentrate with this noise.
>>>Short of moving and sending my father to a nursing home, can anyone
>>>please give me some pointers on noise cancelling headphones?
>>>There are so many brands/kinds/specifications out there and as I am
>>>female, I can't get an honest salesman who will tell me which is the
>>>best without burning a hole in my pocket!!
>>>
>>>Are there headphones that block out sound completely, which is not
>>>what I am expecting, but also that I shouldn't buy the headphones
>>>used on airtravel as they won't be very ineffective.
>>>
>>>Are there different headphones that cater to noise cancelling
>>>headphones? I was told that the airtravel anti-noise headphones are
>>>different, can anyone explain why?
>>>
>>>If someone can provide a list of specs I should use when purchasing
>>>noise cancelling headphones, it would help me catch our fibbing
>>>salesmen!
>>>
>>>Thanks!
>
>
Anonymous
January 30, 2005 2:08:26 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.travel.air,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

Jayne wrote:

> Hello.
> I live in a very noisy household. The train station is next door, the
> airport is a 5 minute drive away, a boys high school across the road, a
> primary school on the other side and construction sites going up around
> me and council men working on roads and have been for some time now, so
> I hear the planes, the trains, kids, jack hammers, bulldozers, cranes,
> etc all day long. Then there's my father who is half deaf and needs the
> TV very loud in order to hear.. The noise is unbearable, especially when
> it comes to studying, I can't concentrate with this noise.
> Short of moving and sending my father to a nursing home, can anyone
> please give me some pointers on noise cancelling headphones?
> There are so many brands/kinds/specifications out there and as I am
> female, I can't get an honest salesman who will tell me which is the
> best without burning a hole in my pocket!!
>
> Are there headphones that block out sound completely, which is not what
> I am expecting, but also that I shouldn't buy the headphones used on
> airtravel as they won't be very ineffective.
>
> Are there different headphones that cater to noise cancelling
> headphones? I was told that the airtravel anti-noise headphones are
> different, can anyone explain why?
>
> If someone can provide a list of specs I should use when purchasing
> noise cancelling headphones, it would help me catch our fibbing salesmen!

The only thing that would work would be a pair of small earbuds and
then a big pair of shooting muffs on top of them to block out the
external noise.

Electronic supression just doesn't work well enough for really
bad environments - at least in headphones. It's easy to make
noise-cancelling muffs or good sounding headphones, but
together it's an engineering hair-puller.
Anonymous
January 30, 2005 2:09:23 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.travel.air,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

Frank F. Matthews wrote:
> Joseph Meehan wrote:
>
>> PTRAVEL wrote:
>>
>>> Consumer noise-cancellers won't help you much. They block out
>>> low-frequency, periodic noise pretty well, but don't do anything for
>>> higher-frequency, impulse noise, which sounds like the majority of
>>> what you have to contend with.
>>
>>
>> I would not agree with that. The new Bose, I have never tried
>> any others, claims to have improved that area. My own personal test
>> indicates the active portion of the headphones does indeed do a good
>> job on the high frequency (hiss) end of the problem.
>>
>> Just for un I tried them out while watching TV and working out
>> on my erg (rowing machine). Head phones on, everything was muffled,
>> OK that would be better on the plane, I switched it on and after a
>> second or two delay, bingo. The background noise of the erg (wind
>> and bearing noise) was greatly reduced. The TV which was turned up
>> high so I could hear it and it as producing a fair amount of hiss,
>> suddenly became quite clear. I could understand what was being said
>> much more clearly. Do they do as well as those designed for pilots? I
>> don't know,
>> but I am glad I bought the ones I have. I will buy a set for my
>> girlfriend before we head out on our next trip. Maybe I will be
>> able to hear what she is saying on the plane this time.
>>
>
>
>
> If the noise canceling is working properly you shouldn't be able to
> hear anything that she says.

That would depend on the design. Most if not all of these type units
are optimized, intentionally or accidentally to work best on vibration type
noises, like engine noises.

>
>
>>
>>> If you don't mind spending a little money, you might look at either
>>> video production intercom phones or headphones intended for use by
>>> pilots. Both of these use active noise-cancelling like the consumer
>>> phones, but they will, essentially, block most anything. I've used
>>> the video production phones before in concert environment, i.e. LOTS
>>> of really loud sounds, and they do an extraordinary job of taking
>>> things back. If anything, they're too good -- you have to get used
>>> to the effect, which is something like being in an acoustic black
>>> hole.
>>>
>>> "Jayne" <jane@no-spam.yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
>>> news:41fb4955$0$2201$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
>>>
>>>> Hello.
>>>> I live in a very noisy household. The train station is next door,
>>>> the airport is a 5 minute drive away, a boys high school across the
>>>> road, a primary school on the other side and construction sites
>>>> going up around me and council men working on roads and have been
>>>> for some time now, so I hear the planes, the trains, kids, jack
>>>> hammers, bulldozers, cranes, etc all day long. Then there's my
>>>> father who is half deaf and needs the TV very loud in order to
>>>> hear.. The noise is unbearable, especially when it comes to
>>>> studying, I can't concentrate with this noise.
>>>> Short of moving and sending my father to a nursing home, can anyone
>>>> please give me some pointers on noise cancelling headphones?
>>>> There are so many brands/kinds/specifications out there and as I am
>>>> female, I can't get an honest salesman who will tell me which is
>>>> the best without burning a hole in my pocket!!
>>>>
>>>> Are there headphones that block out sound completely, which is not
>>>> what I am expecting, but also that I shouldn't buy the headphones
>>>> used on airtravel as they won't be very ineffective.
>>>>
>>>> Are there different headphones that cater to noise cancelling
>>>> headphones? I was told that the airtravel anti-noise headphones are
>>>> different, can anyone explain why?
>>>>
>>>> If someone can provide a list of specs I should use when purchasing
>>>> noise cancelling headphones, it would help me catch our fibbing
>>>> salesmen!
>>>>
>>>> Thanks!

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math
Anonymous
January 30, 2005 2:10:56 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.travel.air,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

Todd H. wrote:

> Jayne <jane@no-spam.yahoo.com.au> writes:
>
>
>>Are there headphones that block out sound completely, which is not
>>what I am expecting, but also that I shouldn't buy the headphones used
>>on airtravel as they won't be very ineffective.
>>
>>Are there different headphones that cater to noise cancelling
>>headphones? I was told that the airtravel anti-noise headphones are
>>different, can anyone explain why?
>>
>>If someone can provide a list of specs I should use when purchasing
>>noise cancelling headphones, it would help me catch our fibbing
>>salesmen!
>
>
> Personally, I think this is an area where the story about the Russian
> space programs and NASA's approach to "how to write in space" is
> applicable. You may have heard it--NASA spent lots of money
> developing a pen that would write in a 0G environment. The Russians
> used pencils!

Lol. Hence, why my approach works best. It's simple and
straightforward.

> So, passive attenuation is really the way to go. Check out "in-ear
> headphones" that seal your ear canal. think of them like earplugs
> that have speakers in em--isolating you from ambient sound and
> providin gyou a means of playing your music to you. Nearly every
> musician you're seeing on TV is using them these days, and
> increasingly more local folks as well.

These work too, thought custom fitting is a must.
Anonymous
January 30, 2005 2:16:31 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.travel.air,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

RJ wrote:

> On 29 Jan 2005 03:26:12 -0600, bmiawmb@toddh.net (Todd H.) wrote:
>
>
>>Personally, I think this is an area where the story about the Russian
>>space programs and NASA's approach to "how to write in space" is
>>applicable. You may have heard it--NASA spent lots of money
>>developing a pen that would write in a 0G environment. The Russians
>>used pencils!
>
>
> Urban legend.
>
> http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.asp
>

That article seems to verifly the claim. The Russians deemed
it to be an unnecessary expense given the tiny risk involved.
(not to mention that a plain mechanical pencil would work even better)
January 30, 2005 2:16:32 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.travel.air,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 23:16:31 GMT, Joseph Oberlander
<josephoberlander@earthlink.net> wrote:

>
>
>RJ wrote:
>
>> On 29 Jan 2005 03:26:12 -0600, bmiawmb@toddh.net (Todd H.) wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Personally, I think this is an area where the story about the Russian
>>>space programs and NASA's approach to "how to write in space" is
>>>applicable. You may have heard it--NASA spent lots of money
>>>developing a pen that would write in a 0G environment. The Russians
>>>used pencils!
>>
>>
>> Urban legend.
>>
>> http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.asp
>>
>
>That article seems to verifly the claim. The Russians deemed
>it to be an unnecessary expense given the tiny risk involved.
>(not to mention that a plain mechanical pencil would work even better)

You need to brush up on your reading skills.

1. NASA spent no money on it.
2. Pencil bits in zero gravity are at least an annoyance and can be
potentially dangerous (because graphite is conductive).

RJ
Anonymous
January 30, 2005 2:16:33 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.travel.air,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

> You need to brush up on your reading skills.
>
> 1. NASA spent no money on it.
> 2. Pencil bits in zero gravity are at least an annoyance and can be
> potentially dangerous (because graphite is conductive).
>
> RJ

Also, as already noted, wood is flammable, a no-no in a space capsule. Of
course one could use a mechanical pencil, but I pity the astronaut who would
have to change the lead on a mechanical pencil in space. It's hard enough to
do it on earth.
Anonymous
January 30, 2005 6:27:55 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.travel.air,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

"Joseph Meehan" <sligojoe_Spamno@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:t%QKd.5397$i42.5365@fe1.columbus.rr.com...
> PTRAVEL wrote:
>> Consumer noise-cancellers won't help you much. They block out
>> low-frequency, periodic noise pretty well, but don't do anything for
>> higher-frequency, impulse noise, which sounds like the majority of
>> what you have to contend with.
>
> I would not agree with that. The new Bose, I have never tried any
> others, claims to have improved that area. My own personal test indicates
> the active portion of the headphones does indeed do a good job on the high
> frequency (hiss) end of the problem.

I have the new Bose, as well as the original QCs and a pair of Sony
NCR-MD20s. I find they do little (beyond the attentuation caused by the ear
cups themselves) to reduce higher frequency sounds. They certainly don't
effect hiss, which is at the highest end of the audible spectrum.

>
> Just for un I tried them out while watching TV and working out on my
> erg (rowing machine). Head phones on, everything was muffled, OK that
> would be better on the plane, I switched it on and after a second or two
> delay, bingo. The background noise of the erg (wind and bearing noise)
> was greatly reduced. The TV which was turned up high so I could hear it
> and it as producing a fair amount of hiss, suddenly became quite clear. I
> could understand what was being said much more clearly.

Voices are lower in frequency than hiss. What you've described just isn't
possible.


>
> Do they do as well as those designed for pilots? I don't know, but I
> am glad I bought the ones I have.

I'm glad I've got mine too, but please don't set up unreasonable
expectations for those thinking of purchasing them.

> I will buy a set for my girlfriend before we head out on our next trip.
> Maybe I will be able to hear what she is saying on the plane this time.
>
>>
>> If you don't mind spending a little money, you might look at either
>> video production intercom phones or headphones intended for use by
>> pilots. Both of these use active noise-cancelling like the consumer
>> phones, but they will, essentially, block most anything. I've used
>> the video production phones before in concert environment, i.e. LOTS
>> of really loud sounds, and they do an extraordinary job of taking
>> things back. If anything, they're too good -- you have to get used
>> to the effect, which is something like being in an acoustic black
>> hole.
>>
>> "Jayne" <jane@no-spam.yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
>> news:41fb4955$0$2201$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
>>> Hello.
>>> I live in a very noisy household. The train station is next door, the
>>> airport is a 5 minute drive away, a boys high school across the
>>> road, a primary school on the other side and construction sites
>>> going up around me and council men working on roads and have been
>>> for some time now, so I hear the planes, the trains, kids, jack
>>> hammers, bulldozers, cranes, etc all day long. Then there's my
>>> father who is half deaf and needs the TV very loud in order to
>>> hear.. The noise is unbearable, especially when it comes to
>>> studying, I can't concentrate with this noise.
>>> Short of moving and sending my father to a nursing home, can anyone
>>> please give me some pointers on noise cancelling headphones?
>>> There are so many brands/kinds/specifications out there and as I am
>>> female, I can't get an honest salesman who will tell me which is the
>>> best without burning a hole in my pocket!!
>>>
>>> Are there headphones that block out sound completely, which is not
>>> what I am expecting, but also that I shouldn't buy the headphones
>>> used on airtravel as they won't be very ineffective.
>>>
>>> Are there different headphones that cater to noise cancelling
>>> headphones? I was told that the airtravel anti-noise headphones are
>>> different, can anyone explain why?
>>>
>>> If someone can provide a list of specs I should use when purchasing
>>> noise cancelling headphones, it would help me catch our fibbing
>>> salesmen!
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>
> --
> Joseph Meehan
>
> 26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math
>
Anonymous
January 30, 2005 6:28:56 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.travel.air,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

"Frank F. Matthews" <frankfmatthews@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
news:qxUKd.80688$_56.71121@fe2.texas.rr.com...
>
>
> Joseph Meehan wrote:
>
>> PTRAVEL wrote:
>>
>>>Consumer noise-cancellers won't help you much. They block out
>>>low-frequency, periodic noise pretty well, but don't do anything for
>>>higher-frequency, impulse noise, which sounds like the majority of
>>>what you have to contend with.
>>
>>
>> I would not agree with that. The new Bose, I have never tried any
>> others, claims to have improved that area. My own personal test
>> indicates the active portion of the headphones does indeed do a good job
>> on the high frequency (hiss) end of the problem.
>>
>> Just for un I tried them out while watching TV and working out on my
>> erg (rowing machine). Head phones on, everything was muffled, OK that
>> would be better on the plane, I switched it on and after a second or two
>> delay, bingo. The background noise of the erg (wind and bearing noise)
>> was greatly reduced. The TV which was turned up high so I could hear it
>> and it as producing a fair amount of hiss, suddenly became quite clear.
>> I could understand what was being said much more clearly.
>>
>> Do they do as well as those designed for pilots? I don't know, but I
>> am glad I bought the ones I have. I will buy a set for my girlfriend
>> before we head out on our next trip. Maybe I will be able to hear what
>> she is saying on the plane this time.
>>
>
>
>
> If the noise canceling is working properly you shouldn't be able to hear
> anything that she says.

Bose, like other consumer noise cancellers, are active up to about 3 kHz.
Most human speech is at or above this -- I can hear people speaking (and
babies crying) with mine on.


>
>
>>
>>>If you don't mind spending a little money, you might look at either
>>>video production intercom phones or headphones intended for use by
>>>pilots. Both of these use active noise-cancelling like the consumer
>>>phones, but they will, essentially, block most anything. I've used
>>>the video production phones before in concert environment, i.e. LOTS
>>>of really loud sounds, and they do an extraordinary job of taking
>>>things back. If anything, they're too good -- you have to get used
>>>to the effect, which is something like being in an acoustic black
>>>hole.
>>>
>>>"Jayne" <jane@no-spam.yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
>>>news:41fb4955$0$2201$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
>>>
>>>>Hello.
>>>>I live in a very noisy household. The train station is next door, the
>>>>airport is a 5 minute drive away, a boys high school across the
>>>>road, a primary school on the other side and construction sites
>>>>going up around me and council men working on roads and have been
>>>>for some time now, so I hear the planes, the trains, kids, jack
>>>>hammers, bulldozers, cranes, etc all day long. Then there's my
>>>>father who is half deaf and needs the TV very loud in order to
>>>>hear.. The noise is unbearable, especially when it comes to
>>>>studying, I can't concentrate with this noise.
>>>>Short of moving and sending my father to a nursing home, can anyone
>>>>please give me some pointers on noise cancelling headphones?
>>>>There are so many brands/kinds/specifications out there and as I am
>>>>female, I can't get an honest salesman who will tell me which is the
>>>>best without burning a hole in my pocket!!
>>>>
>>>>Are there headphones that block out sound completely, which is not
>>>>what I am expecting, but also that I shouldn't buy the headphones
>>>>used on airtravel as they won't be very ineffective.
>>>>
>>>>Are there different headphones that cater to noise cancelling
>>>>headphones? I was told that the airtravel anti-noise headphones are
>>>>different, can anyone explain why?
>>>>
>>>>If someone can provide a list of specs I should use when purchasing
>>>>noise cancelling headphones, it would help me catch our fibbing
>>>>salesmen!
>>>>
>>>>Thanks!
>>
>>
>
Anonymous
January 30, 2005 6:42:36 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.travel.air,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

"Jayne" <jane@no-spam.yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:41fb4955$0$2201$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
> Hello.
> I live in a very noisy household. The train station is next door, the
> airport is a 5 minute drive away, a boys high school across the road, a
> primary school on the other side and construction sites going up around
> me and council men working on roads and have been for some time now, so
> I hear the planes, the trains, kids, jack hammers, bulldozers, cranes,
> etc all day long. Then there's my father who is half deaf and needs the
> TV very loud in order to hear.. The noise is unbearable, especially when
> it comes to studying,--

1. get ear plugs ( of course)
2. get _head_ phones for you father. ( I did this with my kids)
3. Have one room that's _yours _ in that room have a loud white noise
machine or one that makes nice sounds.( great for naps)
4.I've learn to get up early ( and take naps) so I can practice and think.


FYI: I live across from all hell , in a very loud town, with two buildings
being built next two me I know how it's just wipes a person out! :>)

--
Peace,
Ed Bridge
Brooklyn N.Y.
http://www.bridgeclassicalguitars.com/.
Anonymous
January 30, 2005 12:27:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.travel.air,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

PTRAVEL wrote:

> Bose, like other consumer noise cancellers, are active up to about 3 kHz.
> Most human speech is at or above this -- I can hear people speaking (and
> babies crying) with mine on.

Most human speech is well below 3kHz.
Above that you just get harmonics and sibilance.
The reason you can hear people speaking is that Bose does not work well.
(Or are the voices just in your head, saying "Kill, kill!")

--
Eiron.
Anonymous
January 30, 2005 1:14:55 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.travel.air,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

Mark A wrote:

>>You need to brush up on your reading skills.
>>
>>1. NASA spent no money on it.
>>2. Pencil bits in zero gravity are at least an annoyance and can be
>>potentially dangerous (because graphite is conductive).
>>
>>RJ
>
>
> Also, as already noted, wood is flammable, a no-no in a space capsule. Of
> course one could use a mechanical pencil, but I pity the astronaut who would
> have to change the lead on a mechanical pencil in space. It's hard enough to
> do it on earth.

My last one auto-fed up to half a dozen - once one ran out, the next was
fed in. It's not that technical of a design - the thing must have
cost me all of $2.
Anonymous
January 30, 2005 1:14:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.travel.air,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

> My last one auto-fed up to half a dozen - once one ran out, the next was
> fed in. It's not that technical of a design - the thing must have
> cost me all of $2.
>
Those auto-feed mechanical pencils rely on gravity. Try turning it upside
down and see if it feeds.
Anonymous
January 30, 2005 1:30:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.travel.air,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

Eiron wrote:

> PTRAVEL wrote:
>
>> Bose, like other consumer noise cancellers, are active up to about 3
>> kHz. Most human speech is at or above this -- I can hear people
>> speaking (and babies crying) with mine on.
>
>
> Most human speech is well below 3kHz.
> Above that you just get harmonics and sibilance.
> The reason you can hear people speaking is that Bose does not work well.
> (Or are the voices just in your head, saying "Kill, kill!")

Bose is a cheap half-assed version of the technology, like
most of their stuff. They are made to work well with only
one thing - the noise of jet engines.

90% of people buy these for airplane flights, where the
whine makes it almost impossible to sleep.

But put a pair on and stand as close to the mall entrance
during a holiday shopping period. It doesn't really do much
to block the noise - just muffle it a bit.

Now, my cheap earmuffs that I used with my leafblower - they
made it impossible to hear anyone speak. Btw, that was the
loudest electric leafblower I've ever used. The thing had
a silly huge motor.
Anonymous
January 30, 2005 1:30:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.travel.air,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

"Joseph Oberlander" <josephoberlander@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:gH2Ld.1750
> Bose is a cheap half-assed version of the technology, like
> most of their stuff. They are made to work well with only
> one thing - the noise of jet engines.
>
> 90% of people buy these for airplane flights, where the
> whine makes it almost impossible to sleep.
>
> But put a pair on and stand as close to the mall entrance
> during a holiday shopping period. It doesn't really do much
> to block the noise - just muffle it a bit.
>
> Now, my cheap earmuffs that I used with my leafblower - they
> made it impossible to hear anyone speak. Btw, that was the
> loudest electric leafblower I've ever used. The thing had
> a silly huge motor.
>
Can you hear music or a movie soundtrack with your cheap earmuffs on?
Usually that is why people use headphones.

With most regular headphones, it is very difficult to follow the dialog on
an in-flight movie.
Anonymous
January 30, 2005 1:42:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.travel.air,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

Eiron wrote:
> PTRAVEL wrote:
>
>> Bose, like other consumer noise cancellers, are active up to about 3
>> kHz. Most human speech is at or above this -- I can hear people
>> speaking (and babies crying) with mine on.
>
> Most human speech is well below 3kHz.
> Above that you just get harmonics and sibilance.
> The reason you can hear people speaking is that Bose does not work
> well.

Define work well. Blocking engine noise and not voices is exactly what
I would describe as working well.



> (Or are the voices just in your head, saying "Kill, kill!")

--
Joseph Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math
January 30, 2005 6:00:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.travel.air,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

Arhah, a man with a thinking pencil :¬) ok sorry about that. But its nice
to see some lateral thinking on usenet instead of the usual oneupmanship or
should i spell that with a T ?

Chris.

"Mark A" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:Ktadnbo15Y5dXWbcRVn-iA@comcast.com...
> "Jayne" <jane@no-spam.yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> news:41fb4955$0$2201$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
> > Hello.
> > I live in a very noisy household. The train station is next door, the
> > airport is a 5 minute drive away, a boys high school across the road, a
> > primary school on the other side and construction sites going up around
> > me and council men working on roads and have been for some time now, so
> > I hear the planes, the trains, kids, jack hammers, bulldozers, cranes,
> > etc all day long. Then there's my father who is half deaf and needs the
> > TV very loud in order to hear.. The noise is unbearable, especially when
> > it comes to studying, I can't concentrate with this noise.
> > Short of moving and sending my father to a nursing home, can anyone
> > please give me some pointers on noise cancelling headphones?
> > There are so many brands/kinds/specifications out there and as I am
> > female, I can't get an honest salesman who will tell me which is the
> > best without burning a hole in my pocket!!
> >
> > Are there headphones that block out sound completely, which is not what
> > I am expecting, but also that I shouldn't buy the headphones used on
> > airtravel as they won't be very ineffective.
> >
> > Are there different headphones that cater to noise cancelling
> > headphones? I was told that the airtravel anti-noise headphones are
> > different, can anyone explain why?
> >
> > If someone can provide a list of specs I should use when purchasing
> > noise cancelling headphones, it would help me catch our fibbing
salesmen!
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> There are two ways to reduce outside noise in a headphone (and they are
not
> mutually exclusive):
>
> 1) Headphones that block outside noise by mechanical means, with large
> earpads or earbuds.
>
> 2) Headphones that use noise canceling circuitry (run by a battery) to
> cancel out noise by adding more noise to the signal (you can do some
> research at the Bose web site if you need a more technical explanation).
> These do work well in airplanes, which is the only place I have ever used
> them. If you turn off the circuitry, they function as normal headphones so
> you can definitely tell the difference. These come with normal earpads or
> earbuds, depending on the model.
>
> I have not tried the better earbuds, but I am assuming that they still do
no
> offer as good of bass response as large closed earpad headphones. But
maybe
> someone who has tried them can comment.
>
> Actually, you might want to get your father some wireless headphones for
the
> TV. That way you cold turn the sound down (or off) on the TV set.
>
>
Anonymous
January 30, 2005 6:35:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.travel.air,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

In article <QPmdnYZfBvdoUGHcRVn-hg@comcast.com> nobody@nowhere.com writes:

> Those auto-feed mechanical pencils rely on gravity. Try turning it upside
> down and see if it feeds.

You can have acceleration without gravity. Just shake it and it'll
feed.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
January 30, 2005 6:35:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.travel.air,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

> > Those auto-feed mechanical pencils rely on gravity. Try turning it
upside
> > down and see if it feeds.
>
> You can have acceleration without gravity. Just shake it and it'll
> feed.
>
Maybe. But the tips of the thin lead often break off, which is not good to
be flying around in a spacecraft. NASA is not stupid (and most of them are
engineers who used mechanical pencils frequently in the 1970's and 1980's),
and I think they know more about what is the best solution than any of us.
Anonymous
January 30, 2005 7:19:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.travel.air,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

Mark A said:

> Maybe. But the tips of the thin lead often break off, which is not good to
> be flying around in a spacecraft. NASA is not stupid (and most of them are
> engineers who used mechanical pencils frequently in the 1970's and 1980's),
> and I think they know more about what is the best solution than any of us.

Not to mention how much the best solutions should cost taxpayers.
Anonymous
January 30, 2005 7:19:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.travel.air,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

> Mark A said:
>
> > Maybe. But the tips of the thin lead often break off, which is not good
to
> > be flying around in a spacecraft. NASA is not stupid (and most of them
are
> > engineers who used mechanical pencils frequently in the 1970's and
1980's),
> > and I think they know more about what is the best solution than any of
us.
>
> Not to mention how much the best solutions should cost taxpayers.
>
Get your facts straight. The space pens cost NASA $2.95 each according to
the manufacturer. Probably made great souvenirs as well.

The manufacturer paid the R&D cost himself.
Anonymous
January 30, 2005 7:19:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.travel.air,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

In article m0ekg36acv.fsf@ripco.com, "Todd H." <bmiawmb@toddh.net> wrote:

>
> The point, in case you missed it, is that there are pitfalls in
> assuming that the most technical solution is necessarily the best. In
> this case, passive attenuation is likely to be more effective,
> simpler, and a lot cheaper than active noise cancellation.

It depends how you define "best".

Passive attenuation of low frequencies in particular requires very tight
seals on the head, necessitating very high clamping pressures. This
clamping pressure itself was found very fatiguing by commercial headphone
users, and led to the development of active noise cancellation systems.
These systems (which were pioneered by Bose) use active elements to cancel
the LF noise, and soft pliable cushions to seal the ears off to reduce HF
noise. Little clamping pressure is applied to the head.

Given that the mainstream commercial headphone makers adopted active systems
as their flagship products, I would say the market and users ruled in favour
of active and against passive-only systems.
Anonymous
January 31, 2005 12:36:43 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.travel.air,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

Mark A wrote:
>>>Those auto-feed mechanical pencils rely on gravity. Try turning it
>
> upside
>
>>>down and see if it feeds.
>>
>>You can have acceleration without gravity. Just shake it and it'll
>>feed.
>>
>
> Maybe. But the tips of the thin lead often break off, which is not good to
> be flying around in a spacecraft. NASA is not stupid (and most of them are
> engineers who used mechanical pencils frequently in the 1970's and 1980's),
> and I think they know more about what is the best solution than any of us.
>
>
And they _all_ had Dilbertesq pocket protectors.

Went there, saw them, but no T shirts on sale in the late 70s. That was
what you wore under a shirt in climes unlike Houston.
Anonymous
January 31, 2005 1:25:34 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.travel.air,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

"Mark A" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:UuWdnbx1R7-D0GDcRVn-oA@comcast.com...
: > > Those auto-feed mechanical pencils rely on gravity. Try turning it
: upside
: > > down and see if it feeds.
: >
: > You can have acceleration without gravity. Just shake it and it'll
: > feed.
: >
: Maybe. But the tips of the thin lead often break off, which is not good to
: be flying around in a spacecraft. NASA is not stupid (and most of them are
: engineers who used mechanical pencils frequently in the 1970's and 1980's),
: and I think they know more about what is the best solution than any of us.
:
Cannot agree with you there. That presupposes that those who know best
are also in the position to apply that knowledge. And *that* has more to do with
corporate structure.. (remember the O-rings?)

Rudy
!