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Share Your Snake Oil Story...

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March 3, 2005 8:43:04 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.marketplace (More info?)

I'm sure we all have our favorite snake oil story...

Mine comes from Lyric HiFi here in New York, when they tried to sell me
little coin size metallic stickers. At $250.00 each, they supposedly
improved the sound by "dampening the field-effect resonance" on your
individual components. What??? I could hardly contain my laughter!

Then there was the afternoon at Sound by Singer (a more appropriate
name for this rug merchant would be 'Sound by Swindler'), where he had
a customer convinced his prospective $500,000.00 system was so precise,
that one could actually distinguish between two identically titled CD's
- by the subtle differences on the pitted surface of the disk.

I'm not even going to start sharing what salesmen have said while
trying to sell me cables...

A_C

More about : share snake oil story

Anonymous
March 3, 2005 11:51:10 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.marketplace (More info?)

How about those pyramid cones to isolate speakers from the mounting
surface------
I've watched proponents wax on and on about which direction to put the
point-speaker or surface...



"Agent_C" <Agent-C-hates-spam@nyc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:1109857384.838439.189850@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> I'm sure we all have our favorite snake oil story...
>
> Mine comes from Lyric HiFi here in New York, when they tried to sell me
> little coin size metallic stickers. At $250.00 each, they supposedly
> improved the sound by "dampening the field-effect resonance" on your
> individual components. What??? I could hardly contain my laughter!
>
> Then there was the afternoon at Sound by Singer (a more appropriate
> name for this rug merchant would be 'Sound by Swindler'), where he had
> a customer convinced his prospective $500,000.00 system was so precise,
> that one could actually distinguish between two identically titled CD's
> - by the subtle differences on the pitted surface of the disk.
>
> I'm not even going to start sharing what salesmen have said while
> trying to sell me cables...
>
> A_C
>
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 12:06:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.marketplace (More info?)

"Dave Kowalski" <daveski@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:BIEVd.5929$qL.2107@fe12.lga

> How about those pyramid cones to isolate speakers from the mounting
> surface------

They can do a number on fine finshed floors. Oh, I get it - you need some
sort of magical thing to put under them for only $95.00 each or $395 for a
set of 4.

> I've watched proponents wax on and on about which direction to put the
> point-speaker or surface...

Yeah, some say that the pointy tip-toes under components act like mechanical
rectifiers. I would think that would be a bad thing - generates nonlinear
distortion.
Related resources
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 12:08:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.marketplace (More info?)

"Agent_C" <Agent-C-hates-spam@nyc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:1109857384.838439.189850@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
> I'm sure we all have our favorite snake oil story...

Recently I got John Atkinson of Stereophile to confirm that SP ran an
article about the sonic advantages of treating CDs with Armor All. In fact
the result was damaged CDs.
March 3, 2005 12:25:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.marketplace (More info?)

Agent_C wrote:
> I'm sure we all have our favorite snake oil story...
>
> Mine comes from Lyric HiFi here in New York, when they tried to sell
me
> little coin size metallic stickers. At $250.00 each, they supposedly
> improved the sound by "dampening the field-effect resonance" on your
> individual components. What??? I could hardly contain my laughter!
>
> Then there was the afternoon at Sound by Singer (a more appropriate
> name for this rug merchant would be 'Sound by Swindler'), where he
had
> a customer convinced his prospective $500,000.00 system was so
precise,
> that one could actually distinguish between two identically titled
CD's
> - by the subtle differences on the pitted surface of the disk.
>
> I'm not even going to start sharing what salesmen have said while
> trying to sell me cables...
>
> A_C


My favorites are those little teflon sticks being sold to audiofools to
support speaker cables up off and away from the lossy dielectric
plastic fibers in your carpet.

Mark
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 12:32:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.marketplace (More info?)

Agent_C <Agent-C-hates-spam@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>
>Then there was the afternoon at Sound by Singer (a more appropriate
>name for this rug merchant would be 'Sound by Swindler'), where he had
>a customer convinced his prospective $500,000.00 system was so precise,
>that one could actually distinguish between two identically titled CD's
>- by the subtle differences on the pitted surface of the disk.

But that's the case with nearly any playback system.

The pitted surface of the disk contains the data. You play back an early
pressing of an album mastered flat, then you play back a later pressing
that is compressed to hell, and there will sure be substantial audible
differences on the same title.

And those differences is because the data on the disc is different... on
the pitted surfaces. Okay, they aren't maybe subtle differences. In the
case of some albums they are anything BUT subtle....
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 12:47:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.marketplace (More info?)

"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
news:D 0776i$5pp$1@panix2.panix.com
> Agent_C <Agent-C-hates-spam@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>> Then there was the afternoon at Sound by Singer (a more appropriate
>> name for this rug merchant would be 'Sound by Swindler'), where he
>> had a customer convinced his prospective $500,000.00 system was so
>> precise, that one could actually distinguish between two identically
>> titled CD's - by the subtle differences on the pitted surface of the
>> disk.
>
> But that's the case with nearly any playback system.
>
> The pitted surface of the disk contains the data. You play back an
> early pressing of an album mastered flat, then you play back a later
> pressing that is compressed to hell, and there will sure be
> substantial audible differences on the same title.
>
> And those differences is because the data on the disc is different...
> on the pitted surfaces. Okay, they aren't maybe subtle differences.
> In the case of some albums they are anything BUT subtle....

Isn't this kinda begging the question, Scott?

What the high priests at Singer are claiming is that identical data on CDs
pressed right after each other with the same dies can be reasonably be
expected to sound different, due to the extreme resolution of their megabuck
CD players.

And you know what, I can prove this to be true. All it takes is a
properly-tuned finger print on one of the otherwise-identical CDs. If a
$30,000 or even a $3,000 sale were contingent, I might be tempted...
March 3, 2005 1:25:24 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.marketplace (More info?)

One of my personal favorites...oh yeah....these look like a good
investment...not!

Tekna Sonic C-5 BookShelf Speaker Enhancer - Pair $79.95

Even the finest speakers have cabinet vibrations that make bass notes muddy
or boomy, and distort the midrange. Now Tekna Sonic offers a simple solution
guaranteed to improve bass and midrange clarity. C-5 vibration absorbers
feature an array of polymer damping plates - selectively tuned to
frequencies in the 20-1kHz range - which attach magnetically to the back of
the speaker cabinet.


"Dave Kowalski" <daveski@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:BIEVd.5929$qL.2107@fe12.lga...
> How about those pyramid cones to isolate speakers from the mounting
> surface------
> I've watched proponents wax on and on about which direction to put the
> point-speaker or surface...
>
>
>
> "Agent_C" <Agent-C-hates-spam@nyc.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:1109857384.838439.189850@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > I'm sure we all have our favorite snake oil story...
> >
> > Mine comes from Lyric HiFi here in New York, when they tried to sell me
> > little coin size metallic stickers. At $250.00 each, they supposedly
> > improved the sound by "dampening the field-effect resonance" on your
> > individual components. What??? I could hardly contain my laughter!
> >
> > Then there was the afternoon at Sound by Singer (a more appropriate
> > name for this rug merchant would be 'Sound by Swindler'), where he had
> > a customer convinced his prospective $500,000.00 system was so precise,
> > that one could actually distinguish between two identically titled CD's
> > - by the subtle differences on the pitted surface of the disk.
> >
> > I'm not even going to start sharing what salesmen have said while
> > trying to sell me cables...
> >
> > A_C
> >
>
>
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 1:37:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.marketplace (More info?)

"Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:k42dndrOeqmch7rfRVn-sA@comcast.com...
> "Dave Kowalski" <daveski@optonline.net> wrote in message
> news:BIEVd.5929$qL.2107@fe12.lga
>
> > How about those pyramid cones to isolate speakers from the mounting
> > surface------
>
> They can do a number on fine finshed floors. Oh, I get it - you need some
> sort of magical thing to put under them for only $95.00 each or $395 for a
> set of 4.
>
> > I've watched proponents wax on and on about which direction to put the
> > point-speaker or surface...
>
> Yeah, some say that the pointy tip-toes under components act like
mechanical
> rectifiers. I would think that would be a bad thing - generates nonlinear
> distortion.
>

ever hear if the "lunar gravity compensator" for tone arms? this cam comes
with a tide chart and is used to adjust tracking force to compensate for the
slight gravitational pull of the moon.
March 3, 2005 3:05:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

You're being sarcastic right? I believe a tube preamp will actually
sound a little 'warmer' than a solid state one.

A_C
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 3:29:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.marketplace (More info?)

TimPerry wrote:
> "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message
> news:k42dndrOeqmch7rfRVn-sA@comcast.com...
>
>>"Dave Kowalski" <daveski@optonline.net> wrote in message
>>news:BIEVd.5929$qL.2107@fe12.lga
>>
>>
>>>How about those pyramid cones to isolate speakers from the mounting
>>>surface------
>>
>>They can do a number on fine finshed floors. Oh, I get it - you need some
>>sort of magical thing to put under them for only $95.00 each or $395 for a
>>set of 4.
>>
>>
>>>I've watched proponents wax on and on about which direction to put the
>>>point-speaker or surface...
>>
>>Yeah, some say that the pointy tip-toes under components act like
>
> mechanical
>
>>rectifiers. I would think that would be a bad thing - generates nonlinear
>>distortion.
>>
>
>
> ever hear if the "lunar gravity compensator" for tone arms? this cam comes
> with a tide chart and is used to adjust tracking force to compensate for the
> slight gravitational pull of the moon.
>
>
>
So THAT's why my turntable sounds funny when I'm playing it on the
beach, and it always co-incided with high tide;)

Oh, and the sand inside my motor bearings, do they have something for
that, too?

CD
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 3:29:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <1109857384.838439.189850@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> Agent-C-hates-spam@nyc.rr.com writes:

> I'm sure we all have our favorite snake oil story...

Someone once tried to sell me a tube mic preamp. Said it would warm up
all my recordings.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 3:54:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:znr1109863828k@trad
> In article <1109857384.838439.189850@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
> Agent-C-hates-spam@nyc.rr.com writes:
>
>> I'm sure we all have our favorite snake oil story...
>
> Someone once tried to sell me a tube mic preamp. Said it would warm up
> all my recordings.

If a tube mic preamp makes your recordings sound warmer with 6.3 volts on
the tube's filament, would applying 63 volts to the filament make your
recordings sound even warmer? ;-)
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 3:54:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> If a tube mic preamp makes your recordings sound warmer with 6.3 volts on
> the tube's filament, would applying 63 volts to the filament make your
> recordings sound even warmer? ;-)

or maybe make your studio a little warmer when it starts a fire =)

--

Jonny Durango

"Patrick was a saint. I ain't."

http://www.jdurango.com



"Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:wdydnTQzJd_60rrfRVn-tw@comcast.com...
> "Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
> news:znr1109863828k@trad
> > In article <1109857384.838439.189850@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
> > Agent-C-hates-spam@nyc.rr.com writes:
> >
> >> I'm sure we all have our favorite snake oil story...
> >
> > Someone once tried to sell me a tube mic preamp. Said it would warm up
> > all my recordings.
>
> If a tube mic preamp makes your recordings sound warmer with 6.3 volts on
> the tube's filament, would applying 63 volts to the filament make your
> recordings sound even warmer? ;-)
>
>
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 4:25:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.marketplace (More info?)

Jim Gilliland wrote:
> Agent_C wrote:
> > I'm sure we all have our favorite snake oil story...
> >
>
> Some of my favorite snake oil products have come from the Shakti
company:
>
> http://www.shakti-innovations.com/audiovideo.htm
>
> They not only improve your audio, but the same technology will make
your
> car run better!
>
> http://www.shakti-innovations.com/automotive.htm
>
> And here's their latest innovation:
>
> http://www.shakti-innovations.com/hallograph.htm

Those things improve the sound in the room so much that they make it
*look* like there's a violin in the room with you! Amazing.

Karl Winkler
Lectrsonics, Inc.
http://www.lectrsonics.com
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 4:37:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.marketplace (More info?)

On 3 Mar 2005 13:25:07 -0800, "Karl Winkler" <karlwinkler66@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>
>Jim Gilliland wrote:
>> Agent_C wrote:
>> > I'm sure we all have our favorite snake oil story...
>> >
>>
>> Some of my favorite snake oil products have come from the Shakti
>company:
>>
>> http://www.shakti-innovations.com/audiovideo.htm
>>
>> They not only improve your audio, but the same technology will make
>your
>> car run better!
>>
>> http://www.shakti-innovations.com/automotive.htm
>>
>> And here's their latest innovation:
>>
>> http://www.shakti-innovations.com/hallograph.htm
>
>Those things improve the sound in the room so much that they make it
>*look* like there's a violin in the room with you! Amazing.

They had to have something real in the picture to give it some cred.

Al
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 5:05:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.marketplace (More info?)

"Codifus" <codifus@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:D 07h63$q2$1@news.interpublic.com...
> TimPerry wrote:
> > "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message
> > news:k42dndrOeqmch7rfRVn-sA@comcast.com...
> >
> >>"Dave Kowalski" <daveski@optonline.net> wrote in message
> >>news:BIEVd.5929$qL.2107@fe12.lga
> >>
> >>
> >>>How about those pyramid cones to isolate speakers from the mounting
> >>>surface------
> >>
> >>They can do a number on fine finshed floors. Oh, I get it - you need
some
> >>sort of magical thing to put under them for only $95.00 each or $395 for
a
> >>set of 4.
> >>
> >>
> >>>I've watched proponents wax on and on about which direction to put the
> >>>point-speaker or surface...
> >>
> >>Yeah, some say that the pointy tip-toes under components act like
> >
> > mechanical
> >
> >>rectifiers. I would think that would be a bad thing - generates
nonlinear
> >>distortion.
> >>
> >
> >
> > ever hear if the "lunar gravity compensator" for tone arms? this cam
comes
> > with a tide chart and is used to adjust tracking force to compensate for
the
> > slight gravitational pull of the moon.
> >
> >
> >
> So THAT's why my turntable sounds funny when I'm playing it on the
> beach, and it always co-incided with high tide;)
>
> Oh, and the sand inside my motor bearings, do they have something for
> that, too?
>
> CD

remember the "ZeroStat" gun for records?

all you need is the Megastat Cannon (tm) to create an instant static
repulsion field for ANY electronic device. perfect for drunken beach
parties. as an added feature the Megastat Cannon (tm) actually attracts
topless babes.
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 5:05:48 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.marketplace (More info?)

"TimPerry" <timperry@noaspamadelphia.net> wrote in message
news:zvadnZi5B4KR_brfRVn-iQ@adelphia.com...
>
> "Codifus" <codifus@optonline.net> wrote in message
> news:D 07h63$q2$1@news.interpublic.com...
>> TimPerry wrote:
>> > "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message
>> > news:k42dndrOeqmch7rfRVn-sA@comcast.com...
>> >
>> >>"Dave Kowalski" <daveski@optonline.net> wrote in message
>> >>news:BIEVd.5929$qL.2107@fe12.lga
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>How about those pyramid cones to isolate speakers from the mounting
>> >>>surface------
>> >>
>> >>They can do a number on fine finshed floors. Oh, I get it - you need
> some
>> >>sort of magical thing to put under them for only $95.00 each or $395
>> >>for
> a
>> >>set of 4.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>I've watched proponents wax on and on about which direction to put the
>> >>>point-speaker or surface...
>> >>
>> >>Yeah, some say that the pointy tip-toes under components act like
>> >
>> > mechanical
>> >
>> >>rectifiers. I would think that would be a bad thing - generates
> nonlinear
>> >>distortion.
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > ever hear if the "lunar gravity compensator" for tone arms? this cam
> comes
>> > with a tide chart and is used to adjust tracking force to compensate
>> > for
> the
>> > slight gravitational pull of the moon.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> So THAT's why my turntable sounds funny when I'm playing it on the
>> beach, and it always co-incided with high tide;)
>>
>> Oh, and the sand inside my motor bearings, do they have something for
>> that, too?
>>
>> CD
>
> remember the "ZeroStat" gun for records?
>
> all you need is the Megastat Cannon (tm) to create an instant static
> repulsion field for ANY electronic device. perfect for drunken beach
> parties. as an added feature the Megastat Cannon (tm) actually attracts
> topless babes.
>
>

Yeeeeaaaah baby! I have a stat cannon in my pile-o-laughter here in my
office!!!

Chad
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 5:19:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.marketplace (More info?)

>
> My favorites are those little teflon sticks being sold to audiofools to
> support speaker cables up off and away from the lossy dielectric
> plastic fibers in your carpet.
>
> Mark
>

hey that a new one! where can i see it?
March 3, 2005 5:21:49 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.marketplace (More info?)

TimPerry wrote:
> >
> > My favorites are those little teflon sticks being sold to
audiofools to
> > support speaker cables up off and away from the lossy dielectric
> > plastic fibers in your carpet.
> >
> > Mark
> >
>
> hey that a new one! where can i see it?

http://www.xit.net/kenan/testimonials.htm

or google these keywords

"speaker cables" "off the floor"

its off the wall if you ask me :-)

Mark
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 5:23:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Arny Krueger" wrote

> > I'm sure we all have our favorite snake oil story...
>
> Recently I got John Atkinson of Stereophile to confirm
> that SP ran an article about the sonic advantages of
> treating CDs with Armor All. In fact the result was
> damaged CDs.
>
Is that what you and Atkinson are going to debate at the
show... Armor All?
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 5:54:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.marketplace (More info?)

Agent_C wrote:
> I'm sure we all have our favorite snake oil story...
>

Some of my favorite snake oil products have come from the Shakti company:

http://www.shakti-innovations.com/audiovideo.htm

They not only improve your audio, but the same technology will make your
car run better!

http://www.shakti-innovations.com/automotive.htm

And here's their latest innovation:

http://www.shakti-innovations.com/hallograph.htm
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 5:54:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.marketplace (More info?)

I think someone needs to collect all this stuff and put it on one
website... www.audiofraud.org or something. It would be a public
service.

Al

On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 14:54:38 -0500, Jim Gilliland
<usemylastname@cheerful.com> wrote:

>Agent_C wrote:
>> I'm sure we all have our favorite snake oil story...
>>
>
>Some of my favorite snake oil products have come from the Shakti company:
>
>http://www.shakti-innovations.com/audiovideo.htm
>
>They not only improve your audio, but the same technology will make your
>car run better!
>
>http://www.shakti-innovations.com/automotive.htm
>
>And here's their latest innovation:
>
>http://www.shakti-innovations.com/hallograph.htm
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 6:21:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Agent_C <Agent-C-hates-spam@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
>You're being sarcastic right? I believe a tube preamp will actually
>sound a little 'warmer' than a solid state one.

And what makes you think that? Other than marketing, of course.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 6:26:24 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Powell wrote:
> "Arny Krueger" wrote
> > Recently I got John Atkinson of Stereophile to confirm
> > that SP ran an article about the sonic advantages of
> > treating CDs with Armor All.

I answered Mr. Krueger's question as soon as I saw his
posting. I guess that is what he mean by "getting" me to
confirm this fact. Contarry to his implication, I didn't
have anything to hide.

> > In fact the result was damaged CDs.

As I pointed out, damaged from the scratches that could result
from the ArmorAll application. These scratches can be polished out.

> Is that what you and Atkinson are going to debate at the
> show... Armor All?

I did assure Mr. Krueger that he could raise any subject he felt
relevant.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 7:18:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Paul Stamler wrote:
> Some of you may be old enough to remember the "deltoid test" flap. In
the
> early days of digital recording, a clinical psychologist (was his
name
> Diamond?) claimed that digital recordings agitated his patients,
while
> analog recordings calmed them. He proved that by employing the
"deltoid
> test", borrowed from chiropractic.
>
> In that test, the subject stands with arms outstretched; the
experimenter
> suddenly presses downward. Whether or not the subject can resist
tells the
> experimenter something about his/her muscle tone, and presumably
other
> things like stress level. The good doctor found that when subjects
listened
> to digital recordings, they showed much lower muscle tone than when
they
> listened to analog recordings.
>
> Now, it's not entirely outside of the realm of possibility that
digital
> recordings might have subtle physiological effects. And it's
certainly
> possible that the deltoid test might be detecting real physiological
> effects, whether or not they might be connected to what the subject
was
> listening to.
>
> But when the doctor cautioned that it was well-known in the world of
> chiropractic that the effects of the deltoid test would be skewed if
there
> was refined sugar anywhere in the room, that's when it was time for
the
> horselaugh.

I had a great chiropractor many years ago who was very good
actually, he did this test with me. And sure enough I reacted
negatively with a weakened arm to sugar, white flour, citrus, all the
usual suspects. Until we got to *coffee*. For that, my arm never
moved an inch and I lost no muscle strength whatsoever, solid as a
rock!

"Apparently your body likes coffee" Dr. Sheftick said more than a
little surprised. He went on to explain to me that this was just a
convenient method to ask a person's unconcious mind directly what it
likes and does not like, bypassing the conscious mind and inquiring of
the organic. Apparently the unconcious mind controls the sympathetic
nervous system which then can move your body parts. He postulated that
I might have had somewhat of an underactive thyroid, and that coffee
was something my body found useful in compensating for that.

And I wasn't yet drinking a pot of coffee a day and working 100 hour
weeks as a Studio assistant back then either, that came later.

Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Staff Audio / Fox News / M-AES
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 7:26:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

At the last Stereophile writers' meeting I attended, at least 15 years ago, John
Atkinson asked an intelligent question. To wit...

"Why is it that some mounts are supposed to isolate the amp/CD player, etc, from
the surface they're on, while others couple it tightly to the surface (cones, in
particular), yet both approaches claim improved sound?"

I suggested that one way to find out would be to play an impulse from a CD
through a speaker in front of the player. (A similar experiment to test
amplifiers could be done with a pulse generator feeding the amp.) You could then
look at the pulse's spectrum and decay (at the player's or amp's output) using a
variety of isolation devices, no isolation at all, and with no speaker at all
(as a reference). This should show whether CD players, etc, are meaningfully
microphonic, and whether isolation devices have any effect.

John thought that was a good idea. Then he said the thing that forever made me
lose respect for his "understanding" of science.

"But what if there's no difference between the isolating devices?"

In case this isn't clear... You don't assume the result before performing an
experiment. Indeed, it's often better to perform an experiment simply to see
what happens, rather than trying to "prove" or "disprove" something.

I doubt that John ever performed the experiment. I am guilty, too, of failing to
follow through on subjective observations with controlled experiments.
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 7:31:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

>> Someone once tried to sell me a tube mic preamp. Said it would warm up
>> all my recordings.

> If a tube mic preamp makes your recordings sound warmer with 6.3 volts on
> the tube's filament, would applying 63 volts to the filament make your
> recordings sound even warmer? ;-)

Arny, do you believe that, in general, tube and transistor amplification _do
not_ sound different?
March 3, 2005 8:15:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.marketplace (More info?)

On 3/3/05 8:51 AM, in article BIEVd.5929$qL.2107@fe12.lga, "Dave Kowalski"
<daveski@optonline.net> wrote:

> How about those pyramid cones to isolate speakers from the mounting
> surface------
> I've watched proponents wax on and on about which direction to put the
> point-speaker or surface...
>
>
>
> "Agent_C" <Agent-C-hates-spam@nyc.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:1109857384.838439.189850@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> I'm sure we all have our favorite snake oil story...
>>
>> Mine comes from Lyric HiFi here in New York, when they tried to sell me
>> little coin size metallic stickers. At $250.00 each, they supposedly
>> improved the sound by "dampening the field-effect resonance" on your
>> individual components. What??? I could hardly contain my laughter!
>>
>> Then there was the afternoon at Sound by Singer (a more appropriate
>> name for this rug merchant would be 'Sound by Swindler'), where he had
>> a customer convinced his prospective $500,000.00 system was so precise,
>> that one could actually distinguish between two identically titled CD's
>> - by the subtle differences on the pitted surface of the disk.
>>
>> I'm not even going to start sharing what salesmen have said while
>> trying to sell me cables...

I confess to having a set of these ceramic doodads for my little Tannoys,
bought soley because the Tannoy tech folks said they indeed were worth
having. At $5 a set I wasn;t worried for the experiment.
I'm still not sure if the black ones sound darker than the brown ones.
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 8:15:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.marketplace (More info?)

"John" <ssconmag1@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:BE4CB07D.215B%ssconmag1@verizon.net...
> On 3/3/05 8:51 AM, in article BIEVd.5929$qL.2107@fe12.lga, "Dave Kowalski"
> <daveski@optonline.net> wrote:
>
> > How about those pyramid cones to isolate speakers from the mounting
> > surface------
> > I've watched proponents wax on and on about which direction to put the
> > point-speaker or surface...
> >
> >
> >
> > "Agent_C" <Agent-C-hates-spam@nyc.rr.com> wrote in message
> > news:1109857384.838439.189850@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >> I'm sure we all have our favorite snake oil story...
> >>
> >> Mine comes from Lyric HiFi here in New York, when they tried to sell me
> >> little coin size metallic stickers. At $250.00 each, they supposedly
> >> improved the sound by "dampening the field-effect resonance" on your
> >> individual components. What??? I could hardly contain my laughter!
> >>
> >> Then there was the afternoon at Sound by Singer (a more appropriate
> >> name for this rug merchant would be 'Sound by Swindler'), where he had
> >> a customer convinced his prospective $500,000.00 system was so precise,
> >> that one could actually distinguish between two identically titled CD's
> >> - by the subtle differences on the pitted surface of the disk.
> >>
> >> I'm not even going to start sharing what salesmen have said while
> >> trying to sell me cables...
>
> I confess to having a set of these ceramic doodads for my little Tannoys,
> bought soley because the Tannoy tech folks said they indeed were worth
> having. At $5 a set I wasn;t worried for the experiment.
> I'm still not sure if the black ones sound darker than the brown ones.
>

they probably sound "warmer" as the black exterior absorbs more heat and as
we all know a warmer objects molecules move faster. ... maybe nickel plated
ones are needed for heavy metal music?
March 3, 2005 8:18:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.marketplace (More info?)

On 3/3/05 10:37 AM, in article FsmdnZRJjNelsrrfRVn-tw@adelphia.com,
"TimPerry" <timperry@noaspamadelphia.net> wrote:

>
> "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message
> news:k42dndrOeqmch7rfRVn-sA@comcast.com...
>> "Dave Kowalski" <daveski@optonline.net> wrote in message
>> news:BIEVd.5929$qL.2107@fe12.lga
>>
>>> How about those pyramid cones to isolate speakers from the mounting
>>> surface------
>>
>> They can do a number on fine finshed floors. Oh, I get it - you need some
>> sort of magical thing to put under them for only $95.00 each or $395 for a
>> set of 4.
>>
>>> I've watched proponents wax on and on about which direction to put the
>>> point-speaker or surface...
>>
>> Yeah, some say that the pointy tip-toes under components act like
> mechanical
>> rectifiers. I would think that would be a bad thing - generates nonlinear
>> distortion.
>>
>
> ever hear if the "lunar gravity compensator" for tone arms? this cam comes
> with a tide chart and is used to adjust tracking force to compensate for the
> slight gravitational pull of the moon.

Ummmmm... Wouldn;t a properly dynamically ballanced tone arm NOT CARE...?
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 8:28:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.marketplace (More info?)

In rec.audio.tech Arny Krueger <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote:
> "Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
> news:D 0776i$5pp$1@panix2.panix.com
> > Agent_C <Agent-C-hates-spam@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Then there was the afternoon at Sound by Singer (a more appropriate
> >> name for this rug merchant would be 'Sound by Swindler'), where he
> >> had a customer convinced his prospective $500,000.00 system was so
> >> precise, that one could actually distinguish between two identically
> >> titled CD's - by the subtle differences on the pitted surface of the
> >> disk.
> >
> > But that's the case with nearly any playback system.
> >
> > The pitted surface of the disk contains the data. You play back an
> > early pressing of an album mastered flat, then you play back a later
> > pressing that is compressed to hell, and there will sure be
> > substantial audible differences on the same title.
> >
> > And those differences is because the data on the disc is different...
> > on the pitted surfaces. Okay, they aren't maybe subtle differences.
> > In the case of some albums they are anything BUT subtle....

> Isn't this kinda begging the question, Scott?

> What the high priests at Singer are claiming is that identical data on CDs
> pressed right after each other with the same dies can be reasonably be
> expected to sound different, due to the extreme resolution of their megabuck
> CD players.

*Possibly* the Singer folk claim that too -- having shopped in the NYC
hi-end dens, I won't put anything past Singer
and Lyric, veritable temples of tweakdom and snake-oil -- but Agent C
only said the CDs were *identically titled* -- which
could include remastered CDs, which certainly do tend to sound different from
previous editions....and have different pits too ;> That's what Scott
is getting at.

Of course even a $500 system, or a $15 portable discman, could reveal
audible difference between many remastered CDs...

--

-S
It's not my business to do intelligent work. -- D. Rumsfeld, testifying
before the House Armed Services Committee
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 8:34:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

The most outrageous and shameless
snake-oil site I've been pointed to recently is:

http://www.machinadynamica.com/

the home of
BRILLIANT PEBBLES
basically, a jar of rocks
"It's no exaggeration to say that with the Pebbles in place
regular CDs now sound better than SACDs did before." -- Gabriel G., PhD

the INTELLIGENT CHIP:
"Machina Dynamica now carries the amazing Intelligent Chip, an emerging technology device that improves CD sound quality
in the blink of an eye. The Intelligent Chip is a thin, 1-inch square orange wafer that automatically upgrades any
CD/DVD/SACD disc when the Chip is placed momentarily on the top surface of the player while the disc is playing."


and the MAGIC RING
"Description/Theory: The Magic Ring (Standard size) is a 1 3/4-lb, dark metallic-gray, thick-walled cylinder with OD =
2.5 inch, L = 2.5 inches and H = 2.75 inches (including flat base). The Large Magic Ring weighs 2 1/4 lb and is slightly
larger than the standard size Ring. The Magic Ring and Large Magic Ring are intended to be used with speaker cables,
power cords and interconnects, as well as in proximity to electronic components. The Magic Ring operates on the
principle of "energy organization" in materials that conduct "signal" or electricity, as opposed to magnetism or
vibration control. The Magic Ring illuminates and expands the soundstage, lowers distortion and improves dynamics,
especially microdynamics. Surprisingly, bass performance is also improved quite a bit. "





--

-S
It's not my business to do intelligent work. -- D. Rumsfeld, testifying
before the House Armed Services Committee
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 8:34:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

"Steven Sullivan" <ssully@panix.com> wrote in message
news:D 07hqs$gu$7@reader2.panix.com...
> The most outrageous and shameless
> snake-oil site I've been pointed to recently is:
>
> http://www.machinadynamica.com/
>
> the home of
> BRILLIANT PEBBLES
> basically, a jar of rocks
> "It's no exaggeration to say that with the Pebbles in place
> regular CDs now sound better than SACDs did before." -- Gabriel G., PhD
>
> the INTELLIGENT CHIP:
> "Machina Dynamica now carries the amazing Intelligent Chip, an emerging
> technology device that improves CD sound quality
> in the blink of an eye. The Intelligent Chip is a thin, 1-inch square
> orange wafer that automatically upgrades any
> CD/DVD/SACD disc when the Chip is placed momentarily on the top surface of
> the player while the disc is playing."
>
>
> and the MAGIC RING
> "Description/Theory: The Magic Ring (Standard size) is a 1 3/4-lb, dark
> metallic-gray, thick-walled cylinder with OD =
> 2.5 inch, L = 2.5 inches and H = 2.75 inches (including flat base). The
> Large Magic Ring weighs 2 1/4 lb and is slightly
> larger than the standard size Ring. The Magic Ring and Large Magic Ring
> are intended to be used with speaker cables,
> power cords and interconnects, as well as in proximity to electronic
> components. The Magic Ring operates on the
> principle of "energy organization" in materials that conduct "signal" or
> electricity, as opposed to magnetism or
> vibration control. The Magic Ring illuminates and expands the soundstage,
> lowers distortion and improves dynamics,
> especially microdynamics. Surprisingly, bass performance is also improved
> quite a bit. "
>


I dig the ultra tweeters. Special cables my ass, Heliax maybe! Because of
the inductance of ANY stranded cable, let alone the output tranny or the
emitter resistors there ain't no giga nothing getting there!!!

Chad
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 8:34:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

"Steven Sullivan" <ssully@panix.com> wrote in message
news:D 07hqs$gu$7@reader2.panix.com...
> The most outrageous and shameless
> snake-oil site I've been pointed to recently is:
>
> http://www.machinadynamica.com/

Good God. I kept hoping it was all some sort of bizarre joke...

Bob M.
March 3, 2005 8:34:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 17:34:21 +0000 (UTC), Steven Sullivan
<ssully@panix.com> wrote:

>the INTELLIGENT CHIP:
>"Machina Dynamica now carries the amazing Intelligent Chip, an emerging technology device that improves CD sound quality
>in the blink of an eye. The Intelligent Chip is a thin, 1-inch square orange wafer that automatically upgrades any
>CD/DVD/SACD disc when the Chip is placed momentarily on the top surface of the player while the disc is playing."

OK, this is the MOST ridiculous thing I've ever heard...

However, someone should tell this guy he's got these way under-priced.
Anyone that would believe that nonsense would also be willing to pay
at least $1000 for one of them.

A_C
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 8:43:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.marketplace (More info?)

On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 09:06:57 -0500, "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com>
wrote:

>"Dave Kowalski" <daveski@optonline.net> wrote in message
>news:BIEVd.5929$qL.2107@fe12.lga
>
>> How about those pyramid cones to isolate speakers from the mounting
>> surface------
>
>They can do a number on fine finshed floors. Oh, I get it - you need some
>sort of magical thing to put under them for only $95.00 each or $395 for a
>set of 4.

Kruger Rands would surely be the best? :-)
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 9:03:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Our whole society has the biggest snake oil jones of all....that the
new and improved consumer product really _ is_ an improvement. Usually
each new generation of consumer product-and often commercial ones as
well- are mixed improvements. Ask any VCR tech (I should say _former_
VCR tech) who will explained how the early toploaders were nearly
indestructible and highly repairable with crude electronic performance,
the early frontloaders were well made and superior in performance, and
current ones are low end shitboxes that are not even worth opening for
cleaning, they are totally nonrepairable plus being inferior
electronically. TV sets and car radios have worse RF sections than late
tube and mid-life solid state ones. Cars have engine and transmission
castings far less rugged and rebuildable than cars of 40, 30, or even
20 years ago.
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 9:04:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

In rec.audio.tech Steven Sullivan <ssully@panix.com> wrote:
> The most outrageous and shameless
> snake-oil site I've been pointed to recently is:
>
> http://www.machinadynamica.com/

Damn, you beat me to it!

I particularly like the fact that the magic chip is a consumable item.
"Fool you once, shame on me. Fool you twice, and I'll start a business."

I figure that someone with an equal mix of cynicism and ethics decided to
get into the tweaker market, but decided to come up with something so utterly
outrageous that they couldn't feel guilty about fooling anyone incredulous
enough to believe them.

Colin
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 9:46:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

Some of you may be old enough to remember the "deltoid test" flap. In the
early days of digital recording, a clinical psychologist (was his name
Diamond?) claimed that digital recordings agitated his patients, while
analog recordings calmed them. He proved that by employing the "deltoid
test", borrowed from chiropractic.

In that test, the subject stands with arms outstretched; the experimenter
suddenly presses downward. Whether or not the subject can resist tells the
experimenter something about his/her muscle tone, and presumably other
things like stress level. The good doctor found that when subjects listened
to digital recordings, they showed much lower muscle tone than when they
listened to analog recordings.

Now, it's not entirely outside of the realm of possibility that digital
recordings might have subtle physiological effects. And it's certainly
possible that the deltoid test might be detecting real physiological
effects, whether or not they might be connected to what the subject was
listening to.

But when the doctor cautioned that it was well-known in the world of
chiropractic that the effects of the deltoid test would be skewed if there
was refined sugar anywhere in the room, that's when it was time for the
horselaugh.

Peace,
Paul
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 10:11:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

Steven Sullivan wrote:
> The most outrageous and shameless
> snake-oil site I've been pointed to recently is:
>
> http://www.machinadynamica.com/

I like <http://www.machinadynamica.com/Bob_Nimbus2.JPG&gt; best. It shows
these people spend thousands on equipment of questionable quality and
exactly _zero_ on room treatment.

Oh no, wait - the sofa in front is a special sofa that removes subsonic
vibrations (from 0 to 0.1 Hz) so that the music will have more air,
ambiance and three dimensional sound stage. Great.

And that rock in front of the sofa acts as a supersonic diffusor for
effortless, extended treble, enhanced details, authoritative bass,
better transient response.

(Marketing blabla stolen from <http://www.dhcones.com&gt;)

Johann, f'up to r.a.p.
--
> Dann frage ich mich nur, wieso neben seinem Telefonbucheintrag "hors
> service" steht.
Ich verstehe nicht, warum dich ein a. D. abhaelt, denjenigen
anzurufen (...) (Roman Racine und *Tönnes in dag°)
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 10:15:48 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.marketplace (More info?)

Here is one I made up once:

WAVE ENHANCE is an antispurious ion wave charged aerosol spray to
improve the
acoustic wave transmission in any normal listening room. Just spray
this
special aerosol formula before any intense listening session and you
won't
believe the improvement in sound wave transmission. Deeper lows,
smoother mids
and oh such sweet highs that give you the tingles. Many high end
speaker
manufacturers were spraying their listening rooms with our spray at the
last
CES.


Only $12.99 per 12 oz can.


OK, this was JUST A JOKE for all you guys who debate speaker wire and
cable
sound! Hope you enjoyed it.


Now for some SERIOUS used audio deals please visit:


http://members.aol.com/KDresch/audio.net.html
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 10:17:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Yeah but when they do break-they're done for. Or at least that
assembly is.

The small block Chevy is still in production (as the GM corporate Gen
III V8) but there's nothing inherently better about the core engine
being produced today. Anyone who builds hot rod or racing engines
prefers the Gen I blocks, heads, cranks and rods over the new ones.
They do last longer in the stock application because EFI engines don't
dribble raw gas over the cylinder walls during shutdown, and because
oils and filters have improved. But with modern closed loop EFI and a
catalyst just about any old engine would meet today's emissions
standards.

Now when a car refuses to start it is generally summarily towed to the
dealer. Tow fees are at an all time high although most people have
motor club towing.

As has been pointed out a large number of electronics geniuses drive
old nonelectronic cars. Pease has his VW and Jim Williams used todrive
an Alfa of pre-Graduate vintage. Of course, they live in California.
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 10:42:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.marketplace (More info?)

On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 05:43:04 -0800, Agent_C wrote:

> I'm sure we all have our favorite snake oil story...
>

When I was a kid back in the early 70's, I went with a fellow audiophile
friend of mine to BrandsMart which was a place where you needed a
membership card to get in.
We went to the audio section and they had quite a selection of equipment
there at all price ranges.

Anyway, my friend wanted to buy some speakers so we were audtioning all
the ones on this giant wall of speakers with this remote control thing
that allowed us to switch between various models.

He like the sound of some mid-line BOSE speakers, not the 901's, but some
box model like 601 or 301 or something like that.
We commented to the salesman who happened to be this black guy who looked
exactly like Nipsey Russel or Dr. J of the Nets that the sound seemed to
be coming from everywhere when we switched to the Bose speakers.

He blurted out in this 1970's ghetto accent "Maaaannnnnn THAT'S da TRICK
of Da BOSE"!!!!!

We quickly figured out that the "trick of the Bose" was having another 10
speakers playing at the same time!!!!!

I'll never forget it!!!

BTW he bought a set of Advents and the guy gave him a great deal on them,
but it was very funny at the time!



--
Glenn O'Toole

"Lounge Lizard Extraordinaire
and
master of the bagpipes"
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 10:44:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.marketplace (More info?)

On 3 Mar 2005 05:43:04 -0800, "Agent_C" <Agent-C-hates-spam@nyc.rr.com>
wrote:

>I'm sure we all have our favorite snake oil story...
>
Here is my partial collection. About 0.01% of what is out there.

http://www.amusicdirect.com/products/detail.asp?cat=380...
http://gallery.consumerreview.com/audio/gallery/files/o...
http://www.bybeetech.com/
http://www.amusicdirect.com/products/detail.asp?cat=280...
http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina27.htm
http://www.altmann.haan.de/tubeolator/default.htm
http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina28.htm
http://www.scamshield.com/Feature.asp?id=1



Regards,

Boris Mohar

Got Knock? - see:
Viatrack Printed Circuit Designs (among other things) http://www.viatrack.ca
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 11:16:48 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.marketplace (More info?)

"play on" <playonAT@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:kr0f21p5qd6iiu3up5r06oo4tno9ah02n8@4ax.com...
> On 3 Mar 2005 13:25:07 -0800, "Karl Winkler" <karlwinkler66@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >Jim Gilliland wrote:
> >> Agent_C wrote:
> >> > I'm sure we all have our favorite snake oil story...
> >> >
> >>
> >> Some of my favorite snake oil products have come from the Shakti
> >company:
> >>
> >> http://www.shakti-innovations.com/audiovideo.htm
> >>
> >> They not only improve your audio, but the same technology will make
> >your
> >> car run better!
> >>
> >> http://www.shakti-innovations.com/automotive.htm
> >>
> >> And here's their latest innovation:
> >>
> >> http://www.shakti-innovations.com/hallograph.htm
> >
> >Those things improve the sound in the room so much that they make it
> >*look* like there's a violin in the room with you! Amazing.
>
> They had to have something real in the picture to give it some cred.
>
> Al

the violin was just there to string you along
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 11:20:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

In rec.audio.tech Colin B. <cbigam@somewhereelse.nucleus.com> wrote:
> In rec.audio.tech Steven Sullivan <ssully@panix.com> wrote:
> > The most outrageous and shameless
> > snake-oil site I've been pointed to recently is:
> >
> > http://www.machinadynamica.com/

> Damn, you beat me to it!

> I particularly like the fact that the magic chip is a consumable item.
> "Fool you once, shame on me. Fool you twice, and I'll start a business."

Well, Clark Johnson says it works! Twice!

http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/general/messages/36649...

> I figure that someone with an equal mix of cynicism and ethics decided to
> get into the tweaker market, but decided to come up with something so utterly
> outrageous that they couldn't feel guilty about fooling anyone incredulous
> enough to believe them.

I actually thought the Machinadynamics site was a spoof, when I first
heard of it.


--

-S
It's not my business to do intelligent work. -- D. Rumsfeld, testifying
before the House Armed Services Committee
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 11:21:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.marketplace (More info?)

"Jim Gilliland" <usemylastname@cheerful.com> wrote in message...

> And here's their latest innovation:
>
> http://www.shakti-innovations.com/hallograph.htm


Oh my.... :-\
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