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Any reason this shouldn't be part of a Home system?

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Anonymous
March 22, 2005 9:01:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHDCX2496

Or how about 2 of these bridged for mono?
http://www.behringer.com/EP2500/index.cfm?lang=ENG


Is there any reason it wouldn't sound as good as a pair of MC501's?
Retail price: $8200.00 per pair.

Or a pair of Omega monobloc's?
Retial price: $20,000.00 per pair.

Aside from the fact that the Behringer is cooled by a fan, why would it
not be a worthwhile purchase?
Anonymous
March 23, 2005 12:24:54 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

On 22 Mar 2005 18:01:12 -0800, "still learning"
<deskst49@peoplepc.com> wrote:

>http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHDCX2496
>
>Or how about 2 of these bridged for mono?
>http://www.behringer.com/EP2500/index.cfm?lang=ENG
>
>
>Is there any reason it wouldn't sound as good as a pair of MC501's?
>Retail price: $8200.00 per pair.
>
>Or a pair of Omega monobloc's?
>Retial price: $20,000.00 per pair.

Well, the answer to the question is found by listening. Behringer has
not enjoyed a high reputation for sound quality. High value, yes.

>Aside from the fact that the Behringer is cooled by a fan, why would it
>not be a worthwhile purchase?

You try it and tell us.

Kal
Anonymous
March 23, 2005 12:28:20 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

Kalman Rubinson wrote:
> On 22 Mar 2005 18:01:12 -0800, "still learning"
> <deskst49@peoplepc.com> wrote:
>
>
>>http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHDCX2496
>>
>>Or how about 2 of these bridged for mono?
>>http://www.behringer.com/EP2500/index.cfm?lang=ENG
>>
>>
>>Is there any reason it wouldn't sound as good as a pair of MC501's?
>>Retail price: $8200.00 per pair.
>>
>>Or a pair of Omega monobloc's?
>>Retial price: $20,000.00 per pair.
>
you can crawl, walk, run, take a bicycle, motorcycle, compact car,
sports car, SUV, propeller plane, jet plane - there's always horses too
either way you get there it's all a matter of how - I know bad analogy
but hopefully it gets the point across somewhat.
Related resources
Anonymous
March 23, 2005 12:40:40 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 21:28:20 -0500, Ozzy 2005
<ozzy2005@spamlovesyou.com> wrote:

>Kalman Rubinson wrote:
>> On 22 Mar 2005 18:01:12 -0800, "still learning"
>> <deskst49@peoplepc.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHDCX2496
>>>
>>>Or how about 2 of these bridged for mono?
>>>http://www.behringer.com/EP2500/index.cfm?lang=ENG
>>>
>>>
>>>Is there any reason it wouldn't sound as good as a pair of MC501's?
>>>Retail price: $8200.00 per pair.
>>>
>>>Or a pair of Omega monobloc's?
>>>Retial price: $20,000.00 per pair.
>>
>you can crawl, walk, run, take a bicycle, motorcycle, compact car,
>sports car, SUV, propeller plane, jet plane - there's always horses too
>either way you get there it's all a matter of how - I know bad analogy
>but hopefully it gets the point across somewhat.

Well, I didn't say anything in the quote and I don't get your point.
Do you mean it's all the same?

Kal
Anonymous
March 23, 2005 1:01:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

"still learning" <deskst49@peoplepc.com> wrote in message
news:1111543194.532277.26040@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
> http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHDCX2496
>
> Or how about 2 of these bridged for mono?
> http://www.behringer.com/EP2500/index.cfm?lang=ENG

Behringer has a new model amp that seems more appopriate for home
audio:

http://www.behringer.com/A500/index.cfm?lang=ENG

> Is there any reason it wouldn't sound as good as a pair of MC501's?
> Retail price: $8200.00 per pair.

Good question. There seems to be a lack of what I would consider to be
good published technical or listening tests related to them.

> Aside from the fact that the Behringer is cooled by a fan, why would
> it not be a worthwhile purchase?

The A500 has no fan.
Anonymous
March 23, 2005 1:13:20 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

Arny Krueger Mar 22, 7:01 pm show options

Newsgroups: rec.audio.tech
From: "Arny Krueger" <a...@hotpop.com> - Find messages by this author
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 22:01:09 -0500
Local: Tues, Mar 22 2005 7:01 pm
Subject: Re: Any reason this shouldn't be part of a Home system?
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original | Report Abuse


"still learning" <desks...@peoplepc.com> wrote in message


news:1111543194.532277.26040@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com


> http://www.zzounds.com/item--B­EHDCX2496

> Or how about 2 of these bridged for mono?
> http://www.behringer.com/EP250­0/index.cfm?lang=ENG



>Behringer has a new model amp that seems more appopriate for home
>audio:

http://www.behringer.com/A500/
Yes, I saw it on their website, no 8 ohm specs but it still ought to be
reviewed.


index.cfm?lang=ENG
> Is there any reason it wouldn't sound as good as a pair of MC501's?
> Retail price: $8200.00 per pair.


>Good question. There seems to be a lack of what I would consider to
>be
>good published technical or listening tests related to them.

In fact there is no coverage of it by any conumer audio publication.
It is my opinion that if such things were brought to the attention of
more audiophiles, and wannabe's, there'd be more people interested in
high end audio as a hobby.

Certainly, on paper at least, the EP 2500 desrves to reviewed. If it
sounds as good as a mid fi amp that was used in a certain abx test in a
Florida audio store, it would be a very good choice for a home audio
system, no? :-)

> Aside from the fact that the Behringer is cooled by a fan, why would
> it not be a worthwhile purchase?


>The A500 has no fan.
Ands no mainstream press, I wonder why.
Anonymous
March 23, 2005 2:35:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

Kalman Rubinson wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 21:28:20 -0500, Ozzy 2005
> <ozzy2005@spamlovesyou.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Kalman Rubinson wrote:
>>
>>>On 22 Mar 2005 18:01:12 -0800, "still learning"
>>><deskst49@peoplepc.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHDCX2496
>>>>
>>>>Or how about 2 of these bridged for mono?
>>>>http://www.behringer.com/EP2500/index.cfm?lang=ENG
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Is there any reason it wouldn't sound as good as a pair of MC501's?
>>>>Retail price: $8200.00 per pair.
>>>>
>>>>Or a pair of Omega monobloc's?
>>>>Retial price: $20,000.00 per pair.
>>>
>>you can crawl, walk, run, take a bicycle, motorcycle, compact car,
>>sports car, SUV, propeller plane, jet plane - there's always horses too
>>either way you get there it's all a matter of how - I know bad analogy
>>but hopefully it gets the point across somewhat.
>
>
> Well, I didn't say anything in the quote and I don't get your point.
> Do you mean it's all the same?
>
> Kal
>
Not at all I meant to say it's much more pleasurealbe to get there in style.
Anonymous
March 23, 2005 5:59:24 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

"still learning" <deskst49@peoplepc.com> wrote in message
news:1111604199.757114.41250@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com


> My feeling is that good audio is good audio, and magazine about good
> audio, should be in the business of finding and promoting it to
their
> readers.

There's your mistake. SP is about high end audio, not good audio.

>If a QSC, Crown, or Behringer piece of equipment is
> available to do the same job as a product from McIntosh, Bryston, or
> Classe, then it deserves a review.

In a magazine about good audio, yes. But not in a magazine about high
end audio.

> Every audiophile I know, looks
> for ways to get more and better sound for the best price he can
find.


This is IME not universally true. For example, we still find high-end
audiophiles who are looking for the best-sounding CD player for say
$1000, which is a ludcrously high price to pay for an optical disc
player these dyas. They seemingly first want to pay a certain price
for the player, with sound quality actually being a secondary
consideration.

> The less sophisticated ones do it some very embarassing ways. This
> doesn't mean that the magazines shouldn't also review the cost is no
> object gear, there's always going to be a market for that gear. I
> simply think that if high end performance can be obtained from
places
> that are being neglected, then the neglect should end.

Reviews of low, and mid-end equipment really has no place in a
magazine about high end audio.

A Lexus (a upper-mid-priced car) may be a better car in just about
every performance and comfort area than a Rolls Royce, but it has no
place in a comparison of cars in the Rolls Royce class.
Anonymous
March 23, 2005 6:48:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

Arny said:

Reviews of low, and mid-end equipment really has no place in a
magazine about high end audio.

A Lexus (a upper-mid-priced car) may be a better car in just about
every performance and comfort area than a Rolls Royce, but it has no
place in a comparison of cars in the Rolls Royce class.

__________________________________________-

But what is low or mid end equipment? If something that costs $100.00
sounds the same as something that costs $1000.00 and the $1000.00
device is considered high end why wouldn't the other?

When you look at some of the things that are considered high end and
see that they sometimes have less features than lower priced units, you
have to wonder what the hell they're paying for.
Anonymous
March 23, 2005 10:22:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

"still learning" <deskst49@peoplepc.com> wrote in message
news:1111558400.732841.134420@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>>The A500 has no fan.
> Ands no mainstream press, I wonder why.

Probably because it's not released yet.

MrT.
Anonymous
March 23, 2005 10:30:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

"still learning" <deskst49@peoplepc.com> wrote in message
news:1111543194.532277.26040@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Aside from the fact that the Behringer is cooled by a fan, why would it
> not be a worthwhile purchase?

I think you've just said it. The main thing wrong is the fan. It is variable
speed at least, and may or may not be a problem for you depending on where
you wish to put it.
Personally I prefer the EP1500 without the multi rail supply arrangement
though, but you get a choice. (do you really need the extra power).
As Arny said, the A500 will probably be a better alternative for most home
audio applications, when it's released. It doesn't appear to be 2 ohm rated
however.

MrT.
Anonymous
March 24, 2005 12:12:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

"still learning" <deskst49@peoplepc.com> wrote in message
news:1111621690.562851.13250@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com
> Arny said:

>> Reviews of low, and mid-end equipment really has no place in a
>> magazine about high end audio.

>> A Lexus (a upper-mid-priced car) may be a better car in just about
>> every performance and comfort area than a Rolls Royce, but it has
no
>> place in a comparison of cars in the Rolls Royce class.

> But what is low or mid end equipment?

The "high end" of any market is defined many ways - price, appearance,
service, advertising, other tangible and intangible attributes, etc.
If you want to study market segmentation, check out some good
marketing texts.

What makes a Rolls Royce worth something 10 times as much as a Lexus?
What makes a Lexus worth twice or more as much as a Chevy?

The low and mid ends of any market are defined in that they have
different values for the same parameters.

> If something that costs $100.00
> sounds the same as something that costs $1000.00 and the $1000.00
> device is considered high end why wouldn't the other?

Because of different values for the other parameters. For example, the
prerequisite glowing review in Stereophile might be one of those
parameters.

> When you look at some of the things that are considered high end and
> see that they sometimes have less features than lower priced units,
> you have to wonder what the hell they're paying for.

Panache, bragging rights, visiting firemen appeal, etc.
Anonymous
March 24, 2005 8:31:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

I think the goal of paying say $1000 for an optical player is not bad
in and of itself: radio stations did it for years with the surprisingly
good Harris/Audiometrics CD Cart players. I just think the build cost
and repairability and long term durability should be commensurate. I
have a $40 DVD player in my bedroom. It's a fine $40 DVD player, but it
would be a shitty $400 one.
Anonymous
March 25, 2005 12:53:34 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

<calcerise@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1111714287.585267.277950@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com

> I think the goal of paying say $1000 for an optical player is not
bad
> in and of itself: radio stations did it for years with the
> surprisingly good Harris/Audiometrics CD Cart players.

The topic is home optical disc players, Cal. Do try to get a little
focus in your life.

You know as well as I that Harris products are exceedingly durably
built for 24 hour per day radio station use, and long life as
expressed in calendar years.
Anonymous
March 25, 2005 11:20:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

Pot calling kettle 'black' noted.
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 8:42:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

still learning wrote:

>
> My apologies, Mr Larsen. Or should I just call you nitpicker?

My my, having confronted some sensible, logical assertions, mickmickey
get's angry. :) 

>
> I'll happily answer any question you have about the words I write, but
> you are obviously able to comprehend what I type so get over it.
>

Oh so *that's* what you mean by "still learning" .. the English language
... Ok. :) 

So there Mr. Larsen, since you are ovioulsy able to comprehend
mickmickey's reasoning, you really should try to get over it. :) 
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 9:56:02 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

Fella asked:

Snip of long boring descrition of how he's PW:

So to repeat the question : If I stuff some kind of a damping material,

etc, in these plastic buggers would I lose some of the plastic in the
sound? What material could this be?


Any help from you, or any other member of RAT would be much
appreciated.
"


Since you have nothing to lose now that you can't return them, try some
wooden dowels or polyfil stuffing.

BTW check here for a look at what some people in the DIY arean are
doing.

www.home.hetnet.nl/~geenius/
or
www.geocities.com/kingdaddykeith/kingdaddys_DIY_Project...,,
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 1:03:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

Fella sez:

"You seem to have spotted an opening in the marketplace for a magazine
dedicated to barebones functional, _*very*_ affordable pro/home audio
gear and DIY gear. You are pushing the idea to others. Why not go for
it
yourself? Why not *you* and your cro.. err.. friends, get together and
publish such a mag? You do not need all that much money these days,
what
with the internet and all. There are workable magazine web templates
out
there sold for 20-30 dollars. A decent wsywig editor (hotdog
professional for example) would put you back some 100 dollars. A domain

purchase is dirt cheap... So, what's keeping you? If OK for DIY home
audio, why not DIY audio rag .. err.. magazine?"


Sorry, but it's not about barebones it's about the most bang for the
buck whatever that happens to be.
I think audiophiles should be informed on ALL the possibilites of how
to get first rate performance.

Since it's already established that a lot of what is claimed to sound
better sounds the same as stuff that costs 1/10 of what some audiophile
apprioved stuff costs, and we should want to make it possible for
anybody who's interested, but might not have the kind of money some of
the tweako stuff costs, to enjoy the pleasure of good hi-fi. You've
already established that for you it was impossible to differentiate
between compentently built amps, why not include information about
other gear that is very affordable and performs as well as much more
expensive gear.

I push the idea of including pro gear, simply because in many cases it
is at least the equal in performance of well known consumer gear.

As to what's keeping me, it would take too much time away from actual
listening for the sheer pleasure of it.

>>Both URLs didn't work for me.


Hmmm, try it this way. Look for a speaker called the Soup, which is my
favorite.

http://home.hetnet.nl/~geenius/

If you go to www.diyaudio.com you can find a permanent listing of all
the projects that have been presented there, just follow that link and
look for King Daddy. This guy hs done some designs that probably won't
have very high wife approval but are extremely inventive and
fucntional. He has a subwoofer that can be sealed or ported by simply
turning a knob and his main speakers look they would be found in a
Latin band, he's also working on a center channel with variable volume.

The site above where you will find the Soup and several other extremely
well designed systems, many of which are not exactly cheap, unless
compared to what they would cost with a brand name, include
measurements.

There are other sites that deal with the electronics end of hi-fi, but
I'm more interested in speakers as a hobby because of the fact that
speakers make more difference than anything else in what makes any
system better.
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 1:53:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

An afterthought about the barebones comment below.

"You seem to have spotted an opening in the marketplace for a magazine
dedicated to barebones functional, _*very*_ affordable pro/home audio
gear and DIY gear. "

Have you been to the Linkwitz site and seen the specs and prices for
the Orion?
The full set up is around $6000.00 U.S.. Hardly what most people would
consider cheap or barebones.

There is also a listing of countries where there are Orion owners who
will allow those who are interested to come and listen.
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 2:25:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

still learning wrote:
> Fella asked:
>
> Snip of long boring descrition of how he's PW:

Well, sorry me. What's "PW" ?

>
> Since you have nothing to lose now that you can't return them,


I have no reason to return them, actually all I had in mind was a
digital amp, since I already had some sort of DVD player. I wanted the
amp to be fairly sized, as the higher-up models tend to be way too big
and just downright ugly. I was meaning to build a second system around
the new TV gradually, so as not to sudden react the wife. This 350 was
on the shelf, alone, and I walked up to it asking the price. The seller
said that this model is 299e, but for 320 you can have this HTiB, which
had the same amp PLUs all that other stuff. My current DVD could not do
DIVX and this one included int he package does. So the whole deal is a
real catch for me.

In any case, I think the wife just might accept those mg1 or whatever,
magnepans, white, blend in with the walls. I will have them over for a
demo soon.

> try some
> wooden dowels or polyfil stuffing.

Thanks for the suggestion. I will try that. Even if I get the plastic
out of the sound though, I fear it ill still be *small*.. :( 

>
> BTW check here for a look at what some people in the DIY arean are
> doing.

Thanks. In general, yes, as a hobby I have nothing against DIY.

You seem to have spotted an opening in the marketplace for a magazine
dedicated to barebones functional, _*very*_ affordable pro/home audio
gear and DIY gear. You are pushing the idea to others. Why not go for it
yourself? Why not *you* and your cro.. err.. friends, get together and
publish such a mag? You do not need all that much money these days, what
with the internet and all. There are workable magazine web templates out
there sold for 20-30 dollars. A decent wsywig editor (hotdog
professional for example) would put you back some 100 dollars. A domain
purchase is dirt cheap... So, what's keeping you? If OK for DIY home
audio, why not DIY audio rag .. err.. magazine?

>
> www.home.hetnet.nl/~geenius/
> or
> www.geocities.com/kingdaddykeith/kingdaddys_DIY_Project...,,
>

Both URLs didn't work for me.
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 8:37:49 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

Fella Apr 1, 2:42 pm show options

Newsgroups: rec.audio.tech
From: Fella <trap...@m.com> - Find messages by this author
Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 01:42:19 +0300
Local: Fri, Apr 1 2005 2:42 pm
Subject: Re: Any reason this shouldn't be part of a Home system?
Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show
original | Report Abuse



still learning wrote:
> Here's another first rate site for DIY speakers.

> http://home1.stofanet.dk/troel­s.gravesen/>



Thanks Mckelvy, all snagged and bookmarked. I will examine them with
interest. There are certain problematic aspects of DIY audio for me
that
are almost impossible to reconcile. 1) I barely have time to joke
around
with my toddler sometimes, let alone build speakers. 2) I really need
to
hear a piece of gear first (well, the two channel gear :)  before any
sort of commitment. 3) I am what you might call an anti-engineer when
it
comes to electronics. 4) I've listened to tens if not hundreds of
different speakers, even stuff like martin logan statements and audio
phsyic kronos, barn door sized magnepans, absurd looking horn gear,
etc,
but get this, nothing else rocks my boat like sonus faber speakers do.
They have that something special, they seem to reach into the heart of
music and grab it out for me. I know you deem them to be just pretty
furniture, but that's the way it is for me. And I really doubt any DIY
setup can have that special something like the sf speakers do. I deem
this guy, serblin, as some sort of a special artisan, an artist.

But yes, always, I would love to be able to hear the DIY gear you are
mentioning. When I listen to given gear for the first time I always
listen with an open heart. And yes, I am sure that some of the DIY gear

would be much more accurate, neutral, etc, then my SF's, but like I
said, they most probably won't have that magical midrange.

_________________________________________________________________________________________

I think that people who have the right equipment, and who are as
obsessive as some of the hobbyist's are cna probably get that same
sound without teh hefty price tag.

You don't need to be an engineer to build speakers, but it sure helps
if you're going to try and design them.

I would advise anyone who love hi-fi to try at least one good kit like
the Seas Thor, or Odin kits, or one of the Scan Speak kits. You can
get them with the cabinets already built and with xovers assembled, so
all you really need to do is use a srew driver and some wire nuts.

I'd be very interested in hearing anyone's comparisons of Sonus Faber's
to the Linkwitz Orion kit.
Anonymous
April 2, 2005 5:42:19 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

still learning wrote:
> Here's another first rate site for DIY speakers.
>
> http://home1.stofanet.dk/troels.gravesen/
>

Thanks Mckelvy, all snagged and bookmarked. I will examine them with
interest. There are certain problematic aspects of DIY audio for me that
are almost impossible to reconcile. 1) I barely have time to joke around
with my toddler sometimes, let alone build speakers. 2) I really need to
hear a piece of gear first (well, the two channel gear :)  before any
sort of commitment. 3) I am what you might call an anti-engineer when it
comes to electronics. 4) I've listened to tens if not hundreds of
different speakers, even stuff like martin logan statements and audio
phsyic kronos, barn door sized magnepans, absurd looking horn gear, etc,
but get this, nothing else rocks my boat like sonus faber speakers do.
They have that something special, they seem to reach into the heart of
music and grab it out for me. I know you deem them to be just pretty
furniture, but that's the way it is for me. And I really doubt any DIY
setup can have that special something like the sf speakers do. I deem
this guy, serblin, as some sort of a special artisan, an artist.

But yes, always, I would love to be able to hear the DIY gear you are
mentioning. When I listen to given gear for the first time I always
listen with an open heart. And yes, I am sure that some of the DIY gear
would be much more accurate, neutral, etc, then my SF's, but like I
said, they most probably won't have that magical midrange.
Anonymous
April 2, 2005 5:59:56 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

still learning wrote:

> I think audiophiles should be informed on ALL the possibilites of how
> to get first rate performance.

Agreed.

>
> Since it's already established that a lot of what is claimed to sound
> better sounds the same as stuff that costs 1/10 of what some audiophile
> apprioved stuff costs,

Who established that? How can _you_ establish that? I thought you said
"audiophiles should be informed on ALL the possibilites of how to get
first rate performance" ?? You really see no contradiction between this
very correct assertion and the prejudice you expose right after it?

I really do not want to argue with you though.


>
> The site above where you will find the Soup


Not the soup but the tempo took my interest.





> speakers make more difference than anything else in what makes any
> system better.
>

Agreed. Though in the real world amps also have a huge impact on SQ.

Take care.
Anonymous
April 2, 2005 6:25:38 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

Mr.T wrote:

> "still learning" <deskst49@peoplepc.com> wrote in message
> news:1111558400.732841.134420@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
>>>The A500 has no fan.
>>
>>Ands no mainstream press, I wonder why.
>
>
> Probably because it's not released yet.
>
> MrT.
>
>
>

That's funny. I am almost sure that I've previously read Arny claiming
he has the a500 in his home setup. Hmm.. Back in those days when I was
reading / writing in RAO... I guess I remember wrong then. :) 
!