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BOSE can sound good in a small room

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March 31, 2005 3:08:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.option,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

I had so many replies in my last post about BOSE that I thought I'd
better start a new post. No one wants to read 199 or so posts and some
of the posts were not related to my question.

Thank you for all your helpful replies.


It's possible that the BOSE speakers do not sound good in a large
room.
The Room I have my BOSE speakers in is 5 x 3.5 meters. The distance
from the speakers is 3 meters.
The BOSE sub woofer is in a corner facing the wall so that low
frequency sound bounces off the wall giving me more bass volume.
If I turn up the volume too high then the speakers don't sound so
good, for example when I say loud I mean so loud that I can't hear the
speech of someone standing next to me. I normally have the volume loud
enough to hear the phone ring or are able to talk to someone next to
me without shouting.

So what I'm saying is BOSE can sound good but only in a certain setup.

I had a listen a pair of Paradigm speakers. One was called "Esprit"
the other "Phantion". They're floor standing speakers. They seem to
sound their best with music that rapidly changes in volume such as
orchestra music that has impact as they have a wide dynamic range.
They lacked in imaging and in deep bass as there low frequency
response was 45Hz.

Regards Brian
March 31, 2005 3:08:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.option,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

I take that back, your either brainwashed or tone deaf or both.
March 31, 2005 3:08:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.option,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

Brian wrote:
> I had so many replies in my last post about BOSE that I thought I'd
> better start a new post. No one wants to read 199 or so posts and some
> of the posts were not related to my question.
>
> Thank you for all your helpful replies.
>
>
> It's possible that the BOSE speakers do not sound good in a large
> room.
> The Room I have my BOSE speakers in is 5 x 3.5 meters. The distance
> from the speakers is 3 meters.
> The BOSE sub woofer is in a corner facing the wall so that low
> frequency sound bounces off the wall giving me more bass volume.
> If I turn up the volume too high then the speakers don't sound so
> good, for example when I say loud I mean so loud that I can't hear the
> speech of someone standing next to me. I normally have the volume loud
> enough to hear the phone ring or are able to talk to someone next to
> me without shouting.
>
> So what I'm saying is BOSE can sound good but only in a certain setup.
>
> I had a listen a pair of Paradigm speakers. One was called "Esprit"
> the other "Phantion". They're floor standing speakers. They seem to
> sound their best with music that rapidly changes in volume such as
> orchestra music that has impact as they have a wide dynamic range.
> They lacked in imaging and in deep bass as there low frequency
> response was 45Hz.
>
> Regards Brian
>
I want to be polite but simply put with no way around it you are just
plain wrong about your observations. Unless you are using them as
headphones and even then your results are questionable. Have you ever
heard a real hifi? The previous thread had links to detailed
information regarding the inadequacies of bose systems did you read
them. You are really turning into a troll or someone with severe buyers
remorse trying to convince themselves of something is scientifically
untrue. If bose floats your boat then be quiet and float away but don't
be a FOOL and try to convince rational audiophiles that bose is anything
even nearly resembling true fidelity. Bose is an attempt at getting a
certain kind of concert like live sound it is not accurate 20Hz-20kHz
+/- 3dB sound reproduction. That said a pair of good tweeters costs
more than those dinky distortion producing non uniform frequency
outputting mid bass drivers (if they can even be called that) that are
in your bose system. Please sit in your room and listen to your bose
system and enjoy it, because I'm sure it can be enjoyable but again
don't try to convince anyone that it's hifi. Thanks.
Related resources
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 3:08:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.option,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 11:08:04 +1200, Brian <bclark@es.co.nz> wrote:

>The BOSE sub woofer is in a corner facing the wall so that low
>frequency sound bounces off the wall giving me more bass volume.

Right...
March 31, 2005 3:08:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.option,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

Brian wrote:
> I had so many replies in my last post about BOSE that I thought I'd
> better start a new post. No one wants to read 199 or so posts and some
> of the posts were not related to my question.
>
More on Bose. It's a never ending oddesy.
>
> Thank you for all your helpful replies.
>
But did they make an impression? Did you look at some of the posted
links that discuss the Bose dilemma in detail?
>
> It's possible that the BOSE speakers do not sound good in a large
> room.
> The Room I have my BOSE speakers in is 5 x 3.5 meters. The distance
> from the speakers is 3 meters.
>
Very scientific.
>
> The BOSE sub woofer is in a corner facing the wall so that low
> frequency sound bounces off the wall giving me more bass volume.
>
Yes more reflection gives more bass but...ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
>
> If I turn up the volume too high then the speakers don't sound so
> good, for example when I say loud I mean so loud that I can't hear the
> speech of someone standing next to me. I normally have the volume loud
> enough to hear the phone ring or are able to talk to someone next to
> me without shouting.
>
This is also an indication of the fact that even when you can't hear the
speakers distorting at lower volumes they still are.
>
> So what I'm saying is BOSE can sound good but only in a certain setup.
>
Totally subjective but yes they can if that is what you like, just don't
call them hifi or be under the misconception you can't get better
fidelity (more true output in relation to the source) for the same money.
>
> I had a listen a pair of Paradigm speakers. One was called "Esprit"
> the other "Phantion". They're floor standing speakers. They seem to
> sound their best with music that rapidly changes in volume such as
> orchestra music that has impact as they have a wide dynamic range.
> They lacked in imaging and in deep bass as there low frequency
> response was 45Hz.
>
You Bose system probably doesn't go anywhere near that low and if you
put the Paradigm in the same corner where your sub is they would be
considerably lower sounding than your Bose sub. But you are saying that
the Bose have better imaging? I would submit that if you had the
Paradigm setup in your room not the store that the imaging would be far
superior to the Bose.
>
> Regards Brian
>
Ren says enjoy your Bose but you should really read some of those links
listed in the previous thread. Hey if you like the way they sound then
that's the whole point but you should try and hook up with an audiophile
can let you listen to a hifi system I think you will be impressed.
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 3:08:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.option,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 11:08:04 +1200, Brian <bclark@es.co.nz> wrote:

>I had so many replies in my last post about BOSE that I thought I'd
>better start a new post. No one wants to read 199 or so posts and some
>of the posts were not related to my question.
>
>Thank you for all your helpful replies.
>
>
>It's possible that the BOSE speakers do not sound good in a large
>room.
>The Room I have my BOSE speakers in is 5 x 3.5 meters. The distance
>from the speakers is 3 meters.
>The BOSE sub woofer is in a corner facing the wall so that low
>frequency sound bounces off the wall giving me more bass volume.
>If I turn up the volume too high then the speakers don't sound so
>good, for example when I say loud I mean so loud that I can't hear the
>speech of someone standing next to me. I normally have the volume loud
>enough to hear the phone ring or are able to talk to someone next to
>me without shouting.
>
>So what I'm saying is BOSE can sound good but only in a certain setup.
>
>I had a listen a pair of Paradigm speakers. One was called "Esprit"
>the other "Phantion". They're floor standing speakers. They seem to
>sound their best with music that rapidly changes in volume such as
>orchestra music that has impact as they have a wide dynamic range.
>They lacked in imaging and in deep bass as there low frequency
>response was 45Hz.
>
>Regards Brian
>

Paradigm are garbage. Cheap componentry and the wattage handling
ratings are way too high. The produced a set of self-powered speakers
some years back. The components they used for the internal amps
weren't even fit for a sub-woofer and those parts which cost around
$12 per speaker effectively doubled the speaker price versus the
non-powered ones. When they bought Sonic Frontiers it was a black
day in audio.
-Rich
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 3:08:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.option,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

On 3/30/05 7:06 PM, in article X9H2e.9977$Dv1.8124@fe12.lga, "ren"
<ren@ren.ren> wrote:

> Brian wrote:
>> I had so many replies in my last post about BOSE
> I want to be polite but simply put with no way around it you are just
> plain wrong

Brian and all you Kids, let's edit those crosspost headers.
It's Easy,
It's Fun
and it makes you smarter than the dolt who snuck so many unwanted
destinations in there!
Go for it!
Thanks!
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 3:08:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.option,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

On 3/30/05 9:18 PM, in article 0fnm41d4780gqdi0khr1urbn8m2gfc5f7t@4ax.com,
"playon" <playonAT@comcast.net> wrote:


> Right...

Al and all you Kids, let's edit those crosspost headers.
It's Easy,
It's Fun
and it makes you smarter than the dolt who snuck so many unwanted
destinations in there!
Go for it!
Thanks!
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 3:08:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.option,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

On 3/30/05 10:02 PM, in article fLJ2e.12229$7%.7489@fe10.lga, "ren"
<ren@ren.ren> wrote:

>>
> Ren says enjoy your Bose

Ren and all you Kids, let's edit those crosspost headers.
It's Easy,
It's Fun
and it makes you smarter than the dolt who snuck so many unwanted
destinations in there!
Go for it!
Thanks!
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 3:08:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.option,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

In article <BE70F01A.43FD%ten@nozirev.gamnocssj.com>,
SSJVCmag <ten@nozirev.gamnocssj.com> wrote:
>On 3/30/05 10:02 PM, in article fLJ2e.12229$7%.7489@fe10.lga, "ren"
><ren@ren.ren> wrote:

>> Ren says enjoy your Bose

>Ren and all you Kids, let's edit those crosspost headers.
>It's Easy,
>It's Fun
>and it makes you smarter than the dolt who snuck so many unwanted
>destinations in there!
>Go for it!
>Thanks!

Excuse me, but I don't understand your complaint. Why exactly
should the headers be trimmed, and more importantly, how? Is this
discussion inappropriate for one of the three audio newsgroups to
which it was posted? (Actually only two -- "rec.audio.option"
doesn't seem to exist). If so, which one, and why? I hope you
are not one of those newbies who is under the mistaken impression
that crossposting is always wrong. The capability was built into
the system quite deliberately, and this looks like an appropriate
use of that capability to me. Maybe I'm wrong. But without some
sort of explanation you are just giving orders that you have no
way of enforcing!
--
John Brock
jbrock@panix.com
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 3:08:08 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.opinion,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

John Brock wrote:

> >Ren and all you Kids, let's edit those crosspost headers.

> Excuse me, but I don't understand your complaint. Why exactly
> should the headers be trimmed, and more importantly, how?

Because you are wasting peoples time, bandwidth and diskspace in
newsgroups that are not relevant for the topic. that belongs in
rec.audio.opinion only.

> Is this discussion inappropriate for one of the three
> audio newsgroups to which it was posted?

YES!

> (Actually only two -- "rec.audio.option" doesn't seem to exist).

Someone would have posted it to rec.audio.opinion, where it belongs.

> If so, which one, and why?

This is about someones opinion, it is not about facts. Therefore it
belongs in rec.audio.opinion only.

> I hope you are not one of those newbies who is under the mistaken
> impression that crossposting is always wrong.

Crossposting is intented for use in asking a question that may belong in
several newsgroups. As an example room acoustic issues that are relevant
for alt.audio.pro.live-sound may require the expertise found in
alt.sci.physics.acoustics. Normally the questionee crossposting a
question would also suggest a newsgroup for the discussion and add a
followup-to: header pointing at it.

> The capability was built into the system quite deliberately,
> and this looks like an appropriate use of that capability to me.

It is not suitable to crosspost permanently into newsgrops where the
topic is off topic.

> Maybe I'm wrong.

It is probably more fair to say that your comprehension of this appears
to be incomplete.

> But without some sort of explanation you are just giving
> orders that you have no way of enforcing!

Welcome to the usenet. Consider yourself flamed. A followup-to: header
pointing at rec.audio.opinion has been added.

> John Brock
> jbrock@panix.com


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 6:21:48 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.option,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

On 3/31/05 12:47 AM, in article mj3n41lrapcb6h6f9uqec45a0aa285e695@4ax.com,
"RichA" <none@none.com> wrote:

>
> Paradigm are garbage.

Rich and All you guys gals and others,
get the fraggin crossposts cleaned up so
this thread ONLY shows up WHERe it's REALLY WANTED.

No reason not to.

It's Quick!
It's Fun!
It's EASY!
It earns you the respect and eternal homage of
Well
SOMEBODY I'd guess.
Just Do It.
Now
Please.
Thanks
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 6:23:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.option,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

On 3/31/05 4:58 AM, in article kbin4195ptdnua56mer4ph4sp7o1q62q9j@4ax.com,
"Brian" <bclark@es.co.nz> wrote:

> Just out of interest ren have you actually listened to BOSE speakers


Brian and All you guys gals and others,
get the fraggin crossposts cleaned up so
this thread ONLY shows up WHERe it's REALLY WANTED.

No reason not to.

It's Quick!
It's Fun!
It's EASY!
It earns you the respect and eternal homage of
Well
SOMEBODY I'd guess.
Just Do It.
Now
Please.
Thanks
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 6:26:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.option,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

On 3/31/05 5:32 AM, in article p9kn41l8ktaikolnvcf9rujavuev2dhle7@4ax.com,
"Brian" <bclark@es.co.nz> wrote:

> Let me make one thing clear- I'm an open minded person

Brian that's absolutely EXCELLENT! Then you;re open to the simple idea that
you and All you guys gals and others,
get the fraggin crossposts cleaned up so
this thread ONLY shows up WHERe it's REALLY WANTED.

No reason not to.

It's Quick!
It's Fun!
It's EASY!
It earns you the respect and eternal homage of
Well
SOMEBODY I'd guess.
Just Do It.
Now
Please.
Thanks
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 6:32:08 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.option,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

On 3/31/05 6:19 AM, in article d1R2e.12404$Ns7.727@fe10.lga, "ren"
<ren@ren.ren> wrote:

> This is exactly what I mean. Brian I don't care what your preferences
> are

And really neither do folks on unassociated groups, which leaves many of us
wondering just why it's such an intellectual challenge for you and All you
guys gals and others, to
get the fraggin crossposts cleaned up so
this thread ONLY shows up WHERE it's REALLY WANTED.

No reason not to.

It's Quick!
It's Fun!
It's EASY!
It earns you the respect and eternal homage of
Well
SOMEBODY I'd guess.
Just Do It.
Now
Please.
Thanks
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 6:44:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.option,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

On 3/31/05 1:56 AM, in article d2g6ur$aaq$1@reader1.panix.com, "John Brock"
<jbrock@panix.com> wrote:

> In article <BE70F01A.43FD%ten@nozirev.gamnocssj.com>,
> SSJVCmag <ten@nozirev.gamnocssj.com> wrote:
>> On 3/30/05 10:02 PM, in article fLJ2e.12229$7%.7489@fe10.lga, "ren"
>> <ren@ren.ren> wrote:
>
>>> Ren says enjoy your Bose
>
>> Ren and all you Kids, let's edit those crosspost headers.
>> It's Easy,
>> It's Fun
>> and it makes you smarter than the dolt who snuck so many unwanted
>> destinations in there!
>> Go for it!
>> Thanks!
>
> Excuse me, but I don't understand your complaint.

It's easy. Folks slap on additional destination groups and since nobody
bothers to think, they;re never removed and these conversations start
streaming endlessly into places that aren;t interested in them and nobody at
all is responding to them.
-I- have no idea which groups WANT these threads so I just pass on a nice
mention of the problem to all of the ones that I don;t know about and figure
all the folks will take the second or so and fix it up.


> Maybe I'm wrong.

Indeed on one level, but then we always want to fix simple mistakes or
misunderstandings:


> But without some
> sort of explanation you are just giving orders that you have no
> way of enforcing!

Ahhhh there's your misunderstanding, I gave no orders, just a simple
heads-up for folks to take a look at a public annoyance that they most
likely were merely ignorant of having a part in, like pointing out to
somebody that their gas cap is open and they're leaking fuel on the road, or
their pants aren;t zipped up. No big deal to fix it. Something everybody
would want to do: Play Nice and all that.
Thanks
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 10:04:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

SSJVCmag wrote:


> Ahhhh there's your misunderstanding, I gave no orders, just a simple
> heads-up for folks to take a look at a public annoyance ..

But seriously, no matter how noble, or nettiquetique, or whatever you
think your cause is, you yourself are becoming a publisc annoyance
trying to give heads-up on a publisc annoyance. YMMV. Ferrchrissakes,
just look at the amount ofposts you repeat yourself alone in this
thread. What you're doing is almost reaching proportions of spam-flame
wars, etc, so please, play nice, give it a rest.
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 10:04:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

On 3/31/05 10:04 AM, in article YkU2e.5398$tn1.269@reader1.news.jippii.net,
"Fella" <trap.sp@m.com> wrote:

> ... seriously, no matter how noble, or nettiquetique, or whatever you
> think your cause is, you yourself are becoming a publisc annoyance
> trying to give heads-up on a publisc annoyance. YMMV.

Indeed.
First thanks for this posting now just streamlined back to a single group.
That's all it took.

So let me get this as you put it:
spreading garbage massively carelessly is dandy
a short-and-sweet request to clen it up is evil.

Hmmmm... Despite that for sheer content (the strings beng posted elsewhere
are an order of magnitude or better just in numbers and per-mesg-content is
absurd with just the massive needless reqoting content, then there's the
top-heavy signal/noise personal diatribe puerile name-calling content
issue...) I aint even in the running. I guess I can;t understand it.

Well, just so's you're comfy, and this ends, Last Time:
here;s hoping most of you who are still leaving an needless wake behind you
will just take a moment to deal (thanks for those who already have).
thanks
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 1:45:26 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.opinion (More info?)

"Brian" <bclark@es.co.nz> wrote in message
news:hfbm41t4quh9t5f6rsgitufar47crvvoat@4ax.com...
>I had so many replies in my last post about BOSE that I thought I'd
> better start a new post. No one wants to read 199 or so posts and some
> of the posts were not related to my question.
>
> Thank you for all your helpful replies.
>
>
> It's possible that the BOSE speakers do not sound good in a large
> room.
> The Room I have my BOSE speakers in is 5 x 3.5 meters. The distance
> from the speakers is 3 meters.
> The BOSE sub woofer is in a corner facing the wall so that low
> frequency sound bounces off the wall giving me more bass volume.
> If I turn up the volume too high then the speakers don't sound so
> good, for example when I say loud I mean so loud that I can't hear the
> speech of someone standing next to me. I normally have the volume loud
> enough to hear the phone ring or are able to talk to someone next to
> me without shouting.

What you describe is not 'good sound' by any stretch of the imagination.

A turd in a big room is still a turd in a small room.

geoff
>
> So what I'm saying is BOSE can sound good but only in a certain setup.
>
> I had a listen a pair of Paradigm speakers. One was called "Esprit"
> the other "Phantion". They're floor standing speakers. They seem to
> sound their best with music that rapidly changes in volume such as
> orchestra music that has impact as they have a wide dynamic range.

You mean that the Bosii have poor dynamic range, and you prefer 'flat' music
?

> They lacked in imaging and in deep bass as there low frequency
> response was 45Hz.

'Deep bass' cannot exist in a small room like that. It to do with things
like physics and wavelength. The great quantity of whatever you are getting
by 'subwoofer' placement is NOT deep bass.


geoff
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 1:45:27 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.opinion (More info?)

On 3/31/05 4:45 AM, in article 424bc6b5$2@clear.net.nz, "Geoff Wood"
<geoff@nospam-paf.co.nz> wrote:

> 'Deep bass' cannot exist in a small room like that.

Geof and All you guys gals and others,
get the fraggin crossposts cleaned up so
this thread ONLY shows up WHERe it's REALLY WANTED.

No reason not to.

It's Quick!
It's Fun!
It's EASY!
It earns you the respect and eternal homage of
Well
SOMEBODY I'd guess.
Just Do It.
Now
Please.
Thanks
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 1:45:44 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Brian" <bclark@es.co.nz> wrote in message news:hfbm41t4quh9t5f6rsgitufar47crvvoat@4ax.com...

> I had so many replies in my last post about BOSE that I thought I'd
> better start a new post. No one wants to read 199 or so posts and some
> of the posts were not related to my question.


With the header crossposted to so many groups, what do you expect?
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 1:45:45 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

David Morgan (MAMS) wrote:

> I'd never heard of rec.audio.option either. If he meant 'opinion', by
> missing them he missed out on all of the really 'big' action.... ;-)

Yup, and 'big' is an understatement.
April 1, 2005 1:56:06 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.option,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

RichA <none@none.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 11:08:04 +1200, Brian <bclark@es.co.nz> wrote:
>
>>I had so many replies in my last post about BOSE that I thought I'd
>>better start a new post. No one wants to read 199 or so posts and some
>>of the posts were not related to my question.
>>
>>Thank you for all your helpful replies.
>>
>>
>>It's possible that the BOSE speakers do not sound good in a large
>>room.
>>The Room I have my BOSE speakers in is 5 x 3.5 meters. The distance
>>from the speakers is 3 meters.
>>The BOSE sub woofer is in a corner facing the wall so that low
>>frequency sound bounces off the wall giving me more bass volume.
>>If I turn up the volume too high then the speakers don't sound so
>>good, for example when I say loud I mean so loud that I can't hear the
>>speech of someone standing next to me. I normally have the volume loud
>>enough to hear the phone ring or are able to talk to someone next to
>>me without shouting.
>>
>>So what I'm saying is BOSE can sound good but only in a certain setup.
>>
>>I had a listen a pair of Paradigm speakers. One was called "Esprit"
>>the other "Phantion". They're floor standing speakers. They seem to
>>sound their best with music that rapidly changes in volume such as
>>orchestra music that has impact as they have a wide dynamic range.
>>They lacked in imaging and in deep bass as there low frequency
>>response was 45Hz.
>>
>>Regards Brian
>>
>
>Paradigm are garbage. Cheap componentry and the wattage handling
>ratings are way too high. The produced a set of self-powered speakers
>some years back. The components they used for the internal amps
>weren't even fit for a sub-woofer and those parts which cost around
>$12 per speaker effectively doubled the speaker price versus the
>non-powered ones. When they bought Sonic Frontiers it was a black
>day in audio.
>-Rich
OK Rich, what speakers would you recommend?

Regards Brian
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 1:56:07 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.option,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

On 3/31/05 4:56 AM, in article e8in4197dngbtim9a0m7q6v6bea9amnevn@4ax.com,
"Brian" <bclark@es.co.nz> wrote:
> OK Rich, what speakers would you recommend?


Brian and All you guys gals and others,
get the fraggin crossposts cleaned up so
this thread ONLY shows up WHERe it's REALLY WANTED.

No reason not to.

It's Quick!
It's Fun!
It's EASY!
It earns you the respect and eternal homage of
Well
SOMEBODY I'd guess.
Just Do It.
Now
Please.
Thanks
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 1:56:07 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.option,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

Brian <nospam@hotmail> wrote:
>RichA <none@none.com> wrote:
>>
>>Paradigm are garbage. Cheap componentry and the wattage handling
>>ratings are way too high. The produced a set of self-powered speakers
>>some years back. The components they used for the internal amps
>>weren't even fit for a sub-woofer and those parts which cost around
>>$12 per speaker effectively doubled the speaker price versus the
>>non-powered ones. When they bought Sonic Frontiers it was a black
>>day in audio.
>
>OK Rich, what speakers would you recommend?

I'll say that while Paradigm has certainly made gear (like the Atom and
Titan) which fit Rich's description perfectly, they have also made some
decent speakers (like the Mini Mk III) as well. Not high end stuff by
any means, but good for the price.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
April 1, 2005 2:10:49 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.option,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

ren <ren@ren.ren> wrote:

>Brian wrote:
>> I had so many replies in my last post about BOSE that I thought I'd
>> better start a new post. No one wants to read 199 or so posts and some
>> of the posts were not related to my question.
>>
>> Thank you for all your helpful replies.
>>
>>
>> It's possible that the BOSE speakers do not sound good in a large
>> room.
>> The Room I have my BOSE speakers in is 5 x 3.5 meters. The distance
>> from the speakers is 3 meters.
>> The BOSE sub woofer is in a corner facing the wall so that low
>> frequency sound bounces off the wall giving me more bass volume.
>> If I turn up the volume too high then the speakers don't sound so
>> good, for example when I say loud I mean so loud that I can't hear the
>> speech of someone standing next to me. I normally have the volume loud
>> enough to hear the phone ring or are able to talk to someone next to
>> me without shouting.
>>
>> So what I'm saying is BOSE can sound good but only in a certain setup.
>>
>> I had a listen a pair of Paradigm speakers. One was called "Esprit"
>> the other "Phantion". They're floor standing speakers. They seem to
>> sound their best with music that rapidly changes in volume such as
>> orchestra music that has impact as they have a wide dynamic range.
>> They lacked in imaging and in deep bass as there low frequency
>> response was 45Hz.
>>
>> Regards Brian
>>
>I want to be polite but simply put with no way around it you are just
>plain wrong about your observations. Unless you are using them as
>headphones and even then your results are questionable. Have you ever
>heard a real hifi? The previous thread had links to detailed
>information regarding the inadequacies of bose systems did you read
>them. You are really turning into a troll or someone with severe buyers
>remorse trying to convince themselves of something is scientifically
>untrue. If bose floats your boat then be quiet and float away but don't
>be a FOOL and try to convince rational audiophiles that bose is anything
> even nearly resembling true fidelity. Bose is an attempt at getting a
>certain kind of concert like live sound it is not accurate 20Hz-20kHz
>+/- 3dB sound reproduction. That said a pair of good tweeters costs
>more than those dinky distortion producing non uniform frequency
>outputting mid bass drivers (if they can even be called that) that are
>in your bose system. Please sit in your room and listen to your bose
>system and enjoy it, because I'm sure it can be enjoyable but again
>don't try to convince anyone that it's hifi. Thanks.

Please do be polite.
I believe that some speakers are better for Rock music, some speakers
are better for classical music and some speakers are better for
movies.
These days you have buy a set of 5 speakers and a sub for $199 at a
store that sells food, but I'm sure they would be much worse than BOSE
speakers.
I took peoples advice and listened to a pair of Paradigm speakers. I
was hoping to listen to other speakers but the sells man seemed to be
keen on wanting me to listen to only this brand of speakers.
I'm hoping to listen to other brands of speakers. Ideally it would be
good to setup a pair of speakers in my home and that way I could get
to hear what they really sound like, but most dealers are not keen on
having speakers go out of the store for a demo.

I'm not tone death or brain dead as you said. I have an open mind else
I would not bother to read the replys or listen to other speakers.

Regards Brian
April 1, 2005 2:10:50 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.option,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

Brian wrote:
> ren <ren@ren.ren> wrote:
>
>
>>Brian wrote:
>>
>>>I had so many replies in my last post about BOSE that I thought I'd
>>>better start a new post. No one wants to read 199 or so posts and some
>>>of the posts were not related to my question.
>>>
>>>Thank you for all your helpful replies.
>>>
>>>
>>>It's possible that the BOSE speakers do not sound good in a large
>>>room.
>>>The Room I have my BOSE speakers in is 5 x 3.5 meters. The distance
>>>from the speakers is 3 meters.
>>>The BOSE sub woofer is in a corner facing the wall so that low
>>>frequency sound bounces off the wall giving me more bass volume.
>>>If I turn up the volume too high then the speakers don't sound so
>>>good, for example when I say loud I mean so loud that I can't hear the
>>>speech of someone standing next to me. I normally have the volume loud
>>>enough to hear the phone ring or are able to talk to someone next to
>>>me without shouting.
>>>
>>>So what I'm saying is BOSE can sound good but only in a certain setup.
>>>
>>>I had a listen a pair of Paradigm speakers. One was called "Esprit"
>>>the other "Phantion". They're floor standing speakers. They seem to
>>>sound their best with music that rapidly changes in volume such as
>>>orchestra music that has impact as they have a wide dynamic range.
>>>They lacked in imaging and in deep bass as there low frequency
>>>response was 45Hz.
>>>
>>>Regards Brian
>>>
>>
>>I want to be polite but simply put with no way around it you are just
>>plain wrong about your observations. Unless you are using them as
>>headphones and even then your results are questionable. Have you ever
>>heard a real hifi? The previous thread had links to detailed
>>information regarding the inadequacies of bose systems did you read
>>them. You are really turning into a troll or someone with severe buyers
>>remorse trying to convince themselves of something is scientifically
>>untrue. If bose floats your boat then be quiet and float away but don't
>>be a FOOL and try to convince rational audiophiles that bose is anything
>> even nearly resembling true fidelity. Bose is an attempt at getting a
>>certain kind of concert like live sound it is not accurate 20Hz-20kHz
>>+/- 3dB sound reproduction. That said a pair of good tweeters costs
>>more than those dinky distortion producing non uniform frequency
>>outputting mid bass drivers (if they can even be called that) that are
>>in your bose system. Please sit in your room and listen to your bose
>>system and enjoy it, because I'm sure it can be enjoyable but again
>>don't try to convince anyone that it's hifi. Thanks.
>
>
> Please do be polite.
> I believe that some speakers are better for Rock music, some speakers
> are better for classical music and some speakers are better for
> movies.
> These days you have buy a set of 5 speakers and a sub for $199 at a
> store that sells food, but I'm sure they would be much worse than BOSE
> speakers.
> I took peoples advice and listened to a pair of Paradigm speakers. I
> was hoping to listen to other speakers but the sells man seemed to be
> keen on wanting me to listen to only this brand of speakers.
> I'm hoping to listen to other brands of speakers. Ideally it would be
> good to setup a pair of speakers in my home and that way I could get
> to hear what they really sound like, but most dealers are not keen on
> having speakers go out of the store for a demo.
>
> I'm not tone death or brain dead as you said. I have an open mind else
> I would not bother to read the replys or listen to other speakers.
>
> Regards Brian
You can't correct a wrong with another and use that as a basis for
thinking that the first wrong is then correct. If you want to stay in a
budget I think you need to go with used equipment. Pick up a pair of
ADS speakers on ebay. You can get a pair that used to sell for $800 for
around $200. Models L810, L710, L780, L520. It can be a four driver
three way system or a three driver three way system or a two driver two
way system. Any of those will serve you well and far outperform the
paradigm or the bose. Go take a look and post back as to what you are
considering we'll guide you along as to if they look OK. Here is an
example:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=...

These will sound fine and are in great condition. Another option is to
get a pair of B&W. I've been following them in ebay lately trying to
zero in on a purchase here are the average selling prices over the last
month. You can try for a pair of DM601 S1.


Series 1
600
601 276
602 374
602.5
603 495
604 705

Series 2
600
601 339
602 398
602.5
603 627
604 925
605 885

Series 3
600 297
601 335
602 491
602.5 576
603
604


Either the ADS or the B&W are fine speakers and will play loud and NOT
DISTORT, they have full bandwidth and smooth clear sound with very good
imaging)

What say you?
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 2:10:50 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.option,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

On 3/31/05 5:10 AM, in article ffin41p2rg20fvct2rmg8s4481idta0ihh@4ax.com,
"Brian" <bclark@es.co.nz> wrote:

> I'm not tone death or brain dead as you said.

Brian (again) and All you guys gals and others,
get the fraggin crossposts cleaned up so
this thread ONLY shows up WHERe it's REALLY WANTED.

No reason not to.

It's Quick!
It's Fun!
It's EASY!
It earns you the respect and eternal homage of
Well
SOMEBODY I'd guess.
Just Do It.
Now
Please.
Thanks
April 1, 2005 2:15:22 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.option,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

ren <ren@ren.ren> wrote:

>Brian wrote:
>> I had so many replies in my last post about BOSE that I thought I'd
>> better start a new post. No one wants to read 199 or so posts and some
>> of the posts were not related to my question.
>>
>More on Bose. It's a never ending oddesy.
> >
>> Thank you for all your helpful replies.
>>
>But did they make an impression? Did you look at some of the posted
>links that discuss the Bose dilemma in detail?
>>
>> It's possible that the BOSE speakers do not sound good in a large
>> room.
>> The Room I have my BOSE speakers in is 5 x 3.5 meters. The distance
>> from the speakers is 3 meters.
> >
>Very scientific.
> >
>> The BOSE sub woofer is in a corner facing the wall so that low
>> frequency sound bounces off the wall giving me more bass volume.
> >
>Yes more reflection gives more bass but...ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
> >
>> If I turn up the volume too high then the speakers don't sound so
>> good, for example when I say loud I mean so loud that I can't hear the
>> speech of someone standing next to me. I normally have the volume loud
>> enough to hear the phone ring or are able to talk to someone next to
>> me without shouting.
> >
>This is also an indication of the fact that even when you can't hear the
>speakers distorting at lower volumes they still are.
>>
>> So what I'm saying is BOSE can sound good but only in a certain setup.
>>
>Totally subjective but yes they can if that is what you like, just don't
>call them hifi or be under the misconception you can't get better
>fidelity (more true output in relation to the source) for the same money.
> >
>> I had a listen a pair of Paradigm speakers. One was called "Esprit"
>> the other "Phantion". They're floor standing speakers. They seem to
>> sound their best with music that rapidly changes in volume such as
>> orchestra music that has impact as they have a wide dynamic range.
>> They lacked in imaging and in deep bass as there low frequency
>> response was 45Hz.
> >
>You Bose system probably doesn't go anywhere near that low and if you
>put the Paradigm in the same corner where your sub is they would be
>considerably lower sounding than your Bose sub. But you are saying that
>the Bose have better imaging? I would submit that if you had the
>Paradigm setup in your room not the store that the imaging would be far
>superior to the Bose.
> >
>> Regards Brian
>>
>Ren says enjoy your Bose but you should really read some of those links
>listed in the previous thread. Hey if you like the way they sound then
>that's the whole point but you should try and hook up with an audiophile
>can let you listen to a hifi system I think you will be impressed.

I have read all the 200+ replies and are reading the links, some links
have been very helpful.
I'm beginning to think that saterlite speakers are good for surround
sound movies and bookself or floor standing speakers are good for
music.

Regards Brian
April 1, 2005 2:15:23 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.option,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

Brian wrote:
> ren <ren@ren.ren> wrote:
>
>
>>Brian wrote:
>>
>>>I had so many replies in my last post about BOSE that I thought I'd
>>>better start a new post. No one wants to read 199 or so posts and some
>>>of the posts were not related to my question.
>>>
>>
>>More on Bose. It's a never ending oddesy.
>>
>>>Thank you for all your helpful replies.
>>>
>>
>>But did they make an impression? Did you look at some of the posted
>>links that discuss the Bose dilemma in detail?
>>
>>>It's possible that the BOSE speakers do not sound good in a large
>>>room.
>>>The Room I have my BOSE speakers in is 5 x 3.5 meters. The distance
>>>from the speakers is 3 meters.
>>>
>>
>>Very scientific.
>>
>>>The BOSE sub woofer is in a corner facing the wall so that low
>>>frequency sound bounces off the wall giving me more bass volume.
>>>
>>
>>Yes more reflection gives more bass but...ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
>>
>>>If I turn up the volume too high then the speakers don't sound so
>>>good, for example when I say loud I mean so loud that I can't hear the
>>>speech of someone standing next to me. I normally have the volume loud
>>>enough to hear the phone ring or are able to talk to someone next to
>>>me without shouting.
>>>
>>
>>This is also an indication of the fact that even when you can't hear the
>>speakers distorting at lower volumes they still are.
>>
>>>So what I'm saying is BOSE can sound good but only in a certain setup.
>>>
>>
>>Totally subjective but yes they can if that is what you like, just don't
>>call them hifi or be under the misconception you can't get better
>>fidelity (more true output in relation to the source) for the same money.
>>
>>>I had a listen a pair of Paradigm speakers. One was called "Esprit"
>>>the other "Phantion". They're floor standing speakers. They seem to
>>>sound their best with music that rapidly changes in volume such as
>>>orchestra music that has impact as they have a wide dynamic range.
>>>They lacked in imaging and in deep bass as there low frequency
>>>response was 45Hz.
>>>
>>
>>You Bose system probably doesn't go anywhere near that low and if you
>>put the Paradigm in the same corner where your sub is they would be
>>considerably lower sounding than your Bose sub. But you are saying that
>>the Bose have better imaging? I would submit that if you had the
>>Paradigm setup in your room not the store that the imaging would be far
>>superior to the Bose.
>>
>>>Regards Brian
>>>
>>
>>Ren says enjoy your Bose but you should really read some of those links
>>listed in the previous thread. Hey if you like the way they sound then
>>that's the whole point but you should try and hook up with an audiophile
>>can let you listen to a hifi system I think you will be impressed.
>
>
> I have read all the 200+ replies and are reading the links, some links
> have been very helpful.
> I'm beginning to think that saterlite speakers are good for surround
> sound movies and bookself or floor standing speakers are good for
> music.
>
> Regards Brian
Then Brian you are in denial. I just reread the Bose FAQ link that was
posted, it boggles my imagination (which is very rich) on how you can
ignore everything in there and make up conclusions like a distinction
between movies and music to justify the Bose systems lack of performance.

Here then is the part that is upsetting. Your Bose in hifi circle are
good for nothing. But they are advertised well and uniformed people buy
them thinking they own the holy grail. Now you are informed but you
can't accept that they are low quality. If you enjoy listening to them
it doesn't mean they are good, just that they are good to you.

I've had enough of your Bose misconceptions for a lifetime. Enjoy your
speakers and stand on the rooftops and shout they rock. You will find a
lot of company that agrees but in the back of your mind you will know
your moped is not a Ferrari at all.
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 2:15:23 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.option,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

On 3/31/05 5:15 AM, in article j8jn41l33imdtjuvqssncvqgsgvsr75mk0@4ax.com,
"Brian" <bclark@es.co.nz> wrote:
> I have read all the 200+ replies and are reading the links,

Brian (again AGAIN) and All you guys gals and others,
get the fraggin crossposts cleaned up so
this thread ONLY shows up WHERe it's REALLY WANTED.

No reason not to.

It's Quick!
It's Fun!
It's EASY!
It earns you the respect and eternal homage of
Well
SOMEBODY I'd guess.
Just Do It.
Now
Please.
Thanks
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 2:15:24 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.option,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

On 3/31/05 6:14 AM, in article TYQ2e.12402$fp7.343@fe10.lga, "ren"
<ren@ren.ren> wrote:

> I've had enough of your Bose misconceptions for a lifetime.

Indeed, ren, this whole thread echoes that in many ways and that's why it's
a Good Thing that you and All you guys gals and others,
get the fraggin crossposts cleaned up so
this thread ONLY shows up WHERe it's REALLY WANTED.

No reason not to.

It's Quick!
It's Fun!
It's EASY!
It earns you the respect and eternal homage of
Well
SOMEBODY I'd guess.
Just Do It.
Now
Please.
Thanks
April 1, 2005 2:19:17 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.option,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

RichA <none@none.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 11:08:04 +1200, Brian <bclark@es.co.nz> wrote:
>
>>I had so many replies in my last post about BOSE that I thought I'd
>>better start a new post. No one wants to read 199 or so posts and some
>>of the posts were not related to my question.
>>
>>Thank you for all your helpful replies.
>>
>>
>>It's possible that the BOSE speakers do not sound good in a large
>>room.
>>The Room I have my BOSE speakers in is 5 x 3.5 meters. The distance
>>from the speakers is 3 meters.
>>The BOSE sub woofer is in a corner facing the wall so that low
>>frequency sound bounces off the wall giving me more bass volume.
>>If I turn up the volume too high then the speakers don't sound so
>>good, for example when I say loud I mean so loud that I can't hear the
>>speech of someone standing next to me. I normally have the volume loud
>>enough to hear the phone ring or are able to talk to someone next to
>>me without shouting.
>>
>>So what I'm saying is BOSE can sound good but only in a certain setup.
>>
>>I had a listen a pair of Paradigm speakers. One was called "Esprit"
>>the other "Phantion". They're floor standing speakers. They seem to
>>sound their best with music that rapidly changes in volume such as
>>orchestra music that has impact as they have a wide dynamic range.
>>They lacked in imaging and in deep bass as there low frequency
>>response was 45Hz.
>>
>>Regards Brian
>>
>
>Paradigm are garbage. Cheap componentry and the wattage handling
>ratings are way too high. The produced a set of self-powered speakers
>some years back. The components they used for the internal amps
>weren't even fit for a sub-woofer and those parts which cost around
>$12 per speaker effectively doubled the speaker price versus the
>non-powered ones. When they bought Sonic Frontiers it was a black
>day in audio.
>-Rich

Thanks for your comment Rich. I was hoping someone would comment on
these speakers. The advert seems to suggest that they are budget
speakers and they are not expensive so like you say they don't sound
as good as other speakers (BOSE not included).

Regards Brian
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 2:19:18 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.option,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

On 3/31/05 5:19 AM, in article iejn415gdru04fthoj6ob6r6871qm5ssuk@4ax.com,
"Brian" <bclark@es.co.nz> wrote:
> Thanks for your comment Rich.

Brian (yet again) and All you guys gals and others,
get the fraggin crossposts cleaned up so
this thread ONLY shows up WHERe it's REALLY WANTED.

No reason not to.

It's Quick!
It's Fun!
It's EASY!
It earns you the respect and eternal homage of
Well
SOMEBODY I'd guess.
Just Do It.
Now
Please.
Thanks
April 1, 2005 2:29:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.opinion (More info?)

"Geoff Wood" <geoff@nospam-paf.co.nz> wrote:

>
>"Brian" <bclark@es.co.nz> wrote in message
>news:hfbm41t4quh9t5f6rsgitufar47crvvoat@4ax.com...
>>I had so many replies in my last post about BOSE that I thought I'd
>> better start a new post. No one wants to read 199 or so posts and some
>> of the posts were not related to my question.
>>
>> Thank you for all your helpful replies.
>>
>>
>> It's possible that the BOSE speakers do not sound good in a large
>> room.
>> The Room I have my BOSE speakers in is 5 x 3.5 meters. The distance
>> from the speakers is 3 meters.
>> The BOSE sub woofer is in a corner facing the wall so that low
>> frequency sound bounces off the wall giving me more bass volume.
>> If I turn up the volume too high then the speakers don't sound so
>> good, for example when I say loud I mean so loud that I can't hear the
>> speech of someone standing next to me. I normally have the volume loud
>> enough to hear the phone ring or are able to talk to someone next to
>> me without shouting.
>
>What you describe is not 'good sound' by any stretch of the imagination.
I'm just saying that BOSE have limits
>
>A turd in a big room is still a turd in a small room.
All I'm saying is they become unbearable to listen to at a higher
volume.
>
>geoff
>>
>> So what I'm saying is BOSE can sound good but only in a certain setup.
>>
>> I had a listen a pair of Paradigm speakers. One was called "Esprit"
>> the other "Phantion". They're floor standing speakers. They seem to
>> sound their best with music that rapidly changes in volume such as
>> orchestra music that has impact as they have a wide dynamic range.
>
>You mean that the Bosii have poor dynamic range, and you prefer 'flat' music
No I'm saying that I was impressed with the speakers by hearing an
impact when the music suddendly increased in volume such as classical
music does. So maybe the speakers are better suited to orchestra
music.
>?
>
>> They lacked in imaging and in deep bass as there low frequency
>> response was 45Hz.
>
> 'Deep bass' cannot exist in a small room like that. It to do with things
>like physics and wavelength. The great quantity of whatever you are getting
>by 'subwoofer' placement is NOT deep bass.
What ever was lacking.

>
>
>geoff
>

Thanks for your comments geoff

Regards Brian
April 1, 2005 2:29:03 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.opinion (More info?)

snip
>>
>>>They lacked in imaging and in deep bass as there low frequency
>>>response was 45Hz.
>>
>>'Deep bass' cannot exist in a small room like that. It to do with things
>>like physics and wavelength. The great quantity of whatever you are getting
>>by 'subwoofer' placement is NOT deep bass.
>
> What ever was lacking.
>
>
>>
>>geoff
>>
>
>
> Thanks for your comments geoff
>
> Regards Brian
>
Glad to see you thanking rational posters BUT DO YOU UNDERSTAND and more
importantly ACCEPT REALITY.
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 2:29:03 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.opinion (More info?)

On 3/31/05 5:29 AM, in article 7pjn4154tcidhc6ad8sja47ret3ju57ldm@4ax.com,
"Brian" <bclark@es.co.nz> wrote:
(SNIP a LONNNNNG totally uneccessary string of rerererereqotes ending in the
absurdly minimal actual new content consisting soley of...))

> Thanks for your comments geoff

Brian (even yet more again) and All you guys gals and others,
get the fraggin crossposts cleaned up so
this thread ONLY shows up WHERe it's REALLY WANTED.

No reason not to.

It's Quick!
It's Fun!
It's EASY!
It earns you the respect and eternal homage of
Well
SOMEBODY I'd guess.
Just Do It.
Now
Please.
Thanks
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 2:29:04 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.opinion (More info?)

On 3/31/05 6:16 AM, in article y_Q2e.12403$Fr7.835@fe10.lga, "ren"
<ren@ren.ren> wrote:
> Glad to see you thanking rational posters BUT DO YOU UNDERSTAND and more
> importantly ACCEPT REALITY.

Reality... Ahhh! Yes reality of keeping threads out of uninterested groups!
Reality that steers strongly towards you and All you guys gals and others,
get the fraggin crossposts cleaned up so
this thread ONLY shows up WHERe it's REALLY WANTED.

No reason not to.

It's Quick!
It's Fun!
It's EASY!
It earns you the respect and eternal homage of
Well
SOMEBODY I'd guess.
Just Do It.
Now
Please.
Thanks
April 1, 2005 2:34:03 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.option,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

playon <playonAT@comcast.net> wrote:

>On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 11:08:04 +1200, Brian <bclark@es.co.nz> wrote:
>
>>The BOSE sub woofer is in a corner facing the wall so that low
>>frequency sound bounces off the wall giving me more bass volume.
>
>Right...

Does that mean you agree with me.
I think I got the idea of facing the bass and sub woofer speaker at
the wall from a HiFi magazine.

Regards Brian
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 2:34:04 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.option,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

On 3/31/05 5:34 AM, in article uekn41hfra510miq3viq1nlf7vmp61cnfc@4ax.com,
"Brian" <bclark@es.co.nz> wrote:

> Does that mean you agree with me.

Probably, as long as in includes the concept that
yourself and All you guys gals and others,
get the fraggin crossposts cleaned up so
this thread ONLY shows up WHERe it's REALLY WANTED.

No reason not to.

It's Quick!
It's Fun!
It's EASY!
It earns you the respect and eternal homage of
Well
SOMEBODY I'd guess.
Just Do It.
Now
Please.
Thanks
April 1, 2005 4:44:13 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.option,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 00:47:45 -0500, RichA <none@none.com> wrote:

>Paradigm are garbage.

Oh? IMO, they are very competitive in every price range they cover.
You really can't go too wrong with Paradigm.

>Cheap componentry

Nonsense. Better than average, for any given price level.

>and the wattage handling ratings are way too high.

No one with a clue puts any stock in wattage-handling ratings.
April 1, 2005 4:46:26 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.option,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 14:32:08 GMT, SSJVCmag <ten@nozirev.gamnocssj.com>
wrote:

>On 3/31/05 6:19 AM, in article d1R2e.12404$Ns7.727@fe10.lga, "ren"
><ren@ren.ren> wrote:
>
>> This is exactly what I mean. Brian I don't care what your preferences
>> are
>
>And really neither do folks on unassociated groups, which leaves many of us
>wondering just why it's such an intellectual challenge for you and All you
>guys gals and others, to
>get the fraggin crossposts cleaned up so
>this thread ONLY shows up WHERE it's REALLY WANTED.
>
>No reason not to.
>
>It's Quick!
>It's Fun!
>It's EASY!
>It earns you the respect and eternal homage of
>Well
>SOMEBODY I'd guess.
>Just Do It.
>Now
>Please.
>Thanks

Why don't you piss up a rope, you wanker?

It seems to me that this discussion is on-topic in all the groups it's
in. If you feel otherwise, SAY which group you think is
inappropriate.
April 1, 2005 5:31:47 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.option,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

ren <ren@ren.ren> wrote:

>Brian wrote:
>> ren <ren@ren.ren> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Brian wrote:
>>>
>>>>I had so many replies in my last post about BOSE that I thought I'd
>>>>better start a new post. No one wants to read 199 or so posts and some
>>>>of the posts were not related to my question.
>>>>
>>>
>>>More on Bose. It's a never ending oddesy.
>>>
>>>>Thank you for all your helpful replies.
>>>>
>>>
>>>But did they make an impression? Did you look at some of the posted
>>>links that discuss the Bose dilemma in detail?
>>>
>>>>It's possible that the BOSE speakers do not sound good in a large
>>>>room.
>>>>The Room I have my BOSE speakers in is 5 x 3.5 meters. The distance
>>>>from the speakers is 3 meters.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Very scientific.
>>>
>>>>The BOSE sub woofer is in a corner facing the wall so that low
>>>>frequency sound bounces off the wall giving me more bass volume.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Yes more reflection gives more bass but...ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
>>>
>>>>If I turn up the volume too high then the speakers don't sound so
>>>>good, for example when I say loud I mean so loud that I can't hear the
>>>>speech of someone standing next to me. I normally have the volume loud
>>>>enough to hear the phone ring or are able to talk to someone next to
>>>>me without shouting.
>>>>
>>>
>>>This is also an indication of the fact that even when you can't hear the
>>>speakers distorting at lower volumes they still are.
>>>
>>>>So what I'm saying is BOSE can sound good but only in a certain setup.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Totally subjective but yes they can if that is what you like, just don't
>>>call them hifi or be under the misconception you can't get better
>>>fidelity (more true output in relation to the source) for the same money.
>>>
>>>>I had a listen a pair of Paradigm speakers. One was called "Esprit"
>>>>the other "Phantion". They're floor standing speakers. They seem to
>>>>sound their best with music that rapidly changes in volume such as
>>>>orchestra music that has impact as they have a wide dynamic range.
>>>>They lacked in imaging and in deep bass as there low frequency
>>>>response was 45Hz.
>>>>
>>>
>>>You Bose system probably doesn't go anywhere near that low and if you
>>>put the Paradigm in the same corner where your sub is they would be
>>>considerably lower sounding than your Bose sub. But you are saying that
>>>the Bose have better imaging? I would submit that if you had the
>>>Paradigm setup in your room not the store that the imaging would be far
>>>superior to the Bose.
>>>
>>>>Regards Brian
>>>>
>>>
>>>Ren says enjoy your Bose but you should really read some of those links
>>>listed in the previous thread. Hey if you like the way they sound then
>>>that's the whole point but you should try and hook up with an audiophile
>>>can let you listen to a hifi system I think you will be impressed.
>>
>>
>> I have read all the 200+ replies and are reading the links, some links
>> have been very helpful.
>> I'm beginning to think that saterlite speakers are good for surround
>> sound movies and bookself or floor standing speakers are good for
>> music.
>>
>> Regards Brian
>Then Brian you are in denial. I just reread the Bose FAQ link that was
>posted, it boggles my imagination (which is very rich) on how you can
>ignore everything in there and make up conclusions like a distinction
>between movies and music to justify the Bose systems lack of performance.
>
>Here then is the part that is upsetting. Your Bose in hifi circle are
>good for nothing. But they are advertised well and uniformed people buy
>them thinking they own the holy grail. Now you are informed but you
>can't accept that they are low quality. If you enjoy listening to them
>it doesn't mean they are good, just that they are good to you.
>
>I've had enough of your Bose misconceptions for a lifetime. Enjoy your
>speakers and stand on the rooftops and shout they rock. You will find a
>lot of company that agrees but in the back of your mind you will know
>your moped is not a Ferrari at all.

In my statement " I'm beginning to think that satellite speakers are
good for surround sound movies and bookshelf or floor standing
speakers are good for music."
I was NOT referring to BOSE speakers. I was meaning any brand of
speaker.

Regards Brian
April 1, 2005 5:35:14 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.opinion (More info?)

ren <ren@ren.ren> wrote:

>snip
>>>
>>>>They lacked in imaging and in deep bass as there low frequency
>>>>response was 45Hz.
>>>
>>>'Deep bass' cannot exist in a small room like that. It to do with things
>>>like physics and wavelength. The great quantity of whatever you are getting
>>>by 'subwoofer' placement is NOT deep bass.
>>
>> What ever was lacking.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>geoff
>>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for your comments geoff
>>
>> Regards Brian
>>
>Glad to see you thanking rational posters BUT DO YOU UNDERSTAND and more
>importantly ACCEPT REALITY.

I don't mind being the student.
I have a thirst for knowledge.
I'm not disagreeing with anyone.

Regards Brian
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 5:37:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

Brian wrote:

> I had so many replies in my last post about BOSE

This is entirely normal ! LOL


> that I thought I'd
> better start a new post. No one wants to read 199 or so posts and some
> of the posts were not related to my question.
>
> Thank you for all your helpful replies.

You're *sure* they were helpful ?


> It's possible that the BOSE speakers do not sound good in a large
> room.

I think that's a given actually. 4 inch speakers sound pretty rubbish even
in a car cabin.


> The Room I have my BOSE speakers in is 5 x 3.5 meters. The distance
> from the speakers is 3 meters.

Buy some decent speakers man !

I recently heard some of these and they are both compact and have a truly
awsome bass for their size plus a sonic transparency that beggars belief.

http://www.pmcloudspeaker.com/index2.html


Graham
April 1, 2005 5:40:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.option,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

ren <ren@ren.ren> wrote:

>Brian wrote:
>> ren <ren@ren.ren> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Brian wrote:
>>>
>>>>I had so many replies in my last post about BOSE that I thought I'd
>>>>better start a new post. No one wants to read 199 or so posts and some
>>>>of the posts were not related to my question.
>>>>
>>>>Thank you for all your helpful replies.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>It's possible that the BOSE speakers do not sound good in a large
>>>>room.
>>>>The Room I have my BOSE speakers in is 5 x 3.5 meters. The distance
>>>>from the speakers is 3 meters.
>>>>The BOSE sub woofer is in a corner facing the wall so that low
>>>>frequency sound bounces off the wall giving me more bass volume.
>>>>If I turn up the volume too high then the speakers don't sound so
>>>>good, for example when I say loud I mean so loud that I can't hear the
>>>>speech of someone standing next to me. I normally have the volume loud
>>>>enough to hear the phone ring or are able to talk to someone next to
>>>>me without shouting.
>>>>
>>>>So what I'm saying is BOSE can sound good but only in a certain setup.
>>>>
>>>>I had a listen a pair of Paradigm speakers. One was called "Esprit"
>>>>the other "Phantion". They're floor standing speakers. They seem to
>>>>sound their best with music that rapidly changes in volume such as
>>>>orchestra music that has impact as they have a wide dynamic range.
>>>>They lacked in imaging and in deep bass as there low frequency
>>>>response was 45Hz.
>>>>
>>>>Regards Brian
>>>>
>>>
>>>I want to be polite but simply put with no way around it you are just
>>>plain wrong about your observations. Unless you are using them as
>>>headphones and even then your results are questionable. Have you ever
>>>heard a real hifi? The previous thread had links to detailed
>>>information regarding the inadequacies of bose systems did you read
>>>them. You are really turning into a troll or someone with severe buyers
>>>remorse trying to convince themselves of something is scientifically
>>>untrue. If bose floats your boat then be quiet and float away but don't
>>>be a FOOL and try to convince rational audiophiles that bose is anything
>>> even nearly resembling true fidelity. Bose is an attempt at getting a
>>>certain kind of concert like live sound it is not accurate 20Hz-20kHz
>>>+/- 3dB sound reproduction. That said a pair of good tweeters costs
>>>more than those dinky distortion producing non uniform frequency
>>>outputting mid bass drivers (if they can even be called that) that are
>>>in your bose system. Please sit in your room and listen to your bose
>>>system and enjoy it, because I'm sure it can be enjoyable but again
>>>don't try to convince anyone that it's hifi. Thanks.
>>
>>
>> Please do be polite.
>> I believe that some speakers are better for Rock music, some speakers
>> are better for classical music and some speakers are better for
>> movies.
>> These days you have buy a set of 5 speakers and a sub for $199 at a
>> store that sells food, but I'm sure they would be much worse than BOSE
>> speakers.
>> I took peoples advice and listened to a pair of Paradigm speakers. I
>> was hoping to listen to other speakers but the sells man seemed to be
>> keen on wanting me to listen to only this brand of speakers.
>> I'm hoping to listen to other brands of speakers. Ideally it would be
>> good to setup a pair of speakers in my home and that way I could get
>> to hear what they really sound like, but most dealers are not keen on
>> having speakers go out of the store for a demo.
>>
>> I'm not tone death or brain dead as you said. I have an open mind else
>> I would not bother to read the replys or listen to other speakers.
>>
>> Regards Brian
>You can't correct a wrong with another and use that as a basis for
>thinking that the first wrong is then correct. If you want to stay in a
>budget I think you need to go with used equipment. Pick up a pair of
>ADS speakers on ebay. You can get a pair that used to sell for $800 for
>around $200. Models L810, L710, L780, L520. It can be a four driver
>three way system or a three driver three way system or a two driver two
>way system. Any of those will serve you well and far outperform the
>paradigm or the bose. Go take a look and post back as to what you are
>considering we'll guide you along as to if they look OK. Here is an
>example:
>
>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=...
>
>These will sound fine and are in great condition. Another option is to
>get a pair of B&W. I've been following them in ebay lately trying to
>zero in on a purchase here are the average selling prices over the last
>month. You can try for a pair of DM601 S1.
>
>
>Series 1
>600
>601 276
>602 374
>602.5
>603 495
>604 705
>
>Series 2
>600
>601 339
>602 398
>602.5
>603 627
>604 925
>605 885
>
>Series 3
>600 297
>601 335
>602 491
>602.5 576
>603
>604
>
>
>Either the ADS or the B&W are fine speakers and will play loud and NOT
>DISTORT, they have full bandwidth and smooth clear sound with very good
>imaging)
>
>What say you?

Thanks ren.
I've found in the past that I end up spending a bit more money than I
expected to else I limit my choice.
I hope to try some B&W speakers soon.

Regards Brian
April 1, 2005 5:40:30 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.option,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

Brian wrote:
> ren <ren@ren.ren> wrote:
>
>
>>Brian wrote:
>>
>>>ren <ren@ren.ren> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Brian wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I had so many replies in my last post about BOSE that I thought I'd
>>>>>better start a new post. No one wants to read 199 or so posts and some
>>>>>of the posts were not related to my question.
>>>>>
>>>>>Thank you for all your helpful replies.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>It's possible that the BOSE speakers do not sound good in a large
>>>>>room.
>>>>>The Room I have my BOSE speakers in is 5 x 3.5 meters. The distance
>>>>
>>>>>from the speakers is 3 meters.
>>>>
>>>>>The BOSE sub woofer is in a corner facing the wall so that low
>>>>>frequency sound bounces off the wall giving me more bass volume.
>>>>>If I turn up the volume too high then the speakers don't sound so
>>>>>good, for example when I say loud I mean so loud that I can't hear the
>>>>>speech of someone standing next to me. I normally have the volume loud
>>>>>enough to hear the phone ring or are able to talk to someone next to
>>>>>me without shouting.
>>>>>
>>>>>So what I'm saying is BOSE can sound good but only in a certain setup.
>>>>>
>>>>>I had a listen a pair of Paradigm speakers. One was called "Esprit"
>>>>>the other "Phantion". They're floor standing speakers. They seem to
>>>>>sound their best with music that rapidly changes in volume such as
>>>>>orchestra music that has impact as they have a wide dynamic range.
>>>>>They lacked in imaging and in deep bass as there low frequency
>>>>>response was 45Hz.
>>>>>
>>>>>Regards Brian
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I want to be polite but simply put with no way around it you are just
>>>>plain wrong about your observations. Unless you are using them as
>>>>headphones and even then your results are questionable. Have you ever
>>>>heard a real hifi? The previous thread had links to detailed
>>>>information regarding the inadequacies of bose systems did you read
>>>>them. You are really turning into a troll or someone with severe buyers
>>>>remorse trying to convince themselves of something is scientifically
>>>>untrue. If bose floats your boat then be quiet and float away but don't
>>>>be a FOOL and try to convince rational audiophiles that bose is anything
>>>>even nearly resembling true fidelity. Bose is an attempt at getting a
>>>>certain kind of concert like live sound it is not accurate 20Hz-20kHz
>>>>+/- 3dB sound reproduction. That said a pair of good tweeters costs
>>>>more than those dinky distortion producing non uniform frequency
>>>>outputting mid bass drivers (if they can even be called that) that are
>>>>in your bose system. Please sit in your room and listen to your bose
>>>>system and enjoy it, because I'm sure it can be enjoyable but again
>>>>don't try to convince anyone that it's hifi. Thanks.
>>>
>>>
>>>Please do be polite.
>>>I believe that some speakers are better for Rock music, some speakers
>>>are better for classical music and some speakers are better for
>>>movies.
>>>These days you have buy a set of 5 speakers and a sub for $199 at a
>>>store that sells food, but I'm sure they would be much worse than BOSE
>>>speakers.
>>>I took peoples advice and listened to a pair of Paradigm speakers. I
>>>was hoping to listen to other speakers but the sells man seemed to be
>>>keen on wanting me to listen to only this brand of speakers.
>>>I'm hoping to listen to other brands of speakers. Ideally it would be
>>>good to setup a pair of speakers in my home and that way I could get
>>>to hear what they really sound like, but most dealers are not keen on
>>>having speakers go out of the store for a demo.
>>>
>>>I'm not tone death or brain dead as you said. I have an open mind else
>>>I would not bother to read the replys or listen to other speakers.
>>>
>>>Regards Brian
>>
>>You can't correct a wrong with another and use that as a basis for
>>thinking that the first wrong is then correct. If you want to stay in a
>>budget I think you need to go with used equipment. Pick up a pair of
>>ADS speakers on ebay. You can get a pair that used to sell for $800 for
>>around $200. Models L810, L710, L780, L520. It can be a four driver
>>three way system or a three driver three way system or a two driver two
>>way system. Any of those will serve you well and far outperform the
>>paradigm or the bose. Go take a look and post back as to what you are
>>considering we'll guide you along as to if they look OK. Here is an
>>example:
>>
>>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=...
>>
>>These will sound fine and are in great condition. Another option is to
>>get a pair of B&W. I've been following them in ebay lately trying to
>>zero in on a purchase here are the average selling prices over the last
>>month. You can try for a pair of DM601 S1.
>>
>>
>>Series 1
>>600
>>601 276
>>602 374
>>602.5
>>603 495
>>604 705
>>
>>Series 2
>>600
>>601 339
>>602 398
>>602.5
>>603 627
>>604 925
>>605 885
>>
>>Series 3
>>600 297
>>601 335
>>602 491
>>602.5 576
>>603
>>604
>>
>>
>>Either the ADS or the B&W are fine speakers and will play loud and NOT
>>DISTORT, they have full bandwidth and smooth clear sound with very good
>>imaging)
>>
>>What say you?
>
>
> Thanks ren.
> I've found in the past that I end up spending a bit more money than I
> expected to else I limit my choice.
> I hope to try some B&W speakers soon.
>
> Regards Brian
Here is a less expensive B&W which I don't think will perform as well as
the DM600 series. BUT read the details and look at the graphs it will be
good for your thirst for knowledge. BTW plastic boxes like bose uses
really do a poor job with the accelerometer testing of the cabinet
resonances. This greatly colors/distorts the signal you are listening to.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item...
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 5:40:31 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

ren wrote:

> I'm not the expert here but just stuffing fiberglass I don't think will
> help. Maybe something like black hole 5 zalytron.com or the rubbery
> stuff that madisound.com sells might help if you can attach it to the
> inside walls it will dampen some of the resonances by thickening up the
> speaker walls.

Ok, I was thinking along the same lines. I am actualy thinking of
stuffing large amounts of blue-tack, two-three packs per speaker, into
the buggers, plus some traditional dampening material...
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 5:49:44 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

Brian wrote:

> playon <playonAT@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 11:08:04 +1200, Brian <bclark@es.co.nz> wrote:
> >
> >>The BOSE sub woofer is in a corner facing the wall so that low
> >>frequency sound bounces off the wall giving me more bass volume.
> >
> >Right...
>
> Does that mean you agree with me.
> I think I got the idea of facing the bass and sub woofer speaker at
> the wall from a HiFi magazine.

This kind of thing was considered a neat idea back in the 50s, Brian !
Technology has moved on a teensy weensy bit since then !

Whatever you do - *don't* use most so-called 'hi-fi' magazines as a
reliable source of info. They're there to sell adverts - that's all.

You might try reading the pro-audio press but even that is getting
polluted by snake oil purveyors now.


Graham
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 5:49:45 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

>Brian wrote:
>
>> playon <playonAT@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> >On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 11:08:04 +1200, Brian <bclark@es.co.nz> wrote:
>> >
>> >>The BOSE sub woofer is in a corner facing the wall so that low
>> >>frequency sound bounces off the wall giving me more bass volume.
>> >
>> >Right...
>>
>> Does that mean you agree with me.

No, it means I think you are ignorant.

Al
!