Questions for FatBurger

I've been looking into the Game Theatre line of sound cards that it appears you are a dedicated fan of from your previous posts, I'm presently using the SB Audigy Gamer. I've looked at some references to the Game Theatre and it appears to be a link to MB PCI card, connecting cable, and an external sound card powered box. My questions are that I couldn't really tell what kind of conections went from the sound box, could you elaborate on that? Have you used the Audigy line of Creative cards to come to the conclusions you have? Do you think the difference between the two would be worth me going to that card series, I can always put the Audigy card in my wifes machine? Lastly is there some comparison performance specs anywhere listed between the two cards? This post was listed for FatBurger because of his previous posts, but any responses are welcomed. Thank You!
 

williamc

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A month ago now, HamBurger and AMD_Woman :lol: convinced me to try the GTXP. I had an Audigy before and i find the GTXP a far better buy. You lose EAX Advanced HD, but gain much better positioning, clarity, and warmth of sound. Especially worth it if like me you love headphones. But still a definite improvement with speakers. There's less reverb on the GTXP but its there, it sounds more realistic if you ask me. The GTXP uses the breakout box for all connections, if you'd rather it like hte audigy try the Turtle Beach Santa Cruz, its the same as the GTXP really cept its got connections on the card instead of the breakout box. For a list of connections etc...try <A HREF="http://www.3dsoundsurge.com" target="_new">http://www.3dsoundsurge.com</A>'s review of it. They go very in depth into every single detail of the cards they review. Its got everything the audigy has and a lot more to boot. Including 2 usb connections on the front and 2 on the back. Doesnt get better than this for anywhere near the price.

GTXP definitely beats out the audigy for pure sound quality, positioning, drivers, and value.

The itsy bitsy spider climbed up the empires state building, along came goblin, wiped the spider out<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by williamc on 05/21/02 11:17 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
 

FatBurger

Illustrious
There is a PCI card with one 44-pin connector and one line in (as well as the CD in on the inside of the case, of course). The cable that goes between the card and box is pretty beefy, but not too bad. Then the box has the same 44-pin connector on it.

Have you used the Audigy line of Creative cards to come to the conclusions you have?

I've never owned one myself, but I've used a friend's several times.

Do you think the difference between the two would be worth me going to that card series

You also have the external rack, which adds to the price. Unless you specifically want that, get a Turtle Beach Santa Cruz.

Lastly is there some comparison performance specs anywhere listed between the two cards?

Not that I can think of, but Creative lies on their specs, so it wouldn't be worth looking at.

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williamc

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, but Creative lies on their specs, so it wouldn't be worth looking at.
Technically they dont lie, they just exaggerate and greatly mislead. Difference being you can't sue em for false advertising etc...

Creative's specs look better due to their incredible exaggerations and misleading statements but in reality the GTXP is the superior card spec wise and sound wise all around. One thing the advertising doesn't even touch is the drivers which The Santa Cruz and GTXP have creative wooped at...

In the end, if you still want specs galore i once again direct you to <A HREF="http://www.3dsoundsurge.com" target="_new">http://www.3dsoundsurge.com</A>'s reviews.

The itsy bitsy spider climbed up the empires state building, along came goblin, wiped the spider out
 

FatBurger

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I'd call what they're doing lying, but you're right, it's not a straight out lie. It's not like they told you that the Audigy gives good blowjobs or something :eek:

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Conehead

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They exaggerate because most people (unlike us) can't tell the difference between what is advertised and what it really does.

"If there's grass on the field...play ball!!"
 

williamc

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Yea, that was nVidia. Said their graphic experience was better than ...well, nevermind. :cool:

I did find an improvment when listening to music on wimamp with MAD at 24bits instead of 16. However, that improvement was offset by other problems already disgussed. There is no statistic in use for soundcards atm which lets you know about noise problems etc=( The small small improvement wasnt nearly worth dealing with the noise and harsh sound. The audigy is a great card...but only for certain applications. The problem with manufacturers is they won't post any specs that reflect their card as worse than competitors. Creative mentions the fact that they only use 2% of your processing power. They DONT mention the fact that a typical isntall is something like 250Megs (thats without the experience demos). They also dont mention the fact that they hog your irq's and pci bus. They also don't mention the fact that use of EAX EAX2 and Advanced HD REALLY bogs down your system. They also dont mention that they NEVER update their drivers. They also don't mention that their outputs are extremely susceptible to interference and generate a freaking ton of noise at times. Spec's dont mean a thing anymore..

For Joe Comsumer, it is in the end essentially a lie..but Joe prolly wouldn't care as thats just for bragging rights anyhow. So, Joe would do fine with an audigy...Bob Soundgeek on the other hand has a legit complaint and would be better off with a different company. We're Bob's. Joe is the troll we see periodically-)

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ritesh_laud

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Creative mentions the fact that they only use 2% of your processing power. They DONT mention the fact that a typical isntall is something like 250Megs (thats without the experience demos). They also dont mention the fact that they hog your irq's and pci bus. They also don't mention the fact that use of EAX EAX2 and Advanced HD REALLY bogs down your system. They also dont mention that they NEVER update their drivers. They also don't mention that their outputs are extremely susceptible to interference and generate a freaking ton of noise at times. Spec's dont mean a thing anymore..
Wanted to avoid this thread because it's addressed to Fatburger, but now williamc's spreading a bit of exaggerated FUD with no links to back up his statements. The Audigy installation is only something like 20 megs or so, just make sure you don't install all the miscellaneous junk like demos and sample sounds etc. The card does not hog IRQs or the PCI bus (on an Intel chipset at least), it co-exists peacefully with other cards (I've got three other expansion cards in my system). The EAX reverb engine's CPU utilization is not an issue on modern systems (P3/700 or faster) and it's a good deal less than the Live!. The outputs are not any more "susceptible" to interference than any other sound card.

The only issue I agree with is that Creative's driver department is less than stellar and this goes back several years. They used to do regular updates in the days of the AWE32 but since the Live! they've just fallen apart in that area.

Ritesh
 

kinney

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Hello Ritesh! Its good to see you still defending the audigy against the infidels. :)

Basically, regardless of any factors, Jedi Knight 2 and SOF2 support EAX Advanced. Any hardcore gamer couldnt do without having the best surround efx possible, therefore Audigy is a must!

Athlon XP 1700+,KT266A,Geforce3, Audigy.. 'nuff said.
 

kinney

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Bah!

Facts are facts, if you want EAX Advanced in your current favorite games or future titles its Audigy or nothing.

Nothing naive about that just the truth.

Athlon XP 1700+,KT266A,Geforce3, Audigy.. 'nuff said.
 
I really didn't post this to start some kind of nuclear argument between warring soundcard factions, but to find out whether or not we were dealing with those that had actually tried each card their own selves and knew for a fact what the heck they were talking about. The Game Theatre or Santa Cruz are not even available in my area unless I order them online, I right now am running a SB Audigy Gamer Card that I haven't had any problems, that some have mentioned, what so ever, and my games and music and my 5.1 surround system rocks. So as far as I'm concerned, from the Specs I was referred to, none of the cards are perfect, its more of a preference of what you've chosen to go with, and personally I'm glad that Creative seems to do a good enough job with their drivers that they stand the test of time, and I don't have to run to the Creative site every time a new game comes out. So enjoy what you've got, good listening and good gaming to you. I'm outa here!
 

williamc

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People just dont read what i write....I used the Live 5.1 then the Audigy for over 9 months each. I am now fully converted to GTXP. As i carefully stated in previous posts, Advanced HD and massive Reverb is overrated. 1. because its rarly positioned properly by the audigy. 2. because massive reverb which is used to create these effects is not realistic sounding, it sounds downright funky. IF your an effects junky then by all means buy the audigy, just dont mistake it for high quality sound output. Its got alot of sound output for sure..but no where near as fine as the GTXP. I prefer the GTXP cause it sounds more realistic. It translates the sound clearer and better posisioned, which is more important to me than massive reverb and Advanced HD effects. Having played all but the very latest on both cards (the only one i havnt being SoF2, which, btw, sounds great on the GTXP) i can honestly say that i prefer the GTXP. If you wanna claim i'm some sort of biased freak spreading misinformation then your misinformed, i was fanatical about the audigy and loved it immensely until i found out for myself just how biased i was. Havning compared the two side by side, i no longer find i can enjoy the audigy's sound. Its harsh, its not well positioned, its effects are way overdone. And, its software install is indeed about 250MB unless your an "advanced user" who can go in and ajust it so you only install the bare minimums. Granted, we here are all more than advanced users(i hope). However, it remains true, the default audigy install is huge.

And just waht the heck is being implied now? That SC and GTXP users have to constantly upgrade their drivers for every new game? You can eat that if thats what your implying. At least we get driver updates...someone's been suckered into thinking no updates is a good thing. I've had to upgrade entire cards when i was with creative because they could care less about backwards compatibility.

I didn't have any technical problems with my audigy at all...but it did hog resources compared to other cards. Hogging resources is comparitive, not an absolute. If there were something even better then i could perhaps say GTXP hogs resources, at the time however, these cards are at the top. Fact: resource hungry games run better on GTXP/SC than on Audigy. Fact: Advanced HD EAX is a massive resource hog compared to anything else i can think of.

If you already own an audigy and love it and arent a sound quality nerd, stick with it, its a good card, no doubt about that, its second place in my book and thats quite high up. If you love games and sound quality though, you should at least give the SC/GTXP another look, it does have quality in at least a few areas that definitely surpasses the Audigy. If your addicted to reverb though, stay with the audigy, all reverb does is cover up the bad positioning. 3D effects come across very realistically on the GTXP so don't say the GTXP is lacking there, its not, its just not overdone.

The itsy bitsy spider climbed up the empires state building, along came goblin, wiped the spider out
 

williamc

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Any hardcore gamer couldnt do without having the best surround efx possible, therefore Audigy is a must!

Damn, my existence proves you wrong. Enjoying SoF2 and JK2 very much here on the GTXP thank you. Ghost Recon, as i said, prolly is the most advanced sound effects game out there and it was certainly the first to go so far. I enjoy Ghost Recon much more on the GTXP Than on the audigy, far more. I enjoy IW2:EoC far more on the GTXP too, yet another advanced sound game. GTA3 w/A3D sounds wonderfull as well, especially on headphones with the GTXP. Man, your worse than i am...making statements that cover ALL HARDCORE GAMERS?!? Ridiculous... I strongly argue that the GTXP has the best efx possible because of its quality at this time.

The itsy bitsy spider climbed up the empires state building, along came goblin, wiped the spider out
 

williamc

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You don't have any links to back up yours do you? okay then...nuff said, uncalled for flaming. Everything i've posted in this lengthly thread is from my own personal 1st hand experience. Didn't intend to start a huge sound card war either..but i obviously have...

last post in this thread for me...bash me all ya want,

The itsy bitsy spider climbed up the empires state building, along came goblin, wiped the spider out
 

FatBurger

Illustrious
Fact: Effects are the least important factor to a gamer. Since when does it matter more that the bullets have nice reverb, rather than which direction they're coming from?

Fact: As of our last conversation, you have NEVER HEARD ADVANCED HD. You're talking out of your ass.

Fact: Advanced HD is the ONLY thing that the Audigy has that competing cards don't.

<font color=blue>Hi mom!</font color=blue>
 

kinney

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In response to your ignorance I have a copy of JK2 here sitting next to me and have played the game with EAX Advanced. I wouldnt want to play without it now.

For this gamer, I want the best graphics/sound I can get as do most others. Just because you choose to attempt to discredit me saying how you don't need EAX Advanced, doesnt hold sh*t you little punk.

Just to show you how stupid you really are, when we had talked before I had heard EAX HD in the techdemos so how could even at that time have NO experience (since your all being nitpicky about posts, such as holding me to my 'all hardcore gamers want EAX HD' comment).

And just ONE more feature besides EAX Advanced,that the GTXP doesnt have is a firewire port, just noted to discredit you.
Quit acting like little girls and grow some balls, so you dont have EAX Advanced that just sucks for you.
Attacking me for that is not going to get that on your card and quit trolling around here about your crappy card.

Athlon XP 1700+,KT266A,Geforce3, Audigy.. 'nuff said.
 

FatBurger

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I have a copy of JK2 here sitting next to me and have played the game with EAX Advanced
Good, last time I talked to you you didn't.

I want the best graphics/sound I can get as do most others
That goes without saying.

I had heard EAX HD in the techdemos so how could even at that time have NO experience
Tech demos hold little weight in my mind (for any format, not just audio), because they generally are not a perfect indication of how it will be when actually implemented by other companies, and in full games.

And just ONE more feature besides EAX Advanced,that the GTXP doesnt have is a firewire port
Thank you, I forgot about that. I meant audio-only features, but firewire is definitely worth mentioning.


So you still have poor sound quality (my opinion) and bad 3D positioning. So your point is...?

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williamc

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FireWire? never used it..

4USB--use it all the time..

:smile: Just bein a nerd-P

If you like EAX Ad HD thats great. I don't. For the reasons i gave above.

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williamc

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Also supports A3D and A3D 2.0, sounds wonderful on the headphones-) Been playin it over the weekend.

The itsy bitsy spider climbed up the empires state building, along came goblin, wiped the spider out
 

williamc

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Interestingly enough, i can set A3D to 2.0 in GTA3 and I can set EAX to Advanced HD in JK2, and both sound just really damn fine... not sure what gives, but i'm happy... Havn't come across any bugs using those settings and the sounds seem good...really dont understand why it seems to work but it does.

The itsy bitsy spider climbed up the empires state building, along came goblin, wiped the spider out