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PDA = dinosaur?

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April 29, 2004 4:24:33 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

I've recently read an article about the "flat" PDA market (sorry, I
can't recall where... Wired, or Slashdot, perhaps?) and how PDA's are
going to disappear in the next few years, as the functions they
perform become more successfully combined with cell phones, etc.

Personally, I don't think so - I think that personal computers are
going to disappear as PDA's get more powerful and diverse, and start
to take over the functions that PC's now perform. My Zire 71 has more
memory and a faster processor (and better programs!) than the old
Pentium 75 I wrote my thesis on just 10 years ago! PDA CPU's are going
to be in the PIII processing power range in a few years. What's
missing right now is a better user interface - how about virtual
screens that you wear like glasses and a completely spoken input
system? Not impossible, IMHO.....

Anyways, I know I'm preaching to the converted in this forum, but I'm
just fishing for some thoughts from the community - what do YOU think?

ECM

More about : pda dinosaur

Anonymous
April 29, 2004 11:30:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.sys.palmtops.pilot,comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

"ECM" <thedeepabyss@whoever.com> wrote.
>
> Anyways, I know I'm preaching to the converted in this forum, but I'm
> just fishing for some thoughts from the community - what do YOU think?
>

I did an editorial on this subject recently:
http://www.brighthand.com/article/Will_Smart_Phones_Rep...

-Ed


--
Editor-in-Chief
http://www.brighthand.com
News, Views, and "Hands-On" Reviews of Handhelds of All Types
Anonymous
April 30, 2004 12:10:58 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

While intrepidly exploring comp.sys.palmtops.pilot, ECM rolled
initiative and posted the following:

> I've recently read an article about the "flat" PDA market
> (sorry, I can't recall where... Wired, or Slashdot, perhaps?)
> and how PDA's are going to disappear in the next few years, as
> the functions they perform become more successfully combined
> with cell phones, etc.

A market stall because everybody's happy with what they have
doesn't mean that the market is dead. Consider how many of us are
happy with the watch we have on our arm, and yet there's a whole
case of them at Target.

> Personally, I don't think so -

I don't think so either.

> I think that personal computers
> are going to disappear as PDA's get more powerful and diverse,
> and start to take over the functions that PC's now perform. My
> Zire 71 has more memory and a faster processor (and better
> programs!) than the old Pentium 75 I wrote my thesis on just 10
> years ago! PDA CPU's are going to be in the PIII processing
> power range in a few years. What's missing right now is a better
> user interface - how about virtual screens that you wear like
> glasses and a completely spoken input system? Not impossible,
> IMHO.....

This depends on what you mean by "disappear". If you mean that the
desktop CPU will be incorporated in a handheld unit, but that the
monitor, keyboard and mouse, and network card will connect with a
separate base station. You may be right. There' already a company
trying to market a WindowsXP unit that functions in this way.


If you mean that the entire desktop computer concept will
disappear, I think you're missing the mark. The fact that my m515
is more powerful than the 286 I wrote my honor's thesis on years
ago doesn't mean that I'd really rather work on the small screen of
my m515 - even if my PPK is just about as functional as my
desktop's keyboard.

IMHO, my Palm handheld is an adjunct to my desktop or laptop. It
cannot replace either in terms of total functionality without
becoming as big as either of them.

After all, have you ever considered doing image desing or photo
manipulation on a handheld? ;) 

--
Derek

Until you spread your wings, you'll have no idea how far you can
walk.
Related resources
Anonymous
April 30, 2004 12:55:03 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

ECM wrote:
> My Zire 71 has more
> memory and a faster processor (and better programs!) than the old
> Pentium 75 I wrote my thesis on just 10 years ago! PDA CPU's are going

uhm. Your old pentium 75 had a better keyboard, a much larger screen,
and much more storage memory than your zire. I won't think of writing a
thesis on a zire....


cheers,
piesse
Anonymous
April 30, 2004 6:39:53 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

While intrepidly exploring comp.sys.palmtops.pilot, piesse rolled
initiative and posted the following:

> ECM wrote:
>> My Zire 71 has more
>> memory and a faster processor (and better programs!) than the
>> old Pentium 75 I wrote my thesis on just 10 years ago! PDA
>> CPU's are going
>
> uhm. Your old pentium 75 had a better keyboard, a much larger
> screen, and much more storage memory than your zire. I won't
> think of writing a thesis on a zire....

While you'd win on keyboard and screen, my Pentium 100 came with a
1GB harddrive and 16MB of RAM. A Zire 72 has more RAM and with a
1GB SD card ties for storage.

Scary to think that my old Winders 95 machine was top of the line
at one point.

--
Derek

You can do anything you set your mind to when you have vision,
determination, and an endless supply of expendable labor.
Anonymous
April 30, 2004 9:48:46 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

"ECM" <thedeepabyss@whoever.com> wrote in message
news:93903fca.0404291124.5b458ce0@posting.google.com...
> I've recently read an article about the "flat" PDA market (sorry, I
> can't recall where... Wired, or Slashdot, perhaps?) and how PDA's are
> going to disappear in the next few years, as the functions they
> perform become more successfully combined with cell phones, etc.
>
> Personally, I don't think so - I think that personal computers are
> going to disappear as PDA's get more powerful and diverse, and start
> to take over the functions that PC's now perform. My Zire 71 has more
> memory and a faster processor (and better programs!) than the old
> Pentium 75 I wrote my thesis on just 10 years ago! PDA CPU's are going
> to be in the PIII processing power range in a few years. What's
> missing right now is a better user interface - how about virtual
> screens that you wear like glasses and a completely spoken input
> system? Not impossible, IMHO.....
>
> Anyways, I know I'm preaching to the converted in this forum, but I'm
> just fishing for some thoughts from the community - what do YOU think?
>
> ECM

The personal computer will not be replaced by the PDA because the gap between the
capabilities will remain. The PDA is becoming more powerful but so is the desktop and the
laptop. They all have their place.

Adam
April 30, 2004 11:57:58 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

piesse <piesse@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<HYdkc.167734$rM4.6909030@news4.tin.it>...
> ECM wrote:
> > My Zire 71 has more
> > memory and a faster processor (and better programs!) than the old
> > Pentium 75 I wrote my thesis on just 10 years ago! PDA CPU's are going
>
> uhm. Your old pentium 75 had a better keyboard, a much larger screen,
> and much more storage memory than your zire. I won't think of writing a
> thesis on a zire....
>
>
> cheers,
> piesse

Actually, my Pentium 75 was a Win 3.1 machine, with a 512MB PIO4 mode
HDD, and 8 MB RAM.... Screamin'! But not as "screamin'" as the Zire71
in my pocket....

As for the monitor, that's up for debate; I lost the cyan electron gun
3 months after I bought it, about 2 days after the 90 day warrantee
expired. I finished my thesis in deep purple and red, at 640X480 -
about what's available now on high end PDA's. I'll admit that if it
had been working, it would have been better than the screen on my
Zire, but not by much.

I have a 512 MB (along with a 256 and 64 MB) SD card; the access speed
for the card, I believe, is the same PIO4-mode speeds as the IDE drive
in that old deskchunk.

I have a keyboard, albeit a bit small for my hands, and awkward to use
if you don't have a table. I'll give you the keyboard; I think that
input methods for PDA's have to improve - that's why I was mentioning
the Sci-Fi stuff (virtual monitors, completely voice activated OS,
etc) in my initial post. All that's missing is wireless internet and
LAN access (which comes on the high end PDA's now) and I'd be set!

Good Luck!
ECM
Anonymous
April 30, 2004 4:32:50 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Im not sure a smart phone is th way to go either

Im more inclined to think it best to keep the PDA portion and the
phone portion separate units..... but let them "talk" to each other
via Bluetooth or whatever

Agree?
Anonymous
April 30, 2004 5:04:48 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 06:48:46 +0100, Adam Helberg wrote
(in article <2Nlkc.14965$eZ5.9960@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>):

[snipped]

> The personal computer will not be replaced by the PDA because the gap
> between the
> capabilities will remain. The PDA is becoming more powerful but so is the
> desktop and the
> laptop. They all have their place.
>


Personally I think that's a pretty bold statement and one that I think the
next decade will prove completely wrong (how's that for a bold statement as
well).

Once the power problem has been solved, and that to me is the really big
problem, I think we'll see convergence of personal devices. In ten years the
desktop and laptop will be gone for all but specialist uses and smaller
connected devices will be the norm.

No idea what they'll look like but I seriously doubt I'd be typing this
message on anything that looks like an iBook in 2014.

Andy
Anonymous
April 30, 2004 5:04:49 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

While intrepidly exploring comp.sys.palmtops.pilot, Andy Mulhearn
rolled initiative and posted the following:

> Once the power problem has been solved, and that to me is the
> really big problem, I think we'll see convergence of personal
> devices. In ten years the desktop and laptop will be gone for
> all but specialist uses and smaller connected devices will be
> the norm.
>
> No idea what they'll look like but I seriously doubt I'd be
> typing this message on anything that looks like an iBook in
> 2014.

I don't know about that. I think that in the next 10 years, the
traditional "Desktop" will be replaced for all but "power users and
gamers" and everyone else will move to a laptop.

It's possible that in 2014 a laptop chassis will have a removable
PDA unit, but I'm not interested. Most of the data I have on my
desktop (or laptop) is NOT stuff I want to be carrying around with
me.

--
Derek

Then there was the guy who loved his wife so much, he almost told
her.
Anonymous
April 30, 2004 5:04:49 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Hello,

AH> ...The PDA is becoming more powerful but so is the
> desktop and the laptop. They all have their place.

AM> Personally I think that's a pretty bold statement and
> one that I think the next decade will prove completely
> wrong (how's that for a bold statement as well).

I'm with Andy H. on this one. Because what I'm looking for
in a palmtop is atypical (e.g. an 80-column screen for use
as an SSH terminal) at least one friend laughs, saying "You
don't want a palmtop, you want a laptop that fits in your
pocket!". A palmtop like that would meet about 80% of my
mobile needs (Vs. about 60% if I ditch a few "requirements"
and pick up a Zire 21). It would be great to get away from
carting a heavy, bulky laptop/notebook computer every day as
I do now, but realistically I can see that there are
applications where a larger screen and keyboard are needed
(even if the processing power were equivalent).

Desktop computers are a pet peeve of mine. I don't object
to them in principal, but the realisation seems to leave a
lot to be desired. I predict that your average desktop
computer will continue to be a hideous, bulky energy-hog
with plenty of unnecessary (all-to-often moving) parts. This
prediction is based on the fact that there has been plenty
of opportunity to fix them before now, but people seem to
have a very blinkered idea about what you can put on a
person's desk.

Laptops don't make good desktop replacements, not least
because many of them seem to be designed so that they'll
keep trying to charge the battery even when it's full (this
ruins the battery). Docking stations (for laptop or PDA)
might get around the screen & keyboard limitations, but I
know that many offices prefer the convenience of having a
machine dedicated to each desk (ideally one that can be
bolted down). That way, Joe's office doesn't become unusable
just because he's off sick and his system unit is in his
jacket pocket!

- Andy Ball
Anonymous
April 30, 2004 5:04:49 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Andy Mulhearn <unxmully@netcomuk.co.uk> wrote:

> Once the power problem has been solved, and that to me is the really
> big problem, I think we'll see convergence of personal devices.

Short of someone discovering some safe and as of yet unknown or
uncontrollable chemical reactions, don't count on battery technology to
advance THAT much. Fuel cells aren't all they're cranked up to be -- the
only big savings are likely to be in manufacturing costs and recycling woes.
Then we're down to the other side of the equation -- power consumption.
This *will* rise, despite more efficient parts eventually becoming a
priority. Look at laptops -- even though the new CPU's and other components
are designed more energy-efficient than before, they're overtaken by Moore's
law, and laws of nature. If you increase the clock speed by 4x while at the
same time decreasing the energy use to half as much per cycle, you'll double
the overall energy consumption. That's why laptops today have fans, and
have been renamed notebooks due to liability claims after lap burns.

Only if we consumers stop demanding "more, more!" can the devices get a
chance to catch up on the power side too. And yes, that will happen, as
surely as people have stopped demanding that their TV set also plays videos,
act as a stereo, and has a built-in lamp. Sooner or later, consumers will
want devices that do one job, but one job well, instead of the Swiss Army
Knife approach we now see, and which is common to any new technology.

Regards,
--
*Art
Anonymous
April 30, 2004 5:04:50 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Andy Ball <ball@not.valid> wrote:

> I'm with Andy H. on this one. Because what I'm looking for
> in a palmtop is atypical (e.g. an 80-column screen for use
> as an SSH terminal) at least one friend laughs, saying "You
> don't want a palmtop, you want a laptop that fits in your
> pocket!".

Substitute ssh with serial 9600N81 and you're even more secure.
And need a *terminal* that fits in your pocket. I'm really surprised that
no-one has made that before.

Regards,
--
*Art
Anonymous
April 30, 2004 5:05:52 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

ASB> I'm with Andy H. on this one.

Doh! I meant Adam Helberg. Sorry Adam.
Anonymous
April 30, 2004 6:07:20 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 13:04:48 +0100, Andy Mulhearn wrote:

> On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 06:48:46 +0100, Adam Helberg wrote (in article
> <2Nlkc.14965$eZ5.9960@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>):[snipped]
>
>> The personal computer will not be replaced by the PDA because the gap
>> between the
>> capabilities will remain. The PDA is becoming more powerful but so is
>> the desktop and the
>> laptop. They all have their place.
>
> Personally I think that's a pretty bold statement and one that I think
> the next decade will prove completely wrong (how's that for a bold
> statement as well).

I think the OP is right that they all have their place, though I think
it's for "human" reasons, not simply technical capability.

> Once the power problem has been solved,

Now *that's* the bold statement. If Moore's law keeps going, and signs are
that there's mileage in it yet, then PDA size processors and memory will
be more than powerful enough. Powering these electronics is another matter
altogether. Despite all the investment that's been poured into battery
technology, advances in capacity move at a rate that is far behind the
demand for more power. It's far from clear that the power problem is
solvable at all in the near term time frame - fuel cells hold the most
potential, but there's still a lot of work to be done before you get PDA
sized ones that are reliable, and easily recharge/refuelable. I saw an
interview with a mobile phone company exec who was bemoaning the fact that
the next gen phones they wanted to build were impossible - they couldn't
reconcile the desired feature set with power availability. He was saying
the market is basically going to be unable to add some features (mostly
WiFi type stuff) to the devices, unless there are some big leaps in power
technology.

> and that to me is the really big
> problem, I think we'll see convergence of personal devices. In ten years
> the desktop and laptop will be gone for all but specialist uses and
> smaller connected devices will be the norm.

There I disagree. I could replace my desktop now with a laptop that's more
powerful than it, but I wouldn't want to. I *want* a full size keyboard,
and a large screen. Shrinking the devices is all very well, but ergonomics
will rule at some point - people need to be comfortable using these
things.

> No idea what they'll look like but I seriously doubt I'd be typing this
> message on anything that looks like an iBook in 2014.

Despite all the advances in technology, a desktop computer looks much the
same now as it did in 1984. What's inside the box has changed beyond all
recognition, but the physical dimensions on the machine are broadly the
same now as they were then, as people are still about the same size. Why
will the next 10 years be so different?

What would be nice would something pocket size, that makes use of flexible
materials to unfold to a 14" screen when you're at a desk, or is usable at
pocket size when you're on the move. That way you could gain portability
without losing ergonomics. The problems to be solved before we get that
sort of device are more than just packing more transistors onto a chip
though, so I'm not sure it'll happen by 2014. Here's hoping though....

Mike.
Anonymous
April 30, 2004 6:10:42 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Thu, 29 Apr 2004 20:55:03 +0000, piesse wrote:

> ECM wrote:
>> My Zire 71 has more
>> memory and a faster processor (and better programs!) than the old
>> Pentium 75 I wrote my thesis on just 10 years ago! PDA CPU's are going
>
> uhm. Your old pentium 75 had a better keyboard, a much larger screen, and
> much more storage memory than your zire. I won't think of writing a thesis
> on a zire....

Indeed. A modern PDA will often have more memory that my old 486 (circa
1991), more storage with a decent SD/CF card, a faster CPU, and a
comparable screen res (some of them do 640x480). Still, I was happy
writing college work on my 486. The key factors are screen/keyboard/chair.
That's why desktops aren't going away any time soon.

Mike.
Anonymous
April 30, 2004 6:45:17 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

ECM wrote:
> Anyways, I know I'm preaching to the converted in this forum, but I'm
> just fishing for some thoughts from the community - what do YOU think?

I think that you have to cut through the hype. I've been reading about
this "convergence" so much lately that I'm becoming sceptical. Phone
companies are, of course, eager to sell us on SmartPhones. While the
sales figures look impressive at first sight I wonder if people are just
upgrading their phone for the "coolness factor" or if they really make
use of the SmartPhone-specific functions. (My own mobile is five years
old, its battery life is still excellent and I see no reason to upgrade
at all.)

Personally, I think a good phone needs to be small to be pocketable,
while a PDA needs to be a bit larger than a phone to be really useful.
In other words: for me a good phone will be too small to be used
effectively as a PDA. That all said, a modern phone (SmartPhone or not)
functions well enough for basic PIM functionality, which is the only
type of functionality that most users really need.

Just my 0.02 euro.


Regards
-Laurens
Anonymous
April 30, 2004 8:27:13 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

"Andy Mulhearn" <unxmully@netcomuk.co.uk> wrote in message
news:c6tfcv$g2vb5$1@ID-71777.news.uni-berlin.de...
> On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 06:48:46 +0100, Adam Helberg wrote
> (in article <2Nlkc.14965$eZ5.9960@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>):
>
> [snipped]
>
> > The personal computer will not be replaced by the PDA because the gap
> > between the
> > capabilities will remain. The PDA is becoming more powerful but so is the
> > desktop and the
> > laptop. They all have their place.
> >
>
>
> Personally I think that's a pretty bold statement and one that I think the
> next decade will prove completely wrong (how's that for a bold statement as
> well).
>
> Once the power problem has been solved, and that to me is the really big
> problem, I think we'll see convergence of personal devices. In ten years the
> desktop and laptop will be gone for all but specialist uses and smaller
> connected devices will be the norm.
>
> No idea what they'll look like but I seriously doubt I'd be typing this
> message on anything that looks like an iBook in 2014.
>
> Andy

People have been predicting the end of the desktop, with the laptop becoming more
powerful, for years and it just has not happened. There is also a gap between these two
and you just cannot undo the size difference with technology, at least not in the
conceivable future. Even just the mechanical differences give the laptop a disadvantage
(screen size, I/O access etc)

Adam
April 30, 2004 8:32:53 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On 30 Apr 2004 07:57:58 -0700, ECM wrote:

> I have a 512 MB (along with a 256 and 64 MB) SD card; the access speed
> for the card, I believe, is the same PIO4-mode speeds as the IDE drive
> in that old deskchunk.

Card access speeds can be deceptive. The rated speeds are
moderately indicative of the performance you'll see for sequential
tasks such as copying files, but Flash RAM completely bogs down when
doing the random I/O more typically used in applications. There was
a discussion of this recently in another NG concerning the extremely
poor performance of a 256MB Sandisk Mini Cruzer USB2 Flash Drive:
("It will run.... but is dog slow").
Message-ID: <updo70dd88g7auphnjjup0eqs07cdfpgpi@4ax.com>

According to Sandisk, their Cruzer Titanium Flash Drive is quite a
bit faster:
> • Fast read speeds —Min 15MB/sec sequential Read
> • Fast write speeds —Min 13MB/sec sequential Write
but I suspect that it too will run some (not all) app's very slowly,
though not so slowly that I would refuse to accept one as a gift. :) 
Anonymous
April 30, 2004 8:37:03 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 10:40:30 -0400, Arthur Hagen wrote:

> Andy Ball <ball@not.valid> wrote:
>
>> I'm with Andy H. on this one. Because what I'm looking for in a palmtop
>> is atypical (e.g. an 80-column screen for use as an SSH terminal) at
>> least one friend laughs, saying "You don't want a palmtop, you want a
>> laptop that fits in your pocket!".
>
> Substitute ssh with serial 9600N81 and you're even more secure.

Yes, but it kind of requires you to be physically next to the machine
you're connecting to, which makes the exercise a waste of time.

For decent ssh access from a palmtop, you can't do much better than a
Zaurus. The Palm ssh programs work, but they're suitable for emergency use
only IMO, not serious admin work.

Mike.
Anonymous
April 30, 2004 8:54:10 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

While intrepidly exploring comp.sys.palmtops.pilot, Adam Helberg
rolled initiative and posted the following:

>
> "Andy Mulhearn" <unxmully@netcomuk.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:c6tfcv$g2vb5$1@ID-71777.news.uni-berlin.de...
>> On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 06:48:46 +0100, Adam Helberg wrote
>> (in article
>> <2Nlkc.14965$eZ5.9960@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>):
>>
>> [snipped]
>>
>> > The personal computer will not be replaced by the PDA because
>> > the gap between the
>> > capabilities will remain. The PDA is becoming more powerful
>> > but so is the desktop and the
>> > laptop. They all have their place.
>> >
>>
>>
>> Personally I think that's a pretty bold statement and one that
>> I think the next decade will prove completely wrong (how's that
>> for a bold statement as well).
>>
>> Once the power problem has been solved, and that to me is the
>> really big problem, I think we'll see convergence of personal
>> devices. In ten years the desktop and laptop will be gone for
>> all but specialist uses and smaller connected devices will be
>> the norm.
>>
>> No idea what they'll look like but I seriously doubt I'd be
>> typing this message on anything that looks like an iBook in
>> 2014.
>>
>> Andy
>
> People have been predicting the end of the desktop, with the
> laptop becoming more powerful, for years and it just has not
> happened. There is also a gap between these two and you just
> cannot undo the size difference with technology, at least not in
> the conceivable future. Even just the mechanical differences
> give the laptop a disadvantage (screen size, I/O access etc)

But it IS happening, albeit slowly. Laptops are expected to be 50%
of all new computer sales in the U.S. and 40% of all sales
worldwide by 2007.

And the "Gap" is not that important for the average user.
Considering that the vast majority of users don't play high-end
games, do high-res graphic work, or edit videos, the difference
between the two is not that great.

Most of the other graduate students I've spoken with in my
department have already or plan to replace their desktop with a
laptop the next time they buy a computer.

It'll likely happen. But it'll also likely result in the sale of a
lot of docking stations, monitors and standard keyboards.

--
Derek

Until you spread your wings, you'll have no idea how far you can
walk.
April 30, 2004 9:15:17 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Derek <news@gwinn.us> wrote in message news:<Xns94DB4F73EF708dagwinn@130.133.1.4>...
> While intrepidly exploring comp.sys.palmtops.pilot, Andy Mulhearn
> rolled initiative and posted the following:
>
> > Once the power problem has been solved, and that to me is the
> > really big problem, I think we'll see convergence of personal
> > devices. In ten years the desktop and laptop will be gone for
> > all but specialist uses and smaller connected devices will be
> > the norm.
> >
> > No idea what they'll look like but I seriously doubt I'd be
> > typing this message on anything that looks like an iBook in
> > 2014.
>
> I don't know about that. I think that in the next 10 years, the
> traditional "Desktop" will be replaced for all but "power users and
> gamers" and everyone else will move to a laptop.
>
> It's possible that in 2014 a laptop chassis will have a removable
> PDA unit, but I'm not interested. Most of the data I have on my
> desktop (or laptop) is NOT stuff I want to be carrying around with
> me.

Actually, I think that the day will come that "laptops" and "PDAs"
will be indistinguishable. I have a Tablet PC for work, and I get a
lot of snide comments about my "PDA on steroids". At first I thought,
"very funny", but I'm starting to think about it - it really is just a
glorified PDA with more storage, a larger screen, and better
handwriting recognition. Some of the tablet PC's are using VIA C3
processors, with the processing power of a 266-333MHz Celeron; I'll
bet that PDAs will have a faster processor within 2-3 years.

IMHO, in a few years, the only difference between a PDA and a laptop
will be the operating system....

Peace!
ECM
Anonymous
April 30, 2004 9:17:34 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 13:48:33 +0100, Derek wrote
(in article <Xns94DB4F73EF708dagwinn@130.133.1.4>):

> While intrepidly exploring comp.sys.palmtops.pilot, Andy Mulhearn
> rolled initiative and posted the following:
>
>> Once the power problem has been solved, and that to me is the
>> really big problem, I think we'll see convergence of personal
>> devices. In ten years the desktop and laptop will be gone for
>> all but specialist uses and smaller connected devices will be
>> the norm.
>>
>> No idea what they'll look like but I seriously doubt I'd be
>> typing this message on anything that looks like an iBook in
>> 2014.
>
> I don't know about that. I think that in the next 10 years, the
> traditional "Desktop" will be replaced for all but "power users and
> gamers" and everyone else will move to a laptop.

Well we can place a long-term bet on that if you like :) )

>
> It's possible that in 2014 a laptop chassis will have a removable
> PDA unit, but I'm not interested. Most of the data I have on my
> desktop (or laptop) is NOT stuff I want to be carrying around with
> me.
>
>

Hmmm, well like I already have with my .Mac account you would backup all of
your data to some big server somewhere.

Alternatively your "PDA" could be just the interface which communicates
wirelessly with the server on which all of your data and big applications
reside.

Or you have a hybrid form where some data is kept local to your device and
the secure stuff accessed remotely.

Andy
Anonymous
April 30, 2004 9:17:35 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

While intrepidly exploring comp.sys.palmtops.pilot, Andy Mulhearn
rolled initiative and posted the following:

> On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 13:48:33 +0100, Derek wrote
> (in article <Xns94DB4F73EF708dagwinn@130.133.1.4>):
>
>> While intrepidly exploring comp.sys.palmtops.pilot, Andy
>> Mulhearn rolled initiative and posted the following:
>>
>>> Once the power problem has been solved, and that to me is the
>>> really big problem, I think we'll see convergence of personal
>>> devices. In ten years the desktop and laptop will be gone for
>>> all but specialist uses and smaller connected devices will be
>>> the norm.
>>>
>>> No idea what they'll look like but I seriously doubt I'd be
>>> typing this message on anything that looks like an iBook in
>>> 2014.
>>
>> I don't know about that. I think that in the next 10 years, the
>> traditional "Desktop" will be replaced for all but "power users
>> and gamers" and everyone else will move to a laptop.
>
> Well we can place a long-term bet on that if you like :) )

Well, in 10 years, I might actually have the money to lose. ;) 

>> It's possible that in 2014 a laptop chassis will have a
>> removable PDA unit, but I'm not interested. Most of the data I
>> have on my desktop (or laptop) is NOT stuff I want to be
>> carrying around with me.
>
> Hmmm, well like I already have with my .Mac account you would
> backup all of your data to some big server somewhere.

Possibly. But the issue isn't one of backup. It's security. I've
got some potentially risky data on my desktop from a research
project on which I work. I wouldn't want that in my PDA, even
though I've never lost mine.

Granted, a properly setup system would have that data on a
removable hard drive that the PDA would access as soon as it's
dropped in the cradle.


> Alternatively your "PDA" could be just the interface which
> communicates wirelessly with the server on which all of your
> data and big applications reside.

Or simply connect upon being dropped in the cradle.

A cradle that works as a docking port would have immediate
connectivity to the monitor, keyboard and mouse, as well as any
network connections, printers, or external harddrives.

(I've got my own issues with the current persnicketyness of
wireless connections and my doubts about whether the industry will
"fix" them in the next 10 years or simply stick with the old
reliable cables.)


> Or you have a hybrid form where some data is kept local to your
> device and the secure stuff accessed remotely.

Or off an external drive, as suggested above.


--
Derek

Until you spread your wings, you'll have no idea how far you can
walk.
Anonymous
April 30, 2004 9:36:59 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 14:07:20 +0100, Mike Brodbelt wrote
(in article <pan.2004.04.30.13.07.20.764701@_nospam_coruscant.demon.co.uk>):

> On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 13:04:48 +0100, Andy Mulhearn wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 06:48:46 +0100, Adam Helberg wrote (in article
>> <2Nlkc.14965$eZ5.9960@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>):[snipped]
>>
>>> The personal computer will not be replaced by the PDA because the gap
>>> between the
>>> capabilities will remain. The PDA is becoming more powerful but so is
>>> the desktop and the
>>> laptop. They all have their place.
>>
>> Personally I think that's a pretty bold statement and one that I think
>> the next decade will prove completely wrong (how's that for a bold
>> statement as well).
>
> I think the OP is right that they all have their place, though I think
> it's for "human" reasons, not simply technical capability.

I think those reasons will be eroded by ease of use and capabilities. There
will be people who stick with traditional approaches but then there are
people still buying Acorn computers and running OpenVMS.

Not saying that's bad or trying to be rude to anyone, there will always be
people who stick with what they like.

>
>> Once the power problem has been solved,
>
> Now *that's* the bold statement. If Moore's law keeps going, and signs are
> that there's mileage in it yet, then PDA size processors and memory will
> be more than powerful enough. Powering these electronics is another matter
> altogether.

I misrepresented my point, which is the same as yours. CPU/RAM/Storage is
expanding and getting faster, faster than battery technology can keep up. I
want a T3 that I can go four months without charging. Not four hours.

That's the power we need.\

> Despite all the investment that's been poured into battery
> technology, advances in capacity move at a rate that is far behind the
> demand for more power. It's far from clear that the power problem is
> solvable at all in the near term time frame - fuel cells hold the most
> potential, but there's still a lot of work to be done before you get PDA
> sized ones that are reliable, and easily recharge/refuelable. I saw an
> interview with a mobile phone company exec who was bemoaning the fact that
> the next gen phones they wanted to build were impossible - they couldn't
> reconcile the desired feature set with power availability. He was saying
> the market is basically going to be unable to add some features (mostly
> WiFi type stuff) to the devices, unless there are some big leaps in power
> technology.

As I said, my point exactly. The rest of the equation is easier to see, where
you get the power from - apart from a long cord from a plug in your home -
is a harder problem to see a solution for.

>
>> and that to me is the really big
>> problem, I think we'll see convergence of personal devices. In ten years
>> the desktop and laptop will be gone for all but specialist uses and
>> smaller connected devices will be the norm.
>
> There I disagree. I could replace my desktop now with a laptop that's more
> powerful than it, but I wouldn't want to. I *want* a full size keyboard,
> and a large screen. Shrinking the devices is all very well, but ergonomics
> will rule at some point - people need to be comfortable using these
> things.


Well always assuming that the input and output devices don't change. Who says
a keyboard is the only way to get data into and out of a device? If it has
the power and the longevity to run voice recognition software and do sensible
speech synthesis there are a number of problems solved.

Example, I want to know what time the next train is from London to my home
town Woolwich. I currently look this up using a browser, screen, mouse and
keyboard but all I'm doing is saying "Ask Railtrack what is the time of the
next train to Woolwich from Cannon Street".

Wouldn't need a keyboard or screen for that.

>
>> No idea what they'll look like but I seriously doubt I'd be typing this
>> message on anything that looks like an iBook in 2014.
>
> Despite all the advances in technology, a desktop computer looks much the
> same now as it did in 1984. What's inside the box has changed beyond all
> recognition, but the physical dimensions on the machine are broadly the
> same now as they were then, as people are still about the same size. Why
> will the next 10 years be so different?

Because if you look at the rate of change it's accelerating. Storage, memory
and CPU are all getting bigger and faster respectively. At the same time,
peripherals such as WIFI gear are getting, are getting smaller.

Connectivity is getting better/faster - well in Japan it is. ADSL averaging
26Mb/s to 80% of the population -
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3278375.stm.

>
> What would be nice would something pocket size, that makes use of flexible
> materials to unfold to a 14" screen when you're at a desk, or is usable at
> pocket size when you're on the move. That way you could gain portability
> without losing ergonomics. The problems to be solved before we get that
> sort of device are more than just packing more transistors onto a chip
> though, so I'm not sure it'll happen by 2014. Here's hoping though....

Or a device with a small-ish screen for normal use - perhaps the size of a
Newton but without the weight penalty - and a Holographic screen for bigger
things.

Come on, think big :) )

Andy
Anonymous
April 30, 2004 9:43:22 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 15:37:54 +0100, Arthur Hagen wrote
(in article <pv4am1-c3a.ln1@kether.broomstick.com>):

> Andy Mulhearn <unxmully@netcomuk.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Once the power problem has been solved, and that to me is the really
>> big problem, I think we'll see convergence of personal devices.
>
> Short of someone discovering some safe and as of yet unknown or
> uncontrollable chemical reactions, don't count on battery technology to
> advance THAT much. Fuel cells aren't all they're cranked up to be -- the
> only big savings are likely to be in manufacturing costs and recycling woes.
> Then we're down to the other side of the equation -- power consumption.
> This *will* rise, despite more efficient parts eventually becoming a
> priority. Look at laptops -- even though the new CPU's and other components
> are designed more energy-efficient than before, they're overtaken by Moore's
> law, and laws of nature. If you increase the clock speed by 4x while at the
> same time decreasing the energy use to half as much per cycle, you'll double
> the overall energy consumption. That's why laptops today have fans, and
> have been renamed notebooks due to liability claims after lap burns.

Well my iBook doesn't have a fan, neither does the old 505 my son uses. It's
not mandatory.

But you're right, the power is the problem.

>
> Only if we consumers stop demanding "more, more!" can the devices get a
> chance to catch up on the power side too. And yes, that will happen, as
> surely as people have stopped demanding that their TV set also plays videos,
> act as a stereo, and has a built-in lamp. Sooner or later, consumers will
> want devices that do one job, but one job well, instead of the Swiss Army
> Knife approach we now see, and which is common to any new technology.
>

I disagree on that one, a centralised media store that you can carry around
or stream the media off is the way to go.

Andy
Anonymous
April 30, 2004 10:26:43 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Hello,

ECM> As for the monitor, that's up for debate; I lost the cyan
> electron gun 3 months after I bought it, about 2 days after the
> 90 day warrantee expired. I finished my thesis in deep purple
> and red...

Sounds like you lost the green gun (there is no cyan gun ;-)

- Andy Ball
April 30, 2004 10:26:44 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Andy Ball <ball@not.valid> wrote in message news:<DTwkc.521$Hs1.5@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
> Hello,
>
> ECM> As for the monitor, that's up for debate; I lost the cyan
> > electron gun 3 months after I bought it, about 2 days after the
> > 90 day warrantee expired. I finished my thesis in deep purple
> > and red...
>
> Sounds like you lost the green gun (there is no cyan gun ;-)
>
> - Andy Ball

Yep, you're right - I've had my head in photography all day. Sorry.

ECM
Anonymous
April 30, 2004 10:39:10 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Mike Brodbelt <mike@_nospam_coruscant.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 10:40:30 -0400, Arthur Hagen wrote:
>
>> Andy Ball <ball@not.valid> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm with Andy H. on this one. Because what I'm looking for in a
>>> palmtop is atypical (e.g. an 80-column screen for use as an SSH
>>> terminal) at least one friend laughs, saying "You don't want a
>>> palmtop, you want a laptop that fits in your pocket!".
>>
>> Substitute ssh with serial 9600N81 and you're even more secure.
>
> Yes, but it kind of requires you to be physically next to the machine
> you're connecting to, which makes the exercise a waste of time.

Not really. I've set up several Unix (SGI and Sun) boxes with my old Palm
Vx over serial. It beat having to lug around a laptop, especially when the
boxes are in hard to reach places with no dedicated console nearby (or with
long enough cables).

> For decent ssh access from a palmtop, you can't do much better than a
> Zaurus. The Palm ssh programs work, but they're suitable for
> emergency use only IMO, not serious admin work.

TuSSH on the UX50 isn't too bad. It's 480 pixels wide, so you get 80 width
with the font still readable, and it has an OK keyboard. The main gripe is
that there's no pipe ("|") on the keyboard, but two hyphens ("-"). One of
them must have fallen over during transport from Japan.
TuSSH (thankfully) has mapped the pipe to a menu choice, but that's still a
bit plundersome.
Apart from that, it's really usable -- especially since the UX50 has WiFi
too. One day I was sick, I downloaded, reconfigured, compiled and installed
a new kernel on one of my Linux boxes from bed, using the UX50, and read my
mail and news (pine). Now all we need is an X server for PalmOS.

Regards,
--
*Art
Anonymous
April 30, 2004 10:41:45 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Hello,

AH> Substitute ssh with serial 9600N81 and you're even
> more secure.

Probably not for the applications that I had in mind: for me
this is mostly about remote access to some unix machines
that I look after (and also to one that I use for email). I
don't know that circuit-switched data calls are encrypted by
wireless carriers. Not only that, they'd want to charge me
by the minute too ;-)

MB> For decent ssh access from a palmtop, you can't do
> much better than a Zaurus. The Palm ssh programs work,
> but they're suitable for emergency use only IMO, not
> serious admin work.

Is there a Zaurus with a 480x200 (or larger) screen in
landscape orientation? 640 pixels across would give me a
more useable font, but 480 might do at a push (it's hard to
tell without seeing it).

- Andy Ball
Anonymous
April 30, 2004 10:51:38 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Hello Andy,

AM> Who says a keyboard is the only way to get data into and out of
> a device?

It's not the only way, but it is a familiar, accurate and fast way to
get data into a device (I s'pose the CapsLock LED counts as output ;-)

AM> If it has the power and the longevity to run voice recognition
> software and do sensible speech synthesis there are a number of
> problems solved.

I've yet to meet voice recognition software that could cope with my
accent. I'm probably not alone in that. Perhaps that'll come with
time, but I would much rather type than talk to a PDA. Despite all the
jokes, the Apple Newton did a very good job of recognising my cursive
handwriting. I imagine that'll be ready before speech -> text.

AM> Example, I want to know what time the next train is from London
> to my home town Woolwich. ...saying "Ask Railtrack what is the
> time of the next train to Woolwich from Cannon Street".

I think that one was cancelled due to the wrong kind of leaves on the
line. ;-)

- Andy Ball
Anonymous
May 1, 2004 12:05:59 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

"Derek" <news@gwinn.us> wrote in message news:Xns94DB791A8728Fdagwinn@130.133.1.4...
> While intrepidly exploring comp.sys.palmtops.pilot, Adam Helberg
> rolled initiative and posted the following:
>
> >
> > "Andy Mulhearn" <unxmully@netcomuk.co.uk> wrote in message
> > news:c6tfcv$g2vb5$1@ID-71777.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >> On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 06:48:46 +0100, Adam Helberg wrote
> >> (in article
> >> <2Nlkc.14965$eZ5.9960@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>):
> >>
> >> [snipped]
> >>
> >> > The personal computer will not be replaced by the PDA because
> >> > the gap between the
> >> > capabilities will remain. The PDA is becoming more powerful
> >> > but so is the desktop and the
> >> > laptop. They all have their place.
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Personally I think that's a pretty bold statement and one that
> >> I think the next decade will prove completely wrong (how's that
> >> for a bold statement as well).
> >>
> >> Once the power problem has been solved, and that to me is the
> >> really big problem, I think we'll see convergence of personal
> >> devices. In ten years the desktop and laptop will be gone for
> >> all but specialist uses and smaller connected devices will be
> >> the norm.
> >>
> >> No idea what they'll look like but I seriously doubt I'd be
> >> typing this message on anything that looks like an iBook in
> >> 2014.
> >>
> >> Andy
> >
> > People have been predicting the end of the desktop, with the
> > laptop becoming more powerful, for years and it just has not
> > happened. There is also a gap between these two and you just
> > cannot undo the size difference with technology, at least not in
> > the conceivable future. Even just the mechanical differences
> > give the laptop a disadvantage (screen size, I/O access etc)
>
> But it IS happening, albeit slowly. Laptops are expected to be 50%
> of all new computer sales in the U.S. and 40% of all sales
> worldwide by 2007.
>
> And the "Gap" is not that important for the average user.
> Considering that the vast majority of users don't play high-end
> games, do high-res graphic work, or edit videos, the difference
> between the two is not that great.
>
> Most of the other graduate students I've spoken with in my
> department have already or plan to replace their desktop with a
> laptop the next time they buy a computer.
>
> It'll likely happen. But it'll also likely result in the sale of a
> lot of docking stations, monitors and standard keyboards.
>
> --
> Derek
>
> Until you spread your wings, you'll have no idea how far you can
> walk.

Graduate students and university students have special needs--namely portability. When you
have a house the issue of portability is not as important.

Adam
Anonymous
May 1, 2004 12:15:10 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

While intrepidly exploring comp.sys.palmtops.pilot, Adam Helberg
rolled initiative and posted the following:

>
> "Derek" <news@gwinn.us> wrote in message
> news:Xns94DB791A8728Fdagwinn@130.133.1.4...
>> While intrepidly exploring comp.sys.palmtops.pilot, Adam
>> Helberg rolled initiative and posted the following:
>>
>> >
>> > "Andy Mulhearn" <unxmully@netcomuk.co.uk> wrote in message
>> > news:c6tfcv$g2vb5$1@ID-71777.news.uni-berlin.de...
>> >> On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 06:48:46 +0100, Adam Helberg wrote
>> >> (in article
>> >> <2Nlkc.14965$eZ5.9960@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>):
>> >>
>> >> [snipped]
>> >>
>> >> > The personal computer will not be replaced by the PDA
>> >> > because the gap between the
>> >> > capabilities will remain. The PDA is becoming more
>> >> > powerful but so is the desktop and the
>> >> > laptop. They all have their place.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Personally I think that's a pretty bold statement and one
>> >> that I think the next decade will prove completely wrong
>> >> (how's that for a bold statement as well).
>> >>
>> >> Once the power problem has been solved, and that to me is
>> >> the really big problem, I think we'll see convergence of
>> >> personal devices. In ten years the desktop and laptop will
>> >> be gone for all but specialist uses and smaller connected
>> >> devices will be the norm.
>> >>
>> >> No idea what they'll look like but I seriously doubt I'd be
>> >> typing this message on anything that looks like an iBook in
>> >> 2014.
>> >>
>> >> Andy
>> >
>> > People have been predicting the end of the desktop, with the
>> > laptop becoming more powerful, for years and it just has not
>> > happened. There is also a gap between these two and you just
>> > cannot undo the size difference with technology, at least not
>> > in the conceivable future. Even just the mechanical
>> > differences give the laptop a disadvantage (screen size, I/O
>> > access etc)
>>
>> But it IS happening, albeit slowly. Laptops are expected to be
>> 50% of all new computer sales in the U.S. and 40% of all sales
>> worldwide by 2007.
>>
>> And the "Gap" is not that important for the average user.
>> Considering that the vast majority of users don't play high-end
>> games, do high-res graphic work, or edit videos, the difference
>> between the two is not that great.
>>
>> Most of the other graduate students I've spoken with in my
>> department have already or plan to replace their desktop with a
>> laptop the next time they buy a computer.
>>
>> It'll likely happen. But it'll also likely result in the sale
>> of a lot of docking stations, monitors and standard keyboards.
>
> Graduate students and university students have special
> needs--namely portability. When you have a house the issue of
> portability is not as important.

Very true. However, I can list as many people I know who AREN'T
graduate students who have purchased or have told me that their
next purchase will be a laptop.

For many, a laptop is the Windows equivalent of an iMac.

--
Derek

In the battle between you and the world, bet on the world.
Anonymous
May 1, 2004 12:54:35 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 17:38:23 +0100, Derek wrote
(in article <Xns94DB766DB9D39dagwinn@130.133.1.4>):

> While intrepidly exploring comp.sys.palmtops.pilot, Andy Mulhearn
> rolled initiative and posted the following:
>
>> On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 13:48:33 +0100, Derek wrote
>> (in article <Xns94DB4F73EF708dagwinn@130.133.1.4>):
>>
>>> While intrepidly exploring comp.sys.palmtops.pilot, Andy
>>> Mulhearn rolled initiative and posted the following:
>>>
>>>> Once the power problem has been solved, and that to me is the
>>>> really big problem, I think we'll see convergence of personal
>>>> devices. In ten years the desktop and laptop will be gone for
>>>> all but specialist uses and smaller connected devices will be
>>>> the norm.
>>>>
>>>> No idea what they'll look like but I seriously doubt I'd be
>>>> typing this message on anything that looks like an iBook in
>>>> 2014.
>>>
>>> I don't know about that. I think that in the next 10 years, the
>>> traditional "Desktop" will be replaced for all but "power users
>>> and gamers" and everyone else will move to a laptop.
>>
>> Well we can place a long-term bet on that if you like :) )
>
> Well, in 10 years, I might actually have the money to lose. ;) 


I'll put £1 away now, in 10 years the interest should cover a reasonable bet.

>
>>> It's possible that in 2014 a laptop chassis will have a
>>> removable PDA unit, but I'm not interested. Most of the data I
>>> have on my desktop (or laptop) is NOT stuff I want to be
>>> carrying around with me.
>>
>> Hmmm, well like I already have with my .Mac account you would
>> backup all of your data to some big server somewhere.
>
> Possibly. But the issue isn't one of backup. It's security. I've
> got some potentially risky data on my desktop from a research
> project on which I work. I wouldn't want that in my PDA, even
> though I've never lost mine.

Encryption? Or keep the data remote with secured wireless access.

>
> Granted, a properly setup system would have that data on a
> removable hard drive that the PDA would access as soon as it's
> dropped in the cradle.

That should be fine, but how secure is your desktop? Not wishing to fork the
discussion but if it's not locked in a secured room, is it really that safe?

>
>
>> Alternatively your "PDA" could be just the interface which
>> communicates wirelessly with the server on which all of your
>> data and big applications reside.
>
> Or simply connect upon being dropped in the cradle.

True, if you can synch more data than we currently get with Hotsync or
activeshite.

>
> A cradle that works as a docking port would have immediate
> connectivity to the monitor, keyboard and mouse, as well as any
> network connections, printers, or external harddrives.
>

Sort of like you get with a shrunk laptop but with added syncronisation of
data to ensure your mobile and server side copies are kept up to date.

> (I've got my own issues with the current persnicketyness of
> wireless connections and my doubts about whether the industry will
> "fix" them in the next 10 years or simply stick with the old
> reliable cables.)

Maybe a bit hard to run a cable to your local coffee shop, well to mine
anyway. I think wireless working well is really part of my scenario.

>
>
>> Or you have a hybrid form where some data is kept local to your
>> device and the secure stuff accessed remotely.
>
> Or off an external drive, as suggested above.
>

I think I prefer something a bit more remote.

Andy
Anonymous
May 1, 2004 12:54:36 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

While intrepidly exploring comp.sys.palmtops.pilot, Andy Mulhearn
rolled initiative and posted the following:

> On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 17:38:23 +0100, Derek wrote
> (in article <Xns94DB766DB9D39dagwinn@130.133.1.4>):
>
>> While intrepidly exploring comp.sys.palmtops.pilot, Andy
>> Mulhearn rolled initiative and posted the following:
>>
>>> On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 13:48:33 +0100, Derek wrote
>>> (in article <Xns94DB4F73EF708dagwinn@130.133.1.4>):
>>>
>>>> While intrepidly exploring comp.sys.palmtops.pilot, Andy
>>>> Mulhearn rolled initiative and posted the following:
>>>>
>>>>> Once the power problem has been solved, and that to me is
>>>>> the really big problem, I think we'll see convergence of
>>>>> personal devices. In ten years the desktop and laptop will
>>>>> be gone for all but specialist uses and smaller connected
>>>>> devices will be the norm.
>>>>>
>>>>> No idea what they'll look like but I seriously doubt I'd be
>>>>> typing this message on anything that looks like an iBook in
>>>>> 2014.
>>>>
>>>> I don't know about that. I think that in the next 10 years,
>>>> the traditional "Desktop" will be replaced for all but "power
>>>> users and gamers" and everyone else will move to a laptop.
>>>
>>> Well we can place a long-term bet on that if you like :) )
>>
>> Well, in 10 years, I might actually have the money to lose. ;) 
>
>
> I'll put £1 away now, in 10 years the interest should cover a
> reasonable bet.

Let's see...at 1% interest in a savings account in the U.S. if
you're lucky...

>>>> It's possible that in 2014 a laptop chassis will have a
>>>> removable PDA unit, but I'm not interested. Most of the data
>>>> I have on my desktop (or laptop) is NOT stuff I want to be
>>>> carrying around with me.
>>>
>>> Hmmm, well like I already have with my .Mac account you would
>>> backup all of your data to some big server somewhere.
>>
>> Possibly. But the issue isn't one of backup. It's security.
>> I've got some potentially risky data on my desktop from a
>> research project on which I work. I wouldn't want that in my
>> PDA, even though I've never lost mine.
>
> Encryption? Or keep the data remote with secured wireless
> access.

But the only place I use it is at my desk, hence the reason I don't
even need it with me.

>> Granted, a properly setup system would have that data on a
>> removable hard drive that the PDA would access as soon as it's
>> dropped in the cradle.
>
> That should be fine, but how secure is your desktop? Not wishing
> to fork the discussion but if it's not locked in a secured room,
> is it really that safe?

If you want to pick nits, no location is 100% safe. But in the
basement of my house or on the server in a locked room on campus is
much safer than galavanting around town in my pocket.


>>> Alternatively your "PDA" could be just the interface which
>>> communicates wirelessly with the server on which all of your
>>> data and big applications reside.
>>
>> Or simply connect upon being dropped in the cradle.
>
> True, if you can synch more data than we currently get with
> Hotsync or activeshite.

I think you missed the idea. I was suggesting that the data, which
does not need to travel with me, would reside on an external drive.
When I got back and dropped the handheld in the cradle, I'd have
access to the drive and the data. No syncing of data would be
necessary.

>> A cradle that works as a docking port would have immediate
>> connectivity to the monitor, keyboard and mouse, as well as any
>> network connections, printers, or external harddrives.
>>
>
> Sort of like you get with a shrunk laptop but with added
> syncronisation of data to ensure your mobile and server side
> copies are kept up to date.

Not really, because the stuff on the server would be the stuff I
don't want to take with me.


As for the "Shrunk laptop" idea... http://www.oqo.com/

>> (I've got my own issues with the current persnicketyness of
>> wireless connections and my doubts about whether the industry
>> will "fix" them in the next 10 years or simply stick with the
>> old reliable cables.)
>
> Maybe a bit hard to run a cable to your local coffee shop, well
> to mine anyway. I think wireless working well is really part of
> my scenario.

Networking, yes. But peripherals seem to be a-whole-nother matter.

>>> Or you have a hybrid form where some data is kept local to
>>> your device and the secure stuff accessed remotely.
>>
>> Or off an external drive, as suggested above.
>>
>
> I think I prefer something a bit more remote.

If I would be working with the data remotely, sure. But if I'm
working with it only at my desk - such as graphic work - then I'm
not going to need it remotely and it can sit on the external drive
at my desk.

--
Derek

In the battle between you and the world, bet on the world.
Anonymous
May 1, 2004 1:44:09 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 14:03:17 +0100, Andy Ball wrote
(in article <p8skc.93$Hs1.0@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>):

>
> Hello,
>
> AH> ...The PDA is becoming more powerful but so is the
> > desktop and the laptop. They all have their place.
>
> AM> Personally I think that's a pretty bold statement and
> > one that I think the next decade will prove completely
> > wrong (how's that for a bold statement as well).
>
> I'm with Andy H. on this one. Because what I'm looking for
> in a palmtop is atypical (e.g. an 80-column screen for use
> as an SSH terminal) at least one friend laughs, saying "You
> don't want a palmtop, you want a laptop that fits in your
> pocket!". A palmtop like that would meet about 80% of my
> mobile needs (Vs. about 60% if I ditch a few "requirements"
> and pick up a Zire 21). It would be great to get away from
> carting a heavy, bulky laptop/notebook computer every day as
> I do now, but realistically I can see that there are
> applications where a larger screen and keyboard are needed
> (even if the processing power were equivalent).

I think that would place you in a power user class, people for whom there is
no alternative to the command line and a shell because they support or use
applications that only work that way. But that very much makes you not one
of the man-in-the-street users.

>
> Desktop computers are a pet peeve of mine. I don't object
> to them in principal, but the realisation seems to leave a
> lot to be desired. I predict that your average desktop
> computer will continue to be a hideous, bulky energy-hog
> with plenty of unnecessary (all-to-often moving) parts. This
> prediction is based on the fact that there has been plenty
> of opportunity to fix them before now, but people seem to
> have a very blinkered idea about what you can put on a
> person's desk.

A lot of that has to do with two things. One that if you don't go on the
road, you don't need to be portable in a company's understanding. Two that a
desktop PC is inherently less stealable than a laptop. I think the business
world will always lag behind personal life but as benefits come from being
more integrated and being able better to communicate and access data
anywhere, big companied will change their approach.

>
> Laptops don't make good desktop replacements, not least
> because many of them seem to be designed so that they'll
> keep trying to charge the battery even when it's full (this
> ruins the battery). Docking stations (for laptop or PDA)
> might get around the screen & keyboard limitations, but I
> know that many offices prefer the convenience of having a
> machine dedicated to each desk (ideally one that can be
> bolted down). That way, Joe's office doesn't become unusable
> just because he's off sick and his system unit is in his
> jacket pocket!
>

Hmmm, well any Laptop that uses any of the Lithium variant batteries won't do
that. Because those batteries don't work like that. As for bolting down
laptops well isn't that a bit silly? Joe doesn't share his laptop with
anyone, he has it with him all the time. If he's sick at home and needs
access to data he has it with him. If he has a desktop that's at work, he
doesn't have that access. On the other hand, in my future all of his data is
accessible on the corporate network regardless so who cares anyway?

Andy
Anonymous
May 1, 2004 1:44:10 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Andy Mulhearn <unxmully@netcomuk.co.uk> wrote:

> I think that would place you in a power user class, people for whom
> there is no alternative to the command line and a shell because they
> support or use applications that only work that way.

No, people don't use the command line and shell because of "applications
that only work that way". Rather the opposite -- using a command line gives
much better and faster control, and allows you to do things that a GUI
can't, like piping one program's output into another.

A common request for GUI-based programs is to get a command line interface,
because a GUI is too restrictive, error prone and slow for professional use.

Regards,
--
*Art
Anonymous
May 1, 2004 1:52:44 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 19:51:38 +0100, Andy Ball wrote
(in article <_exkc.583$Hs1.422@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>):

>
> Hello Andy,
>
> AM> Who says a keyboard is the only way to get data into and out of
> > a device?
>
> It's not the only way, but it is a familiar, accurate and fast way to
> get data into a device (I s'pose the CapsLock LED counts as output ;-)

It may not be in 10 years time. By that time, voice may be the most familiar.
Who knows if the only way we get out of using this wretched keyboard designed
to slow down users of manual typewriters is voice recognition.

>
> AM> If it has the power and the longevity to run voice recognition
> > software and do sensible speech synthesis there are a number of
> > problems solved.
>
> I've yet to meet voice recognition software that could cope with my
> accent. I'm probably not alone in that. Perhaps that'll come with
> time, but I would much rather type than talk to a PDA. Despite all the
> jokes, the Apple Newton did a very good job of recognising my cursive
> handwriting. I imagine that'll be ready before speech -> text.

The newt was pretty good with mine as well, though I think screen size had a
lot to do with it, compared to the current Palm or PPC products.
>
> AM> Example, I want to know what time the next train is from London
> > to my home town Woolwich. ...saying "Ask Railtrack what is the
> > time of the next train to Woolwich from Cannon Street".
>
> I think that one was cancelled due to the wrong kind of leaves on the
> line. ;-)

What in April! :) 

Andy
Anonymous
May 1, 2004 1:54:49 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 17:54:10 +0100, Derek wrote
(in article <Xns94DB791A8728Fdagwinn@130.133.1.4>):

> While intrepidly exploring comp.sys.palmtops.pilot, Adam Helberg
> rolled initiative and posted the following:
>
>>
>> "Andy Mulhearn" <unxmully@netcomuk.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:c6tfcv$g2vb5$1@ID-71777.news.uni-berlin.de...
>>> On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 06:48:46 +0100, Adam Helberg wrote
>>> (in article
>>> <2Nlkc.14965$eZ5.9960@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>):
>>>
>>> [snipped]
>>>
>>>> The personal computer will not be replaced by the PDA because
>>>> the gap between the
>>>> capabilities will remain. The PDA is becoming more powerful
>>>> but so is the desktop and the
>>>> laptop. They all have their place.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Personally I think that's a pretty bold statement and one that
>>> I think the next decade will prove completely wrong (how's that
>>> for a bold statement as well).
>>>
>>> Once the power problem has been solved, and that to me is the
>>> really big problem, I think we'll see convergence of personal
>>> devices. In ten years the desktop and laptop will be gone for
>>> all but specialist uses and smaller connected devices will be
>>> the norm.
>>>
>>> No idea what they'll look like but I seriously doubt I'd be
>>> typing this message on anything that looks like an iBook in
>>> 2014.
>>>
>>> Andy
>>
>> People have been predicting the end of the desktop, with the
>> laptop becoming more powerful, for years and it just has not
>> happened. There is also a gap between these two and you just
>> cannot undo the size difference with technology, at least not in
>> the conceivable future. Even just the mechanical differences
>> give the laptop a disadvantage (screen size, I/O access etc)
>
> But it IS happening, albeit slowly. Laptops are expected to be 50%
> of all new computer sales in the U.S. and 40% of all sales
> worldwide by 2007.
>
> And the "Gap" is not that important for the average user.
> Considering that the vast majority of users don't play high-end
> games, do high-res graphic work, or edit videos, the difference
> between the two is not that great.
>
> Most of the other graduate students I've spoken with in my
> department have already or plan to replace their desktop with a
> laptop the next time they buy a computer.
>
> It'll likely happen. But it'll also likely result in the sale of a
> lot of docking stations, monitors and standard keyboards.
>
>

It has a huge advantage in the home, well my rather small one that is. A
laptop takes up so much less space than a desktop that it's a no brainer. And
now that the price difference between a decent laptop and desktop is
marginal, why would anyone who's not into bleeding edge games bother?

Andy
Anonymous
May 1, 2004 1:56:51 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 21:05:59 +0100, Adam Helberg wrote
(in article <Hkykc.571$V97.132@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>):

> Graduate students and university students have special needs--namely
> portability. When you
> have a house the issue of portability is not as important.
>

Sorry, I couldn't disagree more. I resented the space a big desktop took in
my house.

Andy
May 1, 2004 3:26:43 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Andy Mulhearn <unxmully@netcomuk.co.uk> wrote in news:c6tfcv$g2vb5$1@ID-
71777.news.uni-berlin.de:

> No idea what they'll look like but I seriously doubt I'd be typing this
> message on anything that looks like an iBook in 2014.
>
>

I'm saving this post, we'll see if in ten years you are right.

--
Marc
http://www.marcmywords.com


- It's not the bullet that kills you, it's the hole.
Anonymous
May 1, 2004 9:01:13 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Hello Andy,

AM> I think that would place you in a power user class,
> people for whom there is no alternative to the command
> line and a shell because they support or use
> applications that only work that way. But that very
> much makes you not one of the man-in-the-street users.

I make no claim to be normal, let alone typical! ;-) BTW,
you're right about my having to support command-line (and
full-screen) text applications, but it's also true that I
sometimes choose those over a graphical alternative because
they're faster (especially over a slow wireless link) and
often more powerful in any case.

AM> Two that a desktop PC is inherently less stealable
> than a laptop.

That's what I meant. Perhaps it's not what I said though.

AM> Hmmm, well any Laptop that uses any of the Lithium
> variant batteries won't do that. Because those
> batteries don't work like that.

I'd have to test that before I was convinced.

AM> As for bolting down laptops well isn't that a bit
> silly?

Uh... yes, that's why I meant that desktops were more apt to
be bolted down, even if that's not what I said.

AM> Joe doesn't share his laptop with anyone, he has it
> with him all the time. If he's sick at home and needs
> access to data he has it with him. If he has a desktop
> that's at work, he doesn't have that access.

Why not? When I'm out of the office and need something from
my desktop, I just VNC into it (through an SSH tunnel).

- Andy Ball
Anonymous
May 1, 2004 9:08:24 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Hello Andy,

AM> It may not be in 10 years time. By that time, voice may be the
> most familiar. Who knows if the only way we get out of using
> this wretched keyboard designed to slow down users of manual
> typewriters is voice recognition.

By then I expect the kids'll be in control. I happen to like keyboards
and I've spent enough years pounding them that they don't slow me down
at all, quite the opposite.

ASB> I think that one was cancelled due to the wrong kind of leaves
> on the line. ;-)

AM> What in April! :) 

With British weather, who can tell!? :-)

- Andy Ball
Anonymous
May 1, 2004 10:38:23 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 18:41:45 GMT, Andy Ball <ball@not.valid> wrote:
|
|Is there a Zaurus with a 480x200 (or larger) screen in
|landscape orientation? 640 pixels across would give me a
|more useable font, but 480 might do at a push (it's hard to
|tell without seeing it).
|

several, SL C750, SL C760 and the SL C850, the only caveat is that
they are not being exported by Sharp (all 3 are 640x480)

you can get them, and the exporter
http://www.dynamism.com/zaurus/index.shtml will translate the OS to
English with the exception of the help files (but I believe that is
being worked on by a 3rd party even now)

in essence it's a mini tablet pc, the form factor requires that all
goodies be external
Anonymous
May 1, 2004 1:28:20 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 23:43:49 +0100, Arthur Hagen wrote
(in article <6e1bm1-sf7.ln1@kether.broomstick.com>):

> Andy Mulhearn <unxmully@netcomuk.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> I think that would place you in a power user class, people for whom
>> there is no alternative to the command line and a shell because they
>> support or use applications that only work that way.
>
> No, people don't use the command line and shell because of "applications
> that only work that way". Rather the opposite -- using a command line gives
> much better and faster control, and allows you to do things that a GUI
> can't, like piping one program's output into another.

I was thinking of the components that will be around for 10 years because
they're made that way. Like Phone switches and comms gear, not necessarily
things where it is easier to do it at a shell prompt.

There are four people in my house, only one of them ever uses a shell prompt
(me). I'd suggest that looking at the general population, even fewer people
will have used a cmd prompt, or anything like it. or even know it exists.

What you've identified is the exception, not the rule.

>
> A common request for GUI-based programs is to get a command line interface,
> because a GUI is too restrictive, error prone and slow for professional use.
>

But only for a minority of things people do, and those tasks are going to get
fewer and further between and the number of people who want to do them will
get smaller IMHO.

Andy
Anonymous
May 1, 2004 1:35:43 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Sat, 1 May 2004 00:26:43 +0100, Marc wrote
(in article <Xns94DBC5CE76172mastercougarhotmailc@marcmywords.com>):

> Andy Mulhearn <unxmully@netcomuk.co.uk> wrote in news:c6tfcv$g2vb5$1@ID-
> 71777.news.uni-berlin.de:
>
>> No idea what they'll look like but I seriously doubt I'd be typing this
>> message on anything that looks like an iBook in 2014.
>>
>>
>
> I'm saving this post, we'll see if in ten years you are right.
>
>

Actually, if you think about it I can already do it. All I need to do is put
Yanoff on my T3 or InkSpot on the Newton I have gathering dust on the shelf
and I'm away.

Not in the spirit of the prediction though and I wouldn't do it from choice
:) 

Andy
Anonymous
May 1, 2004 2:05:11 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 21:05:25 +0100, Derek wrote
(in article <Xns94DB9986E9AF7dagwinn@130.133.1.4>):

> While intrepidly exploring comp.sys.palmtops.pilot, Andy Mulhearn
> rolled initiative and posted the following:
>

[snipped]

>> I'll put £1 away now, in 10 years the interest should cover a
>> reasonable bet.
>
> Let's see...at 1% interest in a savings account in the U.S. if
> you're lucky...

We're paying a lot more than that in the UK at present.

[more snipped]

>>
>> Encryption? Or keep the data remote with secured wireless
>> access.
>
> But the only place I use it is at my desk, hence the reason I don't
> even need it with me.

OK, you can have that one. But how secure is that identifiable desktop. If
the data is that sensitive should there be more physical security around it?
On a file system in a server room perhaps, with access limited to you?

>
>>> Granted, a properly setup system would have that data on a
>>> removable hard drive that the PDA would access as soon as it's
>>> dropped in the cradle.
>>
>> That should be fine, but how secure is your desktop? Not wishing
>> to fork the discussion but if it's not locked in a secured room,
>> is it really that safe?
>
> If you want to pick nits, no location is 100% safe. But in the
> basement of my house or on the server in a locked room on campus is
> much safer than galavanting around town in my pocket.
>

Not nitpicking - remember it's me that says you don't need the desktop
because your PDA has access to all of your data either in it's own local
store or on a remote server.

In my scenario, the data is with you when you want it to be but only when you
explicitly ask for it. If someone steals your PDA, they don't a) know how to
get at your remote data or b) have a working device because like a stolen
mobile phone you've had it's access rights revoked.

>
>>>> Alternatively your "PDA" could be just the interface which
>>>> communicates wirelessly with the server on which all of your
>>>> data and big applications reside.
>>>
>>> Or simply connect upon being dropped in the cradle.
>>
>> True, if you can synch more data than we currently get with
>> Hotsync or activeshite.
>
> I think you missed the idea. I was suggesting that the data, which
> does not need to travel with me, would reside on an external drive.
> When I got back and dropped the handheld in the cradle, I'd have
> access to the drive and the data. No syncing of data would be
> necessary.

No, like synching currently allows you to update an address on your PDA and
synch the changes to Outlook. I would want to do that with more data than
the PDA currently supports - documents I'm working on for example. The
newsgroup post I made because I want to win a bet in 10 years time. That sort
of thing.

Hmm, but then if mobile comms are good enough, would you need a local store?
Let me think about that one.

Anyway, if you have data that you take with you that is important you keep
you'd want some way of backing it up at the very least.

>
>>> A cradle that works as a docking port would have immediate
>>> connectivity to the monitor, keyboard and mouse, as well as any
>>> network connections, printers, or external harddrives.
>>>
>>
>> Sort of like you get with a shrunk laptop but with added
>> syncronisation of data to ensure your mobile and server side
>> copies are kept up to date.
>
> Not really, because the stuff on the server would be the stuff I
> don't want to take with me.

See above, you'd need to partition your data into what you take with you and
what you don't. But you still need to synch the stuff you take with you so it
doesn't get lost.

>
>
> As for the "Shrunk laptop" idea... http://www.oqo.com/

I was thinking more of this in the short term
http://www.windowsfordevices.com/articles/AT3074169474.... thought the
company seems to have gone AWOL.

[snipped - it was repeating stuff above]

Andy
Anonymous
May 1, 2004 2:34:19 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

ECM wrote on 29 Apr 2004:

> I've recently read an article about the "flat" PDA market (sorry, I
> can't recall where... Wired, or Slashdot, perhaps?) and how PDA's are
> going to disappear in the next few years, as the functions they
> perform become more successfully combined with cell phones, etc.

I, personally, don't think so. How often have you seen people talking on
their cell phone while simultaneously accessing information on their
PDA? I've read reports from several people who've gone back to a PDA
after finding the combo doesn't work that well for them. Smart Phones
may cut into the number of PDA models, but I don't think they will ever
completely replace them.

--
RonB
"There's a scene there...somewhere"
Anonymous
May 1, 2004 2:36:16 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

piesse wrote on 29 Apr 2004:

> uhm. Your old pentium 75 had a better keyboard, a much larger screen,
> and much more storage memory than your zire. I won't think of writing
> a thesis on a zire....

You must not have a copy of WordSmith and a Stowaway keyboard then.

(But I get your point. Even though I write quite a bit using WordSmith
and the Stowaway (Palm Portable Keyboard) I still sync to my desktop.)

--
RonB
"There's a scene there...somewhere"
Anonymous
May 1, 2004 7:19:23 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

While intrepidly exploring comp.sys.palmtops.pilot, Andy Mulhearn
rolled initiative and posted the following:

> On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 21:05:25 +0100, Derek wrote
> (in article <Xns94DB9986E9AF7dagwinn@130.133.1.4>):
>
>> While intrepidly exploring comp.sys.palmtops.pilot, Andy
>> Mulhearn rolled initiative and posted the following:
>>
>
> [snipped]

The above taken as permission to snip.

[ snip ]

>> But the only place I use it is at my desk, hence the reason I
>> don't even need it with me.
>
> OK, you can have that one. But how secure is that identifiable
> desktop. If the data is that sensitive should there be more
> physical security around it? On a file system in a server room
> perhaps, with access limited to you?

In the basement of my house where my wife and I are the only ones who
use it? Pretty secure.

However, the actual data is on a server on campus in a locked room
which I access through FTP, even though nobody's supposed to know how
to do that. :) 

So I don't think we're that far apart on this one..

[ snip ]

>> I think you missed the idea. I was suggesting that the data,
>> which does not need to travel with me, would reside on an
>> external drive. When I got back and dropped the handheld in the
>> cradle, I'd have access to the drive and the data. No syncing
>> of data would be necessary.
>
> No, like synching currently allows you to update an address on
> your PDA and synch the changes to Outlook. I would want to do
> that with more data than the PDA currently supports - documents
> I'm working on for example. The newsgroup post I made because I
> want to win a bet in 10 years time. That sort of thing.
>
> Hmm, but then if mobile comms are good enough, would you need a
> local store? Let me think about that one.
>
> Anyway, if you have data that you take with you that is
> important you keep you'd want some way of backing it up at the
> very least.

I see what you're saying. But what I'm saying is that working with
the data comfortably takes a screen larger than any handheld
currently on the market. I don't need the data to go with me because
the size limitation of the screen increase data entry and management
errors.

But if my handheld were closer to a real PC, I'd like instant access
to the server information as soon as I plunk it in the cradle at my
desk.


>>>> A cradle that works as a docking port would have immediate
>>>> connectivity to the monitor, keyboard and mouse, as well as
>>>> any network connections, printers, or external harddrives.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Sort of like you get with a shrunk laptop but with added
>>> syncronisation of data to ensure your mobile and server side
>>> copies are kept up to date.
>>
>> Not really, because the stuff on the server would be the stuff
>> I don't want to take with me.
>
> See above, you'd need to partition your data into what you take
> with you and what you don't. But you still need to synch the
> stuff you take with you so it doesn't get lost.

Why sync it if it can just reside on the harddrive? If the handheld
is a complete stand alone unit, like my laptop, I've got the files
with me at all times. I don't sync my laptop with my desktop,
although I do periodically back them up.

>> As for the "Shrunk laptop" idea... http://www.oqo.com/
>
> I was thinking more of this in the short term
> http://www.windowsfordevices.com/articles/AT3074169474....
> thought the company seems to have gone AWOL.

Ok, that's actually really neat. But... it's a little big to keep in
my pants pocket. ;) 

--
Derek

Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
But it rocks absolutely, too.
!