What to use for combined guitar and headphone cable?

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

Hi All,

A little background first, I'm a bass player creating my own personal
monitoring solution for live performances. I've got it all worked out
bar one cable. I want a single cable to go between me and my amp which
will both send my bass signal to the amp whilst also feeding headphone
level audio back to me. I really want to use a single cable otherwise
I'll be tripping over the thing all night. Also, it needs to be a
robust as it will be stepped on a lot and have equipment run over it
from time to time! I'm considering something like the Mogami W3177.
More info here:

http://www.mogamicable.com/mogami_ [...] rmicc.html

Does this sound viable? It is four core (I need three minimum to
provide mono bass one way and stereo headphones the other). It also
contains cotton which will give it the strength it needs. Bit worried
that it is a suspension microphone cable though. Perhaps that steel
re-inforcement could be a problem? I'm not expecting the cable to
match a high quality instrument cable but I'd just like the check its
not a silly choice before I go ahead and buy it. If anyone could
suggest an alternative that would be great too.

Thanks.

Darren.

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

Ben,

Thanks for the very complete reply. I tried to get hold of the W1306
cable but it was going to end up being a special order, not to mention
the fact that I'd need to buy an entire drum of it. Just too costly
really and I have a gig tomorrow! Anyway, I decide to go the 'Heath
Robinson' route and fix together two cables myself. Actually, someone
on another forum suggested feeding the guitar cable down a coiled
headphone cable. Interesting idea but I was worried about ending up
being pulled back towards my amp. In the end I used heatshrink to bond
together two cables, placing a couple of cm's of heatshrink about
every 12cm. The end result is excellent - very strong and flexible
too. Did take quite some time to do though so not for the
fainthearted.

P.s. I'm keeping your reply tucked away in case I ever come back to
this and want to go the starquad route so thanks again.

Regards.

Darren.


Ben Bradley <ben_nospam_bradley@frontiernet.net> wrote in message news:<2eki51l04gfean2eui84mbv6bm1q6ag4h0@4ax.com>...
> On 10 Apr 2005 03:24:00 -0700, panache_blues@hotmail.com (Darren
> Dangerfield) wrote:
>
> >Hi All,
> >
> >A little background first, I'm a bass player creating my own personal
> >monitoring solution for live performances. I've got it all worked out
> >bar one cable. I want a single cable to go between me and my amp which
> >will both send my bass signal to the amp whilst also feeding headphone
> >level audio back to me. I really want to use a single cable otherwise
> >I'll be tripping over the thing all night. Also, it needs to be a
> >robust as it will be stepped on a lot and have equipment run over it
> >from time to time! I'm considering something like the Mogami W3177.
> >More info here:
> >
> >http://www.mogamicable.com/mogami_cab/micr_cables/stereo_miccab/stermicc.html
> >
> >Does this sound viable? It is four core (I need three minimum to
> >provide mono bass one way and stereo headphones the other). It also
>
> I glanced at the cable, it looks like it should do what you want.
> One important parameter is to look at the capacitance, the 23.5pF/ft
> figure. Muhtiply that by the length of the cable you'll want to use,
> and compare it with your regular instrument cable (measure it or look
> it up, however you can...). OTOH, having a couple of dB signal drop at
> 5kHz won't be nearly a noticable or objectionable on bass as it would
> be on a bright-sounding guitar. but I'd try to make it for as low a
> capacitance as I reasonably could. Ten feet will be no problem, but
> 100 feet may be.
>
> Rereading above, you wrote W3177, you should really use the W3106
> (which is what I at first thought you were asking about). Firstly, you
> need to run separate grounds for your instrument and heaphones, (which
> using three of the four inner conductors in the W3177, as you were
> thinking about doing, would do), but also you need these in separate
> shields, else the headphone signal may be picked up by the instrument
> wire, especially at higher frequencies where it can give a feedback
> path for oscillation (probably ultrasonic - you may not hear it, but
> it could burn up some amplifiers).
> The big thing to remember is that the instrument line and the
> headphone line should be totally separate electrically, including
> being in different shields. The three headphone lines don't really
> need shielding except for the possibility that they may induce a
> signal into the cable next to them.
> The second and third cables are designed to be wired as "star quad"
> balanced mic cables, but (except for the caveats above) you can use
> these wires any way you want. Actually, I'd take advantage of the
> star-quad configuration to reduce crosstalk - with the W3178, use the
> top and bottom pair to connect to one headphone, and the left and
> right pair to connect to the other. Do not tie together the common
> grounds at the headphone end (you'll need to get rid of the usual
> headphone TRS plug and the three-conductor headphone cord, and connect
> these four wires directly to the two headphone drivers), and then
> connect the headphone grounds and shield for the headphone cable
> together only at the amplifier/mixer end of the cable. And of course
> have the instrument cable go separately to the amp, as usual.
>
> >contains cotton which will give it the strength it needs. Bit worried
> >that it is a suspension microphone cable though. Perhaps that steel
> >re-inforcement could be a problem? I'm not expecting the cable to
> >match a high quality instrument cable but I'd just like the check its
> >not a silly choice before I go ahead and buy it. If anyone could
> >suggest an alternative that would be great too.
>
> There's also the DIY idea using two cables and a few rolls of
> electrical tape.
>
> >Thanks.
> >
> >Darren.
>
> -----
> http://mindspring.com/~benbradley