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Sub Amps - a Follow up Question

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April 10, 2005 3:08:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

OK, I have been looking into an amp to go between my (new to me) passive
sub and my (6 mo old) A/V Receiver.

The Receiver has a single SUB output jack, but the speaker enclosure has
both L & R inputs, in fact it has outputs as well for I assume satellite
speakers if I so choose. (We'll ignore those.)

My plan is to add this sub to an existing setup that already had decent
Front, Center and Surround speakers.

My question this time around is how best to deal with a single Sub
Output from the source through an Amp and on to a Stereo (perhaps dual
voice coiled?) Subwoofer.

Here's what I've brainstormed already:

- Run just one channel of the Amp and the Sub, ignoring the other
winding in the speaker & the other channel of the amp.

- Find an Amp that will accept a single input and will in turn output to
stereo.

- Same as option #1, but use both speaker windings, basically changing
the Ohms rating.

- Find a Mono Amp and A) Use just one winding in the speaker, or of
course B) Single in, Single out but use both windings on the Sub.

What say ye?


TBerk

More about : amps follow question

Anonymous
April 10, 2005 9:43:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

OK, I have been looking into an amp to go between my (new to me)
passive
sub and my (6 mo old) A/V Receiver.


The Receiver has a single SUB output jack, but the speaker enclosure
has
both L & R inputs, in fact it has outputs as well for I assume
satellite
speakers if I so choose. (We'll ignore those.)
_________________________________________________
The Reciever has an RCA connection marked sub out, correct?
If so just connect the RCA cables from there to the sub input which I
assume are also RCA connectors. Just to be sure, we are talking about
a powered subwoofer, correct?

The sub out from the reciever should already sum the LF to mono so no
need to worry further.

The only other setups I've seen are when the connections on the sub
woofer are for speaker wire input from the amp/reciever and outputs to
the main front speakers.

________________________________________________
My plan is to add this sub to an existing setup that already had decent

Front, Center and Surround speakers.


My question this time around is how best to deal with a single Sub
Output from the source through an Amp and on to a Stereo (perhaps dual
voice coiled?) Subwoofer.
______________________________________________________
Just connect form the sub output on the reciever, to the input on the
sub. then you go about setting up the crossover on the sub to blend
with the main front speakers. It would be best (if you haven't already
purchased the sub) to get a sub that has both adjustable high and low
pass filter sections, failing that a passive sub with a separate amp
that has, (as many proamps do) a low pass filter and then add a high
pass filter. The reason for this, is to limit the LF output from the
main speakers and save them from working in their most difficult area.
Not having paid any attention to what the abilities are of an A/V
reciever I can't say if these sort of features are already built in,
but I'm sure the owners manual will tell you.
______________________________________________________

If you buy a passive sub, or build one then you need an amp that can be
bridged to mono and preferably you need both high pass and low pass
functions to send only frequencies below a certain point (80Hz or less,
although the sub out will likely be 150-200 Hz) and send only
frequencies above a variable point to the main speakers. They need to
be variable and preferably the slopes should be 24 dB/octave to keep
the bass in the sub and not leak out.

www.hypex.nl has some of the best sub amps around.
Do a search for pro amplifiers and you will find there are many
affordable choices for bridgeable amps that will provide you with ample
power at lower prices than the typical sub amp. Then if you want to be
thourough, add a parametric EQ to smooth out probable FR bumps imposed
by the room.

Adire's Shiva and Tempest drivers are some of the best subwoofer
drivers available, and plans for cabinets are easy enough to find
through them as well. Another option in the DIY sub area is Rhythmik
Audio which also have a very godd product. If yo go the DIY route look
into the possiblity of using sonotube instead of an MDF cabinet. You
might wind up with a sub that looks something like a water heater, but
it will be at least as strong as a conventional cabinet and much
cheaper.

Adire also makes finished subs. Other good subs that are already
assembled are, HSU, PSB, NHT (who also sell there 12" woofer to the DIY
market for use in a sealed enclosure, the absolute easiest DIY project
there is), and SVS. All of these are good products and will give you
excellent bass.

Lastly you will need something that generates test tones so you can
match the sub to the mains, and an SPL meter to measure the levels so
you can match them for smooth integration.

You might want to check with the subwoofer section of www.diyaudio.com
and check the archives for some of the projects that have been done by
the participants.

There are plenty of online resources if you go the DIY route, which is
what I did. I'll never buy a ready made sub again, since I know you
can get equal or better performance by doing it yourself.
Anonymous
April 11, 2005 12:01:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

In <wO76e.8$t85.3@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>, on 04/10/05
at 11:08 AM, T <tberk@sbcglobal.net> said:


[ ... ]
>The Receiver has a single SUB output jack
[ ... ]

The RCA subwoofer output jack on a surround sound receiver is MONO and
any frequencies that don't belong to the subwoofer have been removed.
In the setup menu for the receiver, claim that the front and/or rear
speakers are "small" if you want bass that normally would be routed to
them to be withheld and routed to the subwoofer instead.

Assuming you have an appropriate amount of power and a capable
subwoofer, it doesn't matter if you use an external amplifier or an
amplifier built into the subwoofer.

The subwoofer is MONO even if it has a left and a right input.
Connecting to only the left or right input decreases the output level a
bit, but you can easily compensate for that by turning up the level
adjustment. (You will have to adjust the level anyway so that the
subwoofer output matches the main channels.)

A dual coil passive subwoofer appears as if it is two speakers. If you
use both coils, your amplifier will behave as if a second speaker has
been added. (Depending on who is lurking on the news group, this
statement may create some "flames". If it does, draw your own
conclusions after the flames have died down a bit.)

Passive subwoofers don't usually include level controls. Hopefully, the
gain of the external amplifier is variable or compatible with the
subwoofer output adjustment range of your receiver and the subwoofer
efficiency. It's a complex discussion when debating if the power
handling capability of the subwoofer would be much different when
driving one or both coils. True, the impedance seen by the amplifier is
different, but all the heat from the subwoofer coils is being dumped
into the same confined space in any case.

Make sure that the subwoofer's internal crossover does not fight with
the signal sent by the receiver.

-----------------------------------------------------------
spam: uce@ftc.gov
wordgame:123(abc):<14 9 20 5 2 9 18 4 at 22 15 9 3 5 14 5 20 dot 3 15
13> (Barry Mann)
[sorry about the puzzle, spammers are ruining my mailbox]
-----------------------------------------------------------
Related resources
April 14, 2005 3:45:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

Thank you both (Learning & Mann).

Some clarification from my end.

- I KNOW the A/V output is MONO.

- I have a Passive prebuilt SUB.

- It is a Paradigm SB-100.

Currently I don't have a stand alone amp for it, I am leaning towards
running the SUB output of the A/V unit through a vintage Sony Receiver I
have on the AUX input.

My dilemma is wrapped around having both Left & Right binding posts on
the bottom of the Sub cabinet. I'll likely ignore one side and just hook
up one or the other only.


TBerk
Anonymous
April 14, 2005 3:45:55 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

T wrote:
> Thank you both (Learning & Mann).
>
> Some clarification from my end.
>
> - I KNOW the A/V output is MONO.
>
> - I have a Passive prebuilt SUB.
>
> - It is a Paradigm SB-100.
>
> Currently I don't have a stand alone amp for it, I am leaning towards
> running the SUB output of the A/V unit through a vintage Sony
> Receiver I have on the AUX input.
>
> My dilemma is wrapped around having both Left & Right binding posts on
> the bottom of the Sub cabinet. I'll likely ignore one side and just
> hook up one or the other only.
>
Does it also have L & R *output* terminals? If so, it probably has a dual
coil subwoofer driver and passive crossover. It can be placed directly on
the outputs of your amplifier, with your L&R front speakers connected to the
subwoofer outs. The crossover will handle the job of filtering some of the
low frequencies out of the main speakers and directing them to the sub...a
workable solution, but inefficient...some power will be wasted in the
crossover, and you might not want to filter the lows from your mains.

****Main amp speaker outs>sub ins>L&R speakers OR Main amp speaker outs
parallel with sub ins and L&R speakers (possible impedance problem?)****

The setup you describe, using an auxiliary sub amp, will result in slightly
more volume (assuming enough power output from that amp). Use a 'Y' cable
(one RCA male to two RCA males) to route sub output from your main amp to
the AUX ins on your sub amp, and connect the L&R speaker outs to your sub
ins.

***Main amp sub out>'Y' cable>L&R sub amp AUX ins>sub amp L&R speaker
outs>sub***

jak
>
> TBerk
Anonymous
April 14, 2005 10:57:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

T Apr 14, 4:45 am show options

Newsgroups: rec.audio.tech
From: T <t...@sbcglobal.net>


Some clarification from my end.


- I KNOW the A/V output is MONO.


- I have a Passive prebuilt SUB.


- It is a Paradigm SB-100.


Currently I don't have a stand alone amp for it, I am leaning towards
running the SUB output of the A/V unit through a vintage Sony Receiver
I
have on the AUX input.


My dilemma is wrapped around having both Left & Right binding posts on
the bottom of the Sub cabinet. I'll likely ignore one side and just
hook
up one or the other only.


TBerk


T: Just go to www.svssubwoofers and click on amps and EQ's. You find
2 Sampson amps that shoudl do very nicely for your sub. I think best
results would be obtained by adding an electronci xover and parametric
EQ, to flatten out the response.
April 15, 2005 7:06:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

jakdedert wrote:

<snip>
> Use a 'Y' cable (one RCA male to two RCA males)
> to route sub output from your main amp to
> the AUX ins on your sub amp, and connect the
> L&R speaker outs to your sub ins.
>
> ***Main amp sub out>'Y' cable>L&R sub amp AUX ins>sub amp L&R speaker
> outs>sub***
>
> jak
>


MuHahahahahah. That was _exactly_ what I wanted to hear.

It's just to get the thing a little run. I'll be picking out a dedicated
stand alone amp down the line.


Thx everybody.
TBerk
April 15, 2005 10:25:48 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

"T" <tberk@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:ucG7e.2526$t85.1061@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
> jakdedert wrote:
>
> <snip>
>> Use a 'Y' cable (one RCA male to two RCA males) to route sub output
>> from your main amp to
>> the AUX ins on your sub amp, and connect the L&R speaker outs to
>> your sub ins.
>>
>> ***Main amp sub out>'Y' cable>L&R sub amp AUX ins>sub amp L&R
>> speaker
>> outs>sub***
>>
>> jak
>>
>
>
> MuHahahahahah. That was _exactly_ what I wanted to hear.
>
> It's just to get the thing a little run. I'll be picking out a
> dedicated stand alone amp down the line.

Check out PartExpress linear FET class AB sub amps. Nice units, good
value - I have two in service (home theatre and stage piano keyboard)
.. BTW, I have no connection with this company.
Cheers,
Roger
April 16, 2005 10:14:38 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

Engineer wrote:
> "T" <tberk@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:ucG7e.2526$t85.1061@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
>
>>jakdedert wrote:
>>
>><snip>
>>
>>>Use a 'Y' cable (one RCA male to two RCA males) to route sub output
>>>from your main amp to
>>>the AUX ins on your sub amp, and connect the L&R speaker outs to
>>>your sub ins.
>>>
>>>***Main amp sub out>'Y' cable>L&R sub amp AUX ins>sub amp L&R
>>>speaker
>>>outs>sub***
>>>
>>>jak
>>>
>>
>>
>>MuHahahahahah. That was _exactly_ what I wanted to hear.
>>
>>It's just to get the thing a little run. I'll be picking out a
>>dedicated stand alone amp down the line.
>
>
> Check out PartExpress linear FET class AB sub amps. Nice units, good
> value - I have two in service (home theatre and stage piano keyboard)
> . BTW, I have no connection with this company.
> Cheers,
> Roger
>
>



Yeah, they seem to get a lot of recommendations.

I have know of them for awhile but just recently when i got up the
gumption to build a sub (and hence buy one of those amps) a friend
dropped this passive prebuilt sub on me for free so I was going to hook
it up and give it a run to see what I was working with.


Thx everybody,
TBerk
April 16, 2005 12:47:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

In article <i328e.4683$dT4.1372@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>,
T <tberk@sbcglobal.net> wrote:


>
>
>
> Yeah, they seem to get a lot of recommendations.
>
> I have know of them for awhile but just recently when i got up the
> gumption to build a sub (and hence buy one of those amps) a friend
> dropped this passive prebuilt sub on me for free so I was going to hook
> it up and give it a run to see what I was working with.
>
>
> Thx everybody,
> TBerk

Here's one more for a recommendation. My only beef is the 2nd order xo,
may not be enough in some situations. But for the price vs. performance
ratio, they can't be beat.

hth,

--
Cyrus

*coughcasaucedoprodigynetcough*
Anonymous
April 16, 2005 6:24:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

Here's one more for a recommendation. My only beef is the 2nd order xo,

may not be enough in some situations. But for the price vs. performance

ratio, they can't be beat.

hth,


________________________________________-

Absolutely, Do not consider anything less than a 4th order L/R xover.
The parts express plate amp I saw says nothing about it's xover. IMO
the Rythmik Audio or Adire Audio Hypex amps are a much better choice
for plate amps.

ZZsounds has a wide choice of freestanding proamps with lowpass xovers
built in. Pro audio seems to allow far more flexibility and much better
prices for things like parametric EQ's and xovers.
Anonymous
April 16, 2005 7:18:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

Cyrus said:

The Rythmik amps *are* the PE amps, with upgraded caps/opamps and 4th
order xo's as opposed to PE's 2nd order. This is parroted information
though, I have no first hand experience. I can't see paying more than
$150us for an AB plate amp w/out at least one parametric band and 2nd
order xo's though.

Have you any experience with Adire's new ADA series plate amps?
________________________________________________________

No, my only experience is with the HS200, but I have seen many
favorabloe comments on the Rythmik gear at www.diyaudio.com subwoofer
section.
Anonymous
April 16, 2005 8:01:55 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

Cyrus said:
The Rythmik amps *are* the PE amps, with upgraded caps/opamps and 4th
order xo's as opposed to PE's 2nd order. This is parroted information
though, I have no first hand experience. I can't see paying more than
$150us for an AB plate amp w/out at least one parametric band and 2nd
order xo's though.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think the biggest bang for the buck with the greatest flexibility
would be the Behringer EP1500 with the parametric EQ I mentioned
earlier.
400 wpc@ 4 ohms or in bridged mono mode 900@ 8 ohms and 1400 @ 4 ohms.
It has a switchable LP filter for 30 Hz or 50 Hz and on/off muting. At
$249.00 for the amp and IIRC $89.00 for the EQ, think you'd be set for
the next 20 years or so and the only thing left to upgrade would be the
driver in the sub, but that's a whole 'nother story.
Anonymous
April 16, 2005 9:55:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

Cyrus said:

>I concur about the Behringer amps. Keep in mind though, one should
>derate them a bit as the wattage is measured at 1k. Hardly a
measurement
>for sub duties.

They give measurements for stereo and for mono that are for 10db below
rated output power @ 8ohms of 900 watts with distortion of <.01% so I
think there'll be plenty of power for any sub currently available.

>Personally, I'm done with plate amps and my next upgrade step will be
a
>noisy fan'ed Behringer or equivalent amp. Placed in an adjacent room
>and/or amp rack of course.


>Here come the NSB line arrays and Avalanche 18's IB'ed. *drool* Ah
well,
>one can dream till one can afford.


Have you any dealings with the Behringer and it's noise level from the
fan?
IB's have no interest for me, unless I get up into the attic. Perhaps
after the disk decompression heals, although mysingle Shiva is
currently filling my needs.
--
Cyrus
April 17, 2005 1:47:12 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

In article <1113686661.511526.228970@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
"still learning" <deskst49@peoplepc.com> wrote:

> Here's one more for a recommendation. My only beef is the 2nd order xo,
>
> may not be enough in some situations. But for the price vs. performance
>
> ratio, they can't be beat.
>
> hth,
>
>
> ________________________________________-
>
> Absolutely, Do not consider anything less than a 4th order L/R xover.
> The parts express plate amp I saw says nothing about it's xover. IMO
> the Rythmik Audio or Adire Audio Hypex amps are a much better choice
> for plate amps.
>
> ZZsounds has a wide choice of freestanding proamps with lowpass xovers
> built in. Pro audio seems to allow far more flexibility and much better
> prices for things like parametric EQ's and xovers.
>

The Rythmik amps *are* the PE amps, with upgraded caps/opamps and 4th
order xo's as opposed to PE's 2nd order. This is parroted information
though, I have no first hand experience. I can't see paying more than
$150us for an AB plate amp w/out at least one parametric band and 2nd
order xo's though.

Have you any experience with Adire's new ADA series plate amps?

--
Cyrus

*coughcasaucedoprodigynetcough*
April 17, 2005 2:27:37 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

In article <1113689918.476198.301930@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
"still learning" <deskst49@peoplepc.com> wrote:

> Cyrus said:
>
> The Rythmik amps *are* the PE amps, with upgraded caps/opamps and 4th
> order xo's as opposed to PE's 2nd order. This is parroted information
> though, I have no first hand experience. I can't see paying more than
> $150us for an AB plate amp w/out at least one parametric band and 2nd
> order xo's though.
>
> Have you any experience with Adire's new ADA series plate amps?
> ________________________________________________________
>
> No, my only experience is with the HS200, but I have seen many
> favorabloe comments on the Rythmik gear at www.diyaudio.com subwoofer
> section.
>

I've seen reviews of the same, can't go wrong with Rythmik it seems.

--
Cyrus

*coughcasaucedoprodigynetcough*
April 17, 2005 3:48:05 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

In article <1113691200.210568.165020@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"still learning" <deskst49@peoplepc.com> wrote:

> I think the biggest bang for the buck with the greatest flexibility
> would be the Behringer EP1500 with the parametric EQ I mentioned
> earlier.
> 400 wpc@ 4 ohms or in bridged mono mode 900@ 8 ohms and 1400 @ 4 ohms.
> It has a switchable LP filter for 30 Hz or 50 Hz and on/off muting. At
> $249.00 for the amp and IIRC $89.00 for the EQ, think you'd be set for
> the next 20 years or so and the only thing left to upgrade would be the
> driver in the sub, but that's a whole 'nother story.
>

I concur about the Behringer amps. Keep in mind though, one should
derate them a bit as the wattage is measured at 1k. Hardly a measurement
for sub duties.

Personally, I'm done with plate amps and my next upgrade step will be a
noisy fan'ed Behringer or equivalent amp. Placed in an adjacent room
and/or amp rack of course.

Here come the NSB line arrays and Avalanche 18's IB'ed. *drool* Ah well,
one can dream till one can afford.

--
Cyrus

*coughcasaucedoprodigynetcough*
Anonymous
April 17, 2005 12:00:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

Cyrus said:

Cyrus Apr 17, 1:22 am show options



In article <1113699329.217642.289...@o13g­2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
"still learning" <desks...@peoplepc.com> wrote:



> They give measurements for stereo and for mono that are for 10db
below
> rated output power @ 8ohms of 900 watts with distortion of <.01% so I

> think there'll be plenty of power for any sub currently available.



>>I'm not doubting that they're enough power one bit. Just saying don't

>>accept printed specs as gospel.

I just figure that for normal use they would be runing well below rated
output and distortion would not likely be a problem.

> Have you any dealings with the Behringer and it's noise level from
the
> fan?


>In the installation the Behringer amp was in that I experienced, it
was
>never quiet enough to notice it. A home setting is where its been
>reported to be a problem. IMO If one chooses to purchase, know its
>downfalls and install around said problems.

>Cult of the Infinitely Baffled has more info on PA amps, their fan
noise
>ratings in some cases, as well as other options and quieter fan
>replacements on some amps. There are of course other resources, but
the
>Cult has the most condensed info in this department.

Interesting, never heard of this group, I'll have to check them out.


> IB's have no interest for me, unless I get up into the attic.
Perhaps
> after the disk decompression heals, although mysingle Shiva is
> currently filling my needs.


>>Ugh sorry to hear about the disk troubles.

Surgery is scheduled for the 10th of next month. I'm just glad that
the problem has been identified and will be resolved. My regular doc
seems to have given up caring much about his practice. He had been
telling me for a year that I needn't consult with a surgeon as there
was nothing that could be done. Finally I got him to give me a
referral and the Surgeon says not only can something be done but it
should be done ASAP.

>An IB is well worth the effort IMO. Whether ceiling or adjacent room
>mounted. I've had experience with one and helped set up another. I was

>hooked before proper eq.


>My Shiva did well until it was replaced with an Atlas12. No more
>bottoming in the 88.5L sealed enclosure.

That is a bit small for a Shiva. 140 liters would be more suitable.

I'm looking to try mine in a sonotube, currently it's in a similar size
cabinet.



hth,


--
April 17, 2005 12:22:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

In article <1113699329.217642.289650@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
"still learning" <deskst49@peoplepc.com> wrote:


>
> They give measurements for stereo and for mono that are for 10db below
> rated output power @ 8ohms of 900 watts with distortion of <.01% so I
> think there'll be plenty of power for any sub currently available.
>

I'm not doubting that they're enough power one bit. Just saying don't
accept printed specs as gospel.

> Have you any dealings with the Behringer and it's noise level from the
> fan?

In the installation the Behringer amp was in that I experienced, it was
never quiet enough to notice it. A home setting is where its been
reported to be a problem. IMO If one chooses to purchase, know its
downfalls and install around said problems.

Cult of the Infinitely Baffled has more info on PA amps, their fan noise
ratings in some cases, as well as other options and quieter fan
replacements on some amps. There are of course other resources, but the
Cult has the most condensed info in this department.

> IB's have no interest for me, unless I get up into the attic. Perhaps
> after the disk decompression heals, although mysingle Shiva is
> currently filling my needs.

Ugh sorry to hear about the disk troubles.

An IB is well worth the effort IMO. Whether ceiling or adjacent room
mounted. I've had experience with one and helped set up another. I was
hooked before proper eq.

My Shiva did well until it was replaced with an Atlas12. No more
bottoming in the 88.5L sealed enclosure.

hth,

--
Cyrus

*coughcasaucedoprodigynetcough*
Anonymous
April 17, 2005 8:25:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

Cyrus:

I went to the Cult of the Infinitely Baffled and found it to be a very
good place. Lots of useful info.
Anybody into DIY and subs should pay a visit.

Thanks.
Anonymous
April 18, 2005 3:49:18 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

Cyrus daid:

> >My Shiva did well until it was replaced with an Atlas12. No more
> >bottoming in the 88.5L sealed enclosure.


> That is a bit small for a Shiva. 140 liters would be more suitable.



>Really? In 88.5L, the Qtc is ~.64 IIRC. I found the Shiva sounded very

>nice but was able to be bottomed out with ~250 watts. In my quest for
>ruggedness, I was not happy.

I'm sorry, are you saying you hade it in a sealed enclosure?
I just assumed ported which works well in a 5 cubic foot box, and
should not bottom out with that amount of power. At least that's my
understanding.

>A quick model sets the 140L enclosure at ~.56 Qtc. Both of these are
>without Vdr taken into account, take that how you will. Let me know
how
>it sounds, I seriously dig low Q systems.

If I understand correctly and this was a sealed encousre, then a .5 Qtc
is supposed to be transient perfect.
I'm planning on the 5 cubic ft. enclosure based on Adire's box
recomendations which show 3 box sizes with 5 cu. ft being the largest
and supposedly allows it to play louder before bottoming out and
providing the lowest f3.

I would have most likely added a second woofer with compound loading to
increase the effective Xmax.


After I get my tax return, I'll be broaching it to the wife.

> I'm looking to try mine in a sonotube, currently it's in a similar
size
> cabinet.


>My Shiva was handed down to the needy, my buddy with a shitty sub. I
>tried to steer him into the sonotube route for space considerations
and
>the small footprint, he didn't like the endcaps idea for some reason..

>ah well. He's happy with it in a ~.72 Qtc enclosure, its somewhat
rugged
>in this higher Q alignment.

>I'm impressed with XBL and won't be going back to normal drivers
without
>a fight.


Isn't XBL Adire's technology? I see it being referenced in other
manufacturer's products.
April 18, 2005 8:21:44 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

In article <1113750058.928380.129290@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
"still learning" <deskst49@peoplepc.com> wrote:

>
> >My Shiva did well until it was replaced with an Atlas12. No more
> >bottoming in the 88.5L sealed enclosure.
>
> That is a bit small for a Shiva. 140 liters would be more suitable.
>

Really? In 88.5L, the Qtc is ~.64 IIRC. I found the Shiva sounded very
nice but was able to be bottomed out with ~250 watts. In my quest for
ruggedness, I was not happy.

A quick model sets the 140L enclosure at ~.56 Qtc. Both of these are
without Vdr taken into account, take that how you will. Let me know how
it sounds, I seriously dig low Q systems.

> I'm looking to try mine in a sonotube, currently it's in a similar size
> cabinet.

My Shiva was handed down to the needy, my buddy with a shitty sub. I
tried to steer him into the sonotube route for space considerations and
the small footprint, he didn't like the endcaps idea for some reason..
ah well. He's happy with it in a ~.72 Qtc enclosure, its somewhat rugged
in this higher Q alignment.

I'm impressed with XBL and won't be going back to normal drivers without
a fight.

--
Cyrus

*coughcasaucedoprodigynetcough*
April 18, 2005 8:24:38 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

In article <1113780305.553511.49840@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
"still learning" <deskst49@peoplepc.com> wrote:

> Cyrus:
>
> I went to the Cult of the Infinitely Baffled and found it to be a very
> good place. Lots of useful info.
> Anybody into DIY and subs should pay a visit.
>
> Thanks.
>

Like ThomasW tries to instill in users/readers of the forum, pay it
forward somehow. Glad I could help.

--
Cyrus

*coughcasaucedoprodigynetcough*
April 18, 2005 11:50:48 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

In article <1113806958.364524.236720@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
"still learning" <deskst49@peoplepc.com> wrote:


> I'm sorry, are you saying you hade it in a sealed enclosure?
> I just assumed ported which works well in a 5 cubic foot box, and
> should not bottom out with that amount of power. At least that's my
> understanding.
>

Yep sealed. I don't dig bass reflex boxes, but its personal.

> If I understand correctly and this was a sealed encousre, then a .5 Qtc
> is supposed to be transient perfect.
> I'm planning on the 5 cubic ft. enclosure based on Adire's box
> recomendations which show 3 box sizes with 5 cu. ft being the largest
> and supposedly allows it to play louder before bottoming out and
> providing the lowest f3.

The large sealed enclosure gave me the sensitivity. Just not the output
at higher spl levels. But I understand thats asking a bit much from a
single 12" sub in a sealed enclosure.

>
> I would have most likely added a second woofer with compound loading to
> increase the effective Xmax.
>

More drivers is always a good upgrade route. There's no replacement for
displacement IMO.

>
> After I get my tax return, I'll be broaching it to the wife.
>

hehe This is a common hurdle for just about anybody into audio it seems.
Good luck.

>
> Isn't XBL Adire's technology? I see it being referenced in other
> manufacturer's products.
>

Adire licenses it out to whomever is willing to pay. Ascendant Audio, RE
Audio and Creative Sound Solutions to name a couple that I know of.

A byproduct of an XBL design is that there is more clearance between the
cone and the top plate of the motor structure even at high Xmax.. hence
harder to bottom out.

--
Cyrus

*coughcasaucedoprodigynetcough*
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 1:07:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

The Behringer EP1500 is a sound reinforcement amplifier, and presumably has
a fan in it. You should listen to it in your room with no signal before
buying, as you may find the fan noise irritating..

Behringer have just announced a new amplifier with no fan, the A500, list
price 240 dollars. It's not as powerful as the EP1500 - 500 watts bridged
into 8 ohms rather than 800.

Is EQ is a good idea for a single subwoofer? In my albeit limited
experience, LF sound intensity varies markedly as you move your head short
distances, due to room characteristics. You can't EQ that away, so it's not
clear that with a single subwoofer you can make the sound better with EQ
unless you stick to a single mall listening position.

Multiple subwoofers are another matter, as their room effects tend to smooth
each other out.

Tim Martin
April 29, 2005 2:20:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech (More info?)

In article <jPmce.2189$iQ1.193@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net>,
"Tim Martin" <tim2718281@ntlworld.com> wrote:

> The Behringer EP1500 is a sound reinforcement amplifier, and presumably has
> a fan in it. You should listen to it in your room with no signal before
> buying, as you may find the fan noise irritating..
>
> Behringer have just announced a new amplifier with no fan, the A500, list
> price 240 dollars. It's not as powerful as the EP1500 - 500 watts bridged
> into 8 ohms rather than 800.
>
> Is EQ is a good idea for a single subwoofer? In my albeit limited
> experience, LF sound intensity varies markedly as you move your head short
> distances, due to room characteristics. You can't EQ that away, so it's not
> clear that with a single subwoofer you can make the sound better with EQ
> unless you stick to a single mall listening position.

I concur, in untreated rooms there tends to be a very small sweet spot.
Or as sweet as one can get in an untreated room that is.

>
> Multiple subwoofers are another matter, as their room effects tend to smooth
> each other out.

Even if placed next to each other? Or better yet, in the same
enclosure/manifold?

I'm thinking if spaced apart, multiple subs may be a problem.

>
> Tim Martin
>
>

--
Cyrus

*coughcasaucedoprodigynetcough*
!