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Pirates and Free TV

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May 8, 2004 7:18:05 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.satellite.mpeg-dvb (More info?)

Why are there pirates?
..
1. Its a challenge and a hobby.
2. The price of TV is starting to get out of hand.
3. Competition is almost gone and the price will keep going up.

The record industry is in the same boat. They charge too much for what you
get then sue the people that d/l music illegally but are at the same time
being sued for NOT paying the people that make the music. Has been this way
since the record industry started. A few companies hold all the cards. An
independent study has proven that music pirating has little or NO effect on
the industry and in some cases helps it.
TV is getting the same way. A few companies means less competition and
higher prices. Cable prices in some states have risen 30% in 2 years for the
same package. A basic Dish on a stick package is up to $32 and 2/3 of the
stations are not worth watching. On the other hand most stations that
pirates get free they wouldn't pay for any way if they had no choice.

The real problem is what ever they charge we pay, so supply and demand.
Charge as much as the market will bear. If we didn't buy the price would
come down, many people wont pay so they pirate. It will never stop.
just my 2cents

I got my first C band system in the early 70's most I made. Not to pirate
but because it was fun, then the scrambled. They givith and they takeith
away.

More about : pirates free

Anonymous
May 8, 2004 7:20:34 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.satellite.mpeg-dvb (More info?)

NO!You're wrong!

The reason there are pirates is the the same as the reason why people
speed!Regardless of what speed the limit is raised to,or what speed I
do,it's NEVER enough for most people!

Why? Pride,rebellion and self-will + no fear of death + selfishness!

With signal piracy -add GREED!

NO matter how LOW the prices were satellite\cable pirates are cheap,greedy
and want something for nothing,AND are masters of self-delusion...ie:
rationalizing away "stealing" and "theft!"

If you're supposed to pay for it(that's why it's a 'subscription' service!)
and you're "hacking" the signal -you are STEALING!

--

"JustMe" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:109p5rcpg4fhr8e@corp.supernews.com...
> Why are there pirates?
> .
> 1. Its a challenge and a hobby.
> 2. The price of TV is starting to get out of hand.
> 3. Competition is almost gone and the price will keep going up.
>
> The record industry is in the same boat. They charge too much for what you
> get then sue the people that d/l music illegally but are at the same time
> being sued for NOT paying the people that make the music. Has been this
way
> since the record industry started. A few companies hold all the cards. An
> independent study has proven that music pirating has little or NO effect
on
> the industry and in some cases helps it.
> TV is getting the same way. A few companies means less competition and
> higher prices. Cable prices in some states have risen 30% in 2 years for
the
> same package. A basic Dish on a stick package is up to $32 and 2/3 of the
> stations are not worth watching. On the other hand most stations that
> pirates get free they wouldn't pay for any way if they had no choice.
>
> The real problem is what ever they charge we pay, so supply and demand.
> Charge as much as the market will bear. If we didn't buy the price would
> come down, many people wont pay so they pirate. It will never stop.
> just my 2cents
>
> I got my first C band system in the early 70's most I made. Not to pirate
> but because it was fun, then the scrambled. They givith and they takeith
> away.
>
>


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.679 / Virus Database: 441 - Release Date: 5/7/2004
May 8, 2004 7:20:35 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.satellite.mpeg-dvb (More info?)

So what do you call someone that pays for a station on one system like
C-Band and watches it on another like DTV? If you pay for it on C band then
it should be free on DTV and Dish and any other system you own. Still a
pirate?
What about the guy that backs up his DVD which is copywrited? The DCMA makes
that illegal. What will you do when the new TV's with the non copying chip
appear this fall to prevent recording of TV shows? That's part of the DCMA
also. They raise a flag and you cant record the show. What about Longhorn
Windows when it ever gets here, you wont even own it if you buy it and it
will record all your software serial numbers and check if their leagle. You
cant even legally back up a game or music CD you buy anymore, due to the
DCMA. So keep eating what they feed you. Watch your freedom go away.
ANYTHING copywrited can NOT be legally copied, PERIOD including if you
bought it. www.eff.org


"Valdivar" <rebelleader68@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:lranc.104215$ZJ5.2339794@news20.bellglobal.com...
> NO!You're wrong!
>
> The reason there are pirates is the the same as the reason why people
> speed!Regardless of what speed the limit is raised to,or what speed I
> do,it's NEVER enough for most people!
>
> Why? Pride,rebellion and self-will + no fear of death + selfishness!
>
> With signal piracy -add GREED!
>
> NO matter how LOW the prices were satellite\cable pirates are cheap,greedy
> and want something for nothing,AND are masters of self-delusion...ie:
> rationalizing away "stealing" and "theft!"
>
> If you're supposed to pay for it(that's why it's a 'subscription'
service!)
> and you're "hacking" the signal -you are STEALING!
>
> --
>
> "JustMe" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:109p5rcpg4fhr8e@corp.supernews.com...
> > Why are there pirates?
> > .
> > 1. Its a challenge and a hobby.
> > 2. The price of TV is starting to get out of hand.
> > 3. Competition is almost gone and the price will keep going up.
> >
> > The record industry is in the same boat. They charge too much for what
you
> > get then sue the people that d/l music illegally but are at the same
time
> > being sued for NOT paying the people that make the music. Has been this
> way
> > since the record industry started. A few companies hold all the cards.
An
> > independent study has proven that music pirating has little or NO effect
> on
> > the industry and in some cases helps it.
> > TV is getting the same way. A few companies means less competition
and
> > higher prices. Cable prices in some states have risen 30% in 2 years for
> the
> > same package. A basic Dish on a stick package is up to $32 and 2/3 of
the
> > stations are not worth watching. On the other hand most stations that
> > pirates get free they wouldn't pay for any way if they had no choice.
> >
> > The real problem is what ever they charge we pay, so supply and demand.
> > Charge as much as the market will bear. If we didn't buy the price would
> > come down, many people wont pay so they pirate. It will never stop.
> > just my 2cents
> >
> > I got my first C band system in the early 70's most I made. Not to
pirate
> > but because it was fun, then the scrambled. They givith and they takeith
> > away.
> >
> >
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.679 / Virus Database: 441 - Release Date: 5/7/2004
>
>
Related resources
Anonymous
May 9, 2004 12:16:37 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.satellite.mpeg-dvb (More info?)

I call them thieves.

That person did not pay for the DTV feed. If you buy Microsoft
Off ice at Best Buy that does not give you the right to go to
Circuit City and pull a box off the shelf and walk out without
paying.




"JustMe" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:109qflkb68d3t2f@corp.supernews.com...
| So what do you call someone that pays for a station on one system like
| C-Band and watches it on another like DTV? If you pay for it on C band then
| it should be free on DTV and Dish and any other system you own. Still a
| pirate?
May 9, 2004 12:24:07 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.satellite.mpeg-dvb (More info?)

Stealing a box from Wal-Mart is not the same thing as making a backup copy
of something you already own. I am NOT advocating being a pirate I'm just
trying to enlighten people that day by day more and more things we used to
take for granted are now illegal. I know many people like my son that has
two small kids and has bought many DVD's, the kids scratch them and he has
to buy a new DVD. Although he has made backup copies of the best ones, he IS
breaking the law. Fair use NO longer protects you for making a back up copy
of something you bought. It is being challenged but its still illegal. Soon
HDTV will be illegal to copy, IF the stations elect to raise the broadcast
flag.

Yes there is a difference in the DTV feed because you cant subscribe to just
one station. However if you buy the programming content to watch, why
shouldn't it be leagle to watch it on any system? On the subject of MS
office, If you own several computers why should you have to buy Multiple
copies? You can only use one at the same time. If you read the small prin.
You must uninstall it from one computer before you use it on another. The
same for Windows and with longhorn it will be enforced.

What I'm saying is that we just sit and let the corporations do what ever
they want and we just shell out the money to pay for it. Go to www.eff.org
and read the DMCA.

A few months ago a company that was making replacement garage door openers
was sued by Genie because their codes were property. They claimed that it
was a violation of the DCMA that another company copy their copywrited
property and make a universal remote. They lost thank God. This was not the
first or last that some company tried to use the DMCA to enforce a copy
protected device.

The DCMA has superceded the fair use act.


"DRLev" <fake,@ddress.net> wrote in message
news:Febnc.63585$hR1.3189@fe2.texas.rr.com...
> I call them thieves.
>
> That person did not pay for the DTV feed. If you buy Microsoft
> Off ice at Best Buy that does not give you the right to go to
> Circuit City and pull a box off the shelf and walk out without
> paying.
>
>
>
>
> "JustMe" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:109qflkb68d3t2f@corp.supernews.com...
> | So what do you call someone that pays for a station on one system like
> | C-Band and watches it on another like DTV? If you pay for it on C band
then
> | it should be free on DTV and Dish and any other system you own. Still a
> | pirate?
>
>
May 9, 2004 1:17:41 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.satellite.mpeg-dvb (More info?)

go away express view worker
"Valdivar" <rebelleader68@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:lranc.104215$ZJ5.2339794@news20.bellglobal.com...
> NO!You're wrong!
>
> The reason there are pirates is the the same as the reason why people
> speed!Regardless of what speed the limit is raised to,or what speed I
> do,it's NEVER enough for most people!
>
> Why? Pride,rebellion and self-will + no fear of death + selfishness!
>
> With signal piracy -add GREED!
>
> NO matter how LOW the prices were satellite\cable pirates are cheap,greedy
> and want something for nothing,AND are masters of self-delusion...ie:
> rationalizing away "stealing" and "theft!"
>
> If you're supposed to pay for it(that's why it's a 'subscription'
service!)
> and you're "hacking" the signal -you are STEALING!
>
> --
>
> "JustMe" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:109p5rcpg4fhr8e@corp.supernews.com...
> > Why are there pirates?
> > .
> > 1. Its a challenge and a hobby.
> > 2. The price of TV is starting to get out of hand.
> > 3. Competition is almost gone and the price will keep going up.
> >
> > The record industry is in the same boat. They charge too much for what
you
> > get then sue the people that d/l music illegally but are at the same
time
> > being sued for NOT paying the people that make the music. Has been this
> way
> > since the record industry started. A few companies hold all the cards.
An
> > independent study has proven that music pirating has little or NO effect
> on
> > the industry and in some cases helps it.
> > TV is getting the same way. A few companies means less competition
and
> > higher prices. Cable prices in some states have risen 30% in 2 years for
> the
> > same package. A basic Dish on a stick package is up to $32 and 2/3 of
the
> > stations are not worth watching. On the other hand most stations that
> > pirates get free they wouldn't pay for any way if they had no choice.
> >
> > The real problem is what ever they charge we pay, so supply and demand.
> > Charge as much as the market will bear. If we didn't buy the price would
> > come down, many people wont pay so they pirate. It will never stop.
> > just my 2cents
> >
> > I got my first C band system in the early 70's most I made. Not to
pirate
> > but because it was fun, then the scrambled. They givith and they takeith
> > away.
> >
> >
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.679 / Virus Database: 441 - Release Date: 5/7/2004
>
>
May 9, 2004 1:17:42 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.satellite.mpeg-dvb (More info?)

Yes you can add Greed. That's the main reason, monopolies beget Greed and
Greed begets price increases and price increases begets piracy.
What would be the incentive to pirate a music CD if you could buy it for
$5.00. Sure you couldn't stomp out 100% of piracy but it wouldn't be worth
the time. Its not the big Pirates the get caught its the guy that shares
songs with his friends. Why is it legal to broadcast music on the radio to
millions of people but one person cant copy and give that same song to his
friend, even if he recorded it off the radio?

Do you really think that basic DTV or Dish is worth $32 per month? Was it
really necessary for cable to have increased 100's of percent in the last 10
years? Is that because of cost or Greed? The less completion the higher the
price. If Comcast succeeds in buying up all the cable companies and DTV and
Dish. Do you think your bill will come down? Do you think if one person owns
all the completion that it would be necessary to raise prices ? However,
they will. Example. Tech TV was free and seemed to be doing good. Now its
owned by Comcast and if you will be able to get it at all you will have to
pay for it on cable or DTV or Dish. I doubt it will remain free on mpeg2 for
long.

"steve" <nyob@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:V7cnc.460525$2oI1.18580@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
> go away express view worker
> "Valdivar" <rebelleader68@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:lranc.104215$ZJ5.2339794@news20.bellglobal.com...
> > NO!You're wrong!
> >
> > The reason there are pirates is the the same as the reason why people
> > speed!Regardless of what speed the limit is raised to,or what speed I
> > do,it's NEVER enough for most people!
> >
> > Why? Pride,rebellion and self-will + no fear of death + selfishness!
> >
> > With signal piracy -add GREED!
> >
> > NO matter how LOW the prices were satellite\cable pirates are
cheap,greedy
> > and want something for nothing,AND are masters of self-delusion...ie:
> > rationalizing away "stealing" and "theft!"
> >
> > If you're supposed to pay for it(that's why it's a 'subscription'
> service!)
> > and you're "hacking" the signal -you are STEALING!
> >
> > --
> >
> > "JustMe" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> > news:109p5rcpg4fhr8e@corp.supernews.com...
> > > Why are there pirates?
> > > .
> > > 1. Its a challenge and a hobby.
> > > 2. The price of TV is starting to get out of hand.
> > > 3. Competition is almost gone and the price will keep going up.
> > >
> > > The record industry is in the same boat. They charge too much for what
> you
> > > get then sue the people that d/l music illegally but are at the same
> time
> > > being sued for NOT paying the people that make the music. Has been
this
> > way
> > > since the record industry started. A few companies hold all the cards.
> An
> > > independent study has proven that music pirating has little or NO
effect
> > on
> > > the industry and in some cases helps it.
> > > TV is getting the same way. A few companies means less competition
> and
> > > higher prices. Cable prices in some states have risen 30% in 2 years
for
> > the
> > > same package. A basic Dish on a stick package is up to $32 and 2/3 of
> the
> > > stations are not worth watching. On the other hand most stations that
> > > pirates get free they wouldn't pay for any way if they had no choice.
> > >
> > > The real problem is what ever they charge we pay, so supply and
demand.
> > > Charge as much as the market will bear. If we didn't buy the price
would
> > > come down, many people wont pay so they pirate. It will never stop.
> > > just my 2cents
> > >
> > > I got my first C band system in the early 70's most I made. Not to
> pirate
> > > but because it was fun, then the scrambled. They givith and they
takeith
> > > away.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > Version: 6.0.679 / Virus Database: 441 - Release Date: 5/7/2004
> >
> >
>
>
Anonymous
May 9, 2004 8:13:19 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.satellite.mpeg-dvb (More info?)

And I wasn't referring to the DVDs You had said

==
| So what do you call someone that pays for a station on one system like
| C-Band and watches it on another like DTV? If you pay for it on C band then
| it should be free on DTV and Dish and any other system you own. Still a
| pirate?
==

Which is the rationalization that a theif may use.
Anonymous
May 9, 2004 5:27:14 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.satellite.mpeg-dvb (More info?)

On Sat, 8 May 2004 20:24:07 -0500, "JustMe" <nobody@nowhere.com>
wrote:

>Stealing a box from Wal-Mart is not the same thing as making a backup copy
>of something you already own.

But stealing a satellite service is.

>I am NOT advocating being a pirate I'm just
>trying to enlighten people that day by day more and more things we used to
>take for granted are now illegal. I know many people like my son that has
>two small kids and has bought many DVD's, the kids scratch them and he has
>to buy a new DVD. Although he has made backup copies of the best ones, he IS
>breaking the law. Fair use NO longer protects you for making a back up copy
>of something you bought. It is being challenged but its still illegal. Soon
>HDTV will be illegal to copy, IF the stations elect to raise the broadcast
>flag.
>

Fair use is one thing (allowing you to make copies of content you
already own).

Stealing satellite is accessing programming you have not paid for.

>Yes there is a difference in the DTV feed because you cant subscribe to just
>one station. However if you buy the programming content to watch, why
>shouldn't it be leagle to watch it on any system?

Because you boug it on that system, and DirecTV has the ability to
control it.

> On the subject of MS
>office, If you own several computers why should you have to buy Multiple
>copies? You can only use one at the same time. If you read the small prin.
>You must uninstall it from one computer before you use it on another. The
>same for Windows and with longhorn it will be enforced.
>

You can, if one system is a laptop.

>What I'm saying is that we just sit and let the corporations do what ever
>they want and we just shell out the money to pay for it. Go to www.eff.org
>and read the DMCA.
>

They don't advocate theft of a paid service though.

>A few months ago a company that was making replacement garage door openers
>was sued by Genie because their codes were property. They claimed that it
>was a violation of the DCMA that another company copy their copywrited
>property and make a universal remote. They lost thank God. This was not the
>first or last that some company tried to use the DMCA to enforce a copy
>protected device.
>
>The DCMA has superceded the fair use act.
>
>
>"DRLev" <fake,@ddress.net> wrote in message
>news:Febnc.63585$hR1.3189@fe2.texas.rr.com...
>> I call them thieves.
>>
>> That person did not pay for the DTV feed. If you buy Microsoft
>> Off ice at Best Buy that does not give you the right to go to
>> Circuit City and pull a box off the shelf and walk out without
>> paying.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "JustMe" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>> news:109qflkb68d3t2f@corp.supernews.com...
>> | So what do you call someone that pays for a station on one system like
>> | C-Band and watches it on another like DTV? If you pay for it on C band
>then
>> | it should be free on DTV and Dish and any other system you own. Still a
>> | pirate?
>>
>>
>
Anonymous
May 10, 2004 2:06:33 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.satellite.mpeg-dvb (More info?)

In the case of computer software,what "copying" rights you have and how many
computers you can use it on depends on the "software license" that comes
with the software.Most software makers allow you to make a backup for
personal\emergency use -bot ONLY for one computer UNLESS the "software
license agreement" says otherwise.Not for anybody else,either!

As for ANY television\radio transmission,it doesn't matter where it
originates from,or how you are receiving it,IF it is a subscrition service
you are SUPPOSED to pay for it!

I get so sick and tired of the whining and rangling I read from TV pirates
who bitch and moan about the prices and give us a big political diatribe
about satellite companies and their huge profits...ad naseam...to JUSTIFY(in
their own minds if nothing else -what their conscience might tell
them[somehow I doubt it!] is plain wrong!)...stealing and theft!

There is NO excuse:

* not "the challenge of hacking the system"
* not "testing"
* not "getting it without paying for it"

and the host of other "rationalizations" and "self-justifying" terms used to
excuse away "Theft of signals!!!"



--
"JustMe" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:109r20i62unlkfe@corp.supernews.com...
> Stealing a box from Wal-Mart is not the same thing as making a backup copy
> of something you already own. I am NOT advocating being a pirate I'm just
> trying to enlighten people that day by day more and more things we used to
> take for granted are now illegal. I know many people like my son that has
> two small kids and has bought many DVD's, the kids scratch them and he has
> to buy a new DVD. Although he has made backup copies of the best ones, he
IS
> breaking the law. Fair use NO longer protects you for making a back up
copy
> of something you bought. It is being challenged but its still illegal.
Soon
> HDTV will be illegal to copy, IF the stations elect to raise the broadcast
> flag.
>
> Yes there is a difference in the DTV feed because you cant subscribe to
just
> one station. However if you buy the programming content to watch, why
> shouldn't it be leagle to watch it on any system? On the subject of MS
> office, If you own several computers why should you have to buy Multiple
> copies? You can only use one at the same time. If you read the small prin.
> You must uninstall it from one computer before you use it on another. The
> same for Windows and with longhorn it will be enforced.
>
> What I'm saying is that we just sit and let the corporations do what ever
> they want and we just shell out the money to pay for it. Go to www.eff.org
> and read the DMCA.
>
> A few months ago a company that was making replacement garage door openers
> was sued by Genie because their codes were property. They claimed that it
> was a violation of the DCMA that another company copy their copywrited
> property and make a universal remote. They lost thank God. This was not
the
> first or last that some company tried to use the DMCA to enforce a copy
> protected device.
>
> The DCMA has superceded the fair use act.
>
>
> "DRLev" <fake,@ddress.net> wrote in message
> news:Febnc.63585$hR1.3189@fe2.texas.rr.com...
> > I call them thieves.
> >
> > That person did not pay for the DTV feed. If you buy Microsoft
> > Off ice at Best Buy that does not give you the right to go to
> > Circuit City and pull a box off the shelf and walk out without
> > paying.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "JustMe" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> > news:109qflkb68d3t2f@corp.supernews.com...
> > | So what do you call someone that pays for a station on one system like
> > | C-Band and watches it on another like DTV? If you pay for it on C band
> then
> > | it should be free on DTV and Dish and any other system you own. Still
a
> > | pirate?
> >
> >
>
>


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.679 / Virus Database: 441 - Release Date: 5/7/2004
Anonymous
May 10, 2004 2:14:30 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.satellite.mpeg-dvb (More info?)

Did you come here to talk about satellite tv,or to whine about how unfair
the world is?

Dishnet,DTV,Microsoft,telephone companies and others are bring us a
service.In a fair consumer market there is competition and comsumers can
CHOOSE if,when,where and how they buy a product,or service!

Regardless,of what anybody else is doing EACH PERSON is responsible to
behave a lawful manner!If everybody takes the law into his own hands the
result is "chaos."

Get a life!

--

"JustMe" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:109r2fb5ooa9c01@corp.supernews.com...
> Yes you can add Greed. That's the main reason, monopolies beget Greed and
> Greed begets price increases and price increases begets piracy.
> What would be the incentive to pirate a music CD if you could buy it for
> $5.00. Sure you couldn't stomp out 100% of piracy but it wouldn't be worth
> the time. Its not the big Pirates the get caught its the guy that shares
> songs with his friends. Why is it legal to broadcast music on the radio to
> millions of people but one person cant copy and give that same song to his
> friend, even if he recorded it off the radio?
>
> Do you really think that basic DTV or Dish is worth $32 per month? Was it
> really necessary for cable to have increased 100's of percent in the last
10
> years? Is that because of cost or Greed? The less completion the higher
the
> price. If Comcast succeeds in buying up all the cable companies and DTV
and
> Dish. Do you think your bill will come down? Do you think if one person
owns
> all the completion that it would be necessary to raise prices ? However,
> they will. Example. Tech TV was free and seemed to be doing good. Now its
> owned by Comcast and if you will be able to get it at all you will have to
> pay for it on cable or DTV or Dish. I doubt it will remain free on mpeg2
for
> long.
>
> "steve" <nyob@rogers.com> wrote in message
> news:V7cnc.460525$2oI1.18580@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
> > go away express view worker
> > "Valdivar" <rebelleader68@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:lranc.104215$ZJ5.2339794@news20.bellglobal.com...
> > > NO!You're wrong!
> > >
> > > The reason there are pirates is the the same as the reason why people
> > > speed!Regardless of what speed the limit is raised to,or what speed I
> > > do,it's NEVER enough for most people!
> > >
> > > Why? Pride,rebellion and self-will + no fear of death + selfishness!
> > >
> > > With signal piracy -add GREED!
> > >
> > > NO matter how LOW the prices were satellite\cable pirates are
> cheap,greedy
> > > and want something for nothing,AND are masters of self-delusion...ie:
> > > rationalizing away "stealing" and "theft!"
> > >
> > > If you're supposed to pay for it(that's why it's a 'subscription'
> > service!)
> > > and you're "hacking" the signal -you are STEALING!
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > "JustMe" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> > > news:109p5rcpg4fhr8e@corp.supernews.com...
> > > > Why are there pirates?
> > > > .
> > > > 1. Its a challenge and a hobby.
> > > > 2. The price of TV is starting to get out of hand.
> > > > 3. Competition is almost gone and the price will keep going up.
> > > >
> > > > The record industry is in the same boat. They charge too much for
what
> > you
> > > > get then sue the people that d/l music illegally but are at the same
> > time
> > > > being sued for NOT paying the people that make the music. Has been
> this
> > > way
> > > > since the record industry started. A few companies hold all the
cards.
> > An
> > > > independent study has proven that music pirating has little or NO
> effect
> > > on
> > > > the industry and in some cases helps it.
> > > > TV is getting the same way. A few companies means less
competition
> > and
> > > > higher prices. Cable prices in some states have risen 30% in 2 years
> for
> > > the
> > > > same package. A basic Dish on a stick package is up to $32 and 2/3
of
> > the
> > > > stations are not worth watching. On the other hand most stations
that
> > > > pirates get free they wouldn't pay for any way if they had no
choice.
> > > >
> > > > The real problem is what ever they charge we pay, so supply and
> demand.
> > > > Charge as much as the market will bear. If we didn't buy the price
> would
> > > > come down, many people wont pay so they pirate. It will never stop.
> > > > just my 2cents
> > > >
> > > > I got my first C band system in the early 70's most I made. Not to
> > pirate
> > > > but because it was fun, then the scrambled. They givith and they
> takeith
> > > > away.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---
> > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > > Version: 6.0.679 / Virus Database: 441 - Release Date: 5/7/2004
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.679 / Virus Database: 441 - Release Date: 5/7/2004
Anonymous
May 10, 2004 2:15:51 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.satellite.mpeg-dvb (More info?)

I do not work for ANY satellite TV company.

I am an honest law abiding citizen -who PAYS for his satellite tv!

--
"steve" <nyob@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:V7cnc.460525$2oI1.18580@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
> go away express view worker
> "Valdivar" <rebelleader68@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:lranc.104215$ZJ5.2339794@news20.bellglobal.com...
> > NO!You're wrong!
> >
> > The reason there are pirates is the the same as the reason why people
> > speed!Regardless of what speed the limit is raised to,or what speed I
> > do,it's NEVER enough for most people!
> >
> > Why? Pride,rebellion and self-will + no fear of death + selfishness!
> >
> > With signal piracy -add GREED!
> >
> > NO matter how LOW the prices were satellite\cable pirates are
cheap,greedy
> > and want something for nothing,AND are masters of self-delusion...ie:
> > rationalizing away "stealing" and "theft!"
> >
> > If you're supposed to pay for it(that's why it's a 'subscription'
> service!)
> > and you're "hacking" the signal -you are STEALING!
> >
> > --
> >
> > "JustMe" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> > news:109p5rcpg4fhr8e@corp.supernews.com...
> > > Why are there pirates?
> > > .
> > > 1. Its a challenge and a hobby.
> > > 2. The price of TV is starting to get out of hand.
> > > 3. Competition is almost gone and the price will keep going up.
> > >
> > > The record industry is in the same boat. They charge too much for what
> you
> > > get then sue the people that d/l music illegally but are at the same
> time
> > > being sued for NOT paying the people that make the music. Has been
this
> > way
> > > since the record industry started. A few companies hold all the cards.
> An
> > > independent study has proven that music pirating has little or NO
effect
> > on
> > > the industry and in some cases helps it.
> > > TV is getting the same way. A few companies means less competition
> and
> > > higher prices. Cable prices in some states have risen 30% in 2 years
for
> > the
> > > same package. A basic Dish on a stick package is up to $32 and 2/3 of
> the
> > > stations are not worth watching. On the other hand most stations that
> > > pirates get free they wouldn't pay for any way if they had no choice.
> > >
> > > The real problem is what ever they charge we pay, so supply and
demand.
> > > Charge as much as the market will bear. If we didn't buy the price
would
> > > come down, many people wont pay so they pirate. It will never stop.
> > > just my 2cents
> > >
> > > I got my first C band system in the early 70's most I made. Not to
> pirate
> > > but because it was fun, then the scrambled. They givith and they
takeith
> > > away.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > Version: 6.0.679 / Virus Database: 441 - Release Date: 5/7/2004
> >
> >
>
>


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.679 / Virus Database: 441 - Release Date: 5/7/2004
May 10, 2004 4:53:39 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.satellite.mpeg-dvb (More info?)

I never advocated stealing anything. You put words in my mouth. I only
brought the point that you pay for the content just the same as a CD or DVD.
You claim I'm not paying for the content but the service, that's fine but
don't say I advocate stealing.

"Gary Tait" <classicsat@yahoo.cominvalid> wrote in message
news:llps90tv77jbqhjhe6i8a0vn9ml4d2d3ge@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 8 May 2004 20:24:07 -0500, "JustMe" <nobody@nowhere.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Stealing a box from Wal-Mart is not the same thing as making a backup
copy
> >of something you already own.
>
> But stealing a satellite service is.
>
> >I am NOT advocating being a pirate I'm just
> >trying to enlighten people that day by day more and more things we used
to
> >take for granted are now illegal. I know many people like my son that has
> >two small kids and has bought many DVD's, the kids scratch them and he
has
> >to buy a new DVD. Although he has made backup copies of the best ones, he
IS
> >breaking the law. Fair use NO longer protects you for making a back up
copy
> >of something you bought. It is being challenged but its still illegal.
Soon
> >HDTV will be illegal to copy, IF the stations elect to raise the
broadcast
> >flag.
> >
>
> Fair use is one thing (allowing you to make copies of content you
> already own).
>
> Stealing satellite is accessing programming you have not paid for.
>
> >Yes there is a difference in the DTV feed because you cant subscribe to
just
> >one station. However if you buy the programming content to watch, why
> >shouldn't it be leagle to watch it on any system?
>
> Because you boug it on that system, and DirecTV has the ability to
> control it.
>
> > On the subject of MS
> >office, If you own several computers why should you have to buy Multiple
> >copies? You can only use one at the same time. If you read the small
prin.
> >You must uninstall it from one computer before you use it on another. The
> >same for Windows and with longhorn it will be enforced.
> >
>
> You can, if one system is a laptop.
>
> >What I'm saying is that we just sit and let the corporations do what ever
> >they want and we just shell out the money to pay for it. Go to
www.eff.org
> >and read the DMCA.
> >
>
> They don't advocate theft of a paid service though.
>
> >A few months ago a company that was making replacement garage door
openers
> >was sued by Genie because their codes were property. They claimed that it
> >was a violation of the DCMA that another company copy their copywrited
> >property and make a universal remote. They lost thank God. This was not
the
> >first or last that some company tried to use the DMCA to enforce a copy
> >protected device.
> >
> >The DCMA has superceded the fair use act.
> >
> >
> >"DRLev" <fake,@ddress.net> wrote in message
> >news:Febnc.63585$hR1.3189@fe2.texas.rr.com...
> >> I call them thieves.
> >>
> >> That person did not pay for the DTV feed. If you buy Microsoft
> >> Off ice at Best Buy that does not give you the right to go to
> >> Circuit City and pull a box off the shelf and walk out without
> >> paying.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> "JustMe" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> >> news:109qflkb68d3t2f@corp.supernews.com...
> >> | So what do you call someone that pays for a station on one system
like
> >> | C-Band and watches it on another like DTV? If you pay for it on C
band
> >then
> >> | it should be free on DTV and Dish and any other system you own. Still
a
> >> | pirate?
> >>
> >>
> >
>
Anonymous
May 10, 2004 1:58:01 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.satellite.mpeg-dvb (More info?)

You're trying to enlighten people(as you say) that BIG business is ripping
us off....

While you say,you do NOT advocate piracy....your very words seem to suggest
that since we are being treated so unfairly that would justify stealing of
satellite signals....although of course....you don't advocate it!

To put it more plainly,your words may encourage others to steal and that's
worse than stealing yourself!

--

"JustMe" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:109u64fqobpl083@corp.supernews.com...
> I never advocated stealing anything. You put words in my mouth. I only
> brought the point that you pay for the content just the same as a CD or
DVD.
> You claim I'm not paying for the content but the service, that's fine but
> don't say I advocate stealing.
>
> "Gary Tait" <classicsat@yahoo.cominvalid> wrote in message
> news:llps90tv77jbqhjhe6i8a0vn9ml4d2d3ge@4ax.com...
> > On Sat, 8 May 2004 20:24:07 -0500, "JustMe" <nobody@nowhere.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >Stealing a box from Wal-Mart is not the same thing as making a backup
> copy
> > >of something you already own.
> >
> > But stealing a satellite service is.
> >
> > >I am NOT advocating being a pirate I'm just
> > >trying to enlighten people that day by day more and more things we used
> to
> > >take for granted are now illegal. I know many people like my son that
has
> > >two small kids and has bought many DVD's, the kids scratch them and he
> has
> > >to buy a new DVD. Although he has made backup copies of the best ones,
he
> IS
> > >breaking the law. Fair use NO longer protects you for making a back up
> copy
> > >of something you bought. It is being challenged but its still illegal.
> Soon
> > >HDTV will be illegal to copy, IF the stations elect to raise the
> broadcast
> > >flag.
> > >
> >
> > Fair use is one thing (allowing you to make copies of content you
> > already own).
> >
> > Stealing satellite is accessing programming you have not paid for.
> >
> > >Yes there is a difference in the DTV feed because you cant subscribe to
> just
> > >one station. However if you buy the programming content to watch, why
> > >shouldn't it be leagle to watch it on any system?
> >
> > Because you boug it on that system, and DirecTV has the ability to
> > control it.
> >
> > > On the subject of MS
> > >office, If you own several computers why should you have to buy
Multiple
> > >copies? You can only use one at the same time. If you read the small
> prin.
> > >You must uninstall it from one computer before you use it on another.
The
> > >same for Windows and with longhorn it will be enforced.
> > >
> >
> > You can, if one system is a laptop.
> >
> > >What I'm saying is that we just sit and let the corporations do what
ever
> > >they want and we just shell out the money to pay for it. Go to
> www.eff.org
> > >and read the DMCA.
> > >
> >
> > They don't advocate theft of a paid service though.
> >
> > >A few months ago a company that was making replacement garage door
> openers
> > >was sued by Genie because their codes were property. They claimed that
it
> > >was a violation of the DCMA that another company copy their copywrited
> > >property and make a universal remote. They lost thank God. This was not
> the
> > >first or last that some company tried to use the DMCA to enforce a copy
> > >protected device.
> > >
> > >The DCMA has superceded the fair use act.
> > >
> > >
> > >"DRLev" <fake,@ddress.net> wrote in message
> > >news:Febnc.63585$hR1.3189@fe2.texas.rr.com...
> > >> I call them thieves.
> > >>
> > >> That person did not pay for the DTV feed. If you buy Microsoft
> > >> Off ice at Best Buy that does not give you the right to go to
> > >> Circuit City and pull a box off the shelf and walk out without
> > >> paying.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> "JustMe" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> > >> news:109qflkb68d3t2f@corp.supernews.com...
> > >> | So what do you call someone that pays for a station on one system
> like
> > >> | C-Band and watches it on another like DTV? If you pay for it on C
> band
> > >then
> > >> | it should be free on DTV and Dish and any other system you own.
Still
> a
> > >> | pirate?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> >
>
>


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.679 / Virus Database: 441 - Release Date: 5/7/2004
May 10, 2004 7:05:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.satellite.mpeg-dvb (More info?)

Actually what I would like to see is people boycotting companies that
charge way too much for what you get. However you know that wound never
happen. Because someone will always pay what ever they charge. These are the
days of $200 sneakers and $50 T-Shirts, how many do you have?.
Last time I looked this was still a free country and words were still
free. However I do realize that if one's words are not what someone else
wants to here they think they have a right to threaten the person saying
what they don't want to here. You make up your own mine about what I said.
If my words encourage others to pirate than I guess I should be put in jail
for having an opinion that doesn't agree with yours. Burnt any books lately?
I bet you cant wait for November to help re-elect Bush. Renew the DCMA but
make it stronger. Renew the Patriot act and make it stronger. Maybe then I
wont be able to say anything you don't agree without gong to jail.

"Valdivar" <rebelleader68@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7VLnc.6675$FH5.344449@news20.bellglobal.com...
> You're trying to enlighten people(as you say) that BIG business is ripping
> us off....
>
> While you say,you do NOT advocate piracy....your very words seem to
suggest
> that since we are being treated so unfairly that would justify stealing of
> satellite signals....although of course....you don't advocate it!
>
> To put it more plainly,your words may encourage others to steal and that's
> worse than stealing yourself!
>
> --
>
> "JustMe" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:109u64fqobpl083@corp.supernews.com...
> > I never advocated stealing anything. You put words in my mouth. I only
> > brought the point that you pay for the content just the same as a CD or
> DVD.
> > You claim I'm not paying for the content but the service, that's fine
but
> > don't say I advocate stealing.
> >
> > "Gary Tait" <classicsat@yahoo.cominvalid> wrote in message
> > news:llps90tv77jbqhjhe6i8a0vn9ml4d2d3ge@4ax.com...
> > > On Sat, 8 May 2004 20:24:07 -0500, "JustMe" <nobody@nowhere.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >Stealing a box from Wal-Mart is not the same thing as making a backup
> > copy
> > > >of something you already own.
> > >
> > > But stealing a satellite service is.
> > >
> > > >I am NOT advocating being a pirate I'm just
> > > >trying to enlighten people that day by day more and more things we
used
> > to
> > > >take for granted are now illegal. I know many people like my son that
> has
> > > >two small kids and has bought many DVD's, the kids scratch them and
he
> > has
> > > >to buy a new DVD. Although he has made backup copies of the best
ones,
> he
> > IS
> > > >breaking the law. Fair use NO longer protects you for making a back
up
> > copy
> > > >of something you bought. It is being challenged but its still
illegal.
> > Soon
> > > >HDTV will be illegal to copy, IF the stations elect to raise the
> > broadcast
> > > >flag.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Fair use is one thing (allowing you to make copies of content you
> > > already own).
> > >
> > > Stealing satellite is accessing programming you have not paid for.
> > >
> > > >Yes there is a difference in the DTV feed because you cant subscribe
to
> > just
> > > >one station. However if you buy the programming content to watch, why
> > > >shouldn't it be leagle to watch it on any system?
> > >
> > > Because you boug it on that system, and DirecTV has the ability to
> > > control it.
> > >
> > > > On the subject of MS
> > > >office, If you own several computers why should you have to buy
> Multiple
> > > >copies? You can only use one at the same time. If you read the small
> > prin.
> > > >You must uninstall it from one computer before you use it on another.
> The
> > > >same for Windows and with longhorn it will be enforced.
> > > >
> > >
> > > You can, if one system is a laptop.
> > >
> > > >What I'm saying is that we just sit and let the corporations do what
> ever
> > > >they want and we just shell out the money to pay for it. Go to
> > www.eff.org
> > > >and read the DMCA.
> > > >
> > >
> > > They don't advocate theft of a paid service though.
> > >
> > > >A few months ago a company that was making replacement garage door
> > openers
> > > >was sued by Genie because their codes were property. They claimed
that
> it
> > > >was a violation of the DCMA that another company copy their
copywrited
> > > >property and make a universal remote. They lost thank God. This was
not
> > the
> > > >first or last that some company tried to use the DMCA to enforce a
copy
> > > >protected device.
> > > >
> > > >The DCMA has superceded the fair use act.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >"DRLev" <fake,@ddress.net> wrote in message
> > > >news:Febnc.63585$hR1.3189@fe2.texas.rr.com...
> > > >> I call them thieves.
> > > >>
> > > >> That person did not pay for the DTV feed. If you buy Microsoft
> > > >> Off ice at Best Buy that does not give you the right to go to
> > > >> Circuit City and pull a box off the shelf and walk out without
> > > >> paying.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> "JustMe" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> > > >> news:109qflkb68d3t2f@corp.supernews.com...
> > > >> | So what do you call someone that pays for a station on one system
> > like
> > > >> | C-Band and watches it on another like DTV? If you pay for it on C
> > band
> > > >then
> > > >> | it should be free on DTV and Dish and any other system you own.
> Still
> > a
> > > >> | pirate?
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.679 / Virus Database: 441 - Release Date: 5/7/2004
>
>
Anonymous
May 10, 2004 8:20:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.satellite.mpeg-dvb (More info?)

All due respects,your post has nothing to do with satellite tv.Best to put
it in a political,or some other more appropriate forum!

"JustMe" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:109vo1ajk7poece@corp.supernews.com...
> Actually what I would like to see is people boycotting companies that
> charge way too much for what you get. However you know that wound never
> happen. Because someone will always pay what ever they charge. These are
the
> days of $200 sneakers and $50 T-Shirts, how many do you have?.
> Last time I looked this was still a free country and words were still
> free. However I do realize that if one's words are not what someone else
> wants to here they think they have a right to threaten the person saying
> what they don't want to here. You make up your own mine about what I said.
> If my words encourage others to pirate than I guess I should be put in
jail
> for having an opinion that doesn't agree with yours. Burnt any books
lately?
> I bet you cant wait for November to help re-elect Bush. Renew the DCMA but
> make it stronger. Renew the Patriot act and make it stronger. Maybe then I
> wont be able to say anything you don't agree without gong to jail.
>
> "Valdivar" <rebelleader68@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:7VLnc.6675$FH5.344449@news20.bellglobal.com...
> > You're trying to enlighten people(as you say) that BIG business is
ripping
> > us off....
> >
> > While you say,you do NOT advocate piracy....your very words seem to
> suggest
> > that since we are being treated so unfairly that would justify stealing
of
> > satellite signals....although of course....you don't advocate it!
> >
> > To put it more plainly,your words may encourage others to steal and
that's
> > worse than stealing yourself!
> >
> > --
> >
> > "JustMe" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> > news:109u64fqobpl083@corp.supernews.com...
> > > I never advocated stealing anything. You put words in my mouth. I only
> > > brought the point that you pay for the content just the same as a CD
or
> > DVD.
> > > You claim I'm not paying for the content but the service, that's fine
> but
> > > don't say I advocate stealing.
> > >
> > > "Gary Tait" <classicsat@yahoo.cominvalid> wrote in message
> > > news:llps90tv77jbqhjhe6i8a0vn9ml4d2d3ge@4ax.com...
> > > > On Sat, 8 May 2004 20:24:07 -0500, "JustMe" <nobody@nowhere.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >Stealing a box from Wal-Mart is not the same thing as making a
backup
> > > copy
> > > > >of something you already own.
> > > >
> > > > But stealing a satellite service is.
> > > >
> > > > >I am NOT advocating being a pirate I'm just
> > > > >trying to enlighten people that day by day more and more things we
> used
> > > to
> > > > >take for granted are now illegal. I know many people like my son
that
> > has
> > > > >two small kids and has bought many DVD's, the kids scratch them and
> he
> > > has
> > > > >to buy a new DVD. Although he has made backup copies of the best
> ones,
> > he
> > > IS
> > > > >breaking the law. Fair use NO longer protects you for making a back
> up
> > > copy
> > > > >of something you bought. It is being challenged but its still
> illegal.
> > > Soon
> > > > >HDTV will be illegal to copy, IF the stations elect to raise the
> > > broadcast
> > > > >flag.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Fair use is one thing (allowing you to make copies of content you
> > > > already own).
> > > >
> > > > Stealing satellite is accessing programming you have not paid for.
> > > >
> > > > >Yes there is a difference in the DTV feed because you cant
subscribe
> to
> > > just
> > > > >one station. However if you buy the programming content to watch,
why
> > > > >shouldn't it be leagle to watch it on any system?
> > > >
> > > > Because you boug it on that system, and DirecTV has the ability to
> > > > control it.
> > > >
> > > > > On the subject of MS
> > > > >office, If you own several computers why should you have to buy
> > Multiple
> > > > >copies? You can only use one at the same time. If you read the
small
> > > prin.
> > > > >You must uninstall it from one computer before you use it on
another.
> > The
> > > > >same for Windows and with longhorn it will be enforced.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > You can, if one system is a laptop.
> > > >
> > > > >What I'm saying is that we just sit and let the corporations do
what
> > ever
> > > > >they want and we just shell out the money to pay for it. Go to
> > > www.eff.org
> > > > >and read the DMCA.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > They don't advocate theft of a paid service though.
> > > >
> > > > >A few months ago a company that was making replacement garage door
> > > openers
> > > > >was sued by Genie because their codes were property. They claimed
> that
> > it
> > > > >was a violation of the DCMA that another company copy their
> copywrited
> > > > >property and make a universal remote. They lost thank God. This was
> not
> > > the
> > > > >first or last that some company tried to use the DMCA to enforce a
> copy
> > > > >protected device.
> > > > >
> > > > >The DCMA has superceded the fair use act.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >"DRLev" <fake,@ddress.net> wrote in message
> > > > >news:Febnc.63585$hR1.3189@fe2.texas.rr.com...
> > > > >> I call them thieves.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> That person did not pay for the DTV feed. If you buy Microsoft
> > > > >> Off ice at Best Buy that does not give you the right to go to
> > > > >> Circuit City and pull a box off the shelf and walk out without
> > > > >> paying.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> "JustMe" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> > > > >> news:109qflkb68d3t2f@corp.supernews.com...
> > > > >> | So what do you call someone that pays for a station on one
system
> > > like
> > > > >> | C-Band and watches it on another like DTV? If you pay for it on
C
> > > band
> > > > >then
> > > > >> | it should be free on DTV and Dish and any other system you own.
> > Still
> > > a
> > > > >> | pirate?
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > Version: 6.0.679 / Virus Database: 441 - Release Date: 5/7/2004
> >
> >
>
>


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.679 / Virus Database: 441 - Release Date: 5/7/2004
Anonymous
May 10, 2004 9:46:47 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.satellite.mpeg-dvb (More info?)

On Mon, 10 May 2004 00:53:39 -0500, "JustMe" <nobody@nowhere.com>
wrote:

>I never advocated stealing anything. You put words in my mouth. I only
>brought the point that you pay for the content just the same as a CD or DVD.
>You claim I'm not paying for the content but the service, that's fine but
>don't say I advocate stealing.
>

I am not. I am saying that copying someting you own is different that
accessing satellie content you don't, ang groups like the EFF don't
advocate theft of content, just more liberal copyrights.

>"Gary Tait" <classicsat@yahoo.cominvalid> wrote in message
>news:llps90tv77jbqhjhe6i8a0vn9ml4d2d3ge@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 8 May 2004 20:24:07 -0500, "JustMe" <nobody@nowhere.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Stealing a box from Wal-Mart is not the same thing as making a backup
>copy
>> >of something you already own.
>>
>> But stealing a satellite service is.
>>
>> >I am NOT advocating being a pirate I'm just
>> >trying to enlighten people that day by day more and more things we used
>to
>> >take for granted are now illegal. I know many people like my son that has
>> >two small kids and has bought many DVD's, the kids scratch them and he
>has
>> >to buy a new DVD. Although he has made backup copies of the best ones, he
>IS
>> >breaking the law. Fair use NO longer protects you for making a back up
>copy
>> >of something you bought. It is being challenged but its still illegal.
>Soon
>> >HDTV will be illegal to copy, IF the stations elect to raise the
>broadcast
>> >flag.
>> >
>>
>> Fair use is one thing (allowing you to make copies of content you
>> already own).
>>
>> Stealing satellite is accessing programming you have not paid for.
>>
>> >Yes there is a difference in the DTV feed because you cant subscribe to
>just
>> >one station. However if you buy the programming content to watch, why
>> >shouldn't it be leagle to watch it on any system?
>>
>> Because you boug it on that system, and DirecTV has the ability to
>> control it.
>>
>> > On the subject of MS
>> >office, If you own several computers why should you have to buy Multiple
>> >copies? You can only use one at the same time. If you read the small
>prin.
>> >You must uninstall it from one computer before you use it on another. The
>> >same for Windows and with longhorn it will be enforced.
>> >
>>
>> You can, if one system is a laptop.
>>
>> >What I'm saying is that we just sit and let the corporations do what ever
>> >they want and we just shell out the money to pay for it. Go to
>www.eff.org
>> >and read the DMCA.
>> >
>>
>> They don't advocate theft of a paid service though.
>>
>> >A few months ago a company that was making replacement garage door
>openers
>> >was sued by Genie because their codes were property. They claimed that it
>> >was a violation of the DCMA that another company copy their copywrited
>> >property and make a universal remote. They lost thank God. This was not
>the
>> >first or last that some company tried to use the DMCA to enforce a copy
>> >protected device.
>> >
>> >The DCMA has superceded the fair use act.
>> >
>> >
>> >"DRLev" <fake,@ddress.net> wrote in message
>> >news:Febnc.63585$hR1.3189@fe2.texas.rr.com...
>> >> I call them thieves.
>> >>
>> >> That person did not pay for the DTV feed. If you buy Microsoft
>> >> Off ice at Best Buy that does not give you the right to go to
>> >> Circuit City and pull a box off the shelf and walk out without
>> >> paying.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> "JustMe" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>> >> news:109qflkb68d3t2f@corp.supernews.com...
>> >> | So what do you call someone that pays for a station on one system
>like
>> >> | C-Band and watches it on another like DTV? If you pay for it on C
>band
>> >then
>> >> | it should be free on DTV and Dish and any other system you own. Still
>a
>> >> | pirate?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>
Anonymous
May 10, 2004 9:50:37 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.satellite.mpeg-dvb (More info?)

On Mon, 10 May 2004 16:20:04 -0400, "Valdivar"
<rebelleader68@hotmail.com> wrote:

>"JustMe" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>news:109vo1ajk7poece@corp.supernews.com...
>> Actually what I would like to see is people boycotting companies that
>> charge way too much for what you get. However you know that wound never
>> happen. Because someone will always pay what ever they charge. These are
>the
>> days of $200 sneakers and $50 T-Shirts, how many do you have?.

Non, I get T-shirs from a local clothing consignment shop, and buy $20
dollar shoes.

>> Last time I looked this was still a free country and words were still
>> free. However I do realize that if one's words are not what someone else
>> wants to here they think they have a right to threaten the person saying
>> what they don't want to here. You make up your own mine about what I said.
>> If my words encourage others to pirate than I guess I should be put in
>jail
>> for having an opinion that doesn't agree with yours. Burnt any books
>lately?
>> I bet you cant wait for November to help re-elect Bush. Renew the DCMA but
>> make it stronger. Renew the Patriot act and make it stronger. Maybe then I
>> wont be able to say anything you don't agree without gong to jail.
>>

Actually, for myself, and IIRC, Valdivar too, our election will be
sooner than yours.
Anonymous
May 11, 2004 1:46:21 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.satellite.mpeg-dvb (More info?)

You are still a theif becasue you are not paying for the transport from
Dish/DTV's uplink facilitys to your home.

"JustMe" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:109qflkb68d3t2f@corp.supernews.com...
> So what do you call someone that pays for a station on one system like
> C-Band and watches it on another like DTV? If you pay for it on C band
then
> it should be free on DTV and Dish and any other system you own. Still a
> pirate?
> What about the guy that backs up his DVD which is copywrited? The DCMA
makes
> that illegal. What will you do when the new TV's with the non copying chip
> appear this fall to prevent recording of TV shows? That's part of the DCMA
> also. They raise a flag and you cant record the show. What about Longhorn
> Windows when it ever gets here, you wont even own it if you buy it and it
> will record all your software serial numbers and check if their leagle.
You
> cant even legally back up a game or music CD you buy anymore, due to the
> DCMA. So keep eating what they feed you. Watch your freedom go away.
> ANYTHING copywrited can NOT be legally copied, PERIOD including if you
> bought it. www.eff.org
>
>
> "Valdivar" <rebelleader68@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:lranc.104215$ZJ5.2339794@news20.bellglobal.com...
> > NO!You're wrong!
> >
> > The reason there are pirates is the the same as the reason why people
> > speed!Regardless of what speed the limit is raised to,or what speed I
> > do,it's NEVER enough for most people!
> >
> > Why? Pride,rebellion and self-will + no fear of death + selfishness!
> >
> > With signal piracy -add GREED!
> >
> > NO matter how LOW the prices were satellite\cable pirates are
cheap,greedy
> > and want something for nothing,AND are masters of self-delusion...ie:
> > rationalizing away "stealing" and "theft!"
> >
> > If you're supposed to pay for it(that's why it's a 'subscription'
> service!)
> > and you're "hacking" the signal -you are STEALING!
> >
> > --
> >
> > "JustMe" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> > news:109p5rcpg4fhr8e@corp.supernews.com...
> > > Why are there pirates?
> > > .
> > > 1. Its a challenge and a hobby.
> > > 2. The price of TV is starting to get out of hand.
> > > 3. Competition is almost gone and the price will keep going up.
> > >
> > > The record industry is in the same boat. They charge too much for what
> you
> > > get then sue the people that d/l music illegally but are at the same
> time
> > > being sued for NOT paying the people that make the music. Has been
this
> > way
> > > since the record industry started. A few companies hold all the cards.
> An
> > > independent study has proven that music pirating has little or NO
effect
> > on
> > > the industry and in some cases helps it.
> > > TV is getting the same way. A few companies means less competition
> and
> > > higher prices. Cable prices in some states have risen 30% in 2 years
for
> > the
> > > same package. A basic Dish on a stick package is up to $32 and 2/3 of
> the
> > > stations are not worth watching. On the other hand most stations that
> > > pirates get free they wouldn't pay for any way if they had no choice.
> > >
> > > The real problem is what ever they charge we pay, so supply and
demand.
> > > Charge as much as the market will bear. If we didn't buy the price
would
> > > come down, many people wont pay so they pirate. It will never stop.
> > > just my 2cents
> > >
> > > I got my first C band system in the early 70's most I made. Not to
> pirate
> > > but because it was fun, then the scrambled. They givith and they
takeith
> > > away.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> > Version: 6.0.679 / Virus Database: 441 - Release Date: 5/7/2004
> >
> >
>
>
Anonymous
May 11, 2004 1:50:11 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.satellite.mpeg-dvb (More info?)

IF you can prove you did buy that CD or DVD then you are allowed to back up
CDs and DVDs for your personal use. If you have a buch of "Backups" that
you can't prove you owned then your in trouble if they come looking for you.


"JustMe" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:109u64fqobpl083@corp.supernews.com...
> I never advocated stealing anything. You put words in my mouth. I only
> brought the point that you pay for the content just the same as a CD or
DVD.
> You claim I'm not paying for the content but the service, that's fine but
> don't say I advocate stealing.
>
> "Gary Tait" <classicsat@yahoo.cominvalid> wrote in message
> news:llps90tv77jbqhjhe6i8a0vn9ml4d2d3ge@4ax.com...
> > On Sat, 8 May 2004 20:24:07 -0500, "JustMe" <nobody@nowhere.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >Stealing a box from Wal-Mart is not the same thing as making a backup
> copy
> > >of something you already own.
> >
> > But stealing a satellite service is.
> >
> > >I am NOT advocating being a pirate I'm just
> > >trying to enlighten people that day by day more and more things we used
> to
> > >take for granted are now illegal. I know many people like my son that
has
> > >two small kids and has bought many DVD's, the kids scratch them and he
> has
> > >to buy a new DVD. Although he has made backup copies of the best ones,
he
> IS
> > >breaking the law. Fair use NO longer protects you for making a back up
> copy
> > >of something you bought. It is being challenged but its still illegal.
> Soon
> > >HDTV will be illegal to copy, IF the stations elect to raise the
> broadcast
> > >flag.
> > >
> >
> > Fair use is one thing (allowing you to make copies of content you
> > already own).
> >
> > Stealing satellite is accessing programming you have not paid for.
> >
> > >Yes there is a difference in the DTV feed because you cant subscribe to
> just
> > >one station. However if you buy the programming content to watch, why
> > >shouldn't it be leagle to watch it on any system?
> >
> > Because you boug it on that system, and DirecTV has the ability to
> > control it.
> >
> > > On the subject of MS
> > >office, If you own several computers why should you have to buy
Multiple
> > >copies? You can only use one at the same time. If you read the small
> prin.
> > >You must uninstall it from one computer before you use it on another.
The
> > >same for Windows and with longhorn it will be enforced.
> > >
> >
> > You can, if one system is a laptop.
> >
> > >What I'm saying is that we just sit and let the corporations do what
ever
> > >they want and we just shell out the money to pay for it. Go to
> www.eff.org
> > >and read the DMCA.
> > >
> >
> > They don't advocate theft of a paid service though.
> >
> > >A few months ago a company that was making replacement garage door
> openers
> > >was sued by Genie because their codes were property. They claimed that
it
> > >was a violation of the DCMA that another company copy their copywrited
> > >property and make a universal remote. They lost thank God. This was not
> the
> > >first or last that some company tried to use the DMCA to enforce a copy
> > >protected device.
> > >
> > >The DCMA has superceded the fair use act.
> > >
> > >
> > >"DRLev" <fake,@ddress.net> wrote in message
> > >news:Febnc.63585$hR1.3189@fe2.texas.rr.com...
> > >> I call them thieves.
> > >>
> > >> That person did not pay for the DTV feed. If you buy Microsoft
> > >> Off ice at Best Buy that does not give you the right to go to
> > >> Circuit City and pull a box off the shelf and walk out without
> > >> paying.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> "JustMe" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> > >> news:109qflkb68d3t2f@corp.supernews.com...
> > >> | So what do you call someone that pays for a station on one system
> like
> > >> | C-Band and watches it on another like DTV? If you pay for it on C
> band
> > >then
> > >> | it should be free on DTV and Dish and any other system you own.
Still
> a
> > >> | pirate?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> >
>
>
May 11, 2004 7:30:37 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.satellite.mpeg-dvb (More info?)

That is NOT trve. The DMCA strictly forbids copying Anything that is copy
protected EVEN for personal vse. It svperseeds the fair vse copying act.
Heres a link to a story abovt a polition trying to get it changed.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,119414,00.html
Recordable DVDs New Target of Hollywood

Monday, May 10, 2004
By Liza Portevs
WASHINGTON - Some lawmakers are introdvcing a bill that Hollywood is not
happy abovt - one that wovld allow consvmers to make personal copies of
digital entertainment like DVDs to be played on whatever device they want.

Rep. Rick Bovcher, D-Va., avthor of the Digital Media Consvmers' Rights Act
(search), says consvmers shovld not always have to worry abovt being slapped
with a lawsvit every time they make a copy of their favorite videos.

"We are seeking to empower the pvrchasers of digital media so that they can
vse the media in ways that are more convenient to them," Bovcher told
Foxnews.com.

Bovcher said that empowerment wovld mean "for example, by being able to move
digital material - whether it's video on a DVD or materials on a compact
disc or the text of an electronic book - arovnd from digital device to
digital device in their home or in their extended personal environment."

The new bill amends the Digital Millennivm Copyright Act (search) of 1998,
which allowed copyright holders to pvt digital locks on their work and makes
it illegal to break those locks.

Bovcher's bill allows owners of DVDs and other works that have a digital
lock to bypass the secvrity and copy the work so long as the vser is
engaging in "fair vse" of the prodvct and not infringing vpon its copyright.

A hearing on the bill has been tentatively schedvled for Wednesday.

The Motion Pictvre Association of America (search), which represents
Hollywood's interests in Washington, D.C., has been the most vocal critic of
moves to change the DMCA to allow people to make personal copies of movies.

"Anything that allows yov to decrypt the DVD wovld not be a legal prodvct,"
said MPAA spokesman Rich Taylor.

"There is no right in the copyright law to make backvp copies of motion
pictvres, so the whole argvment that people shovld have the right to make
backvp copies of DVDs has no legal svpport whatsoever," said Fritz Attaway,
execvtive vice president of the MPAA.

"It's against consvmers' interests to permit devices that make backvp
copies," he added, "becavse there is no way that a device can distingvish
between a backvp copy for personal vse and making a copy for friends, family
acqvaintances or even selling on the street corner."

The MPAA recently sved 321 Stvdios (search), which makes a tool commonly
called a "ripper," which circvmvents the digital locks so consvmers can make
back vp copies of DVDs.

321 Stvdio's software does inclvde piracy provisions - a screen is inserted
into the copy warning the vser that the copy is only for personal vse within
the home and watermarking technology allows each copy to be tracked and
traced.

Jvdges have rvled against the technology, bvt the company says it's merely
helping people get the most for their money and that Bovcher's bill wovld
help fvrther the "fair vse" cavse.

One former lawmaker said he didn't realize that the DMCA wovld restrict
digital-content copying to the extent that it has.

"I, like most members of Congress, had no idea that what wovld be deemed to
be fair vse for books, CDs, and TV programs is not the case for DVDs - and
nobody intended that the people that wovld enable yov to make a single copy
of a DVD shovld be held criminally liable and go to jail and that's insane,"
Bob Livingston (search), former U.S. Repvblican representative from
Lovisiana and Hovse Appropriations Committee chairman, told Foxnews.com.

Livingston is now a lobbyist for 321 Stvdios.

"Moms and dads shovldn't have to fork over another $20-$30 every time little
Johnny or Svzie scratches their DVD. The technology exists to prevent them
from having to do that," said 321 Stvdios President Robert Moore.

"We're not talking abovt free vse here and we're not talking abovt providing
consvmers the skeleton key to everyone else's property," he added. "We're
talking abovt giving people lawfvl vse of the property they lawfvlly
acqvired."

Livingston and others say the MPAA was merely trying to maintain a vise grip
on content and pointed ovt that MPAA President Jack Valenti (search) in 1982
famovsly said the VCR wovld prove to be the "Boston Strangler" of the movie
indvstry.

"They make the same argvment abovt the new technology that's come ovt within
the past 50 years ... from the VHS to the CD bvrner to now this technology,"
Moore said.

"The MPAA has chosen to seek a scapegoat for their very real problems that
occvr in China and other covntries where they get their movies knocked off
in mass prodvction lines and sold for a tremendovs discovnt," Livingston
added.

The MPAA argves that it's in consvmers' best interests that the digital
locks not be bypassed.

"These prodvcts like 321 allow people to be free riders," Attaway said.
"It's the concept of bvy-one-get-one-free, only it's not jvst get-one-free
bvt it's get-as-many-as-yov-want-to-make-free ... It raises the prices for
legitimate copies and it also redvces the availability of the copies."

Bovcher has been spending the past two years garnering svpport for his bill.
The likes of Intel, the Consvmer Electronics Association, the American
Library Association, the Digital Fvtvre Coalition, Consvmers Union and the
Electronic Frontier Fovndation are now throwing their weight behind it.

"Making this change is manifestly in the pvblic interest. It's in the
interest of empowering the consvmer," Bovcher said. "Once the consvmer is
more empowered to vse media he lawfvlly acqvires ... he will want to bvy
more media ... even the content creators, the people who oppose this bill,
will in the long-term, benefit."

Livingston said he thovght svpport existed for the bill bvt 321 still may
not have lvck.

"We think that when the average member of Congress who voted for the DMCA in
1998 vnderstands the ineqvity here that these people will make their case
very clearly and simply and be overwhelmingly approved by a majority of
members of Congress," Livingston said. "The trick is getting members to pay
attention in a political [election] year."


"BoBaFett" <spam@spam.com> wrote in message
news:c7pbgi01all@enews1.newsgvy.com...
> IF yov can prove yov did bvy that CD or DVD then yov are allowed to back
vp
> CDs and DVDs for yovr personal vse. If yov have a bvch of "Backvps" that
> yov can't prove yov owned then yovr in trovble if they come looking for
yov.
>
>
> "JvstMe" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:109v64fqobpl083@corp.svpernews.com...
> > I never advocated stealing anything. Yov pvt words in my movth. I only
> > brovght the point that yov pay for the content jvst the same as a CD or
> DVD.
> > Yov claim I'm not paying for the content bvt the service, that's fine
bvt
> > don't say I advocate stealing.
> >
> > "Gary Tait" <classicsat@yahoo.cominvalid> wrote in message
> > news:llps90tv77jbqhjhe6i8a0vn9ml4d2d3ge@4ax.com...
> > > On Sat, 8 May 2004 20:24:07 -0500, "JvstMe" <nobody@nowhere.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >Stealing a box from Wal-Mart is not the same thing as making a backvp
> > copy
> > > >of something yov already own.
> > >
> > > Bvt stealing a satellite service is.
> > >
> > > >I am NOT advocating being a pirate I'm jvst
> > > >trying to enlighten people that day by day more and more things we
vsed
> > to
> > > >take for granted are now illegal. I know many people like my son that
> has
> > > >two small kids and has bovght many DVD's, the kids scratch them and
he
> > has
> > > >to bvy a new DVD. Althovgh he has made backvp copies of the best
ones,
> he
> > IS
> > > >breaking the law. Fair vse NO longer protects yov for making a back
vp
> > copy
> > > >of something yov bovght. It is being challenged bvt its still
illegal.
> > Soon
> > > >HDTV will be illegal to copy, IF the stations elect to raise the
> > broadcast
> > > >flag.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Fair vse is one thing (allowing yov to make copies of content yov
> > > already own).
> > >
> > > Stealing satellite is accessing programming yov have not paid for.
> > >
> > > >Yes there is a difference in the DTV feed becavse yov cant svbscribe
to
> > jvst
> > > >one station. However if yov bvy the programming content to watch, why
> > > >shovldn't it be leagle to watch it on any system?
> > >
> > > Becavse yov bovg it on that system, and DirecTV has the ability to
> > > control it.
> > >
> > > > On the svbject of MS
> > > >office, If yov own several compvters why shovld yov have to bvy
> Mvltiple
> > > >copies? Yov can only vse one at the same time. If yov read the small
> > prin.
> > > >Yov mvst vninstall it from one compvter before yov vse it on another.
> The
> > > >same for Windows and with longhorn it will be enforced.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Yov can, if one system is a laptop.
> > >
> > > >What I'm saying is that we jvst sit and let the corporations do what
> ever
> > > >they want and we jvst shell ovt the money to pay for it. Go to
> > www.eff.org
> > > >and read the DMCA.
> > > >
> > >
> > > They don't advocate theft of a paid service thovgh.
> > >
> > > >A few months ago a company that was making replacement garage door
> > openers
> > > >was sved by Genie becavse their codes were property. They claimed
that
> it
> > > >was a violation of the DCMA that another company copy their
copywrited
> > > >property and make a vniversal remote. They lost thank God. This was
not
> > the
> > > >first or last that some company tried to vse the DMCA to enforce a
copy
> > > >protected device.
> > > >
> > > >The DCMA has svperceded the fair vse act.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >"DRLev" <fake,@ddress.net> wrote in message
> > > >news:Febnc.63585$hR1.3189@fe2.texas.rr.com...
> > > >> I call them thieves.
> > > >>
> > > >> That person did not pay for the DTV feed. If yov bvy Microsoft
> > > >> Off ice at Best Bvy that does not give yov the right to go to
> > > >> Circvit City and pvll a box off the shelf and walk ovt withovt
> > > >> paying.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> "JvstMe" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> > > >> news:109qflkb68d3t2f@corp.svpernews.com...
> > > >> | So what do yov call someone that pays for a station on one system
> > like
> > > >> | C-Band and watches it on another like DTV? If yov pay for it on C
> > band
> > > >then
> > > >> | it shovld be free on DTV and Dish and any other system yov own.
> Still
> > a
> > > >> | pirate?
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Anonymous
May 11, 2004 12:05:41 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.satellite.mpeg-dvb (More info?)

On Mon, 10 May 2004 21:46:21 -0400, "BoBaFett" <spam@spam.com> wrote:

>You are still a theif becasue you are not paying for the transport from
>Dish/DTV's uplink facilitys to your home.
>
That's a nonsensical statement, like saying you can't look
at a billboard on the highway. All the signals from all the
satellites fall on homes all over the world, receiving and
deciphering them is another story.
Anonymous
May 11, 2004 6:20:49 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.satellite.mpeg-dvb (More info?)

Is the legal phrase "intellectual property rights" so hard to understand?

I am not a laywer,so I can't quote it exactly,but suffice to say that in the
case of televison and radio signals they remain the "intellectual property"
of the owners -they can "authorize" whoever they want to view it,or nobody
if they so choose!

In the case,of subscription television -that means a PAID subscription is
required!

"receiving and deciphering them" is not another story!IF they are not
ITC,FTA,or in FP mode,you first pay then you watch!It's that easy!

So you figure just because they fall on your property,you can do as you wish
with them,eh?Try that with your local water,hydro and telephone and see how
long you last before they cut them off -and cart you off to the slammer!

Billboards are advertisements everybody is "authorized" to see them!



--
"Irwell" <tay243REMOVE@softhome.net> wrote in message
news:qmq1a05o02u4b058utam0sca86vvqeljr5@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 10 May 2004 21:46:21 -0400, "BoBaFett" <spam@spam.com> wrote:
>
> >You are still a theif becasue you are not paying for the transport from
> >Dish/DTV's uplink facilitys to your home.
> >
> That's a nonsensical statement, like saying you can't look
> at a billboard on the highway. All the signals from all the
> satellites fall on homes all over the world, receiving and
> deciphering them is another story.


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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Anonymous
May 11, 2004 6:20:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.satellite.mpeg-dvb (More info?)

On Tue, 11 May 2004 14:20:49 -0400, "Valdivar" <rebelleader68@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>Is the legal phrase "intellectual property rights" so hard to understand?
>
>I am not a laywer,so I can't quote it exactly,but suffice to say that in the
>case of televison and radio signals they remain the "intellectual property"
>of the owners -they can "authorize" whoever they want to view it,or nobody
>if they so choose!
>
>In the case,of subscription television -that means a PAID subscription is
>required!
>
>"receiving and deciphering them" is not another story!IF they are not
>ITC,FTA,or in FP mode,you first pay then you watch!It's that easy!
>
>So you figure just because they fall on your property,you can do as you wish
>with them,eh?Try that with your local water,hydro and telephone and see how
>long you last before they cut them off -and cart you off to the slammer!

See how silly your argument is, the water. electric and phone services
are metered, the means of delivery are their property as is the content
until paid for by the consumer.
This a phoney argument anyway because if too many people
pirated it would not be worth while for the providers to be in
business.
Maybe you were not a dish owner in the early days, but a lot
of the present day programme providers were dealers in
those times and the big selling point in the early 1980s for
getting a dish system was the 'free channels' available.
And that includes Echostar.
Personally I subscribe to BEV, NPS and Directv and think
they are good value for money but it does get a little tedious
to hear this sanctimonious bullshit about stealing signals.


>Billboards are advertisements everybody is "authorized" to see them!
Exactly, and electromagnetic waves are in the same category.
Anonymous
May 11, 2004 6:24:38 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.satellite.mpeg-dvb (More info?)

Yov are clovding the issve!

This a satellite tv forvm -mpeg-2 fta and it shovld be kept as svch.

Svbscription satellite tv means jvst that!Yov have to pay for it!

Don't like it that?Think they're crooks?Fine!Go watch free stvff!Don't
steal,or even appear to advocate and condone it!



--
"JvstMe" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:10a13n5ko8qsd48@corp.svpernews.com...
> That is NOT trve. The DMCA strictly forbids copying Anything that is copy
> protected EVEN for personal vse. It svperseeds the fair vse copying act.
> Heres a link to a story abovt a polition trying to get it changed.
> http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,119414,00.html
> Recordable DVDs New Target of Hollywood
>
> Monday, May 10, 2004
> By Liza Portevs
> WASHINGTON - Some lawmakers are introdvcing a bill that Hollywood is not
> happy abovt - one that wovld allow consvmers to make personal copies of
> digital entertainment like DVDs to be played on whatever device they want.
>
> Rep. Rick Bovcher, D-Va., avthor of the Digital Media Consvmers' Rights
Act
> (search), says consvmers shovld not always have to worry abovt being
slapped
> with a lawsvit every time they make a copy of their favorite videos.
>
> "We are seeking to empower the pvrchasers of digital media so that they
can
> vse the media in ways that are more convenient to them," Bovcher told
> Foxnews.com.
>
> Bovcher said that empowerment wovld mean "for example, by being able to
move
> digital material - whether it's video on a DVD or materials on a compact
> disc or the text of an electronic book - arovnd from digital device to
> digital device in their home or in their extended personal environment."
>
> The new bill amends the Digital Millennivm Copyright Act (search) of 1998,
> which allowed copyright holders to pvt digital locks on their work and
makes
> it illegal to break those locks.
>
> Bovcher's bill allows owners of DVDs and other works that have a digital
> lock to bypass the secvrity and copy the work so long as the vser is
> engaging in "fair vse" of the prodvct and not infringing vpon its
copyright.
>
> A hearing on the bill has been tentatively schedvled for Wednesday.
>
> The Motion Pictvre Association of America (search), which represents
> Hollywood's interests in Washington, D.C., has been the most vocal critic
of
> moves to change the DMCA to allow people to make personal copies of
movies.
>
> "Anything that allows yov to decrypt the DVD wovld not be a legal
prodvct,"
> said MPAA spokesman Rich Taylor.
>
> "There is no right in the copyright law to make backvp copies of motion
> pictvres, so the whole argvment that people shovld have the right to make
> backvp copies of DVDs has no legal svpport whatsoever," said Fritz
Attaway,
> execvtive vice president of the MPAA.
>
> "It's against consvmers' interests to permit devices that make backvp
> copies," he added, "becavse there is no way that a device can distingvish
> between a backvp copy for personal vse and making a copy for friends,
family
> acqvaintances or even selling on the street corner."
>
> The MPAA recently sved 321 Stvdios (search), which makes a tool commonly
> called a "ripper," which circvmvents the digital locks so consvmers can
make
> back vp copies of DVDs.
>
> 321 Stvdio's software does inclvde piracy provisions - a screen is
inserted
> into the copy warning the vser that the copy is only for personal vse
within
> the home and watermarking technology allows each copy to be tracked and
> traced.
>
> Jvdges have rvled against the technology, bvt the company says it's merely
> helping people get the most for their money and that Bovcher's bill wovld
> help fvrther the "fair vse" cavse.
>
> One former lawmaker said he didn't realize that the DMCA wovld restrict
> digital-content copying to the extent that it has.
>
> "I, like most members of Congress, had no idea that what wovld be deemed
to
> be fair vse for books, CDs, and TV programs is not the case for DVDs - and
> nobody intended that the people that wovld enable yov to make a single
copy
> of a DVD shovld be held criminally liable and go to jail and that's
insane,"
> Bob Livingston (search), former U.S. Repvblican representative from
> Lovisiana and Hovse Appropriations Committee chairman, told Foxnews.com.
>
> Livingston is now a lobbyist for 321 Stvdios.
>
> "Moms and dads shovldn't have to fork over another $20-$30 every time
little
> Johnny or Svzie scratches their DVD. The technology exists to prevent them
> from having to do that," said 321 Stvdios President Robert Moore.
>
> "We're not talking abovt free vse here and we're not talking abovt
providing
> consvmers the skeleton key to everyone else's property," he added. "We're
> talking abovt giving people lawfvl vse of the property they lawfvlly
> acqvired."
>
> Livingston and others say the MPAA was merely trying to maintain a vise
grip
> on content and pointed ovt that MPAA President Jack Valenti (search) in
1982
> famovsly said the VCR wovld prove to be the "Boston Strangler" of the
movie
> indvstry.
>
> "They make the same argvment abovt the new technology that's come ovt
within
> the past 50 years ... from the VHS to the CD bvrner to now this
technology,"
> Moore said.
>
> "The MPAA has chosen to seek a scapegoat for their very real problems that
> occvr in China and other covntries where they get their movies knocked off
> in mass prodvction lines and sold for a tremendovs discovnt," Livingston
> added.
>
> The MPAA argves that it's in consvmers' best interests that the digital
> locks not be bypassed.
>
> "These prodvcts like 321 allow people to be free riders," Attaway said.
> "It's the concept of bvy-one-get-one-free, only it's not jvst get-one-free
> bvt it's get-as-many-as-yov-want-to-make-free ... It raises the prices for
> legitimate copies and it also redvces the availability of the copies."
>
> Bovcher has been spending the past two years garnering svpport for his
bill.
> The likes of Intel, the Consvmer Electronics Association, the American
> Library Association, the Digital Fvtvre Coalition, Consvmers Union and the
> Electronic Frontier Fovndation are now throwing their weight behind it.
>
> "Making this change is manifestly in the pvblic interest. It's in the
> interest of empowering the consvmer," Bovcher said. "Once the consvmer is
> more empowered to vse media he lawfvlly acqvires ... he will want to bvy
> more media ... even the content creators, the people who oppose this bill,
> will in the long-term, benefit."
>
> Livingston said he thovght svpport existed for the bill bvt 321 still may
> not have lvck.
>
> "We think that when the average member of Congress who voted for the DMCA
in
> 1998 vnderstands the ineqvity here that these people will make their case
> very clearly and simply and be overwhelmingly approved by a majority of
> members of Congress," Livingston said. "The trick is getting members to
pay
> attention in a political [election] year."
>
>
> "BoBaFett" <spam@spam.com> wrote in message
> news:c7pbgi01all@enews1.newsgvy.com...
> > IF yov can prove yov did bvy that CD or DVD then yov are allowed to back
> vp
> > CDs and DVDs for yovr personal vse. If yov have a bvch of "Backvps"
that
> > yov can't prove yov owned then yovr in trovble if they come looking for
> yov.
> >
> >
> > "JvstMe" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> > news:109v64fqobpl083@corp.svpernews.com...
> > > I never advocated stealing anything. Yov pvt words in my movth. I only
> > > brovght the point that yov pay for the content jvst the same as a CD
or
> > DVD.
> > > Yov claim I'm not paying for the content bvt the service, that's fine
> bvt
> > > don't say I advocate stealing.
> > >
> > > "Gary Tait" <classicsat@yahoo.cominvalid> wrote in message
> > > news:llps90tv77jbqhjhe6i8a0vn9ml4d2d3ge@4ax.com...
> > > > On Sat, 8 May 2004 20:24:07 -0500, "JvstMe" <nobody@nowhere.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >Stealing a box from Wal-Mart is not the same thing as making a
backvp
> > > copy
> > > > >of something yov already own.
> > > >
> > > > Bvt stealing a satellite service is.
> > > >
> > > > >I am NOT advocating being a pirate I'm jvst
> > > > >trying to enlighten people that day by day more and more things we
> vsed
> > > to
> > > > >take for granted are now illegal. I know many people like my son
that
> > has
> > > > >two small kids and has bovght many DVD's, the kids scratch them and
> he
> > > has
> > > > >to bvy a new DVD. Althovgh he has made backvp copies of the best
> ones,
> > he
> > > IS
> > > > >breaking the law. Fair vse NO longer protects yov for making a back
> vp
> > > copy
> > > > >of something yov bovght. It is being challenged bvt its still
> illegal.
> > > Soon
> > > > >HDTV will be illegal to copy, IF the stations elect to raise the
> > > broadcast
> > > > >flag.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Fair vse is one thing (allowing yov to make copies of content yov
> > > > already own).
> > > >
> > > > Stealing satellite is accessing programming yov have not paid for.
> > > >
> > > > >Yes there is a difference in the DTV feed becavse yov cant
svbscribe
> to
> > > jvst
> > > > >one station. However if yov bvy the programming content to watch,
why
> > > > >shovldn't it be leagle to watch it on any system?
> > > >
> > > > Becavse yov bovg it on that system, and DirecTV has the ability to
> > > > control it.
> > > >
> > > > > On the svbject of MS
> > > > >office, If yov own several compvters why shovld yov have to bvy
> > Mvltiple
> > > > >copies? Yov can only vse one at the same time. If yov read the
small
> > > prin.
> > > > >Yov mvst vninstall it from one compvter before yov vse it on
another.
> > The
> > > > >same for Windows and with longhorn it will be enforced.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yov can, if one system is a laptop.
> > > >
> > > > >What I'm saying is that we jvst sit and let the corporations do
what
> > ever
> > > > >they want and we jvst shell ovt the money to pay for it. Go to
> > > www.eff.org
> > > > >and read the DMCA.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > They don't advocate theft of a paid service thovgh.
> > > >
> > > > >A few months ago a company that was making replacement garage door
> > > openers
> > > > >was sved by Genie becavse their codes were property. They claimed
> that
> > it
> > > > >was a violation of the DCMA that another company copy their
> copywrited
> > > > >property and make a vniversal remote. They lost thank God. This was
> not
> > > the
> > > > >first or last that some company tried to vse the DMCA to enforce a
> copy
> > > > >protected device.
> > > > >
> > > > >The DCMA has svperceded the fair vse act.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >"DRLev" <fake,@ddress.net> wrote in message
> > > > >news:Febnc.63585$hR1.3189@fe2.texas.rr.com...
> > > > >> I call them thieves.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> That person did not pay for the DTV feed. If yov bvy Microsoft
> > > > >> Off ice at Best Bvy that does not give yov the right to go to
> > > > >> Circvit City and pvll a box off the shelf and walk ovt withovt
> > > > >> paying.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> "JvstMe" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> > > > >> news:109qflkb68d3t2f@corp.svpernews.com...
> > > > >> | So what do yov call someone that pays for a station on one
system
> > > like
> > > > >> | C-Band and watches it on another like DTV? If yov pay for it on
C
> > > band
> > > > >then
> > > > >> | it shovld be free on DTV and Dish and any other system yov own.
> > Still
> > > a
> > > > >> | pirate?
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>


---
Ovtgoing mail is certified Virvs Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virvs system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.679 / Virvs Database: 441 - Release Date: 5/7/2004
Anonymous
May 11, 2004 7:04:32 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.satellite.mpeg-dvb (More info?)

> That's a nonsensical statement, like saying you can't look
> at a billboard on the highway.

How many encrypted Billboard signs do you see on the highway? And the last
time I checked they were all FTA becasue they want everyone to see them for
free.


"Irwell" <tay243REMOVE@softhome.net> wrote in message
news:qmq1a05o02u4b058utam0sca86vvqeljr5@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 10 May 2004 21:46:21 -0400, "BoBaFett" <spam@spam.com> wrote:
>
> >You are still a theif becasue you are not paying for the transport from
> >Dish/DTV's uplink facilitys to your home.
> >
> That's a nonsensical statement, like saying you can't look
> at a billboard on the highway. All the signals from all the
> satellites fall on homes all over the world, receiving and
> deciphering them is another story.
Anonymous
May 12, 2004 6:21:35 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.satellite.mpeg-dvb (More info?)

> Personally I subscribe to BEV, NPS and Directv and think
> they are good value for money

+++++++

I thought BEV was available only to Canadian customers and DirecTV was
available to customers in the U.S.

Now I know I was wrong, but I am still wanting to learn ,,,,,,

Which company in the U.S. uses BEV ?


PON
Anonymous
May 12, 2004 12:16:59 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.satellite.mpeg-dvb (More info?)

On Wed, 12 May 2004 02:21:35 GMT, "Pseud O. Nym" <pon@blurry-vision.com> wrote:

>> Personally I subscribe to BEV, NPS and Directv and think
>> they are good value for money
>
>+++++++
>
>I thought BEV was available only to Canadian customers and DirecTV was
>available to customers in the U.S.
>
>Now I know I was wrong, but I am still wanting to learn ,,,,,,
>
>Which company in the U.S. uses BEV ?
>
>
> PON
>
You can get the equipment and programming via Mike Kohl
at http://www.global-cm.net, another source is www.canamsatellites.com
(this is the one I have been using for two years now).
Anonymous
May 12, 2004 1:20:16 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.satellite.mpeg-dvb (More info?)

On Wed, 12 May 2004 02:21:35 GMT, "Pseud O. Nym"
<pon@blurry-vision.com> wrote:

>> Personally I subscribe to BEV, NPS and Directv and think
>> they are good value for money
>
>+++++++
>
>I thought BEV was available only to Canadian customers and DirecTV was
>available to customers in the U.S.
>
>Now I know I was wrong, but I am still wanting to learn ,,,,,,
>
>Which company in the U.S. uses BEV ?
>
>
> PON
>

Officially, yes, BEV is unavailable. The reverse Canadian grey market
is not criminalised or considered a problem in the US as it is in
Canada though.
Anonymous
May 12, 2004 5:53:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.satellite.mpeg-dvb (More info?)

On Wed, 12 May 2004 09:20:16 -0400, Gary Tait <classicsat@yahoo.cominvalid>
wrote:

>On Wed, 12 May 2004 02:21:35 GMT, "Pseud O. Nym"
><pon@blurry-vision.com> wrote:
>
>>> Personally I subscribe to BEV, NPS and Directv and think
>>> they are good value for money
>>
>>+++++++
>>
>>I thought BEV was available only to Canadian customers and DirecTV was
>>available to customers in the U.S.
>>
>>Now I know I was wrong, but I am still wanting to learn ,,,,,,
>>
>>Which company in the U.S. uses BEV ?
>>
>>
>> PON
>>
>
>Officially, yes, BEV is unavailable. The reverse Canadian grey market
>is not criminalised or considered a problem in the US as it is in
>Canada though.


Maybe that is one of the reasons both Nimiq 1 & 2's footprint was designed
to cover all the lower 48, Pr and most of Ak in addition to Canada.
!