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headphone quality

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Anonymous
May 18, 2005 3:49:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.opinion,alt.music-lover.audiophile.hardware,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

Has anyone ever traced any independent comparative reviews of small
headphones which are suitable for use with an outdoors device such as an
iPod?

Not sure if noise canceling is the way to go to get ANY dynamic range at all
or if the statements by the manufacturers (such as Shure) about plugging the
ear obviates noise canceling technology. Sounds a bit simplistic to me,
especially as I occasionally use them in aircraft where they DO seem to be
useful

I have three pairs of phones: A Sony NC which gives no dynamic range or low
end, NoiseBusters which performs better than the others in all areas
principally because they are mediocre in all of them and Philips NC60 which
have OK high end but no low end at all and virtually no noise cancellation
(I even switched them with the manufacturer because I thought that they
weren't working at first until a second one did the same thing) Also they
have a slight tendency to fall out of the ear all the time which can be a
bit of a disadvantage

More about : headphone quality

Anonymous
May 18, 2005 4:46:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.opinion,alt.music-lover.audiophile.hardware,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

"news.rcn.com" <news.rnc.com> wrote in message
news:16Gdnbcsutmn-RbfRVn-hw@rcn.net...

> Has anyone ever traced any independent comparative reviews
of small
> headphones which are suitable for use with an outdoors
device such as an
> iPod?

The smart, simple solution is in-ear-monitors such as those
sold by Shure and Etymotics

> Not sure if noise canceling is the way to go to get ANY
dynamic range at all
> or if the statements by the manufacturers (such as Shure)
about plugging the
> ear obviates noise canceling technology. Sounds a bit
simplistic to me,
> especially as I occasionally use them in aircraft where
they DO seem to be
> useful

Active noise cancellation works better for speech than
music, it seems.

> I have three pairs of phones: A Sony NC which gives no
dynamic range or low
> end, NoiseBusters which performs better than the others in
all areas
> principally because they are mediocre in all of them and
Philips NC60 which
> have OK high end but no low end at all and virtually no
noise cancellation
> (I even switched them with the manufacturer because I
thought that they
> weren't working at first until a second one did the same
thing)

What was that we were saying about active noise cancellation
working better for speech than music? ;-)

> Also they have a slight tendency to fall out of the ear
all the time which can be a
> bit of a disadvantage

In-ear monitors, if fitted properly, give something like 20
dB supression of outside noises, and are a proven solution
for high quality music listening.
Anonymous
May 18, 2005 7:08:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.opinion,alt.music-lover.audiophile.hardware,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

Not absulutely sure what "in-ear-monitors" are? I have seen a line drawing
of the Shure one and it does look like the Philips ones I have at the moment
which fall out continuously: This could of course be because the Philips
ones are too heavy? Especialy if all the noise cancelling technology has to
be built in to the head piece.

Ths Philips ones have two rims of convex cups around a central monitor. Is
there a (foam rubber?) noise blocking plug as well? Is the transducer in the
Philips just NBG? It does give quite good highs but that annoying switch
just seems to turn the volume down. Do I need an amplifier or will none of
these things work properly without one as suggested by headphones.com? This
is why I was looking for a comparative and independent review/opinion.


> In-ear monitors, if fitted properly, give something like 20
> dB supression of outside noises, and are a proven solution
> for high quality music listening.
>
>
Related resources
Anonymous
May 18, 2005 11:45:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.opinion,alt.music-lover.audiophile.hardware,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

"news.rcn.com" <news.rnc.com> wrote in message
news:16Gdnbcsutmn-RbfRVn-hw@rcn.net...
> Has anyone ever traced any independent comparative reviews of small
> headphones which are suitable for use with an outdoors device such as an
> iPod?
>
> Not sure if noise canceling is the way to go to get ANY dynamic range at
all
> or if the statements by the manufacturers (such as Shure) about plugging
the
> ear obviates noise canceling technology. Sounds a bit simplistic to me,
> especially as I occasionally use them in aircraft where they DO seem to be
> useful
>
I've looked for noise cancelling solutions for trains, which, unlike jets,
have variable, impulsive noise.
I agree with the other posters that passive is the way to go.
Active noise cancellation is highly overrated, really ineffective, except
for stead, low frequency, droning noises.
Anonymous
May 19, 2005 2:52:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.opinion,alt.music-lover.audiophile.hardware,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

"news.rcn.com" <news.rnc.com> wrote in message
news:IpKdnUc_guhPDxbfRVn-tw@rcn.net...
> Not absulutely sure what "in-ear-monitors" are? I have seen a line drawing
> of the Shure one and it does look like the Philips ones I have at the
moment
> which fall out continuously:

Musicians have to solve the problem on stage, where sound levels can be
high. I read that some in-ear monitors can be used with a custom mold.
Here's one user's experience:

http://www.drumdojo.com/reviews/iem.htm

here's one supplier

http://store.yahoo.com/earplugstore/cusfitearmol1.html

Tim
Anonymous
May 19, 2005 10:22:48 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.opinion,alt.music-lover.audiophile.hardware,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

"news.rcn.com" <news.rnc.com> wrote in message
news:IpKdnUc_guhPDxbfRVn-tw@rcn.net...


> Not absulutely sure what "in-ear-monitors" are?

Here are some pix:

http://vista-1041183.vista.com/store/index.php3?cat=132...

http://www.shure.com/psm/earphones/default.asp

http://www.etymotic.com/

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00001P4X...

>I have seen a line drawing
> of the Shure one and it does look like the Philips ones I
have at the moment
> which fall out continuously: This could of course be
because the Philips
> ones are too heavy?

These ones?

http://www.argos.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Produc...


An IEM is supposed to have a tip that fits relatively
tightly into the ear canal. If properly fitted (most
earphones come with a range of tip sizes) they don't fall
out.

> Do I need an amplifier or will none of
> these things work properly without one as suggested by
headphones.com?

Most people use earphones with just the digital player. If
your hearing is poor, or your player puts out a weak signal,
or you like music vary loud, then an amplifier can help.
Also, there are some effects related to the acoustics of
your head that some more complex headphone amplifiers
address. If you can't adapt to headphone listening, they can
help.
Anonymous
May 19, 2005 6:33:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.opinion,alt.music-lover.audiophile.hardware,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

> These ones?
>
>
http://www.argos.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Produc...

No, the ones I have are shown at
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=...
and seem to have active and passive noise cancelling technology (unless that
is an exaggeration for something which doesnt work?)


They do look suspiciously like the ones which work by plugging rather than
by listening and counteracting. Which makes me wonder what the on off switch
is for (it doesnt actually do anything which is odd as the reviews I read
before purchase said that they work quite well).
Anonymous
May 19, 2005 6:56:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.opinion,alt.music-lover.audiophile.hardware,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

Here, this is really baffling:
http://www2.interactivereviews.com/product/B00061IYJC#r...

These people found exactly what I found, that some people love them and have
terrific noise reduction whereas others have no noise reduction whatsoever

How do you get CNET or someone supposedly reliable to do a review on them?

Is it possible that TWO pairs just dont work?
Anonymous
May 20, 2005 12:23:58 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.opinion,alt.music-lover.audiophile.hardware,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

"Sylvan Morein" <herethereeverywhere@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:BEB2A03A.2840B%herethereeverywhere@fe02.buzzardnews.com...
> In article _dOdnXo1YYsEThbfRVn-tw@comcast.com, "Robert Morein"
> <herethereeverywhere@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
> > Active noise cancellation is highly overrated, really ineffective,
except
> > for stead, low frequency, droning noises.
>
> The only way I've been able to tolerate you still inhabiting my home after
> over 50 years, by eliminating the overrated droning noises you make.
>
> Dr. Sylvan Morein, DDS
>
Forgery by Brian L. McCarty.
Brian is upset because he has been warned that the crackdown on his scams,
http://www.worldjazz.com and http://www.coralseastudios.com, will never end.
Remember, Brian, if we detect any signs of forward motion in these scams,
the appropriate heads of state will be informed.
Anonymous
May 20, 2005 5:16:51 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.opinion,alt.music-lover.audiophile.hardware,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

"news.rcn.com" <news.rnc.com> wrote in message
news:YdqdnUjghIQLfBHfRVn-2g@rcn.net...
> Here, this is really baffling:
> http://www2.interactivereviews.com/product/B00061IYJC#r...
>
> These people found exactly what I found, that some people love them and
have
> terrific noise reduction whereas others have no noise reduction whatsoever
>
> How do you get CNET or someone supposedly reliable to do a review on them?
>
> Is it possible that TWO pairs just dont work?
>

First, you say they fall out. That means they are not fitting properly,
which means you will be losing bass response. As an experiment, try fitting
them tightly in your ears, and then place your hands over your ears to try
to ensure a good seal. If the bass response improves markedly, then you
have a sealing problem.

Secondly, noise cancelling is ( I should think) pretty simple. You use a
microphone to capture external sound, amplify it, and feed it to the
earpieces *out of phase* with the external sound. The trick is to adjust
the out-of-phase signal at the ear so it's the same loudness as the external
sound itself - and so it will depend on the earpieces attenuating the
external signal by a known amount. If you don't have a good seal, it won't
work, because the external sound arriving at the ear will be louder than the
noise-cancelling system was expecting.

Tim






..
Anonymous
May 21, 2005 1:53:52 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.opinion,alt.music-lover.audiophile.hardware,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

> and seem to have active and passive noise cancelling technology (unless that
> is an exaggeration for something which doesnt work?)

Passive noise cancelling: They get in the way of other sounds. Most
headphones will do that to some degree, some more and some less.

Active is the "listen and counteract" thing. That works for some sounds
(machinery) better than others. I have a friend who was an early adopter
of Bose's entry in that field and loves it; my experiments with cheaper
knock-offs have been in conclusive (they definitely make a random-noise
environment such as a shopping mall sound _different_ but I'm not
convinced they actually make it less distracting).

Haven't checked the eBay link so I have no opinion about that particular
unit.
Anonymous
May 23, 2005 12:34:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.opinion,alt.music-lover.audiophile.hardware,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

Well the general climate of opinion seems to be that EITHER they are
impossibly difficult to fit into the ear properly OR that they are too heavy
to stay in for longer than a few seconds

No one has given an opinion on quality yet: The highs and mid range seems to
be OK but they might be a bit lacking in bass OR possibly the iPod Mini
doesnt put out enough to drive the bass drivers in there?

> Haven't checked the eBay link so I have no opinion about that particular
> unit.
Anonymous
May 23, 2005 1:08:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.opinion,alt.music-lover.audiophile.hardware,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

"news.rcn.com" <news.rnc.com> wrote in message
news:X-qdnaClpL53UAzfRVn-rw@rcn.net...

> Well the general climate of opinion seems to be that
EITHER they are
> impossibly difficult to fit into the ear properly OR that
they are too heavy
> to stay in for longer than a few seconds

I already have about a quart of IEMs in a gallon plastic
bag, and some of them sound pretty darn good to me. So, I'm
trying very hard not to buy any more. I just bought a pair
of Panasonic IEMs because I ended up in Manhattan for 3 days
with my Nomad3 and darn it, no 'phones. Dummm! I'm not
going to buy a pair of the Philips IEMs we've been
discussing just to find out what is wrong with them. I'm
promising myself that! ;-)

As a rule IEMs aren't inherently heavy or hard to fit. Fit
is probably the most variable part of the sound quality and
comfort equation. Basically, moderately tight is good, very
loose is bad. Some people get along with this better than
others. If you can learn to live with it, so much the
better.

> No one has given an opinion on quality yet: The highs and
mid range seems to
> be OK but they might be a bit lacking in bass

This is either a design problem or a problem with fit. Some
IEMs, particularly the cheap ones, are light on bass.
However, even the good IEMs can be light on bass if the tips
don't fit the ear tightly enough.


> OR possibly the iPod Mini
> doesnt put out enough to drive the bass drivers in there?

There's no bass driver in low and mid-price IEMs. They do
it all with one itty-bitty driver. The most common symptom
of a a digital player that can't handle the load of the IEM
is for the sound to completely cut out at times. This
symptom seems to be very infrequently reported with Shure
IEMs, and even less frequently with competitive units.
Anonymous
June 11, 2005 1:10:22 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.opinion,alt.music-lover.audiophile.hardware,rec.audio.tech (More info?)

I try a lot of earphone from different manufacturer but nothing was ok with
my ear morphology. I have a type of ears that simply can't hold an earphone.
So i search the web and found ET6 earphone plug. I find it expensive so i
continue my search and found that Radio Shack was selling a very similar
product with silicone plug i bought those and voila the earphone stick
inside the ear conduit. The sound is very good and i can walk no problema. I
even can listen radio ear with earphone on the pillow without disconfort. So
they are my favorite earphones that i use with my new iRiver 799 1Gig Mp3
Player.
Great combinaison
JP

"news.rcn.com" <news.rnc.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
16Gdnbcsutmn-RbfRVn-hw@rcn.net...
> Has anyone ever traced any independent comparative reviews of small
> headphones which are suitable for use with an outdoors device such as an
> iPod?
>
> Not sure if noise canceling is the way to go to get ANY dynamic range at
all
> or if the statements by the manufacturers (such as Shure) about plugging
the
> ear obviates noise canceling technology. Sounds a bit simplistic to me,
> especially as I occasionally use them in aircraft where they DO seem to be
> useful
>
> I have three pairs of phones: A Sony NC which gives no dynamic range or
low
> end, NoiseBusters which performs better than the others in all areas
> principally because they are mediocre in all of them and Philips NC60
which
> have OK high end but no low end at all and virtually no noise cancellation
> (I even switched them with the manufacturer because I thought that they
> weren't working at first until a second one did the same thing) Also they
> have a slight tendency to fall out of the ear all the time which can be a
> bit of a disadvantage
>
>
!