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T610 battery

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Anonymous
January 23, 2005 3:04:12 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.ericsson (More info?)

Hi,

I bought T610 and have just one question - how nust I charge mobile phone
that battery last as long os possible?
- e.g.4 hours, mobile phone must be turned off, charging onlywhen it turns
off by itself ets???

Please email me at iipsa@isokn.hr
Regards

Isabella

More about : t610 battery

Anonymous
January 23, 2005 6:08:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.ericsson (More info?)

Thus spake Isabella:
> Hi,
>
> I bought T610 and have just one question - how nust I charge mobile
> phone that battery last as long os possible?
> - e.g.4 hours, mobile phone must be turned off, charging onlywhen it
> turns off by itself ets???
>
> Please email me at iipsa@isokn.hr
> Regards
>
> Isabella

Initially charge the battery overnight a couple of times. Li ion need
charging a few times to get full capacity. Standby time should increase from
new then level off.

Li ion batteries are pretty robust in that they can withstand being charged
regularly well before they're fully discharged. There's no benefit from
running them down until the phone switches itself off for instance or always
running them down to say, one bar. Running them down low once or twice a
fortnight & recharging as desired in between is probably the best way. Don't
be a slave to a particular routine, it's not needed.

However, it was recommended to always charge the battery with the phone
switched on with earlier models so the phone's electronics & not just the
chip in the battery can intelligently manage charging. I don't know if this
still applies to current SE models but I would still assume so & always (or
mostly) charge with the T610 powered up.

I can't comment on how repeated charging from a car's lighter socket will
effect how long the battery will last before it noticeably drops standby
time, I've heard they recharge far quicker by design but may stress the
battery in the process. Li ion batteries do wear out gracefully I hear - no
sudden death.

The connector on the bottom of SE phones isn't their best design feature -
if the phone doesn't seem to be charging when 1st plugged in, rock the
connector up & down gently.
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January 24, 2005 12:03:43 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.ericsson (More info?)

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 15:08:06 -0000, "Paul Busby" <me@privacy.net>
wrote:

>Initially charge the battery overnight a couple of times.

Not needed, applies to NiMH.


>Running them down low once or twice a
>fortnight & recharging as desired in between is probably the best way.

No, it's not a good idea. You'll shorten the life expectancy or even
damage the cell. Although it's true if you're talking about a NiMH
battery.


>However, it was recommended to always charge the battery with the phone
>switched on with earlier models so the phone's electronics & not just the
>chip in the battery can intelligently manage charging. I don't know if this
>still applies to current SE models but I would still assume so & always (or
>mostly) charge with the T610 powered up.

???? The phone is not totally turned off and the recharging
electronics in phone is, OF COURSE, always running, with the phone on
OR off.


>I can't comment on how repeated charging from a car's lighter socket will
>effect how long the battery will last before it noticeably drops standby
>time, I've heard they recharge far quicker by design but may stress the
>battery in the process.

???? again
1. The recharging circuit of the phone is normally fed with a voltage
somewhere between 5 and 17 V.
2. The phone itself transforms the voltage to suit the cell.
3. The circuits in the Li-Ione cell then masters the actual recharge.




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Anonymous
January 24, 2005 1:21:47 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.ericsson (More info?)

Thus spake BG:
>> Initially charge the battery overnight a couple of times.
>
> Not needed, applies to NiMH.

Sorry not true, most batteries with the possible exception lead acid will
benefit from a couple of initial discharge/recharge cycles. With Li ion
batteries, they get to full capacity quickly. I personally don't
purposefully discharge Li ion battery packs but my usage sometimes dictates
I get down to say 1 bar on the meter. It does no harm, just topping them up
daily also does no harm. In other words, Li ion batteries don't really need
any special care & are far more forgiving than NiMH.

>> Running them down low once or twice a
>> fortnight & recharging as desired in between is probably the best
>> way.
>
> No, it's not a good idea. You'll shorten the life expectancy or even
> damage the cell. Although it's true if you're talking about a NiMH
> battery.

Again, not true. Most mobile phone Li ion battery packs have electronics in
them to disconnect themselves before damage happens. Naked Li ion cells
should indeed not be fully discharged, the same for lead acid.

>> However, it was recommended to always charge the battery with the
>> phone switched on with earlier models so the phone's electronics &
>> not just the chip in the battery can intelligently manage charging.
>> I don't know if this still applies to current SE models but I would
>> still assume so & always (or mostly) charge with the T610 powered up.
>
> ???? The phone is not totally turned off and the recharging
> electronics in phone is, OF COURSE, always running, with the phone on
> OR off.

Then why the hell did Ericsson for example, recommend leaving the phone ON?
However, as stated in my original reply, newer models may have all of the
battery management circuitry active or they may not, especially if they try
to store the state of charge in memory. This was discussed here a couple of
years back IIRC, with T28/39 batteries.

>> I can't comment on how repeated charging from a car's lighter socket
>> will effect how long the battery will last before it noticeably
>> drops standby time, I've heard they recharge far quicker by design
>> but may stress the battery in the process.
>
> ???? again
> 1. The recharging circuit of the phone is normally fed with a voltage
> somewhere between 5 and 17 V.
> 2. The phone itself transforms the voltage to suit the cell.
> 3. The circuits in the Li-Ione cell then masters the actual recharge.

Care to explain why several people have stated that their phone charges
quicker from their car's battery than when mains charging? I would guess
this is a deliberate design feature. I'm left feeling that you are
nit-picking!

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January 24, 2005 3:31:14 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.ericsson (More info?)

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 22:21:47 -0000, "Paul Busby" <me@privacy.net>
wrote:

<- snip ->

> I'm left feeling that you are nit-picking!

Pity you're not focused on the arguments.


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Anonymous
January 24, 2005 4:36:58 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.ericsson (More info?)

Thus spake BG:
> On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 22:21:47 -0000, "Paul Busby" <me@privacy.net>
> wrote:
>
> <- snip ->
>
>> I'm left feeling that you are nit-picking!
>
> Pity you're not focused on the arguments.

WTF? You are quoting out of context. What about the rest of my reply? Unless
you've replied via email only to the OP, all you've achieved is to confuse
the issue, in other words, your priority seems to be arguing with me rather
than actually helping the OP or anyone else reading this.

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January 24, 2005 7:40:43 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.ericsson (More info?)

On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 22:21:47 -0000, "Paul Busby" <me@privacy.net>
wrote:

<- snip ->

> I'm left feeling that you are nit-picking!

If you're interrested in getting some facts about rechargeable cells
and batteries, have a look at

http://homepage.te.hik.se/personal/tryca/battery/abstra...
http://www.batteryuniversity.com
http://www.buchmann.ca
http://www.cadex.com
http://www.sandia.gov/news-center/news-releases/2003/re...
http://www.powerstream.com/BatteryFAQ.html
http://www.powerstream.com/li.htm
http://www.apple.com/batteries/

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January 24, 2005 8:08:25 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.ericsson (More info?)

On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 13:36:58 -0000, "Paul Busby" <me@privacy.net>
wrote:
>Thus spake BG:
>> On Sun, 23 Jan 2005 22:21:47 -0000, "Paul Busby" <me@privacy.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> <- snip ->
>>
>>> I'm left feeling that you are nit-picking!
>>
>> Pity you're not focused on the arguments.
>
>WTF? You are quoting out of context. What about the rest of my reply?

Yes, what about it?

>Unless you've replied via email only to the OP,

Of course I have! She/he asked for it. Why shouldn't I? Do you want me
to post my answer here, too, to correct your errors?

> all you've achieved is to confuse the issue,

Read the web sites I posted and see who is confusing!

>in other words, your priority seems to be arguing with me

You're trying lower the level of debate. I'm not interrested. As up to
now, I have refused to "argue" with you. Why should I? I'm ONLY
interrested in facts, very little in your potentially hurt ego.

> rather than actually helping the OP or anyone else reading this.

That's what I did when I tried to stop you spreading
missunderstandings.


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Anonymous
January 25, 2005 11:11:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.ericsson (More info?)

Thus spake BG:
>> Unless you've replied via email only to the OP,
>
> Of course I have! She/he asked for it. Why shouldn't I? Do you want me
> to post my answer here, too, to correct your errors?

Of course I do. Why just give the OP the benefit of your superior knowledge?
If I've disseminated incorrect information, you wouldn't want anyone else
following this thread to be misinformed any more than I (as if you gave a
fig for my ego & of course you don't have one). As for the links, why didn't
you post them in your 1st reply? I was wondering when you would proffer
some.

Anyhow, enough of this sparring for the moment. My interest in secondary
cell technology was rekindled when a guy I worked with complained that the
NiMH batteries he was using were inferior to Ni-Cad equivalents
(higher/lower internal resistance). I was also interested in de-passivation
of Li ion batteries as I'd heard so little mention of it.

Reading some of the links was very interesting but not always that
consistent; the charge current variation (fractions of C) depended on the
site (possibly taken from different manufacturer's data sheets). Your 1st
link, although not the most relevant, covered the environmental impact of
manufacturing, transporting, ROI etc - nice to know that someone bothered to
do this research. Also great to hear that Sandia Labs are developing better
composite anode material - all very exciting & hopefully will lead to
greater capacities.

Probably the most useful link was:
http://www.batteryuniversity.com/
Where it suggests in more than one article that Li ion batteries don't need
preconditioning & the instructions to do so in mobile phone manuals are a
hangover from NiMH. I'd admit this guy probably knows far more than me &
perhaps you on the subject but this still fails to explain why many mobile
users comment that full capacity is reached /after/ a couple of recharge
cycles. A friend recently mentioned this with his new SPV-C500. I jokingly
said it was because he was playing with it more (new toy) - he refuted this
due to being far too busy to do so when new to the phone.

--
Thank people in advance? Thanking or cursing them afterwards at least
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January 26, 2005 12:03:46 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.ericsson (More info?)

Ok, here's a copy of my email to OP

>You can charge your Li-Pol cell just as you feel like. Some scientists
>claim you could let it run low, maybe once a month, by letting your
>phone turn off itself. Other scientists say that the latest versions of
> Li-Pol cells don´t need any special handling.

>If you discharge the cell outside of the phone, say with a bulb, you
>will most probably destroy the cell.

>Built into the cells is an intelligent circuit which masters the charging,
> so you don't have to care.

>After you have started to use the cell you'll notice an increasing
>standby time. After appr 5 recharging cycles the cell would have
> reached the nominal capacity.

Happy now?


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Anonymous
January 26, 2005 1:29:04 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.ericsson (More info?)

Thus spake BG:
> Ok, here's a copy of my email to OP
>
>> You can charge your Li-Pol cell just as you feel like. Some
>> scientists claim you could let it run low, maybe once a month, by
>> letting your
>> phone turn off itself. Other scientists say that the latest versions
>> of Li-Pol cells don´t need any special handling.
>
>> If you discharge the cell outside of the phone, say with a bulb, you
>> will most probably destroy the cell.
>
>> Built into the cells is an intelligent circuit which masters the
>> charging, so you don't have to care.
>
>> After you have started to use the cell you'll notice an increasing
>> standby time. After appr 5 recharging cycles the cell would have
>> reached the nominal capacity.
>
> Happy now?
>

Ecstatic. So, apart from my advice suggesting that the phone be left
overnight (probably pointless, not deleterious) you managed to say
essentially the same thing & berate my post at the same time. How
wonderfully arrogant.

As for car charging, it would be quite feasible for the phone to detect a
higher applied voltage & increase the initial charge current say from 0.8C
to 1C without overcharging but at the possible risk of /slightly/ lowering
the life of the battery - I'm not saying this is the case, I'm not privy to
proprietary information on how the charging circuit works in specific
models. As for over-discharging, the phone & battery combo should cut the
drain or terminate the charging cycle if left on charge overnight. In other
words Li ion batteries don't really need any particular charge/discharge
pattern which is what I said! My advice to charge with the phone on (which
was qualified) seems even sounder having read your links.
--
Thank people in advance? Thanking or cursing them afterwards at least
gives some feedback!
January 26, 2005 4:19:29 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.ericsson (More info?)

"Paul Busby" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:35nvheF4n7o3oU1@individual.net...
> Thus spake BG:
> > Ok, here's a copy of my email to OP
> >
> >> You can charge your Li-Pol cell just as you feel like. Some
> >> scientists claim you could let it run low, maybe once a month, by
> >> letting your
> >> phone turn off itself. Other scientists say that the latest versions
> >> of Li-Pol cells don´t need any special handling.
> >
> >> If you discharge the cell outside of the phone, say with a bulb, you
> >> will most probably destroy the cell.
> >
> >> Built into the cells is an intelligent circuit which masters the
> >> charging, so you don't have to care.
> >
> >> After you have started to use the cell you'll notice an increasing
> >> standby time. After appr 5 recharging cycles the cell would have
> >> reached the nominal capacity.
> >
> > Happy now?
> >
>
> Ecstatic. So, apart from my advice suggesting that the phone be left
> overnight (probably pointless, not deleterious) you managed to say
> essentially the same thing & berate my post at the same time. How
> wonderfully arrogant.
>
> As for car charging, it would be quite feasible for the phone to detect a
> higher applied voltage & increase the initial charge current say from 0.8C
> to 1C without overcharging but at the possible risk of /slightly/ lowering
> the life of the battery - I'm not saying this is the case, I'm not privy
to
> proprietary information on how the charging circuit works in specific
> models. As for over-discharging, the phone & battery combo should cut the
> drain or terminate the charging cycle if left on charge overnight. In
other
> words Li ion batteries don't really need any particular charge/discharge
> pattern which is what I said! My advice to charge with the phone on (which
> was qualified) seems even sounder having read your links.
> --
> Thank people in advance? Thanking or cursing them afterwards at least
> gives some feedback!
>
>
Can I ask both of you a question? I had a Moto Mpx 200 that had a terrible
battery life (Li Ion) Orange UK said in there manual to originally charge
for up to 4hrs. When I complained about the battery life (less than 1 day
with 45minutes talktime) C/S sent me a new battery to try. In the American
manual it stated to charge for 15hrs for the first charge so I tried that
and got another half day out of that battery (the phone was switched off
overnight). Still no use to me but there was an noticeable improvement
giving the longer original charge. Different users in different countries
were getting different results from the phones battery life and I have since
stuck to the 15hr first charge and had good results from all my Li ion
batteries. Why the difference?
--

DaveT
Anonymous
January 27, 2005 12:11:34 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.ericsson (More info?)

Thus spake DaveT:
<Snipped>
> Can I ask both of you a question? I had a Moto Mpx 200 that had a
> terrible battery life (Li Ion) Orange UK said in there manual to
> originally charge for up to 4hrs. When I complained about the battery
> life (less than 1 day with 45minutes talktime) C/S sent me a new
> battery to try. In the American manual it stated to charge for 15hrs
> for the first charge so I tried that and got another half day out of
> that battery (the phone was switched off overnight). Still no use to
> me but there was an noticeable improvement giving the longer original
> charge. Different users in different countries were getting different
> results from the phones battery life and I have since stuck to the
> 15hr first charge and had good results from all my Li ion batteries.
> Why the difference? --
>
> DaveT

New Li ion batteries /should/ be shipped with a 40% charge, IIRC. This will
allow for self-discharge not to drop the cell voltage below the threshold
where damage will occur & recharging won't even start. Li ion batteries do
retain a charge far better than either Ni-Cad or NiMH do (much lower
self-discharge). All Li ion batteries packs have some sort of protection
circuitry (a fuse & basic over & under-voltage protection). This is why
these batteries have higher internal resistance than Ni-Cads do. The phone
(well, some, if not all models) also have charge management circuitry that
can remember the depth of the previous charge to optimise the next one &
prevent over-charging, thus helping to lengthen their life, hence my
original suggestion of keeping the phone on when charging.

The only reasons I can think of is that the American manual was written for
NiMH batteries but were shipped with Li ion instead (not that they would be
interchangeable unless they detect the battery type - unlikely) or they
believe that Li ion batteries DO benefit from a single long initial charge
(top-up charge?) or possibly just to get users to charge them fully, rather
than being absolutely necessary. Your experience with lengthy initial
charging has also been mentioned by others & was the reason I suggested it
in my 1st reply, even if contrary to what some insiders believe.

My experience, also mirrored by others, is that these batteries don't retain
their nominal capacity until they've been recharged a few times - another
possible reason to encourage users to not skimp on doing so initially. Are
you giving these batteries time to gain full capacity? If you indeed are;
the phone, the same batch of batteries or even the charger maybe faulty. If
it's possible to discern a batch or date code on the 2 batteries, this may
help to eliminate them as being faulty if the same.

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Anonymous
January 27, 2005 12:48:35 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.ericsson (More info?)

Thus spake Paul Busby:
> this may help to eliminate them as
> being faulty if the same.

Should read:
this may help to eliminate them as being faulty if different.

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January 30, 2005 8:29:26 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.ericsson (More info?)

On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 22:29:04 -0000, "Paul Busby" <me@privacy.net>
wrote:

<- snip ->

>How wonderfully arrogant.

Not a very constructuve line of debating. If you want to insult me,
please stick to emails!

It's NOT very funny for other readers...

I thought it was all about batteries.... not hurt egos...

I end my part of the discission here with you. If you want to go on
with your nit-picking, it will be without me. My ONLY interrest is
exchanging knowledge related to this news group.


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