So I just installed an Audigy...

FatBurger

Illustrious
I mentioned this a while back, but I traded sound cards with a roomate (just moved in this weekend). He has an Audigy OEM, I of course have a GTXP (though now the opposite).

Installation was fine, it doesn't look like there are any driver conflicts (I didn't do anything to remove the GTXP drivers, even though I know I should).

My main reason for doing this is to experience Advanced HD. I've only played GTA3, but I thought that might be a good example, and it's the game I'm currently playing the most right now anyway.

Advanced HD is a great technology. It pleasantly surprised me, though it isn't quite as good as some have made it out to be (again, I'm basing this on a single game at the moment). It adds a new level of realism, and definitely complements the effects already in EAX/EAX 2.

That said, I still wouldn't buy or recommend the Audigy just for EAX Advanced HD. When other cards come out with it, then I'll look to upgrade. Advanced HD just doesn't make up for the Audigy's other downfalls.

<font color=blue>Hi mom!</font color=blue>
 
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Would you by chance be running winXP?

I'm really thinking hard about a new soundcard. Right now It's probably somwhere between an Audigy and a GTXP or TBSC.

More than anything I just want full game compatibility, but system deependency weighs in heavily for me too.

I will be using the SPDIF (or other?) digital link to hook it directly to an external Dolby Digital decoder, so don't care much about analog outputs.

Would just buy the Audigy but: have a bad compatibility taste left in my mouth left from my SBLive. Not to sure I trust creative enough to give them more money. Also I keep hearing many unsettling rmors about PCI bus hogging, or something like that.

Would just go buy the SC but: I haven't been able to convince myself that this is any more/less stable than the GTXP, audigy under winXP. How about game compatibility, does it need new drivers every week just to play the new games? The hardware sure looks nice on these (GTXP, and TBSC), but how about the drivers? Did I ask which card has the best drivers?
 

williamc

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I have almost every worthy game known under the Sun at home. Everything i've thrown at the GTXP with 4.10 drivers has worked perfectly on the GTXP, including all the new ones like JK2, Ghost Recon, FS 2002, Combat FS 2, SoF2, and GTA3. Plays movies fantastically and comes with a very nice full version of PowerDVD. The only games i've heard of it having problems with are operation flashpoint and the Infinite engine games (Baldurs gate series). Tell ya what though, Flashpoint was one of my favorite games of all time when i played it back when i had the audigy was when it came out. I'll reinstall it tonight and see if it works on the latest drivers for me or not. Will post back tonight or tomorrow on that game.

I am running strictly windows xp pro. Audigy and GTXP both ran on it. GTXP is, however, admitted more stable i believe.

edit: if you have SoF2, install the OpenAL executable on the CD for eax to work on non-audigy cards, with that installed the game sounds incredible on the GTXP. absolutely incredible, and still runs super smooth on my 1.7 p4.

The itsy bitsy spider climbed up the empires state building, along came goblin, wiped the spider out<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by williamc on 06/17/02 04:15 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
 

FatBurger

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I'm in pretty much the same boat as williamc. Every game I've thrown at it has performed perfectly, from GTA3 and Morrowind back to Worms World Party.

As for the Audigy, it's been running perfectly fine so far, but I've only played one game for about an hour, so I can't give a full opinion yet.

<font color=blue>Hi mom!</font color=blue>
 

ritesh_laud

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Would just buy the Audigy but: have a bad compatibility taste left in my mouth left from my SBLive. Not to sure I trust creative enough to give them more money. Also I keep hearing many unsettling rmors about PCI bus hogging, or something like that.
Do you by chance have a VIA chipset? If so, I would save yourself some potential headaches and avoid the Audigy. It has some "issues" with VIA, just like the Live!.

Ritesh
 
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Anybody ever compare the GTXP with the Turtlle Beach Santa CRuz in XP, like for support and compatibility? That is all I really need hardware wise, but I would spend the extra money for the GTXP iuf there were any tangible benefits other than the breakout box.
 
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Actually I ran it with a BX chipset Tyan Tiger for the longest time, and just recently switched to this IWILL XP333 (ALI chipset). The incompatibilities I mentioned were really quite rare and far between, but stayed with me when I switched systems, basically the only things I've carried over are the live and my old SCSI setup. It's not that common, but when it affects a game you play well....

There are several microsoft (motocross madness 2, crimson skies etc) games which I've just never gotten to work well in any configuration with my SBLive. It makes a kind of loose connection kinda sound, but only when all the graphical details and everything are cranked up.

Don't take this as scientific proof of anything, but I've just had this feeling that I may be experiencing the rough edges of whatever this PCI bandwidth sharing issue might cause.
 

FatBurger

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If you took away the breakout box, the Santa Cruz would be a slightly better card, both because of the drivers and manufacturing quality. I bought the GTXP over the Santa Cruz because of the breakout box, nothing else.

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From there I guess it's a no brainer.

Thanks everybody for your time, and words of wisdom.
 

kinney

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I have had multiple Lives in multiple via/sis/amd/nvidia chipsets (all i run is amd processors) and no problems.

I have had problems with the audigy in the past but right now I am running my audigy on a kt266a (fairly new via chipset), with no problems in any games.

Athlon XP 1700+,KT266A,Geforce3, Audigy.. 'nuff said.
 

Crashman

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Former Staff
Haven't heard any 3D positioning yet that beats A3D 2.0. After all these years, you would think Creative would have cought up! No wonder they went to such great expense to bankrupt the company!

What's the frequency, Kenneth?
 

ritesh_laud

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I have had multiple Lives in multiple via/sis/amd/nvidia chipsets (all i run is amd processors) and no problems.
Clearly I didn't say that everyone with VIA chipsets has a problem with Creative cards. But the evidence is out there, these conflicts do occur alarmingly often. In fact there was a recent thread on THG about someone with a KT266A who was having instability problems with his Audigy. It seems to happen when certain other cards are sitting on the PCI bus at the same time as the Live! or Audigy, and then VIA's bugs in the Southbridge cause the instability. These conflicts with even VIA's latest chipsets (like the KT333) have been proven time and again. The latest 4-in-1s don't fix the situation.

Ritesh
 

ritesh_laud

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Haven't heard any 3D positioning yet that beats A3D 2.0.
I assume you mean with two speakers or headphones. With four speakers, it is impossible for any 4-channel sound card to have worse positioning than any other, unless they royally screwed up the basic function of where to send the sound signal. In the Creative applet when you do the speaker test, the voice says: Left Channel, Center, Right Channel, Rear Left, Rear Right. Guess what, that's exactly where the sounds come from!! Therefore, if a game sends a sound to the Rear Left speaker, *that's where it goes*. There's no such thing as inferior positioning with four speakers.

Also, there's no such thing as "3D" positioning with current technology. It's 2D. True 3D sound is only possible with a speaker above you on the ceiling and one under you on the floor. Otherwise, the vertical direction is simulated with algorithms which are only effective in fooling some people (my ears don't like algorithms).

Ritesh
 

williamc

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You have the bloody densest head in the world. I assume Crashman means exactly what he said, cause i tend to agree wholeheartedly. A3D kicks creative's arse.

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williamc

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knewton, The GTXP/SC still have a minor problem with Operation flashpoint, if you enable EAX you get some constant background noises which are kinda bothersome. However, Op Flashpoint sounds just great without eax enabled so no biggie for me, you can still enable hardware sound processing (directsound hardware) so you'll get great positioning just not the environmental effects which arent all that in op flashpoint anyhow.

So, if you don't play the baldur's gate series of games then there's nothing keeping anyone from using GTXP/SC these days, they work great with everything else far as i know, i've thrown around 100 games at it without a real problem.

The itsy bitsy spider climbed up the empires state building, along came goblin, wiped the spider out
 

FatBurger

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<i>Knewton says:</i>
From there I guess it's a no brainer.

So I assume you're going for the Santa Cruz?

<i>kinney says:</i>
I have had multiple Lives in multiple via/sis/amd/nvidia chipsets (all i run is amd processors) and no problems.

I didn't have any problems with my Live on my KT7a-RAID, either. Well...I didn't have any hardware compatability problems.

<i>Crashman says:</i>
Haven't heard any 3D positioning yet that beats A3D 2.0.

I think I'll put one of my Vortex2's back in when I'm done with the Audigy. GTA3 supports A3D2.0, so I can use the same game to test.

<i>ritesh_laud says:</i>
Also, there's no such thing as "3D" positioning with current technology.

Can you explain how I know whether something is above or below me, using only headphones? It's obviously simulated, but it sounds perfect.

<i>ritesh_laud says:</i>
Otherwise, the vertical direction is simulated with algorithms which are only effective in fooling some people (my ears don't like algorithms).

And that's true. Which cards have you listened to the positioning on, though? Some are of course better than others.

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ritesh_laud

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I assume Crashman means exactly what he said, cause i tend to agree wholeheartedly. A3D kicks creative's arse.
Lol, I've owned and heavily used three A3D cards for at least eight months *each* (Monster Sound, MX200, MX300). I assure you that the Audigy sounds much better in gaming. :)

Ritesh
 

ritesh_laud

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Can you explain how I know whether something is above or below me, using only headphones? It's obviously simulated, but it sounds perfect.
I too have heard this with headphones, in both music and gaming. Unfortunately, to my ears the actual position of the source on the screen almost never corresponded to where I heard it. I'd hear something above me when in fact it was right behind me. Or vice versa. It was never consistent and that's why I threw simulated 3D sound out the window along with the A3D cards I had.

In music it can actually be pretty cool though! I have distinctly heard a sound above me on some music: try Joe Walsh's "Life's Been Good To Me So Far", right at the very end around when the ducks are quacking and at one point one literally sounded like it went right over my head.

I don't remember ever distinctly hearing sound on a vertical soundstage *with speakers*, however.

And that's true. Which cards have you listened to the positioning on, though? Some are of course better than others.
Several different chips with the notable exception of your supreme panacea of positional audio, the vaunted Sensaura sound chip. It's irrevelant anyway: I use four speakers (well actually five but the center doesn't really count for positioning) and hence for me there are no positional issues with any decent soundcard. EAX is simply a reverb layer on top of the basic DirectSound audio structure and exaggerates depth to deliver more impact. EAX HD adds occlusion and a few other things to the mix to add realism. Different soundcards handle EAX differently, but the basic positioning in 4-speaker mode is the same regardless of sound card, because of DirectSound.

Ritesh
 

williamc

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And as mentioned above your ears don't like what most other people claim is great sound.

I've had Vortex cards and i've had the audigy, and i have the GTXP. And I, in complete contradiction to you, wholeheartedly state that Vortex A3D beats Creative EAX.

Ritesh, if you wanna beleive to your death that the audigy is king and ruler of the earth, well, fine, do so. But there's alot of guys out here with some very nice audio equipment and a good bit of sound experience and knowlege that completely disagree with you.

I fail to see how you can possibly assure anyone that the Audigy the best in this case. I am getting absolutely disgusted with reading half of your threads which say in reply to me "You fail to post any links to back your arguements" and the other half saying "The audigy is far superior than A3D or SAnta cruz for gaming". Stick it up your backside already, your welcome to your opinion but you gotta realize, not even MOST people will agree with you. And as far as i know you STILL havn't actually tried a SC or GTXP on your pc. Wake up and smell the napalm.

Argh, i get so frustrated with people who do nothing but shove one item out in front of everyone and preach its greatness all day long while consistently ignoring everyone else's very qualified opinions.

I, Crashman, and many many others are firmly planted in the belief that Aureal technology beats creative's technology. And yes, we to have heard both.

And one other thing, Your audigy does more wacky processing and algorithm processing to sound than any other card yet you love it and at the same time bash A3D for using algorithmis when processing sound. This whole argument is utterly insane, do you even know what an algorithm is? Its basically a process which yields a solution. When people program they are creating algorithms to solve problems and complete tasks. "Algorithm's" have nothing to do with sound, they're just lines of code. I guaranfrickingtee your audigy uses algorithms in the code in its drivers to produce your lovely sound, just like Aureal drivers do. They're just different drivers with different code. There's nothing inherantly funny being done to your sound on Auearl cards that isnt being done on Creative cards.

And i'm sick of ranting now, god this ticks me off reading these insane replies which strike me as blatantly fanboyish.

Like i've said before, if you like it fine, but don't begrude other people their own qualified opinions.

edit: and in your next post you say several things blatently wrong. Sensura chips have better positioning than Creative's live and audigy, i don't see that is possible to argue this fact, its rather measureable in fact when you compare them on the same setup. Position of the sound is processed by the chipset which is obvsiously different from card to card and can be better on some than others. If you threw 3d sound out the windows then why do you still have an audigy in your case? The whole point of EAX and A3D is 3d positional audio, which you seem to love on the audigy and hate on everything else. fine, thats you, but its still 3d positional audio sound, the 3d can refer to the depth of the sound as well such as the environmental effects applied by both EAX and A3D.

The itsy bitsy spider climbed up the empires state building, along came goblin, wiped the spider out
 
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Well a buddies been trying to get me into OP Flashpoint, too bad about the EAX. Oh well I guess nobody is completely perfect.
 
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Yeah, Santa Cruz. I've thought about it for a while now, that looks like the card for me.

A biggie for me has been the overall system performance enhancement hardware. There looks to be some neat stuff in those with regards to data handling.

Even if I've made a wrong choice, then at least I'm learning, but it looks like these cards are a damn fine choice.

If only the phillips line were more compatible with games. Oh well, it seems like the world still has a tough choice to make between the SB's and the Cirrus chip based cards.
 

Crashman

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Former Staff
Actually, no. For games, an algorithm has to compute the position of the sound and distance. Further distance has to be quieter and with a different level of reverb to simulate echo, etc. It's not like a live recording where you can say "it was recorded on this channel, it will be played on this channel".

And yes, Aureal pioneered the simulation of multiple speaker directions from a pair of speakers, but it still sounds better with four on the Aureal cards.

What's the frequency, Kenneth?
 

williamc

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Well, like i said, Op flashpoint sounds fine without the EAX enabled, There's really not much EAX programmed in there in the first place. What is there is just EAX 1.0 and its all rather wide open anyhow in the game so there's no reverb to be had even if it did work. Seeing as the game is all outdoors on islands in the pacific there's little room for reverb either=) I heartily recommend the game even on a Santa Cruz, best combat action avialable in my opinion.

The itsy bitsy spider climbed up the empires state building, along came goblin, wiped the spider out<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by williamc on 06/18/02 04:04 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
 

Crashman

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Aureal's biggest mistake in preserving their technology was that they should have licenced out everything to another company BEFORE the bankrucy, instead of going bankrupt and letting Creative buy/seal it.

What's the frequency, Kenneth?
 

williamc

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Yea, i'll agree to that one... Its a cryin shame their tech didnt keep getting moved foward. We're seeing the effects of no real competition to creative's EAX now... Things are getting rather stale in the sound market.

The itsy bitsy spider climbed up the empires state building, along came goblin, wiped the spider out