Mackie Big Knob?

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EricK wrote:

> Anyone have any first hand knowledge of the "Big Knob"?

http://www.mackie.com/pdf/bigknob_om.pdf

--
ha

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<< Why mixer designers feel it's
necessary to *ever* send the talkback mic to the studio monitor buss
is beyond me. >>

In my experience the studio monitor and the control room monitor is different.
As people in the studio may not always have their headphones on having the
option to have talk back in the room is a good thing.



---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

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In article <1gh7ohg.1nc0dmo2u1jviN%walkinay@thegrid.net> walkinay@thegrid.net writes:

> http://www.mackie.com/pdf/bigknob_om.pdf

So you're saying that Mackie has first hand knowledge of the Big Knob?
Very clever observation.




--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

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In article <51hqf0dthjqo0dmcd4rt45ea2d4h41f0q0@4ax.com> deepthrob@hotmail.com writes:

> Another dumb talk back implementation. Why mixer designers feel it's
> necessary to *ever* send the talkback mic to the studio monitor buss
> is beyond me.

Do you mean that, or do you mean the control room monitor bus?

You sent talkback to the studio bacause that's where the musicians
you're talking to are. Real studios have speakers in the studio so the
musicians can hear playback (and talkback) without coming into the
control room. You send talkback to the "aux" buses (headphone outputs
in this case) because some of the musicians wear headphones. You send
it to the main outputs because you can use it to slate a take.

You don't send talkback to the control room monitors because it will
feed back. But you DO dim the control room monitors since the studio
mics are often up, and if the talkback mic picks them up and sends
them back to the studio monitor speakers (or sometimes even headphones
if there's enough gain) you'll get feedback through that path.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

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Mike Rivers wrote:

> > http://www.mackie.com/pdf/bigknob_om.pdf
>
> So you're saying that Mackie has first hand knowledge of the Big Knob?
> Very clever observation.


But it's alleged that they tried to cover it up.

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EricK wrote:

> Thank you for the link, Hank. Don't know why I didn't think of that. Oh,
> wait, I did, a week ago. Couldn't find a definitive answer. Yes, maybe
> the answer is buried in the schematic. I must admit, my skills at
> reading schematics are rudimentary at best. That should not be reason to
> fault me for posting the question to the group.

I didn't intend to fault you in any way; I didn't have time to download
the manual and read it to see if I could find an answer. I saw no
mention that you'd found the manual, so I offered a pointer.

(Don't mind Mike; he tunes his banjo with WD40.)

--
ha

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<< Another dumb talk back implementation. Why mixer designers feel it's
necessary to *ever* send the talkback mic to the studio monitor buss
is beyond me. >>

Well, it's very hard for musicians who aren't using headphones (as in at least
50% of the acoustic sessions I do) to hear you when talkback DOESN'T go to the
studio monitors.

Scott Fraser

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In this place, Mike Rivers was recorded saying ...
>
> > (Don't mind Mike; he tunes his banjo with WD40.)
>
> I've thought of trying it on the banjo with the wood tuning pegs. They
> keep sticking. If only they'd stick with the banjo IN tune.

Mike - surely you know that WD40 will leave a sticky residue behind.

You should only use Kailube on an instrument as delicate as a banjo.

<VBG>

--

George
Newcastle, England

Problems worthy of attack
Prove their worth, by hitting back [Piet Hein]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Just goes to show how much I love my Soundtracs Solo. Proper talkback. And
still I walk out of the control room and talk to the musicians because they
can't see me since I don't have a control room window. They like it and I
like it.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:znr1090354812k@trad...
>
> In article <51hqf0dthjqo0dmcd4rt45ea2d4h41f0q0@4ax.com>
deepthrob@hotmail.com writes:
>
> > Another dumb talk back implementation. Why mixer designers feel it's
> > necessary to *ever* send the talkback mic to the studio monitor buss
> > is beyond me.
>
> Do you mean that, or do you mean the control room monitor bus?
>
> You sent talkback to the studio bacause that's where the musicians
> you're talking to are. Real studios have speakers in the studio so the
> musicians can hear playback (and talkback) without coming into the
> control room. You send talkback to the "aux" buses (headphone outputs
> in this case) because some of the musicians wear headphones. You send
> it to the main outputs because you can use it to slate a take.
>
> You don't send talkback to the control room monitors because it will
> feed back. But you DO dim the control room monitors since the studio
> mics are often up, and if the talkback mic picks them up and sends
> them back to the studio monitor speakers (or sometimes even headphones
> if there's enough gain) you'll get feedback through that path.
>
>
>
> --
> I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
> However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
> lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
> you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
> and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Or Truffles! <g>

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

"hank alrich" <walkinay@thegrid.net> wrote in message
news:1gh8wx2.wc5m0t1dwehizN%walkinay@thegrid.net...
> Mike Rivers <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote:
>
> > walkinay writes:
>
> > > http://www.mackie.com/pdf/bigknob_om.pdf
>
> > So you're saying that Mackie has first hand knowledge of the Big Knob?
>
> Just a so-called thought.
>
> > Very clever observation.
>
> Even a blind pig finds an acorn now and then.
>
> --
> ha

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<< << Another dumb talk back implementation. Why mixer designers feel it's
>necessary to *ever* send the talkback mic to the studio monitor buss
>is beyond me. >>
>

I did mean the control room monitors (but called studio monitors in
the Mackie guide).
I swear..... >>

OK, a reasonable outrage at an incorrect use of terminology by Mackie. In fact,
the talkback does not go to the control room speakers on this product, in any
of its several monitoring modes, nor have I seen any implementation of talkback
in any mixing desk that does.


Scott Fraser

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I thought I posted a follow up but maybe it didn't make it to Usenet,
it said this:

>Yes, you're correct of course. I was thrown off because the Mackie Operational Guide
>uses the term 'studio monitors' for both the control room monitors
>and the recording room monitors.

>A closer look at the block diagram shows that the talkback does not go to
>the Monitor A/B outputs so it's not critical that the control room monitors 'dim'.
>There is a mute switch but it's not activated by the TB.


On 21 Jul 2004 17:16:59 GMT, scotfraser@aol.com (ScotFraser) wrote:
>
>OK, a reasonable outrage at an incorrect use of terminology by Mackie. In fact,
>the talkback does not go to the control room speakers on this product, in any
>of its several monitoring modes, nor have I seen any implementation of talkback
>in any mixing desk that does.
>
>Scott Fraser

I've used a 24 ch Tascam (and I believe an older Mackie) that sent the
built in talkback mic only to the stereo output (?) and the front
panel headphone jack(?). There was no way to route it to an aux bus.

Frank /~ http://newmex.com/f10
@/

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Roger W. Norman wrote:
> Just goes to show how much I love my Soundtracs Solo. Proper
> talkback. And still I walk out of the control room and talk to the
> musicians because they can't see me since I don't have a control room
> window. They like it and I like it.

What ? They like it that you don't have a window, so can't see you unless
you take the trouble to walk out ...

;-)

geoff

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <20040721131659.15071.00000189@mb-m02.aol.com> scotfraser@aol.com writes:

>
>> I did mean the control room monitors (but called studio monitors in
>> the Mackie guide).
>> I swear..... >>
>
> OK, a reasonable outrage at an incorrect use of terminology by Mackie.

Things just haven't been the same around there since I left. At least
I got them to label the button "Polarity" instead of "Phase" on d8b
Version 3 software.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Who wants to look at me? Besides, I'm sitting in here shaking my head when
I hear mistakes, so I don't want them stopping because of me.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

"Geoff Wood" <geoff@paf.co.nz-nospam> wrote in message
news:qIzLc.9698$NA1.916653@news02.tsnz.net...
> Roger W. Norman wrote:
> > Just goes to show how much I love my Soundtracs Solo. Proper
> > talkback. And still I walk out of the control room and talk to the
> > musicians because they can't see me since I don't have a control room
> > window. They like it and I like it.
>
> What ? They like it that you don't have a window, so can't see you unless
> you take the trouble to walk out ...
>
> ;-)
>
> geoff
>
>

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Mike Rivers wrote:

>
> In article <1gh8wzq.1fu82yzuguunoN%walkinay@thegrid.net>
> walkinay@thegrid.net writes:
>
>> (Don't mind Mike; he tunes his banjo with WD40.)
>
> I've thought of trying it on the banjo with the wood tuning pegs. They
> keep sticking. If only they'd stick with the banjo IN tune.
>
>
> --
> I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
> However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
> lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
> you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
> and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo


Banjo?... In tune?...

Now THAT's funny!

I once read an interview with Jimmie Vaughn in which he said about the
Fabulous Thunderbirds, "We have two Fenders & a harmonica, so it's rare
that we ever get really in tune."

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<< I've used a 24 ch Tascam (and I believe an older Mackie) that sent the
built in talkback mic only to the stereo output (?) and the front
panel headphone jack(?). There was no way to route it to an aux bus. >>

Did they have a separate control room feed? Sounds more like a PA desk, & a not
very versatile one at that.


Scott Fraser

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

ScotFraser wrote:
> I personally am extremely pleased that talkback does not dim the monitors
> because it is now possible to carry on a 2 way conversation with the talent
> while the producer is mindlessly holding the talkback down.
> Scott Fraser

Can you elaborate on that? I'm not sure I follow. How do you keep the
control room monitors from feeding back while the producer mindlessly
holds down the talkback?

--
Eric

Practice Your Mixing Skills
Multi-Track Masters on CD-ROM
www.Raw-Tracks.com

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On 21 Jul 2004 18:11:43 -0400, Mike Rivers <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote:
>
> In article <2m7no8Fk07jaU1@uni-berlin.de> kurt@nv.net writes:
>
>> I used to have a stick of some blackish-brown compound for my violin pegs that
>> worked fairly well.
>
> I've seen violin players use rosin. But that's to make them stick. I
> need to make them unstick so I can turn them.
>
> Tapping them on the small end of the taper usually frees them up, but
> that gets the whole banjo out of tune. But then, who cares?
>

Beeswax. Buy it from a woodworking supplier, as it's generally cheaper
than some of the other varieties.

Should be sticky enough to hold, but pliable.

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Well, it's also a point of my being a far less than stellar recording
facility, especially with the remodel, so what's the point? I want these
guys coming in and playing music like they normally do, not playing to an
audience of the recording system. Puts people at ease far more quickly.
Also one of the reasons I don't have one of those red recording lights in
the studio. I had way too many problems with red light syndrome.

Ah, who cares. I think I'm just going to buy the local hardware store and
be done with this stuff. Then again it's got 2300 sq ft of empty space with
18 foot ceilings in the basement with an elevator! <g> I'm always thinking.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

"ScotFraser" <scotfraser@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040722022827.23951.00002414@mb-m28.aol.com...
> << What ? They like it that you don't have a window, so can't see you
unless
> you take the trouble to walk out ... >>
>
> I find some singers prefer being in a part of the tracking room where they
> can't be seen from the control room. Gives them a private space to perform
in,
> I believe.
>
>
> Scott Fraser

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<< They need Rivers. >>

More, apparently, than he needs them.


Scott Fraser

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"ScotFraser" <scotfraser@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> I find some singers prefer being in a part of the tracking room where
they
> can't be seen from the control room. Gives them a private space to
perform in,
> I believe.



Then there are some who get nervous if they can't see you. I usually
turn down the lights in the control room so I don't distract the
players. Some have asked that I turn them back up. I guess they're
afraid I might be making rude gestures and faces at them.

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<< That's one of my complaints about both the Knob and the thing Hank
noted -- no provision for an external talkback mic (or even a remote
switch, for that matter). >>

The Mackie Big Knob has a 1/4" jack for remote switching of the talkback.

Scott Fraser

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"ScotFraser" <scotfraser@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040724120722.29549.00002086@mb-m16.aol.com...
>
> The Mackie Big Knob has a 1/4" jack for remote switching of the
talkback.


Oh.

Okay, but I still can't use my own mic.

Thanks for the correction!

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)

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scotfraser@aol.com (ScotFraser) wrote in message news:<20040721034938.04176.00001321@mb-m26.aol.com>...
> << Anyone have any first hand knowledge of the "Big Knob"? >>
>
> Yes, I just bought one for a project that involves setting up a DAW in the
> artists' rehearsal space.
>
> <<I am wondering
> about the talkback functions. A person that I don't trust too much said
> something to the effect that when you press the talkback button, the
> control room monitors DON'T DIM. I'm looking to know whether or not the
> talkback dims the control room. >>
>
> The talkback does not dim the control monitors.
>
> <<In my mind, the product would be useless
> if they didn't implement the talkback function properly.>>
>
> I personally am extremely pleased that talkback does not dim the monitors
> because it is now possible to carry on a 2 way conversation with the talent
> while the producer is mindlessly holding the talkback down.
> Scott Fraser

I bought a Big Knob a few weeks ago. It sounds great but does have
some limitations. I called Mackie and spoke with a very curteous and
attentive tech. Here's the deal.

Engaging talkback does not mute the control room speakers as has been
noted.

Talkback also does not mute the program/playback buss. In other words
if you wish to give a "heads up" to the talent while something is
playing back, the talkback signal is simply summed with the program
material. There is no ducking or muting. In a broadcast situation this
is simply unacceptable.

The headphone amp output and studio monitor amp output is "ganged"
(for want of a better term). Thus, one knob controls level to the
headphone amp and studio monitor amp. Obviously it would be nice to
have these otuputs independently controlled.

Muting logic is not available on a rear connector. For example, when I
engage my master mic switch (which also lights the on-air/recording
tallies), it would be nice to have the Big Knob mute the studio
monitors--it doesn't.

Kurt, the tech, said that Mackie is aware of these limitations, and to
include them would raise the price of the unit. I would rather spend
the extra money to have increased functionality. I don't mind omitted
bells and whistles, but "please at least give me the basics."

Stu B.