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CD-R (music) failure in live recording

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Anonymous
July 26, 2004 10:56:07 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

This email sent to Maxell's tech support should say it all:
===========================================================

Hello--I've used your blank CD-R (for music) media for several years
without incident, but this past week had failures with a number of
"CD-R Gold Music 80" discs while making an all-day live recording on a
Philips CD audio recorder, model CDR-560. There were OPC failures
with the first two discs I tried to use. I had no time to stop and
get other media during the live situation, so I had to continue with
what I had on hand. Several hours of recording were lost because
three of the nine recorded CDs could not be finalized; when I
re-inserted the discs into the recorder to finalize them, the recorder
either indicated OPC failure or else completed OPC but then reported
the discs as being blank.

I contacted Philips via their Web site and was given a list of the
brands of blank CD-R which they recommend. Maxell was not on that
list. When I expressed my surprise I was told, "No we do not recommend
Maxell, it is know[n] to be a problem." Just thought you should be
aware of that; after this experience I would certainly have to agree
with them.

Do you know of any software for a Windows PC that can read the raw
sectors off of a disc that hasn't been (and can't be) finalized? That
way, maybe I can get back at least some of what I recorded. My
musicians are very unhappy with me for losing three hours of their
work that day.

Best regards,

David Satz
Brooklyn, New York
Anonymous
July 26, 2004 4:08:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Is Maxell still part of Tandy? Perhaps one shouldn't put good hard work
into the hands of Tandy.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

"David Satz" <DSatz@msn.com> wrote in message
news:e6a68193.0407260556.3af5f51@posting.google.com...
> This email sent to Maxell's tech support should say it all:
> ===========================================================
>
> Hello--I've used your blank CD-R (for music) media for several years
> without incident, but this past week had failures with a number of
> "CD-R Gold Music 80" discs while making an all-day live recording on a
> Philips CD audio recorder, model CDR-560. There were OPC failures
> with the first two discs I tried to use. I had no time to stop and
> get other media during the live situation, so I had to continue with
> what I had on hand. Several hours of recording were lost because
> three of the nine recorded CDs could not be finalized; when I
> re-inserted the discs into the recorder to finalize them, the recorder
> either indicated OPC failure or else completed OPC but then reported
> the discs as being blank.
>
> I contacted Philips via their Web site and was given a list of the
> brands of blank CD-R which they recommend. Maxell was not on that
> list. When I expressed my surprise I was told, "No we do not recommend
> Maxell, it is know[n] to be a problem." Just thought you should be
> aware of that; after this experience I would certainly have to agree
> with them.
>
> Do you know of any software for a Windows PC that can read the raw
> sectors off of a disc that hasn't been (and can't be) finalized? That
> way, maybe I can get back at least some of what I recorded. My
> musicians are very unhappy with me for losing three hours of their
> work that day.
>
> Best regards,
>
> David Satz
> Brooklyn, New York
Anonymous
July 26, 2004 4:08:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Roger W. Norman <rnorman@starpower.net> wrote:
>Is Maxell still part of Tandy? Perhaps one shouldn't put good hard work
>into the hands of Tandy.

No, that was Memorex. And in 1995, Tandy sold all of their holdings to
Hanny Magnetics at a phenomenally inflated price, just as cheap CD-ROMS
were causing the market for floppy disks to collapse. I dunno who got
paid off to make the deal but it was sure good for Tandy.

Hanny is still making Supertape and Concertape on contract to Tandy.

Maxell is still around and more or less independant, although they discontinued
all their 1/4" tapes in 2003.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Related resources
Anonymous
July 26, 2004 4:43:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"David Satz" <DSatz@msn.com> wrote in message
news:e6a68193.0407260556.3af5f51@posting.google.com


> Do you know of any software for a Windows PC that can read the raw
> sectors off of a disc that hasn't been (and can't be) finalized? That
> way, maybe I can get back at least some of what I recorded. My
> musicians are very unhappy with me for losing three hours of their
> work that day.

Try some popular CD burning packages, EZCD and Nero for starters. I think
I've done this in the past. EZ has a command for checking the status of the
recordable disc. I seem to recall that if the disc is not finalized, you'll
be offered an opportunity to finalize it.

I think you can also stimulate the software to check the disc over by trying
to add a trivial track. This will stimulate an attempt to find an available
session and also will perhaps give you an opportunity to close out the disc.

I found myself in this cup of soup *courtesy* of a bad batch of Liteon 32x
burners. They worked pretty well with any brand of media I tried except TDK.
The rest is wailing and gnashing of teeth. BTW no, firmware updates didn't
help, and by in large, Liteon burners are very good.
Anonymous
July 26, 2004 4:59:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Ooops. Damn, I used to have a better memory than that. Is it possible that
beer actually kills brain cells?

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
news:ce3aa2$ej8$1@panix2.panix.com...
> Roger W. Norman <rnorman@starpower.net> wrote:
> >Is Maxell still part of Tandy? Perhaps one shouldn't put good hard work
> >into the hands of Tandy.
>
> No, that was Memorex. And in 1995, Tandy sold all of their holdings to
> Hanny Magnetics at a phenomenally inflated price, just as cheap CD-ROMS
> were causing the market for floppy disks to collapse. I dunno who got
> paid off to make the deal but it was sure good for Tandy.
>
> Hanny is still making Supertape and Concertape on contract to Tandy.
>
> Maxell is still around and more or less independant, although they
discontinued
> all their 1/4" tapes in 2003.
> --scott
>
>
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
July 26, 2004 4:59:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Roger W. Norman <rnorman@starpower.net> wrote:
>Ooops. Damn, I used to have a better memory than that. Is it possible that
>beer actually kills brain cells?

I dunno, it made Bud wiser.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
July 26, 2004 5:10:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <e6a68193.0407260556.3af5f51@posting.google.com> DSatz@msn.com writes:

> Do you know of any software for a Windows PC that can read the raw
> sectors off of a disc that hasn't been (and can't be) finalized?

When I had that same problem (though not for the same reason - the
plug got pulled in the middle of the finalizing run) I asked around
here and was pointed to IsoBuster. It did the trick. I've also used it
to pull files off of CDs that I've forgotten to finalize. The free
version will do what you want.

http://www.isobuster.com



--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
July 26, 2004 5:21:55 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Better memory and remaining brain cells are two different things! <g>

BTW, thanks for the tapes. I was surprised. Did anything work on your end,
or were you just being nice?

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
news:ce3d55$qn1$1@panix2.panix.com...
> Roger W. Norman <rnorman@starpower.net> wrote:
> >Ooops. Damn, I used to have a better memory than that. Is it possible
that
> >beer actually kills brain cells?
>
> I dunno, it made Bud wiser.
> --scott
>
>
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
July 26, 2004 6:36:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

DSatz@msn.com (David Satz) wrote in message news:<e6a68193.0407260556.3af5f51@posting.google.com>...
> This email sent to Maxell's tech support should say it all:
> ===========================================================
>
> Hello--I've used your blank CD-R (for music) media for several years
> without incident, but this past week had failures with a number of
> "CD-R Gold Music 80" discs while making an all-day live recording on a
> Philips CD audio recorder, model CDR-560. There were OPC failures
> with the first two discs I tried to use. I had no time to stop and
> get other media during the live situation, so I had to continue with
> what I had on hand. Several hours of recording were lost because
> three of the nine recorded CDs could not be finalized; when I
> re-inserted the discs into the recorder to finalize them, the recorder
> either indicated OPC failure or else completed OPC but then reported
> the discs as being blank.
>
> I contacted Philips via their Web site and was given a list of the
> brands of blank CD-R which they recommend. Maxell was not on that
> list. When I expressed my surprise I was told, "No we do not recommend
> Maxell, it is know[n] to be a problem." Just thought you should be
> aware of that; after this experience I would certainly have to agree
> with them.
>
> Do you know of any software for a Windows PC that can read the raw
> sectors off of a disc that hasn't been (and can't be) finalized? That
> way, maybe I can get back at least some of what I recorded. My
> musicians are very unhappy with me for losing three hours of their
> work that day.
>
> Best regards,
>
> David Satz
> Brooklyn, New York


I thought that in the CD-r recorder your self you might be able to
copy it from the reader to the recording drive if it is a dual drive
one. I know that is possible with unfinalized discs in my Marantz
model.

Mike http://www.mmeproductions.com
July 26, 2004 6:41:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Not that it'll help your recovery, but be advised that Tascam
actually recommends that you NOT use Maxell CDRs in their CDRW5000.

Taiyo Yuden always seem reliable to me FWIW.

DSatz@msn.com (David Satz) writes:

>This email sent to Maxell's tech support should say it all:
>===========================================================

>I contacted Philips via their Web site and was given a list of the
>brands of blank CD-R which they recommend. Maxell was not on that
>list. When I expressed my surprise I was told, "No we do not recommend
>Maxell, it is know[n] to be a problem." Just thought you should be
>aware of that; after this experience I would certainly have to agree
>with them.
Anonymous
July 26, 2004 7:22:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Have you tried Exact Audio Copy? It may be able to help you... Also, how
about trying to finalize on a different CD recorder? I've done that with
the Tascam and HHB burners. Don't bother with Yamaha- it has its own major
set of finalization issues...

This is the reason why I always bring multiple recorders into the field. I
always use a backup on a different format for my live work...

--Ben

--
Benjamin Maas
Fifth Circle Audio
Los Angeles, CA
http://www.fifthcircle.com

Please remove "Nospam" from address for replies

"David Satz" <DSatz@msn.com> wrote in message
news:e6a68193.0407260556.3af5f51@posting.google.com...
> This email sent to Maxell's tech support should say it all:
> ===========================================================
>
> Hello--I've used your blank CD-R (for music) media for several years
> without incident, but this past week had failures with a number of
> "CD-R Gold Music 80" discs while making an all-day live recording on a
> Philips CD audio recorder, model CDR-560. There were OPC failures
> with the first two discs I tried to use. I had no time to stop and
> get other media during the live situation, so I had to continue with
> what I had on hand. Several hours of recording were lost because
> three of the nine recorded CDs could not be finalized; when I
> re-inserted the discs into the recorder to finalize them, the recorder
> either indicated OPC failure or else completed OPC but then reported
> the discs as being blank.
>
> I contacted Philips via their Web site and was given a list of the
> brands of blank CD-R which they recommend. Maxell was not on that
> list. When I expressed my surprise I was told, "No we do not recommend
> Maxell, it is know[n] to be a problem." Just thought you should be
> aware of that; after this experience I would certainly have to agree
> with them.
>
> Do you know of any software for a Windows PC that can read the raw
> sectors off of a disc that hasn't been (and can't be) finalized? That
> way, maybe I can get back at least some of what I recorded. My
> musicians are very unhappy with me for losing three hours of their
> work that day.
>
> Best regards,
>
> David Satz
> Brooklyn, New York
Anonymous
July 26, 2004 7:22:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 15:22:38 GMT, "Benjamin Maas"
<benmaas@nospamfifthcircle.com> wrote:

>Have you tried Exact Audio Copy?

I've got it, it's great for old scratched 1980's CD's, but it
didn't read a CDR I was recording when the stand-along recorder lost
power. Apparently it needs a readable TOC to read a disc.
Fortunately there's another program out there named ISOBuster that
made a big .wav file out of everything on the disc, and that's what I
would use in this case.

>It may be able to help you... Also, how
>about trying to finalize on a different CD recorder?

There's something I find scary about trying to write on a disc you
already can't read from with standard software, and the disc is the
only copy of something valuable ... read it with ISO buster first, it
doesn't need the disc to be finalized.

>I've done that with
>the Tascam and HHB burners. Don't bother with Yamaha- it has its own major
>set of finalization issues...
>
>This is the reason why I always bring multiple recorders into the field. I
>always use a backup on a different format for my live work...
>
>--Ben

-----
http://mindspring.com/~benbradley
Anonymous
July 26, 2004 10:22:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Benjamin Maas" <benmaas@nospamfifthcircle.com> wrote:

>Have you tried Exact Audio Copy? It may be able to help you...

While EAC does an excellent job on scratched CDs it may not be able
to read a CD which is not finalized.

As a first step in recovery a PC with a suitable burner is needed.
Suitable should say that the pre-TOC can be read. The pre-TOC will
be written each time the stop key is pressed on the CD recorder while
it is in recording or recording/pause mode. Usually the CD recorders
displays "Wait" for a couple of seconds as it flushes the buffers and
writes the pre-TOC.

Next some software is needed that can handle the pre-TOC in lieu of the
(final) TOC. In this case the CD can be read normally. However, if it
were that simple, the originally used CD recorder would play the CD.

If that fails some software is needed that can extract the CD on a sector
basis and a CD drive or burner is needed that supports access to blocks
that are not contained in the TOC or pre-TOC. The last time I had to
recover such a CD I und CDRwin, a TEAC SCSI-burner and Win 98 as operating
system.

Good luck
Norbert
Anonymous
July 27, 2004 12:27:07 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

David Satz wrote:

> Do you know of any software for a Windows PC that can read
> the raw sectors off of a disc that hasn't been (and can't be)
> finalized?

Such software does exist, I found it on a web search a couple of years
ago. But I have not been able to refind it .... I think it was/is
shareware.

> David Satz


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************
Anonymous
July 27, 2004 12:49:28 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Benjamin Maas wrote:

> [H]ow about trying to finalize on a different CD recorder?

I tried on a second Philips CDR-560 as well as a Plextor CD recorder and
a Pioneer DVD recorder; all of them saw the discs as completely blank.
Anonymous
July 27, 2004 1:58:48 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Mike Rivers wrote:

> [ ... ] IsoBuster [ ... ] did the trick. I've also used it to pull
> files off of CDs that I've forgotten to finalize. The free version
> will do what you want.
>
> http://www.isobuster.com

Thanks for the pointer (also to Ben Bradley). I downloaded IsoBuster and
installed it, but unfortunately its sector extraction capabilities are
disabled when it is told by a drive that a disc is blank. And all three
of my problem discs show up as blank in both of my CD recorders--perhaps
due to the previous OPC failures.

I've sent email to the support alias for IsoBuster and will let y'all
know whether they can come up with anything. It looks as if they ought
to be able to handle this problem, if it can be handled at all.

Meanwhile it's well past the end of the business day and I haven't heard
anything back from Maxell.

--best regards
Anonymous
July 27, 2004 9:17:58 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 26 Jul 2004 21:58:48 -0700, DSatz@msn.com (David Satz) wrote:

>I've sent email to the support alias for IsoBuster and will let y'all
>know whether they can come up with anything. It looks as if they ought
>to be able to handle this problem, if it can be handled at all.

An even laster ditch effort might be Winhex, if a reader drive can
see anything at all. It tries to make a raw data dump, leaving you
the enviable task of using the bytes.

However, if a burner program like EZCD Creator can't read it.....

Good fortune,

Chris Hornbeck
"Vote or Die" - P. Diddy
Anonymous
July 27, 2004 10:30:18 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I wrote:

> I downloaded IsoBuster and installed it, but unfortunately its sector
> extraction capabilities are disabled when it is told by a drive that
> a disc is blank. And all three of my problem discs show up as blank
> in both of my CD recorders--perhaps due to the previous OPC failures.
>
> I've sent email to the support alias for IsoBuster and will let y'all
> know whether they can come up with anything. It looks as if they ought
> to be able to handle this problem, if it can be handled at all.

An overnight reply from the author of IsoBuster says that his program
sends a number of different commands to the drive to survey a disc's
contents, and if all routes of information agree that the disc is blank
then the program disables extraction because:

"Drives do not allow reads in unrecorded media. That's simply a part of
the specification. In other words, would you be able to read anyway then
all commands would fail immediately, the drive would not even attempt to
go read there as it thinks there's nothing out there to read anyway."

He said further (this doesn't help in my case, but may interest others):
"I can, here in the lab, with some tricks, using special hardware, and by
changing subtile things on the media itself (RW media only), work around
such issues IF the actual data is still readable, but only for actual
data track(s) ! If the data was recorded as an Audio track then this
trickery doesn't even help."

Meanwhile I am finding that some tracks are unreadable even on the discs
which were successfully finalized. For those I can use IsoBuster as well
as a number of other programs which I have here. Here goes a lot of work ...

Thanks to all for the helpful replies, and even for the off-topic ones
(since this is, after all, UseNet).

--best regards
Anonymous
July 27, 2004 1:55:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <e6a68193.0407262058.7469a866@posting.google.com> DSatz@msn.com writes:

> Meanwhile it's well past the end of the business day and I haven't heard
> anything back from Maxell.

I would be surprised if you ever do.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
July 27, 2004 6:48:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

David Satz wrote:
>
> I wrote:
>
> > I downloaded IsoBuster and installed it, but unfortunately its sector
> > extraction capabilities are disabled when it is told by a drive that
> > a disc is blank. And all three of my problem discs show up as blank
> > in both of my CD recorders--perhaps due to the previous OPC failures.
> >

I just noticed that the Denon DNC 630 CD player claims to read
unfinalized audio CD's. I thought that some audio CD writers also had
this ability - don't they write a temporary TOC somewhere on the disc?

Cheers.

James.
Anonymous
July 27, 2004 9:46:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

David Satz wrote:
> Mike Rivers wrote:
>
>> [ ... ] IsoBuster [ ... ] did the trick. I've also used it to pull
>> files off of CDs that I've forgotten to finalize. The free version
>> will do what you want.
>>
>> http://www.isobuster.com
>
> Thanks for the pointer (also to Ben Bradley). I downloaded IsoBuster
> and installed it, but unfortunately its sector extraction
> capabilities are disabled when it is told by a drive that a disc is
> blank.

Maybe they are, and nothing has been recorded. If so, you will be able to
cut your losses by re-using them for something else - great consolation I'm
sure ....


geoff
Anonymous
July 27, 2004 9:46:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <i%lNc.581$zS6.82140@news02.tsnz.net> geoff@paf.co.nz-nospam writes:

> Maybe they are, and nothing has been recorded. If so, you will be able to
> cut your losses by re-using them for something else - great consolation I'm
> sure ....

I wouldn't use them for anything more challenging than keeping a cup
off the surface of my desk.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
July 28, 2004 1:26:56 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

James Perrett wrote:

> I just noticed that the Denon DNC 630 CD player claims to read
> unfinalized audio CD's. I thought that some audio CD writers also had
> this ability - don't they write a temporary TOC somewhere on the disc?

Definitely. I'm getting the impression--though I would like to confirm
it--that the so-called "pre-TOC" (as written or updated after recording,
when the stop button is pressed) may be in a standard format that all
kinds of different recorders and programs can read. I had wondered but
never known whether this data was interchangeable among brands, etc.

In my case, however, there's nothing to finalize. The discs appear to
be completely blank. No recorder will close a session that doesn't seem
to exist, or finalize a table of contents that appears empty.

--I've written back to IsoBuster's author to ask whether, if I manage to
record minimal new tracks--overwriting the first few seconds of the real
material, but perhaps creating a readable "pre-TOC" or some other sign
that the discs are not utterly blank--this might enable his software to
grab user data from the sectors. At this point it seems like the only
chance remaining. And I've paid the shareware registration fee, in
appreciation for his attention to my little problem.
Anonymous
July 28, 2004 5:01:52 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 27 Jul 2004 21:26:56 -0700, DSatz@msn.com (David Satz) wrote:

>--I've written back to IsoBuster's author to ask whether, if I manage to
>record minimal new tracks--overwriting the first few seconds of the real
>material, but perhaps creating a readable "pre-TOC" or some other sign
>that the discs are not utterly blank--this might enable his software to
>grab user data from the sectors. At this point it seems like the only
>chance remaining. And I've paid the shareware registration fee, in
>appreciation for his attention to my little problem.

This guy surely knows more than I ever will, and this may just be a
suggestion out of desperation, but have you tried reading any of these
(with isobuster) on different CD-ROM and CD-RW drives, and on
different computers? I presume they will all say it's blank, but at
this point it's worth a try. EAC works differently/better on some
drives than others (in one drive, EAC wants to take overnight to rip a
disc, in another drive it rips at 4x).

-----
http://mindspring.com/~benbradley
Anonymous
July 28, 2004 9:57:21 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 27 Jul 2004 21:26:56 -0700, DSatz@msn.com (David Satz) wrote:

>James Perrett wrote:
>
>> I just noticed that the Denon DNC 630 CD player claims to read
>> unfinalized audio CD's. I thought that some audio CD writers also had
>> this ability - don't they write a temporary TOC somewhere on the disc?
>
>Definitely. I'm getting the impression--though I would like to confirm
>it--that the so-called "pre-TOC" (as written or updated after recording,
>when the stop button is pressed) may be in a standard format that all
>kinds of different recorders and programs can read. I had wondered but
>never known whether this data was interchangeable among brands, etc.

The fourth paragraph of:
http://www.cdrfaq.org/faq02.html#S2-19
seems to imply this, because all CD recorders (meaning their firmware)
have to be able to read the PMA/ "pre-TOC". The strong implication is
that the PMA format is plain vanilla codified in the Appropriate
Color Book. But I don't know.


>In my case, however, there's nothing to finalize. The discs appear to
>be completely blank. No recorder will close a session that doesn't seem
>to exist, or finalize a table of contents that appears empty.

Does the dye "look" recorded? Is so, maybe there's data there, and
hope can spring eternal.

Good fortune,

Chris Hornbeck
"Vote or Die" - P. Diddy
Anonymous
July 28, 2004 6:26:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

David Satz wrote:

>
> In my case, however, there's nothing to finalize. The discs appear to
> be completely blank. No recorder will close a session that doesn't seem
> to exist, or finalize a table of contents that appears empty.
>

Can you see any visibly written area on the disc?

Cheers.

James.
Anonymous
August 2, 2004 2:16:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

!! I was able to recover all the audio from the three discs, minus just
four seconds at the start of each one. Since the discs were being seen
as "blank" I took a gamble and tried recording a minimum-length track at
the start of each affected disc. This maneuver trashed all the sectors
in those 4-second tracks, but it succeeded in establishing a new pre-TOC
on each of the discs.

As a result, IsoBuster could perform raw sector reads in the rest of the
area that I had recorded originally, and to extract the user data, even
though that data went way beyond the extents indicated in the pre-TOC.
Sound Forge then rewrote this raw data as WAV files from which I can
easily remake the discs (on non-Maxell blanks, of course).

Again my thanks to everyone who responded to this thread, especially the
people who recommended that I check out IsoBuster.

--best regards
Anonymous
August 2, 2004 3:04:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <e6a68193.0408012116.6863c60a@posting.google.com> DSatz@msn.com writes:

> Again my thanks to everyone who responded to this thread, especially the
> people who recommended that I check out IsoBuster.

Clever solution. It's nice when things work out.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
August 7, 2004 5:47:24 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <e6a68193.0408012116.6863c60a@posting.google.com>, David
Satz <DSatz@msn.com> wrote:

> !! I was able to recover all the audio from the three discs, minus just
> four seconds at the start of each one. Since the discs were being seen
> as "blank" I took a gamble and tried recording a minimum-length track at
> the start of each affected disc. This maneuver trashed all the sectors
> in those 4-second tracks, but it succeeded in establishing a new pre-TOC
> on each of the discs.
>
> As a result, IsoBuster could perform raw sector reads in the rest of the
> area that I had recorded originally, and to extract the user data, even
> though that data went way beyond the extents indicated in the pre-TOC.
> Sound Forge then rewrote this raw data as WAV files from which I can
> easily remake the discs (on non-Maxell blanks, of course).
>
> Again my thanks to everyone who responded to this thread, especially the
> people who recommended that I check out IsoBuster.
>
> --best regards


Damn nice recovery job David!

I just have to ask: Next time you gonna run a Dat or something else as
a backup??

I never record live stuff without recording the data to two separate
places. Only one time in almost 15 years did I need a couple seconds of
music from a backup, but it makes it easy to sleep at night.




David Correia
Celebration Sound
Warren, Rhode Island

CelebrationSound@aol.com
www.CelebrationSound.com
Anonymous
August 7, 2004 1:51:24 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

David Correia wrote:

> I just have to ask: Next time you gonna run a Dat or something else as
> a backup??

Ordinarily I record recitals straight to the hard drive of a laptop
computer, then go home, transfer the WAV files to my desktop computer,
edit, and burn CDs. But this was a full week of 12-hour days.

Using an audio CD recorder should have allowed me to cover the whole event,
missing only ~45 seconds for ejecting a disc and OPCing the next one when
changing between blanks (unfortunate but acceptable). Editing wasn't called
for; it was documentary style, just gathering raw material, so re-inserting
and finalizing the discs should have been the only required "aftercare".

This CD recorder has worked well before and since, and never had a problem
with any prior generations of Maxell blanks. But I had no time to get and
test other blanks after the failures of day 1, so I used the laptop for
the remainder of the event, then spent many extra hours (which should not
have been necessary) transferring the files and burning CDs.


> I never record live stuff without recording the data to two separate
> places. Only one time in almost 15 years did I need a couple seconds of
> music from a backup, but it makes it easy to sleep at night.

Back in my PCM-1600/PCM-1610 studio days we did that all the time (a pair
of BVU-200s or 800s in parallel). In my PCM-F1 days as an independent I
did that for high-ticket jobs--but on one that I recall, both my Beta II
and (industrial) Beta I VCRs failed on the same job. I never figured out
how that could have happened, but it definitely did.
!