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Large capsule mic with good S/N ratio and Frequency response

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Anonymous
July 28, 2004 6:00:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Need to find natural sounding uncoloured large capsule microphone
to be used in studio for gathering sound from small items.

Needs to have good s/n ratio and at least 20-20.000Hz frequency response,
not so accurate at low end bottom but high frequencies should be there.

Something from Rode?

..jukka
Anonymous
July 28, 2004 6:00:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Jukka Andersson" <moc.otsamhir@nossredna.akkuj> wrote in message
news:ukONc.249$fw3.63@read3.inet.fi
> Need to find natural sounding uncoloured large capsule microphone
> to be used in studio for gathering sound from small items.
>
> Needs to have good s/n ratio and at least 20-20.000Hz frequency
> response, not so accurate at low end bottom but high frequencies
> should be there.
>
> Something from Rode?

Uncolored large diaphragm is almost an oxymoron because the larger the
diaphragm, the more likely the on-axis and off-axis response will be
different, and the more different they will be. Generally mics are used in
complex sound fields, where there is considerable on-axis and off-axis
sound. The larger the diaphragm, the more difference between the character
of sound from on and off axis. If one is uncolored, the other will be
colored.

Look at some of the mics that have been characterised by others as having
low coloration such as the DPA4006 and the Behringer ECM 8000 (and I'll add
many of the Earthworks mics). They all have 1/2" or smaller diaphragms.
One price you pay for smaller diaphragms is less dynamic range, but usually
only with extremely small diaphragm mics (e.g., 1/4")
Anonymous
July 28, 2004 6:00:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> Need to find natural sounding uncoloured large capsule microphone
> to be used in studio for gathering sound from small items.
>
> Needs to have good s/n ratio and at least 20-20.000Hz frequency response,
> not so accurate at low end bottom but high frequencies should be there.
>
> Something from Rode?

Large capsule means more noise as far as condensers are concerned.

Now, condensers: will be coloured (as all microphones are :) )

Small items: what kind?

Rhode: low self-noise, but not "uncoloured"

You want to listen at some of the former B&K, now called DPA I
believe. Ribbon microphones might be good too if the SPL produced by
those "small items" is high enough (M160 comes to mind).

Most uncoloured with the flatest freq response will be specs measuring
microphones.
Related resources
Anonymous
July 28, 2004 6:00:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Can't go wrong with an AKG C414-ULS or a TLM103 in that price range.
Both of those are pretty quiet, and I think you would find either one
of them to be useful in a number of situations.
Anonymous
July 28, 2004 6:01:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Jukka Andersson" <moc.otsamhir@nossredna.akkuj> wrote in message
> Need to find natural sounding uncoloured large capsule microphone
> to be used in studio for gathering sound from small items.

I assure you that everyone else has been too, for the past eighty years
or so. When it is designed, I am sure someone will let you know.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
July 28, 2004 6:01:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Woodworm wrote:
>
> Large capsule means more noise as far as condensers are concerned.

Other way around, all other things being equal: Larger capsule area = larger output swing = lower gain needed from internal electronics = lower selfnoise.
Anonymous
July 28, 2004 7:24:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Woodworm <maxmax@macmail.com> wrote:
>
>Large capsule means more noise as far as condensers are concerned.

No, not really. But it does mean poorer off-axis respone on the whole.

The larger surface area of the diaphragm does mean larger capacitance
change and therefore greater signal going into the electronics.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
July 28, 2004 7:43:48 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 14:00:58 GMT, "Jukka Andersson"
<moc.otsamhir@nossredna.akkuj> wrote:

>Need to find natural sounding uncoloured large capsule microphone
>to be used in studio for gathering sound from small items.
>
>Needs to have good s/n ratio and at least 20-20.000Hz frequency response,
>not so accurate at low end bottom but high frequencies should be there.
>
>Something from Rode?
>
>.jukka
>

If you're looking for natural sounding uncoloured, you should probably
look at a small-diaphragm condenser mic. Do you have a preference on
pattern? Omnidirectional mics do not have the proximity effect of
cardioids, if your main goal is flat frequency response.

The AT3032 is rated at 30Hz - 20 KHz with 78 dB S/N
http://www.audio-technica.com/prodpro/profiles/AT3032.h...

If you want cardioid, look at the Rode NT5. They are a decent 13mm
condenser. They come in pairs, in case you want stereo.
http://www.rode.com.au/

If your budget is somewhat higher, look at the DPA 4006. When they say
+/- 2dB, 20Hz to 20KHz, they mean it.
http://www.dpamicrophones.com/

If your budget is low and the noise isn't that important, look at the
Behringer ECM8000. Low cost, reasonably flat frequency response. It's
best on loud things, like cymbals and high-hat.
http://www.behringer.com/ECM8000/index.cfm?lang=ENG

But I'm curious; what kind of "small items" are you gathering sound
from?

Mike T.
Anonymous
July 28, 2004 7:43:49 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I own several Pearl (Milab) mics with (relatively) large rectangular capsules. I
don't know if they're still made, though you might find them used. I've made a
lot of excellent recordings with them.

An average sample goes beyond 20kHz, flat.
Anonymous
July 28, 2004 8:10:08 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I agree with Mike Tulley: if you want an uncolored response, go for
something with a smaller diaphragm. To his suggestions I would add the
Sennheiser MKH40 and various Schoepses.

If, for some reason, it really needs to be large-diaphragm, you might try a
Neumann TLM-193. It's flatter than most large-diaphragm microphones, and as
I recall it's pretty quiet too. Also sounds very nice.

Peace,
Paul
Anonymous
July 28, 2004 9:17:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Woodworm wrote:

> Large capsule means more noise as far as condensers are concerned.

Nope. The larger the diaphragm the larger the signal that
is correlated (the part that comes at it in waves) relative
to the signal that is uncorrelated (the part that comes from
tiny, independant, local events, i.e. noise.)



Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein
Anonymous
July 28, 2004 9:18:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Jukka Andersson" <moc.otsamhir@nossredna.akkuj> wrote in message
news:ukONc.249$fw3.63@read3.inet.fi...
> Need to find natural sounding uncoloured large capsule microphone
> to be used in studio for gathering sound from small items.
>
> Needs to have good s/n ratio and at least 20-20.000Hz frequency
response,
> not so accurate at low end bottom but high frequencies should be
there.

Your requirements do not at all go along with "large diaphragm." It
is at high frequencies in particular that large diaphragms fail the
natural, uncoloured test.

Norm Strong
Anonymous
July 29, 2004 1:35:44 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Jukka Andersson wrote:

> Need to find natural sounding uncoloured large capsule microphone
> to be used in studio for gathering sound from small items.

I'm surprised nobody's mentioned the Microtech Gefell M930 here.



> Needs to have good s/n ratio and at least 20-20.000Hz frequency response,
> not so accurate at low end bottom but high frequencies should be there.

Well, there's the rub--none of the LD mics are going to have picture-perfect polar patterns in the upper HF region.
Anonymous
July 29, 2004 2:02:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<< If, for some reason, it really needs to be large-diaphragm, you might try a
Neumann TLM-193. It's flatter than most large-diaphragm microphones, and as
I recall it's pretty quiet too. Also sounds very nice. >>

I was just going to say that. The TLM193 is one of the more overlooked items in
the Neumann catalog, reviled by many for not having that larger than life
U47-ish Neumann sound, but loved by a few for being very neutral & versatile
when transparency is needed.

Scott Fraser
July 29, 2004 2:02:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I've had great success with the TLM193 on female vocals...

YMMV.

JK


"ScotFraser" <scotfraser@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040729060211.07359.00000683@mb-m15.aol.com...
> << If, for some reason, it really needs to be large-diaphragm, you might
try a
> Neumann TLM-193. It's flatter than most large-diaphragm microphones, and
as
> I recall it's pretty quiet too. Also sounds very nice. >>
>
> I was just going to say that. The TLM193 is one of the more overlooked
items in
> the Neumann catalog, reviled by many for not having that larger than life
> U47-ish Neumann sound, but loved by a few for being very neutral &
versatile
> when transparency is needed.
>
> Scott Fraser
Anonymous
July 29, 2004 2:12:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Bob Cain" <arcane@arcanemethods.com> wrote in message
news:ce9f9b0cgb@enews1.newsguy.com
> Woodworm wrote:
>
>> Large capsule means more noise as far as condensers are concerned.
>
> Nope. The larger the diaphragm the larger the signal that
> is correlated (the part that comes at it in waves) relative
> to the signal that is uncorrelated (the part that comes from
> tiny, independant, local events, i.e. noise.)
>

Just to split hairs, but then he's right.

Large capsule means more noise.

Large capsule also means proportionaly more signal than noise, all other
things being equal.

Since the goal is the same amount of signal, we think there's less noise.

;-)
Anonymous
July 29, 2004 5:38:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> > Woodworm wrote:
> >> Large capsule means more noise as far as condensers are concerned.


I'm so red faced now that I'm just looking for a tiny hole to make my
wormy body disappear into. Thanks for correcting me, and thanks Arny
for trying to save my face :) 

Now, let me explain why I wrote such a blatant inaccuracy and where it
came from.

When I read "small things", I assumed the situation (shame on me) and
I could picture myself gathering wild tracks at night 15 years ago in
the loneliness of a quiet appartment or a deserted studio, sound
emanating from anything you can imagine tiny and low SPL for
commercials or movies soundtracks purposes.

And it was my experience THEN, with the equipment and technology I had
available then, that I would generally resort to a smaller diaphragm
condenser (or even a dynamic mic, g*d forbid I should say that) for
these tiny little (usually high-pitched) sounds.

Without checking specs or any tech bakground at the time, it just
appeared to my ears that the overall noise produced by the microphone
was less intrusive. That's all. It can be put down to alot of factors
I guess, in retrospect such as the noise shape, the interaction
between the mics and my mic-preamps (almost unvariably a modified
Nagra or a Tubetech), the effect the environment had on the capsule
(eg. heat or humidity), the directivity of the mic, etc..

So, I apologise, I beg your pardon, if I have misled anyone. And thank
you again for putting my mistakes right.

Now, I'm usually not the kind to jump head over heals. This must be
the most serious post I've written in a long time - since my divorce I
guess.
Anonymous
July 29, 2004 7:16:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<< I've had great success with the TLM193 on female vocals...
>>

Yes, especially if it's someone who is rather sibillant. It's a very natural
vocal sound, though, not the huge, enhanced, in-your-face sound you get with a
47.

Scott Fraser
Anonymous
July 29, 2004 7:29:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Woodworm wrote:
>
> When I read "small things", I assumed the situation (shame on me) and
> I could picture myself gathering wild tracks at night 15 years ago in
> the loneliness of a quiet appartment or a deserted studio, sound
> emanating from anything you can imagine tiny and low SPL for
> commercials or movies soundtracks purposes.
>
> And it was my experience THEN, with the equipment and technology I had
> available then, that I would generally resort to a smaller diaphragm
> condenser (or even a dynamic mic, g*d forbid I should say that) for
> these tiny little (usually high-pitched) sounds.
>
> Without checking specs or any tech bakground at the time, it just
> appeared to my ears that the overall noise produced by the microphone
> was less intrusive. That's all. It can be put down to alot of factors
> I guess, in retrospect such as the noise shape, the interaction
> between the mics and my mic-preamps (almost unvariably a modified
> Nagra or a Tubetech), the effect the environment had on the capsule
> (eg. heat or humidity), the directivity of the mic, etc..


"the equipment and technology I had available then" Perhaps LD microphones with older electronics being compared with SD condensers like the AKG 480 or Schoeps?
Anonymous
July 29, 2004 8:00:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Arny Krueger wrote:

> "Bob Cain" <arcane@arcanemethods.com> wrote in message
> news:ce9f9b0cgb@enews1.newsguy.com
>
>>Woodworm wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Large capsule means more noise as far as condensers are concerned.
>>
>>Nope. The larger the diaphragm the larger the signal that
>>is correlated (the part that comes at it in waves) relative
>>to the signal that is uncorrelated (the part that comes from
>>tiny, independant, local events, i.e. noise.)
>>
>
>
> Just to split hairs, but then he's right.
>
> Large capsule means more noise.
>
> Large capsule also means proportionaly more signal than noise, all other
> things being equal.

Nope. More than proportional. The uncorrelated signal adds
in an RMS fashion while the signal adds linearly with
respect to area. So, as I said, the correlated signal is
larger relative to the uncorrelated signal as the diameter
increases. I.e., the SNR gets bigger.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein
Anonymous
July 29, 2004 8:04:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Woodworm wrote:

>
> So, I apologise, I beg your pardon, if I have misled anyone. And thank
> you again for putting my mistakes right.
>
> Now, I'm usually not the kind to jump head over heals. This must be
> the most serious post I've written in a long time - since my divorce I
> guess.

If I did obeisances every time I've made a misstatement on
usenet I'd have worn out my back, my knees and my nose. :-)


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein
Anonymous
July 29, 2004 10:33:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

>scotfraser@aol.com (ScotFraser)

>TLM193 is one of the more overlooked items in
>the Neumann catalog, reviled by many for not having that larger than life
>U47-ish Neumann sound, but loved by a few for being very neutral & versatile
>when transparency is needed.

The TLM 193 has the same capsule as the U89 right, and a similar frequency
response in a transformerless version?

Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Off the Morning Show! & sleepin' In... / Fox News
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits
Anonymous
July 30, 2004 3:09:13 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 10:00:58 -0400, Jukka Andersson wrote
(in article <ukONc.249$fw3.63@read3.inet.fi>):

> Need to find natural sounding uncoloured large capsule microphone
> to be used in studio for gathering sound from small items.
>
> Needs to have good s/n ratio and at least 20-20.000Hz frequency response,
> not so accurate at low end bottom but high frequencies should be there.
>
> Something from Rode?
>
> .jukka
>
>

Jukka,

Why an LD?

Regards,

Ty Ford



-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at http://home.comcast.net/~tyreeford
Anonymous
July 30, 2004 3:17:03 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 12:36:11 -0400, Arny Krueger wrote
(in article <Qc6dnR5ff4RxSJrcRVn-gQ@comcast.com>):

> "Jukka Andersson" <moc.otsamhir@nossredna.akkuj> wrote in message
> news:ukONc.249$fw3.63@read3.inet.fi
>> Need to find natural sounding uncoloured large capsule microphone
>> to be used in studio for gathering sound from small items.
>>
>> Needs to have good s/n ratio and at least 20-20.000Hz frequency
>> response, not so accurate at low end bottom but high frequencies
>> should be there.
>>
>> Something from Rode?
>
> Uncolored large diaphragm is almost an oxymoron because the larger the
> diaphragm, the more likely the on-axis and off-axis response will be
> different, and the more different they will be. Generally mics are used in
> complex sound fields, where there is considerable on-axis and off-axis
> sound. The larger the diaphragm, the more difference between the character
> of sound from on and off axis. If one is uncolored, the other will be
> colored.
>
> Look at some of the mics that have been characterised by others as having
> low coloration such as the DPA4006 and the Behringer ECM 8000 (and I'll add
> many of the Earthworks mics). They all have 1/2" or smaller diaphragms.
> One price you pay for smaller diaphragms is less dynamic range, but usually
> only with extremely small diaphragm mics (e.g., 1/4")

The selfnoise of the 8000 puts it out of contention. If you have small
things making small noises you want low selfnoise.

If you want natural sound AND low selfnoise, make sure you get the right mic
AND preamp. The new C414B has a 6dB-A selfnoise (like the TLM 103). The
Sennheiser MKH 50 (I think) aslo has a low selfnoise as does the Rode NT2000.
Again, with the wrong preamp on any of these, things get edgy and nasty.

The GML and STT-1 Millennia Media I use mate well with the TLM 103 and my old
414 B-ULS. The resultant sound is very natural.

Regards,

Ty Ford




-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at http://home.comcast.net/~tyreeford
Anonymous
July 30, 2004 3:18:48 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 14:33:05 -0400, Woodworm wrote
(in article <db211059.0407281033.3ec15df2@posting.google.com>):

>> Need to find natural sounding uncoloured large capsule microphone
>> to be used in studio for gathering sound from small items.
>>
>> Needs to have good s/n ratio and at least 20-20.000Hz frequency response,
>> not so accurate at low end bottom but high frequencies should be there.
>>
>> Something from Rode?
>
> Large capsule means more noise as far as condensers are concerned.
>
> Now, condensers: will be coloured (as all microphones are :) )
>
> Small items: what kind?
>
> Rhode: low self-noise, but not "uncoloured"
>
> You want to listen at some of the former B&K, now called DPA I
> believe. Ribbon microphones might be good too if the SPL produced by
> those "small items" is high enough (M160 comes to mind).

It'd be tough to get any ribbon to capture quiet sounds without objectionable
preamp noise floor.

Regards,

Ty Ford




-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at http://home.comcast.net/~tyreeford
Anonymous
July 30, 2004 3:22:49 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Thu, 29 Jul 2004 12:35:44 -0400, Kurt Albershardt wrote
(in article <2msnb0Fqmq75U2@uni-berlin.de>):

> Jukka Andersson wrote:
>
>> Need to find natural sounding uncoloured large capsule microphone
>> to be used in studio for gathering sound from small items.
>
> I'm surprised nobody's mentioned the Microtech Gefell M930 here.
>


Ahh! actually, now that you mention the gefell, the M296 smallish omni is
really quite amazing.

The M294 and M295 cardioids are also quite nice. I think I still have the
m296 clip in my audio archives.

Regards,

Ty Ford



-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at http://home.comcast.net/~tyreeford
Anonymous
July 30, 2004 3:55:53 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"JK" <mmatrix@concentric.net> wrote in message
news:ceaupu$j2v@dispatch.concentric.net...
> I've had great success with the TLM193 on female vocals...

I've never had the pleasure of trying one of these... anyone ever try 'em
on overheads? If so, how'd they work out? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?
--


Neil Henderson
Saqqara Records
http://www.saqqararecords.com
Anonymous
July 30, 2004 3:59:50 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Woodworm"

>
> Large capsule means more noise as far as condensers are concerned.
>


** The rest of this cellulose eating parasite's drivel may be safely
ignored.





........... Phil
Anonymous
July 30, 2004 4:42:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Ty Ford wrote:

>
> Why an LD?

He said:

>>Needs to have good s/n ratio

He said:

>>to be used in studio for gathering sound from small items.

(implies high sensitivity)

He said:

>>high frequencies should be there.

What combines these requirements better than an LDC?


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein
Anonymous
July 30, 2004 9:31:47 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Bob Cain" <arcane@arcanemethods.com> wrote in message
news:cebv5g0jg8@enews3.newsguy.com
> Arny Krueger wrote:
>
>> "Bob Cain" <arcane@arcanemethods.com> wrote in message
>> news:ce9f9b0cgb@enews1.newsguy.com
>>
>>> Woodworm wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Large capsule means more noise as far as condensers are concerned.

>>> Nope. The larger the diaphragm the larger the signal that
>>> is correlated (the part that comes at it in waves) relative
>>> to the signal that is uncorrelated (the part that comes from
>>> tiny, independant, local events, i.e. noise.)

>> Just to split hairs, but then he's right.

>> Large capsule means more noise.

>> Large capsule also means proportionaly more signal than noise, all
>> other things being equal.

> Nope. More than proportional.

I was using proportional in the loose sense, IOW not necessarily a strict or
linear proportion.

> The uncorrelated signal adds in an RMS fashion

Agreed. Square root of the sum of the squares.

> while the signal adds linearly with respect to area.

Agreed, simply the sum.

> So, as I said, the correlated signal is
> larger relative to the uncorrelated signal as the diameter
> increases. I.e., the SNR gets bigger.

Agreed. It's what you said by means of explanation, but its not the negation
of the statement you disagreed with. The problem with the OPs statement was
not that it was wrong, it was incomplete and therefore led to an incorrect
conclusion.
Anonymous
July 30, 2004 12:22:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<< I've never had the pleasure of trying one of these... anyone ever try 'em
on overheads? If so, how'd they work out? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? >>

Bueller's not here, man, but I have used a pair of TLM193s on overheads & they
were OK, but not as OK as a pair of KM140s, or KM84s. No specific objection,
it's just that I keep going back to my old KM84s after every new dalliance with
overhead pairs.

Scott Fraser
Anonymous
July 30, 2004 7:46:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I've only got one and haven't tried it over a kit, but it's been stellar
on everything else I've ever used it for -- acu gtr, a flute that was
too edgy through most other mics around here, vocals (duh), VO...

Like everyone else has said, it is NOT a "character" mic, but that's its
appeal -- it's perfect for applications where you want uncolored, or
where a "hype" mic exaggerates undesirable stuff.

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)

<neil.henderson@sbcglobal.netNOSPAM> wrote in message
news:D 8gOc.21889$Vg5.10578@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com...
> "JK" <mmatrix@concentric.net> wrote in message
> news:ceaupu$j2v@dispatch.concentric.net...
> > I've had great success with the TLM193 on female vocals...
>
> I've never had the pleasure of trying one of these... anyone ever try
'em
> on overheads? If so, how'd they work out? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?
> --
>
>
> Neil Henderson
> Saqqara Records
> http://www.saqqararecords.com
>
>
>
>
Anonymous
July 31, 2004 3:41:53 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Well dont know is it external preamp that comes with my x-schools Nady or
what makes it much
more sensitive and nicer that most Senn K6+ME66 like solutions we have..
Shure VP88 seems very noisy and unusable for this purpose....

recording things like watch switches.., hand movement etc. in small
voicebooth...

..jukka

"Jukka Andersson" <moc.otsamhir@nossredna.akkuj> wrote in message
news:ukONc.249$fw3.63@read3.inet.fi...
> Need to find natural sounding uncoloured large capsule microphone
> to be used in studio for gathering sound from small items.
>
> Needs to have good s/n ratio and at least 20-20.000Hz frequency response,
> not so accurate at low end bottom but high frequencies should be there.
>
> Something from Rode?
>
> .jukka
>
>
Anonymous
July 31, 2004 3:51:53 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 19:41:53 -0400, Jukka Andersson wrote
(in article <51BOc.511$vZ5.157@read3.inet.fi>):

> Well dont know is it external preamp that comes with my x-schools Nady or
> what makes it much
> more sensitive and nicer that most Senn K6+ME66 like solutions we have..
> Shure VP88 seems very noisy and unusable for this purpose....
>
> recording things like watch switches.., hand movement etc. in small
> voicebooth...

Hmm,

A tlm 103, one of the new AKG C414 and Senn MKH50 come to mind. All pretty
darn quiet.

Ty Ford




-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at http://home.comcast.net/~tyreeford
Anonymous
July 31, 2004 6:46:48 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Ty Ford" <tyreeford@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:j7udnUafdLB8ipbcRVn-pA@comcast.com...
> On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 19:41:53 -0400, Jukka Andersson wrote
> (in article <51BOc.511$vZ5.157@read3.inet.fi>):
>
> > Well dont know is it external preamp that comes with my x-schools Nady
or
> > what makes it much
> > more sensitive and nicer that most Senn K6+ME66 like solutions we have..
> > Shure VP88 seems very noisy and unusable for this purpose....
> >
> > recording things like watch switches.., hand movement etc. in small
> > voicebooth...
>
> Hmm,
>
> A tlm 103, one of the new AKG C414 and Senn MKH50 come to mind. All pretty
> darn quiet.
>
> Ty Ford

need to check if something fits my overall needs. I already have Oktava
MC011 that I used
because it seems pretty good or at least better that AKG C1000 or even this
other nice stereo Shure FP88

what about preamp, dont know is our Sound devices mixpre that quiet but I
like it.
Other solutions are Yamaha AW4416, 01V, 12 channel basic Mackie, 24 channel
Sound Tracs, Shure FP33A....

..jukka


>
>
>
>
> -- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other
audiocentric
> stuff are at http://home.comcast.net/~tyreeford
>
Anonymous
August 1, 2004 10:11:46 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Will Miho wrote:

> The TLM 193 has the same capsule as the U89 right, and a similar
> frequency response in a transformerless version?

Basically yes--the TLM 193 uses the same (K 89) capsule as the U 89 and
TLM 170. This might be called a "medium-diaphragm" capsule--it's between
the size of a U 47 or U 87 (large) capsule and a KM whatever (small) one.
But only the front diaphragm is connected to the circuitry. This makes
the mike a few dB quieter than the TLM 170 or U 89, but leaves it stuck
forever as a cardioid. That's unfortunate since the U 89/TLM 170 can be
pretty nice either as wide cardioids or as super-/hypercardioids.

There are no switches or adjustments of any kind on or in the microphone.
It's a little unnerving to take one apart--inside there's just the capsule
assembly and a small circuit board with wires going to the XLR connector.
Those parts, including the XLR, weigh a total of just 1-1/2 ounces! The
body sleeve is extra heavy, which I suspect was so that the microphone
would feel "serious" enough.

While I'm at it: If anyone's buying a used TLM 193, note that the output
circuit was revised as of S/N 5825 to improve the dynamic range of the
microphone a few dB; this affected the sensitivity, so for use as a pair,
both microphones should be either below or above that serial number. The
circuit revision also affected the phantom power requirement--the newer,
better version needs a little more current than the original version did.

--best regards
Anonymous
August 1, 2004 10:36:27 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Woodworm wrote:

> t was my experience THEN, with the equipment and technology I had
> available then, that I would generally resort to a smaller diaphragm
> condenser (or even a dynamic mic, g*d forbid I should say that) for
> these tiny little (usually high-pitched) sounds.
>
> Without checking specs or any tech bakground at the time, it just
> appeared to my ears that the overall noise produced by the microphone
> was less intrusive.

You're not wrong. The equation of larger diaphragm = greater capacitance
= lower equivalent noise is valid only if "all other things are equal"--
in other words, only if the microphone is designed specifically for the
sake of lowest equivalent noise. The potential was there but it wasn't
generally utilized in large-diaphragm microphones until digital recording
became widespread in the early 1980s. At that point all the electronics
in the studio were re-examined by the industry, and for better or worse,
most were revised.

In particular, microphones in the past were never designed for the lowest
possible A-weighted equivalent noise specs. Those specs are the basis
for a marketing war which reached a special frenzy with the introduction
of the Neumann TLM 103 in 1997.

As some people here know, I'm not an anti-specifications person. But
A-weighting doesn't correspond very closely to audibility at such low
levels, so competition to achieve awesome-looking results on this spec
can be harmful. If the engineers are told by the boys in marketing that
they MUST deliver a competitive A-weighted equivalent noise spec, it's
quite tempting to tweak the capsule and electronics more for that than,
say, for the best possible sound out of the microphone as a whole.

David Josephson, who is (rightfully IMO) a hero to many of us on this
board, has been heading an AES working committee to try to put together
a more reasonable set of specifications for studio microphones. Help is
on the way, though it's taken some very smart people years already ...
Anonymous
August 1, 2004 3:29:24 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Sat, 31 Jul 2004 10:46:48 -0400, Jukka Andersson wrote
(in article <shOOc.182$Zb7.10@read3.inet.fi>):

>
> "Ty Ford" <tyreeford@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:j7udnUafdLB8ipbcRVn-pA@comcast.com...
>> On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 19:41:53 -0400, Jukka Andersson wrote
>> (in article <51BOc.511$vZ5.157@read3.inet.fi>):
>>
>>> Well dont know is it external preamp that comes with my x-schools Nady
> or
>>> what makes it much
>>> more sensitive and nicer that most Senn K6+ME66 like solutions we have..
>>> Shure VP88 seems very noisy and unusable for this purpose....
>>>
>>> recording things like watch switches.., hand movement etc. in small
>>> voicebooth...
>>
>> Hmm,
>>
>> A tlm 103, one of the new AKG C414 and Senn MKH50 come to mind. All pretty
>> darn quiet.
>>
>> Ty Ford
>
> need to check if something fits my overall needs. I already have Oktava
> MC011 that I used
> because it seems pretty good or at least better that AKG C1000 or even this
> other nice stereo Shure FP88

Good luck. They are not as quiet.

Ty Ford




-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at http://home.comcast.net/~tyreeford
Anonymous
August 2, 2004 10:57:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

>eed to find natural sounding uncoloured large capsule microphone
>to be used in studio for gathering sound from small items.
>
>Needs to have good s/n ratio and at least 20-20.000Hz frequency response,
>not so accurate at low end bottom but high frequencies should be there.
>
>Something from Rode?
>
>.jukka
>
>

If you want "uncolored" use a smaller diaphragm microphone.

The frequency response will be smoother off axis.

Low self noise has a lot to do with how much you are willing to spend.
Richard H. Kuschel
"I canna change the law of physics."-----Scotty
!