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Mic advice please !

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July 30, 2004 3:28:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hi,
I have around $2000 to $2500 to spend on mics. I need a stereo pair of
small diaphram condensors for general use (drum OH main, and
electric/acoustic guitar and piano), and one large diaphram condensor
mainly for vocals.

I had narrowed it down to a pair of Neumann KM184's and a Neumann
TLM103, but I want to see if people have any better suggestions for me
to think about around that price range ?

I've heard the KM184's aren't the most natural sounding mics, and that
is what has made me stop and think. I know I should audition the mics
but its hard for me to do that over here in the UK, so any advice would
be much appreciated.

The other small condensor mics I've heard good things about are the
Josephson C-42MP. How do these compare to the KM184's ?

This is my first purchase of "higher end" mics, currently I just have a
bunch of SM57's and a Beta52. The preamps I'm using are RNP's if that
makes any difference.

Thanks muchly in advance.

Mark.
--

More about : mic advice

Anonymous
July 30, 2004 3:28:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <cedbcj$km4$1@hercules.btinternet.com>, Mark <m@nospam.net> wrote:
>
>The other small condensor mics I've heard good things about are the
>Josephson C-42MP. How do these compare to the KM184's ?

I think they are a step up from the KM184s, but don't believe me. Get
your Neumann dealer to loan you a pair of KM184s, and I know that Fletcher
will loan you a pair of Josephsons on a credit card. Try both and listen
to them.

>This is my first purchase of "higher end" mics, currently I just have a
>bunch of SM57's and a Beta52. The preamps I'm using are RNP's if that
>makes any difference.

When you're putting this much money into a microphone, you really need to
listen to it before buying it and get a sense of how you like it. And you
will usually be working with dealers who understand this and are willing
to let you do so.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
July 30, 2004 4:58:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <cedbcj$km4$1@hercules.btinternet.com> m@nospam.net writes:

> I have around $2000 to $2500 to spend on mics. I need a stereo pair of
> small diaphram condensors for general use (drum OH main, and
> electric/acoustic guitar and piano), and one large diaphram condensor
> mainly for vocals.
>
> I had narrowed it down to a pair of Neumann KM184's and a Neumann
> TLM103, but I want to see if people have any better suggestions for me
> to think about around that price range ?

That's a great place to start. With a set of mics like that, it's
unlikely that they'll be completely wrong for anything, and Neumann
mics, even the new ones, tend to hold their value pretty well, so if
you decide that they're just not right enough for what you're doing,
you won't lose much when you trade.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Related resources
July 30, 2004 5:37:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Thanks Scott,
The problem is I'm way over here in the UK, and shifting things around
in the post isn't really an option, especially considering I need them
by the end of the month, postage costs, etc.

I do however understand that its very important to listen and choose
what I prefer. I wonder if there are any samples available of direct
comparisons say between the KM184 and the C-42s ? Perhaps on a piano or
on drums. That would be really useful because then I could hear the
subtle differences and choose from that.

I know that is a bit cheeky, its like asking someone to do the work for
me, but if its been done and someone has samples, then please let me
know and I'll be truley grateful !

Scott, when you say a step up, what differences do you hear in the mics,
on drums especially ? I imagine the top end of my cymbals will sound
different.

To be totally honest, since I'm just starting out on all this, my
untrained ear probably will not hear the difference, and compared to
what I've got, either will probably be a big upgrade.

How about the TLM103, anything else in that price range I should
consider ? I've heard good things about it, especially from Ty.

Thanks,
Mark.
--


Scott Dorsey wrote:
> In article <cedbcj$km4$1@hercules.btinternet.com>, Mark <m@nospam.net> wrote:
>
>>The other small condensor mics I've heard good things about are the
>>Josephson C-42MP. How do these compare to the KM184's ?
>
>
> I think they are a step up from the KM184s, but don't believe me. Get
> your Neumann dealer to loan you a pair of KM184s, and I know that Fletcher
> will loan you a pair of Josephsons on a credit card. Try both and listen
> to them.
>
>
>>This is my first purchase of "higher end" mics, currently I just have a
>>bunch of SM57's and a Beta52. The preamps I'm using are RNP's if that
>>makes any difference.
>
>
> When you're putting this much money into a microphone, you really need to
> listen to it before buying it and get a sense of how you like it. And you
> will usually be working with dealers who understand this and are willing
> to let you do so.
> --scott
Anonymous
July 30, 2004 7:37:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Mark wrote:
> Thanks Scott,
> The problem is I'm way over here in the UK, and shifting things around
> in the post isn't really an option, especially considering I need them
> by the end of the month, postage costs, etc.
>
> I do however understand that its very important to listen and choose
> what I prefer. I wonder if there are any samples available of direct
> comparisons say between the KM184 and the C-42s ? Perhaps on a piano or
> on drums. That would be really useful because then I could hear the
> subtle differences and choose from that.
>
> I know that is a bit cheeky, its like asking someone to do the work for
> me, but if its been done and someone has samples, then please let me
> know and I'll be truley grateful !
>
> Scott, when you say a step up, what differences do you hear in the mics,
> on drums especially ? I imagine the top end of my cymbals will sound
> different.
>
> To be totally honest, since I'm just starting out on all this, my
> untrained ear probably will not hear the difference, and compared to
> what I've got, either will probably be a big upgrade.
>
> How about the TLM103, anything else in that price range I should
> consider ? I've heard good things about it, especially from Ty.
>
> Thanks,
> Mark.

Mark take a listen to a Soundelux U195. It is close in price to the
TLM103 with in a couple of hundred dollars or so. You will not be
disappointed with this mic IMHO. Here's a link. Good Luck!
http://www.soundeluxmics.com/products/u195.asp

Jim

--
it is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your
mouth and remove all doubt....
Anonymous
July 30, 2004 7:37:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Fri, 30 Jul 2004 15:37:13 GMT, LJM <ljmax@NOwhere.net> wrote:

>Mark wrote:
>> Thanks Scott,
>> The problem is I'm way over here in the UK, and shifting things around
>> in the post isn't really an option, especially considering I need them
>> by the end of the month, postage costs, etc.
>>
>> I do however understand that its very important to listen and choose
>> what I prefer. I wonder if there are any samples available of direct
>> comparisons say between the KM184 and the C-42s ? Perhaps on a piano or
>> on drums. That would be really useful because then I could hear the
>> subtle differences and choose from that.
>>
>> I know that is a bit cheeky, its like asking someone to do the work for
>> me, but if its been done and someone has samples, then please let me
>> know and I'll be truley grateful !
>>
>> Scott, when you say a step up, what differences do you hear in the mics,
>> on drums especially ? I imagine the top end of my cymbals will sound
>> different.
>>
>> To be totally honest, since I'm just starting out on all this, my
>> untrained ear probably will not hear the difference, and compared to
>> what I've got, either will probably be a big upgrade.
>>
>> How about the TLM103, anything else in that price range I should
>> consider ? I've heard good things about it, especially from Ty.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Mark.
>
>Mark take a listen to a Soundelux U195. It is close in price to the
>TLM103 with in a couple of hundred dollars or so. You will not be
>disappointed with this mic IMHO. Here's a link. Good Luck!
>http://www.soundeluxmics.com/products/u195.asp

I love my U195!
July 30, 2004 7:59:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Thanks ! I am actually considering one of these too.

Cheers,
Mark.
--

>
> Mark take a listen to a Soundelux U195. It is close in price to the
> TLM103 with in a couple of hundred dollars or so. You will not be
> disappointed with this mic IMHO. Here's a link. Good Luck!
> http://www.soundeluxmics.com/products/u195.asp
>
> Jim
>
Anonymous
July 31, 2004 12:34:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <cedbcj$km4$1@hercules.btinternet.com>, Mark <m@nospam.net> writes:

>I had narrowed it down to a pair of Neumann KM184's and a Neumann
>TLM103, but I want to see if people have any better suggestions for me
>to think about around that price range ?

I'll put in another vote for the Soundelux U195 in the LD category. I have a
pair of these and they get used a lot. Great on a variety of sources including
vocals. I've even found that I like them as drum OH even though they are not
small diaphram mics. Something nice about the way they treat high frequencies.

Garth~


"I think the fact that music can come up a wire is a miracle."
Ed Cherney
Anonymous
July 31, 2004 4:03:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 31 Jul 2004 08:34:38 GMT, garthrr@aol.com (Garth) wrote:

>In article <cedbcj$km4$1@hercules.btinternet.com>, Mark <m@nospam.net> writes:
>
>>I had narrowed it down to a pair of Neumann KM184's and a Neumann
>>TLM103, but I want to see if people have any better suggestions for me
>>to think about around that price range ?
>
>I'll put in another vote for the Soundelux U195 in the LD category. I have a
>pair of these and they get used a lot. Great on a variety of sources including
>vocals. I've even found that I like them as drum OH even though they are not
>small diaphram mics. Something nice about the way they treat high frequencies.
>
>Garth~
>

Yep... I recently used my U195 as a mono drum overhead and was really
impressed. Now I may need to buy another one of them, darn it.

Al
Anonymous
August 3, 2004 9:20:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Mark wrote:
> Thanks Scott,
> The problem is I'm way over here in the UK, and shifting things around
> in the post isn't really an option, especially considering I need them
> by the end of the month, postage costs, etc.

Why ever not ? Especially considering the $$$ invloved. You could have
whatever in 2 days.

>
> How about the TLM103, anything else in that price range I should
> consider ? I've heard good things about it, especially from Ty.


184s are bright, 103 is bright. Maybe a little much on the bright side
going on here ? Conventional r.a.p wisdom dictates that a pair on 84s off
ebay is possibly a good way to go ...

geoff
August 5, 2004 6:02:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Thanks for your advise all :-)

Mark.
--

Mark wrote:
> Hi,
> I have around $2000 to $2500 to spend on mics. I need a stereo pair of
> small diaphram condensors for general use (drum OH main, and
> electric/acoustic guitar and piano), and one large diaphram condensor
> mainly for vocals.
>
> I had narrowed it down to a pair of Neumann KM184's and a Neumann
> TLM103, but I want to see if people have any better suggestions for me
> to think about around that price range ?
>
> I've heard the KM184's aren't the most natural sounding mics, and that
> is what has made me stop and think. I know I should audition the mics
> but its hard for me to do that over here in the UK, so any advice would
> be much appreciated.
>
> The other small condensor mics I've heard good things about are the
> Josephson C-42MP. How do these compare to the KM184's ?
>
> This is my first purchase of "higher end" mics, currently I just have a
> bunch of SM57's and a Beta52. The preamps I'm using are RNP's if that
> makes any difference.
>
> Thanks muchly in advance.
>
> Mark.
> --
August 16, 2004 10:10:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

i think you "framed the argument" well.

it is a completely excellent decision to think tlm-103 and pair of
km-184's, and then think, "what can beat this"?

Neumann is the gold standard, and you hit it exactly right.

Some people don't understand what "gold standard" is. Gold standard
means something that has a proven, widespread acceptance in the
marketplace, and that other things are benchmarked against. It
doesn't automatically mean "the best on the planet", although it does
carry a connotation of excellence.

So it's basically 103 + pair of 184's vs. the world in the price range
of $2500 total. very good argument to ponder and search through.
Anonymous
August 16, 2004 10:31:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Mark <m@nospam.net> wrote in message news:<cedivd$96n$1@titan.btinternet.com>...
> Thanks Scott,
> The problem is I'm way over here in the UK, and shifting things around
> in the post isn't really an option, especially considering I need them
> by the end of the month, postage costs, etc.

Unless you're at the far west-end of Cornwall or north of Inverness, I
strongly believe that UK dealers will lend you equipment if they are
serious about doing business with you, and the cost of having mics
sent to you by Parcel Force still outweights favourably the risk of
buying "blind". Dealers make a margin for "added value" (25% or so:) .
Get them to demo. They even have staff that travel around the country,
so ask them to stop at your place for a day. It's not just lorries
running up and down the M40, M1, M4, etc... Its full of reps in
Cavaliers, Mondeos (and even beemers...)



> I do however understand that its very important to listen and choose
> what I prefer. I wonder if there are any samples available of direct
> comparisons say between the KM184 and the C-42s ? Perhaps on a piano or
> on drums. That would be really useful because then I could hear the
> subtle differences and choose from that.


Alternatively, book a studio with a decent mic closet for a couple of
hours to make up your mind. You should get a decent place for a
hundred quid or so, as occupancy is pretty low these days. And you'll
get also opinions from the in-house assistants and engineers. A rather
good investment I should say in view of the pile of dosh you're about
to part with (I hate to end a sentence with a preposition).
Anonymous
August 16, 2004 10:57:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Mark" <m@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:cedbcj$km4$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
> I have around $2000 to $2500 to spend on mics. I need a stereo pair of
> small diaphram condensors for general use (drum OH main, and
> electric/acoustic guitar and piano), and one large diaphram condensor
> mainly for vocals.


If I had $2000 to $2500 for mikes, it's a no-brainer that I'd buy a pair of
Schoeps hypercardioid mikes. They sound better on vocals than the majority
of large diaphram mikes.

--
Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery, Nashville TN
Mastering, Audio for Picture, Mix Evaluation and Quality Control
Over 40 years making people sound better than they ever imagined!
615.385.8051 http://www.hyperback.com
Anonymous
August 16, 2004 11:32:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 14:57:47 -0400, Bob Olhsson wrote
(in article <Ls7Uc.460221$Gx4.80211@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>):

> "Mark" <m@nospam.net> wrote in message
> news:cedbcj$km4$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
>> I have around $2000 to $2500 to spend on mics. I need a stereo pair of
>> small diaphram condensors for general use (drum OH main, and
>> electric/acoustic guitar and piano), and one large diaphram condensor
>> mainly for vocals.
>
>
> If I had $2000 to $2500 for mikes, it's a no-brainer that I'd buy a pair of
> Schoeps hypercardioid mikes. They sound better on vocals than the majority
> of large diaphram mikes.
>
>

Um, we think alike!

Ty Ford



-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at http://home.comcast.net/~tyreeford
Anonymous
August 17, 2004 12:25:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 21:10:33 -0400, xy wrote
(in article <6c38b64b.0408161710.5870d9d@posting.google.com>):

> i think you "framed the argument" well.
>
> it is a completely excellent decision to think tlm-103 and pair of
> km-184's, and then think, "what can beat this"?
>
> Neumann is the gold standard, and you hit it exactly right.
>
> Some people don't understand what "gold standard" is. Gold standard
> means something that has a proven, widespread acceptance in the
> marketplace, and that other things are benchmarked against. It
> doesn't automatically mean "the best on the planet", although it does
> carry a connotation of excellence.
>
> So it's basically 103 + pair of 184's vs. the world in the price range
> of $2500 total. very good argument to ponder and search through.

The 184 are rather bright (as in a hyped top end) relative to the Schoeps
cmc641. A pair of matched (and probably used) KM 84 would be better.

Regards,

Ty Ford



-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at http://home.comcast.net/~tyreeford
August 17, 2004 1:42:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hi Bob,
Thanks, I'll certainly bare that in mind on my next mic purchase. My aim is
to build a reasonable mic collection to choose what is best for the job, so
I'm not limiting myself, its just the next step after currently only owning
SM57's.

Its probably going to take me a while to "learn" to use these new mics
properly and to there full potential. I'll certainly have fun (and probably
frustration) while doing so !

I think the people around me think I'm strange getting excited about mics
and pre-amps..

Cheers,
Mark.
--

"Bob Olhsson" <olh@hyperback.com> wrote in message
news:Ls7Uc.460221$Gx4.80211@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> "Mark" <m@nospam.net> wrote in message
> news:cedbcj$km4$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
> > I have around $2000 to $2500 to spend on mics. I need a stereo pair of
> > small diaphram condensors for general use (drum OH main, and
> > electric/acoustic guitar and piano), and one large diaphram condensor
> > mainly for vocals.
>
>
> If I had $2000 to $2500 for mikes, it's a no-brainer that I'd buy a pair
of
> Schoeps hypercardioid mikes. They sound better on vocals than the
majority
> of large diaphram mikes.
>
> --
> Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery, Nashville TN
> Mastering, Audio for Picture, Mix Evaluation and Quality Control
> Over 40 years making people sound better than they ever imagined!
> 615.385.8051 http://www.hyperback.com
>
>
Anonymous
August 17, 2004 1:42:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 04:42:50 -0400, Mark wrote
(in article <4121c4c6$0$41781$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net>):

> Hi Bob,
> Thanks, I'll certainly bare that in mind on my next mic purchase. My aim is
> to build a reasonable mic collection to choose what is best for the job, so
> I'm not limiting myself, its just the next step after currently only owning
> SM57's.
>
> Its probably going to take me a while to "learn" to use these new mics
> properly and to there full potential. I'll certainly have fun (and probably
> frustration) while doing so !
>
> I think the people around me think I'm strange getting excited about mics
> and pre-amps..
>
> Cheers,
> Mark.

Well you came to the right place!

Ty Ford




-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at http://home.comcast.net/~tyreeford
!