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Far Cry vs. HL2 - 2 cents

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Anonymous
January 16, 2005 5:10:47 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

IMO, both HL2 and Far Cry are great games for different reasons.

Bang for buck (literal purchase price and time developing it), I gotta give
the nod to Far Cry. (I paid $40 Far Cry and $55 HL2 CD) FC is the underdog
here, pretty much coming out of nowhere and kicking ass. In fact, HL2 would
have had a much bigger impact on me had FC not stole it's thunder a bit by
being released first.

Non-linearism... without doubt... Far Cry.

AI... again, Far Cry (though far from what I'd like to see... compared to
HL2, it's siginficantly better).

Replayablity (mostly due to the non-linearism and better AI), again goes to
Far Cry.

Original game play elements. A lean to HL2. How cool was the grav gun,
impaling people, cutting them in half? Lots of fun with physics. For Far
Cry you've got the helio reinforcements (often linked to the alarm) and
great vehicles and the relatively untouched paradise island theme.

Vehicles? Well, HL2 had some cool ones, but SOOO linear. I gotta give this
one to FC.

Story? Ah, who knows? HL2 had all the elements but story was so
disconnected it collapsed. FC's story efforts were weak and characters were
undeveloped... they didn't really even try.

Realisitic environment. Loved creeping through the weeds and loved the
paradise island theme, but gotta go to HL2. Sweet job on the little details
of scenery and objects.

Monsters? Clearly HL2 had more and better variety.

Variety of environment... HL2.

Graphics.. game engine. HL2, 'course.

Mods? Far Cry has a few good ones, but far less than I'd hoped. HL2...
crossing fingers.

More about : cry hl2 cents

Anonymous
January 16, 2005 5:47:36 AM

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JoeSmooth wrote:
> IMO, both HL2 and Far Cry are great games for different reasons.
>
> Bang for buck (literal purchase price and time developing it), I
gotta give
> the nod to Far Cry. (I paid $40 Far Cry and $55 HL2 CD) FC is the
underdog
> here, pretty much coming out of nowhere and kicking ass. In fact,
HL2 would
> have had a much bigger impact on me had FC not stole it's thunder a
bit by
> being released first.

You would have to be crazy to say there is more value in Far Cry than
in HL2.
Anonymous
January 16, 2005 6:49:13 AM

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Morgan Sales wrote:

> Why? It is possible that someone can just have a different opinion.

Here's the deal, those with both Far Cry and HL2 come back in 2 years
time and tell us which game you think gave you more value for money.
Related resources
Anonymous
January 16, 2005 7:05:42 AM

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Morgan Sales wrote:

> Why wait 2 years?

One word... mods and I have no doubt in my mind which game is going to
deliver tremendous value on that front.
Anonymous
January 16, 2005 1:55:08 PM

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cr0n1k@hotmail.com wrote:
> JoeSmooth wrote:
>> IMO, both HL2 and Far Cry are great games for different reasons.
>>
>> Bang for buck (literal purchase price and time developing it), I
>> gotta give the nod to Far Cry. (I paid $40 Far Cry and $55 HL2 CD)
>> FC is the underdog here, pretty much coming out of nowhere and
>> kicking ass. In fact, HL2 would have had a much bigger impact on me
>> had FC not stole it's thunder a bit by being released first.
>
> You would have to be crazy to say there is more value in Far Cry than
> in HL2.

Why? It is possible that someone can just have a different opinion.

--
Morgan.
----
* ...When you participate in a sporting event, it's not whether you win or
lose, it's how drunk you get.

Mail: Morgan.Sales@ntlworld.com
Webpage: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/msales
Anonymous
January 16, 2005 1:55:39 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

<cr0n1k@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1105872456.598493.221300@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> JoeSmooth wrote:
> > IMO, both HL2 and Far Cry are great games for different reasons.
> >
> > Bang for buck (literal purchase price and time developing it), I
> gotta give
> > the nod to Far Cry. (I paid $40 Far Cry and $55 HL2 CD) FC is the
> underdog
> > here, pretty much coming out of nowhere and kicking ass. In fact,
> HL2 would
> > have had a much bigger impact on me had FC not stole it's thunder a
> bit by
> > being released first.
>
> You would have to be crazy to say there is more value in Far Cry than
> in HL2.

There is more value in Far Cry than HL2 for the reasons specified. I liked
the multi-approach option to taking out your targets. Better weapons, plus
you can look through the sights of them. The engine gave a much better
impression of being an "open" place... you can take a boat and literally go
for miles and miles in the ocean. Can't do any of that with HL2. And of
course no Steam garbage.
Anonymous
January 16, 2005 3:01:23 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

cr0n1k@hotmail.com wrote:
> Morgan Sales wrote:
>
>> Why? It is possible that someone can just have a different opinion.
>
> Here's the deal, those with both Far Cry and HL2 come back in 2 years
> time and tell us which game you think gave you more value for money.

Why wait 2 years? People have played both now. Personally I prefer HL2, but
I don't have a problem with people preferring FC.

--
Morgan.
----
* You should *never* miss a chance to help keep a Tory away from power..
It's a moral duty... :- Steve Brooks

Mail: Morgan.Sales@ntlworld.com
Webpage: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/msales
Anonymous
January 16, 2005 3:52:26 PM

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JoeSmooth wrote:

>
> Non-linearism... without doubt... Far Cry.
>

The most overhyped feature of FC, IMO.

Being able to sneak through a different bush from a different angle to
complete the same task is hardly non linear.
Anonymous
January 16, 2005 3:52:27 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Walter Mitty wrote:
> JoeSmooth wrote:
>
>>
>> Non-linearism... without doubt... Far Cry.
>>
>
> The most overhyped feature of FC, IMO.
>
> Being able to sneak through a different bush from a different angle to
> complete the same task is hardly non linear.

The problem with FC is that it does keep the none-lineararity up. At times
it is very none linear(especially by FPS standards) But for the majority of
it, it just allows for slightly different tactics like you describe above.

--
Morgan.
----
* You should *never* miss a chance to help keep a Tory away from power..
It's a moral duty... :- Steve Brooks

Mail: Morgan.Sales@ntlworld.com
Webpage: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/msales
Anonymous
January 16, 2005 4:39:27 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

John Lewis wrote:

> ... and require little or no tactical thinking.

Actually there were plenty of situations in HL2 that required tactical
thinking and could be solved in various ways, the turret defense in
Nova Prospekt springs to mind.
Anonymous
January 16, 2005 4:51:20 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

cr0n1k@hotmail.com wrote:
> Morgan Sales wrote:
>
>
>>Why wait 2 years?
>
>
> One word... mods and I have no doubt in my mind which game is going to
> deliver tremendous value on that front.
>

Well, it seems we know which one certainly isn't. Where are all ths
autonomous AI enhancements (cough) and wonderful community enhancements
to that snorefest Far Cry? Yeah, yeah, great foliage and water, but
there was "the game"?

--
Walter Mitty
-
Useless, waste of money research of the day : http://tinyurl.com/5fqgb
"Underground cities increase risk of flood danger". Nice.
http://www.tinyurl.com
Anonymous
January 16, 2005 4:52:25 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Morgan Sales wrote:
> Walter Mitty wrote:
>
>>JoeSmooth wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Non-linearism... without doubt... Far Cry.
>>>
>>
>>The most overhyped feature of FC, IMO.
>>
>>Being able to sneak through a different bush from a different angle to
>>complete the same task is hardly non linear.
>
>
> The problem with FC is that it does keep the none-lineararity up. At times
> it is very none linear(especially by FPS standards) But for the majority of
> it, it just allows for slightly different tactics like you describe above.
>

Where is Far Cry "non linear"? I totally disagree. It is as linear as
the next game IMO. Some nice touches like the Hand Glider but really
nothing non linear there at all.
Anonymous
January 16, 2005 4:52:26 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

> Where is Far Cry "non linear"? I totally disagree. It is as linear as the
> next game IMO. Some nice touches like the Hand Glider but really nothing
> non linear there at all.

Whatever you want to call it, Far Cry gives you more "avenues" to explore
than HL-2.
Anonymous
January 16, 2005 4:52:27 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

redTed wrote:
>> Where is Far Cry "non linear"? I totally disagree. It is as linear
>> as the next game IMO. Some nice touches like the Hand Glider but
>> really nothing non linear there at all.
>
> Whatever you want to call it, Far Cry gives you more "avenues" to
> explore than HL-2.

The part that always sticks in my mind is about half way through. You have
to move from one island to another destroying radio masks. The first bit is
pretty standard. Hit the first island and kill everything that moves. The
next bit is where it starts to branch out though. There are two gunboats in
the water between you and the next island. And you've got a dingy. MY
personal strategy way to lie on the dock, snipe the enemies in the gunboats.
Then use the dingy to get to the boat. Then use the gun boat to do an
assault on the dock at the next island which has about three different
landing points to choose from.

Ok this may not be the most none-linier game in the world, but it's still
pretty none-linear by FPS standards.

--
Morgan.
----
* Damn, just put my Polos in the bin.

Mail: Morgan.Sales@ntlworld.com
Webpage: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/msales
Anonymous
January 16, 2005 5:09:07 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

redTed wrote:
>>Where is Far Cry "non linear"? I totally disagree. It is as linear as the
>>next game IMO. Some nice touches like the Hand Glider but really nothing
>>non linear there at all.
>
>
> Whatever you want to call it, Far Cry gives you more "avenues" to explore
> than HL-2.
>
>

True : but how long can walking around yet another lush green hill
remain exciting or gripping?

Exploring is not a game : there is nothing out there - just more dense
foliage.
January 16, 2005 5:09:08 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Walter Mitty wrote:
> redTed wrote:
>>> Where is Far Cry "non linear"? I totally disagree. It is as linear
>>> as the next game IMO. Some nice touches like the Hand Glider but
>>> really nothing non linear there at all.
>>
>>
>> Whatever you want to call it, Far Cry gives you more "avenues" to
>> explore than HL-2.
>>
>>
>
> True : but how long can walking around yet another lush green hill
> remain exciting or gripping?
>
> Exploring is not a game : there is nothing out there - just more dense
> foliage.

Uh, you could also choose to use a boat or another vehicle. The point is
that you could go on foot or vehicle from many different avenues. In HL2 you
are pretty much locked in to a given course of action although with the cool
physics you can sometimes find a creative way to get around certain
barriers.

Why are dissing one game over another again? Both games have their merits
and I found both fun to play in their own ways.
Anonymous
January 16, 2005 5:28:23 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Kroagnon wrote:

> you can take a boat and literally go for miles and miles in the
ocean.

How exactly is that fun though?
Anonymous
January 16, 2005 7:48:29 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Walter Mitty" <mitticus@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:csdkhp$iab$03$1@news.t-online.com...
> JoeSmooth wrote:
>
> >
> > Non-linearism... without doubt... Far Cry.
> >
>
> The most overhyped feature of FC, IMO.

It really is immensely more non-linear than HL2. I have literally played
and replace the same senario several times with FC, but with HL2 most of the
time you are limited to one approach. I enjoy finding new ways to ambush
and approach the mercs. Use the vehicle. Use some stealth. Use nads. I
admit, I'm a little geeky that way, and it's not for everyone, but it's what
I enjoy. I did the same thing on HL2 in some of the buildings found while
in the buggy. Ironically, these buildings in most cases could have been
skipped, but in many ways I enjoyed them most.

>
> Being able to sneak through a different bush from a different angle to
> complete the same task is hardly non linear.

Awe, you're enough of veteran gamer to know there's a lot more to it than
that. GTA3 is the best non-linear game I've played. Far Cry is #2.
Anonymous
January 16, 2005 8:04:18 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Morgan Sales" <morgan.salesDIESPAMMER@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:34v3ikF4b33qmU1@individual.net...
> Walter Mitty wrote:
> > JoeSmooth wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Non-linearism... without doubt... Far Cry.
> >>
> >
> > The most overhyped feature of FC, IMO.
> >
> > Being able to sneak through a different bush from a different angle to
> > complete the same task is hardly non linear.
>
> The problem with FC is that it does keep the none-lineararity up. At
times
> it is very none linear(especially by FPS standards) But for the majority
of
> it, it just allows for slightly different tactics like you describe above.

All games are linear in the bigger sense. I'm talking in terms of "relative
to what's out there". For me the "different tactics" are what make FC more
original than most and what give it such replay value. How cool it is
depends on your play style and what you think "fun" is.


>
> --
> Morgan.
> ----
> * You should *never* miss a chance to help keep a Tory away from power..
> It's a moral duty... :- Steve Brooks
>
> Mail: Morgan.Sales@ntlworld.com
> Webpage: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/msales
>
>
>
Anonymous
January 16, 2005 8:25:46 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On 16 Jan 2005 02:47:36 -0800, cr0n1k@hotmail.com wrote:

>
>JoeSmooth wrote:
>> IMO, both HL2 and Far Cry are great games for different reasons.
>>
>> Bang for buck (literal purchase price and time developing it), I
>gotta give
>> the nod to Far Cry. (I paid $40 Far Cry and $55 HL2 CD) FC is the
>underdog
>> here, pretty much coming out of nowhere and kicking ass. In fact,
>HL2 would
>> have had a much bigger impact on me had FC not stole it's thunder a
>bit by
>> being released first.
>
>You would have to be crazy to say there is more value in Far Cry than
>in HL2.

At least he took the time and effort to do a reasonable comparison...
all you can do is act like a parrot...

John Lewis
>
Anonymous
January 16, 2005 8:32:31 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 13:51:20 +0100, Walter Mitty
<mitticus@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>cr0n1k@hotmail.com wrote:
>> Morgan Sales wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Why wait 2 years?
>>
>>
>> One word... mods and I have no doubt in my mind which game is going to
>> deliver tremendous value on that front.
>>
>
>Well, it seems we know which one certainly isn't. Where are all ths
>autonomous AI enhancements (cough) and wonderful community enhancements
>to that snorefest Far Cry? Yeah, yeah, great foliage and water, but
>there was "the game"?

Er... Crytek are still a very active developer and now supported by EA
as a 3rd-party independent like DICE (Battlefield series). FC was
their very first effort....let's see what they produce next....... At
least we know what to expect next from Valve, HL2 add-ons courtesy of
Steam.... yawn.........

John Lewis


>
>--
>Walter Mitty
>-
>Useless, waste of money research of the day : http://tinyurl.com/5fqgb
>"Underground cities increase risk of flood danger". Nice.
>http://www.tinyurl.com
Anonymous
January 16, 2005 8:39:13 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Walter Mitty wrote:
> JoeSmooth wrote:
>
>>
>> Non-linearism... without doubt... Far Cry.
>>
>
> The most overhyped feature of FC, IMO.
>
> Being able to sneak through a different bush from a different angle to
> complete the same task is hardly non linear.

That's the most overhyped feature of Far Cry? Acually I'd have to go
with the AI as being the most overhyped. Let's face it, the AI isn't
that good.
Anonymous
January 16, 2005 8:53:16 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 12:52:26 +0100, Walter Mitty
<mitticus@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>JoeSmooth wrote:
>
>>
>> Non-linearism... without doubt... Far Cry.
>>
>
>The most overhyped feature of FC, IMO.
>
>Being able to sneak through a different bush from a different angle to
>complete the same task is hardly non linear.


Please engage brain before typing. In FC you can shoot or sneak or do
both in many, many places. You obviously only have an interest in
single-player games which solely involve:-

Bang-bang-I'm-quicker-than-you-you're-dead-or-I'm-dead-restart-from-
last-save-point.

.... and require little or no tactical thinking.

You have a perfect right to like such games. However, please do not
belittle those who would like to play a FPS with a little more
tactical depth and open game-play than you are willing to tolerate. In
fact, tactical depth accompanied with decent AI is the direction
single-player FPS games will move now that reasonably decent CPU
horsepower is available at affordable prices. The more realistic and
flexible the action, the more immersive the gameplay experience
becomes. Graphics have already attained a decent level of immersive
realism, however bot-intelligence in open areas is now a major focus
of needed technical improvement.

John Lewis
Anonymous
January 16, 2005 8:57:57 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 13:32:05 -0000, "Morgan Sales"
<morgan.salesDIESPAMMER@ntlworld.com> wrote:

>redTed wrote:
>>> Where is Far Cry "non linear"? I totally disagree. It is as linear
>>> as the next game IMO. Some nice touches like the Hand Glider but
>>> really nothing non linear there at all.
>>
>> Whatever you want to call it, Far Cry gives you more "avenues" to
>> explore than HL-2.
>
>The part that always sticks in my mind is about half way through. You have
>to move from one island to another destroying radio masks. The first bit is
>pretty standard. Hit the first island and kill everything that moves.

You don't have to.... Some swimming/sneaking exercises are very
helpful in conserving/stealing weapons and ammo..and minimizing
the blood-letting.

John Lewis

> The
>next bit is where it starts to branch out though. There are two gunboats in
>the water between you and the next island. And you've got a dingy. MY
>personal strategy way to lie on the dock, snipe the enemies in the gunboats.
>Then use the dingy to get to the boat. Then use the gun boat to do an
>assault on the dock at the next island which has about three different
>landing points to choose from.
>
>Ok this may not be the most none-linier game in the world, but it's still
>pretty none-linear by FPS standards.
>
>--
>Morgan.
>----
>* Damn, just put my Polos in the bin.
>
>Mail: Morgan.Sales@ntlworld.com
>Webpage: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/msales
>
>
>
Anonymous
January 16, 2005 9:59:29 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

JoeSmooth wrote:
> IMO, both HL2 and Far Cry are great games for different reasons.
>
> Bang for buck (literal purchase price and time developing it), I gotta give
> the nod to Far Cry. (I paid $40 Far Cry and $55 HL2 CD) FC is the underdog
> here, pretty much coming out of nowhere and kicking ass. In fact, HL2 would
> have had a much bigger impact on me had FC not stole it's thunder a bit by
> being released first.
>
> Non-linearism... without doubt... Far Cry.
>
> AI... again, Far Cry (though far from what I'd like to see... compared to
> HL2, it's siginficantly better).
>
> Replayablity (mostly due to the non-linearism and better AI), again goes to
> Far Cry.

I have to agree here. I liked HL2 a lot, but I'm not keen on playing it
through a second time. That's mainly because I reach some particular
point in the game, knowing what I have to pass through, and think
"That's going to be tedious." (I like that Valve provides game-loads at
certain points in the game, to enable those who've completed it a chance
to play through the "good parts.")

But with Farcry, there's more of a chance of a different experience. I
might find another route, or explore some area of the island that the
designers hadn't intended to be accessible.

> Vehicles? Well, HL2 had some cool ones, but SOOO linear. I gotta give this
> one to FC.

I gotta agree here. Vehicles are nice, but the ability to go where y'all
want is even nicer.

> Story? Ah, who knows? HL2 had all the elements but story was so
> disconnected it collapsed. FC's story efforts were weak and characters were
> undeveloped... they didn't really even try.

FC's story was pretty basic for a shooter. HL's story is certainly
better, and it has to reply on the NPC's for its effect. HL2 is clearly
the superior here.

> Realisitic environment. Loved creeping through the weeds and loved the
> paradise island theme, but gotta go to HL2. Sweet job on the little details
> of scenery and objects.

Not to mention atmosphere. HL2 captured a scary environment of a
depleted world, an oppressive government, and the impending doom of
humanity. Farcry didn't _try_ to do this, which is fine, but since HL2
tried something far more ambitious, and succeeded, I gotta gove HL2 the
nod here.

> Graphics.. game engine. HL2, 'course.
>
> Mods? Far Cry has a few good ones, but far less than I'd hoped. HL2...
> crossing fingers.

HL2 will have more mods, simply because more people have played it, and
more people are familiar with editing in its engine. FarCry has severe
potential here. (I've played with the level editor, and it is very, very
nice.)
Anonymous
January 16, 2005 9:59:30 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

> I have to agree here. I liked HL2 a lot, but I'm not keen on playing it
> through a second time. That's mainly because I reach some particular
> point in the game, knowing what I have to pass through, and think
> "That's going to be tedious." (I like that Valve provides game-loads at
> certain points in the game, to enable those who've completed it a chance
> to play through the "good parts.")
>
> But with Farcry, there's more of a chance of a different experience. I
> might find another route, or explore some area of the island that the
> designers hadn't intended to be accessible.

Or just find another way to approch the mercs. Vehicle, sniper, nads,
stealth, leapfrog over one camp and onto the next, lay low and try to get
the beasts to fight the mercs for you. Man, I really had a blast with all
the possibilities.

>
> > Vehicles? Well, HL2 had some cool ones, but SOOO linear. I gotta give
this
> > one to FC.
>
> I gotta agree here. Vehicles are nice, but the ability to go where y'all
> want is even nicer.
>
> > Story? Ah, who knows? HL2 had all the elements but story was so
> > disconnected it collapsed. FC's story efforts were weak and characters
were
> > undeveloped... they didn't really even try.
>
> FC's story was pretty basic for a shooter. HL's story is certainly
> better, and it has to reply on the NPC's for its effect. HL2 is clearly
> the superior here.

And FC totally lacked an game playable intro. After reading the reviews, I
really expected a HL-like intro where you are on the boat with
whats-her-name and you are taking her on her little cruise and then the
could have worked in an explosion or something to lead into the actual first
level of the game. Instead just a lousy cut scene. With HL2 all the
elements where there but the just didn't put it together cohesively, IMO.
But yes, what they did was superior but it fell short of what it could have
been.

>
> > Realisitic environment. Loved creeping through the weeds and loved the

> > paradise island theme, but gotta go to HL2. Sweet job on the little
details
> > of scenery and objects.
>
> Not to mention atmosphere. HL2 captured a scary environment of a
> depleted world, an oppressive government, and the impending doom of
> humanity.

True, but I guess I wasn't quite as wowed as you were. I was totally lovin'
it right up until after the interrogation. Still very cool game after that,
but from there on that atmosphere didn't hold me as well. Of cousre, there
just wasn't any of this in FC to even compare to.

> Farcry didn't _try_ to do this, which is fine, but since HL2
> tried something far more ambitious, and succeeded, I gotta gove HL2 the
> nod here.

I give them the nod for sure, but not as enthusiastically. Again, maybe I
expected too much. So much of the stuff in the demos was cut. (In an
older post I described a certain unfinished feel to the game).

>
> > Graphics.. game engine. HL2, 'course.
> >
> > Mods? Far Cry has a few good ones, but far less than I'd hoped. HL2...
> > crossing fingers.
>
> HL2 will have more mods, simply because more people have played it, and
> more people are familiar with editing in its engine. FarCry has severe
> potential here. (I've played with the level editor, and it is very, very
> nice.)

Well, I'd have agreed with you (about FC) a few months back. But plenty of
time has passed and there aren't as mand good/great mods as I would have
expected by now. I have enjoyed the few that I've played.
Anonymous
January 16, 2005 11:06:04 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Artistic value :

HL2 > Far Cry . Definitely. That reason alone is why I'll
be remembering HL2 in 10 years, and not Far Cry.

-Moa Dragon
January 17, 2005 12:57:43 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 16:48:29 -0500, "JoeSmooth" <f@ke.70053> wrote:

>Awe, you're enough of veteran gamer to know there's a lot more to it than
>that. GTA3 is the best non-linear game I've played. Far Cry is #2.

Any game that uses mid level save points is not non-linear. I agree
with GTA3/VC, but there are several other games far less linear than
FC, DE and OpFlash to name two.
--
Andrew, contact via interpleb.blogspot.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.
Anonymous
January 17, 2005 12:57:44 AM

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"Andrew" <spamtrap@localhost.> wrote in message
news:vkolu013tk4k9b93v9h55q1j6v3o1hrf1f@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 16:48:29 -0500, "JoeSmooth" <f@ke.70053> wrote:
>
> >Awe, you're enough of veteran gamer to know there's a lot more to it than
> >that. GTA3 is the best non-linear game I've played. Far Cry is #2.
>
> Any game that uses mid level save points is not non-linear. I agree
> with GTA3/VC, but there are several other games far less linear than
> FC, DE and OpFlash to name two.

Two reasons FC didn't use "save anytime" saves.

#1. They wanted to keep momentum going and were trying to save gamers from
themselves by not giving them the option to save every two steps. (Same
feature in Hitman2 for same reasons).

#2. CryTeck hadn't developed their engine and AI enough to be able to
handle "save anytime". If you've messed with saveanywhere hack you'll see
that vehicles don't stay in the same place and AI is reset and thrown off
with when saves happen outside save points.

I agree that FC SHOULD have had saveanywhere and it deserves to be knocked
for not having it.

I haven't played OPFlash. DE also was a great non-linear game, but it was
a little different genre too. Lots of RPG and non-violence elements.
Because FC was able to be non-linear in such a spacious open environment, I
still enjoyed their brand on non-linearism more, but I can totally see where
you or someone else might disagreee. I'd love to see a little more Splinter
Cell in Far Cry. Stealth just wasn't rewarded enough mostly because the AI
wasn't good enough to make it realistic.

> --
> Andrew, contact via interpleb.blogspot.com
> Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
> please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
> Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.
Anonymous
January 17, 2005 2:08:29 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

I really think this is a pointless thread as Far Cry just isn't even in
the same league as HL2 as much as you Fanboys would imagine it to be.
Anonymous
January 17, 2005 2:38:33 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 21:57:43 +0000, Andrew <spamtrap@localhost.> wrote:

>On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 16:48:29 -0500, "JoeSmooth" <f@ke.70053> wrote:
>
>>Awe, you're enough of veteran gamer to know there's a lot more to it than
>>that. GTA3 is the best non-linear game I've played. Far Cry is #2.
>
>Any game that uses mid level save points is not non-linear. I agree
>with GTA3/VC, but there are several other games far less linear than
>FC, DE and OpFlash to name two.

Actually, Operation Flashpoint has almost the linearity as Far Cry. Both
games require your do to objectives in a specific order, although OpFlash
did give much more room to manuver. It's only slightly less linear than
Far Cry. OpFlash uses mid-level saves usually when you come close to or
after completing an objective. (To be fair, the game allows the user to
save at any point in the mission.)

Other than that example, you are correct. Of course, even non-linear games
still have a feeling that a game has to be done in one specific way. (e.g.
DX:IW's early game tended to encourage some players to get as many credits
as possible. )
Anonymous
January 17, 2005 3:01:23 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

dude...that "opens" the door to the imagination....exploring and "happening"
on to other "undiscovered" parts....definitely adds to
playability....hmmm...sounds like someone just likes "linear" type games

<cr0n1k@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1105914503.208801.10220@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> Kroagnon wrote:
>
>> you can take a boat and literally go for miles and miles in the
> ocean.
>
> How exactly is that fun though?
>
January 17, 2005 10:46:54 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"JoeSmooth" wrote

> Awe, you're enough of veteran gamer to know there's a lot more to it than
> that. GTA3 is the best non-linear game I've played. Far Cry is #2.

Have you played 'Deus Ex'?
Anonymous
January 17, 2005 12:51:18 PM

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"Vince" <vmelia@nospamblueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:o 3KGd.163840$Z7.138268@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> "JoeSmooth" wrote
>
> > Awe, you're enough of veteran gamer to know there's a lot more to it
than
> > that. GTA3 is the best non-linear game I've played. Far Cry is #2.
>
> Have you played 'Deus Ex'?
>
>

Cut&paste from other reply:

I haven't played OPFlash. DE also was a great non-linear game, but it was
a little different genre too. Lots of RPG and non-violence elements.
Because FC was able to be non-linear in such a spacious open environment, I
still enjoyed their brand on non-linearism more, but I can totally see where
you or someone else might disagreee. I'd love to see a little more Splinter
Cell in Far Cry. Stealth just wasn't rewarded enough mostly because the AI
wasn't good enough to make it realistic.
Anonymous
January 17, 2005 12:59:05 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

<cr0n1k@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1105945709.500002.117490@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> I really think this is a pointless thread as Far Cry just isn't even in
> the same league as HL2 as much as you Fanboys would imagine it to be.
>

There are some good reasons why one could like HL2 over FC. However, you're
just offering conculsions with no explanation.
Anonymous
January 17, 2005 4:02:32 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Sun, 16 Jan 2005, JoeSmooth wrote:

> Monsters? Clearly HL2 had more and better variety.

I agree, but HL2 wins only barely. After all most of the time you are
fighting zombies and humanoid soldiers, with the occasional other alien
thrown in. No comparison to the original HL and its huge variety...

> Graphics... game engine. HL2, 'course.

I disagree. HL2 used a blown up Quake engine, as we all know now, with
great textures and details but nothing new on the lighting and shadow
side. FC provides the only alternative to Doom 3 here and I doubt that
even the Source engine is able to produce such large levels as in FC.

--
Werner Spahl (spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
"The meaning of my life is to make me crazy" Vorlonships
Anonymous
January 17, 2005 4:02:33 PM

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"Werner Spahl" <spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de> wrote in message
news:p ine.LNX.4.58.0501171256400.17359@cicum1.cup.uni-muenchen.de...
> On Sun, 16 Jan 2005, JoeSmooth wrote:
>
> > Monsters? Clearly HL2 had more and better variety.
>
> I agree, but HL2 wins only barely. After all most of the time you are
> fighting zombies and humanoid soldiers, with the occasional other alien
> thrown in. No comparison to the original HL and its huge variety...

HL2 had the stranglers that dangled and pulled you up to eat you. That's
pretty cool. The antlions and the odor balls were pretty cool. The
stryders, although overhyped and limited were interesting too. But yeah,
come to think of it, HL1 had more variety and the same monsters were at
least new then. I think Valve had higher ambitions, then stepped back and
decided instead to do a very good polish on what they did have to work with.

>
> > Graphics... game engine. HL2, 'course.
>
> I disagree. HL2 used a blown up Quake engine, as we all know now, with
> great textures and details but nothing new on the lighting and shadow
> side. FC provides the only alternative to Doom 3 here and I doubt that
> even the Source engine is able to produce such large levels as in FC.

Good points.

>
> --
> Werner Spahl (spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
> "The meaning of my life is to make me crazy" Vorlonships
Anonymous
January 17, 2005 4:09:14 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Mon, 16 Jan 2005 cr0n1k@hotmail.com wrote:

> I really think this is a pointless thread as Far Cry just isn't even in
> the same league as HL2 as much as you Fanboys would imagine it to be.

You mean Far Cry is much better regardless of what the Valve Fanboys
believe? Interesting point of view, but I will accept it ;) ...

--
Werner Spahl (spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
"The meaning of my life is to make me crazy" Vorlonships
Anonymous
January 17, 2005 4:18:18 PM

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JoeSmooth wrote:
> <cr0n1k@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1105945709.500002.117490@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > I really think this is a pointless thread as Far Cry just isn't
even in
> > the same league as HL2 as much as you Fanboys would imagine it to
be.
> >
>
> There are some good reasons why one could like HL2 over FC. However,
you're
> just offering conculsions with no explanation.

I could easily point out the vast number of GOTY awards HL2 has won
over your beloved Far Cry but you would probably come back with the
typical, pathetic fanboy excuse that awards are pointless and mean
nothing.
Anonymous
January 17, 2005 6:44:40 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

JoeSmooth wrote:
> <cr0n1k@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1105996698.257673.323550@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > JoeSmooth wrote:
> > > <cr0n1k@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:1105945709.500002.117490@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > > > I really think this is a pointless thread as Far Cry just isn't
> > even in
> > > > the same league as HL2 as much as you Fanboys would imagine it
to
> > be.
> > > >
> > >
> > > There are some good reasons why one could like HL2 over FC.
However,
> > you're
> > > just offering conculsions with no explanation.
> >
> > I could easily point out the vast number of GOTY awards HL2 has won
> > over your beloved Far Cry but you would probably come back with the
> > typical, pathetic fanboy excuse that awards are pointless and mean
> > nothing.
>
>
> Or, you could actually enter into a discussion about which aspects of
HL2
> you liked better than FC and why. You don't have to do so, but
you're
> invited to, if you like.
>
> I do think awards mean something (with a big grain of salt) and I
think HL2
> was a great game. But we here in this newsgroup are often not just
casual
> gamers. We tend to be a little more hardcore and a little more
critical.
> For the record, I'm a fan of both FC and HL2, but I don't think
either is a
> flawless masterpiece.

I agree neither are flawless I just think in terms of delivering a
fantastic gaming 'experience' HL2 far exceeded Far Cry.
Far Cry just felt much too 'gamey' with its cliched B movie plot.
Anonymous
January 17, 2005 7:48:57 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005, JoeSmooth wrote:

"Werner Spahl" <spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de> wrote in message
> >
> > I agree, but HL2 wins only barely. After all most of the time you are
> > fighting zombies and humanoid soldiers, with the occasional other alien
> > thrown in. No comparison to the original HL and its huge variety...
>
> HL2 had the stranglers that dangled and pulled you up to eat you. That's

These were already present in HL1 and exactly the kind of original enemies
missing in HL2. Just think of all the different attacks of the HL1 aliens
from sound waves over electro shocks to homing mini-missiles. In HL2 it's
a) coming straight for you Headcrabs, Manhacks, Zombies, Antlions, ... or
b) bullet ammo fired from humanoids or driving/flying/stalking vehicles.

> least new then. I think Valve had higher ambitions, then stepped back and
> decided instead to do a very good polish on what they did have to work with.

In an interview someone from Valve claimed that they had planned 30 more
enemies. I think this is bullshit, they didn't even include all of the HL1
aliens and the Vortigaunts look much worse than in HL1 as well! There are
much cooler aliens unused in the HL1 pak than most of the stuff in HL2!

Somehow I suspect that Mike Harrington was the artistic head behind HL1
and Gabe Newell only the financial director. After Harrington left Valve
the whole gameplay division of Valve went downhill resulting in the huge
delay as well, while Newell was busy designing Steam for maximal profit.

P.S.: The HL1 source port is a joke too, they didn't even include the
models from the high definition pack or made normal objects like chairs
usable with physics. Besides some new reflections it looks all the same,
another evidence that the Source engine is limited and outdated IMHO.

--
Werner Spahl (spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
"The meaning of my life is to make me crazy" Vorlonships
Anonymous
January 17, 2005 8:05:03 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

<cr0n1k@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1105996698.257673.323550@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>
> JoeSmooth wrote:
> > <cr0n1k@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:1105945709.500002.117490@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > > I really think this is a pointless thread as Far Cry just isn't
> even in
> > > the same league as HL2 as much as you Fanboys would imagine it to
> be.
> > >
> >
> > There are some good reasons why one could like HL2 over FC. However,
> you're
> > just offering conculsions with no explanation.
>
> I could easily point out the vast number of GOTY awards HL2 has won
> over your beloved Far Cry but you would probably come back with the
> typical, pathetic fanboy excuse that awards are pointless and mean
> nothing.


Or, you could actually enter into a discussion about which aspects of HL2
you liked better than FC and why. You don't have to do so, but you're
invited to, if you like.

I do think awards mean something (with a big grain of salt) and I think HL2
was a great game. But we here in this newsgroup are often not just casual
gamers. We tend to be a little more hardcore and a little more critical.
For the record, I'm a fan of both FC and HL2, but I don't think either is a
flawless masterpiece.


>
Anonymous
January 17, 2005 11:26:00 PM

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<cr0n1k@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1106005480.301773.235430@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> I agree neither are flawless I just think in terms of delivering a
> fantastic gaming 'experience' HL2 far exceeded Far Cry.
> Far Cry just felt much too 'gamey' with its cliched B movie plot.

I'll give you that. FC certainly had a (very thin) "B" movie plot and in
many ways it was a "B" game when compared to the superpowered HL2 (a big
release hollywood movie, to continue the metaphor).



>
January 18, 2005 1:46:55 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

are peoples brains not big enough to like two things at once?

"JoeSmooth" <f@ke.70053> wrote in message
news:41ea0622$0$63177$4d5ecec7@reader.city-net.com...
> IMO, both HL2 and Far Cry are great games for different reasons.
>
> Bang for buck (literal purchase price and time developing it), I gotta
> give
> the nod to Far Cry. (I paid $40 Far Cry and $55 HL2 CD) FC is the
> underdog
> here, pretty much coming out of nowhere and kicking ass. In fact, HL2
> would
> have had a much bigger impact on me had FC not stole it's thunder a bit by
> being released first.
>
> Non-linearism... without doubt... Far Cry.
>
> AI... again, Far Cry (though far from what I'd like to see... compared to
> HL2, it's siginficantly better).
>
> Replayablity (mostly due to the non-linearism and better AI), again goes
> to
> Far Cry.
>
> Original game play elements. A lean to HL2. How cool was the grav gun,
> impaling people, cutting them in half? Lots of fun with physics. For Far
> Cry you've got the helio reinforcements (often linked to the alarm) and
> great vehicles and the relatively untouched paradise island theme.
>
> Vehicles? Well, HL2 had some cool ones, but SOOO linear. I gotta give
> this
> one to FC.
>
> Story? Ah, who knows? HL2 had all the elements but story was so
> disconnected it collapsed. FC's story efforts were weak and characters
> were
> undeveloped... they didn't really even try.
>
> Realisitic environment. Loved creeping through the weeds and loved the
> paradise island theme, but gotta go to HL2. Sweet job on the little
> details
> of scenery and objects.
>
> Monsters? Clearly HL2 had more and better variety.
>
> Variety of environment... HL2.
>
> Graphics.. game engine. HL2, 'course.
>
> Mods? Far Cry has a few good ones, but far less than I'd hoped. HL2...
> crossing fingers.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Anonymous
January 18, 2005 10:34:23 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 21:57:43 +0000, Andrew <spamtrap@localhost.>
wrote:

>On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 16:48:29 -0500, "JoeSmooth" <f@ke.70053> wrote:
>
>>Awe, you're enough of veteran gamer to know there's a lot more to it than
>>that. GTA3 is the best non-linear game I've played. Far Cry is #2.
>
>Any game that uses mid level save points is not non-linear. I agree

When does Andrew learn that everything is not black and white? FarCry
has LESS linear gameplay than e.g. HL2 or Doom 3. Just because you can
name a few games which are even less linear than FarCry does not make
FarCry linear (as linear as HL2 or Doom3).

"Gee, Empire State Building is not big, because the moon is even
bigger!" (Andrew & walter mitty logic)

>with GTA3/VC, but there are several other games far less linear than
>FC, DE and OpFlash to name two.
Anonymous
January 18, 2005 10:48:59 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 12:52:26 +0100, Walter Mitty
<mitticus@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>> Non-linearism... without doubt... Far Cry.
>>
>
>The most overhyped feature of FC, IMO.
>
>Being able to sneak through a different bush from a different angle to
>complete the same task is hardly non linear.

Everyone who has played FarCry knows there's more to it than that. For
example one of the earlier levels where you come up to the hang-glider
in the beginning of the level, you have several options to proceed,
e.g.:

1. Run to the hang-glider and fly with it to the opposite isle nearby,
completely avoiding the enemy soldiers and the enemy gun boat at the
end of the level.

2. Shoot the enemies at the start of the level and walk down the path
to the beach, fighting the enemy gunboat (and the chopper).

3. Forget the enemy soldiers and the hang-glider in the beginning, and
simply jump from the cliff (where the hang-glider is) to the water
down below, swim to the beach and shoot the two enemies using the
gunboat, capture the gunboat and use it to destroy the enemy chopper.

That's already much more different gameplay tactics than mitty's
alleged "just sneaking to the same spot from a different angle".

Another good example would be the level where you destroy the enemy
radio stations, there are many different ways how you can approach
your objective. For example near the last of those stations, there are
a couple of sniping towers you need to get rid of. Sometimes I sneaked
towards them and sniped the snipers, sometimes I captured an enemy
gunboat, went around the island with it and tried to blow up the two
sniper towers from far away from the sea with the rocket launcher on
that gunboat, etc.
Anonymous
January 19, 2005 5:00:24 PM

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<cr0n1k@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1105914503.208801.10220@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> Kroagnon wrote:
>
> > you can take a boat and literally go for miles and miles in the
> ocean.
>
> How exactly is that fun though?

How about immersion and realism? That you're really on an island group in
the middle of the ocean. Or in an enclosed corridor ala HL2 and Doom3 that
only lets you go as far as the map design / engine limitation.
!