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Will You Put Up With Marine SharpShooter If It Is Released..

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January 24, 2005 8:06:43 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

This post is to praise the tolerance level of all Valve's games players.

My case:

After experiencing repeatedly stuttering and crashes of HL2 and CS:S
after 10 minutes of play.

After being unable to play CS:S offline with bots due to crash to
desktop when tried to create server offline mode.

After numerous failed attempt to reinstall the back up feature that did
not work...

After many new problems caused by the numerous patches that are supposed
to fix the problems.

I thought I've had it, I decided not to touch HL2 and CS:S for the
amount of time of at least 6 months and then come back when all the
problems will be hopefully ironed out.

I decided not to care anymore...decided to think my $AUD 80 is gone.

I decided to invest my time on other more stable games which I just
newly purchased: Vampire the M Bloodlines, Rome: Total War, The Sims2,
Far Cry....games which run every time and patches indeeds fixed things.

After.... 1 day of fulfilling that promise to myself....I found myself
logged online to play CS:S with bots and tried to play HL2 for 10
minutes each time after repeatedly rebooting the pc...I still find the
so much enjoyment to play Valve's games.

There is something so addictive, so dinstinctive about Valve's excellent
games that even the many technical obstacles and annoyances and many
inconveniences caused by STEAM could not prevent the determination of
mass of gamers try to play it no matter what.

It is defintely not a masochist gaming experience, it's the passion.

I wonder what happened if games like "Marine: Sharpshooter" or
"King of Dragon Pass" or "RobotCop" released through STEAM with
equivalent amount of technical problems, annoyances and inconvenience.

I guess nobody cares to complain, they just stop playing and go on with
life being happy and done with it.

The numbers of complaints prove that people love Valve games to death
and eager to play them....trying to tweak, fix, reinstall. format,
spending more time on forums, newsgroups trying to find the solution
than to play the games themselves on their own...do whatever it takes to
play Valve's games.

The amount of psychological stress, paranoia, mental anguish,
frustration, anger, feel of unjust inflicted upon could not prevent fans
from keeping loving Valve's games.

I can say that the tolerance factor of Valve's game players is
unprecendented.

After so many pains and inconveniences inflicted to them, they will
still eager to play Valve's games no matter what...They still will love
Valve....

I wish Valve appreciates that fact.

(In fact, I believe that Valve is AWARE of that level of tolerance and
loyalty of their fans when they decided to implement STEAM).
Anonymous
January 24, 2005 8:06:44 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Did you ever stop to think that perhaps the majority of gamers have no
problem with HL2 or steam at all and thoroughly enjoyed the magnificent
gaming experience it provides.

And perhaps this small minority that claim to have problems are just
habitual moaners who are never satisfied with anything.
January 24, 2005 8:06:44 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 17:06:43 +1100, dan <nemo@nowhere.com> wrote:

>After so many pains and inconveniences inflicted to them, they will
>still eager to play Valve's games no matter what...They still will love
>Valve....

Personally I haven't a problem with Steam or any of the games I got
with the Silver package aside from the (now largely fixed) stutter
problem with HL2 which wasn't bad enough to stop me playing the game
and enjoying it.
--
Andrew, contact via interpleb.blogspot.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.
Related resources
Anonymous
January 24, 2005 8:06:44 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Mon, 24 Jan 2005, dan wrote:

<snip touching post of a confessed steam lover>

> After so many pains and inconveniences inflicted to them, they will
> still eager to play Valve's games no matter what...They still will love
> Valve....

i usually regard post by steam lovers like yourself as trash and worthless
propaganda but yours is different... yours is almost like a "confession of
a steam lover"... like a confession of a drug addict acknowledging his
disease... very touching and moving...

> I wish Valve appreciates that fact.

oh yes they appreciate the fact you give them MONEY!

> (In fact, I believe that Valve is AWARE of that level of tolerance and
> loyalty of their fans when they decided to implement STEAM).

valve is not only AWARE but its using it!
valve is using what you call tolerance to force steam!
its like a drug dealer using drug addiction on a drug addict

your post is a landmark for these group
thank you for writing
for the first time a steam addict confessed his sickening dependency
i really hope this will make others wake up and look for help, cause
help is available and its worth trying

i was really impressed with what you wrote
your post touched me and i'm sure many others...
i feel sorry for you
hope you'll cure yourself and have a speedy recovery
don't forget help is available!
and there is life after steam and valve... a beautiful life steam-free!

--
post made in a steam-free computer
i said "NO" to valve and steam

please sign petition "Say NO! to Steam!" available at:
http://www.petitiononline.com/nosteam/petition.html
Anonymous
January 24, 2005 8:06:44 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

dan wrote:

> This post is to praise the tolerance level of all Valve's games
> players.
>
> My case:
>
> After experiencing repeatedly stuttering and crashes of HL2 and CS:S
> after 10 minutes of play.
>
> After being unable to play CS:S offline with bots due to crash to
> desktop when tried to create server offline mode.
>
> After numerous failed attempt to reinstall the back up feature that
> did not work...
>
> After many new problems caused by the numerous patches that are
> supposed to fix the problems.

Why are the above anything to do with Steam? They're a problem with the
Source engine or the particular games. Steam is just a distribution
technology, pros and cons 'discussed' elsewhere on this NG.


> I wonder what happened if games like "Marine: Sharpshooter" or
> "King of Dragon Pass" or "RobotCop" released through STEAM with
> equivalent amount of technical problems, annoyances and
> inconvenience.

They would all still be utter bollocks irrespective of the
distribution.


--
|
| The New World Order ... Keep You Simple, Stupid.
|
Anonymous
January 24, 2005 8:06:44 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

dan wrote:

> This post is to praise the tolerance level of all Valve's games
> players.
>
> My case:
>
> After experiencing repeatedly stuttering and crashes of HL2 and CS:S
> after 10 minutes of play.
>
> After being unable to play CS:S offline with bots due to crash to
> desktop when tried to create server offline mode.
>
> After numerous failed attempt to reinstall the back up feature that
> did not work...
>
> After many new problems caused by the numerous patches that are
> supposed to fix the problems.

Why are the above anything to do with Steam? They're a problem with the
Source engine or the particular games. Steam is just a distribution
technology, pros and cons 'discussed' elsewhere on this NG.


> I wonder what happened if games like "Marine: Sharpshooter" or
> "King of Dragon Pass" or "RobotCop" released through STEAM with
> equivalent amount of technical problems, annoyances and
> inconvenience.

They would all still be utter bollocks irrespective of the
distribution.


--
|
| The New World Order ... Keep You Simple, Stupid.
|
January 24, 2005 8:06:45 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Andrew wrote:

> On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 17:06:43 +1100, dan <nemo@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>
>>After so many pains and inconveniences inflicted to them, they will
>>still eager to play Valve's games no matter what...They still will love
>>Valve....
>
>
> Personally I haven't a problem with Steam or any of the games I got
> with the Silver package aside from the (now largely fixed) stutter
> problem with HL2 which wasn't bad enough to stop me playing the game
> and enjoying it.

The Parkinson's disease has hit a few recent titles. I've had this
problem with a couple of first-person-shooters, and the only thing I
could think of was the weird sound desynchronation. "Far Cry" had this
and it only got under control with different sound drivers instead of
installing graphics card drivers. Very annoying.
Anonymous
January 24, 2005 8:06:45 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

<cr0n1k@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1106548200.920987.140930@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Did you ever stop to think that perhaps the majority of gamers have no
> problem with HL2 or steam at all and thoroughly enjoyed the magnificent
> gaming experience it provides.
>
> And perhaps this small minority that claim to have problems are just
> habitual moaners who are never satisfied with anything.

In terms of this group, it seems to me that the majority of people who have
spoken about steam have spoken out against it (to different degrees). The
small minority seems to me to be those who actually advocate it.

I guess you could assume that the people who are silent are in favor of it,
but it's just as likely they are against it, and most likeliest of all they
are indifference.

>
Anonymous
January 24, 2005 8:17:04 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

JoeSmooth wrote:
> <cr0n1k@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1106548200.920987.140930@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
>>Did you ever stop to think that perhaps the majority of gamers have no
>>problem with HL2 or steam at all and thoroughly enjoyed the magnificent
>>gaming experience it provides.
>>
>>And perhaps this small minority that claim to have problems are just
>>habitual moaners who are never satisfied with anything.
>
>
> In terms of this group, it seems to me that the majority of people who have
> spoken about steam have spoken out against it (to different degrees). The
> small minority seems to me to be those who actually advocate it.
>

Total rubbish Joe. Those that don't speak are almost certainly having no
issues. Its the same old whingers time & time again.
Anonymous
January 24, 2005 8:17:05 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Walter Mitty" <mitticus@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ct371v$mv6$02$1@news.t-online.com...
> JoeSmooth wrote:
> > <cr0n1k@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:1106548200.920987.140930@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> >
> >>Did you ever stop to think that perhaps the majority of gamers have no
> >>problem with HL2 or steam at all and thoroughly enjoyed the magnificent
> >>gaming experience it provides.
> >>
> >>And perhaps this small minority that claim to have problems are just
> >>habitual moaners who are never satisfied with anything.
> >
> >
> > In terms of this group, it seems to me that the majority of people who
have
> > spoken about steam have spoken out against it (to different degrees).
The
> > small minority seems to me to be those who actually advocate it.
> >
>
> Total rubbish Joe. Those that don't speak are almost certainly having no
> issues. Its the same old whingers time & time again.

It's not less true to say it's the same old defenders time & time again.

By my count, the number and variety of people (in this group) who have
complained about Steam outnumber those who support it. I'm basing that on
those who have actually voiced an opinion one way or the other. Sometimes
these people just post once to bitch about it, then fade back into
cyberspace. More than once I've heard someone say those who take a negative
view are in the minority, but by observation, I don't see this to be the
case. How representative is this of all Steam/HL2 users? Beats me. People
tend to voice complaints more than praise and I assume that gamers in this
group would tend to be more up on the technology and more critical of games
and their delievery systems than most, so therefore you might here more
complaining here than from a causal gamer who doesn't think twice about
steam or what precedents it may or may not be setting.

I'm not sure what you mean by "no issues", but if you mean that they had no
problem utilizing steam then I agree with you. Most people (who didn't buy
it the first day) probably didn't have problems using it. If you mean that
"those that don't speak" have no complaints about steam (even when it's
working fine), then I think that's just specualtion on your part. I'd
hypothesize that most people resent the extra step involved in online
verification for SP play and those with 56k or no modem connection at all
are almost certainly likely to feel put out a bit relative to pre-steam
style installs. Maybe "most people" think there are pros that make up for
the cons. I donno. I'm just speculating for those who haven't spoken up.
Anonymous
January 24, 2005 9:00:33 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 11:28:07 GMT, "One Punch Mickey"
<fantantiddlyspan@hotmail.com> wrote:

>dan wrote:
>
>> This post is to praise the tolerance level of all Valve's games
>> players.
>>
>> My case:
>>
>> After experiencing repeatedly stuttering and crashes of HL2 and CS:S
>> after 10 minutes of play.
>>
>> After being unable to play CS:S offline with bots due to crash to
>> desktop when tried to create server offline mode.
>>
>> After numerous failed attempt to reinstall the back up feature that
>> did not work...
>>
>> After many new problems caused by the numerous patches that are
>> supposed to fix the problems.
>
>Why are the above anything to do with Steam? They're a problem with the
>Source engine or the particular games. Steam is just a distribution
>technology, pros and cons 'discussed' elsewhere on this NG.
>
>
>> I wonder what happened if games like "Marine: Sharpshooter" or
>> "King of Dragon Pass" or "RobotCop" released through STEAM with
>> equivalent amount of technical problems, annoyances and
>> inconvenience.
>
>They would all still be utter bollocks irrespective of the
>distribution.
>
>
>--
>|
>| The New World Order ... Keep You Simple, Stupid.
>|

Too much Guinness... too many message copies ??

John Lewis
Anonymous
January 24, 2005 9:03:34 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 11:44:37 -0500, "JoeSmooth" <f@ke.70053> wrote:

>
>"Walter Mitty" <mitticus@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:ct371v$mv6$02$1@news.t-online.com...
>> JoeSmooth wrote:
>> > <cr0n1k@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> > news:1106548200.920987.140930@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>> >
>> >>Did you ever stop to think that perhaps the majority of gamers have no
>> >>problem with HL2 or steam at all and thoroughly enjoyed the magnificent
>> >>gaming experience it provides.
>> >>
>> >>And perhaps this small minority that claim to have problems are just
>> >>habitual moaners who are never satisfied with anything.
>> >
>> >
>> > In terms of this group, it seems to me that the majority of people who
>have
>> > spoken about steam have spoken out against it (to different degrees).
>The
>> > small minority seems to me to be those who actually advocate it.
>> >
>>
>> Total rubbish Joe. Those that don't speak are almost certainly having no
>> issues. Its the same old whingers time & time again.
>
>It's not less true to say it's the same old defenders time & time again.
>
>By my count, the number and variety of people (in this group) who have
>complained about Steam outnumber those who support it. I'm basing that on
>those who have actually voiced an opinion one way or the other. Sometimes
>these people just post once to bitch about it, then fade back into
>cyberspace. More than once I've heard someone say those who take a negative
>view are in the minority, but by observation, I don't see this to be the
>case. How representative is this of all Steam/HL2 users? Beats me. People
>tend to voice complaints more than praise and I assume that gamers in this
>group would tend to be more up on the technology and more critical of games
>and their delievery systems than most, so therefore you might here more
>complaining here than from a causal gamer who doesn't think twice about
>steam or what precedents it may or may not be setting.
>
>I'm not sure what you mean by "no issues", but if you mean that they had no
>problem utilizing steam then I agree with you. Most people (who didn't buy
>it the first day) probably didn't have problems using it. If you mean that
>"those that don't speak" have no complaints about steam (even when it's
>working fine), then I think that's just specualtion on your part. I'd
>hypothesize that most people resent the extra step involved in online
>verification for SP play and those with 56k or no modem connection at all
>are almost certainly likely to feel put out a bit relative to pre-steam
>style installs. Maybe "most people" think there are pros that make up for
>the cons. I donno. I'm just speculating for those who haven't spoken up.
>
>
>
Well, I for one haven't had any problems with Steam. I may be in the
minority but it worked fine for me.

Allan
January 24, 2005 9:35:26 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

JoeSmooth wrote:

I'm just speculating for those who haven't spoken up.
>

>sticks hand up<

Hi Joe, no probs with Steam here (validated first day from UK), enjoyed
the game (twice) and fairly indifferent to the arguments. Moved on and
playing other stuff.


--
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and
conscientious stupidity."

Martin Luther King, Jr.
Anonymous
January 24, 2005 9:35:27 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Shawk" <shawk@clara.co.uk.3guesses> wrote in message
news:1106591403.92840.0@despina.uk.clara.net...
> JoeSmooth wrote:
>
> I'm just speculating for those who haven't spoken up.
> >
>
> >sticks hand up<
>
> Hi Joe, no probs with Steam here (validated first day from UK), enjoyed
> the game (twice) and fairly indifferent to the arguments. Moved on and
> playing other stuff.

If I had to guess, I'd say your "fairly indifferent" view is probably the
most common view and it probably most represents those who haven't voiced an
opinion. Elsewhere you stated you'd have prefered to have had the choice to
use or not use steam. That's actually one of the best ideas yet for
solving the arugements and it's certainly DOable by valve/steam if they want
to go that route.



>
>
> --
> "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and
> conscientious stupidity."
>
> Martin Luther King, Jr.
January 24, 2005 10:06:28 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

JoeSmooth wrote:
> "Shawk" <shawk@clara.co.uk.3guesses> wrote in message
> news:1106591403.92840.0@despina.uk.clara.net...
>
>>JoeSmooth wrote:
>>
>>I'm just speculating for those who haven't spoken up.
>>
>> >sticks hand up<
>>
>>Hi Joe, no probs with Steam here (validated first day from UK), enjoyed
>>the game (twice) and fairly indifferent to the arguments. Moved on and
>>playing other stuff.
>
>
> If I had to guess, I'd say your "fairly indifferent" view is probably the
> most common view and it probably most represents those who haven't voiced an
> opinion. Elsewhere you stated you'd have prefered to have had the choice to
> use or not use steam. That's actually one of the best ideas yet for
> solving the arugements and it's certainly DOable by valve/steam if they want
> to go that route.
>
>

Yeah - choice is always a good thing. Biggest issue with most seems to
boil down to the fact that the choice has been taken away.

--
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and
conscientious stupidity."

Martin Luther King, Jr.
Anonymous
January 25, 2005 5:31:49 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

One Punch Mickey wrote:
> If they had even just provided activation by phone a lot of the bad
> feeling towards Steam would have gone away.
>

Totally agree. I found the HL2 install (retail) frustrating because I
was expecting to play it straight out of the box and instead had to
install Steam first, then wait for it to update, then wait for it to
validate. It all worked OK, but my expectation had been different, so
Steam seemed like a pain in the arse at the time.

Yesterday I downloaded the SDK. Again, I thought I'd done it and then
found I had to wait another hour for it to really download.

My problem was not a technical one (I haven't even had the stuttering
in-game), just one of my expectations not matching the reality. Valve
would have done better to have included a guide explaining what would
happen when you installed HL2 retail (it wasn't intuitive) and either
providing phone authentication, or making the need for online
authentication more obvious on the box.

Note that I'm talking about the retail box here, which is where almost
all the complaints are coming from.

I also agree with one of the other comments, that it is human nature to
complain rather than praise. But also, on forums such as these, people
tend to post about problems because they want answers. If Steam+HL2
installs works for you, why would you want to post about that? So I
think the "silent majority" are those for whom it worked (immediately
or eventually) and who are quite happy with that and have no desire to
get into flame wars about how ugly Valve is.
January 25, 2005 8:29:12 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

I still believe one year from now, STEAM technical problems will hopefully
straightened out and it would be invisible to users while still functioning
what it is doing now effectively.
Fingers crossed :) 

difool wrote:

> On Mon, 24 Jan 2005, dan wrote:
>
> <snip touching post of a confessed steam lover>
>
> > After so many pains and inconveniences inflicted to them, they will
> > still eager to play Valve's games no matter what...They still will love
> > Valve....
>
> i usually regard post by steam lovers like yourself as trash and worthless
> propaganda but yours is different... yours is almost like a "confession of
> a steam lover"... like a confession of a drug addict acknowledging his
> disease... very touching and moving...
>
> > I wish Valve appreciates that fact.
>
> oh yes they appreciate the fact you give them MONEY!
>
> > (In fact, I believe that Valve is AWARE of that level of tolerance and
> > loyalty of their fans when they decided to implement STEAM).
>
> valve is not only AWARE but its using it!
> valve is using what you call tolerance to force steam!
> its like a drug dealer using drug addiction on a drug addict
>
> your post is a landmark for these group
> thank you for writing
> for the first time a steam addict confessed his sickening dependency
> i really hope this will make others wake up and look for help, cause
> help is available and its worth trying
>
> i was really impressed with what you wrote
> your post touched me and i'm sure many others...
> i feel sorry for you
> hope you'll cure yourself and have a speedy recovery
> don't forget help is available!
> and there is life after steam and valve... a beautiful life steam-free!
>
> --
> post made in a steam-free computer
> i said "NO" to valve and steam
>
> please sign petition "Say NO! to Steam!" available at:
> http://www.petitiononline.com/nosteam/petition.html
Anonymous
January 25, 2005 8:29:13 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

dan wrote:
> I still believe one year from now, STEAM technical problems will hopefully
> straightened out and it would be invisible to users while still functioning
> what it is doing now effectively.
> Fingers crossed :) 
>

What technical problems are you having? Maybe I can help? I have had no,
zero, nadda, technical problems. Valve have addressed some interface
issues but, speaking personally, I have had no issues : interestingly
enough, most people who have proclaimed technical issues are also very
vocal on the "what it might do" issues (spyware, using 24k of ram,
eating clock cycles, disclosing their private porn stash to Valve etc).
I wonder if these "issues" might be related? ...
Anonymous
January 25, 2005 8:29:14 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Walter Mitty" <mitticus@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ct4a5q$6in$05$2@news.t-online.com...
> dan wrote:
> > I still believe one year from now, STEAM technical problems will
hopefully
> > straightened out and it would be invisible to users while still
functioning
> > what it is doing now effectively.
> > Fingers crossed :) 
> >
>
> What technical problems are you having? Maybe I can help? I have had no,
> zero, nadda, technical problems. Valve have addressed some interface
> issues but, speaking personally, I have had no issues : interestingly
> enough, most people who have proclaimed technical issues are also very
> vocal on the "what it might do" issues (spyware, using 24k of ram,
> eating clock cycles, disclosing their private porn stash to Valve etc).
> I wonder if these "issues" might be related? ...

I don't think Steam has been particualarly buggy. I had some problems on
release day one, but that's to be expected. (I've only used it in offline
mode since). Others have had issues too, but there's a whole school of
people (to which I belong) that just don't like it for the unneccesary
hassle it causes (especailly to 56Kers and SP players), for the invasion of
privacy, for the problem it creates in reselling games and likewise limiting
the ability to find steam titles in the USED bin, and for the door it opens
to more marketing and advertising to gamers (to name a few). Any techincal
issues with Steam can and probably will eventually be worked out, but a
steam that works 100% as designed is still rejected by many not because they
are against the convience of direct downloading for broadband... not because
they can't see ANY merit in it.... but because of all the other bullshit
that Steam CHOSE to make part of the package.
Anonymous
January 25, 2005 11:23:25 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 10:31:08 GMT, "One Punch Mickey"
<fantantiddlyspan@hotmail.com> wrote:

>> I wonder what happened if games like "Marine: Sharpshooter" or
>> "King of Dragon Pass" or "RobotCop" released through STEAM with
>> equivalent amount of technical problems, annoyances and
>> inconvenience.
>
>They would all still be utter bollocks irrespective of the
>distribution.

King of Dragon Pass, one of the most original and enjoyable strategy
games of recent years, is "utter bollocks"? I bet you don't even know
what game it is. Right, go check it online. It may be a niche game,
but it is a great game nonetheless.

http://www.gamerankings.com/itemrankings/launchreview.a...
Anonymous
January 25, 2005 11:54:18 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

riku wrote:

> King of Dragon Pass, one of the most original and enjoyable strategy
> games of recent years, is "utter bollocks"? I bet you don't even know
> what game it is. Right, go check it online. It may be a niche game,
> but it is a great game nonetheless.

You're right, I should have left that one out as I have no direct
experience of it. The other two are undoubtedly mingers though.




--
|
| The New World Order ... Keep You Simple, Stupid.
|
Anonymous
January 25, 2005 12:23:50 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Shawk wrote:


> Yeah - choice is always a good thing. Biggest issue with most seems
> to boil down to the fact that the choice has been taken away.

If they had even just provided activation by phone a lot of the bad
feeling towards Steam would have gone away.

--
|
| The New World Order ... Keep You Simple, Stupid.
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Anonymous
January 25, 2005 1:10:22 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 18:03:34 -0600, Allan Parent
<allanp@nospamforme123.charter.net> wrote:

>Well, I for one haven't had any problems with Steam. I may be in the
>minority but it worked fine for me.
>
It works (more or less) fine for me but I still have complaints about
Steam. The fact that it works or not isn't really the issue for me and
many others.
>Allan
Anonymous
January 25, 2005 1:13:41 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

> My problem was not a technical one (I haven't even had the stuttering
> in-game), just one of my expectations not matching the reality. Valve
> would have done better to have included a guide explaining what would
> happen when you installed HL2 retail (it wasn't intuitive) and either
> providing phone authentication, or making the need for online
> authentication more obvious on the box.

Good point. They should have eaten the extra expense of a second flimsy
leaflet to tell the customer what steam was, how it worked, what the
benefits were, and such and such.

> Note that I'm talking about the retail box here, which is where almost
> all the complaints are coming from.

I assume you're right. Anyone know what % of HL2 sales came from retail box
as opposed to download? (My GUESS is that the majority of sales came from
retail box) Anyone know what % of HL2 users use the game ONLY for SP play?
(I assume steam can and does track such data)

>
> I also agree with one of the other comments, that it is human nature to
> complain rather than praise. But also, on forums such as these, people
> tend to post about problems because they want answers. If Steam+HL2
> installs works for you, why would you want to post about that?

True again, but I'll qualify that by saying there are many who reject steam
simply on WHAT It does, irregardless of how smoothly it does it.

> So I
> think the "silent majority" are those for whom it worked (immediately
> or eventually) and who are quite happy with that and have no desire to


Well, the largest majority by far doesn't come to our humble little group so
we'll never know. :(  On that note, if you are primarily a SP player (as
opposed to MP) or if you are someone who isn't a regular Internet user, then
you are in the group most likely to feel disgruntled by having to deal with
Steam. That same group is also much less likely to explore newsgroups or
even know what they are. By far, direct game download is Steam's biggest
advantage over the status quo. So, it's no wonder that those with broadband
connection are the ones most likely to favor steam.

> get into flame wars about how ugly Valve is.

Did you have to bait him? :) 
January 25, 2005 5:31:54 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

STEAM in the background and caused severe memory leak and undesirable effect of
STEAM on the stability of source Games and utilities. (Source SDK Valve hammer
editor is the proof for that).
When I chose offline mode (option not update any game, disconnect my network,
press cancel while STEAM loads), if I play a particular game offline and it
crashes (it happens very often, next time I play it again , i get "This
operation can not be completed in ofline mode".) have to go online gain...
Not complete a update, hangs in the update process...






dan wrote:

> I still believe one year from now, STEAM technical problems will hopefully
> straightened out and it would be invisible to users while still functioning
> what it is doing now effectively.
> Fingers crossed :) 
>
> difool wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 24 Jan 2005, dan wrote:
> >
> > <snip touching post of a confessed steam lover>
> >
> > > After so many pains and inconveniences inflicted to them, they will
> > > still eager to play Valve's games no matter what...They still will love
> > > Valve....
> >
> > i usually regard post by steam lovers like yourself as trash and worthless
> > propaganda but yours is different... yours is almost like a "confession of
> > a steam lover"... like a confession of a drug addict acknowledging his
> > disease... very touching and moving...
> >
> > > I wish Valve appreciates that fact.
> >
> > oh yes they appreciate the fact you give them MONEY!
> >
> > > (In fact, I believe that Valve is AWARE of that level of tolerance and
> > > loyalty of their fans when they decided to implement STEAM).
> >
> > valve is not only AWARE but its using it!
> > valve is using what you call tolerance to force steam!
> > its like a drug dealer using drug addiction on a drug addict
> >
> > your post is a landmark for these group
> > thank you for writing
> > for the first time a steam addict confessed his sickening dependency
> > i really hope this will make others wake up and look for help, cause
> > help is available and its worth trying
> >
> > i was really impressed with what you wrote
> > your post touched me and i'm sure many others...
> > i feel sorry for you
> > hope you'll cure yourself and have a speedy recovery
> > don't forget help is available!
> > and there is life after steam and valve... a beautiful life steam-free!
> >
> > --
> > post made in a steam-free computer
> > i said "NO" to valve and steam
> >
> > please sign petition "Say NO! to Steam!" available at:
> > http://www.petitiononline.com/nosteam/petition.html
January 25, 2005 5:31:55 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 14:31:54 +1100, dan <nemo@nowhere.com> wrote:

>STEAM in the background and caused severe memory leak and undesirable effect of
>STEAM on the stability of source Games and utilities. (Source SDK Valve hammer
>editor is the proof for that).

What memory leak? I don't have any problems playing any Steam based
games. Maybe the level editor is flaky (I haven't used it), but that
doesn't extend the argument to Steam or anything else.
--
Andrew, contact via interpleb.blogspot.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.
Anonymous
January 25, 2005 5:31:55 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"dan" <nemo@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:41F5BDAA.C9AAFBEA@nowhere.com...
> STEAM in the background and caused severe memory leak and undesirable
effect of
> STEAM on the stability of source Games and utilities. (Source SDK Valve
hammer
> editor is the proof for that).
> When I chose offline mode (option not update any game, disconnect my
network,
> press cancel while STEAM loads), if I play a particular game offline and
it
> crashes (it happens very often, next time I play it again , i get "This
> operation can not be completed in ofline mode".) have to go online gain...
> Not complete a update, hangs in the update process...

In making my point, I didn't mean to belittle any problems you are having.
January 25, 2005 5:33:41 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 00:58:14 +1100, daniel <nowhere@noland.com> wrote:

>I can tell the many issues with Source games (crashes to desktop) is caused by STEAM
>that runs in the background and stressed out resources.
>STEAM itself is a buggy knowing-all, doing-all, multiple functions,
>multiple-system-calls software that runs actively in the background ...
>How can you play your already flaky 3d intensive application on top of that unstable
>platform.

So you have a screwed up misconfigured POS for a PC and so you blame
Steam. You really should stop listening to DiFool.
--
Andrew, contact via interpleb.blogspot.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.
January 25, 2005 7:38:50 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

In article <41f5a681$0$63181$4d5ecec7@reader.city-net.com>, "JoeSmooth" <f@ke.70053> wrote:

>I don't think Steam has been particualarly buggy. I had some problems on
>release day one, but that's to be expected. (I've only used it in offline
>mode since). Others have had issues too, but there's a whole school of
>people (to which I belong) that just don't like it for the unneccesary
>hassle it causes (especailly to 56Kers and SP players), for the invasion of
>privacy, for the problem it creates in reselling games and likewise limiting
>the ability to find steam titles in the USED bin, and for the door it opens
>to more marketing and advertising to gamers (to name a few). Any techincal
>issues with Steam can and probably will eventually be worked out, but a
>steam that works 100% as designed is still rejected by many not because they
>are against the convience of direct downloading for broadband... not because
>they can't see ANY merit in it.... but because of all the other bullshit
>that Steam CHOSE to make part of the package.

Add to that the possibility that the Steam model could be adopted by other
developers (either thru Valve's licensing or copy-cat efforts), such that, not
just HL2, but most of PC gaming is also ruined for those who find Steam
unacceptable... and that's pretty much it in a very, very large nutshell.

Steam is like a turd with chocolate morsels in it: some people only focus on
the chocolate, while others can't get over the turd. :-)
Anonymous
January 26, 2005 5:49:54 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Blaming anyone with a STEAM problem with the simple argument of "screw up
POS computer" is a cheap pathetic Valve's fanboi childish pueril bullying behavior.
I hate these typical Valve's fanboi (read "slave") with a passion.

Never a game in the past has witnessed many users with that many different pc
configurations complaint about its instability. All of them have POS machines?




Andrew wrote:

> On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 00:58:14 +1100, daniel <nowhere@noland.com> wrote:
>
> >I can tell the many issues with Source games (crashes to desktop) is caused by STEAM
> >that runs in the background and stressed out resources.
> >STEAM itself is a buggy knowing-all, doing-all, multiple functions,
> >multiple-system-calls software that runs actively in the background ...
> >How can you play your already flaky 3d intensive application on top of that unstable
> >platform.
>
> So you have a screwed up misconfigured POS for a PC and so you blame
> Steam. You really should stop listening to DiFool.
> --
> Andrew,
Anonymous
January 26, 2005 5:49:55 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 02:49:54 +1100, df <df@dontbother.com> wrote:

>Blaming anyone with a STEAM problem with the simple argument of "screw up
>POS computer" is a cheap pathetic Valve's fanboi childish pueril bullying behavior.
>I hate these typical Valve's fanboi (read "slave") with a passion.
>
>Never a game in the past has witnessed many users with that many different pc
>configurations complaint about its instability. All of them have POS machines?

Dogs of War. It does not function under one of the operating systems
listed on the box. Win 98/ME works fine - provided it doesn't crash from
another issue first.

Quake - Does not work on Windows XP, nor does it work when the user
attempts to disable sound by removing the BLASTER variable. (This does not
apply to source ports, as they've either been fixed or do not apply to the
platform they are running on.

Flying Heroes - On some systems (usually Creative Labs and an AMD chip,
might have another trigger), the game will crash 2-3 minutes into the game.
Wouldn't be a problem, if it weren't for the fact that the bug reporting
"Send to Erik" system didn't work. It was fixed by turning down Hardware
Sound Accelleration.

These things are reproducable - even if it works fine on one computer, it's
not too much of a problem to get it failing on another computer.

The problems with the Source games released under Steam are no different
than instability issues with FarCry or any other newly released engine.
Even UT2003 had major stability issues at the release of the first demo -
the only reason it got fixed was because there was a consistant problem as
opposed to random claims about the game being unstable. Basically, yes -
everyone has a POS machine.
Anonymous
January 26, 2005 7:52:28 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Jeff wrote:
> In article <41f5a681$0$63181$4d5ecec7@reader.city-net.com>,
> "JoeSmooth" <f@ke.70053> wrote:
>
>> I don't think Steam has been particualarly buggy. I had some
>> problems on release day one, but that's to be expected. (I've only
>> used it in offline mode since). Others have had issues too, but
>> there's a whole school of people (to which I belong) that just don't
>> like it for the unneccesary hassle it causes (especailly to 56Kers
>> and SP players), for the invasion of privacy, for the problem it
>> creates in reselling games and likewise limiting the ability to find
>> steam titles in the USED bin, and for the door it opens to more
>> marketing and advertising to gamers (to name a few). Any techincal
>> issues with Steam can and probably will eventually be worked out,
>> but a steam that works 100% as designed is still rejected by many
>> not because they are against the convience of direct downloading for
>> broadband... not because they can't see ANY merit in it.... but
>> because of all the other bullshit that Steam CHOSE to make part of
>> the package.
>
> Add to that the possibility that the Steam model could be adopted by
> other
> developers (either thru Valve's licensing or copy-cat efforts), such
> that, not
> just HL2, but most of PC gaming is also ruined for those who find
> Steam
> unacceptable... and that's pretty much it in a very, very large
> nutshell.
>
> Steam is like a turd with chocolate morsels in it: some people only
> focus on
> the chocolate, while others can't get over the turd. :-)

thats a valid, but absolutely disgusting analogy

--


You're not a God, you're a birthday cake!
Anonymous
January 26, 2005 12:30:20 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Wed, 26 Jan 2005, daniel wrote:

> I can tell the many issues with Source games (crashes to desktop) is caused by STEAM
> that runs in the background and stressed out resources.
> STEAM itself is a buggy knowing-all, doing-all, multiple functions,
> multiple-system-calls software that runs actively in the background ...
> How can you play your already flaky 3d intensive application on top of that unstable
> platform.
> It will stress your system unnecessarily, that is why source games have so many
> mysterious problems, unpredictable, on and off problems on different systems
> configurations and set up ..That's the characteristics of STEAM problem together
> with Source games problems. Briefly, run two buggy pieces of softwares on top of each
> other is worse off than running only one, Is it?

exactly! very well said!
and please don't ever feel intimidated or pressured by posters in this
group threatening killfilling you or calling you a troll
please be always true to yourself! and speak FREELY!
don't never let THEM condition you at all!
i'll be always an interested reader of your posts!
keep on posting please!

--
post made in a steam-free computer
i said "NO" to valve and steam

please sign petition "Say NO! to Steam!" available at:
http://www.petitiononline.com/nosteam/petition.html
Anonymous
January 26, 2005 12:30:24 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 Raymond Martineau wrote:

> You also haven't noticed the troll on the newsgroup spweing massive
> anti-Steam propoganda to annoying levels. He singlehandedly make the
> entire anti-steam posters look bad.

dr martinez be coherent please, so you call me troll but next you say
i'm so important i made anti-steam look bad? don't be ridiculous!

> Attempting the same will get you killfiled. If you want to have people
> believe your claims, you should at least provide evidence rather than
> blaming your regular problems on something you haven't even researched.

don't try to censor this group dr martinez!
don't try to condition others dr martinez!
don't try to threaten others dr martinez!
don't try to make others write what you like or else be killfiled and
called a troll!
don't act like you are the censorship agent in this group dr martinez!

i have more respect for the steam lovers at least they flame and call
you names, but you dr martinez with your snobbish paternalistic and
despicable way try to condition other poster in writing what you want!

and as for the research and evidence you talk about make it YOUR high
standard for YOUR posts and don't be ridiculous and ask for scientific
evidence in a newsgroup dealing with games!
so now dr martinez wants scientific evidence for every claim made in
this group or else have penalty of being killfiled and called a troll!
ridiculous despicable snob!
dr martinez don't be a paternalistic snob!

--
post made in a steam-free computer
i said "NO" to valve and steam

please sign petition "Say NO! to Steam!" available at:
http://www.petitiononline.com/nosteam/petition.html
Anonymous
January 26, 2005 3:47:12 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

<chadwick110@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1106649109.791787.30330@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

> My problem was not a technical one (I haven't even had the stuttering
> in-game), just one of my expectations not matching the reality. Valve
> would have done better to have included a guide explaining what would
> happen when you installed HL2 retail (it wasn't intuitive) and either
> providing phone authentication, or making the need for online
> authentication more obvious on the box.
>
> Note that I'm talking about the retail box here, which is where almost
> all the complaints are coming from.

I definitely agree with the latter part of what you said - there is no
warning about initial and periodic internet authentication being required
just to play the single player game. Steam should be a totally optional
process for the retail boxed game, not imposed against the paying customer's
will.
January 26, 2005 4:50:42 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

In article <ct77mj$d8g$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>, "Stoned Monkey" <tenny2k@NOSPAMrtennant.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

>> Steam is like a turd with chocolate morsels in it: some people only
>> focus on
>> the chocolate, while others can't get over the turd. :-)
>
>thats a valid, but absolutely disgusting analogy

Thank you. I was inspired. :-)
Anonymous
January 26, 2005 6:52:50 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

daniel wrote:
> I can tell the many issues with Source games (crashes to desktop) is caused by STEAM
> that runs in the background and stressed out resources.


If it doesn't leak on my PC, its almost certainly not gonna leak on
yours. Your machine is FUBARred.

Stressed out resources my ass.
!