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Acoustic Guitar Microphone Poll

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Anonymous
August 8, 2004 1:29:03 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Could you please list your favourite microphones, in order of
preference, for recording steel string acoustic guitars in these two
scenarios? Feel free to add your corresponding preamp choices, too.
Thanks.

Bill

1. Small room with acoustic treatment.

2. Perfect concert hall with no acoustic problems.
Anonymous
August 8, 2004 9:17:26 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

in article 926463d.0408072029.5516305@posting.google.com, Bill Wilson at
billybobthewilson@hotmail.com wrote on 8/8/04 12:29 AM:

> Could you please list your favourite microphones, in order of
> preference, for recording steel string acoustic guitars in these two
> scenarios? Feel free to add your corresponding preamp choices, too.
> Thanks.
>
> Bill
>
> 1. Small room with acoustic treatment.
>
> 2. Perfect concert hall with no acoustic problems.

km 84 or any good omni

I'd like to try the 'honest' strain of Neuman LD's (170, 193) in card to see
how they work at a couple feet but haven't had the pleasure yet.
Anonymous
August 8, 2004 9:44:34 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<< Could you please list your favourite microphones, in order of
preference, for recording steel string acoustic guitars in these two
scenarios?

1. Small room with acoustic treatment.>>

Pair of Neumann KM84s.

<<2. Perfect concert hall with no acoustic problems. >>

Pair of Neumann KM84s.

BTW, when somebody locates this perfect concert hall with no acoustic problems,
please let me know.



Scott Fraser
Related resources
Anonymous
August 8, 2004 9:49:33 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

<< I'd like to try the 'honest' strain of Neuman LD's (170, 193) in card to see
how they work at a couple feet but haven't had the pleasure yet. >>

I've done quite a lot of solo guitar recording with a pair of TLM193s out about
4 feet (on an oak floor in a live room) & they just sound great. Not hyped at
all, just natural, a nice sense of space & intimacy.

Scott Fraser
Anonymous
August 8, 2004 10:54:57 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Bill Wilson" <billybobthewilson@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:926463d.0408072029.5516305@posting.google.com
> Could you please list your favourite microphones, in order of
> preference, for recording steel string acoustic guitars in these two
> scenarios? Feel free to add your corresponding preamp choices, too.
> Thanks.
>
> Bill
>
> 1. Small room with acoustic treatment.
>
> 2. Perfect concert hall with no acoustic problems.

From the lower end of the price spectrum - MXL 603
Anonymous
August 8, 2004 1:40:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Bill Wilson wrote:

> Could you please list your favourite microphones, in order of
> preference, for recording steel string acoustic guitars in these two
> scenarios? Feel free to add your corresponding preamp choices, too.
>
> 1. Small room with acoustic treatment.
>
> 2. Perfect concert hall with no acoustic problems.


Jim Williams-modified AKG C460B's into a Gordon Preamp for both. Probably CK63 caps on the small room, probably CK62's in the good (but quite imperfect) hall, but could end up with CK61's either place depending.
Anonymous
August 8, 2004 1:57:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Sun, 8 Aug 2004 00:29:03 -0400, Bill Wilson wrote
(in article <926463d.0408072029.5516305@posting.google.com>):

> Could you please list your favourite microphones, in order of
> preference, for recording steel string acoustic guitars in these two
> scenarios? Feel free to add your corresponding preamp choices, too.
> Thanks.
>
> Bill
>
> 1. Small room with acoustic treatment.
>
> 2. Perfect concert hall with no acoustic problems.

Schoeps cmc641 for both

Ty Ford



-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at http://home.comcast.net/~tyreeford
Anonymous
August 8, 2004 2:06:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <926463d.0408072029.5516305@posting.google.com>,
billybobthewilson@hotmail.com says...
> 1. Small room with acoustic treatment.

I really like the TLM103 with my Taylors. Of course, the Taylors are
already bright, and so is the TLM103, so some might find this overly so,
but it really captured the sparkle.

--
Jay Levitt |
Wellesley, MA | Hi!
Faster: jay at jay dot eff-em | Where are we going?
http://www.jay.fm | Why am I in this handbasket?
Anonymous
August 8, 2004 6:47:44 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

in article MPG.1b7ffd725eb522979897d6@news-east.giganews.com, Jay Levitt at
jay+news@jay.fm wrote on 8/8/04 10:06 AM:

> I really like the TLM103 with my Taylors. Of course, the Taylors are
> already bright, and so is the TLM103, so some might find this overly so,
> but it really captured the sparkle.

WHEW!!!! that saounds DANGEROUS....
Anonymous
August 8, 2004 6:47:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Sun, 08 Aug 2004 14:47:44 GMT, JoVee <ten.nozirev@dlywsinhoj.com>
wrote:

>in article MPG.1b7ffd725eb522979897d6@news-east.giganews.com, Jay Levitt at
>jay+news@jay.fm wrote on 8/8/04 10:06 AM:
>
>> I really like the TLM103 with my Taylors. Of course, the Taylors are
>> already bright, and so is the TLM103, so some might find this overly so,
>> but it really captured the sparkle.
>
>WHEW!!!! that saounds DANGEROUS....

One man's sparkle is another man's aggravation...
Anonymous
August 8, 2004 6:51:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <lppch0lv96miumuo8glp0fc5vjhcoj1h2q@4ax.com>,
playon@comcast.net says...
> >> I really like the TLM103 with my Taylors. Of course, the Taylors are
> >> already bright, and so is the TLM103, so some might find this overly so,
> >> but it really captured the sparkle.
> >
> >WHEW!!!! that saounds DANGEROUS....
>
> One man's sparkle is another man's aggravation...

Quite true - hence the caveat. I should also point out that when I
record the acoustic, it's often the only or main instrument in the mix -
male vocal, acoustic rhythm guitar, and drums, maybe some synth pads. I
can't imagine the TLM would work for a rhythm guitar that's trying to
sit nicely in a full mix where something else is providing the highs.
But if you want that Shawn-Colvin "Diamond in the Rough" sound, and you
really want to bring out the percussive picking and the harmonics, it's
excellent.

--
Jay Levitt |
Wellesley, MA | Hi!
Faster: jay at jay dot eff-em | Where are we going?
http://www.jay.fm | Why am I in this handbasket?
Anonymous
August 8, 2004 6:53:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Had good luck with Soundroom MK-012's into Trident S20
HTH Jer @ sundog audio, chicago
Anonymous
August 8, 2004 7:39:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Bill Wilson" <billybobthewilson@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:926463d.0408072029.5516305@posting.google.com...
> Could you please list your favourite microphones, in order of
> preference, for recording steel string acoustic guitars in these two
> scenarios? Feel free to add your corresponding preamp choices, too.
> Thanks.
>
> Bill
>
> 1. Small room with acoustic treatment.
>
> 2. Perfect concert hall with no acoustic problems.

Option 2 does not exist anywhere on the planet. But there are some pretty
nice halls anyway. It's not often that I'll record an acoustic guitar in
one, though.

I also don't have an exact order of preference, since different guitars like
different mikes. In talking about this, I won't limit myself to microphones
I actually own.

For Martins and guitars based on their design, I very much like the
Microtech Gefell M930, the Neumann U-87 and the Sennheiser MKH40, sometimes
also the AKG C451 (the original, not the reissue, which isn't). For Gibsons
and smaller-bodied Larrivees and Taylors, I like the Neumann KM-84 and,
sometimes, the unassuming Oktava MC012 (yes, really). The Oktava is
sometimes useful for certain (smaller) Santa Cruz models, too; so is the
M930. For Guild jumbos, which have a sound all their own, I sometimes wind
up using the Shure SM81; the M930 sometimes works, but sometimes the
crispier sound of the SM81 is more appropriate. On most of these
non-Martinesque guitars, perhaps excepting the Guilds, the MKH40 would
probably do very nicely, but I haven't had the chance to try it out on them.

On any one guitar, of course, you need to listen and find the microphone
that's actually right, but those are the ones I reach for first.

Peace,
Paul
Anonymous
August 9, 2004 1:12:22 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 8/7/04 9:29 PM, in article 926463d.0408072029.5516305@posting.google.com,
"Bill Wilson" <billybobthewilson@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Could you please list your favourite microphones, in order of
> preference, for recording steel string acoustic guitars in these two
> scenarios? Feel free to add your corresponding preamp choices, too.
> Thanks.
>
> Bill
>
> 1. Small room with acoustic treatment.
>
> 2. Perfect concert hall with no acoustic problems.

Small room (mine, 18' x 12' x 8')

Pair Schoeps CMC6/MK4 (XY or ORTF) ==> Pendulum Audio MDP-1A plus
1x Microtech Gefell UMT 800 (center) ==> John Hardy M-2

Perfect concert hall. Dunno, but I guess I'd try:

Decca Tree 3x M150 ==> GML

--
Stephen Boyke
Anonymous
August 9, 2004 2:34:38 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Bill Wilson" <billybobthewilson@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:926463d.0408072029.5516305@posting.google.com...
> Could you please list your favourite microphones, in order of
> preference, for recording steel string acoustic guitars in these two
> scenarios? Feel free to add your corresponding preamp choices, too.
> Thanks.
>
> Bill
>
> 1. Small room with acoustic treatment.

Neumann KM-84 or 184

> 2. Perfect concert hall with no acoustic problems.

I don't go there often... :-(

--
David Morgan (MAMS)
http://www.m-a-m-s DOT com
Morgan Audio Media Service
Dallas, Texas (214) 662-9901
_______________________________________
http://www.artisan-recordingstudio.com
Anonymous
August 9, 2004 2:43:04 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Bill Wilson" <billybobthewilson@hotmail.com> a écrit dans le message de
news:926463d.0408072029.5516305@posting.google.com...
> Could you please list your favourite microphones, in order of
> preference, for recording steel string acoustic guitars in these two
> scenarios? Feel free to add your corresponding preamp choices, too.
> Thanks.
>
> Bill
>
> 1. Small room with acoustic treatment.
>
> 2. Perfect concert hall with no acoustic problems.



Sometimes, a Oktava matched pair in x-y, roughly between the sound hole and
the end of the neck; distance from 1 to 3 feet, according to the guitar and
the song.

I lastly use an "idiot proof" way to record an ac. guitar that leaves me
many choices for later at the mix, depending of the style and the
orchestration of the song:
I take the Oktavas as A-B stereo on separate tracks, starting one mic12
inches facing the bridge and the other 12 inches of the 12th fret.
At the same time, I use a M-S set-up with a Rode NT-2 for center (on a mono
track) with a AT 4050 as side mic, with a xlr cable that doubles an inverts
its signal
on a "stereo" track.

Now is the time: I can use any Oktava track as a mono track, or both as a
stereo pair,
I can use the mono NT-2 track alone,
I can add the "sides" track (4050) to the Rone
NT-2, in various degree to change the width of the gtr in the mix and how
the room sound will be in relation to the direct sound.

Numbers of possibilities that I keep to the mix,
where I can choose one of the different sound who is ok for the song.

What is great with "multi-miking" is that you can track many songs with the
same set-up in a hurry, and finish at the mix with differents sounds of
guitar according to the song and others instruments.
I'm not sure if my explanation is clear, but anyway, it's how I record gtr
at this moment !!!

André
Anonymous
August 9, 2004 6:21:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

A couple that haven't been mentioned yet are the Lawson L47MP and (believe it
or not) the Rode NT-1.

The Lawson is really amazingly good in its midrange and doesn't have excess top
end or boominess. I usually put it about 10" from the 14the fret, aiming at the
soundhole, with the pattern knob set to a bit on the omni side of cardioid
(about 10:30-11 o'clock). Combined with a Neve 1073 it's possibly the best agt
mic/pre/eq chain I've ever tried.

The very affordable but much-maligned NT-1 (I have a pair) have also been
surprisingly good, although I've heard here that they vary greatly in
consistency. My pair are quite well matched, fortunately. I often use one as
the other half of the stereo pair with the Lawson as described above, but they
work well as a pair themselves as well. They're pretty sparkly, which can be
nice, and are a bit bass shy which is usually a good thing on agt when it's
miked fairly close.

Otherwise I'd agree with the others re: KM84s, 451s and SM81s. I haven't tried
the Schoeps yet though. For some reason I rarely find them in the NYC studios I
frequent.


Ted Spencer, NYC

"No amount of classical training will ever teach you what's so cool about
"Tighten Up" by Archie Bell And The Drells" -author unknown
Anonymous
August 10, 2004 11:35:51 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Since I've never recorded in "2", the answer to "1" would be a Royer
121. Into an API pre.....lovely on a Gibson.
later,
m
Anonymous
August 10, 2004 1:15:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I have, and with Charlie Byrd, no less. The 170 was like sitting 3 feet
away from Charlie throughout the venue. Beautifully rendered recording of
his guitar from 2 feet away with a fairly narrow configuration (it's an
infinitely variable pattern mic). I've also used the 170 on sax and it was
superb.

See, Ty, I have used Neumanns and I know what they sound like.

--
-----------

Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio


"JoVee" <ten.nozirev@dlywsinhoj.com> wrote in message
news:BD3B302B.73B%ten.nozirev@dlywsinhoj.com...
> in article 926463d.0408072029.5516305@posting.google.com, Bill Wilson at
> billybobthewilson@hotmail.com wrote on 8/8/04 12:29 AM:
>
> > Could you please list your favourite microphones, in order of
> > preference, for recording steel string acoustic guitars in these two
> > scenarios? Feel free to add your corresponding preamp choices, too.
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > 1. Small room with acoustic treatment.
> >
> > 2. Perfect concert hall with no acoustic problems.
>
> km 84 or any good omni
>
> I'd like to try the 'honest' strain of Neuman LD's (170, 193) in card to
see
> how they work at a couple feet but haven't had the pleasure yet.
>
Anonymous
August 10, 2004 2:09:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <926463d.0408072029.5516305@posting.google.com>,
billybobthewilson@hotmail.com (Bill Wilson) writes:

>Could you please list your favourite microphones, in order of
>preference, for recording steel string acoustic guitars in these two
>scenarios? Feel free to add your corresponding preamp choices, too.
>Thanks.
>
>Bill
>
>1. Small room with acoustic treatment.

Well, I feel qualified to answer *that* part of the Q. (As far as perfect
concert halls, I dunno but I suspect that the following would still apply.) In
my little acoustically questionable room my goto mic is a Schoeps 641 and
usually into a Grace 201 or a Great River pre because of their transparency.
But I could easily make-do with an Oktava MC 012 or even an AKG 460. Have also
had good luck with a TLM 103 and KSM 32.

Garth~


"I think the fact that music can come up a wire is a miracle."
Ed Cherney
Anonymous
August 11, 2004 2:50:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 09:15:56 -0400, Roger W. Norman wrote
(in article <4118ca81$0$5896$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>):

> I have, and with Charlie Byrd, no less. The 170 was like sitting 3 feet
> away from Charlie throughout the venue. Beautifully rendered recording of
> his guitar from 2 feet away with a fairly narrow configuration (it's an
> infinitely variable pattern mic). I've also used the 170 on sax and it was
> superb.
>
> See, Ty, I have used Neumanns and I know what they sound like.
>
> --
> -----------
>
> Roger W. Norman
> SirMusic Studio

Roger,

You still have a LOT of make good work to do for the damage you've done, but
a little contrition goes a long way.

Ty Ford


-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at http://home.comcast.net/~tyreeford
Anonymous
August 11, 2004 3:48:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> Roger,
>
> You still have a LOT of make good work to do for the damage you've done,
but
> a little contrition goes a long way.
>
> Ty Ford

Not my style, Ty. As much as you'd like to think that I'm the ultimate
culprit on this newsgroup, I don't even rank up there enough to garner a
position on the top ten number of posters. Considering that Scott is one of
those top ten, it also says that hijacking the newsgroup is probably a
little overboard in your representation of the damage I'M DOING.

However, I don't have any 'make good work' to do. Either people choose to
read my posts or they don't.

And my work, whether it is 'make good work' or not has nothing to do with
anything because I'm not subject to your definition of my existence on RAP.
I've been here for years, bud. Not all of those years was my participation
involved with any political discussions. But just because you say that any
of those discussions of which I either participated or even precipitated
negates my years of whatever level of minimal contributions I've offered
doesn't make it so. If I've helped one person just once, then I've probably
done more than I expected. Certainly I can't be viewed as important to the
existence of the group, but I have offered up a lot of work and sometimes
even some reasonable information on this newsgroup. But I'm sure that if I
hadn't done 3 years of compilation transfers, someone else would have done
so. But I DID do them, and that should say something about my commitment in
the first place. If you wish to denigrate my participation at every chance,
then feel free to do so. You don't scare me and you don't hurt me, but most
of all, you don't amuse me.

--
-----------

Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio


"Ty Ford" <tyreeford@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:j7ednSaG7KWzr4fcRVn-iw@comcast.com...
> On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 09:15:56 -0400, Roger W. Norman wrote
> (in article <4118ca81$0$5896$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>):
>
> > I have, and with Charlie Byrd, no less. The 170 was like sitting 3 feet
> > away from Charlie throughout the venue. Beautifully rendered recording
of
> > his guitar from 2 feet away with a fairly narrow configuration (it's an
> > infinitely variable pattern mic). I've also used the 170 on sax and it
was
> > superb.
> >
> > See, Ty, I have used Neumanns and I know what they sound like.
> >
> > --
> > -----------
> >
> > Roger W. Norman
> > SirMusic Studio
>
>
>
> -- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other
audiocentric
> stuff are at http://home.comcast.net/~tyreeford
>
Anonymous
August 11, 2004 8:05:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Bill:
Really depends on the kind of music (pop, country, rock?), rhythm or
lead but in general...

> 1. Small room with acoustic treatment.

Neumann KM54, AKG C12, Schoeps CMC 641 if you have them. If not, KM84
or AKG 451. If the player plays with his fingers and uses the fleshy
part of the tip more than his nail, it can get dull and a 451 or even
KM184 (extra bright) helps cut through. If he's strumming or using a
pick, the KM54 is hard to beat.

AT 4051a is a real sleeper as it's not as well known but does a great
job too.

>
> 2. Perfect concert hall with no acoustic problems.

I'd use the same mics here too...


Audy O



billybobthewilson@hotmail.com (Bill Wilson) wrote in message news:<926463d.0408072029.5516305@posting.google.com>...
> Could you please list your favourite microphones, in order of
> preference, for recording steel string acoustic guitars in these two
> scenarios? Feel free to add your corresponding preamp choices, too.
> Thanks.
>
> Bill
>
Anonymous
August 12, 2004 3:17:24 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 11 Aug 2004 16:05:59 -0700, audy@audykimura.com (Audy) wrote:

>Bill:
>Really depends on the kind of music (pop, country, rock?), rhythm or
>lead but in general...
>
>> 1. Small room with acoustic treatment.
>
>Neumann KM54, AKG C12, Schoeps CMC 641 if you have them. If not, KM84
>or AKG 451. If the player plays with his fingers and uses the fleshy
>part of the tip more than his nail, it can get dull and a 451 or even
>KM184 (extra bright) helps cut through. If he's strumming or using a
>pick, the KM54 is hard to beat.

Kind of funny to see a KM184 as "extra bright" because I thought it
was noticeably mellower than AT4041. That means the AT4041 would tear
everyone's heads off. It's all relative I guess.
Anonymous
August 12, 2004 4:32:58 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I have great success with using a stereo pair of blue dragonfly mics
on several
acoustic guitars. I also have enjoy doing m/s with a pair of 414's.
Seems the 414's get flamed alot
around here but I've gotten some gorgeous sounds with them.

In order of preference though I would probably rank,
Km84's
dragonfly (flies)
beyer mc834 (a real sleeper mic imho)
pair of 414's.

Mostly though, the guitar and player are going to be a biggest part of
the "how good will it sound equation". Unfortuneatly they arent' as
easily swapped with a trip to the mic locker.

Chris
wavetrap




billybobthewilson@hotmail.com (Bill Wilson) wrote in message news:<926463d.0408072029.5516305@posting.google.com>...
> Could you please list your favourite microphones, in order of
> preference, for recording steel string acoustic guitars in these two
> scenarios? Feel free to add your corresponding preamp choices, too.
> Thanks.
>
> Bill
>
> 1. Small room with acoustic treatment.
>
> 2. Perfect concert hall with no acoustic problems.
Anonymous
August 12, 2004 8:17:31 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

J.W.

I never used a 4041 although I know it works great on some
vocalists...I was recommending the 4051a. AT makes so many mics with
such close model numbers it's easy to confuse them.

Audy O


>
> Kind of funny to see a KM184 as "extra bright" because I thought it
> was noticeably mellower than AT4041. That means the AT4041 would tear
> everyone's heads off. It's all relative I guess.
Anonymous
August 12, 2004 1:15:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"J.W." <jwngaa@att.net> wrote in message
news:85alh01jcpgd108d3plhp3571lau43lj07@4ax.com...
> Kind of funny to see a KM184 as "extra bright" because I thought it
> was noticeably mellower than AT4041. That means the AT4041 would tear
> everyone's heads off. It's all relative I guess.

In comparison to a KM84, the KM184 is bright. It's not bright compared to a
C414 of certain vintage. I find the transformerless 414s a little bright,
but it's tameable and usable for overheards quite readily. I haven't tried
the new offerings of the 414, but the EQ review was pretty interesting. Not
interesting enough to make me rush out and buy one, but enough to actually
put it back on my list again.

I didn't see any notice of beyer or other ribbons for this application,
although I could certainly see them being included on a list of mics to try.

I did find, on the list of inexpensive mics, that the MXL 990s did a great
job in vertical coincident XY on a fingerpicked steel string acoustic.
Transformerless, and it was prominent on the high end, but not overly
bright. The nice thing is the pair was matched pretty well and still only
cost $130.

And I see I was wrong. A Royer was mentioned, which, if the money is
available, would be a nice addition to a mic closet because it's so
versatile.

--
-----------

Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio



> On 11 Aug 2004 16:05:59 -0700, audy@audykimura.com (Audy) wrote:
>
> >Bill:
> >Really depends on the kind of music (pop, country, rock?), rhythm or
> >lead but in general...
> >
> >> 1. Small room with acoustic treatment.
> >
> >Neumann KM54, AKG C12, Schoeps CMC 641 if you have them. If not, KM84
> >or AKG 451. If the player plays with his fingers and uses the fleshy
> >part of the tip more than his nail, it can get dull and a 451 or even
> >KM184 (extra bright) helps cut through. If he's strumming or using a
> >pick, the KM54 is hard to beat.
>
Anonymous
August 12, 2004 2:30:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

People really seem to like KM84s on RAP. I sold my pair of KM84s
after buying a pair of Schoeps, & I don't understand why people like
the KM84s so much, the low end on them sounds mushy and indistinct to
me. The Neumanns have kind of a nice smooth sound to them but are not
very accurate IMO.

Al

On 12 Aug 2004 00:32:58 -0700, wavcatcher@comcast.net (Chris Seifert)
wrote:

>I have great success with using a stereo pair of blue dragonfly mics
>on several
>acoustic guitars. I also have enjoy doing m/s with a pair of 414's.
>Seems the 414's get flamed alot
>around here but I've gotten some gorgeous sounds with them.
>
>In order of preference though I would probably rank,
>Km84's
>dragonfly (flies)
>beyer mc834 (a real sleeper mic imho)
>pair of 414's.
>
>Mostly though, the guitar and player are going to be a biggest part of
>the "how good will it sound equation". Unfortuneatly they arent' as
>easily swapped with a trip to the mic locker.
>
>Chris
>wavetrap
>
>
>
>
>billybobthewilson@hotmail.com (Bill Wilson) wrote in message news:<926463d.0408072029.5516305@posting.google.com>...
>> Could you please list your favourite microphones, in order of
>> preference, for recording steel string acoustic guitars in these two
>> scenarios? Feel free to add your corresponding preamp choices, too.
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Bill
>>
>> 1. Small room with acoustic treatment.
>>
>> 2. Perfect concert hall with no acoustic problems.
Anonymous
August 12, 2004 2:32:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Audy <audy@audykimura.com> wrote:
>
>I never used a 4041 although I know it works great on some
>vocalists...I was recommending the 4051a. AT makes so many mics with
>such close model numbers it's easy to confuse them.

The top end on the 4051a and 4053 are much, much cleaner than on the 4041.
They still aren't as clean as the Schoeps, of course.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
August 12, 2004 3:14:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

billybobthewilson@hotmail.com (Bill Wilson) wrote in message news:<926463d.0408072029.5516305@posting.google.com>...
> Could you please list your favourite microphones, in order of
> preference, for recording steel string acoustic guitars in these two
> scenarios? Feel free to add your corresponding preamp choices, too.
> Thanks.
>
> Bill
>
> 1. Small room with acoustic treatment.
>
> 2. Perfect concert hall with no acoustic problems.

1. B.L.U.E. Dragonfly

2. I have never worked as an engineer in such a place.
August 12, 2004 4:00:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <6e9dc628.0408120317.6b5c82b1@posting.google.com>,
audy@audykimura.com (Audy) wrote:

> J.W.
>
> I never used a 4041 although I know it works great on some
> vocalists...I was recommending the 4051a. AT makes so many mics with
> such close model numbers it's easy to confuse them.
>
> Audy O
>
>
lol AKG and thier 40 "diffrent " 414's drive me nuts
G
Anonymous
August 12, 2004 4:19:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 19:17:24 -0400, J.W. wrote
(in article <85alh01jcpgd108d3plhp3571lau43lj07@4ax.com>):

> On 11 Aug 2004 16:05:59 -0700, audy@audykimura.com (Audy) wrote:
>
>> Bill:
>> Really depends on the kind of music (pop, country, rock?), rhythm or
>> lead but in general...
>>
>>> 1. Small room with acoustic treatment.
>>
>> Neumann KM54, AKG C12, Schoeps CMC 641 if you have them. If not, KM84
>> or AKG 451. If the player plays with his fingers and uses the fleshy
>> part of the tip more than his nail, it can get dull and a 451 or even
>> KM184 (extra bright) helps cut through. If he's strumming or using a
>> pick, the KM54 is hard to beat.
>
> Kind of funny to see a KM184 as "extra bright" because I thought it
> was noticeably mellower than AT4041. That means the AT4041 would tear
> everyone's heads off. It's all relative I guess.

the 184 is very bright.

Regards,

Ty Ford



-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at http://home.comcast.net/~tyreeford
Anonymous
August 12, 2004 4:24:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 09:15:45 -0400, Roger W. Norman wrote
(in article <411b6d7f$0$5906$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>):
>
> And I see I was wrong. A Royer was mentioned, which, if the money is
> available, would be a nice addition to a mic closet because it's so
> versatile.

Having tried two Royers on acoustic guitars, I'm still very unconvinced that
ribbons and acoustic guitars are the right choice when good, equally-priced
condensers are available.

Regards,

Ty Ford



-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at http://home.comcast.net/~tyreeford
Anonymous
August 12, 2004 4:24:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 12:24:36 -0400, Ty Ford <tyreeford@comcast.net>
wrote:

>On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 09:15:45 -0400, Roger W. Norman wrote
>(in article <411b6d7f$0$5906$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>):
>>
>> And I see I was wrong. A Royer was mentioned, which, if the money is
>> available, would be a nice addition to a mic closet because it's so
>> versatile.
>
>Having tried two Royers on acoustic guitars, I'm still very unconvinced that
>ribbons and acoustic guitars are the right choice when good, equally-priced
>condensers are available.

With a flatop, I think ribbon mics would be used more for an effect...
if you are talking about archtop guitars as used in a jazz setting,
ribbon mics can sound pretty cool, kind of a classic sound.
Anonymous
August 12, 2004 5:34:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> Having tried two Royers on acoustic guitars, I'm still very unconvinced
that
> ribbons and acoustic guitars are the right choice when good,
equally-priced
> condensers are available.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ty Ford

I'd most likely agree if the circumstances are right, but then, if it comes
to a virtual all around mic that mic make sense, a Royer might make the cut.
Wouldn't be the best for a Martin, for example, but might make it for a
Takemine, or a Santa Cruz, both being somewhat more prominent acoustic
guitars than a Martin. My problem is that I only like certain Martins, like
the 00018 and the 0028 although I recorded a Shenandoah that worked out
nicely. The problem is that it was just a fun thing for an afternoon for a
friend of a friend and I don't remember what I did to record the Shenandoah.

But like I said, it's a nice addition to the mic closet if one has the
money. It's way outside of the dollars expressed on this thread, as would
be a Blueberry or 103 or any number of other mics. It is, however, nice to
know what mics cost that might fit the bill from people that have done the
recording of such instruments. My earlier example of recording Charlie Byrd
was with him playing a Chet Atkins cat gut. I'd be glad to send it to you
if you'd like, as long as you don't do anything public with it. Remember,
it was with a Neumann 170VR about 2 feet out and I'd have to admit it wasn't
his best performance. It was still exemplary, though. On a bad day the
best can outplay the good on a good day.

--
-----------

Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio


"Ty Ford" <tyreeford@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:-dCdnYV_sslVBIbcRVn-rg@comcast.com...
> On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 09:15:45 -0400, Roger W. Norman wrote
> (in article <411b6d7f$0$5906$61fed72c@news.rcn.com>):
> >
> > And I see I was wrong. A Royer was mentioned, which, if the money is
> > available, would be a nice addition to a mic closet because it's so
> > versatile.
>
>
>
>
> -- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other
audiocentric
> stuff are at http://home.comcast.net/~tyreeford
>
Anonymous
August 13, 2004 5:32:48 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Roger W. Norman wrote:

> What is 'it'? Why take it off group? Why, Ty? You want to say something
> that everybody can't see?

You bet he does. I don't recommend the experience.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein
Anonymous
August 13, 2004 12:18:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <p4anh0p12bihtuuaq5ddpbk73v11il85qu@4ax.com> playonATcomcast.net writes:

> People really seem to like KM84s on RAP. I sold my pair of KM84s
> after buying a pair of Schoeps, & I don't understand why people like
> the KM84s so much

Because if you bought them when they were new, they were a lot cheaper
than anything available from Schoeps then and now. But if you're
looking for a used one today, you might as well go with something new
for about the same price.

> the low end on them sounds mushy and indistinct to
> me. The Neumanns have kind of a nice smooth sound to them but are not
> very accurate IMO.

I've never had a problem with the low end that couldn't be fixed by
putting them in the right place. (which, admittedly, is sometimes
back in the closet)


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
August 13, 2004 3:32:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> I've never had a problem with the low end that couldn't be fixed by
> putting them in the right place. (which, admittedly, is sometimes
> back in the closet)

Now that's cute! <g> Sometimes it takes a wise man to realize that a mic
that SHOULD work doesn't and then do something else. A lesson for all of
us.

--
-----------

Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio


"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:znr1092349515k@trad...
>
> In article <p4anh0p12bihtuuaq5ddpbk73v11il85qu@4ax.com>
playonATcomcast.net writes:
>
> > People really seem to like KM84s on RAP. I sold my pair of KM84s
> > after buying a pair of Schoeps, & I don't understand why people like
> > the KM84s so much
>
> Because if you bought them when they were new, they were a lot cheaper
> than anything available from Schoeps then and now. But if you're
> looking for a used one today, you might as well go with something new
> for about the same price.
>
> > the low end on them sounds mushy and indistinct to
> > me. The Neumanns have kind of a nice smooth sound to them but are not
> > very accurate IMO.
>
>
>
> --
> I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
> However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
> lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
> you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
> and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Anonymous
August 13, 2004 8:43:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Ty Ford wrote:

> Again you disappoint me and clutter the group with your personal
> perspectives. I sent you and email. You want to discuss it. I will not
> discuss this on group, and neither should you.

I suggested it in respnse to you privately and I'll state it
in public. Ty, you have some serious control issues.

Live and let live. Let it go. Kill entire threads in which
you have no interest with a single keystroke. Live better
through technology. There is no conceivable reason you
would be reading them to the depth you do to then just make
people wrong about taking part in them. Why are you taking
part in them?


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein
Anonymous
August 14, 2004 4:24:20 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <cfjj700hcs@enews4.newsguy.com>, Bob Cain <arcane@arcanemethods.com>
writes:

> Ty, you have some serious control issues.

Having gone around with Ty on this same topic in the past I have to say that I
agree with Bob here. While off topic threads may be somewhat annoying, its not
*that* big a deal. RAP is a commuinity of people joined primarily to talk about
audio but, because we are a commuinity, there will naturally be discussions of
other things. If someone were to post excusively O.T. then I would say they
should stop but thats not the case here.

Garth~


"I think the fact that music can come up a wire is a miracle."
Ed Cherney
Anonymous
August 14, 2004 4:25:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"playonATcomcast.net" <playon@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:ep4qh0tcdatvnvs6js642cdgn9h2fvlg6m@4ax.com...
> Lighten up...
>

Ty and Roger, please consider easing up a little on each other. I've been a
daily RAP reader since '97 and include you in my short list of those whose
posts I always read because of your good judgement and ability to articulate
it. Ty, I auditioned and bought my cmc641's inspired by your comments.
Roger, I formed much of my audio concepts by studying your posts on numerous
subjects, which stand out for their maturity and ability to make plain -
even welcoming - what otherwise isn't. Hell, you both do that.

Tim

http://timothylawler.com
Anonymous
August 16, 2004 9:34:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

playonATcomcast.net <playonATcomcast.net> wrote:
>My name isn't Tim. I respect you Ty, but I think that usenet rules
>allow off-topic posts as long as the subject header is preceeded by
>"OT" to mark it as such. It is very simple for you either not read OT
>posts, or to use a newsreader that allows you to killfile by
>subject/thread or by author. So it is easy for you to avoid these
>things if you really want to. If you want to try to control behavior
>on usenet you are fighting a losing battle & just asking for
>frustration, what's the point?

Actually, the OT: thing is pretty strongly deprecated in some groups.
It's pretty new and hasn't shown up in the Emily Postnews article yet,
though.

>I enjoy talking about politics on RAP occasionally because I respect
>the intelligence of most of the regulars here and I like to see what
>they have to say about the issues raised.

I don't, really, but I understand that right now people are very much on
edge about things and that they are going to talk about it whether or
not it's appropriate. God knows I have wasted a lot of billable time in
meetings and sessions listening to people debating the war. I have not
seen folks so polarized in decades.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
August 16, 2004 11:09:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Ty Ford wrote:
>
> Now back to AUDIO. What's the neatest thing you lust for?

Right now it would have to be Gordon preamps and the Josephson Series Sixes I'm waiting for...
Anonymous
August 17, 2004 12:26:47 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 19:23:40 -0400, Ty Ford <tyreeford@comcast.net>
wrote:

>
>Now back to AUDIO. What's the neatest thing you lust for?

As far as gear, I'm pretty well set at the moment for a little home
studio, although I could use a faster computer. A slightly larger
room would be great too...
August 17, 2004 12:46:07 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Ty Ford wrote:

> In case it isn't obvious, I'm trying to get Roger and anyone else
> (Cough..Bob Cain..cough) included to understand that this news group isn't
> an invitation to post anything you want to.


Roger & Bob? It's at least slightly curious that you haven't mentioned
having any issues with Will & Romeo (for example), who are AT LEAST as
guilty as Roger & Bob (as far as OT posting goes), but, interestingly
enough, tend to be on the opposite side of most issues.

Just an honest observation. I hope I'm wrong, but you seem to be a man
with a (rather transparent) agenda.
Anonymous
August 17, 2004 12:46:08 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 20:46:07 -0400, agent86 <maxwellsmart@control.gov>
wrote:

>Ty Ford wrote:
>
>> In case it isn't obvious, I'm trying to get Roger and anyone else
>> (Cough..Bob Cain..cough) included to understand that this news group isn't
>> an invitation to post anything you want to.
>
>
>Roger & Bob? It's at least slightly curious that you haven't mentioned
>having any issues with Will & Romeo (for example), who are AT LEAST as
>guilty as Roger & Bob (as far as OT posting goes), but, interestingly
>enough, tend to be on the opposite side of most issues.

That *is* interesting isn't it.
Anonymous
August 17, 2004 2:47:50 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

agent86 wrote:

>
> Roger & Bob? It's at least slightly curious that you haven't mentioned
> having any issues with Will & Romeo (for example), who are AT LEAST as
> guilty as Roger & Bob (as far as OT posting goes), but, interestingly
> enough, tend to be on the opposite side of most issues.
>
> Just an honest observation. I hope I'm wrong, but you seem to be a man
> with a (rather transparent) agenda.

I think you've missed the mark here. I think it's because
Roger and I have both told him that we really don't care
what he thinks, it's none of my business unless I choose to
make it so, and to bugger off.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein
Anonymous
August 17, 2004 7:55:37 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> but, interestingly
>>enough, tend to be on the opposite side of most issues.
>
>That *is* interesting isn't it.

Sounds pretty normal. If it were interesting it would leave an unanswered
question..and it doesn't.



John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637
Anonymous
August 17, 2004 7:55:38 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 17 Aug 2004 03:55:37 GMT, blindjoni@aol.com (Blind Joni) wrote:

>> but, interestingly
>>>enough, tend to be on the opposite side of most issues.
>>
>>That *is* interesting isn't it.
>
>Sounds pretty normal. If it were interesting it would leave an unanswered
>question..and it doesn't.

I dunno, answers can be pretty interesting too.
Anonymous
August 17, 2004 10:09:41 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

>Sounds pretty normal. If it were interesting it would leave an unanswered
>>question..and it doesn't.
>
>I dunno, answers can be pretty interesting too.
>

I agree..the ones that are giving new information. I am glad for the recent
lack of arguing..including from myself.


John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637
!