KOTOR 2 - low quality music

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

I just bought Knights of the Old Republic 2 (PC) and discovered all
in-game music is low res mono! As near as I can tell from using
Soundforge, the music files are all 22Hz, 8-bit mono instead of 44Hz,
16-bit stereo, which makes very muddled, low-grade quality.

The difference is VERY noticeable to anybody who appreciates music, and
especially anybody who appreciates the Star Wars music. The only time
the quality is high is the main title crawl (Star Wars fanfare) in the
very beginning. After that, it's mono city.

It really pisses me off that Obsidian did this. I can only figure they
needed to milk performance gains for the graphics, so they
short-changed the music quality. Considering the graphics are not very
great to begin with, this is mystifying and I guess we chalk it up to
horrible coding. I mean, Half Life 2 or Far Cry have stunning graphics
and they can still feature music that's high quality, so WHAT GIVES?!?!

(Keep in mind the original KOTOR featured high quality stereo music,
which makes this even weirder).
19 answers Last reply
More about kotor quality music
  1. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    Voice acting and sound FX are still high quality.

    Which is what makes playing the games (on headphones anyway) such a a
    strange experience -- you have high quality voices/sound FX in EAX, yet
    behind it you're listening to background music that sounds like it was
    playing on an old 386 machine with an 8-bit Soundblaster card.
  2. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    ["Followup-To:" header set to comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg.]
    On 2005-02-10, arcanastream@yahoo.com <arcanastream@yahoo.com> wrote:
    > I just bought Knights of the Old Republic 2 (PC) and discovered all
    > in-game music is low res mono! As near as I can tell from using
    > Soundforge, the music files are all 22Hz, 8-bit mono instead of 44Hz,
    > 16-bit stereo, which makes very muddled, low-grade quality.
    >
    > The difference is VERY noticeable to anybody who appreciates music, and
    > especially anybody who appreciates the Star Wars music. The only time
    > the quality is high is the main title crawl (Star Wars fanfare) in the
    > very beginning. After that, it's mono city.

    What about the voice and sound files? I think there's a lot of
    voice acting in KOTOR2. Maybe more than the first so to get it to
    fit on 4 CDs they had to lower the quality of music to make it
    all fit.

    It is too bad though :|
  3. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 20:21:34 GMT, shadows <shadows@whitefang.com>
    wrote:

    >["Followup-To:" header set to comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg.]
    >On 2005-02-10, arcanastream@yahoo.com <arcanastream@yahoo.com> wrote:
    >> I just bought Knights of the Old Republic 2 (PC) and discovered all
    >> in-game music is low res mono! As near as I can tell from using
    >> Soundforge, the music files are all 22Hz, 8-bit mono instead of 44Hz,
    >> 16-bit stereo, which makes very muddled, low-grade quality.
    >>
    >> The difference is VERY noticeable to anybody who appreciates music, and
    >> especially anybody who appreciates the Star Wars music. The only time
    >> the quality is high is the main title crawl (Star Wars fanfare) in the
    >> very beginning. After that, it's mono city.
    >
    >What about the voice and sound files? I think there's a lot of
    >voice acting in KOTOR2. Maybe more than the first so to get it to
    >fit on 4 CDs they had to lower the quality of music to make it
    >all fit.
    >
    >It is too bad though :|
    >


    LucasArts probably ' forgot ' that most modern PCs in the United
    States have DVD-roms.

    Obsidian probably did as they were told by the distributors in terms
    of compression for US distribution.

    The European release of Kotor2(PC) will probably be on DVD-rom with
    full-bandwidth music.... grrrrrrrrrr...... Far Cry was distributed in
    Europe on DVD; at least in the US, Ubisoft used sufficient number of
    CDs for the game content not to suffer any quality loss.

    John Lewis
  4. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    arcanastream@yahoo.com wrote:
    > I just bought Knights of the Old Republic 2 (PC) and discovered all
    > in-game music is low res mono! As near as I can tell from using
    > Soundforge, the music files are all 22Hz, 8-bit mono instead of 44Hz,
    > 16-bit stereo, which makes very muddled, low-grade quality.
    >
    > The difference is VERY noticeable to anybody who appreciates music,
    > and especially anybody who appreciates the Star Wars music. The only
    > time the quality is high is the main title crawl (Star Wars fanfare)
    > in the very beginning. After that, it's mono city.
    >
    > It really pisses me off that Obsidian did this. I can only figure they
    > needed to milk performance gains for the graphics, so they
    > short-changed the music quality. Considering the graphics are not very
    > great to begin with, this is mystifying and I guess we chalk it up to
    > horrible coding. I mean, Half Life 2 or Far Cry have stunning graphics
    > and they can still feature music that's high quality, so WHAT
    > GIVES?!?!
    >
    > (Keep in mind the original KOTOR featured high quality stereo music,
    > which makes this even weirder).

    yeah I read that in the pc gamer review thats a bugger, but apart from that
    whats the game like and how does it compare to the original? no spoilers
    please

    --


    You're not a God, you're a birthday cake!
  5. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    "John Lewis" <john.dsl@verizon.net> wrote in message
    news:420bd3fc.21055608@news.verizon.net...
    > On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 20:21:34 GMT, shadows <shadows@whitefang.com>
    > wrote:
    >
    > >["Followup-To:" header set to comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg.]
    > >On 2005-02-10, arcanastream@yahoo.com <arcanastream@yahoo.com> wrote:
    > >> I just bought Knights of the Old Republic 2 (PC) and discovered all
    > >> in-game music is low res mono! As near as I can tell from using
    > >> Soundforge, the music files are all 22Hz, 8-bit mono instead of 44Hz,
    > >> 16-bit stereo, which makes very muddled, low-grade quality.
    > >>
    > >> The difference is VERY noticeable to anybody who appreciates music, and
    > >> especially anybody who appreciates the Star Wars music. The only time
    > >> the quality is high is the main title crawl (Star Wars fanfare) in the
    > >> very beginning. After that, it's mono city.
    > >
    > >What about the voice and sound files? I think there's a lot of
    > >voice acting in KOTOR2. Maybe more than the first so to get it to
    > >fit on 4 CDs they had to lower the quality of music to make it
    > >all fit.
    > >
    > >It is too bad though :|
    > >
    >
    >
    > LucasArts probably ' forgot ' that most modern PCs in the United
    > States have DVD-roms.
    >
    > Obsidian probably did as they were told by the distributors in terms
    > of compression for US distribution.
    >
    > The European release of Kotor2(PC) will probably be on DVD-rom with
    > full-bandwidth music.... grrrrrrrrrr...... Far Cry was distributed in
    > Europe on DVD; at least in the US, Ubisoft used sufficient number of
    > CDs for the game content not to suffer any quality loss.
    >
    > John Lewis
    >


    Unfortunately it's seems we're getting cd's too:
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/tg/stores/detail/-/videogames/B00029P9R8/pictures/14/202-4515177-9492661

    --
    Derek
  6. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    "Stoned Monkey" <tenny2k@NOSPAMrtennant.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
    news:cugof2$bik$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
    > arcanastream@yahoo.com wrote:
    >> I just bought Knights of the Old Republic 2 (PC) and discovered all
    >> in-game music is low res mono! As near as I can tell from using
    >> Soundforge, the music files are all 22Hz, 8-bit mono instead of 44Hz,
    >> 16-bit stereo, which makes very muddled, low-grade quality.
    >>
    >> The difference is VERY noticeable to anybody who appreciates music,
    >> and especially anybody who appreciates the Star Wars music. The only
    >> time the quality is high is the main title crawl (Star Wars fanfare)
    >> in the very beginning. After that, it's mono city.
    >>
    >> It really pisses me off that Obsidian did this. I can only figure they
    >> needed to milk performance gains for the graphics, so they
    >> short-changed the music quality. Considering the graphics are not very
    >> great to begin with, this is mystifying and I guess we chalk it up to
    >> horrible coding. I mean, Half Life 2 or Far Cry have stunning graphics
    >> and they can still feature music that's high quality, so WHAT
    >> GIVES?!?!
    >>
    >> (Keep in mind the original KOTOR featured high quality stereo music,
    >> which makes this even weirder).
    >
    > yeah I read that in the pc gamer review thats a bugger, but apart from
    > that whats the game like and how does it compare to the original? no
    > spoilers please

    I'd be curious to know whether it's as much a bugfest as the original.

    It's ridiculous when something that's normally a bug (crashes if you alt-tab
    away from it) becomes one the game's most handy features because it locks up
    so often (or just starts a ridiculous long and UNINTERRUPTABLE cutscene)
    that alt-tabbing away is the most convenient way to kill the game and get
    your computer back.
  7. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    "Stoned Monkey" <tenny2k@NOSPAMrtennant.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
    news:cugof2$bik$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
    <snip>
    > > (Keep in mind the original KOTOR featured high quality stereo music,
    > > which makes this even weirder).
    >
    > yeah I read that in the pc gamer review thats a bugger, but apart from
    that
    > whats the game like and how does it compare to the original? no spoilers
    > please
    >


    I actually restarted the original game about 4 days ago. Half Life 2 just
    ran out of steam for me. ;)

    From the few reviews that I've read, if you enjoyed the first game, you'll
    probably like the new one too.

    http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/starwarsknightsoftheoldrepublic2
  8. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    "OldDog" <OldDog@citypound.com> wrote in message
    news:%SUOd.33354$uL5.21436@fe2.texas.rr.com...
    >
    > "Stoned Monkey" <tenny2k@NOSPAMrtennant.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
    > news:cugof2$bik$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
    > <snip>
    >> > (Keep in mind the original KOTOR featured high quality stereo music,
    >> > which makes this even weirder).
    >>
    >> yeah I read that in the pc gamer review thats a bugger, but apart from
    > that
    >> whats the game like and how does it compare to the original? no spoilers
    >> please
    >>
    >
    >
    > I actually restarted the original game about 4 days ago. Half Life 2
    > just
    > ran out of steam for me. ;)
    >
    > From the few reviews that I've read, if you enjoyed the first game,

    Liked the replayability.

    Hated the bugginess.

    Liked the story.

    Hated the uninterruptible cutscenes.

    Even liked the silly little NPC stories (but not the interrupt-driven way
    you were alerted to them.)

    Hated the stupid little unpredictable banter between NPC's that broke
    gameflow. I want to travel with helpful teammates, not timebombs, thank you.

    Liked being able to play a bad guy. Didn't like being forced to take a
    particular NPC as a partner if you made the "bad" choice at the end.

    Hated *WITH A PASSION* that STOOPID turret minigame. I hope they spanked the
    idiot who put that in with an extra-charged double-bladed lightsaber. I
    understand all minigames are optional in the sequel, though.

    Loved the [cough, cough] NO INTERNET REQUIREMENT.

    Hated Pazaak. Would have been ok if it was least a level playing field.


    Well... I liked it, I hated it. Think I'll wait and see on this one.


    >
    > http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/starwarsknightsoftheoldrepublic2
    >
    >
  9. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    SpammersDie wrote:
    > "OldDog" <OldDog@citypound.com> wrote in message
    > news:%SUOd.33354$uL5.21436@fe2.texas.rr.com...
    >
    >>"Stoned Monkey" <tenny2k@NOSPAMrtennant.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
    >>news:cugof2$bik$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
    >><snip>
    >>
    >>>>(Keep in mind the original KOTOR featured high quality stereo music,
    >>>>which makes this even weirder).
    >>>
    >>>yeah I read that in the pc gamer review thats a bugger, but apart from
    >>
    >>that
    >>
    >>>whats the game like and how does it compare to the original? no spoilers
    >>>please
    >>>
    >>
    >>
    >>I actually restarted the original game about 4 days ago. Half Life 2
    >>just
    >>ran out of steam for me. ;)
    >>
    >>From the few reviews that I've read, if you enjoyed the first game,
    >
    >
    > Liked the replayability.
    >
    > Hated the bugginess.
    >
    > Liked the story.
    >
    > Hated the uninterruptible cutscenes.
    >
    > Even liked the silly little NPC stories (but not the interrupt-driven way
    > you were alerted to them.)
    >
    > Hated the stupid little unpredictable banter between NPC's that broke
    > gameflow. I want to travel with helpful teammates, not timebombs, thank you.
    >
    > Liked being able to play a bad guy. Didn't like being forced to take a
    > particular NPC as a partner if you made the "bad" choice at the end.
    >
    > Hated *WITH A PASSION* that STOOPID turret minigame. I hope they spanked the
    > idiot who put that in with an extra-charged double-bladed lightsaber. I
    > understand all minigames are optional in the sequel, though.
    >
    > Loved the [cough, cough] NO INTERNET REQUIREMENT.
    >
    > Hated Pazaak. Would have been ok if it was least a level playing field.
    >
    >
    > Well... I liked it, I hated it. Think I'll wait and see on this one.
    >

    Funny. Most of the things you hated, I liked. ;)

    Not the bugginess of course, and sometimes I wanted to skip cutscenes
    I'd seen in a previous playthrough, but I DID like the banter between
    the NPC's because I didn't know they had anything to say initially. Even
    after playing KotOR a lot I'm sure there are still conversations I've
    missed because I hadn't tried taking certain combinations of NPC's out
    with me for long enough.

    The game has two different endings and ways to lead to those endings.
    The fact that the critical decision you make near the end of the game
    forces you to follow a different sequence of events should have been a
    highlight I'd have thought. The turrent minigame did get kinda annoying
    though, and I hear it's still in KotOR 2. Oh well.

    As for not needing the net, well, only Valve do things like that. ;)
  10. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    "GFree" <nickt4001@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
    news:420c22be$1@yorrell.saard.net...
    > SpammersDie wrote:
    >> "OldDog" <OldDog@citypound.com> wrote in message
    >> news:%SUOd.33354$uL5.21436@fe2.texas.rr.com...
    >>
    >>>"Stoned Monkey" <tenny2k@NOSPAMrtennant.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
    >>>news:cugof2$bik$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
    >>><snip>
    >>>
    >>>>>(Keep in mind the original KOTOR featured high quality stereo music,
    >>>>>which makes this even weirder).
    >>>>
    >>>>yeah I read that in the pc gamer review thats a bugger, but apart from
    >>>
    >>>that
    >>>
    >>>>whats the game like and how does it compare to the original? no spoilers
    >>>>please
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>I actually restarted the original game about 4 days ago. Half Life 2
    >>>just
    >>>ran out of steam for me. ;)
    >>>
    >>>From the few reviews that I've read, if you enjoyed the first game,
    >>
    >>
    >> Liked the replayability.
    >>
    >> Hated the bugginess.
    >>
    >> Liked the story.
    >>
    >> Hated the uninterruptible cutscenes.
    >>
    >> Even liked the silly little NPC stories (but not the interrupt-driven way
    >> you were alerted to them.)
    >>
    >> Hated the stupid little unpredictable banter between NPC's that broke
    >> gameflow. I want to travel with helpful teammates, not timebombs, thank
    >> you.
    >>
    >> Liked being able to play a bad guy. Didn't like being forced to take a
    >> particular NPC as a partner if you made the "bad" choice at the end.
    >>
    >> Hated *WITH A PASSION* that STOOPID turret minigame. I hope they spanked
    >> the idiot who put that in with an extra-charged double-bladed lightsaber.
    >> I understand all minigames are optional in the sequel, though.
    >>
    >> Loved the [cough, cough] NO INTERNET REQUIREMENT.
    >>
    >> Hated Pazaak. Would have been ok if it was least a level playing field.
    >>
    >>
    >> Well... I liked it, I hated it. Think I'll wait and see on this one.
    >>
    >
    > Funny. Most of the things you hated, I liked. ;)
    >
    > Not the bugginess of course, and sometimes I wanted to skip cutscenes I'd
    > seen in a previous playthrough, but I DID like the banter between the
    > NPC's because I didn't know they had anything to say initially. Even after
    > playing KotOR a lot I'm sure there are still conversations I've missed
    > because I hadn't tried taking certain combinations of NPC's out with me
    > for long enough.

    [Gonna add spoiler warnings for KOTOR 1 now so I can talk more
    specifically...]

    It's not the banter so much as the fact that you have no control over its
    timing. I'm a control freak when I play games, see...


    > The game has two different endings and ways to lead to those endings. The
    > fact that the critical decision you make near the end of the game forces
    > you to follow a different sequence of events should have been a highlight
    > I'd have thought.

    Oh I agree, but my beef isn't with the fact that the plot forks, it's about
    the way it unfolds for the bad guy. If you make the "evil" choice, you're
    forced to have Bastilla in your party during the SF sequence (and it's not
    even the same Bastilla that you built up! Her powers and stats are all
    reset.) You can't ditch her, you can't leave without her, you can't betray
    and kill her, even though any of those things would be consistent with my
    character. And even worse, you lose half the other party members, although
    that's admittedly pretty logical given the choice you made. Still that goes
    against the whole idea of an RPG and it's just way too high a price to pay,
    especially since badness is supposed to be a legitimate choice in this game.

    So all too frequently, I end up playing the bad guy all the way to that
    choice point, then gritting my teeth and taking the "good" choice and taking
    the huge lightside penalty that comes with it just so I can finish the game
    with the same party members and combat style that I've chosen for the other
    90% of the game.


    > As for not needing the net, well, only Valve do things like that. ;)

    We hope...
  11. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    SpammersDie wrote:
    >
    > [Gonna add spoiler warnings for KOTOR 1 now so I can talk more
    > specifically...]
    >
    > It's not the banter so much as the fact that you have no control over its
    > timing. I'm a control freak when I play games, see...
    >

    Fair enough. One of the reasons I like the suddenness though is that if
    you're running around, going from one place to another, that takes time,
    and so if the game throws in this sudden banter without warning it
    breaks the monotony and adds a little life to the setting.

    >
    >>The game has two different endings and ways to lead to those endings. The
    >>fact that the critical decision you make near the end of the game forces
    >>you to follow a different sequence of events should have been a highlight
    >>I'd have thought.
    >
    >
    > Oh I agree, but my beef isn't with the fact that the plot forks, it's about
    > the way it unfolds for the bad guy. If you make the "evil" choice, you're
    > forced to have Bastilla in your party during the SF sequence (and it's not
    > even the same Bastilla that you built up! Her powers and stats are all
    > reset.) You can't ditch her, you can't leave without her, you can't betray
    > and kill her, even though any of those things would be consistent with my
    > character. And even worse, you lose half the other party members, although
    > that's admittedly pretty logical given the choice you made. Still that goes
    > against the whole idea of an RPG and it's just way too high a price to pay,
    > especially since badness is supposed to be a legitimate choice in this game.
    >
    > So all too frequently, I end up playing the bad guy all the way to that
    > choice point, then gritting my teeth and taking the "good" choice and taking
    > the huge lightside penalty that comes with it just so I can finish the game
    > with the same party members and combat style that I've chosen for the other
    > 90% of the game.
    >

    Point taken. Perhaps KotOR 2 will be different, I have yet to find out.

    >
    >>As for not needing the net, well, only Valve do things like that. ;)
    >
    >
    > We hope...
    >

    I have heard of other developers supposedly having an interest in Steam,
    so...
  12. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 20:21:34 GMT, shadows <shadows@whitefang.com>
    wrote:

    >["Followup-To:" header set to comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg.]
    >On 2005-02-10, arcanastream@yahoo.com <arcanastream@yahoo.com> wrote:
    >> I just bought Knights of the Old Republic 2 (PC) and discovered all
    >> in-game music is low res mono! As near as I can tell from using
    >> Soundforge, the music files are all 22Hz, 8-bit mono instead of 44Hz,
    >> 16-bit stereo, which makes very muddled, low-grade quality.
    >>
    >> The difference is VERY noticeable to anybody who appreciates music, and
    >> especially anybody who appreciates the Star Wars music. The only time
    >> the quality is high is the main title crawl (Star Wars fanfare) in the
    >> very beginning. After that, it's mono city.
    >
    >What about the voice and sound files? I think there's a lot of
    >voice acting in KOTOR2. Maybe more than the first so to get it to
    >fit on 4 CDs they had to lower the quality of music to make it
    >all fit.
    >
    >It is too bad though :|
    >


    LucasArts probably ' forgot ' that most modern PCs in the United
    States have DVD-roms.

    Obsidian probably did as they were told by the distributors in terms
    of compression for US distribution.

    The European release of Kotor2(PC) will probably be on DVD-rom with
    full-bandwidth music.... grrrrrrrrrr...... Far Cry was distributed in
    Europe on DVD; at least in the US, Ubisoft used sufficient number of
    CDs for the game content not to suffer any quality loss.

    John Lewis
  13. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    In comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg SpammersDie <xx@xx.xx> wrote:

    [when choosing the dark side]
    >
    > And even worse, you lose half the other party members, although
    > that's admittedly pretty logical given the choice you made. Still that goes
    > against the whole idea of an RPG and it's just way too high a price to pay,
    > especially since badness is supposed to be a legitimate choice in this game.

    Why would this go against the whole idea of an RPG? In a real RPG, NPCs
    should have their own goals and motivations, and if they disagree with
    what you're doing, it makes sense that they leave, or even try to stop
    you. In too many CRPGs, they are loyal to the end, no matter what you do.

    It would have been nice if there had been some potential party members
    that would only follow you if you choose the dark side, though. Or maybe
    they stay when you choose the light side, but they're more trouble than
    they're worth, while they'd really shine if you choose the dark side.
    Something like that.


    mcv.
  14. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    "mcv" <mcvmcv@xs3.xs4all.nl> wrote in message
    news:420c88e9$0$28976$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl...
    > In comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg SpammersDie <xx@xx.xx> wrote:
    >
    > [when choosing the dark side]
    >>
    >> And even worse, you lose half the other party members, although
    >> that's admittedly pretty logical given the choice you made. Still that
    >> goes
    >> against the whole idea of an RPG and it's just way too high a price to
    >> pay,
    >> especially since badness is supposed to be a legitimate choice in this
    >> game.
    >
    > Why would this go against the whole idea of an RPG? In a real RPG, NPCs
    > should have their own goals and motivations, and if they disagree with
    > what you're doing, it makes sense that they leave, or even try to stop
    > you.

    Sure but in a real RPG, I could also backstab them before they try to stop
    me or extort them into helping me or for that matter, why even let them know
    I've gone bad - they didn't witness what happened at the temple roof. But
    with KOTOR, you can't even attack your enemies until they give you
    permission by turning "red" let alone explore options like that - there's
    got to be some give and take for that.

    Anyway, the thing I was getting at with the "go against the whole idea" was
    that much of the fun of CRPGs comes from customizing the character's feats
    and powers the way *you* want, and then testing your builds against the
    enemies. You can choose to be an upclose saber-wielding melee monster, you
    can be a scary dark mage, you can even build a team of Han Solo blaster
    marksmen (despite what everyone says about how weak KOTOR ranged weapons
    are) Here, you're suddenly stuck with a mandatory team member that's already
    at level 18 with feats and powers that Bioware (not you) chose and if
    neither HK nor Canderous fit your chosen play style (or T3 but who would
    take him onto the SF :), you're hosed. Suddenly for the last and most
    difficult segment of the game, you have to change your style of play
    radically unless your own character is self-sufficient - except whoops, you
    don't even have the option to go solo.

    That's too severe a consequence, in my book.


    >In too many CRPGs, they are loyal to the end, no matter what you do.
    >
    > It would have been nice if there had been some potential party members
    > that would only follow you if you choose the dark side, though. Or maybe
    > they stay when you choose the light side, but they're more trouble than
    > they're worth, while they'd really shine if you choose the dark side.

    Actually, Bastilla on the SF is "more trouble than they're worth" ; unwanted
    team members can be as much a liability as an asset at that part of game,
    thanks to all the trapped floor tiles that spawn new enemies.

    The problem is that (1) my character had no need for Bastilla at that point.
    (Why did I need to kill Malak myself if the Republic fleet could just do the
    job for me?) (2) my character couldn't kill her or leave her behind, again
    not because of my choices, but because the game forces it. That doesn't feel
    like roleplaying.
  15. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    "SpammersDie" <xx@xx.xx> wrote in message
    news:DfVOd.189042$w62.121549@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

    <snip>

    >
    > Loved the [cough, cough] NO INTERNET REQUIREMENT.
    >
    > Hated Pazaak. Would have been ok if it was least a level playing field.
    >
    >
    > Well... I liked it, I hated it. Think I'll wait and see on this one.
    >

    I liked two of the weapons in this game. The gravity gun has to be my fav.
    Picking up things and tossing them around was pretty cool ... but you can
    only do this for so long until you realize that you want to pick up even
    bigger things and toss them around, but can't. :(

    The other weapon was the one where you could pick up saw blades and fire
    them at the enemy heads and cut them off. But for some reason, this was
    only used on one level (as far as I can remember).
  16. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    >
    > The only reason why they wouldn't fit your play style, would be if you
    > want to do only melee combat, in which case you can take Big Z with you.

    I don't think Big Z can be a member of your party if you take the dark path.
    But usually, if I need an extra melee monster, Canderous is my choice for
    that anyway. His stats are better suited towards melee combat despite
    starting with a heavy blaster.


    >
    >> Suddenly for the last and most
    >> difficult segment of the game, you have to change your style of play
    >> radically unless your own character is self-sufficient - except whoops,
    >> you
    >> don't even have the option to go solo.
    >
    > You're a Jedi. How can you not be self-sufficient?

    In most builds, I am. If I'm playing some particularly unusual challenge
    game, e.g. pure spell caster, no physical weapons, I like to have Jolee
    around as a backup spellcaster. Or heck sometimes, I like to shun Jedi
    powers altogether and beat the game with conventional weapons only just to
    show those stuck up Jedi that us non-Jedi should not be underestimated.


    >> The problem is that (1) my character had no need for Bastilla at that
    >> point.
    >> (Why did I need to kill Malak myself if the Republic fleet could just do
    >> the
    >> job for me?) (2) my character couldn't kill her or leave her behind,
    >> again
    >> not because of my choices, but because the game forces it. That doesn't
    >> feel
    >> like roleplaying.
    >
    > Was it really impossible to play without party members? At the very least,
    > you could simply get her killed, right?

    You can't not have her in the party during the SF, yes. (Believe me, I have
    tried.)

    Getting her killed is probably the best available solution here - you'll
    have to do it several times since she'll awaken every time there's a lull in
    combat and it'll mean some extra management to keep her from running ahead
    and activating the next enemy spawn.
  17. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    ["Followup-To:" header set to comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg.]
    On 2005-02-12, mcv <mcvmcv@xs2.xs4all.nl> wrote:

    > That's a good point. You can't talk to hostile enemies, and you can't
    > attack friendly people. I can see why, from a play balance point of view,
    > but if you could have that freedom without losing play balance, that'd
    > be a lot better.

    Remember Arcanum? You could enter any city and slaughter
    everyone. Then pick up the item which leads you onto the next
    quest. Pretty boring.

    I think the KOTOR series strikes the correct balance in this
    regard.
  18. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    "shadows" <shadows@whitefang.com> wrote in message
    news:slrnd0sn9q.19lv.shadows@helena.whitefang.com...
    > ["Followup-To:" header set to comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg.]
    > On 2005-02-12, mcv <mcvmcv@xs2.xs4all.nl> wrote:
    >
    >> That's a good point. You can't talk to hostile enemies, and you can't
    >> attack friendly people. I can see why, from a play balance point of view,
    >> but if you could have that freedom without losing play balance, that'd
    >> be a lot better.
    >
    > Remember Arcanum? You could enter any city and slaughter
    > everyone. Then pick up the item which leads you onto the next
    > quest. Pretty boring.

    Yeah, that's pretty lame. But...

    >
    > I think the KOTOR series strikes the correct balance in this
    > regard.

    Where KOTOR abused the privilege is when NPC's that are irredeemably enemies
    are still marked as friendly just so you can't attack them until you get
    near enough to trigger a cinematic so they can say marvelously plot-critical
    lines like "Darth Malak was very displeased to hear of your escape from
    Taris." Meantime, the game grabs control of your character so he's forced to
    sit there like a log listening to his enemy taunt instead of doing something
    useful (like um, attacking). Also the game repositions all your party
    members (into usually bad tactical positions) and the game is in full close
    combat mode as soon as you get control back. I actually forgot to list this
    as one on my cons on my original list - KOTOR AI's uses cinematics as
    weapons throughout the game and that's just wrong. If you must use
    cutscenes, they should be used only to impart truly critical plot
    information and never interfere with your PC's ability to defend himself.
  19. Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

    On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 22:57:12 GMT, "OldDog" <OldDog@citypound.com>
    wrote:

    >
    >"SpammersDie" <xx@xx.xx> wrote in message
    >news:DfVOd.189042$w62.121549@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
    >
    ><snip>
    >
    >>
    >> Loved the [cough, cough] NO INTERNET REQUIREMENT.
    >>
    >> Hated Pazaak. Would have been ok if it was least a level playing field.
    >>
    >>
    >> Well... I liked it, I hated it. Think I'll wait and see on this one.
    >>
    >
    >I liked two of the weapons in this game. The gravity gun has to be my fav.
    >Picking up things and tossing them around was pretty cool ... but you can
    >only do this for so long until you realize that you want to pick up even
    >bigger things and toss them around, but can't. :(
    >
    >The other weapon was the one where you could pick up saw blades and fire
    >them at the enemy heads and cut them off. But for some reason, this was
    >only used on one level (as far as I can remember).

    There's a KOTOR2 mod for Half Life 2?
Ask a new question

Read More

PC gaming Music Games IBM Video Games