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ADVICE NEEDED What Tech Gear Can I Get to Allow Me To Atte..

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August 10, 2004 4:07:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hello, I would appreciate advice on what pro gear I could purchase
that would attempt to substitute for my total lack of natural singing
talent and ability, no kidding, I am horrible. I always wanted to
sing, but cannot really. I play guitar okay, but never was allowed to
sing in any band I played with for good reason, I'm horrible. I do
know technology miracles are impossible, but I want to make the best
of the worst so to speak by using the best technology available that I
can learn to understand.

Okay, with the above said I realize I will never sing professionally,
but I would like to just have some fun at home as I no longer play
professionally and just poorly attempt to sing at home with some
musician friends and a few beers. I am told my singing gets better
after my friends have a few beers, not me.

I don't know all the tech gear available today new or used that may
help my SORRY condition. I imagine Nancy Sinatra or Bob Dylan could
have well used such gear back in the 1960's if it was available, which
I doubt.

What I want to do

1 Sing in key

2 Find something to thicken my weak voice and give the impression of
it being stonger.

3. Enhance my voice

4. Possibly change my voice to sound roughly like some well known
singers for special fx if possible

5 Add the warm, rich qualities to my voice that many good rock singers
possess, such as a nice tone or sound, etc. Hey I don't know how to
describe it technically.

6. Would like to add harmony capabilities.

7. I will buy one more signal processors if need be that have a lot of
pre-programmed decent pre sets for a single lead voice to give the
voice different qualities, until I get the hang of programming it.

8. Also, a signal processor that has a lot of decent pre sets for
harmonies as well until I get the hang of programming it.

Okay, I've looked at gear like the TC Helicon VoiceLive unit and TC
Helicon VoiceWorks unit. I don't know if these are good units or not,
as I've never tried one. I don't know if these units have all the
capabilities that I need to attempt to lessen my sad horrible voice.
I have heard of Eventide, but the company brochures do not put it in
simple language that I can understand that addresses what I want to
do. It's nice if you are a great singer and this gear just makes you
better, but I obviously don't fit in that category.

Any new or good used gear buys that you could recommend would be
helpful as I know zero about this signal processor stuff, but I always
wanted to try and so this posting for advice, which IS APPRECIATED.

Thanks for your help!
Mack
Anonymous
August 10, 2004 7:16:02 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Mack <bigmack_usa@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Hello, I would appreciate advice on what pro gear I could purchase
>that would attempt to substitute for my total lack of natural singing
>talent and ability, no kidding, I am horrible. I always wanted to
>sing, but cannot really. I play guitar okay, but never was allowed to
>sing in any band I played with for good reason, I'm horrible. I do
>know technology miracles are impossible, but I want to make the best
>of the worst so to speak by using the best technology available that I
>can learn to understand.

Find a voice coach. No joke. Not that technology is not a good thing
especially in that it will allow you to record yourself and listen, but
honestly you will be amazed at what a coach can do in a fairly short
amount of time, specially if you have trouble being on-key.

>Okay, with the above said I realize I will never sing professionally,
>but I would like to just have some fun at home as I no longer play
>professionally and just poorly attempt to sing at home with some
>musician friends and a few beers. I am told my singing gets better
>after my friends have a few beers, not me.

There's a guy that is on the local folk circuit who is a pretty good
pianist, and whose voice used to just make me cringe. All sorts of
different voice control problems, just beginning with pitch issue. He
found a good coach and within about six months it was like a totally
different person. He'll never be a great singer, but he can sing and
people sing along rather than cowering in fear now. If you live in the
Washington DC area, I can pass along a pointer to his coach.

>Okay, I've looked at gear like the TC Helicon VoiceLive unit and TC
>Helicon VoiceWorks unit. I don't know if these are good units or not,
>as I've never tried one. I don't know if these units have all the
>capabilities that I need to attempt to lessen my sad horrible voice.
>I have heard of Eventide, but the company brochures do not put it in
>simple language that I can understand that addresses what I want to
>do. It's nice if you are a great singer and this gear just makes you
>better, but I obviously don't fit in that category.

These systems are useful to fix the occasional vocal flub, and they
are recommended for that sort of work. But they cannot take a bad singer
and make him sound like a good one. A couple hours a week with a voice
coach can, though.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
Anonymous
August 10, 2004 7:16:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Mack" <bigmack_usa@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:16e50353.0408101107.14c152ee@posting.google.com...
> Hello, I would appreciate advice on what pro gear I could purchase
> that would attempt to substitute for my total lack of natural singing
> talent and ability, no kidding, I am horrible. I always wanted to
> sing, but cannot really. I play guitar okay, but never was allowed to
> sing in any band I played with for good reason, I'm horrible. I do
> know technology miracles are impossible, but I want to make the best
> of the worst so to speak by using the best technology available that I
> can learn to understand.

You'd probably be better off spending the money on lessons from
a good voice teacher.

Hal Laurent
Baltimore
Related resources
August 10, 2004 11:39:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

from on horrible singer to another I suggest
> What I want to do
>
> 1 Sing in key
find your natural key and sing and play in it, choose song with very
little range
>
> 2 Find something to thicken my weak voice and give the impression of
> it being stonger.

sm58 with your lips touching it at all times
>
> 3. Enhance my voice

a little reverb, chorus, delay
>
> 4. Possibly change my voice to sound roughly like some well known
> singers for special fx if possible

not a acceptable option
>
> 5 Add the warm, rich qualities to my voice that many good rock singers
> possess, such as a nice tone or sound, etc. Hey I don't know how to
> describe it technically.

years of voice training
>
> 6. Would like to add harmony capabilities.

you sing the basic melody let other add harmony

george
Anonymous
August 11, 2004 1:17:50 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 10 Aug 2004 12:07:39 -0700, bigmack_usa@yahoo.com (Mack) wrote:

>What I want to do
>
>1 Sing in key

Take singing lessons, practice.

>
>2 Find something to thicken my weak voice and give the impression of
>it being stonger.

As above. Also, sing close to a mic with midrange boost and proximity
effect - e.g. the ubiquitous SM58

>
>3. Enhance my voice

As above


>
>4. Possibly change my voice to sound roughly like some well known
>singers for special fx if possible

Forget it.

>
>5 Add the warm, rich qualities to my voice that many good rock singers
>possess, such as a nice tone or sound, etc. Hey I don't know how to
>describe it technically.
>
As above.

etc. etc.


A few of us are born with a natural voice,. For the rest of us, the
route to good singing involves study and practice.

You didn't really think there was a "quick fix" did you? :-)


CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect
Anonymous
August 11, 2004 1:26:20 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 10 Aug 2004 12:07:39 -0700, Mack <bigmack_usa@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hello, I would appreciate advice on what pro gear I could purchase
> that would attempt to substitute for my total lack of natural singing
> talent and ability, no kidding, I am horrible. I always wanted to
> sing, but cannot really. I play guitar okay, but never was allowed to
> sing in any band I played with for good reason, I'm horrible. I do
> know technology miracles are impossible, but I want to make the best
> of the worst so to speak by using the best technology available that I
> can learn to understand.
>

Get a good voice teacher. Get an "Accurate enough" cassette deck.

There's a set of fundamentals that have to be in place, just like for
any instrument.

Everything else is affectation--"Your Sound" is something atop a base of
good sound.

The key is learning how to sing without trashing your voice, so you can
do it again tommorrow in another smoke-filled room.
Anonymous
August 11, 2004 2:39:56 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
news:cfb6ti$prl$1@panix2.panix.com...
> He'll never be a great singer, but he can sing and
> people sing along rather than cowering in fear now.

LOL
Anonymous
August 11, 2004 5:40:14 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Mack" <bigmack_usa@yahoo.com> wrote in message ...

> What I want to do
>
> 1 Sing in key
>
> 2 Find something to thicken my weak voice and give the impression of
> it being stonger.
>
> 3. Enhance my voice
>
> 4. Possibly change my voice to sound roughly like some well known
> singers for special fx if possible
>
> 5 Add the warm, rich qualities to my voice that many good rock singers
> possess, such as a nice tone or sound, etc. Hey I don't know how to
> describe it technically.
>
> 6. Would like to add harmony capabilities.

Mack,

Machinery and technical 'wizardry' (gear) will do none of this with the
possible exception of items one and six. The thought that the need for
items one and six exists *at all* in order to replace genuine 'talent' is
somewhat reprehensible to some.

I'm big on recording music students... young ones... as a result of my
affiliation with a local school in the DISD. These are semi-classroom
situations wherein advanced students and ensembles get to come
out into the real world and record. Before they can do this, I can assure
you that they have paid *dearly* in time and devotion to rehearsal of their
chosen interest.

What you're asking for here simply *must* begin with raw talent or a
very sincere desire to actually practice and refine what it is that you
choose to do.

As an analogy, you can't become a cardiologist simply because technology
has advanced to the point where hooking up enough electrodes to the patient
can practically diagnose their problem to anyone who understands the
readouts. When I was in the military I had what's called a 'Turnup & Taxi'
license... which means that I had to go to school to learn what every little
instrument in the cockpit of a jet fighter stood for (that was my 'gig' anyway),
so that I could actually start the jet engines and taxi the aircraft to various
places. I spent enough time in a flight simulator and strolling around taxi-ways
to be almost certain that I could actually take the darned aircraft aloft any time
I felt like hitting the main runway and pushing the throttle forward. All of that
electronics experience & cockpit knowledge however, did *not* make me a
pilot - in the same respect that mere electronics will not make one a singer.


> 7. I will buy one more signal processors if need be that have a lot of
> pre-programmed decent pre sets for a single lead voice to give the
> voice different qualities, until I get the hang of programming it.
>
> 8. Also, a signal processor that has a lot of decent pre sets for
> harmonies as well until I get the hang of programming it.

I can only agree with what almost everyone else has stated... spend the
money on vocal lessons and the rest will come easily. Even the best
electronic equipment cannot truthfully 'make' a singer of a non-singer.

> It's nice if you are a great singer and this gear just makes you
> better, but I obviously don't fit in that category.

If you're a great singer, you'll fight the use of such gear as it would
probably then seem more or less offensive to you.

> but I always
> wanted to try and so this posting for advice, which IS APPRECIATED.

I promise I'm not being denegrating, but if you *want* to try, then that *is*
what you have to do. Buying all of the electronic 'crutches' you wish will
not replace what you can do with your heart's desire driving you to refine
a natural ability.

--
David Morgan (MAMS)
http://www.m-a-m-s DOT com
Morgan Audio Media Service
Dallas, Texas (214) 662-9901
_______________________________________
http://www.artisan-recordingstudio.com
Anonymous
August 11, 2004 9:59:32 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

What everybody said about going to a vocal coach. But one thing to add: If,
after doing that for a long enough time that people no longer cringe when
you sing, you're still interested in adding the ability to sing harmony (and
make up your own harmonies), check out:

HARMONY VOCALS - THE ESSENTIAL GUIDE by Mike Campbell & Tracee Lewis

LEARN TO SING HARMONY: FOR DUET, TRIO, AND QUARTET SINGING taught by Cathy
Fink, Marcy Marxer, and Robin and Linda Williams

The latter book is more oriented toward folk and bluegrass performers; the
former includes pop, rock, blues, funk, soul, & country styles. Like I said,
*after* you've learned to sing decently.

Get thee to a vocal coach -- go!

Peace,
Paul
Anonymous
August 26, 2004 7:38:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Mack,

I am also in the process of checking out VoiceLive and VoiceWorks. Like
all the other responses recommended, I did invest 18 months and over $3000
in vocal coaching with an instructor who works with major label platinum
acts. He has also recorded and performed internationally with top
performers. Despite his credentials and great approach (and being a great
guy), I made only marginal progress during that time and continue to have
problems with both pitch and tone.

I have been a songwriter for over 30 years and would love to and "singer"
to that description, but I still don't have a performance level voice. In
my home studio I comp several vocal tracks together to get a "passable"
vocal, but still lack the chops to deliver a decent live performance.

I can understand your frustration and why you're considering technology as
a possible solution. The reality is that (at least for me) it's so much
harder to learn to sing that it was to learn how to play the guitar. You
would probably benefit from some lessons, but don't expect too much.

I'm pretty close to buying the VoiceLive pedal. Once I've had a chance to
try it out, I'll let you know what I think. If you get any additional
info, I would appreciate hearing from you as well.

Bill
Anonymous
August 26, 2004 7:39:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Mack,

I am also in the process of checking out VoiceLive and VoiceWorks. Like
all the other responses recommended, I did invest 18 months and over $3000
in vocal coaching with an instructor who works with major label platinum
acts. He has also recorded and performed internationally with top
performers. Despite his credentials and great approach (and being a great
guy), I made only marginal progress during that time and continue to have
problems with both pitch and tone.

I have been a songwriter for over 30 years and would love to and "singer"
to that description, but I still don't have a performance level voice. In
my home studio I comp several vocal tracks together to get a "passable"
vocal, but still lack the chops to deliver a decent live performance.

I can understand your frustration and why you're considering technology as
a possible solution. The reality is that (at least for me) it's so much
harder to learn to sing that it was to learn how to play the guitar. You
would probably benefit from some lessons, but don't expect too much.

I'm pretty close to buying the VoiceLive pedal. Once I've had a chance to
try it out, I'll let you know what I think. If you get any additional
info, I would appreciate hearing from you as well.

Bill
!