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754 vs. 939 pin

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Anonymous
February 27, 2005 9:00:26 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

What's the difference between the Athlon 754-pin and 939-pin CPUs (ie.
architecture)? I just ordered a computer and spent extra for a 939-pin
motherboard to have "Hyper Transport Technology".

Jonah Falcon

More about : 754 939 pin

February 27, 2005 11:59:46 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Socket 939 has dual channel memory. 754 does not.

DaveL


"Jonah Falcon" <jonahnynla@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:_ldUd.8203$Ba3.6553@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> What's the difference between the Athlon 754-pin and 939-pin CPUs (ie.
> architecture)? I just ordered a computer and spent extra for a 939-pin
> motherboard to have "Hyper Transport Technology".
>
> Jonah Falcon
>
Anonymous
February 27, 2005 5:21:11 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Thusly "Jonah Falcon" <jonahnynla@mindspring.com> Spake Unto All:

>What's the difference between the Athlon 754-pin and 939-pin CPUs (ie.
>architecture)? I just ordered a computer and spent extra for a 939-pin
>motherboard to have "Hyper Transport Technology".

Apart from the socket?
The 939 socket supports dual channel memory access, which doesn't
really make much difference, so the main difference is that the 939
socket will be intentionally made obsolete by AMD somewhat later than
the 754 socket, and so be possible to upgrade somewhat longer.
I.e. AFAIK no 90nm 'winchester' cores will be made for the 754, and
you do want 90nm cores. Not all socket 939 Athlon64's have winchester
cores, though.

A fairly good but slightly out of date (it doesn't have the 90nm
Winchester cores) can be found here:
http://www.short-media.com/review.php?r=247
Related resources
Can't find your answer ? Ask !
Anonymous
February 27, 2005 10:37:20 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Jonah Falcon" <jonahnynla@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:_ldUd.8203$Ba3.6553@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> What's the difference between the Athlon 754-pin and 939-pin CPUs (ie.
> architecture)? I just ordered a computer and spent extra for a 939-pin
> motherboard to have "Hyper Transport Technology".
>
> Jonah Falcon
>
>

As others have pointed out, the 939 supports dual channel memory. Oh, and
you did order a 939 cpu to go with that 939 mb?

Toms Hardware site has a nice chart showing the AMD cpu specs
http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/20041221/images/cpu_ta...

Some info on AMD 939 cpus
http://www.sharkyextreme.com/hardware/cpu/article.php/3...
Anonymous
February 27, 2005 11:49:02 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"OldDog" <OldDog@city.pound> wrote in message
news:QjpUd.66206$cW2.56583@fe2.texas.rr.com...
>
> "Jonah Falcon" <jonahnynla@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:_ldUd.8203$Ba3.6553@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>> What's the difference between the Athlon 754-pin and 939-pin CPUs (ie.
>> architecture)? I just ordered a computer and spent extra for a 939-pin
>> motherboard to have "Hyper Transport Technology".
>>
>> Jonah Falcon
>>
>>
>
> As others have pointed out, the 939 supports dual channel memory. Oh,
> and
> you did order a 939 cpu to go with that 939 mb?

Of course. ;) 

939-pin GigaByte GA-K8NS-939 nForce3 Ultra Chipset AGP8X w/LAN,USB2,&Audio
on the motherboard, with the Athlon64 939-pin CPU. I got the 1024 MB
(512MBx2) PC3200 400MHz Dual Channel DDR memory to go with it.

To defray costs, I only got a Geforce-FX 5500 256MB DDR --- I have a better
videocard, and just going to swap them between computers (the 5500 goes to
the older CPU, the Geforce 6800 GT 256MB AGP8X goes to the new one.)

Jonah Falcon
February 27, 2005 11:49:03 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Jonah Falcon" <jonahnynla@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:2nqUd.1544$wy3.881@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>
> "OldDog" <OldDog@city.pound> wrote in message
> news:QjpUd.66206$cW2.56583@fe2.texas.rr.com...
>>
>> "Jonah Falcon" <jonahnynla@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>> news:_ldUd.8203$Ba3.6553@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>>> What's the difference between the Athlon 754-pin and 939-pin CPUs (ie.
>>> architecture)? I just ordered a computer and spent extra for a 939-pin
>>> motherboard to have "Hyper Transport Technology".
>>>
>>> Jonah Falcon
>>>
>>>
>>
>> As others have pointed out, the 939 supports dual channel memory. Oh,
>> and
>> you did order a 939 cpu to go with that 939 mb?
>
> Of course. ;) 
>
> 939-pin GigaByte GA-K8NS-939 nForce3 Ultra Chipset AGP8X w/LAN,USB2,&Audio
> on the motherboard, with the Athlon64 939-pin CPU. I got the 1024 MB
> (512MBx2) PC3200 400MHz Dual Channel DDR memory to go with it.
>
> To defray costs, I only got a Geforce-FX 5500 256MB DDR --- I have a
> better videocard, and just going to swap them between computers (the 5500
> goes to the older CPU, the Geforce 6800 GT 256MB AGP8X goes to the new
> one.)

Isn't it a little late in the game to go with AGP on a new system? I took
the plunge with PCI-E and nForce 4. And what CPU speed did you get?

turk
--
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and
more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day
the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the
White House will be adorned by a downright moron." - H. L. Mencken,
Baltimore Evening Sun on 26 July 1920
Anonymous
February 27, 2005 11:49:04 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"turk" <turk96@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:96Kdna615JDBo7_fRVn-jQ@comcast.com...

> Isn't it a little late in the game to go with AGP on a new system? I took
> the plunge with PCI-E and nForce 4. And what CPU speed did you get?

AGP is not even being maxed out yet. There is currently no benefit to PCIX
except more revenue for Intel. The video cards are also more expensive than
AGP.

You just can't change the standard overnight like Intel thinks they can do.
Anonymous
February 28, 2005 12:47:19 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"turk" <turk96@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:96Kdna615JDBo7_fRVn-jQ@comcast.com...
> "Jonah Falcon" <jonahnynla@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:2nqUd.1544$wy3.881@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>>
>> "OldDog" <OldDog@city.pound> wrote in message
>> news:QjpUd.66206$cW2.56583@fe2.texas.rr.com...
>>>
>>> "Jonah Falcon" <jonahnynla@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>>> news:_ldUd.8203$Ba3.6553@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>>>> What's the difference between the Athlon 754-pin and 939-pin CPUs (ie.
>>>> architecture)? I just ordered a computer and spent extra for a 939-pin
>>>> motherboard to have "Hyper Transport Technology".
>>>>
>>>> Jonah Falcon
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> As others have pointed out, the 939 supports dual channel memory. Oh,
>>> and
>>> you did order a 939 cpu to go with that 939 mb?
>>
>> Of course. ;) 
>>
>> 939-pin GigaByte GA-K8NS-939 nForce3 Ultra Chipset AGP8X
>> w/LAN,USB2,&Audio on the motherboard, with the Athlon64 939-pin CPU. I
>> got the 1024 MB (512MBx2) PC3200 400MHz Dual Channel DDR memory to go
>> with it.
>>
>> To defray costs, I only got a Geforce-FX 5500 256MB DDR --- I have a
>> better videocard, and just going to swap them between computers (the 5500
>> goes to the older CPU, the Geforce 6800 GT 256MB AGP8X goes to the new
>> one.)
>
> Isn't it a little late in the game to go with AGP on a new system? I took
> the plunge with PCI-E and nForce 4. And what CPU speed did you get?

Only 3500. By the way, this system is only costing me $800. I'm on a budget,
ya know.

Jonah Falcon
February 28, 2005 1:05:29 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Thus spake "Jonah Falcon" <jonahnynla@mindspring.com>, Sun, 27 Feb 2005
06:00:26 GMT, Anno Domini:

>What's the difference between the Athlon 754-pin and 939-pin CPUs (ie.
>architecture)? I just ordered a computer and spent extra for a 939-pin
>motherboard to have "Hyper Transport Technology".
>
>Jonah Falcon

From what I've heard & read (+ benchmarks I've seen), a comparison of, for
example, the AMD 3400+ 754 pin slightly outdoes the 939 pin 3500+ in gaming
tests, though the 939 squeezes ahead in windows (non-graphically intensive)
tests. I'm getting a 3400+ this week actually >;-p

--
No matter how many times you save the world, it always manages to get back in jeopardy again.
Sometimes I just want it to stay saved! You know, for a little bit?
I feel like the maid; "I just cleaned up this mess! Can we keep it clean for... for ten minutes!"

Replace 'spamfree' with the other word for 'maze' to reply via email.
Anonymous
February 28, 2005 1:05:30 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Nostromo wrote:
> Thus spake "Jonah Falcon" <jonahnynla@mindspring.com>, Sun, 27 Feb 2005
> 06:00:26 GMT, Anno Domini:
>
>
>>What's the difference between the Athlon 754-pin and 939-pin CPUs (ie.
>>architecture)? I just ordered a computer and spent extra for a 939-pin
>>motherboard to have "Hyper Transport Technology".
>>
>>Jonah Falcon
>
>
> From what I've heard & read (+ benchmarks I've seen), a comparison of, for
> example, the AMD 3400+ 754 pin slightly outdoes the 939 pin 3500+ in gaming
> tests, though the 939 squeezes ahead in windows (non-graphically intensive)
> tests. I'm getting a 3400+ this week actually >;-p
>

Do you have a source for this "gaming" v "windows" test? Sounds strange.
Anonymous
February 28, 2005 1:07:19 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

PCI Express is on AMD boards as well, so it's not just Intel pushing it
(I have an AMD chip on a PCIE board on my new system). PCI Express may
not be much benefit now, but it will be in the near future. It's just
that considering the price difference is pretty small on the
motherboards, and the video cards are cheaper than their AGP
equivalents, I don't see any reason for going with AGP on a whole new
system. Pretty soon, AGP video cards will be rarer and much more
expensive than the PCI Express cards, not to mention obsolete. Already
ATI is not making some of their cards in AGP models.

turk
Anonymous
February 28, 2005 6:48:35 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

How did I pay too much now? My mobo was slightly more expensive with
PCI-E and my video card costs less than the same model in AGP. I might
have spent $20 more. Why wouldn't I choose PCI-E over AGP given almost
identical costs in an entirely new system? Check out some online
prices before you talk garbage. I'm not financing anything for you,
unless you're on welfare, which would mean you have bigger problems
than video card format.

turk
February 28, 2005 10:25:04 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Thus spake Walter Mitty <mitticus@yahoo.co.uk>, Sun, 27 Feb 2005 12:28:02
+0100, Anno Domini:

>Nostromo wrote:
>> Thus spake "Jonah Falcon" <jonahnynla@mindspring.com>, Sun, 27 Feb 2005
>> 06:00:26 GMT, Anno Domini:
>>
>>
>>>What's the difference between the Athlon 754-pin and 939-pin CPUs (ie.
>>>architecture)? I just ordered a computer and spent extra for a 939-pin
>>>motherboard to have "Hyper Transport Technology".
>>>
>>>Jonah Falcon
>>
>>
>> From what I've heard & read (+ benchmarks I've seen), a comparison of, for
>> example, the AMD 3400+ 754 pin slightly outdoes the 939 pin 3500+ in gaming
>> tests, though the 939 squeezes ahead in windows (non-graphically intensive)
>> tests. I'm getting a 3400+ this week actually >;-p
>>
>
>Do you have a source for this "gaming" v "windows" test? Sounds strange.

Yeah, but I don't think he'd like you Walter...;-p
Anonymous
February 28, 2005 10:59:09 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 06:00:26 GMT, "Jonah Falcon"
<jonahnynla@mindspring.com> wrote:

>What's the difference between the Athlon 754-pin and 939-pin CPUs (ie.
>architecture)? I just ordered a computer and spent extra for a 939-pin
>motherboard to have "Hyper Transport Technology".
>
>Jonah Falcon
>
>

939 is AMDs forseeable-future pin-out for desktop applications
both single and dual-core.

940-pin for server/pro applications, with ECC memory.

754 is dead-end.

The AMD desktop dual-core processors will only be available in
939-pin form and <will retrofit> into the current 939-socket boards
with just a BIOS change.

If you want maximum future-proofing in the AMD camp, you need
to seriously consider the following:-

939-pin PCIe SLI motherboard with nForce4 SLI chip-set, but
wait a few months for any silicon and BIOS changes to settle down
( including any required for dual-core) and prices to start leveling
out (steeply ramping down at the moment) on all elements- CPU,
MB, and PCIe video cards. About mid-Summer 2005 would
probably be optimum to lay out the bucks for a new system.
( AMD is due to be shipping dual-core beginning June 2005
and any system teething problems with single/dual-core MB
compatibility should have been ironed out )

BTW, remember that the MB SLI-capability does not have
to be used for SLI. How about 4-head video in non-SLI configuration ?
Or a single video card with the spare PCIe 8x slot for some future
very high-performance video-processing hardware - who knows....

The Intel camp is still in a horrid mess. The Intel 64-bit dual-core
processors will NOT retrofit in the current 775-pin motherboards,
and there is apparently no guarantee that the single-core
32/64 processors will fit in the future motherboards designed for
dual core. For current and immediate-future gaming applications,
dual-processors bring little benefit. However, having the
AMD-style flexibility of just swapping processors should one
want to rededicate a gaming machine to - say- desktop video
editing, where true dual-core brings enormous time-saving
benefit ( with 4-head output, too ) is sure a very highly
attractive piece of future-proofing.

nVidia is wisely holding off on releasing any Intel nForce
solution until Intel decides to stop screwing around with
64-bit paper releases.

John Lewis
Anonymous
February 28, 2005 12:31:39 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

<turk96@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:1109570839.149177.55110@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> PCI Express is on AMD boards as well, so it's not just Intel pushing it
> (I have an AMD chip on a PCIE board on my new system). PCI Express may
> not be much benefit now, but it will be in the near future. It's just
> that considering the price difference is pretty small on the
> motherboards, and the video cards are cheaper than their AGP
> equivalents, I don't see any reason for going with AGP on a whole new

PCIX cheaper than AGP cards? Every price comparison I've seen has PCIX cards
considerably more expensive than AGP cards.

> system. Pretty soon, AGP video cards will be rarer and much more

The transition from AGP to PCIX is terrible. There IS no transition, and
those that have both are hack boards. You can't just take AGP slots off the
boards overnight like they are trying to do.

> expensive than the PCI Express cards, not to mention obsolete. Already
> ATI is not making some of their cards in AGP models.

Which matters not to me since my next video card will not be an ATI.
Anonymous
February 28, 2005 2:28:08 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Sun, 27 Feb 2005, DaveL wrote:

> Socket 939 has dual channel memory. 754 does not.

It makes hardly a difference. There is a good comparison of current CPUs
on Anandtechs regarding Doom 3. Including AMD 939 versus AMD 754 socket.

--
Werner Spahl (spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de) Freedom for
"The meaning of my life is to make me crazy" Vorlonships
February 28, 2005 4:43:09 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

FYI, PCI-X is not the same as PCI-E. I've seen a lot of places use
them interchangably, but PCI-X is more or less just a souped up version
of PCI, wheras PCI-Express (PCI-E) has more fundamental changes.
February 28, 2005 5:57:34 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

<turk96@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:1109570839.149177.55110@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> system. Pretty soon, AGP video cards will be rarer and much more
> expensive than the PCI Express cards, not to mention obsolete.
> turk

Maybe he explicitly wanted Nvidia and it is hard to find 6800 GT PCI-E
cards.. Nvidia made a wrong call regarding PCI-E demand or so they say..
Anonymous
February 28, 2005 6:04:18 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Thusly john.dsl@verizon.net (John Lewis) Spake Unto All:

>939 is AMDs forseeable-future pin-out for desktop applications
>both single and dual-core.

I allow myself to be skeptical about that. AMD is very much into
planned obsolescense through socket change, and has a habit of not
informing anyone of changes until they're imminent, so I'm guessing
"the forseeable future" is one to two years.

>The AMD desktop dual-core processors will only be available in
>939-pin form and <will retrofit> into the current 939-socket boards
>with just a BIOS change.

Oh I'd like to believe that, it would thrill and surprise me if
there's not a big "BUT..." somewhere.
Like that those processors require more juice, or less juice, or don't
support present-gen memory controllers. Something, *anything*, that
mean they can not be used with present motherboards (or at least are
severely crippled if they can).

I use and recommend AMD. I just don't like their tendency for secrecy
and the way they hinder upgrades by surprise-changing sockets at short
intervals.
February 28, 2005 6:04:19 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 15:04:18 +0100, Mean_Chlorine
<mike_noren2002@NOSPAMyahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>I use and recommend AMD. I just don't like their tendency for secrecy
>and the way they hinder upgrades by surprise-changing sockets at short
>intervals.

I haven't owned an Intel based machine for ages, but from what I
remember they weren't any better on that front. I think every
processor upgrade I have made has always had a corresponding mobo
upgrade along with it, I just look at the prospective CPU price and
add 100 pounds socket tax to it.
--
Andrew, contact via interpleb.blogspot.com
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim replies to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking an obvious question.
February 28, 2005 6:32:28 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Kroagnon" <kroagnon@kroagnon.com> wrote in message
news:1124vnkep8krt59@news.supernews.com...
> <snip> The video cards are also more expensive than
> AGP.
>

Not neccesarily. They should be the same price. But Nvidia has a way to
make a video chip work with either slot type. They use what's called a
bridge chip to convert one format to the other. So a native PCI-E chip card
is cheaper in PCI-E format. The addition of the bridge chip to make it work
with AGP adds about $20 to the cost of the card. If you need proof, do some
research on the 6600 line of Nvidia cards. The 6800 line is exactly the
opposite. They are native agp so the PCI-E versions do cost more. At this
time ATI does not have a bridge chip so cards are either AGP or PCI-E except
for the XT800 line for which they designed two chips, one for each format.

DaveL
February 28, 2005 6:40:32 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"John Lewis" <john.dsl@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:4222c604.25523842@news.verizon.net...
> On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 06:00:26 GMT, "Jonah Falcon"

> nVidia is wisely holding off on releasing any Intel nForce
> solution until Intel decides to stop screwing around with
> 64-bit paper releases.
>

Nvidia will introduce Nforce for Intel chips to the world tomorrow.
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050228/sfm045_1.html

DaveL
February 28, 2005 8:25:01 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Kroagnon" <kroagnon@kroagnon.com> wrote in message
news:1126e9j4deduq95@news.supernews.com...
>
> <turk96@attbi.com> wrote in message
> news:1109570839.149177.55110@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>> PCI Express is on AMD boards as well, so it's not just Intel pushing it
>> (I have an AMD chip on a PCIE board on my new system). PCI Express may
>> not be much benefit now, but it will be in the near future. It's just
>> that considering the price difference is pretty small on the
>> motherboards, and the video cards are cheaper than their AGP
>> equivalents, I don't see any reason for going with AGP on a whole new
>
> PCIX cheaper than AGP cards? Every price comparison I've seen has PCIX
> cards
> considerably more expensive than AGP cards.

What site? I'm going by newegg mostly, but I've seen a few more.

>> system. Pretty soon, AGP video cards will be rarer and much more
>
> The transition from AGP to PCIX is terrible. There IS no transition, and
> those that have both are hack boards. You can't just take AGP slots off
> the
> boards overnight like they are trying to do.

You mean there is no transition as in PCIE now exists? Yeah, I guess, there
is no hybrid AGP/PCIE motherboard that takes both that I know of. And if
there is a motherboard that does, it seems kind of stupid to me. Remember
PCI graphics cards? AGP didn't exactly tip-toe in the door. Not many
people bought an AGP motherboard with intentions to put a PCI video card in
it.

>> expensive than the PCI Express cards, not to mention obsolete. Already
>> ATI is not making some of their cards in AGP models.
>
> Which matters not to me since my next video card will not be an ATI.

I'm sure Nvidia will follow. Or will Nvidia take hold of the "two steps
behind owners" and sell them $50 video cards? You figure it out.

turk
--
"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and
more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day
the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the
White House will be adorned by a downright moron." - H. L. Mencken,
Baltimore Evening Sun on 26 July 1920
Anonymous
February 28, 2005 8:36:23 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Thusly "Kroagnon" <kroagnon@kroagnon.com> Spake Unto All:

>PCIX cheaper than AGP cards? Every price comparison I've seen has PCIX cards
>considerably more expensive than AGP cards.

Not true for the same card. E.g. ASUS Geforce 9600GT and 9800GT PCI-E
are cheaper than the AGP versions.
Anonymous
February 28, 2005 8:59:18 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 15:04:18 +0100, Mean_Chlorine
<mike_noren2002@NOSPAMyahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>Thusly john.dsl@verizon.net (John Lewis) Spake Unto All:
>
>>939 is AMDs forseeable-future pin-out for desktop applications
>>both single and dual-core.
>
>I allow myself to be skeptical about that. AMD is very much into
>planned obsolescense through socket change, and has a habit of not
>informing anyone of changes until they're imminent, so I'm guessing
>"the forseeable future" is one to two years.
>
>>The AMD desktop dual-core processors will only be available in
>>939-pin form and <will retrofit> into the current 939-socket boards
>>with just a BIOS change.
>
>Oh I'd like to believe that, it would thrill and surprise me if
>there's not a big "BUT..." somewhere.
>Like that those processors require more juice, or less juice, or don't
>support present-gen memory controllers.

AMD 64-bit has a built-in memory controller. The single reason for the
easy single/dual compatibility - to everything external, the processor
looks the same. A truly smart and forward-looking architectural
decision. Not so with Intel's external memory controllers - hence they
will need to update/kludge chip-sets if they want single/dual
compatibility on the same MB - and I have no idea whether that is
their intent with the 945 chip-set...........

>Something, *anything*, that
>mean they can not be used with present motherboards (or at least are
>severely crippled if they can).
>

Engineering samples of the AMD dual-core has already been tried out in
the Asus A8N-SLI. Works just fine, according to the reports. Built on
the 90nm process and run at a slightly-lower clock-rate than the
single-core; no problem with power/heat.

However, if you are an overclocker-- do not rush out and buy the
current A8N-SLI... see today's review by Anand on the current crop of
SLI motherboards.

>I use and recommend AMD. I just don't like their tendency for secrecy
>and the way they hinder upgrades by surprise-changing sockets at short
>intervals.
>

Have you observed Intel recently? Why shift from 478 to 775-pin at all
for the 32-bit single core, since they were planning for
near-simultaneous release of 64-bit and dual core. Why not delay
pin-out/MB gyrations until the full 64-bit release and architecture
full single-/dual-core/32-bit/64-bit compatibility into that
CPU-design, pin-out and associated chip-sets ?? Both the current
775-pin 32-bit Prescott and their 915/925 motherboards are soon-to-be
orphans, after far less than a year of production. Compare with the
life-time of the 478-pin P4 family and the associated chip-sets.

BTW, up to this point I have only had Intel processors in all my
machines and systems that I have built for others. However,
Intel's Prescott system-architectural and marketing stupidity plus
their arrogance with regard to the 64-bit roll-out, taken together
with AMDs faultless 64-bit execution in both desk-top and X86-servers
has made me ( like many others) actively consider the alternatives.

And on the server-side, I note Anand's glowing review of the
4x Opteron 3U-high baby-server from Sun --- into which
4 dual-core Opterons can be instantly swapped when they
are production-available.............hah !! At ~ $20,000
a pop with instant dual-core upgrade potential, Sun should
sell a whole lot of those..........

John Lewis.
Anonymous
February 28, 2005 9:30:08 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Andrew" <spamtrap@localhost.> wrote in message
news:2n962157uugv665f8h2fuqbilvhk7bn935@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 15:04:18 +0100, Mean_Chlorine
> <mike_noren2002@NOSPAMyahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>I use and recommend AMD. I just don't like their tendency for secrecy
>>and the way they hinder upgrades by surprise-changing sockets at short
>>intervals.
>
> I haven't owned an Intel based machine for ages, but from what I
> remember they weren't any better on that front. I think every
> processor upgrade I have made has always had a corresponding mobo
> upgrade along with it, I just look at the prospective CPU price and
> add 100 pounds socket tax to it.


This will be my first AMD computer. I've been high on AMD for a long while,
but never really had a chance to buy one til now.

Jonah Falcon
Anonymous
February 28, 2005 9:32:51 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

>
> 939-pin PCIe SLI motherboard with nForce4 SLI chip-set, but
> wait a few months for any silicon and BIOS changes to settle down
> ( including any required for dual-core) and prices to start leveling
> out (steeply ramping down at the moment) on all elements- CPU,
> MB, and PCIe video cards. About mid-Summer 2005 would
> probably be optimum to lay out the bucks for a new system.
> ( AMD is due to be shipping dual-core beginning June 2005
> and any system teething problems with single/dual-core MB
> compatibility should have been ironed out

Unfortunately, time is not an option. Right now, my other good computer is
shot to hell, and the one I'm using right now is an ancient Pentium 3 600mhz
computer that I use for email and writing scripts on Final Draft. Good for
Civilization III and Diablo II, but not much else. (laugh) Actually, it's
good enough to do City of Heroes and World of Warcraft on low res, but I no
longer play either.

Jonah Falcon
Anonymous
February 28, 2005 11:02:05 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"turk" <turk96@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:96Kdna615JDBo7_fRVn-jQ@comcast.com...
> "Jonah Falcon" <jonahnynla@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:2nqUd.1544$wy3.881@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>>
>> "OldDog" <OldDog@city.pound> wrote in message
>> news:QjpUd.66206$cW2.56583@fe2.texas.rr.com...
>>>
>>> "Jonah Falcon" <jonahnynla@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>>> news:_ldUd.8203$Ba3.6553@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>>>> What's the difference between the Athlon 754-pin and 939-pin CPUs (ie.
>>>> architecture)? I just ordered a computer and spent extra for a 939-pin
>>>> motherboard to have "Hyper Transport Technology".
>>>>
>>>> Jonah Falcon
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> As others have pointed out, the 939 supports dual channel memory. Oh,
>>> and
>>> you did order a 939 cpu to go with that 939 mb?
>>
>> Of course. ;) 
>>
>> 939-pin GigaByte GA-K8NS-939 nForce3 Ultra Chipset AGP8X
>> w/LAN,USB2,&Audio on the motherboard, with the Athlon64 939-pin CPU. I
>> got the 1024 MB (512MBx2) PC3200 400MHz Dual Channel DDR memory to go
>> with it.
>>
>> To defray costs, I only got a Geforce-FX 5500 256MB DDR --- I have a
>> better videocard, and just going to swap them between computers (the 5500
>> goes to the older CPU, the Geforce 6800 GT 256MB AGP8X goes to the new
>> one.)
>
> Isn't it a little late in the game to go with AGP on a new system? I took
> the plunge with PCI-E and nForce 4. And what CPU speed did you get?

LOL - You will have replaced your mobo before you get to experience the
"advantage" of PCI-E. BTW don't get me wrong. I really like people like you
because you finance my inexpensive hardware purchases in a few months time
by paying way too much now.
March 1, 2005 12:38:02 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Thus spake "Fred At Home" <fredathome@fscans.cjb.net>, Mon, 28 Feb 2005
20:02:05 +1100, Anno Domini:

>
>"turk" <turk96@comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:96Kdna615JDBo7_fRVn-jQ@comcast.com...
>> "Jonah Falcon" <jonahnynla@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>> news:2nqUd.1544$wy3.881@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>>>
>>> "OldDog" <OldDog@city.pound> wrote in message
>>> news:QjpUd.66206$cW2.56583@fe2.texas.rr.com...
>>>>
>>>> "Jonah Falcon" <jonahnynla@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:_ldUd.8203$Ba3.6553@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>>>>> What's the difference between the Athlon 754-pin and 939-pin CPUs (ie.
>>>>> architecture)? I just ordered a computer and spent extra for a 939-pin
>>>>> motherboard to have "Hyper Transport Technology".
>>>>>
>>>>> Jonah Falcon
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As others have pointed out, the 939 supports dual channel memory. Oh,
>>>> and
>>>> you did order a 939 cpu to go with that 939 mb?
>>>
>>> Of course. ;) 
>>>
>>> 939-pin GigaByte GA-K8NS-939 nForce3 Ultra Chipset AGP8X
>>> w/LAN,USB2,&Audio on the motherboard, with the Athlon64 939-pin CPU. I
>>> got the 1024 MB (512MBx2) PC3200 400MHz Dual Channel DDR memory to go
>>> with it.
>>>
>>> To defray costs, I only got a Geforce-FX 5500 256MB DDR --- I have a
>>> better videocard, and just going to swap them between computers (the 5500
>>> goes to the older CPU, the Geforce 6800 GT 256MB AGP8X goes to the new
>>> one.)
>>
>> Isn't it a little late in the game to go with AGP on a new system? I took
>> the plunge with PCI-E and nForce 4. And what CPU speed did you get?
>
>LOL - You will have replaced your mobo before you get to experience the
>"advantage" of PCI-E. BTW don't get me wrong. I really like people like you
>because you finance my inexpensive hardware purchases in a few months time
>by paying way too much now.
>

Ditto :) . I'm upgradin from a 1.4GHz 1600XP AMD (266MHz fsb) & a 9600 Pro to
a 754 pin 3400+ AMD & a X800 Pro. Now *that's* a midrange->midrange
sensible, value-for-money upgrade! Doesn't hurt that the company's footin
the bill either >;-)

--
Replace 'spamfree' with the other word for 'maze' to reply via email.
Anonymous
March 1, 2005 1:01:18 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Hi,

Kroagnon <kroagnon@kroagnon.com> wrote:
#AGP is not even being maxed out yet.

True enough.

#There is currently no benefit to PCIX except more revenue for Intel.
#The video cards are also more expensive than AGP.

If you're comparing PCI-X to AGP, sure, I guess they are more expensive,
but only some UNIX workstations and servers user PCI-X.

PCI-E cards of the new generation (NVIDIA 6xxx & ATi Xxxx) have been
cheaper in PCI-E than AGP, mainly because they were designed for PCI-E
from the beginning. There are also long-term production savings in using
high speed serial instead of parallel circuitry.

#You just can't change the standard overnight like Intel thinks they can do.

Sure you can, it just involves spending money.

Ken.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mail: kmarsh at charm dot net | Just say "no" to liars SCO and Soyo
WWW: http://www.charm.net/~kmarsh | Return services to local CIS offices!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anonymous
March 1, 2005 12:53:08 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"John Lewis" <john.dsl@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:42234a12.3340715@news.verizon.net...

> Have you observed Intel recently? Why shift from 478 to 775-pin at all
> for the 32-bit single core, since they were planning for
> near-simultaneous release of 64-bit and dual core. Why not delay
> pin-out/MB gyrations until the full 64-bit release and architecture
> full single-/dual-core/32-bit/64-bit compatibility into that
> CPU-design, pin-out and associated chip-sets ?? Both the current
> 775-pin 32-bit Prescott and their 915/925 motherboards are soon-to-be
> orphans, after far less than a year of production. Compare with the
> life-time of the 478-pin P4 family and the associated chip-sets.

I was very dissappointed with how Intel killed socket 478 CPUs within a
matter of weeks for the 775-pinless freak show. Had to upgrade a game server
machine and had no choice but to get one of these. Wanted a 3.4 socket 478
Northwood but had to get a 775 Prescott. Prescott is VERY hot. :( 

> BTW, up to this point I have only had Intel processors in all my
> machines and systems that I have built for others. However,
> Intel's Prescott system-architectural and marketing stupidity plus
> their arrogance with regard to the 64-bit roll-out, taken together
> with AMDs faultless 64-bit execution in both desk-top and X86-servers
> has made me ( like many others) actively consider the alternatives.

You should have considered the alternatives a long time ago: the Athlon64
has been faster than Intel's comparable for quite a long time now. The only
reason I didn't take the plunge when I upgraded last year was the lack of
proper NForce chipset support for the socket 939 CPUs, otherwise I would
have gone Athlon64. That is no longer an issue however.

> And on the server-side, I note Anand's glowing review of the
> 4x Opteron 3U-high baby-server from Sun --- into which
> 4 dual-core Opterons can be instantly swapped when they
> are production-available.............hah !! At ~ $20,000
> a pop with instant dual-core upgrade potential, Sun should
> sell a whole lot of those..........

Indeed... I have been using Intel P4s (non Xenon) for game servers for
awhile now but a dual core Opteron is making me take notice. Dual core AND
64-bits. That is gonna rock!
Anonymous
March 1, 2005 12:59:46 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Ken Marsh" <kmarsh@fellspt.charm.net> wrote in message
news:o wMUd.9$105.1269@news.abs.net...

> #There is currently no benefit to PCIX except more revenue for Intel.
> #The video cards are also more expensive than AGP.
>
> If you're comparing PCI-X to AGP, sure, I guess they are more expensive,
> but only some UNIX workstations and servers user PCI-X.

My mistake - the "X" I was referring to is just "Xpress". I had forgotton
about the 64-bit PCI standard called "PCIX".

> PCI-E cards of the new generation (NVIDIA 6xxx & ATi Xxxx) have been
> cheaper in PCI-E than AGP, mainly because they were designed for PCI-E
> from the beginning. There are also long-term production savings in using
> high speed serial instead of parallel circuitry.

No, PCI Express cards are much more expensive than their AGP counterparts.
I'm comparing stuff like the NVidia 6800GT 256MB with GDDR3. Look it up for
yourself. This will probably change in the future but for now is not the
reality.

The bottom line is that you can't just ignore the installed base of AGP.
Well you can, but you're going to lose business. I don't have a problem
upgrading my PC because I derive so much entertainment value from it but I
just upgraded my PC last April and I'll be damned if I'm going to upgrade it
again just because Intel wants to push PCIE. I think you'll find this to be
a common statement. So they will need another generation of AGP cards.
Anonymous
March 1, 2005 1:05:53 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"turk" <turk96@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:YbudnebmqvvTNb7fRVn-1w@comcast.com...
> > PCIX cheaper than AGP cards? Every price comparison I've seen has PCIX
> > cards
> > considerably more expensive than AGP cards.
> What site? I'm going by newegg mostly, but I've seen a few more.

Newegg seems to be fantastically overpriced on video cards right now. I'm
comparing on Pricewatch.com.

> > The transition from AGP to PCIX is terrible. There IS no transition, and
> > those that have both are hack boards. You can't just take AGP slots off
> > the
> > boards overnight like they are trying to do.
> You mean there is no transition as in PCIE now exists? Yeah, I guess,
there
> is no hybrid AGP/PCIE motherboard that takes both that I know of. And if
> there is a motherboard that does, it seems kind of stupid to me. Remember
> PCI graphics cards? AGP didn't exactly tip-toe in the door. Not many
> people bought an AGP motherboard with intentions to put a PCI video card
in
> it.

Yea, there are hybrid AGP and PCIE boards, but the one I saw had a warning
that said that AGP cards will have a "lesser life span" due to the voltage
issues. That raises a red flag for me. Clearly there is no support in the
standard to support AGP.

I mean these PCI Express boards support the original 32-bit PCI, so why not
support AGP? Just like PCI boards supported ISA for the longest time.
Anonymous
March 2, 2005 1:47:45 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

I'm changing the subject title because this has gone waaaaaaay beyond AMD
pin configs. lol

Jonah Falcon
Anonymous
March 2, 2005 5:07:41 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Hi,

Kroagnon <kroagnon@kroagnon.com> wrote:
#No, PCI Express cards are much more expensive than their AGP counterparts.
#I'm comparing stuff like the NVidia 6800GT 256MB with GDDR3. Look it up for
#yourself. This will probably change in the future but for now is not the
#reality.

Now compare 6600GT AGP prices (about $210) to 6600GT PCI-E prices (about
$180). Then compare ATi 9600 series AGP boards with X600-X700 boards, an
even larger price difference. This is the price range most people will
be buying in, hardly seems unfair to me, the lower cost PCI-E board
makes buying the motherboard easier.

#The bottom line is that you can't just ignore the installed base of AGP.
#Well you can, but you're going to lose business. I don't have a problem
#upgrading my PC because I derive so much entertainment value from it but I
#just upgraded my PC last April and I'll be damned if I'm going to upgrade it
#again just because Intel wants to push PCIE. I think you'll find this to be
#a common statement. So they will need another generation of AGP cards.

And we *have* the new generation of AGP cards, they were just introduced
over the past few months by both NVIDIA and ATi. Or, did you mean yet
another generation of AGP, introduced in a year or two? Don't hold your
breath.

Ken.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mail: kmarsh at charm dot net | Just say "no" to liars SCO and Soyo
WWW: http://www.charm.net/~kmarsh | Return services to local CIS offices!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anonymous
March 4, 2005 6:42:06 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"turk" <turk96@comcast.net> looked up from reading the entrails of the
porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>"Kroagnon" <kroagnon@kroagnon.com> wrote in message
>news:1126e9j4deduq95@news.supernews.com...
<snip>
>>> system. Pretty soon, AGP video cards will be rarer and much more
>>
>> The transition from AGP to PCIX is terrible. There IS no transition, and
>> those that have both are hack boards. You can't just take AGP slots off
>> the
>> boards overnight like they are trying to do.
>
>You mean there is no transition as in PCIE now exists? Yeah, I guess, there
>is no hybrid AGP/PCIE motherboard that takes both that I know of. And if
>there is a motherboard that does, it seems kind of stupid to me. Remember
>PCI graphics cards? AGP didn't exactly tip-toe in the door. Not many
>people bought an AGP motherboard with intentions to put a PCI video card in
>it.

Everyone who was upgrading their system but couldn't afford a new video
card at the same time did.

When I built a Duron system, my Voodoo3 was still good enough to run
everything currently out.
The increase in system speed more than offset any slowness of the
slightly aged video.
Morrowind was the first game I ran into that just plain would not work
without a 32bit color card.

Xocyll
--
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
Anonymous
March 5, 2005 11:04:07 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

754 mobo's have hypertransport too. It's just the interface between CPU and
memory.
939 boards have more features like dual channel memory and PCI-Express.
Probably worth the extra dough.
"Jonah Falcon" <jonahnynla@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:_ldUd.8203$Ba3.6553@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> What's the difference between the Athlon 754-pin and 939-pin CPUs (ie.
> architecture)? I just ordered a computer and spent extra for a 939-pin
> motherboard to have "Hyper Transport Technology".
>
> Jonah Falcon
>
>
!