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Bass issues on stage -- advice?

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August 14, 2004 6:58:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Hey folks -

We've got a stage situation where a couple of the players have
different hearing tolerances. The bass player is playing at a certain
loudness level, and the keyboardist can't take it. He's pretty much
the only one with the issue. The guitarist, pianist, and drummer
don't care. The keyboardist doesn't quite know what to do. It's the
bass-player's monitor that is too loud for the him, who is somewhat on
the other end of the stage. It's the only monitor that is the problem
for him. The keyboardist says the bass is louder than pretty much
every other instrument. It's actually hurting his right ear quite a
bit. He's walked around the rest of the stage and still feels the
same way. He has had his hearing checked and doesn't have any notable
response problems. There have been few times where it hasn't been
that much of a problem, but this is a rare occurrence.

The bass is not compressed. Can this be the issue? All the
monitoring on stage is from floor wedges. He's using one of the floor
wedges with a sansamp D/I box. He may be open to using an in-ear
monitor; this would presumably solve the problem, but he's concerned
that it may be a little "confining." Is anyone else using an in-ear
monitor for bass w/ success?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

RB
Anonymous
a b C Monitor
August 15, 2004 5:15:57 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

For this kind of situation in bass monitoring, check out the "buttkicker"
(platform version) from Guitammer. The bass player will feel the bass up
through his/her legs, not just hear it, so a much lower volume level works out
fine.

-lee-
Anonymous
a b C Monitor
August 15, 2004 11:46:23 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <6d7ed6d6.0408141358.3b6fe4b0@posting.google.com> rbaulbin@hotmail.com writes:

> We've got a stage situation where a couple of the players have
> different hearing tolerances. The bass player is playing at a certain
> loudness level, and the keyboardist can't take it. He's pretty much
> the only one with the issue. The guitarist, pianist, and drummer
> don't care. The keyboardist doesn't quite know what to do.

Sounds like the band needs either another bassist or keyboardist. If
you really like the keyboardist, give him a set of high-isolation
headphones.

But how about the audience? Is the bass too loud out there? Or does
everything else have to be too loud to keep balanced with the bass? If
the bass player is a problem to the rest of the world, he either has
to turn down or ship out.

> The bass is not compressed. Can this be the issue? All the
> monitoring on stage is from floor wedges. He's using one of the floor
> wedges with a sansamp D/I box.

Who he? The bass player? He's not using an amp? Then why not just turn
the bass down in the monitor mix and tell him to live with it? Or give
the keyboardist a different monitor mix in his wedge that doesn't have
any bass in it?

It sounds like you have a personnel problem more than a technical
problem.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
Related resources
Anonymous
a b C Monitor
August 16, 2004 1:28:26 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

>In article <6d7ed6d6.0408141358.3b6fe4b0@posting.google.com>
>rbaulbin@hotmail.com writes:
>
>> We've got a stage situation where a couple of the players have
>> different hearing tolerances. The bass player is playing at a certain
>> loudness level, and the keyboardist can't take it. He's pretty much
>> the only one with the issue. The guitarist, pianist, and drummer
>> don't care. The keyboardist doesn't quite know what to do.
>> The bass is not compressed. Can this be the issue? All the
>> monitoring on stage is from floor wedges. He's using one of the floor
>> wedges with a sansamp D/I box.

Did you try a small speaker on a mic stand like a Hot Spot? I was a singing
drummer (lone singer) in a power trio in my younger days, both my guitar player
and basest played wide open! We had an extremely high stage level! First we had
picked up some beefy floor wedges with one side of a QSC 1500 power amp (750
watts) pushing all three monitors. But I couldn't hear myself sing so, I went
out and got (very cheaply) a small monitor for myself and set it up on a chair
or whatever I could fine at the time so it was right behind my head. It had two
lite duty 8" full range's and one built loaded tweeter, I used a Sure SM14
headset so I could only turn my head so much before it would feedback (this was
before I realized that EQ can help stop feedback). I had never use a Hot Spot
system at that time and had no cash to invest in one at that time but I now
have two 5" raw Hot Spot drivers (got them from Parts Express.com) and stuck
them in the woofer's hole's of a set of $17.00 speakers I got at Circuit City.
August 17, 2004 7:39:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

mrivers@d-and-d.com (Mike Rivers) wrote in message news:<znr1092530286k@trad>...
> In article <6d7ed6d6.0408141358.3b6fe4b0@posting.google.com> rbaulbin@hotmail.com writes:
>
> > We've got a stage situation where a couple of the players have
> > different hearing tolerances. The bass player is playing at a certain
> > loudness level, and the keyboardist can't take it. He's pretty much
> > the only one with the issue. The guitarist, pianist, and drummer
> > don't care. The keyboardist doesn't quite know what to do.
>
> Sounds like the band needs either another bassist or keyboardist. If
> you really like the keyboardist, give him a set of high-isolation
> headphones.


Either really isn't an option. The keyboardist has tried Sennheiser
high isolation headphones, and they don't block the bass frequencies
enough.



> But how about the audience? Is the bass too loud out there? Or does
> everything else have to be too loud to keep balanced with the bass? If
> the bass player is a problem to the rest of the world, he either has
> to turn down or ship out.


The audience doesn't seem to have a problem. This is in a fixed venue
too, so same people all the time.

> > The bass is not compressed. Can this be the issue? All the
> > monitoring on stage is from floor wedges. He's using one of the floor
> > wedges with a sansamp D/I box.
>
> Who he? The bass player? He's not using an amp? Then why not just turn
> the bass down in the monitor mix and tell him to live with it? Or give
> the keyboardist a different monitor mix in his wedge that doesn't have
> any bass in it?
>
> It sounds like you have a personnel problem more than a technical
> problem.

It would seem that way, but he can't really live with it lower for
some reason. It's lower one week, the next week it's up. The tone
changes on the bass too, which means louder bass frequencies at times.
The keyboardist is using 2 small stereo speakers for his mix.
August 17, 2004 7:40:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

mrivers@d-and-d.com (Mike Rivers) wrote in message news:<znr1092530286k@trad>...
> In article <6d7ed6d6.0408141358.3b6fe4b0@posting.google.com> rbaulbin@hotmail.com writes:
>
> > We've got a stage situation where a couple of the players have
> > different hearing tolerances. The bass player is playing at a certain
> > loudness level, and the keyboardist can't take it. He's pretty much
> > the only one with the issue. The guitarist, pianist, and drummer
> > don't care. The keyboardist doesn't quite know what to do.
>
> Sounds like the band needs either another bassist or keyboardist. If
> you really like the keyboardist, give him a set of high-isolation
> headphones.


Either really isn't an option. The keyboardist has tried Sennheiser
high isolation headphones, and they don't block the bass frequencies
enough.



> But how about the audience? Is the bass too loud out there? Or does
> everything else have to be too loud to keep balanced with the bass? If
> the bass player is a problem to the rest of the world, he either has
> to turn down or ship out.


The audience doesn't seem to have a problem. This is in a fixed venue
too, so same people all the time.

> > The bass is not compressed. Can this be the issue? All the
> > monitoring on stage is from floor wedges. He's using one of the floor
> > wedges with a sansamp D/I box.
>
> Who he? The bass player? He's not using an amp? Then why not just turn
> the bass down in the monitor mix and tell him to live with it? Or give
> the keyboardist a different monitor mix in his wedge that doesn't have
> any bass in it?
>
> It sounds like you have a personnel problem more than a technical
> problem.

It would seem that way, but he can't really live with it lower for
some reason. It's lower one week, the next week it's up. The tone
changes on the bass too, which means louder bass frequencies at times.
The keyboardist is using 2 small stereo speakers for his mix.
August 17, 2004 7:41:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

mrivers@d-and-d.com (Mike Rivers) wrote in message news:<znr1092530286k@trad>...
> In article <6d7ed6d6.0408141358.3b6fe4b0@posting.google.com> rbaulbin@hotmail.com writes:
>
> > We've got a stage situation where a couple of the players have
> > different hearing tolerances. The bass player is playing at a certain
> > loudness level, and the keyboardist can't take it. He's pretty much
> > the only one with the issue. The guitarist, pianist, and drummer
> > don't care. The keyboardist doesn't quite know what to do.
>
> Sounds like the band needs either another bassist or keyboardist. If
> you really like the keyboardist, give him a set of high-isolation
> headphones.


Either really isn't an option. The keyboardist has tried Sennheiser
high isolation headphones, and they don't block the bass frequencies
enough.



> But how about the audience? Is the bass too loud out there? Or does
> everything else have to be too loud to keep balanced with the bass? If
> the bass player is a problem to the rest of the world, he either has
> to turn down or ship out.


The audience doesn't seem to have a problem. This is in a fixed venue
too, so same people all the time.

> > The bass is not compressed. Can this be the issue? All the
> > monitoring on stage is from floor wedges. He's using one of the floor
> > wedges with a sansamp D/I box.
>
> Who he? The bass player? He's not using an amp? Then why not just turn
> the bass down in the monitor mix and tell him to live with it? Or give
> the keyboardist a different monitor mix in his wedge that doesn't have
> any bass in it?
>
> It sounds like you have a personnel problem more than a technical
> problem.

It would seem that way, but he can't really live with it lower for
some reason. It's lower one week, the next week it's up. The tone
changes on the bass too, which means louder bass frequencies at times.
The keyboardist is using 2 small stereo speakers for his mix.
August 17, 2004 7:41:08 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

mrivers@d-and-d.com (Mike Rivers) wrote in message news:<znr1092530286k@trad>...
> In article <6d7ed6d6.0408141358.3b6fe4b0@posting.google.com> rbaulbin@hotmail.com writes:
>
> > We've got a stage situation where a couple of the players have
> > different hearing tolerances. The bass player is playing at a certain
> > loudness level, and the keyboardist can't take it. He's pretty much
> > the only one with the issue. The guitarist, pianist, and drummer
> > don't care. The keyboardist doesn't quite know what to do.
>
> Sounds like the band needs either another bassist or keyboardist. If
> you really like the keyboardist, give him a set of high-isolation
> headphones.


Either really isn't an option. The keyboardist has tried Sennheiser
high isolation headphones, and they don't block the bass frequencies
enough.



> But how about the audience? Is the bass too loud out there? Or does
> everything else have to be too loud to keep balanced with the bass? If
> the bass player is a problem to the rest of the world, he either has
> to turn down or ship out.


The audience doesn't seem to have a problem. This is in a fixed venue
too, so same people all the time.

> > The bass is not compressed. Can this be the issue? All the
> > monitoring on stage is from floor wedges. He's using one of the floor
> > wedges with a sansamp D/I box.
>
> Who he? The bass player? He's not using an amp? Then why not just turn
> the bass down in the monitor mix and tell him to live with it? Or give
> the keyboardist a different monitor mix in his wedge that doesn't have
> any bass in it?
>
> It sounds like you have a personnel problem more than a technical
> problem.

It would seem that way, but he can't really live with it lower for
some reason. It's lower one week, the next week it's up. The tone
changes on the bass too, which means louder bass frequencies at times.
The keyboardist is using 2 small stereo speakers for his mix.
August 17, 2004 8:03:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

mrivers@d-and-d.com (Mike Rivers) wrote in message news:<znr1092530286k@trad>...
> In article <6d7ed6d6.0408141358.3b6fe4b0@posting.google.com> rbaulbin@hotmail.com writes:
>
> > We've got a stage situation where a couple of the players have
> > different hearing tolerances. The bass player is playing at a certain
> > loudness level, and the keyboardist can't take it. He's pretty much
> > the only one with the issue. The guitarist, pianist, and drummer
> > don't care. The keyboardist doesn't quite know what to do.
>
> Sounds like the band needs either another bassist or keyboardist. If
> you really like the keyboardist, give him a set of high-isolation
> headphones.


Either really isn't an option. The keyboardist has tried Sennheiser
high isolation headphones, and they don't block the bass frequencies
enough.



> But how about the audience? Is the bass too loud out there? Or does
> everything else have to be too loud to keep balanced with the bass? If
> the bass player is a problem to the rest of the world, he either has
> to turn down or ship out.


The audience doesn't seem to have a problem. This is in a fixed venue
too, so same people all the time.

> > The bass is not compressed. Can this be the issue? All the
> > monitoring on stage is from floor wedges. He's using one of the floor
> > wedges with a sansamp D/I box.
>
> Who he? The bass player? He's not using an amp? Then why not just turn
> the bass down in the monitor mix and tell him to live with it? Or give
> the keyboardist a different monitor mix in his wedge that doesn't have
> any bass in it?
>
> It sounds like you have a personnel problem more than a technical
> problem.

It would seem that way, but he can't really live with it lower for
some reason. It's lower one week, the next week it's up. The tone
changes on the bass too, which means louder bass frequencies at times.
The keyboardist is using 2 small stereo speakers for his mix.
Anonymous
a b C Monitor
August 17, 2004 10:39:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

rbaulbin@hotmail.com (RB) wrote in message news:<6d7ed6d6.0408141358.3b6fe4b0@posting.google.com>...
> Hey folks -
>
> We've got a stage situation where a couple of the players have
> different hearing tolerances. The bass player is playing at a certain
> loudness level, and the keyboardist can't take it.

I play bass in a band and I also play guitar. Your bass player is
hosed up!
Most bass players I've worked around don't have clue how to set up
their live rig for different rooms. One solution is to have the bass
player point the speaker cabinet directly at his head. Also, tell him
to turn it down so the other players can work in the same space. If
that doesn't work, get a new player. Kinda harsh, but I've been down
this road. ;>( Ain't no fun to get blown away by the bass.

DaveT
August 18, 2004 12:13:38 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

RB wrote:

> Hey folks -
>
> We've got a stage situation where a couple of the players have
> different hearing tolerances. The bass player is playing at a certain
> loudness level, and the keyboardist can't take it. He's pretty much
> the only one with the issue. The guitarist, pianist, and drummer
> don't care. The keyboardist doesn't quite know what to do. It's the
> bass-player's monitor that is too loud for the him, who is somewhat on
> the other end of the stage. It's the only monitor that is the problem
> for him. The keyboardist says the bass is louder than pretty much
> every other instrument. It's actually hurting his right ear quite a
> bit. He's walked around the rest of the stage and still feels the
> same way. He has had his hearing checked and doesn't have any notable
> response problems. There have been few times where it hasn't been
> that much of a problem, but this is a rare occurrence.
>
> The bass is not compressed. Can this be the issue? All the
> monitoring on stage is from floor wedges. He's using one of the floor
> wedges with a sansamp D/I box. He may be open to using an in-ear
> monitor; this would presumably solve the problem, but he's concerned
> that it may be a little "confining." Is anyone else using an in-ear
> monitor for bass w/ success?
>
> Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
>
> RB

How about getting the bass player a real amp & getting the bass out of the
floor wedges? Low frequencies behave more or less omnidirectionally in a
reasonably sized room, so everyone onstage should still be able to hear
him, but he won;t be as loud on the opposite side of the stage (where the
keybord player lives). As a rule of thumb, I start with vocals only in the
floor monitors & only add instruments if absolutely necessary. Sometines
it is absolutely necessary, but most of the time it isn't.
August 18, 2004 6:08:48 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <6881d731.0408171739.5316da18@posting.google.com>,
dthomas@continet.com (Deaf Mellon MESA) wrote:

> rbaulbin@hotmail.com (RB) wrote in message
> news:<6d7ed6d6.0408141358.3b6fe4b0@posting.google.com>...
> > Hey folks -
> >
> > We've got a stage situation where a couple of the players have
> > different hearing tolerances. The bass player is playing at a certain
> > loudness level, and the keyboardist can't take it.
>
> I play bass in a band and I also play guitar. Your bass player is
> hosed up!
> Most bass players I've worked around don't have clue how to set up
> their live rig for different rooms. One solution is to have the bass
> player point the speaker cabinet directly at his head. Also, tell him
> to turn it down so the other players can work in the same space. If
> that doesn't work, get a new player. Kinda harsh, but I've been down
> this road. ;>( Ain't no fun to get blown away by the bass.
>
> DaveT

the bass bleeds into ever open mic and creats a muddy mess
get him a basspod a throne shaker (attached to a rubber isolated 3/4
baltic birtch platform for him to stand on) and a in ear rig
George
Anonymous
a b C Monitor
August 18, 2004 11:07:03 AM

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <6d7ed6d6.0408171439.18a96654@posting.google.com> rbaulbin@hotmail.com writes:

> Either really isn't an option. The keyboardist has tried Sennheiser
> high isolation headphones, and they don't block the bass frequencies
> enough.

Perhaps in-ear phones?

> The audience doesn't seem to have a problem. This is in a fixed venue
> too, so same people all the time.

Lemme guess. A church?

> he can't really live with it lower for
> some reason. It's lower one week, the next week it's up. The tone
> changes on the bass too, which means louder bass frequencies at times.

Sounds to me like the bass player needs to listen to himself a little
better, and get some coaching. There's no reason for his level and
tone to wander if it doesn't fit the music. And if it fits the music,
well, I dunno.

Did I recall that the bass player was going direct into the PA (without
an amplifier) and you were feeding the bass to him (and everyone else)
through the wedge monitors? Maybe it would work better if he had an
amplifier on stage, but then you'd have to make sure he kept it down to
a sensible level.

If you can set up more than one monitor mix, just take the bass out
of the speaker that's closest to the keyboard player.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
!