Black_Cat
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Most people think it's actually better. Not only that, they'll actually support the product with drivers and everything. If you payed $200 for a Soundblaster Live 5.1 Platinum a couple of years ago and wanted to upgrade your OS to WinXP, guess what. You can't. Creative has no drivers for it. Stay away from Creative like leprosy. They suck. Take it from me and everyone else out there. Get the TBSC or the Hercules Game Theater XP.
To start press any key. Where's the "any" key? --Homer Simpson.
To start press any key. Where's the "any" key? --Homer Simpson.
Black_Cat
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Check out this thread:
<A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=52383#52383" target="_new">http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=52383#52383</A>
To start press any key. Where's the "any" key? --Homer Simpson.
<A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=52383#52383" target="_new">http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=52383#52383</A>
To start press any key. Where's the "any" key? --Homer Simpson.
mattburklund
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I had the old sound blaster live on my xp, and I never had a problem from day one. I don't know what the big hatred for creative is in this forum, but I as a newbie have never had a problem with my live or audigy in Win ME or XP.
As far as the game theatre and santa cruz neither of these seem to have the input options or output options as the top of the line creative card, and the top of the line creative has a nice remote too! If input and output options are important to you then go with the creative if not, the others that are so loved here would work great for you. I remember reading about one guy who said something like: " I upgraded my sound card and speakers from creative to turtle beach and I am amazed at how much better the sound is with the turtle beach." I don't think anybody needs an explanation of how biased that statement is.
Keep in mind many people spend more time bragging on there card, than the have ever spent on researching there speakers. Some people spend $80+ on there sound card, but won't go over $60 for there speakers, this is not smart. The speakers are just as important as the sound card, if not more, and the tech change on speakers seems to be much slower than that of a card, so blow your money now on some nice speakers.
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by mattburklund on 07/27/02 03:49 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
As far as the game theatre and santa cruz neither of these seem to have the input options or output options as the top of the line creative card, and the top of the line creative has a nice remote too! If input and output options are important to you then go with the creative if not, the others that are so loved here would work great for you. I remember reading about one guy who said something like: " I upgraded my sound card and speakers from creative to turtle beach and I am amazed at how much better the sound is with the turtle beach." I don't think anybody needs an explanation of how biased that statement is.
Keep in mind many people spend more time bragging on there card, than the have ever spent on researching there speakers. Some people spend $80+ on there sound card, but won't go over $60 for there speakers, this is not smart. The speakers are just as important as the sound card, if not more, and the tech change on speakers seems to be much slower than that of a card, so blow your money now on some nice speakers.
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by mattburklund on 07/27/02 03:49 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
MisterMaya
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My take is that the sound card can make a huge difference, even if you assume you keep the same speakers and that they're no better than "low-end". People are pissed at Creative because they have some kind of incompatibility with the beloved Via motherboards, and more importantly because they killed the first real positional sound innovation because it was better than their technology, and in doing so turned a whole bunch of peoples' sound cards into paperweights and set the science of positional sound back four years, all because they wanted to have the most market share regardless of the quality of their product.
As far as Creative drivers, I know what people are talking about, because they recently stopped providing full downloads for any of their software, only updates - meaning that the only way to get your eax config panel, etc. (at least that I could find) is to install your win98 driver CD on your winXP computer, which results in something similar to duct taping a printed error message to the front of your monitor.
As far as sound card quality mattering, let's go back to SB Live! which is what you had to switch to if you had an Aureal 2.0 card and wanted to use anything but windows98 with an outdated directX, back when they killed it... The positional sound was very, very, markedly, hugely weak compared with the aureal technology. (I know there's at least one person on this forum who doesn't hear the positional effect, but come on, 19 out of 20 people can, so I don't expect any argument on this topic.) It didn't do well on occlusion, didn't do well with vertical placement, only did well with horizontal placement if you had 4 speakers, and relied almost entirely on the pathetic ability to add echo to stuff, which is one of the most annoying and abused special effects I have ever seen used in games. For more specific example, I could close my eyes in a game of half-life on the aureal 2.0 card, and could hear the accoustic difference between being in the center of the room and being in a corner of a room, could hear the difference between something being in front of me but obscured by a thin wall (fully occluded sound path), in front of me and behind a corner of a wall (indirect sound path), or in front of me with no wall (direct sound path), and it even carried those accoustic differences if those three situations happened in an enclosed room or out in a field or canyon. All the creative cards did at that time was load new echo settings into their dsp when the character passed through a polygon from one room to another. In short, the effects of a Creative Live! card could be duplicated by connecting an echo effects dsp box from your local performance music store between your soundcard and speakers, and having a little gnome adjust the knobs while you play your game.
Now, Creative has gotten better technology since then, but that's still very solid example of how a sound card can make a huge difference. <i>HOWEVER</i> I have to say something about the frequent reccommendation of some cards here... I've been fighting with my new game theater XP for a week now, cannot get any reasonable amount of help from Hercules, cannot get onto the Hercules forums because their registration system is broken, their knowledge base seems to be outright wrong in its solution to my problem, and they have no 800 number to call, you have to pay for long distance. On top of that, the Hercules knowledge base states that their system has some rather strange limitations involving the digital inputs:
<A HREF="http://us.hercules.com/support/readtechnote.php3?id=702&prodid=17&c=1&p=0" target="_new">Oh, you wanted working inputs?</A>
<A HREF="http://us.hercules.com/support/readtechnote.php3?id=721&prodid=17&c=1&p=0" target="_new">equalizer? what equalizer?</A>
Furthermore, it doesn't seem to have the ability (as Creative cards do) to mix "normal stereo" sources into the full 3D sound field, a.k.a. playing a line-input or analog CD audio cable using your full set of speakers, instead of just the front 2.
<A HREF="http://us.hercules.com/support/readtechnote.php3?id=706&prodid=17&c=1&p=0" target="_new">Look Here.</A>
With all these problems I'm having, and the limitations they talk about on the knowledge base, I'm wondering if I shouldn't go look for a Creative Audigy or Extigy. Got some shopping to do, no matter what, because if my problem isn't solved by thursday I have to take the gtxp back regardless or I won't be able to get a refund.
-- Monkeys? What does this .sig have to do with monkeys? --
As far as Creative drivers, I know what people are talking about, because they recently stopped providing full downloads for any of their software, only updates - meaning that the only way to get your eax config panel, etc. (at least that I could find) is to install your win98 driver CD on your winXP computer, which results in something similar to duct taping a printed error message to the front of your monitor.
As far as sound card quality mattering, let's go back to SB Live! which is what you had to switch to if you had an Aureal 2.0 card and wanted to use anything but windows98 with an outdated directX, back when they killed it... The positional sound was very, very, markedly, hugely weak compared with the aureal technology. (I know there's at least one person on this forum who doesn't hear the positional effect, but come on, 19 out of 20 people can, so I don't expect any argument on this topic.) It didn't do well on occlusion, didn't do well with vertical placement, only did well with horizontal placement if you had 4 speakers, and relied almost entirely on the pathetic ability to add echo to stuff, which is one of the most annoying and abused special effects I have ever seen used in games. For more specific example, I could close my eyes in a game of half-life on the aureal 2.0 card, and could hear the accoustic difference between being in the center of the room and being in a corner of a room, could hear the difference between something being in front of me but obscured by a thin wall (fully occluded sound path), in front of me and behind a corner of a wall (indirect sound path), or in front of me with no wall (direct sound path), and it even carried those accoustic differences if those three situations happened in an enclosed room or out in a field or canyon. All the creative cards did at that time was load new echo settings into their dsp when the character passed through a polygon from one room to another. In short, the effects of a Creative Live! card could be duplicated by connecting an echo effects dsp box from your local performance music store between your soundcard and speakers, and having a little gnome adjust the knobs while you play your game.
Now, Creative has gotten better technology since then, but that's still very solid example of how a sound card can make a huge difference. <i>HOWEVER</i> I have to say something about the frequent reccommendation of some cards here... I've been fighting with my new game theater XP for a week now, cannot get any reasonable amount of help from Hercules, cannot get onto the Hercules forums because their registration system is broken, their knowledge base seems to be outright wrong in its solution to my problem, and they have no 800 number to call, you have to pay for long distance. On top of that, the Hercules knowledge base states that their system has some rather strange limitations involving the digital inputs:
<A HREF="http://us.hercules.com/support/readtechnote.php3?id=702&prodid=17&c=1&p=0" target="_new">Oh, you wanted working inputs?</A>
<A HREF="http://us.hercules.com/support/readtechnote.php3?id=721&prodid=17&c=1&p=0" target="_new">equalizer? what equalizer?</A>
Furthermore, it doesn't seem to have the ability (as Creative cards do) to mix "normal stereo" sources into the full 3D sound field, a.k.a. playing a line-input or analog CD audio cable using your full set of speakers, instead of just the front 2.
<A HREF="http://us.hercules.com/support/readtechnote.php3?id=706&prodid=17&c=1&p=0" target="_new">Look Here.</A>
With all these problems I'm having, and the limitations they talk about on the knowledge base, I'm wondering if I shouldn't go look for a Creative Audigy or Extigy. Got some shopping to do, no matter what, because if my problem isn't solved by thursday I have to take the gtxp back regardless or I won't be able to get a refund.
-- Monkeys? What does this .sig have to do with monkeys? --
mattburklund
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Good respoonse. Yes I agree that the sound card does make a difference, but I think the speakers can be just as important. Thanks for the update on why creative is hated.
I think the product they offer now is good, I know it can be better but as you mentioned it could be better with the Game Theatre also. You would think that somebody would step up within the near future and hit a home run with a sound rich and Feature rich card.
Would you say that the hatred for creative is simular to some peoples hatred for Rambus? In that they both seem to be hated for there past? (wheather becuase of business practice or poor product) and not for the product they currently offer.
As far as custormer service, it seems that most companys lack in that area.
Do you have any clue on any "New" sound products coming out?
I think the product they offer now is good, I know it can be better but as you mentioned it could be better with the Game Theatre also. You would think that somebody would step up within the near future and hit a home run with a sound rich and Feature rich card.
Would you say that the hatred for creative is simular to some peoples hatred for Rambus? In that they both seem to be hated for there past? (wheather becuase of business practice or poor product) and not for the product they currently offer.
As far as custormer service, it seems that most companys lack in that area.
Do you have any clue on any "New" sound products coming out?
Well spoken. However, I'm shopping also for a decent sound card that will make do for at least 2 -3 years. I considered Creative but I didn't want to spend the money and be disatisfied. So, thanks for clearing the air on that issue, and as well for the support that Hercules provides.
Ok, how about the Voyetra Turtle Beach sound card in comparison to the Creative card?
<font color=purple><b>An average human brain weights aprox. 3lbs., but a thought weights a load.</font color=purple></b>
Ok, how about the Voyetra Turtle Beach sound card in comparison to the Creative card?
<font color=purple><b>An average human brain weights aprox. 3lbs., but a thought weights a load.</font color=purple></b>
MisterMaya
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Well, back when I bought my Diamond mx300, it ended up being less than a year before it was unusable. lol, tho, where'd you find an isa sound card? I bet you can play some of those old skool games like ultima underworld on that... yeah, I'm a big oldie-fan.
Later dudes, gotta catch austin powers 2
must... remove... self... from... computer...
-- Monkeys? What does this .sig have to do with monkeys? --
Later dudes, gotta catch austin powers 2
must... remove... self... from... computer...
-- Monkeys? What does this .sig have to do with monkeys? --
The reason I'm shopping is at the moment I am still using my Diamond Monster MX-400, but there are no new drivers available. It still sounds great, but some games causes it to choke.
<font color=purple><b>An average human brain weights aprox. 3lbs., but a thought weights a load.</font color=purple></b>
<font color=purple><b>An average human brain weights aprox. 3lbs., but a thought weights a load.</font color=purple></b>
4Ryan6
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All I have to say on this subject is that I presently own both the SB Audigy Gamer and the Turtle Beach Santa Cruz. The TBSC is in my computer and the SB Audigy is in my file cabinet, TBSC is hands down a better soundcard, but unless you've actually compared the two for yourself, you're just blowing smoke.
MisterMaya
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I'd say yeah, it's a lot similar. Rambus released something that wasn't what they said it was going to be, and when the world found out they were full of crap they tried to use the courts to shove it down our throats and get rid of the competing technology; naturally that doesn't earn them brownie points with anybody but the OEM's. Same deal with Creative, except Creative was successful in their attack so there's nothing we can do now but hope they don't do it to all the other card makers. Personally, right now I'm wondering if they're consuming Hercules' resources, because Hercules seems to be looking a lot like Diamond was back then as far as driver releases and the maintenance of their site.
My problem is that the GTXP would be absolutely perfect for my needs, if it would just work. I'm on my third reinstall of XP, trying it this time with all nonessential hardware removed, using the drivers from the CD now that I have the "6.1" version. If this fails, I'll resort for springing for long distance for tech support. Reason I want it to work so bad is that it has 1/4" microphone and headphone jacks, automatically switches from "n-channel speaker" mode to headphone mode when you plug in the headphones, has separate RCA plugs for all the speakers which for me is an enormous bonus, has a convenient gameport to plug in to, and worst of all I can't simply get an Audigy with the drive tray thingy because my computer is a secondhand Gateway2000 and the P.O.S. only has two drive bays. Sigh. Hey, maybe I can dremel a hole in the case. Right where the gateway2000 logo is supposed to be. Little bit of welding... or maybe rivets... or maybe staples... or maybe hot glue... hell, at this point you might find me duct taping an Audigy drive to the side of my case.
Also, I can't switch back to win98 because my graphics software only functions in win2K and winXP, and for me using a dual boot with sound in only one OS just won't work.
so I repeat... has <i>anybody</i> gotten this to work in XP? anybody? please? *sob*
-- Monkeys? What does this .sig have to do with monkeys? --
My problem is that the GTXP would be absolutely perfect for my needs, if it would just work. I'm on my third reinstall of XP, trying it this time with all nonessential hardware removed, using the drivers from the CD now that I have the "6.1" version. If this fails, I'll resort for springing for long distance for tech support. Reason I want it to work so bad is that it has 1/4" microphone and headphone jacks, automatically switches from "n-channel speaker" mode to headphone mode when you plug in the headphones, has separate RCA plugs for all the speakers which for me is an enormous bonus, has a convenient gameport to plug in to, and worst of all I can't simply get an Audigy with the drive tray thingy because my computer is a secondhand Gateway2000 and the P.O.S. only has two drive bays. Sigh. Hey, maybe I can dremel a hole in the case. Right where the gateway2000 logo is supposed to be. Little bit of welding... or maybe rivets... or maybe staples... or maybe hot glue... hell, at this point you might find me duct taping an Audigy drive to the side of my case.
Also, I can't switch back to win98 because my graphics software only functions in win2K and winXP, and for me using a dual boot with sound in only one OS just won't work.
so I repeat... has <i>anybody</i> gotten this to work in XP? anybody? please? *sob*
-- Monkeys? What does this .sig have to do with monkeys? --
If you haven't got you GTXP working yet, I just went out and purchased and installed a <A HREF="http://www.turtlebeach.com/site/products/santacruz/producthome.asp" target="_new">Turtle Beach SC</A> and drivers load up flawlessly. The card sounds very nice and gives you configuration setup capabilities. I didn't get the OEM model because I was reading that this is for Dell PC's and Voyetra tech support does not provide support for the OEM cards. So, I went retail $79.95, but it's a keeper.
I dual boot W2k & Win98SE and both installed with no effort whatsoever. Here is my system:
Asus A7M266 w/512 MB Cosair PC2100 DDR SDR
Athlon 1.3GHz
Adaptec 2940 U2W SCSI Controller
2 ea. Seagate 18 Gig SCSI Cheetah HDD's
Plextor UltrPlex 40X CD ROM
ATI Radeon 64 DDR VIVO
400 watt Antec PSU
Linksys NIC
<font color=purple><b>An average human brain weights aprox. 3lbs., but a thought weights a load.</font color=purple></b>
I dual boot W2k & Win98SE and both installed with no effort whatsoever. Here is my system:
Asus A7M266 w/512 MB Cosair PC2100 DDR SDR
Athlon 1.3GHz
Adaptec 2940 U2W SCSI Controller
2 ea. Seagate 18 Gig SCSI Cheetah HDD's
Plextor UltrPlex 40X CD ROM
ATI Radeon 64 DDR VIVO
400 watt Antec PSU
Linksys NIC
<font color=purple><b>An average human brain weights aprox. 3lbs., but a thought weights a load.</font color=purple></b>
I started out with a SB Live 5.1 then an Audigy then went to a Herc GTXP and comparing the Audigy against the GTXP i'm definitely settled on the GTXP from my personal experience. I've had no technical difficulties with either the audigy or the GTXP (I did with the live but thats a non issue now). My reasons for picking the GTXP are that i feel from personal testing that it has in comparison to the audigy:
Better sound positioning
Better sound quality
Less harsh so it feels alot nicer on headphones
Far superior A3D support (for headphone gaming)
Less background static/noise at quiet parts in the music or between tracks
Better connection setup for less cost
Better setup for 4.1 speaker systems which i have, i think Audigy is a lil better for 5.1 though
PC runs smoother all around with the GTXP than the audigy
And lastly, there are no problems with hooking up external players to the GTXP box and playing cd's from an external source or whatever. I just got a mini-RCA L/R converter and plugged it in, hit play on my nice disman and whala i have amazing quality sound. Never had a problem with the drivers either except for the two known issues of Infinity engine games, which i don't play anymore, and Operation Flashpoint which works fine as long as you don't turn on eax. The game sounds great without eax though...
The itsy bitsy spider climbed up the empires state building, along came goblin, wiped the spider out<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by williamc on 07/29/02 10:20 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
Better sound positioning
Better sound quality
Less harsh so it feels alot nicer on headphones
Far superior A3D support (for headphone gaming)
Less background static/noise at quiet parts in the music or between tracks
Better connection setup for less cost
Better setup for 4.1 speaker systems which i have, i think Audigy is a lil better for 5.1 though
PC runs smoother all around with the GTXP than the audigy
And lastly, there are no problems with hooking up external players to the GTXP box and playing cd's from an external source or whatever. I just got a mini-RCA L/R converter and plugged it in, hit play on my nice disman and whala i have amazing quality sound. Never had a problem with the drivers either except for the two known issues of Infinity engine games, which i don't play anymore, and Operation Flashpoint which works fine as long as you don't turn on eax. The game sounds great without eax though...
The itsy bitsy spider climbed up the empires state building, along came goblin, wiped the spider out<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by williamc on 07/29/02 10:20 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
MisterMaya
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ok, so since lots of other people said they'd gotten it working fine in XP, I started a serious shot at getting it to work. I ripped everything out of my system except the GTXP and the hardware required to install and run windows, and a few hours later, turns out that the GTXP really hated this combo modem / phoneline network card that was in there. If that thing is present, the GTXP would just not function properly. Now that that thing's gone, the sound comes out of the proper speakers.
Now there's just one problem left to deal with - adjusting the sliders in Virtual Ear doesn't seem to do anything, either with headphones or with speakers. I normally hear positional sound just fine... so do those work ok for everyone else?
in any case, I'm really happy it's working!! I'm still considering switching to a santa cruz though, because of a bunch of little tiny things that kind of add up... Is the positional sound on the Turtle Beach any different than what you get on the GTXP?
-- Monkeys? What does this .sig have to do with monkeys? --
Now there's just one problem left to deal with - adjusting the sliders in Virtual Ear doesn't seem to do anything, either with headphones or with speakers. I normally hear positional sound just fine... so do those work ok for everyone else?
in any case, I'm really happy it's working!! I'm still considering switching to a santa cruz though, because of a bunch of little tiny things that kind of add up... Is the positional sound on the Turtle Beach any different than what you get on the GTXP?
-- Monkeys? What does this .sig have to do with monkeys? --
lemonlemon
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The only real difference you will notice with the GTXP or santa cruz compared with audigy is probably with headphones while listening to music...for games, its about preference, they are both good enough to pick up most sounds. For 5.1 movies and games, audigy has the advantage. And about the drivers, don't know about the rest, but for audigy xp drivers you might have to dl compaq's audigy oem set, (also delete CToem file in the setup or it won't run) but its like 376 something megs. My opinion is that if u don't want audigy for whatever reason, santa cruz or hercules will do u just as fine (i prefer santa cruz tho...).
I'm not quite sure what your saying here...
But, i can assure you all the difference i listed are quite real and not imagined. Yes, they're preferences as I said, i prefer the GTXP in each case. If someone else prefers the audigy thats fine with me...
If you have a nice 5.1 system that would be one good argument for getting an Audigy or perhaps one of each. I don't, i use a nice 4.1 system cause i dont use my pc for movies and for games and music 4.1 more than suffices. I also use headphones half of the time.
The itsy bitsy spider climbed up the empires state building, along came goblin, wiped the spider out
But, i can assure you all the difference i listed are quite real and not imagined. Yes, they're preferences as I said, i prefer the GTXP in each case. If someone else prefers the audigy thats fine with me...
If you have a nice 5.1 system that would be one good argument for getting an Audigy or perhaps one of each. I don't, i use a nice 4.1 system cause i dont use my pc for movies and for games and music 4.1 more than suffices. I also use headphones half of the time.
The itsy bitsy spider climbed up the empires state building, along came goblin, wiped the spider out
On this thread, I'm with Blacky.
"Stay away from Creative like leprosy. They suck"
I will take this one step further...Creative sucks three different holes; sideways.
I have a SB live value, and if I knew then, what I know now, I would have a Fortissimo 2 or an Acoustic Edge.
It's just time for Creative to die...
"Stay away from Creative like leprosy. They suck"
I will take this one step further...Creative sucks three different holes; sideways.
I have a SB live value, and if I knew then, what I know now, I would have a Fortissimo 2 or an Acoustic Edge.
It's just time for Creative to die...
All of the information presented here is good, but I think people are moving more towards their own personal experience (most cases bad) and away from the intentions of the post. While bad experiences are nice to hear, I am curious if anyone has anything to say about the turtle beach itself.
-sound quality. Clear?
-features. most people would buy an audigy/extigy for features, but its still important
-compatibility. driver updates for all OS?
I have previously owned a SBLive!Value, and it was a great card, no problems at all. I gave it away with my new system because I decided to give onboard sound a try since I don't use 5.1 because I have high performance system in my living room. All i need a new card to do is not give me problems in games like my onboard realtek one has given me. mostly missing sounds and odd "scratching sounds" at random points in games. I've updated drivers, but am looking to return to the aftermarket soundcard arena.
Besides personal problems, are there any published reasons to get say a SB live over a TBSC?
"oh, i forgot"
-sound quality. Clear?
-features. most people would buy an audigy/extigy for features, but its still important
-compatibility. driver updates for all OS?
I have previously owned a SBLive!Value, and it was a great card, no problems at all. I gave it away with my new system because I decided to give onboard sound a try since I don't use 5.1 because I have high performance system in my living room. All i need a new card to do is not give me problems in games like my onboard realtek one has given me. mostly missing sounds and odd "scratching sounds" at random points in games. I've updated drivers, but am looking to return to the aftermarket soundcard arena.
Besides personal problems, are there any published reasons to get say a SB live over a TBSC?
"oh, i forgot"
MisterMaya
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I wish we could trust reviews and product information more, but the companies take every opportunity to bend the truth to their perspective, so personal experience is what we've got. My personal experience with the GTXP for example should tell people that if you use a modem with a wave device or a combination modem/phoneline network card, then you might have compatibility problems with the GTXP. It's up to you to get from my personal experience what you need to know.
That said, it sounds like you really don't desire much in a sound card, pretty much any of them would suit your needs long as they don't crash... so if you have a VIA chipset, step towards a turtle beach santa cruz, if you don't have a via chipset, then audigy might be better since Creative will probably gain the most API support for games now and in the near future. (also Creative seems to have a nasty habit of torpedoing competition when it becomes competitive, so I silently fear for the "new guys".)
All of them will be clear, good sound quality. Audigy has the most features, and as of right now Audigy, Santa Cruz, and GTXP all have working winXP drivers.
Cheers
-- Monkeys? What does this .sig have to do with monkeys? --
That said, it sounds like you really don't desire much in a sound card, pretty much any of them would suit your needs long as they don't crash... so if you have a VIA chipset, step towards a turtle beach santa cruz, if you don't have a via chipset, then audigy might be better since Creative will probably gain the most API support for games now and in the near future. (also Creative seems to have a nasty habit of torpedoing competition when it becomes competitive, so I silently fear for the "new guys".)
All of them will be clear, good sound quality. Audigy has the most features, and as of right now Audigy, Santa Cruz, and GTXP all have working winXP drivers.
Audigy has soundfonts, if you use those. Depending what audigy you buy, you have a good chance of getting software that you will find useful, for example at least the Platinum version contains a multitrack recording software, I think... (this is from looking at the box, I couldn't really tell if they were saying multi-track recording capability or multi-track recording software...)
Cheers
-- Monkeys? What does this .sig have to do with monkeys? --
No. In fact i don't know ANYONE who would argue in favor of a live over the Santa Cruz... If you mean the audigy it just comes down to preference. I recommend you find a way to try em both if your serious about good audio.
About personal problems? You mean personal opinions, biases, and favorites? There really arent that many problems with any of the top 3 except the creative/via problem. All the problems i've seen other than that involve extremely non-standard setups. If your anything close to a standard computer setup I don't see any problems arising with any of the cards. Non-standard setups alawys cause problems if your not extremely careful and knowledgeable. Such is the nature of computers.
Personal experiences such are your thinking of strike as people who've had a bad experience in getting a sound card to work...well, its always good and informative to know specific things that don't work.
Personal testing and comparisons are the only the way to go with sound cards. Since everyone's ears are different to some extent you should try the cards yourself if your serious about audio. I've seen reviews praise a set of speakers for example and give them a 10 one month, then the next month give a different set a 10 and say how much better they were than the one they tested last month. It really comes to down personal comparisons in audio testing more than anything else cause its so subjective.
You mentioned a few questions you had about the quality of the TBSC specifically. My answer would be to run a search on mine and FatBurgers posts on this sound forum of posts in the last two months. The GTXP and the TBSC are basically the same. They run off the same chipset and "sound engine" and are extremely similar in quality. The only REAL difference being the TBSC has all connections on the card and the GTXP has all connections on a breakout box.
Also, the GTXP comes with a FULL version of powerdvd perfect for that sound card which i've never seen another sound card come with, they all come with trial versions or demo (limited option) versions that don't support most sound cards fully.
Anyhow, buy a TBSC and an Audigy and try em both and return whichever one you decide you like the least.
The itsy bitsy spider climbed up the empires state building, along came goblin, wiped the spider out
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